Does horse shit belong to the owner of the horse?

[fastoyz]

If you came across a big horse turd on the road, if twas to scoop it up and place it carefully (or forcefully) on the horse owners car to take what belongs to them home, would it be the wrong thing to do?
Which leads me to, Does anyone no if its possible to ban horses from riding on the road? theres a group that have started using our road lately and the few leading off it as a horse arena, it is in the country, but the road although has some pretty bush, is 1 lane (2 cars is a squeeze) no side verge, and multiple blind corners, they dont even live on our road, but park all there floats and trucks at the bottom! (even worse the hunua poney club is less than 10mins away lol) and coming back to my 1st sentence the occasional turd on the road, hitting one of those on 2 wheels would put you in the shit (literally)
So, any ideas? i guess i could try the council and point out the danger aspect to try get my way, or the faster approach .... poos on cars??

[tigertim20]

well, dog owners are supposed to carry their dog's shit with them, but youd need a way bigger bag on a horse I guess.

Is this the biggest thing you have to worry about today? - you must have had a pretty good day!:yes:

[Woodman]

Pretty sure you can't ban horses from the road cos they are considered legal modes of transport or some such shit cos the laws of the road go back to when there were not cars and only horses. Well that what i heard anyway.

As for horse shit, its a pain in the ass, especially after a curry.:facepalm:

[Virago]

Can't be arsed finding the relevent legislation for you, but horses are still deemed to be legitimate road users. As far as I'm aware the riders can't be held liable for dung left on the road.

If it's a major problem at your location, by all means talk to the police and local council. But childish punitive action would likely cause you a few problems.

[scracha]

If you came across a big horse turd on the road, if twas to scoop it up and place it carefully (or forcefully) on the horse owners car to take what belongs to them home, would it be the wrong thing to do?

I'm guessing they're mostly ladies and that you're trying to assert your masculinity or some shit like that? They'll know where you live so good luck with that approach. Personally I know what I'd do if someone forcefully placed horse shit on my missus' car.



Which leads me to, Does anyone no if its possible to ban horses from riding on the road? theres a group that have started using our road lately and the few leading off it as a horse arena,

You're on a slippery slope there. Imagine if peeps started asking if it's possible to ban those noisy, speeding, crashing motorcycles from the road




they dont even live on our road

Trucks and cars pass my house all the time....and they're driven by people that don't even live on my road. Not that I've actually paid for the road.



hitting one of those on 2 wheels would put you in the shit (literally)
So, any ideas? i guess i could try the council and point out the danger aspect to try get my way, or the faster approach .... poos on cars??
Try throwing back McDonalds wrappers, cow shit, diesel, gravel, oil and all the other assorted stuff back to their respective owners on the PUBLIC highway. Further alienating motorcyclists isn't going to do anyone any good.


Aside from the above...there is NO DANGER ASPECT so the council will likely tell you to go forth and procreate:-

Horse shit is
a) Completely biodegradable,
b) Hardly smells - horses are herbivores
c) Has no health risks
d) Is mostly comprised of water. Has a bit of grass in it and isn't particularly slippery (unlike cow shit).
e) Makes excellent fertiliser if properly composed.


Of course I could be talking horse shit.

[LBD]

Logically....well my distorted logic at least says.......The horse owner must own the Horse poo because you see the horse owners selling Horse Poo in bags on the side of the road....and to sell shit they must own it first....IMO...

[unstuck]

If I have a problem with someone or somebodies actions, I try talking to the parties concerned. If that fails, I would talk to the local authorities. If that fails, thats when I usually get myself in the shit. Do these people know there is a problem? Once being made aware of the issue, they may just find somewhere else to play. Criminal or willful damage is probably not the way to go.:innocent:

[Deano]

Stuffing the shit up the car zorst would be funnier. Either the car wouldn't start or there'd be shit everywhere.

(Not that I'd do this of course)

[DEATH_INC.]

You're riding a RM and you're worried about a bit of horse shit?

[nzspokes]

c) Has no health risks


Apart from hitting it when you are laid hard into a corner and go flying off the road. :shit:

And the fact horse floats should be banned from the road, to damn slow.:facepalm:

[Road kill]

If you came across a big horse turd on the road, if twas to scoop it up and place it carefully (or forcefully) on the horse owners car to take what belongs to them home, would it be the wrong thing to do?
Which leads me to, Does anyone no if its possible to ban horses from riding on the road? theres a group that have started using our road lately and the few leading off it as a horse arena, it is in the country, but the road although has some pretty bush, is 1 lane (2 cars is a squeeze) no side verge, and multiple blind corners, they dont even live on our road, but park all there floats and trucks at the bottom! (even worse the hunua poney club is less than 10mins away lol) and coming back to my 1st sentence the occasional turd on the road, hitting one of those on 2 wheels would put you in the shit (literally)
So, any ideas? i guess i could try the council and point out the danger aspect to try get my way, or the faster approach .... poos on cars??

Your Road ??
Mate you stand a snowballs chance in hell with the local council.
A bike rider complaining about saftey issues would have them rolling in the isles.
Sorry but it usually works the other way round and the local horsey community are far larger and have far more reach than you "ever will",,,in fact when you go to the council,the people your going to be complaining to are very likely to be the very people your complaining about.
Poos on cars,,,been done before,,nobody really cares.:violin:

[oldrider]

"Would that God, the gift to give us, to see our selves, as others see us". :ride:

[sidecar bob]

You live in the country, rural stuff goes on in the country, if you feel the need to bleat about a bit of horse shit, then an apartment in the central city is probably more your thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmaF6IOODFc&feature=related

[scracha]

Apart from hitting it when you are laid hard into a corner and go flying off the road. :shit:

See above post about random shit on country road. Now add in wandering stock. Not a great idea going hard out on country roads.



And the fact horse floats should be banned from the road, to damn slow.:facepalm:
So should 250s :innocent:

[fastoyz]

Horse lovers unite! well ive clearly struck a nerve with the kiwibiker horse riding community, ive wondered about some people on here.. nice pants guys :yes:

247371


So if no one seems to think theres any danger from horses on a 1 lane,unverged, blind cornered road with a slalom course of poos, how about i lay the course for the next kiwibiker road ride? whos keen?
"scracha" seeing that horse poo is not slippery like cow poo and "has no danger aspect", ill look forward to you demonstrating tactics cornering while riding through it (and you dont have to be going"hard out" either any speed will do, the end result will still be the same)

btw, for the people sayingt hey are legal modes of transport, could i ride one down the motorway? theres no signs saying otherwise

[Virago]

Lol - so anyone who disagrees with you is horse lover...? :shutup:

The critique of horse riding apparel is rather silly. Next time you've got your bike gear on, take a look in the mirror...

No, you can't ride a horse on a motorway. You can't ride a bicycle either. Your point...?

But you're right. The best thing to to do is to sneakily throw dung at people's cars. That'll solve the issue, eh...?

[Kickaha]

So if no one seems to think theres any danger from horses on a 1 lane,unverged, blind cornered road with a slalom course of poos

Compared to the danger from other vehicles it hardly rates a mention

[fastoyz]

Lol - so anyone who disagrees with you is horse lover...? :shutup:

The critique of horse riding apparel is rather silly. Next time you've got your bike gear on, take a look in the mirror...

No, you can't ride a horse on a motorway. You can't ride a bicycle either. Your point...?

But you're right. The best thing to to do is to sneakily throw dung at people's cars. That'll solve the issue, eh...?

God lighten up people!

Tight white pants vs jeans?

Theres no signs stating so...

Yes because it would be funny.

[chanceyy]

hmm much of a hooopla bout nothing .. I ride bikes and horses, horse shit on the road has never been an issue for me.

if that road is so narrow & blind corners everywhere you will be riding your motorbike rather slowly and with caution aye ??

Horses have as much right to be on the road as pushbikes, motorbikes, cars, trucks etc but just remember when your passing said horses they do have minds of their own & can spook so pays to be very respectful and slow, even stopping if someone is having difficulty. cause in the eyes of the law the horses actually have right of way.

I am very fortunate my horses do not react to vehicles even ones who hoon past tooting their horn and I can not remember the last time my horses pooped on a ride. they normally wait til they are back at the paddock

But no drama have ridden my bike over horse poop and not a slide in sight .. unlike cow poop now that shit is dangerous :facepalm:

[ellipsis]

....shades of the kick the bicyclist to the OP....if they want to put themselves in danger then that is their prerogative...I ride a noisy hd on country roads...its usually highly polished and doesn't like being covered in horseshit...the only cure to that one would be to ride the urban tarmac and put up with a heap of that kind of bullshit..no thanks...it is always cool to see young people out in the open doing things other than hooning around with their mates in noisy cages or glued to a computer game...every time I pass a generous dollop of horse shit on the road I feel guilty for not having a plastic bag to take it home to my mrs, for her roses...buttoning off to a crawl on the bike is always rewarded with big smiles and waves from someones daughter or wife...they are doing their thing in a constantly more restrictive environment and should be applauded...I am not an equine person, far from it, but sometimes I wouldn't mind the world slowing down to a horses pace....now dog shit..thats another thing..

[unstuck]

Maybe you could spend a wee bit of time with a shovel and a couple of sacks and make yourself some coin for a bit of cruising money. Shits worth money after all, and theses nice people are dropping it at your doorstep so to speak.:yes:

[Virago]

God lighten up people!...

Hahahahaha...! You want US to lighten up...? :lol:

I think it would be funny to kick your bike over. Waddaya reckon?

[unstuck]

....shades of the kick the bicyclist to the OP....if they want to put themselves in danger then that is their prerogative...I ride a noisy hd on country roads...its usually highly polished and doesn't like being covered in horseshit...the only cure to that one would be to ride the urban tarmac and put up with a heap of that kind of bullshit..no thanks...it is always cool to see young people out in the open doing things other than hooning around with their mates in noisy cages or glued to a computer game...every time I pass a generous dollop of horse shit on the road I feel guilty for not having a plastic bag to take it home to my mrs, for her roses...buttoning off to a crawl on the bike is always rewarded with big smiles and waves from someones daughter or wife...they are doing their thing in a constantly more restrictive environment and should be applauded...I am not an equine person, far from it, but sometimes I wouldn't mind the world slowing down to a horses pace....now dog shit..thats another thing..

AMEN.:yes:

[Indiana_Jones]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3GRgoxWap-M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

-Indy

[awa355]

Horse shit is
a) Completely biodegradable,
b) Hardly smells - horses are herbivores
c) Has no health risks
d) Is mostly comprised of water. Has a bit of grass in it and isn't particularly slippery (unlike cow shit).
e) Makes excellent fertiliser if properly composed.


Of course I could be talking horse shit.

I've stood in both, ( cow & horse), there aint no difference.

But tell me, I drive a 100k's, pass over 4 metres of cow shit in a nanosecond,( cow crossing) and every bit of cow shit sticks to the car for the duration of the trip. Anything else would fall off. :shit::shit: WHY???

[Edbear]

"Would that God, the gift to give us, to see our selves, as others see us". :ride:

If we did we'd probably never speak to them again.... :shutup:

[ellipsis]

...I was told once that horse shit is one of the tetanus risk by-products of a good day in the garden...

[Big Dave]

See. Suzuki riders don't know shit.

[allycatz]

In the 'old' days when everyone had vegie gardens, horse poos was like gold....

[bogan]

I say neigh, it does not belong to them. The mane thing you need to do, is slow yourself down to a canter, so you don't foal on your ass. Hold you horses on the poo-slinging idea too, you wouldn't want them to get bridled up start a stampede (figuratively speaking).

And, why the long face anyway? there's far worse things that could happen, it's not like your horsists are the four horsemen now is it?

[FJRider]

btw, for the people sayingt hey are legal modes of transport, could i ride one down the motorway? theres no signs saying otherwise

No signs saying you cant ride scooters on the motorway either ... and if horses AND scooters could travel at 100 km/hr ... they would be allowed ...

Untill then ... :no:

[Jantar]

No signs saying you cant ride scooters on the motorway either ... and if horses AND scooters could travel at 100 km/hr ... they would be allowed ...

Untill then ... :no:

Scooters are allowed on the motorway. They are registered as motor vehicles, and therefore they are permitted. However because of the low speed they must remain as far left as practical, and must not cause an obstruction to other traffic.

Horses are not permitted on the motorway as they are not registered as motor vehicles.

[FJRider]

Scooters are allowed on the motorway. They are registered as motor vehicles, and therefore they are permitted. However because of the low speed they must remain as far left as practical, and must not cause an obstruction to other traffic.

Horses are not permitted on the motorway as they are not registered as motor vehicles.

MY WRONG CHOICE OF WORDING ... I can not recall any LAW that states ONLY REGISTERED VEHICLES are allowed on a motorway ... just it would be unsafe/impractial to do so with a mode of transport unable to travel at 100 km/hr ... and regardless of the position in the roadway you travel (extreme left or not) ... you would most likely get a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic ...

[Newbi]

Well I have to say, that has been a very entertaining read for me on this rainy Sunday afternoon. I am one of those people that ride horses on the road, and believe me we have far more to worry about out there than a bit of biodegradable shit on the road. I also have a Bike and am in the process of getting my licence, and I will have to drive through shit occasionally when I drive down my road, thanks to the dairy farm I have to go past, but I'm not about to start scraping up the cowshit and throwing it on the farmers car that's for dam sure, I have better things to do. Maybe YOU!! should find somewhere else to ride??:yes:

[James Deuce]

At least horses can stand up by themselves when there's no one sitting on them. I reckon you should ban motorbikes. They're really dangerous.

[Scuba_Steve]

Well I'm late to the party & it seems this thread has gone the way of Chinese whispers, But I'll chuck my voice in on the original question anyways.

I would say they are responsible for the horse shit, yes. Just the same as dog owners are responsible for the dogs shit and you are responsible for any glass, plastic, petrol or oil you may leave (if things went not so good) but it seems there is no specific law for most the country (think Tararua may have a bylaw now) so the best you could argue is littering maybee environmental health given that it does speed weeds & other possible risks but both would be long shots reliant on a judge whom probably rides or has a daughter who rides horses.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/2360661/Horses-cause-a-stink-on-the-roads

[sidecar bob]

Horse lovers unite! well ive clearly struck a nerve with the kiwibiker horse riding community, ive wondered about some people on here.. nice pants guys :yes:

247371


So if no one seems to think theres any danger from horses on a 1 lane,unverged, blind cornered road with a slalom course of poos, how about i lay the course for the next kiwibiker road ride? whos keen?
"scracha" seeing that horse poo is not slippery like cow poo and "has no danger aspect", ill look forward to you demonstrating tactics cornering while riding through it (and you dont have to be going"hard out" either any speed will do, the end result will still be the same)

btw, for the people sayingt hey are legal modes of transport, could i ride one down the motorway? theres no signs saying otherwise
Na, you havent struck a nerve, youre just bummed because youre a townie that decided to live in the country & cant believe that people have animals in the country, heaven forbid.
I spend most of my motorcycling free time pounding backroads such as you describe, much prefering to come across a hunk of horse shit rather than a highway patrol.
Not everyone on here is a smooth tarseal riding townie.

[imdying]

Portable air horn mate, horses hate them. Problem solved. Probably easy to find anywhere at the moment, I imagine all the rugby loving faggots use them at the games.

It's a free country, you can toot your horn anywhere ya like, and the horses will bolt, hopefully into traffic injuring the horse badly enough that it'll need to be shot, and if you're super lucky the wee lass on board will fall in front of a car.

[imdying]

Maybe you could spend a wee bit of time with a shovel and a couple of sacks and make yourself some coin for a bit of cruising money. Shits worth money after all, and theses nice people are dropping it at your doorstep so to speak.:yes:I always feel bad for people who make so little that something like this would be worth their time.

[unstuck]

I always feel bad for people who make so little that something like this would be worth their time.

Give it up dipshit, your making yourself look foolish,yet again. :yes:

[Blackshear]

Maybe YOU!! should find somewhere else to ride??:yes:

I've come across horse shit too many times to count while riding, and none of it was anywhere near the country. Try the North shore. On my driveway. Should I move house? There's a paddock up the road just for horses and they let them crap all over footpaths. Maybe the horses should use the paddock? :yes:

[Newbi]

Portable air horn mate, horses hate them. Problem solved. Probably easy to find anywhere at the moment, I imagine all the rugby loving faggots use them at the games.

It's a free country, you can toot your horn anywhere ya like, and the horses will bolt, hopefully into traffic injuring the horse badly enough that it'll need to be shot, and if you're super lucky the wee lass on board will fall in front of a car.

Real mature!, Fucktards like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the roads, on any mode of transport, at any time. Wishing harm on someone is lower than low. Crawl back to where you came from you little Bacterium.:angry:

[Latte]

Apart from hitting it when you are laid hard into a corner and go flying off the road. :shit:

And the fact horse floats should be banned from the road, to damn slow.:facepalm:

Lol, imagine what the horsey forums talk about in regards to noisy motorbikes scaring their horses, and riding like lunatics on the road. Probably need to ban them from the road.

[gijoe1313]

And somewhere in India, there is a forum going on about how elephant dung strewn on what passes for their roads is impacting the passage of two wheeled velocipedes!

"I was riding with my extended family on my Baja carrying the entire lunch contents for a skyscraper when I impacted on the fecal remains of a pachyderm! Much loss and grief, oh my goodness! Luckily I had some empty tea cans to collect remains of fecal remains for my onion garden! Goodness me!" :innocent:

[Big Dave]

However because of the low speed.


Depends on the vehicle. A lot of the high-end Italian Scooters are good for 140kph or better now. They handle pretty well too.

Vespa GT300 is quite comfortable in the fast lane.

[Jantar]

Depends on the vehicle. A lot of the high-end Italian Scooters are good for 140kph or better now. They handle pretty well too.

Vespa GT300 is quite comfortable in the fast lane.

Too true. I did think of that after I had posted, but realised FJR was referring to the low end moped type scooter. I know I've had much pleasure keeping up with a Burgman at relatively good speeds. :scooter:

It just further supports the idea that scooters are not illegal on the motorway. :)

[willytheekid]

:facepalm:

So the original poster rides a RM250 in jeans! and yet whines about horse shit being dangerous?

How about you keep your unregistered dirtbike off the public road!....YOUR! the one breaking the law and WE are the ones paying the F@#@$ ACC fee's to cover your "can't ride through shit" arse!

I live in an area with tons of horses and even more dirtbikes!...yet they all get along just fine.....why?.....respect for one another! (something the OP has clearly demonstrated a lack of!)

[Big Dave]

Too true. I did think of that after I had posted, but realised FJR was referring to the low end moped type scooter. I know I've had much pleasure keeping up with a Burgman at relatively good speeds. :scooter:

It just further supports the idea that scooters are not illegal on the motorway. :)

Yeah - I had a Gilera Nexus a while back and it required a bit of throttle discretion or the points tally would be rising.

And he's also right that there were some Chinese imports that they didn't want to sell in Wellywood for fear of the steepness of the hills.

[LBD]

Skid marks motorcyclists messy slide....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/5690493/Skid-marks-motorcyclists-messy-slide

[puddytat]

As a Horse rider I can assure you that the majority of folk towing floats are very aware that they sometimes hold people up, its only to obvious when you see idiots tailgating & doing dumb shit all the time. Its not the Horsefloats causing drama, its the fuckwits making stupid passing attempts in unbelievably stoopid situations.:facepalm:
And I can assure you that drivers towing floats will 9 times out of ten pull over or indicate so you can pass WHEN THEY THINK IT IS SAFE FOR THEM TO DO SO.
You just cant rumble over onto the road shoulder with a Tonne of horses on board.
Remember also that the limit for trailers is 9okm/h.

[fastoyz]

Well I'm late to the party & it seems this thread has gone the way of Chinese whispers, But I'll chuck my voice in on the original question anyways.

I would say they are responsible for the horse shit, yes. Just the same as dog owners are responsible for the dogs shit and you are responsible for any glass, plastic, petrol or oil you may leave (if things went not so good) but it seems there is no specific law for most the country (think Tararua may have a bylaw now) so the best you could argue is littering maybee environmental health given that it does speed weeds & other possible risks but both would be long shots reliant on a judge whom probably rides or has a daughter who rides horses.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/2360661/Horses-cause-a-stink-on-the-roads

interesting poll results right there... i guess the 68.8% of people who think its a disgusting mess dont pass through this forum...

[James Deuce]

interesting poll results right there... i guess the 68.8% of people who think its a disgusting mess dont pass through this forum...

You get shit on the road in the country. It's the law.

[fastoyz]

Na, you havent struck a nerve, youre just bummed because youre a townie that decided to live in the country & cant believe that people have animals in the country, heaven forbid.
I spend most of my motorcycling free time pounding backroads such as you describe, much prefering to come across a hunk of horse shit rather than a highway patrol.
Not everyone on here is a smooth tarseal riding townie.

funny that i was born and raised in the country, still travel there 5 days a week and plan on living there again one day. I have no problem with shit in general, cow shit pretty much lives on my truck and provides a good snack when my dog gets hungry. Horse shit comes from horses, i dont have a problem with horses them selves, just the retards that ride them on dangerous roads. I would love you to come across these riders while "pounding" out through the section of backroads i am talking about

[Virago]

Fair enough. How dare they use your private race track...?

[fastoyz]

:facepalm:

So the original poster rides a RM250 in jeans! and yet whines about horse shit being dangerous?

How about you keep your unregistered dirtbike off the public road!....YOUR! the one breaking the law and WE are the ones paying the F@#@$ ACC fee's to cover your "can't ride through shit" arse!

I live in an area with tons of horses and even more dirtbikes!...yet they all get along just fine.....why?.....respect for one another! (something the OP has clearly demonstrated a lack of!)

God the retards just keep coming, where did i say i ride a dirtbike on the road? i list that as my bike as a dirt bike kicks a road bikes ass for fun anyday

[Scuba_Steve]

And I can assure you that drivers towing floats will 9 times out of ten pull over or indicate so you can pass WHEN THEY THINK IT IS SAFE FOR THEM TO DO SO.


:blink: where da fuck are you livin??? it's the complete opposite where I am

[puddytat]

The South Isle cuz, the roads here have lesserer traffic:yes:

[scracha]

"scracha" seeing that horse poo is not slippery like cow poo and "has no danger aspect", ill look forward to you demonstrating tactics cornering while riding through it (and you dont have to be going"hard out" either any speed will do, the end result will still be the same)

Having not landed on my arse from road riding for many years, maybe you would be better focusing your attention on learning to ride properly instead of whining at horse riders who generally just mind their own business.


I've stood in both, ( cow & horse), there aint no difference.

Nonsense. I'll happily kick horse poo out the way in our field but I aint trying it with the runny cowpoos. Horse poo aint like cat and dog shit. It won't cause your kids to go blind, doesn't stink nearly so bad and degrades much quicker.


Imdying..yawn...piss poor troll

"Country Driving
If you are driving and approach horses on the road, you must not sound your horn, rev your engine or pass at speed as it might frighten the horse. At night you must dip your headlights when approaching a horse. Two vehicles should avoid passing near a horse. Also be patient when approaching sheep or cattle on country roads and do not intently harm or scare the animals. If you don’t follow these rules you could be charged with careless or dangerous driving."



I would love you to come across these riders while "pounding" out through the section of backroads i am talking about
[/quote]
Ride to the conditions. If you're going around blind corners and hill crests too fast on country roads then you're going to come across cow shit, horse shit, gravel, diesel, dogs, pedestrians, tractors, bicycles, cows, u-turning police cars, sheep and perhaps even horses. If you don't like it, stay in urban areas.



interesting poll results right there... i guess the 68.8% of people who think its a disgusting mess dont pass through this forum...

I'd expect similar poll results to a "should motorcycles be banned?" type question. Luckily stuff polls don't mean shit and our laws are not made by mob rule

[Scuba_Steve]

The South Isle cuz, the roads here have lesserer traffic:yes:

That explains it :yes: believe it's the campers that hold people up & never pull over down there???

[James Deuce]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/5690493/Skid-marks-motorcyclists-messy-slide

[chanceyy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/5690493/Skid-marks-motorcyclists-messy-slide


yeah Cow n chicken poo .. dangerous shit ..

however fark on this one today (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5689807/Horse-in-miracle-car-collision-survival)

[puddytat]

That explains it :yes: believe it's the campers that hold people up & never pull over down there???

Yeah,Nah....sometimes.They are a pain 'cause on our winding roads they really struggle with the corners, then nail it down the straights....you just got to choose the right time & place an have 100mtrs visibility thru the complete manouever,not as far to many people do which is 'Oh theres 100mtrs till that blind corner":facepalm: