Don Brash: "We should decriminalise marijuana"

[puddytat]

Saw him on Q&A today & was stunned to hear him voicing the idea of decriminalisation of Marajuana....:gob:
About as stunned as I was when I heard that the Pope deemed it O.K to wear a rubber on yer willie if you were a male Homosexual prostitute.....:yes:
Cant see that helping his cause.
And Boscowan is going to Quit too....politics that is.:violin:
Maybe he's hoping to get some leverage with the Whanau:facepalm:
Or is he trying to be "Hip"?

[SS90]

A clear case of vote buying, if ever I have seen it.

Shameless.

[Brian d marge]

would prefer the home grown to that eviel shit called kronic, i dont smoke , but the friends that do , seriously worry about the man made shit

male an 1/8 legal , coffe is the most abused , or so I heard

Stephen ....(( Hic )

[Road kill]

Vote buying,,,good luck on that one:bye:

[Bender]

Brash is a dickhead. He always was at the reserve bank, kept homeowners on their knees with interest rate rises (remember 23% anyone?) and was a racist bastard when he was head of the parliamentary national party.

People like Brash are old school and we don't need them any more.

[short-circuit]

Saw him on Q&A today & was stunned to hear him voicing the idea of decriminalisation of Marajuana....:gob:
About as stunned as I was when I heard that the Pope deemed it O.K to wear a rubber on yer willie if you were a male Homosexual prostitute.....:yes:
Cant see that helping his cause.
And Boscowan is going to Quit too....politics that is.:violin:
Maybe he's hoping to get some leverage with the Whanau:facepalm:
Or is he trying to be "Hip"?

Totally agree with legalizing and creating a seriously regulated health-based approach to drugs

....however I agree that this is an attempt at vote buying, is completely left field for Act (excuse the pun). They must be fucking desperate

[YellowDog]

It's been done elsewhere and has lead to many more users than before.

It's certainly a better option than legalising P.

Some I know smoke the stuff for recreational purposes with no ill effects at all, whilst others have become schizophrenic dope heads and then moved on to harder stuff (like P).


Perhaps Mr Brash has a large crop of his own that he wants to sell OR it could just be a new tax revenue stream to replace those lost smokers :yes:

[marty]

On Brash's logic, all crime that does not have an immediately identifiable victim (eg just about every driving offence, many Summary Offences, multiple Crimes Act, etc) costs $$millions to police, so we should therefore decriminalise all of those?

He's an idiot.

[Flip]

The man is a fool.

So are Act supporters.

At least Rodney could dance for his supper.

[The Everlasting]

What an idiot,he is clearly trying to buy votes,I have never liked that man. He will say or do anything to get people to vote for him,then after they have voted for him,he conveniently forgets the things he has promised.

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm inclined to say keep it illegal.

Got enough issues with people abusing booze.

If you need to smoke pot or drink that much as an 'escape' you need to look at your life and take up a hobby perhaps.......one that isn't going plants indoors lol

As for the vote grabbing comments, well duh.

I don't recall too many students complaining when aunty helen was offering a sweet election bribe....

-Indy

[oldrider]

It's been in Libertaranz policy for years, how come it's claimed to be policy property of the "left" leaning? :confused:

[Scuba_Steve]

I think we should legalise it tax da shit outta it like we do with fags & booze & makes some moneys off it :yes: it's gonna be used regardless so might as well make the cash moneys & focus our cops onto more serious matters like P & child abuse

[Latte]

My initial reaction was that he'll lose more votes than he gains by being a proponent for decriminalising.

Personally I'm against it, I see it as more detrimental / less beneficial to decrim it, than it's current illegal status.

[mashman]

It's been done elsewhere and has lead to many more users than before.


Ohhhhhhhh really? (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html) (that's just one article on the subject)... Praps some of you one-eyed mutha fuckas need to revisit your archaic stance on drugs etc... :shifty:... yer as bad as the politicians who use it as a vote winning football. Drug use has and will always exist irrespective of it's legality... I'd suggest, as do the results of REAL research, that you start treating it more socially.

More recent studies are showing that use at an early age can lead to problems in later life, but that was based on rats. There are shitloads of studies around, some suggest that "drugs" (could be booze) are just triggers for pre-existing conditions.

But I agree that Brash is probably political footballing

[puddytat]

Yeah, it was the blatant attempt at vote buying that annoyed me....this guy will sell his soul for power(probably already has):devil2:
Personally I think it should be decrimanlised or as Mashy said not enforced & not legalised, mainly because most of the smokers I know:innocent: would just like to have a few plants amongst the petunias & rose bushes...
As for people selling it, well its got to be a large source of under the table income going into the economy & the Govt. will be getting tax back from it already, albeit indirectly.
And what does John Banks think of this? FFS ....

[mashman]

And what does John Banks think of this?


I'd love to know the answer to that? Has he given one?

.... aaaaaaand almost on que Fake ecstasy agitates drug users (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/10338720/fake-ecstasy-agitates-drug-users/)... which is what happens when your "producers" :shifty: are left to their own devices.

[Zedder]

Dave? Dave's not here man!

[MisterD]

Yeah, it was the blatant attempt at vote buying that annoyed me....this guy will sell his soul for power(probably already has):devil2:


Bullshit is this vote-buying. It's 100% consistent with the principles that ACT was founded on.

[Usarka]

This is from the ex-reserve bank governor who didn't know how asset sale prices were calculated. :tugger:

[Mad-V2]

I'm all for decriminalisation of cannabis, but I hate Mr Brash!
This is why I joined these guys http://www.alcp.org.nz/
I don't see why everyone is against a weed that has not directly killed a single person in human history READ HERE (http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/02/worth_repeating_approved_drugs_10008_deaths_mariju .php).
Alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, and yet we sell it in supermarkets and currently advertise it in the rugby world cup to kids all over the world WTF!!!!
How many pot smokers do you know get stoned at a mates place, then go home and beat the shit out of their wives or abuse their kids? I would take a guess at ZERO!!
But that shit goes on every other weekend when alcohol is concerned.
If you Overdose on weed you get really stoned and cant do much but sit and laugh about how wasted you are.
If you overdose on Alcohol you either die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
If you overdose on your prescription drugs from your GP you die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
P is part of a man made medication (Pseudoephedrine) that is sold openly in chemists throughout the world, but it's o.k coz it relieves hayfever and dulls the pain of colds, flu and headaches.
I'm pretty sure that drinking lots of water, eating correctly and plenty of rest will have a same if not better affect as these man made poison's.
But Ahh but who needs all that healthy shit when ya can buy some tiny pills made in a lab somewhere to mask the symptoms for 10 mins. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!
Man makes far more harmful drugs, chemicals and poisons than nature ever could, so whats so bad about a naturally occurring weed?!


Click pictures for a larger version.
247450247449

FTW!! VOTE ALCP
Fight the war!!!

[superman]

For the people saying it's just a vote grab and out of character... Decriminalisation of acts which only harm oneself are are right down a liberal parties alley. Personally I'm with them on that ideal, I think smokers of cigarettes are retards but I'd push for their right to smoke it.

The hole point of being liberal is every single person in society gets to make their own choice, the problem being of course everyone needs a fair and equal upbringing to make it truly work and not to cause class/race issues. Which are inevitable in any society, so they're barking up the imginary tree.

[Zedder]

I'm all for decriminalisation of cannabis, but I hate Mr Brash!
This is why I joined these guys http://www.alcp.org.nz/
I don't see why everyone is against a weed that has not directly killed a single person in human history READ HERE (http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/02/worth_repeating_approved_drugs_10008_deaths_mariju .php).
Alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, and yet we sell it in supermarkets and currently advertise it in the rugby world cup to kids all over the world WTF!!!!
How many pot smokers do you know get stoned at a mates place, then go home and beat the shit out of their wives or abuse their kids? I would take a guess at ZERO!!
But that shit goes on every other weekend when alcohol is concerned.
If you Overdose on weed you get really stoned and cant do much but sit and laugh about how wasted you are.
If you overdose on Alcohol you either die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
If you overdose on your prescription drugs from your GP you die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
P is part of a man made medication (Pseudoephedrine) that is sold openly in chemists throughout the world, but it's o.k coz it relieves hayfever and dulls the pain of colds, flu and headaches.
I'm pretty sure that drinking lots of water, eating correctly and plenty of rest will have a same if not better affect as these man made poison's.
But Ahh but who needs all that healthy shit when ya can buy some tiny pills made in a lab somewhere to mask the symptoms for 10 mins. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!
Man makes far more harmful drugs, chemicals and poisons than nature ever could, so whats so bad about a naturally occurring weed?!


Click pictures for a larger version.
247450247449

FTW!! VOTE ALCP
Fight the war!!!

Yep, overdoing alcohol is certainly a problem in our society. If it was invented today it would probably be made illegal.

And yes, the legalised pill pushers are pulling a con in a lot of areas.

As far as decriminalising weed goes; maybe, but it's a big step from there to making it actually legal which is what ALCP is going for.

but I'm not sure there's enough data of the long term affects of weed on people to say it's safe.

[Mad-V2]

Yep, overdoing alcohol is certainly a problem in our society. If it was invented today it would probably be made illegal.

And yes, the legalised pill pushers are pulling a con in a lot of areas.

As far as decriminalising weed goes; maybe, but it's a big step from there to making it actually legal which is what ALCP is going for.

but I'm not sure there's enough data of the long term affects of weed on people to say it's safe.


Weed has been widely used around the world since the 3rd millennium BC.
Is that a long enough time period to go by?
A friend of mine has smoked heavily every day for the last 38 years. he holds down a full time job, has 5 kids and is reasonably healthy considering he has smoked cigarettes almost the same amount of time.
How long do they test prescription medications before they are sold over the counter?
How long did they test the affects of alcohol before they sold that legally to people?
Why don't the government do studies on people who have used cannabis for years like my mate has to find out the long term affects?
Why can I go to a bottlestore and buy a bottle of vodka that could kill me if I drink it all in one night?
Why can't I smoke a few grams of weed to relax after working my arse off all day to support the government with the ridiculous amount of tax they pull from my wages every week.

WHY? WHY? WHY?!!!!!

[mashman]

but I'm not sure there's enough data of the long term affects of weed on people to say it's safe.

Asking anyone who has smoked the stuff over periods of years as to the long term affects might be a good place to start :)... but there's a truck load of research out there... but that doesn't matter to TPTB because it's a political hot potato and everyone has been preprogrammed with drugs are bad mkay so just say no.

Here's a start from scissorhands (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/134127-Free-the-weed-dope-cannabis-hooch-Fri-4th-Feb-outside-Auckland-District-Courts?p=1129983004#post1129983004)... It seems to be getting VERY favourable results for Cancer patients... oh the irony. I miss scissorhands, another one of them thar free minds flying in the face of convention :)

[Zedder]

Weed has been widely used around the world since the 3rd millennium BC.
Is that a long enough time period to go by?
A friend of mine has smoked heavily every day for the last 38 years. he holds down a full time job, has 5 kids and is reasonably healthy considering he has smoked cigarettes almost the same amount of time.
How long do they test prescription medications before they are sold over the counter?
How long did they test the affects of alcohol before they sold that legally to people?
Why don't the government do studies on people who have used cannabis for years like my mate has to find out the long term affects?
Why can I go to a bottlestore and buy a bottle of vodka that could kill me if I drink it all in one night?
Why can't I smoke a few grams of weed to relax after working my arse off all day to support the government with the ridiculous amount of tax they pull from my wages every week.

WHY? WHY? WHY?!!!!!

Clinical tests on weed haven't been done like the clinical tests required on legal drugs for the purpose of selling them.

Governments haven't done tests on weed because they probably haven't worked out how to control the growing, selling and taxing of it yet.

The use of alcohol is an ancient intrenched practice in society and riddled with protectionism and corruption (Eg: Rum plantation owners used to be able to buy seats in British parliament) and it makes buckets of money for governments.

You are able to get into a bit of weed, just don't get caught.

[Mad-V2]

Clinical tests on weed haven't been done like the clinical tests required on legal drugs for the purpose of selling them.

Governments haven't done tests on weed because they probably haven't worked out how to control the growing, selling and taxing of it yet.

The use of alcohol is an ancient intrenched practice in society and riddled with protectionism and corruption (Eg: Rum plantation owners used to be able to buy seats in British parliament) and it makes buckets of money for governments.

You are able to get into a bit of weed, just don't get caught.

You don't need to control anything really, just treat it the same as alcohol.
If your caught with too many plants you pay a fine (2 per household limit)(revenue)
If your caught carrying to much you get a fine (within reason)(revenue)
If your a dealer you go to jail/pay a fine (people won't need dealers as it's freely available anyway)(revenue)
Set up licenced premises to sell for medical use and café's (taxable)(revenue)
Set up a licence for growing large quantities with criminal records/background checks (taxable)(revenue)
The usual no driving and working laws with certain levels of THC in your system (revenue)
Age limit 20
Not to be used in public (the same rules as alcohol)
No advertising

Pretty simple really, alot easier than what we have already and we will all benefit.
I would prefer to see it decriminalised rather than legalised but ALCP are all we have.

[Indiana_Jones]

The hole point of being liberal is every single person in society gets to make their own choice,

You forgot to add on the other bit, they can make their own choices, but have to live with the results of those actions. You can have free reign and then expect others to fix it for you if you don't like the end result.

-Indy

[mashman]

"Prime Minister John Key has waded into the cannabis debate by saying it would be a step in the wrong direction to relax the law.

According to his logic, the Law Commission inquiry into the Misuse of Drugs Act and a similar inquiry by the Global Commission were wrong in their conclusions." (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/10341967/ignorance-a-key-factor-in-cannabis-debate-alcp/)

heh heh heh

[mashman]

You forgot to add on the other bit, they can make their own choices, but have to live with the results of those actions. You can have free reign and then expect others to fix it for you if you don't like the end result.

-Indy

the same could be said for any head injury, be it falling off a ladder, coming off a bike, being hit by a car etc... wonder what those stats would look like...

[Zedder]

You don't need to control anything really, just treat it the same as alcohol.
If your caught with too many plants you pay a fine (2 per household limit)(revenue)
If your caught carrying to much you get a fine (within reason)(revenue)
If your a dealer you go to jail/pay a fine (people won't need dealers as it's freely available anyway)(revenue)
Set up licenced premises to sell for medical use and café's (taxable)(revenue)
Set up a licence for growing large quantities with criminal records/background checks (taxable)(revenue)
The usual no driving and working laws with certain levels of THC in your system (revenue)
Age limit 20
Not to be used in public (the same rules as alcohol)
No advertising

Pretty simple really, alot easier than what we have already and we will all benefit.
I would prefer to see it decriminalised rather than legalised but ALCP are all we have.

Alcohol is controlled though, breweries and distilleries need to be licensed = More money for Government.

All the things you have listed are controls too.

Forget ALCP, start your own decriminalisation movement.

[Latte]

Untill you have an answer to the age old question "What's in it for me?" to the majority of the nation, then don't bother, aint gonna happen.

[Indiana_Jones]

the same could be said for any head injury, be it falling off a ladder, coming off a bike, being hit by a car etc... wonder what those stats would look like...

That's why we have insurance, namely ACC.

But hard core libs would love to ditch it and let people get their own insurance/sue etc.

I'm in the middle, as are most people I dare say. We want freedom of choice, but at the same time we don't want a free for all.

It's about finding the middle ground.

If people wanna put that shit into their bodies go for it. I don't want it though, have lived next to a half way house and have seen what it does to people.

-Indy

[DMNTD]

I'll support any law that allows me to have the occasional puff in my own home but pings the dealers that are creating the worst of the cannabis 'culture' (violence/etc).

[scumdog]

Alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, and yet we sell it in supermarkets and currently advertise it in the rugby world cup to kids all over the world WTF!!!!
How many pot smokers do you know get stoned at a mates place, then go home and beat the shit out of their wives or abuse their kids? I would take a guess at ZERO!!
But that shit goes on every other weekend when alcohol is concerned.

Man makes far more harmful drugs, chemicals and poisons than nature ever could, so whats so bad about a naturally occurring weed?!





(a) Shitloads drink JD or wharever AND smoke dope and go on home to beat the missus.

Not all dope-smokers do just that - heaps also drink the evil alcohol.:yes:

(b) Oh come-on, datura, night-shade and a gajillion other 'naturally occuring weeds' are around and sure as hell ARE bad.

Are you trolling???:blink:

[Indiana_Jones]

(a) Shitloads drink JD or wharever AND smoke dope and go on home to beat the missus.

Not all dope-smokers do just that - heaps also drink the evil alcohol.:yes:

(b) Oh come-on, datura, night-shade and a gajillion other 'naturally occuring weeds' are around and sure as hell ARE bad.

Are you trolling???:blink:

I've seen people who are stoned get pretty aggro....

-Indy

[DMNTD]

I've seen people who are stoned get pretty aggro....

-Indy

Lucky they weren't drinking then eh? :sunny:

[Indiana_Jones]

Lucky they weren't drinking then eh? :sunny:

Yea :lol:

One did get really cranky went I took his p pipe off him....

-Indy

[DMNTD]

Yea :lol:

One did get really cranky went I took his p pipe off him....

-Indy

Fair cop....wasn't he sharing? :blink:

[Road kill]

I'm all for decriminalisation of cannabis, but I hate Mr Brash!
This is why I joined these guys http://www.alcp.org.nz/
I don't see why everyone is against a weed that has not directly killed a single person in human history READ HERE (http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/02/worth_repeating_approved_drugs_10008_deaths_mariju .php).
Alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, and yet we sell it in supermarkets and currently advertise it in the rugby world cup to kids all over the world WTF!!!!
How many pot smokers do you know get stoned at a mates place, then go home and beat the shit out of their wives or abuse their kids? I would take a guess at ZERO!!
But that shit goes on every other weekend when alcohol is concerned.
If you Overdose on weed you get really stoned and cant do much but sit and laugh about how wasted you are.
If you overdose on Alcohol you either die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
If you overdose on your prescription drugs from your GP you die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
P is part of a man made medication (Pseudoephedrine) that is sold openly in chemists throughout the world, but it's o.k coz it relieves hayfever and dulls the pain of colds, flu and headaches.
I'm pretty sure that drinking lots of water, eating correctly and plenty of rest will have a same if not better affect as these man made poison's.
But Ahh but who needs all that healthy shit when ya can buy some tiny pills made in a lab somewhere to mask the symptoms for 10 mins. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!
Man makes far more harmful drugs, chemicals and poisons than nature ever could, so whats so bad about a naturally occurring weed?!


Click pictures for a larger version.
247450247449

FTW!! VOTE ALCP
Fight the war!!!

Sounds good mate,,but it's not.
I know people that smoke and abuse both their partners and their kids.
I've walked into a heavy pot smokers house 5 minites after he'd scored a 50 and had his 10 year old son ask me if I would buy him some food,,,then had to watch his old man hit the fucking roof because his kid was so rude to me,,,his words not mine.
I see a lot of pot heads and "a few" of them are just normal people that like a buzz now an then,,,but most of them are puting their weed before their familys welfare at the lest,,,and a lot of them are just burnt out fucking clowns that spend most of their time stoned an bitching about life not being fair.

Yeah alcohol use is a sick joke in this country, but the weed is just something else for the piss weak to use as a crutch,and the vultures to make a profit from.

Fucking save us from shared delusions:facepalm:

[Road kill]

I'm all for decriminalisation of cannabis, but I hate Mr Brash!
This is why I joined these guys http://www.alcp.org.nz/
I don't see why everyone is against a weed that has not directly killed a single person in human history READ HERE (http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/02/worth_repeating_approved_drugs_10008_deaths_mariju .php).
Alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, and yet we sell it in supermarkets and currently advertise it in the rugby world cup to kids all over the world WTF!!!!
How many pot smokers do you know get stoned at a mates place, then go home and beat the shit out of their wives or abuse their kids? I would take a guess at ZERO!!
But that shit goes on every other weekend when alcohol is concerned.
If you Overdose on weed you get really stoned and cant do much but sit and laugh about how wasted you are.
If you overdose on Alcohol you either die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
If you overdose on your prescription drugs from your GP you die or end up seriously ill in hospital.
P is part of a man made medication (Pseudoephedrine) that is sold openly in chemists throughout the world, but it's o.k coz it relieves hayfever and dulls the pain of colds, flu and headaches.
I'm pretty sure that drinking lots of water, eating correctly and plenty of rest will have a same if not better affect as these man made poison's.
But Ahh but who needs all that healthy shit when ya can buy some tiny pills made in a lab somewhere to mask the symptoms for 10 mins. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!
Man makes far more harmful drugs, chemicals and poisons than nature ever could, so whats so bad about a naturally occurring weed?!


Click pictures for a larger version.
247450247449

FTW!! VOTE ALCP
Fight the war!!!

Sounds good mate,,but it's not.
I know people that smoke and abuse both their partners and their kids.
I've walked into a heavy pot smokers house 5 minites after he'd scored a 50 and had his 10 year old son ask me if I would buy him some food,,,then had to watch his old man hit the fucking roof because his kid was so rude to me,,,his words not mine.
I see a lot of pot heads and "a few" of them are just normal people that like a buzz now an then,,,but most of them are puting their weed before their familys welfare at the lest,,,and a lot of them are just burnt out fucking clowns that spend most of their time stoned an bitching about life not being fair.

Yeah alcohol use is a sick joke in this country, but the weed is just something else for the piss weak to use as a crutch,and the vultures to make a profit from.

Fucking save us from shared delusions.

[DMNTD]

Yeah alcohol use is a sick joke in this country, but the weed is just something else for the piss weak to use as a crutch,and the vultures to make a profit from.

Don't disagree on any of that. Just annoying for 'us' mere mortals that choose to have a puff than the prescribed medicines from our local GPs that have caused more damage than pot has (in my specific case).

PS...I can't stand stoners....or drunks

[Mad-V2]

(a) Shitloads drink JD or wharever AND smoke dope and go on home to beat the missus.

Not all dope-smokers do just that - heaps also drink the evil alcohol.:yes:

(b) Oh come-on, datura, night-shade and a gajillion other 'naturally occuring weeds' are around and sure as hell ARE bad.

Are you trolling???:blink:

A. Yes but I think you'll find that even if they didn't smoke that joint at the pub they still would have gone home and done the same thing if that way inclined. Take the booze out of that situation and he probably would have gone home and sat on the couch or shagged his missus.
B. Yes your right, but we are talking about cannabis.
Nature can't compete with some of the shit humans come up with, we've produced some chemicals that are capable of wiping humans from the planet entirely.
Comparing weed to Datura is like comparing beer to terps.

I still don't know what you mean by trolling.
But I do like to contribute to discussions I'm passionate about.

[Mad-V2]

Sounds good mate,,but it's not.
I know people that smoke and abuse both their partners and their kids.
I've walked into a heavy pot smokers house 5 minites after he'd scored a 50 and had his 10 year old son ask me if I would buy him some food,,,then had to watch his old man hit the fucking roof because his kid was so rude to me,,,his words not mine.
I see a lot of pot heads and "a few" of them are just normal people that like a buzz now an then,,,but most of them are puting their weed before their familys welfare at the lest,,,and a lot of them are just burnt out fucking clowns that spend most of their time stoned an bitching about life not being fair.

Yeah alcohol use is a sick joke in this country, but the weed is just something else for the piss weak to use as a crutch,and the vultures to make a profit from.

God Fucking save us from the shared delusions of fat middle class New Zealand:facepalm:

Fair comment but I also know people in the same situation, except they put gambling, booze and P before their family. I would say those three items there are far more damaging to society these days.

[Scuba_Steve]

A. Yes but I think you'll find that even if they didn't smoke that joint at the pub they still would have gone home and done the same thing if that way inclined. Take the booze out of that situation and he probably would have gone home and sat on the couch or shagged his missus.


See that right there (no offense) is some rose-tinted glasses, you only have that impression because that is the propaganda we're sold to try & legalize it. Just the same if they we're trying to legalize booze right now, we'd have (like the ads) mates sitting round laughing having a good time with their booze, not "once were warriors" images, they wouldn't register.
Weed has it's "once were warriors" side too and it doesn't require the addition of booze to come out, weed is capable of it on its own.

In saying that I'm not against legalizing it, I'd still like to see it legalized & taxed to shit like fags & booze :yes:

[sidecar bob]

Id kind of prefer it was illegal to be a dumb angry munter.
Ive yet to meet a smart long term pot head.

[Zedder]

"Prime Minister John Key has waded into the cannabis debate by saying it would be a step in the wrong direction to relax the law.

According to his logic, the Law Commission inquiry into the Misuse of Drugs Act and a similar inquiry by the Global Commission were wrong in their conclusions." (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/10341967/ignorance-a-key-factor-in-cannabis-debate-alcp/)

heh heh heh

John? John's not here man!

[Mad-V2]

Id kind of prefer it was illegal to be a dumb angry munter.
Ive yet to meet a smart long term pot head.

You may already know some smart long term pot heads, but because it's illegal they would never admit to using it.

[mashman]

That's why we have insurance, namely ACC.

But hard core libs would love to ditch it and let people get their own insurance/sue etc.

I'm in the middle, as are most people I dare say. We want freedom of choice, but at the same time we don't want a free for all.

It's about finding the middle ground.

If people wanna put that shit into their bodies go for it. I don't want it though, have lived next to a half way house and have seen what it does to people.

-Indy

Are you saying that ACC should only be given if it's under certain conditions?

I agree the middle ground is tricky to find, but when the Right are screaming that it'll kill off NZ, I'd hardly say they're trying to find the middle ground in any way shape or form... even though they know the practice is common place across the country. So why not make some money out of it? the tourism $$$ alone will be worth it... then there's the boost to the economy from local taxation, after all the criminals already grow the stuff, so the supply chain is already there, as is the demand. The only thing not in place is the legality.

:rofl: aye, it'll be cannabis that put the people in the halfway house :blink: It may well be something that they use, but it doesn't mean that that was the "cause" of their being in the place?

Don't get me wrong, I know it affects people in different ways (have seen it) and I'm not saying noone will be hurt because a person is using cannabis, but the negative hype that surrounds its use is drastically overstated.

As for freedom of choice, it is exercised every day, sometimes for "good" sometimes for "bad" and I'd venture that 99% of the "bad" things that go on around us aren't cannabis related...

[mashman]

Sounds good mate,,but it's not.
I know people that smoke and abuse both their partners and their kids.
I've walked into a heavy pot smokers house 5 minites after he'd scored a 50 and had his 10 year old son ask me if I would buy him some food,,,then had to watch his old man hit the fucking roof because his kid was so rude to me,,,his words not mine.
I see a lot of pot heads and "a few" of them are just normal people that like a buzz now an then,,,but most of them are puting their weed before their familys welfare at the lest,,,and a lot of them are just burnt out fucking clowns that spend most of their time stoned an bitching about life not being fair.


If they were allowed to grow their own, they wouldn't have to shell out to buy any and the kids would get fed/clothes etc...

[mashman]

John? John's not here man!

:rofl: Have you seen Dave then?

[scumdog]

You may already know some smart long term pot heads, but because it's illegal they would never admit to using it.

Sooo...the ones that admit it on here ain't so smart eh?

Ohhhh-kaaayyy...:shifty:

[Mad-V2]

Sooo...the ones that admit it on here ain't so smart eh?

Ohhhh-kaaayyy...:shifty:

You should put togeather a huge operation to have those people busted mate.
should only cost taxpayers a few grand, and you'll get a gold star for your effort :woohoo:

[Zedder]

:rofl: Have you seen Dave then?

Why? Are you Sgt Stadanko?

[puddytat]

Bullshit is this vote-buying. It's 100% consistent with the principles that ACT was founded on.

Now in hindsight I agree with what your saying about vote buying.....'cause it certainly hasnt worked & will I think, be the death knell for them:woohoo:
I thought when he said it that man!!, that was dumb.
Founding principles are one thing....Banks,Brash & Douglas are Hollow men who's principals change when it suits them.Brash is the master of "Squirm" & he is usually the most competent politician i know at never giving a straight answer IMO.
Now we have a Govt. thats struggling to get the retro surveillance bill through who is relying on a party with no elected candidates left ,to help the passage of that Bill.
Doesnt sound overly libertarian to me.
Im not bashing Libertarians !! Just the Terrible Trio.
Finally, I will say that what he did say was DECRIMINALISATION NOT LEGALISATION

[Mad-V2]

So who saw the Campbell live txt poll?
73% of voters thought it should be decriminalised...........

[scumdog]

So who saw the Campbell live txt poll?
73% of voters thought it should be decriminalised...........

'Cos stoners kept forgetting they had already voted so voted again...and again...and again...:nya::rofl:

[mashman]

Why? Are you Sgt Stadanko?

No such luck.

[Oakie]

So who saw the Campbell live txt poll?
73% of voters thought it should be decriminalised...........

Would be interesting to see the same poll run on say
TV1
TV3
Maori TV
National Radio
and compare the results. You need to bear in mind the source when doing polls ... like running a poll asking 'Are motorcyclists good road users" and having it on KB and say the AA website would give different results I'd imagine.
Txt poll means a greater perecentage of TXT savvy (younger) people respond
TV3 ... IMHO a more sensationalist news slant probably attracting less conservative people than TV1.

(And before anyone takes offence at me mentioning Maori TV ... no, I meant nothing by it. Just a counterpoint to TV1 and TV3)

Oh, and I think Don Brash has single handedly ensured ACT will be eunuchs after the next election.

[mashman]

So who saw the Campbell live txt poll?
73% of voters thought it should be decriminalised...........

and 58% say no on the yahoo poll (http://post.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quizresults.php?poll_id=63303&wv=1)... turn on tune in dropout :woohoo:

The annoying thing is that this is already happening. People are already "smoking". On the face of it it looks far less damaging than alcohol going by Law Commissions recommendations, some Global Commissions recommendations and the findings from the last 10 years in Portugal. I'm not saying that cannabis has a perfect record by any means... but it would seem that decriminalisation (i'm happy for it to be legalised) is the ONLY sensible way forwards, and in more ways than just letting stoners get their "kicks".

[Brett]

Ohhhhhhhh really? (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html) (that's just one article on the subject)... Praps some of you one-eyed mutha fuckas need to revisit your archaic stance on drugs etc... :shifty:... yer as bad as the politicians who use it as a vote winning football. Drug use has and will always exist irrespective of it's legality... I'd suggest, as do the results of REAL research, that you start treating it more socially.

More recent studies are showing that use at an early age can lead to problems in later life, but that was based on rats. There are shitloads of studies around, some suggest that "drugs" (could be booze) are just triggers for pre-existing conditions.

But I agree that Brash is probably political footballing

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Utter crock. (except for the Brash playing political football bit). Never has legalisation of a recreational/mind altering (had to put that in there or some smart alec would suggest some clinical meds) drug had a beneficial impact on society and I challenge you to find reputable evidence that concludes otherwise. Edit: or are you referring to some specific social costs?

[Brett]

Are you saying that ACC should only be given if it's under certain conditions?

I agree the middle ground is tricky to find, but when the Right are screaming that it'll kill off NZ, I'd hardly say they're trying to find the middle ground in any way shape or form... even though they know the practice is common place across the country. So why not make some money out of it? the tourism $$$ alone will be worth it... then there's the boost to the economy from local taxation, after all the criminals already grow the stuff, so the supply chain is already there, as is the demand. The only thing not in place is the legality.

:rofl: aye, it'll be cannabis that put the people in the halfway house :blink: It may well be something that they use, but it doesn't mean that that was the "cause" of their being in the place?

Don't get me wrong, I know it affects people in different ways (have seen it) and I'm not saying noone will be hurt because a person is using cannabis, but the negative hype that surrounds its use is drastically overstated.

As for freedom of choice, it is exercised every day, sometimes for "good" sometimes for "bad" and I'd venture that 99% of the "bad" things that go on around us aren't cannabis related...

Agree that there is some truth here...

[SPman]

It's been done elsewhere and has lead to many more users than before.

Portugal switched to this approach a decade ago, and it has been successful. Drug harm - addiction, problematic drug use, and associated diseases like HIV - has declined.
http://blog.soros.org/2011/08/portugal-drug-decriminalization-works/

The police get to spend their time fighting real crime.

He is merely espousing what the Law Commission report on the misuse of drugs found.
http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/project/review-misuse-drugs-act-1975?quicktabs_23=report#node-2079


Drug classifications to be made by Parliament on the advice of an expert committee, rather than the Minister by Order in Council. Which means no more sudden reclassifications because Peter Dunne or Jim Anderton saw someone having fun.
Removing the current presumption that possession of more than a specified amount is for the purposes of supply. This effectively assumes the defendant guilty, and is inconsistent with the Bill of Rights Act. Instead, they recommend a new offence of "aggravated possession".
A presumption against imprisonment for "social dealing" (meaning supply to friends where there is no profit motive). The Law Commission recognises that this isn't a problem, and sticking people in jail for it creates more problems than it solves.
Moving from prosecution for personal possession and use to a mandatory cautioning scheme. Instead of the government wasting money taking people to court for drug use, the police will warn them a specified number of times (depending on the class of drug), with the final warning including advice on addiction treatment.
For those who are prosecuted following a final warning for personal use and possession, a presumption against imprisonment.
Retention of warrantless search powers, with the exception of the power to search places in the case of class C drugs. So the police won't be able to invite themselves in if they "smell cannabis".

He's still a reactionary old dick though!

[SPman]

I know people that smoke and abuse both their partners and their kids.

Just substitute Drink, smoke cigarettes, eat fast food, etc etc etc.... A hardened? pot head is a dick head, regardless, just like all the other losers out there......

[James Deuce]

If he'd launched this from the platform of Finance Spokesperson for the Greens it'd be a winner. He just nuked ACT and his credibility. John Banks will be the leader of ACT before the election hoardings go up.

[mashman]

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Utter crock. (except for the Brash playing political football bit). Never has legalisation of a recreational/mind altering (had to put that in there or some smart alec would suggest some clinical meds) drug had a beneficial impact on society and I challenge you to find reputable evidence that concludes otherwise. Edit: or are you referring to some specific social costs?

See yer Edit :rofl:... yadda yadda some cultures yadda yadda shamen yadda yadda ultimate trust yadda yadda future of their people :shifty:

[Winston001]

Damned if I know. :blink:

1. I think Brash is sincere in saying this is his personal opinion.

2. No way the rest of the ACT party will go along with decriminalisation so he'll have to drop it.

3. Rationally it seems stupid to treat cannabis as unlawful when a fair percentage of the population have used it without ill effect.

4. Policing would be more effective if they could forget about cannabis possession and dealing.

5. On the other hand, tetracannibol drains the brain's natural supplies of dopamine and in some people, this triggers mental illness. Which families and the rest of us bear the sad consequences for.

6. NZ is a signatory to international agreements on drug trafficking so changing our law is no simple process.


I used to be all in favour of legalisation. Now, looking at the few potheads still alive from the 70s and considering the welfare of my children...I honestly do not know.

[Coolz]

Weed,and thats what it is,has been around for over a thousand years without any problems.You have to search pretty hard in the history books to even find a mention of it.In the last hundred or less years booze barons have pressured goverments into making it illegal thus creating the underground culture we have today. Forbid something and it becomes more desirable.Isnt that one of the first lessons in the bible?Ask nearly 50% of NZ adults who have tried it.It is almost a right of passage.Whether you are for or against it is obviously being managed wrongly. The law is an ass and needs to be changed.

[mashman]

5. On the other hand, tetracannibol drains the brain's natural supplies of dopamine and in some people, this triggers mental illness. Which families and the rest of us bear the sad consequences for.


Do you mean Tetrahydrocannabinol? If you do, there was a doco I saw (BBC Knowledge, think I still have it on the sky box) that mentioned that THC could cause problems when used without the rest of the plant, but when they used the rest of the plant and it's naturally occuring ingredient CBD (Cannabidiol) they found that it all but cancelled out the detrimental affects of the THC, and vice versa. Same doco tested rats and found that mental illness was more prevalent in juvenile rats as the body and brain were maturing...

[James Deuce]

Weed,and thats what it is,has been around for over a thousand years without any problems.You have to search pretty hard in the history books to even find a mention of it.In the last hundred or less years booze barons have pressured goverments into making it illegal thus creating the underground culture we have today. Forbid something and it becomes more desirable.Isnt that one of the first lessons in the bible?Ask nearly 50% of NZ adults who have tried it.It is almost a right of passage.Whether you are for or against it is obviously being managed wrongly. The law is an ass and needs to be changed.

Yes, it has, and Hemp is really good for making clothes, paper, and rope, but Marijuana is a different beast altogether and the joint we smoke now is not the joint that was smoked at Woodstock. THC levels are multiples higher from the gentle weed of years gone by, thanks to deliberate selective breeding programs, hence the bigger effect on long term users, particularly in regard to increased incidences of paranoid schizophrenia related directly to excessive cannabis use.

Used in moderation, like most things (except sex of course) it has relatively few side effects, excluding those related to the inhalation of smoke and denser particulates. Your choice though bro.

[puddytat]

It was the Timber Industry in the U.S that originally got Marijuana criminalised....
Back around the beginning of last century,the Hemp industry was worth more than the timber industry, but the timber Magnates had invested gazzilions in new pulp mills to extract Cellulose & couldnt compete against the killer weed growers who were allround more efficient & cost effective in extracting fibre & cellulose....:yes:

Nothing what Lobbyists could'nt fix...

Reefer Madness.:facepalm:

[jazfender]

Brash passing a j would be like your dad joining twitter.

[StoneY]

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Utter crock. (except for the Brash playing political football bit). Never has legalisation of a recreational/mind altering (had to put that in there or some smart alec would suggest some clinical meds) drug had a beneficial impact on society and I challenge you to find reputable evidence that concludes otherwise. Edit: or are you referring to some specific social costs?

So the end of the mafia territorial wars over the bootleging of liquor was a step backwards dude?
The massive drop in drug related crime in central Europe when Amsterdam made it known it was being 'less observant' of its drug enforcement?
The change in cultural behaviour in the states throughout the US where its been either decriminalized or medicinally available?
The fact the cops in the UK are now able to issue a street warning as opposed to wasted time booking and prosecuting (and they consider Heroin a Class B)

Pull YOUR head in ya twat....there are shitloads of examples where relaxing the enforcement on social level drugs such as Cannabis has made a huge positive change.

By the standards enforced on pot heads, alcohol and tobacco need to be made class B substances and banned forever as well...cant have it BOTH ways, and for the first time ever in his political existence I find myself agreeing with Brash....on THIS topic anyway.

Be interesting to see if he wins any votes though...somehow I don't think he will.

[StoneY]

An angle a mate of mine takes on this (he wears a blue uniform coincidentally)

Select some of the more talented growers (he knows a few) set up proper growing factories and sites, license these guys to produce it, sell it via existing licensed substances processes (eg show your ID prove your old enough!)

ALL revenue gathjered and taxes collected goes to the Police Budget for real crime fighting!

Good idea that one

[nadroj]

Cannabis has been blamed for the death of an Inglewood motorcyclist who did not stop in time to avoid crashing into a tractor on the highway.

Engineer Julian Vincent Budd, 51, died from multiple injuries just before 11am on September 1 last year when he failed to react in time to the tractor in front of him on a straight at the top of Big Jim's Hill near Waitara on State Highway 3, Coroner Tim Scott said.

"I find Mr Budd had sufficient time to see the tractor and then brake and avoid the crash and that his slow reaction time can reasonably be considered to be due to the fact that he was riding his motorbike while under the influence of cannabis."

Toxicology tests found the 11mcg per litre of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in Mr Budd's blood was equal to him smoking the equivalent of a single cannabis cigarette within two hours before his death, Mr Scott said.

The main psychological and behavioural effects were euphoria and relaxation, impairment of perception and cognition and loss of motor co-ordination, Mr Scott said.

"The dangers of driving after using cannabis are due to taking longer to respond to events, reduced ability to think clearly and reduced ability to pay attention," Mr Scott said.

The coroner found the tractor driver, Robert Prout was not at fault and bore "no responsibility for the crash".

Mr Prout was travelling about 20kmh on the tractor and ripper plough and was indicating his intention to turn right into 1392 Devon Rd.

He saw the motorcyclist in his rear vision mirror then, as he started to turn, he felt a sudden thump.

Mr Prout found Mr Budd lying unresponsive on the road and the motorcycle under the plough.

Resuscitation was attempted on Mr Budd by passers-by, including a retired nurse and a doctor.

On the arrival of paramedics, it was confirmed Mr Budd had died.

The crash investigation report by Constable Christopher Pelosi of the central region Serious Crash Unit found the crash occurred on a straight stretch of road in fine weather.

Mr Pelosi calculated that the first Mr Budd could have seen the tractor over the brow of the hill was at a distance of 160m.

There were marks on the road showing that the rider had attempted to brake.

If Mr Budd was travelling at or about the speed limit he would have had ample time to see the tractor, react and avoid it from 120m away, Mr Pelosi said.

[oldrider]

If he'd launched this from the platform of Finance Spokesperson for the Greens it'd be a winner. He just nuked ACT and his credibility. John Banks will be the leader of ACT before the election hoardings go up.

True, his sense of timing and his persona etc just don't do it for the average voter!

But for your last comment .... :facepalm:

What an horrific thought, Banks is a worse political opportunist than Winston Peters! :rolleyes:

[MisterD]

2. No way the rest of the ACT party will go along with decriminalisation so he'll have to drop it.

John Banks is the one that's out of step with the principles of ACT, and the only stupid thing here is his membership of the party, he should F-off and join that Colin Craig.


Disclaimer - John Banks is the biggest obstacle to me party-voting ACT as I've done in the last three elections.

[imdying]

Yeah alcohol use is a sick joke in this country, but the weed is just something else for the piss weak to use as a crutch,and the vultures to make a profit from.

Fucking save us from shared delusions:facepalm:So on the abuse list we have alcohol, pot, gambling, fast food. Only one of those is illegal though. You're allowed to be a money grabbing pissed fat cunt, but don't you dare be a stoned money grabbing pissed fat cunt :facepalm:

[scissorhands]

Didnt he make the famous retards list?

nuf said

[jazfender]

Engineer Julian Vincent Budd, 51, died from multiple injuries just before 11am on September 1 last year when he failed to react in time to the tractor in front of him on a straight at the top of Big Jim's Hill near Waitara on State Highway 3, Coroner Tim Scott said.

"I find Mr Budd had sufficient time to see the tractor and then brake and avoid the crash and that his slow reaction time can reasonably be considered to be due to the fact that he was riding his motorbike while under the influence of cannabis."

Mr Budd, HA. That's gold.

[Dodgy_Matt]

Mr Budd, HA. That's gold.

Better than that its Mr J Budd :facepalm:

[scissorhands]

Many of my surfing buddies surf well on weed. What about motocross dudes like The Crusty Demons. Snowboarders, sky divers, mixed martial artists....they love the stuff...

It aint alcohol........

[sidecar bob]

Many of my surfing buddies surf well on weed. What about motocross dudes like The Crusty Demons. Snowboarders, sky divers, mixed martial artists....they love the stuff...

It aint alcohol........
In my early twenties I was a fairly big time pot head & I could also set up & pedal a race bike fairly well, probably for the same reasons this group use it.
I found it affected other parts of my life paticularly negatively & I see those negative things being played out in other heavy pot users lives today.
Every pot head can point out the same old cliches & flawed reasearch that justifies their habit, but for me, its based on expierence & I will never go back there again.

[carver]

legalize that shit, we going to protect everyone from themselves?

[Mad-V2]

Well thats it then cannabis is so dangerous that it makes you crash.... thats how many cannabis related crashes compared to alcohol?
He may have got a bug in his eye, he might have had a sneezing fit, he could have been avoiding a bunny/puppy/kitten/baby.
Maybe Mr Tractor was covering his own arse about his right turn, he may have had mud covered lenses on his trailer indicators and cleaned it off after realising Mr Bud had died, only Mr Tractor and Mr Bud would know that answer.
If I ate a poppy seed loaf and crashed, the coroner would find Opium in my system and say "Yep...this man was high on Opium, It's Opiums fault he crashed"
If Mr Bud was my father, I would be calling bullshit. Being stoned does not make you crash into tractors that you can see from 160m away, especially only one joint two hours before hand

But thats just my opinion, What would I know really :shutup:

[sidecar bob]

If pot apparently mellows people out, why are the most highly strung, angry posters on here kind of admitting to being users?
I see nothing to suggest that the users of said product are mellow, & a lot are plain vicious & irrational.

[puddytat]

Dude, you can apply that logic to any user of anything....we all row the boat that we like the look of most,& you will always get people being passionate about what they believe in.

[Mad-V2]

Dude, you can apply that logic to any user of anything....

Including KiwiBiker

[Scuba_Steve]

Including KiwiBiker

:killingme you can't apply logic to KB...:facepalm:

[mashman]

If pot apparently mellows people out, why are the most highly strung, angry posters on here kind of admitting to being users?
I see nothing to suggest that the users of said product are mellow, & a lot are plain vicious & irrational.

Maybe they don't smoke n post :). :rofl:@angry posters, c'est KB non?

I'm certainly more relaxed on it according to my wife and I haven't "smoked" for a couple of months and although I ain't bouncing off the walls, I'm certainly not as relaxed.... but not enough for me, or my wife, to go out of our way to remedy that by scoring illegal substances. I don't sleep as well either, and that's what I really miss :yes:...

[SPman]

Decriminalising, is not legalising........

[scissorhands]

If pot apparently mellows people out, why are the most highly strung, angry posters on here kind of admitting to being users?
I see nothing to suggest that the users of said product are mellow, & a lot are plain vicious & irrational.

Anger is 1 letter short of danger

Dont live in fear Bob, we love you

http://www.lisakristine.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/Red-Sadhu-India-3.jpg

Its the vegetarian lifestyle that makes them violent

[Usarka]

Never has legalisation of a recreational/mind altering (had to put that in there or some smart alec would suggest some clinical meds) drug had a beneficial impact on society and I challenge you to find reputable evidence that concludes otherwise.

Easy. The legalisation of alcohol in the USA - 1933.

It significantly reduced crime and increased tax revenue.

[scissorhands]

Netherlands-use went down, arrests went down...

Portugal- legalisation of ALL DRUGS 10 years ago

Uruguay- improvement

Mexico wake the fuck up morans

Australia-decriminalised, look how it fucked them up...

[imdying]

wake the fuck up moransStill funny :laugh:

[James Deuce]

Still funny :laugh:

I see what you did there!

[husaberg]

Bullshit is this vote-buying. It's 100% consistent with the principles that ACT was founded on.

What principles. :blink:
They were all right wing ego manics who somehow managed to sneak into the Labour party even though they were slightly more right-wing than Genghis Khan.

While legalising dope may not buy my vote.

If he were to suggest getting rid of speed cameras and then suggest we start drug testing beneficiaries that would get my attention.

[scissorhands]

They were all right wing ego manics

KB members? Thats alcohol for ya

[husaberg]

KB members? Thats alcohol for ya

I see that the narcotics haven't affected your reasoning then, I guess?:yes:
Have you ever read Preebles or Rodger Douglas's books?
Did you even realise they came from the Labour party?
I am not talking the joints your mum was smoking during pregnancy either.
Shit lowering the drinking age was a good idea in your world too, I guess?
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well?
I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well?
Tell me Rhode scholar whats your occupation?
Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you?
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye.

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

[superman]

I see that the narcotics haven't affected your reasoning then, I guess?:yes:
Have you ever read Preebles or Rodger Douglas's books?
Did you even realise they came from the Labour party?
I am not talking the joints your mum was smoking during pregnancy either.
Shit lowering the drinking age was a good idea in your world too, I guess?
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well?
I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well?
Tell me Rhode scholar whats your occupation?
Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you?
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye.

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

:facepalm:


10char

[jazfender]

I see that the narcotics haven't affected your reasoning then, I guess?:yes:
Have you ever read Preebles or Rodger Douglas's books?
Did you even realise they came from the Labour party?
I am not talking the joints your mum was smoking during pregnancy either.
Shit lowering the drinking age was a good idea in your world too, I guess?
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well?
I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well?
Tell me Rhode scholar whats your occupation?
Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you?
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye.

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

This reads like the ramblings of a paranoid crackhead.

[blackdog]

I see that the narcotics haven't affected your reasoning then, I guess?

You would be hard pressed to be able to describe cannabis as a narcotic.

[husaberg]

This reads like the ramblings of a paranoid crackhead.

You do have problems answering questions don't you.
I remember our last discussion You are quite thick on rhetoric but real thin on Answers to what atre simple questions and revert to snide remarks.
If your point of view is able to withstand scrutiny. You would think you would be able to answer simple questions.

[husaberg]

You would be hard pressed to be able to describe cannabis as a narcotic.

I just did. It was quite easy actually.:yes:

[husaberg]

:facepalm:


10char

Vote for the Greens?

[blackdog]

I just did. It was quite easy actually.:yes:

I will rephrase, since the blatantly obvious meaning of my sentence was seemingly beyond your comprehension level.

You would be hard pressed to describe it accurately as a narcotic.

[jonbuoy]

I will rephrase, since the blatantly obvious meaning of my sentence was seemingly beyond your comprehension level.

You would be hard pressed to describe it accurately as a narcotic.

You got to be kidding, maybe the mild stuff is harmless but the engineered stuff is pretty potent. Its like comparing a shandy with half a pint of Grappa.

[blackdog]

You got to be kidding, maybe the mild stuff is harmless but the engineered stuff is pretty potent. Its like comparing a shandy with half a pint of Grappa.

I'm not saying it isn't a potent or powerful drug, just pointing out the way the word narcotic is commonly misused. 'Drug' is not synonymous with 'narcotic'. Describing marijuana as a narcotic is as wrong as saying tobacco or sugar is.

[oneofsix]

I'm not saying it isn't a potent or powerful drug, just pointing out the way the word narcotic is commonly misused. 'Drug' is not synonymous with 'narcotic'. Describing marijuana as a narcotic is as wrong as saying tobacco or sugar is.

But isn't that the rub, or your point. In common use illegal drug is synonymous with narcotic due to the propaganda we have been fed. However, the way I read your post you are saying, by definition marijuana is not a narcotic.

[superman]

Vote for the Greens?

I know you directed your rant to someone else, but it's on the verge of trolling so I'm going to gladly answer your "sincere" questions.

You're being far too simplistic. It shows absolutely no lack of depth in the view points you seem to bring across, almost as though you have more of an "emotional" reason for your views rather than a well thought out process to come to your rants.

You are comparing marijuana to P... which is an absolute joke. P is a synthetic, highly addictive, mind altering drug.

In contrast... marijuana is about as addictive as alcohol. The effects are not mind altering to hallucination. Even bothering to compare it with things such as methanphetamine, acid etc is as clever of you as comparing alcohol with such hard drugs.


Lowering the drinking age to 18 I assume that's what you were talking about, was a fair decision. The binge drinking culture isn't the 18-20 year olds fault. And why should those who aren't raised to follow such a drinking culture not be allowed to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner? Or a beer after a hard days work?

If anything I'd back up lowering the age further for specific weaker alcohol such as beer, (similar drinking ages in Germany/Switzerland) where you can have beer, cider etc at 16. It's NZ's cultures fault, in many European countries kids start having wine at 5 for goodness sake (obviously very watered down). But if it's raised as a normality rather than taboo you might stop people binge drinking. In my experience parents of my friends drunk heavier than we did!


For "I bet you'd be happy for your kids to do drugs"

Define drug... mind altering? Stimulants/depressant?

Should we be as unhappy about kids taking coffee, P, marijuana, alcohol? It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be, all drugs really need to be analysed seperately. There's a continuum of drugs from their negative aspects in which I'm sure you'd agree coffee is low on the scale, alcohol in small quantities is a pretty moderate drug and P is up in the extreme.

Would you be happy with your kids having cough medicine? Or what about a harder drug maybe... morphine just after they've been in a car crash?

If anything any "mind altering" substance should have at least an age of 16 depending on how the education of the population can handle such substances. But would you really ostracise your kid if they wanted to use marijuana recreationally? That's up there with disowning sons that come out to be homosexuals... It's their choice, and if they are educated enough in the matter it should be their own choice.

For pregnant women... they shouldn't even be having caffeine apparently. But it's the womens choice, we'd hope the general population would be educated enough on the matter though quite obviously they aren't since babies are dying sleeping with parents in there beds. Or our great "never shake a baby" educational ads... because people need to be told that.

"P gets a bad rap"

P deserves a bad rap. The reasons behind that are obvious, any drug that leads people to scratching their skin off, grinding their teeth to nothing and wield machetes at people obviously is bad.

[imdying]

Superman, you can't mess with booze. Without it the young adults of New Zealand will have no way to prove how manly they are.

[sidecar bob]

Anyway dope heads, serious question time.
Obviously you smoke to change your perception of who & how you are, or similar.
Does that mean you are not happy with who you are & how you interact with people & arent entirely happy with where you wake up every day until you have a doobie?
Dont preach to me, ive probably smoked more dope than most of you back in the day, but I did something about my lot, & find im far to happy with who I am & where im at in life, to be bothered with a cheap kinda pathetic altered perception these days.

Edit, And an abusive red rep from imdying for this one, that clearly hit a nerve with him. If not needing pot to enjoy life makes me a wanker, then a wanker I am!! 'onya big fella, feel better now, or do you need a doobie for that?

[jazfender]

You do have problems answering questions don't you.
I remember our last discussion You are quite thick on rhetoric but real thin on Answers to what atre simple questions and revert to snide remarks.
If your point of view is able to withstand scrutiny. You would think you would be able to answer simple questions.

Oh yeah, sorry about that. I didn't want to get drawn into your whirlpool of unfounded statements, questions of little relevance (except for setting up strawman arguments) and overblown opinions.

[superman]

Anyway dope heads, serious question time.
Obviously you smoke to change your perception of who & how you are, or similar.
Does that mean you are not happy with who you are & how you interact with people & arent entirely happy with where you wake up every day until you have a doobie

People reliant on any type of drug have issues. You could take the statement you've made and replace it with heavy drinkers. Yet alcohol is still legal, people who have mental issues shouldn't be taking mind altering substances in the first place, they should be seeking counsel.

[superman]

Superman, you can't mess with booze. Without it the young adults of New Zealand will have no way to prove how manly they are.

For people who need to be "manly" there's always...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTpXymuwxNs

[imdying]

And an abusive red rep from imdying for this one, that clearly hit a nerve with him. If not needing pot to enjoy life makes me a wanker, then a wanker I am!! 'onya big fella, feel better now, or do you need a doobie for that?Clearly hit a nerve? What, you think I save up red reps for special occasions? All cock suckers get them, you included.

You got a red rep because your argument is tripe. It appears you can't handle weed, and thus nobody else should be able to try it. Spouting your bullshit is what got you a red rep, not your attitude to others freedom, although that would've been reason enough. The other reason is that there's so many holes in your statement that it's basically not worthy of public debate so it was left to the rep system.

But since we're here, this here would deserve as much derision from me:


Anyway drinkers, serious question time.
Obviously you drink to change your perception of who & how you are, or similar.
Does that mean you are not happy with who you are & how you interact with people & arent entirely happy with where you wake up every day until you have a drink?
Dont preach to me, ive probably drunk more piss than most of you back in the day, but I did something about my lot, & find im far to happy with who I am & where im at in life, to be bothered with a cheap kinda pathetic altered perception these days.

People who can't handle their choice of poison are everywhere, but I don't see why one group of wasted idiots has any more or less right to be wasted idiots than another. Particularly when the oppressed group could never cause the destruction of the socially acceptable group. Sheeple that think they're alright Jack cause they're following the rest of the heard are pathetic.

Ya hear that bob, nice n simple for ya, you are pathetic.

/edit: I do however agree with you on the context of abuse in general. You can get counselling options for your booze or gambling problems from watching the adds on TV. It seems unlikely that by ignoring the problem and throwing money at trying to control something which clearly is not going to be controlled, that abusers of marijuana will be able to get the help they need. It's no different from booze, it should not be treated any differently.

[imdying]

For people who need to be "manly" there's always...Lets be realistic here... nobody in their right mind is going to play a game in which one of the objectives is to physically hurt other people without booze.

/edit: Sorry, no, money would do it too.

[oldrider]

In my early twenties I was a fairly big time pot head & I could also set up & pedal a race bike fairly well, probably for the same reasons this group use it.
I found it affected other parts of my life paticularly negatively & I see those negative things being played out in other heavy pot users lives today.
Every pot head can point out the same old cliches & flawed reasearch that justifies their habit, but for me, its based on expierence & I will never go back there again.

Freedom of choice in action .... the law makes no difference and costs a lot to enforce ... is it actually worth continuing down this current road?

We are virtually in the same position with this topic as we were with legalising/decriminalising prostitution.

I was in favour of that so now we have moved on, what has been the result of that change?

What have been the benefits or losses in community standards etc ... did it achieve it's stated goals?

Should we rush back to where we were before? Probably not! :oi-grr:

I think there is a parallel with that change and this change but it wont effect me directly as I am not directly involved with either activity!

Those that are will be involved regardless of the law anyway and as long as they are not impinging anyone else's rights or freedoms, why not? :kick:

Change the law? :yeah:

[SPman]

Anyway dope heads, serious question time.
Obviously you smoke to change your perception of who & how you are, or similar.
Does that mean you are not happy with who you are & how you interact with people & arent entirely happy with where you wake up every day until you have a doobie?
Dont preach to me, ive probably smoked more dope than most of you back in the day, but I did something about my lot, & find im far to happy with who I am & where im at in life, to be bothered with a cheap kinda pathetic altered perception these days.

Edit, And an abusive red rep from imdying for this one, that clearly hit a nerve with him. If not needing pot to enjoy life makes me a wanker, then a wanker I am!! 'onya big fella, feel better now, or do you need a doobie for that?I used to find it funny, that, with my brother in law and his mates, we'd often climb Taranaki to about a 1000 ft above the Policeman, with our snowboards, then sit and enjoy the view before coming down. The others nearly always pulled out a joint so they could relax and enjoy the scenery! Then would go full speed, straight down the mountain!
I could never figure out why they needed dope to appreciate the wonders of nature...(and bugger going straight down - after expending all that energy it was the long, meandering way down for me)

[Usarka]

I see that the narcotics haven't affected your reasoning then, I guess?:yes:
Have you ever read Preebles or Rodger Douglas's books?
Did you even realise they came from the Labour party?
I am not talking the joints your mum was smoking during pregnancy either.
Shit lowering the drinking age was a good idea in your world too, I guess?
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well?
I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well?
Tell me Rhode scholar whats your occupation?
Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you?
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye.

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.


The vast majority of cocaine users are highly paid professionals.

How does that stack up with your "logic"?

[superman]

Lets be realistic here... nobody in their right mind is going to play a game in which one of the objectives is to physically hurt other people without booze.

/edit: Sorry, no, money would do it too.

If you'd have watched the video you'd know the object of rugby isn't to physically hurt other people!

[husaberg]

The vast majority of cocaine users are highly paid professionals.

How does that stack up with your "logic"?

Stacks up quite nicely as as while most users of high grade cocaine may start out as highly paid professional they don't stay that way for long show me a functioning long term addict. The vast majority of cocaine users are users of crack cocaine BTW

[mashman]

I see that the narcotics haven't affected your reasoning then, I guess?:yes: The term narcotic has been bastardised and traditionally doesn't include marijuana
Have you ever read Preebles or Rodger Douglas's books? Nope, What's yer point?
Did you even realise they came from the Labour party? Nope, What's yer point
I am not talking the joints your mum was smoking during pregnancy either. What's yer point?
Shit lowering the drinking age was a good idea in your world too, I guess? Nope, What's yer point?
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well? My son already does and I won't stop him. If he fucks up with them, that's his own lookout. What's yer point?
I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well? Yes, What's yer point?
Tell me Rhode scholar whats your occupation? I'm a programmer, amongst other things, What's yer point?
Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you? Yes, What's yer point?
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye. Correct. What's yer point?

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

Do you actually have a point, or as mentioned elsewhere, are you a crackhead?

[husaberg]

Do you actually have a point, or as mentioned elsewhere, are you a crackhead?

I think I have made my point By your answers The drugs have obviously affected you and not in a positive way maybe you should be the poster boy for drugs law reform after all

PS You seem to have missed the answering true fully bit.

Lowering the drinking age have a look at the crime stats and the drink driving sats for 18-20 are you sure about the lowering of the drinking age or just not that bright.

Ps your signature says it all really.

[mashman]

Anyway dope heads, serious question time.
Obviously you smoke to change your perception of who & how you are, or similar.
Does that mean you are not happy with who you are & how you interact with people & arent entirely happy with where you wake up every day until you have a doobie?
Dont preach to me, ive probably smoked more dope than most of you back in the day, but I did something about my lot, & find im far to happy with who I am & where im at in life, to be bothered with a cheap kinda pathetic altered perception these days.

Edit, And an abusive red rep from imdying for this one, that clearly hit a nerve with him. If not needing pot to enjoy life makes me a wanker, then a wanker I am!! 'onya big fella, feel better now, or do you need a doobie for that?


:rofl:@dope heads... excellent intro

Other than that, you're judging people using your own yard stick... ever think you may have abused it? after all, it made you miserable to the point where you felt that you needed to change your perception of yourself and your surroundings?

Do you drink?

[mashman]

I think I have made my point By your answers The drugs have obviously affected you and not in a positive way maybe you should be the poster boy for drugs law reform after all

PS You seem to have missed the answering true fully bit.

Lowering the drinking age have a look at the crime stats and the drink driving sats for 18-20 are you sure about the lowering of the drinking age or just not that bright.

Ps your signature says it all really.

Rather that than some form of sanctamonious, ignorant twat who thinks that anyone who has used a drug fits perfectly into your stereotype.

Where did I lie oh Oracle?

If you had read my answers, I answered no to lowering the age of drinking. You really aren't paying attention are you? Are you a politician?

Again, What's your point? As you haven't answered any of my questions, and to quote a great man



You do have problems answering questions don't you.
I remember our last discussion You are quite thick on rhetoric but real thin on Answers to what atre simple questions and revert to snide remarks.
If your point of view is able to withstand scrutiny. You would think you would be able to answer simple questions.

[jazfender]

Anyway dope heads, serious question time.
Obviously you smoke to change your perception of who & how you are, or similar.
Does that mean you are not happy with who you are & how you interact with people & arent entirely happy with where you wake up every day until you have a doobie?

It's weed, not psychedelics.



Dont preach to me, ive probably smoked more dope than most of you back in the day, but I did something about my lot, & find im far to happy with who I am & where im at in life, to be bothered with a cheap kinda pathetic altered perception these days.

You sound like more of a preacher than anybody else here.

Fuck's sake, the worst kind of non-smokers are ex-smokers.

[husaberg]

Rather than than some form of sanctamonious, ignorant twat who thinks that anyone who has used a drug fits perfectly into your stereotype.

Where did I lie oh Oracle?

If you had read my answers, I answered no to lowering the age of drinking. You really aren't paying attention are you? Are you a politician?

Again, What's your point? As you hven'tnswered any of my questions, and to create a great man

I would clearly not ask you how to create a great man. Whats your point is not a question as you are clearly not capable of reaching into your sole and being true to yourself, but then again addicts like most criminals are quite good at justifying they actions and inaction's aren't they.

Drugs haven't done you any harm?It answers it self really.

Yes I did miss your point about the lowering of the drinking age.
I guess you are the typical drug user to amongst other things
So P is real good stuf is it and good for you doesn't lead to crime in your opinion as well.

For every functioning drug user I could point out 3x as many non functioning ones.

Anyway the argument is about the motives into decriminalating Dope as proposed by Don.

[mashman]

I would clearly not ask you how to create a great man. Whats your point is not a question as you are clearly not capable of reaching into your sole and being true to yourself, but then again addicts like most criminals are quite good at justifying they actions and inaction's aren't they.

Is that it? Is that all you have? Picking on typos... you are desperate... and as I suspected, you don't have a point, you don't read the answers to the questions you pose... someone's been blowing smoke out of their ass :yes:... and it's you!

Again, do you have a point?

Perhaps you should go back and read my answers, I answered the one about P too... unless of course you think P getting a bad rap should be answered with a No?

Dude, how wasted are you?

[husaberg]

Is that it? Is that all you have? Picking on typos... you are desperate... and as I suspected, you don't have a point, you don't read the answers to the questions you pose... someone's been blowing smoke out of their ass :yes:... and it's you!

To have a rational argument you would need to be rational.
For me to debate with you you would need to have be capable of rational thought.

You are the Poster boy of why Dope shouldn't be decriminalised.
Show me the benefits of doing it.

Ps I make as many, if not more typos than you. I don't give a shit about grammar
But I do give a shit about my kids and in future hopefully grand kids welfare.

That the fact that you need to take drugs to cope with your life proves it isn't as great as you thing it is.

[imdying]

Dope shouldn't be decriminalised.
Show me the benefits of doing it.We can tax the shite out of for starters. I'd rather that than another ACC increase :laugh:

Gotta ask though, why not a hard line on booze if you're worried about your kids and grand kids?

[Usarka]

Stacks up quite nicely as as while most users of high grade cocaine may start out as highly paid professional they don't stay that way for long show me a functioning long term addict. The vast majority of cocaine users are users of crack cocaine BTW

In common usage cocaine does not refer to crack cocaine. Cocaine (in the common usage) is not addictive.

And from personal experience, 100% of highly paid professionals that I know of who have used cocaine are still highly paid professionals.


To have a rational argument you would need to be rational.
For me to debate with you you would need to have be capable of rational thought.
Yeah about that. You sound like someone who either gets their "rational thought" from wikipedia or you have no real world experience with what you are discussing. From observation Mr Mash appears much wiser than you do........

[mashman]

To have a rational argument you would need to be rational.
For me to debate with you you would need to have be capable of rational thought.

You are the Poster boy of why Dope shouldn't be decriminalised.
Show me the benefits of doing it.

Ps I make as many, if not more typos than you. I don't give a shit about grammar
But I do give a shit about my kids and in future hopefully grand kids welfare.

That the fact that you need to take drugs to cope with your life proves it isn't as great as you thing it is.

You have yet to make a point. There has been no debate. To be capable of rational thought, you have to see both sides of the "argument". You have yet to show any form rationality. All you have done is throw a little mud and ignore the answers given to your questions... just like a politician.

Why am I the poster boy? You have yet to put your side of the "argument" across. I have yet to claim that there are any benefits. What are the benefits of not doing it?

PS... yet YOU feel the need to point out MY typos... narcissism much? I give a shit about my kids future too... Do you class alcohol as a drug?

I don't need to take drugs for any reason. Why do you think that I do?

See if you can answer at least 1 question that I have posted Mr ADHD

[scumdog]

The vast majority of cocaine users are highly paid professionals.

How does that stack up with your "logic"?


Selling illegal drugs full-time for lucrative profit doesn't rate as 'highly paid professional' in my books.

[Teflon]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BYZLI7gVA-c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[husaberg]

You have yet to make a point. There has been no debate. To be capable of rational thought, you have to see both sides of the "argument". You have yet to show any form rationality. All you have done is throw a little mud and ignore the answers given to your questions... just like a politician.

Why am I the poster boy? You have yet to put your side of the "argument" across. I have yet to claim that there are any benefits. What are the benefits of not doing it?

PS... yet YOU feel the need to point out MY typos... narcissism much? I give a shit about my kids future too... Do you class alcohol as a drug?

I don't need to take drugs for any reason. Why do you think that I do?

See if you can answer at least 1 question that I have posted Mr ADHD

Only you can answer why you take drugs but the need to be resorting to take illegal mind altering substances suggests you indeed fall outside a cultural norm.


I have yet again never pointed out your typos Nor do I care about them.
Your answer to the bad rap on P points to you not reading the question have another look for points I have raised look below.
But I do give a shit about my kids and in future hopefully grand kids welfare.

That the fact that you need to take drugs to cope with your life proves it isn't as great as you thing it is.

Drugs haven't done you any harm?It answers it self really.

I think I have made my point By your answers The drugs have obviously affected you and not in a positive way maybe you should be the poster boy for drugs law reform after all

Stacks up quite nicely as as while most users of high grade cocaine may start out as highly paid professional they don't stay that way for long show me a functioning long term addict. The vast majority of cocaine users are users of crack cocaine BTW

Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you? Yes, What's yer point?Why is that I have to pass drug tests to provide the tax money to pay for some of the benefits received Why should not the beneficiaries also have to pass a drug test to receive them.

I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well? Yes, What's yer point?
You say P gets a bad rap in your opinion
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well? My son already does and I won't stop him. If he fucks up with them, that's his own lookout. What's yer point?
You say you are "Happy" for your son to take ilegal drugs Dad of the year material
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye. Correct. What's yer point?

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

Anyway the argument is about the motives into decriminalating Dope as proposed by Don.
For every functioning drug user I could point out 3x as many non functioning ones.

I guess you are the typical drug user to amongst other things.

So P is real good stuff is it and good for you doesn't lead to crime in your opinion as well.

BTW my 15 years of having to deal with idiots like you through our legal system does give me more than a little insight to the problems illegal drugs are in New Zealnd.

But then Again your are just fine Aye.

Have a good hard look at your self and see why you are the posterboy for drug reform.

[jazfender]

^^ All that, right there? Crock.

[Usarka]

Only you can answer why you take drugs but the need to be resorting to take illegal mind altering substances suggests you indeed fall outside a cultural norm.


I have yet again never pointed out your typos Nor do I care about them.
Your answer to the bad rap on P points to you not reading the question have another look for points I have raised look below.
But I do give a shit about my kids and in future hopefully grand kids welfare.

That the fact that you need to take drugs to cope with your life proves it isn't as great as you thing it is.

Drugs haven't done you any harm?It answers it self really.

I think I have made my point By your answers The drugs have obviously affected you and not in a positive way maybe you should be the poster boy for drugs law reform after all

Stacks up quite nicely as as while most users of high grade cocaine may start out as highly paid professional they don't stay that way for long show me a functioning long term addict. The vast majority of cocaine users are users of crack cocaine BTW

Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you? Yes, What's yer point?Why is that I have to pass drug tests to provide the tax money to pay for some of the benefits received Why should not the beneficiaries also have to pass a drug test to receive them.

I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well? Yes, What's yer point?
You say P gets a bad rap in your opinion
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well? My son already does and I won't stop him. If he fucks up with them, that's his own lookout. What's yer point?
You say you are "Happy" for your son to take ilegal drugs Dad of the year material
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye. Correct. What's yer point?

I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

Anyway the argument is about the motives into decriminalating Dope as proposed by Don.
For every functioning drug user I could point out 3x as many non functioning ones.

I guess you are the typical drug user to amongst other things.

So P is real good stuff is it and good for you doesn't lead to crime in your opinion as well.

Thank god you've never done drugs mate, you can't afford to lose any brain cells. I hope you don't drink alcohol or coffee or smoke cigarettes either or I'd think you're even more "out there".....

[husaberg]

Thank god you've never done drugs mate, you can't afford to lose any brain cells. I hope you don't drink alcohol or coffee or smoke cigarettes either or I'd think you're even more "out there".....

Illegal drugs

The topic is decriminalising Dope. An illegal drug
I guess you seen the "Dope" bit and thought I was talking to you?
Sorry

Tell you what seeing as the Dope hasn't effected all your minds Much.

You tell me the benefits of decriminalising Dope and then back them up with real figures and not rhetoric.

Why don't you throw in a couple of Doctors to back your opinions up as well.

Better still stop having to escape reality by needing to take mind altering substances.

[Robert Taylor]

As an employer I wouldnt want anyone working for me that either has an alcohol problem or smokes / injects illegal mind altering substances. Especially as Im in an industry where we have to be very mindful of safety.
Whilst I like some of Acts policies it stuns me that Brash has lost his marbles on this, it will likely be the death knell of the Act party. The only hope they have is John Banks winning the Epsom seat, a guy thats much more capable than that idiot that was elected as Aucklands mayor

[Usarka]

Illegal drugs

The topic is decriminalising Dope.
I guess you seen the "Dope" bit and thought I was talking to you?
Sorry

Oh you and your rational arguments.



but the need to be resorting to take illegal mind altering substances suggests you indeed fall outside a cultural norm.



You do know that the majority of New Zealanders have tried marijuana? So much so that the courts of New Zealand accept that the average New Zealander knows what it smells like?

Of course you do, you're rational....

[husaberg]

Oh you and your rational arguments.




You do know that the majority of New Zealanders have tried marijuana? So much so that the courts of New Zealand accept that the average New Zealander knows what it smells like?

Of course you do, you're rational....

I majority of New Zealanders have sped in a motor vehicle too

That is not a reason to decriminalise it.

The majority of New Zealander's. Do not smoke Dope on a regular basis if you think they do show me the stats.

Act is dead in the Water.

[Oblivion]

Brash's resignation from National should have been his last involvement in Politics.

Marijuana is illegal. Its all that needs to be said. It may be fine if you smoke it seldomly, but whats gonna happen if its legal? There's gonna be dopeheads everywhere.
No one would want to employ them, And guess where they'd end up?

On the dole.

[Usarka]

The majority of New Zealander's. Do not smoke Dope on a regular basis if you think they do show me the stats.


You're making the assertion, practice what you preach and show the stats. If not here's a hypocrite badge.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_C844Ucl3RGY/TNI3LsdPH3I/AAAAAAAABQg/woaugQ1A4Cc/s400/hypocrite.jpg

[husaberg]

You're making the assertion, practice what you preach and show the stats.

Go to drug testing http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:nMDKUVU-6vUJ:www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/DrugTestingGPCME2009.pdf+drug+testing+stats&hl=en&gl=nz&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShsZ4lm9Lj5W2gGqj2B9UUmNkO9X1UgIspuE4Kn _cssLJEZNrHWtvUrtI64KFELgjZNjp6G97IGRZVyvY7p22alU6 N7V0DDRQOFLMsUcWjA3Ek53c83A-ZRPUHXxK8Xb0BE5GjU&sig=AHIEtbTDUNjy75X_dc5PkJEOZb6eSnAT2wthe stats are all there

Of course they don't do the beneficiaries do they.

[Teflon]

:doobey::doobey::doobey::doobey::ride::ride::group hug::grouphug:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3ciXlcM-DXA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:sunny::sunny::sunny:

[Usarka]

Go to drug testing
Of course they don't do the beneficiaries do they.

Hey look they include alcohol in that document.

Cool, so the VAST majority of kiwi's are regular users of drugs.

[husaberg]

Hey look they include alcohol in that document.

Cool, so the VAST majority of kiwi's are regular users of drugs.

The 98% pass kind of scuppers your argument a bit.
But I guess you missed that bit.

[mashman]

the stuff you've written

ha ha ha haaaaaaa, now we get down to it. You have your stereotype and will stick to it. I take back any credit I gave you for the ability to have a free thought.

You're a closed minded dickhead.

[mashman]

Marijuana is illegal. Its all that needs to be said. It may be fine if you smoke it seldomly, but whats gonna happen if its legal? There's gonna be dopeheads everywhere.
No one would want to employ them, And guess where they'd end up?

On the dole.

trolling much?

[husaberg]

ha ha ha haaaaaaa, now we get down to it. You have your stereotype and will stick to it. I take back any credit I gave you for the ability to have a free thought.

You're a closed minded dickhead.

I was asked for Stats. You don't like the stats so you ignore them then say I am closed minded.
Your drug use places you in the minority Dickhead.
Tell you want.
Send an email to your employers stating your views on how its how illegal drugs are ok and see what happens
Do that and copy us all in and I will not stereotype you.
As you are a great role model for your Kids after all.

[jazfender]

Your drug use places you in the minority Dickhead.

This argument does not fly on a site for a minority pursuit.

[Shadowjack]

This argument does not fly on a site for a minority pursuit.

A legal minority pursuit...

[mashman]

I was asked for Stats. You don't like the stats so you ignore them then say I am closed minded.
Your drug use places you in the minority Dickhead.
Tell you want.
Send an email to your employers stating your views on how its how illegal drugs are ok and see what happens
Do that and copy us all in and I will not stereotype you.
As you are a great role model for your Kids after all.

I don't ignore the stats because I know that drug use and drug abuse goes on day in and day out for a multitude of reasons. I accept that I cannot tell a grown adult what they can and can't do.
Minority? Alcohol is a drug and it's used by the majority of the country. But your prejudice won't accept that as a fact. Yes, prejudice!
My employers are one of the reasons I don't take illegal drugs. That doesn't fit with your stereotype does it?
Why would my kids know that I have taken drugs? well apart from my 20 yr old son. Having said that... when they're old enough, I'll tell them, and if they're curious, I will "show" them so that they can make their own minds up, just in case they get peer pressured into it.

[StoneY]

KB members? Thats alcohol for ya

Yup (KB members that is and shit...Im one too!)


Stacks up quite nicely as as while most users of high grade cocaine may start out as highly paid professional they don't stay that way for long show me a functioning long term addict. The vast majority of cocaine users are users of crack cocaine BTW

calling meth cocaine is like calling beer cider dude - not that I advocate using either substance.



We can tax the shite out of for starters. I'd rather that than another ACC increase :laugh:

i agree and my brothers opinion is license it and tax it, strictly enforce the age/licensing laws, free cops up, and make a shitload of income for the country from an existing market, bolster Police funds direct with it.


Gotta ask though, why not a hard line on booze if you're worried about your kids and grand kids?

Your joking right? Trolled bruv.

[husaberg]

Yup (KB members that is and shit...Im one too!)



calling meth cocaine is like calling beer cider dude -



Crack cocaine is Crack cocaine it is a unrefined form of coke I never called it Meth

[husaberg]

I don't ignore the stats because I know that drug use and drug abuse goes on day in and day out for a multitude of reasons. I accept that I cannot tell a grown adult what they can and can't do.
Minority? Alcohol is a drug and it's used by the majority of the country. But your prejudice won't accept that as a fact. Yes, prejudice!
My employers are one of the reasons I don't take illegal drugs. That doesn't fit with your stereotype does it?
Why would my kids know that I have taken drugs? well apart from my 20 yr old son. Having said that... when they're old enough, I'll tell them, and if they're curious, I will "show" them so that they can make their own minds up, just in case they get peer pressured into it.



Who the fuck said anything about alcohol your dickhead twin said they were included it the drug testing
he said the results include alcohol I pointed out even with the positives for the Alcohol it still only added up to 2 % positive.
You are a total retard.
Alcohol is legal Dope is not it is not the norm to use it (DOPE) no mater how much you think it is.
Shit we would be fucked without Alcohol. You certainly wouldn't get a root without it.
You are beyond words and full of shit I doubt you have a job. "Amongst other things"

Mashman
I bet you would be happy for your kids to do drugs as well? My son already does and I won't stop him. If he fucks up with them, that's his own lookout. What's yer point?
I suppose P gets a bad rap in your opinion as well?Yes, What's yer point?
Tell me Rhode scholar whats your occupation? I'm a programmer, amongst other things, What's yer point?
Does the idea of drug testing of beneficiaries offend you? Yes, What's yer point?
Drugs sure have not done you any harm after all, aye. Correct. What's yer point?

[mashman]

Who the fuck said anything about alcohol your dickhead twin said they were included it the drug testing
he said the results include alcohol I pointed out even with the positives for the Alcohol it still only added up to 2 % positive.
You are a total retard.
Alcohol is legal Dope is not it is not the norm to use it no mater how much you think it is.
Shit we would be fucked without Alcohol. You certainly wouldn't get a root without it.
You are beyond words and full of shit I doubt you have a job.


I'll be quite surprised if you can answer all these questions truthfully.

ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... take a chill pill man.
I never said I read the stats page that you posted... and I have brought alcohol into the debate on numerous occassions, yet all you can do is hide behind your ignorant attitude that alcohol is safer and causes less harm to society than marijuana based on its legal status.
A retard eh... well that puts me several rungs further up the evolutionary ladder than yourself. It must have been the drugs.
Alcohol is the Norm? Superb attitude. It causes huge amounts of damage, but it's ok, because it's the norm, because it's legal. Sweet sweet logic. the Norm needs to change if it damages brain cells at the same rate it seems to have damaged yours.
Why do you need alcohol if life is as shiny and bright as you say it is? It alters your reality, lowers your inhibitions, can kill in one night and has a worse kill ratio than illegal drugs... and you call yourself logical and rational?
Ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. Sorry to dissapoint you, I have a job and work hard and I have a wife and get laid.

You can't stereotype me, so you resort to pathetic jibes that lack the imagination of a 4 yr old... perhaps that's a side affect of your alcohol abuse.

So again, Where's the lie? booze really has damaged you hasn't it.

[husaberg]

ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... take a chill pill man.
I never said I read the stats page that you posted... and I have brought alcohol into the debate on numerous occassions, yet all you can do is hide behind your ignorant attitude that alcohol is safer and causes less harm to society than marijuana based on its legal status.
A retard eh... well that puts me several rungs further up the evolutionary ladder than yourself. It must have been the drugs.
Alcohol is the Norm? Superb attitude. It causes huge amounts of damage, but it's ok, because it's the norm, because it's legal. Sweet sweet logic. the Norm needs to change if it damages brain cells at the same rate it seems to have damaged yours.
Why do you need alcohol if life is as shiny and bright as you say it is? It alters your reality, lowers your inhibitions, can kill in one night and has a worse kill ratio than illegal drugs... and you call yourself logical and rational?
Ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. Sorry to dissapoint you, I have a job and work hard and I have a wife and get laid.

You can't stereotype me, so you resort to pathetic jibes that lack the imagination of a 4 yr old... perhaps that's a side affect of your alcohol abuse.

So again, Where's the lie? booze really has damaged you hasn't it.

Read my post again look for the brackets I never said alcohol was the norm I said dope wasn't The norm. Now I picking at your grammar. Infact the only time I mentioned it otherwise was when I said it wasn't a great idea to lower the drinking age. You agreed BTFW

Alcohol is legal Dope is not it is not the norm to use it (DOPE) no mater how much you think it is.

I edited this bit you posted so it fits in with the rest of the story

Mashman Ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. Sorry to dissapoint you, I have got laid off my job and and I have a wife that is hard work .

Sorry to dissapoint you, I have a job and work hard and I have a wife and get laid.

Prove it. Video will do but cover your face as well as your "wifes"
I guess my can thank alcohol for that.
Dickhead is the sterotype you best seem to fit in

[mashman]

Read my post again look for the coma I never said alcohol was the norm I said dope wasn't The norm. Now I picking at your grammar.
Dickhead is the sterotype you fit in

Prove it. Video will do but cover your face as well as your "wifes"
I guess my can thank alcohol for that.

Thanks for the clarification re: Dope. Are you saying that alcohol isn't the norm? even though the majority use it?
Two dickheads on KB, who woulda thought it ever possible...

Now you're just getting creepy asking for vids. but if it'll finally help you finish.... hang on...

[husaberg]

Thanks for the clarification re: Dope. Are you saying that alcohol isn't the norm? even though the majority use it?
Two dickheads on KB, who woulda thought it ever possible...

Now you're just getting creepy asking for vids. but if it'll finally help you finish.... hang on...

I have no opinion on Alcohol that has any thing to do with the decriminalisation of Dope.

But I do Now favour the IQ testing of potential voters, maybe drug test them to as well there are some real freaks around.

[mashman]

I have no opinion on Alcohol that has any thing to do with the decriminalisation of Dope.

But I do Now favour the IQ testing of potential voters, maybe drug test them to as well there are some real freaks around.

IQ, that's a goody. Coz it meanz that they iz intelligent coz they know shit. And you wonder why you've spent the last 15 years in the law system with things only getting worse. The best and brightest non drug taking people we have are running the country. Get a grip sunshine. I insulted 4yr olds earlier because of you.

But I'll save you the trouble. I don't vote.

I'd prefer marijuana legalisation, but will settle for decriminalisation. It will bring in much required revenue for the country (tourism, taxation, medical research/trials), free up police resources to go after P dealers (amongst others), it will force NZ society to educate kids instead of tellling them to just say no for no reason other than the grown ups say so and it will hopefully cut the alcohol dependent culture that we currently have. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons. Time to grow up sunshine.

[husaberg]

I know you directed your rant to someone else, but it's on the verge of trolling so I'm going to gladly answer your "sincere" questions.

You're being far too simplistic. It shows absolutely no lack of depth in the view points you seem to bring across, almost as though you have more of an "emotional" reason for your views rather than a well thought out process to come to your rants.

You are comparing marijuana to P... which is an absolute joke. P is a synthetic, highly addictive, mind altering drug.

In contrast... marijuana is about as addictive as alcohol. The effects are not mind altering to hallucination. Even bothering to compare it with things such as methanphetamine, acid etc is as clever of you as comparing alcohol with such hard drugs.


Lowering the drinking age to 18 I assume that's what you were talking about, was a fair decision. The binge drinking culture isn't the 18-20 year olds fault. And why should those who aren't raised to follow such a drinking culture not be allowed to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner? Or a beer after a hard days work?

If anything I'd back up lowering the age further for specific weaker alcohol such as beer, (similar drinking ages in Germany/Switzerland) where you can have beer, cider etc at 16. It's NZ's cultures fault, in many European countries kids start having wine at 5 for goodness sake (obviously very watered down). But if it's raised as a normality rather than taboo you might stop people binge drinking. In my experience parents of my friends drunk heavier than we did!


For "I bet you'd be happy for your kids to do drugs"

Define drug... mind altering? Stimulants/depressant?

Should we be as unhappy about kids taking coffee, P, marijuana, alcohol? It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be, all drugs really need to be analysed seperately. There's a continuum of drugs from their negative aspects in which I'm sure you'd agree coffee is low on the scale, alcohol in small quantities is a pretty moderate drug and P is up in the extreme.

Would you be happy with your kids having cough medicine? Or what about a harder drug maybe... morphine just after they've been in a car crash?

If anything any "mind altering" substance should have at least an age of 16 depending on how the education of the population can handle such substances. But would you really ostracise your kid if they wanted to use marijuana recreationally? That's up there with disowning sons that come out to be homosexuals... It's their choice, and if they are educated enough in the matter it should be their own choice.

For pregnant women... they shouldn't even be having caffeine apparently. But it's the womens choice, we'd hope the general population would be educated enough on the matter though quite obviously they aren't since babies are dying sleeping with parents in there beds. Or our great "never shake a baby" educational ads... because people need to be told that.

"P gets a bad rap"

P deserves a bad rap. The reasons behind that are obvious, any drug that leads people to scratching their skin off, grinding their teeth to nothing and wield machetes at people obviously is bad.

Sorry I missed your post Well said and Yes I was meaning illegal drugs
Alcohol was posted in relation to I guess the poster thought the lowering of the drinking age was a great idea
The smoking during pregnancy was a pun on "Labour party" You are not the only one who missed it.
Yes we have both a drinking and drug problem with our youth making them more readily accessible and decriminalizing there use and lowering ages is not the answer.
Re the child never ostracizing, but not thats its ok either as my "mate" here above says.

[husaberg]

IQ, that's a goody. Coz it meanz that they iz intelligent coz they know shit. And you wonder why you've spent the last 15 years in the law system with things only getting worse. The best and brightest non drug taking people we have are running the country. Get a grip sunshine. I insulted 4yr olds earlier because of you.

But I'll save you the trouble. I don't vote.

I'd prefer marijuana legalisation, but will settle for decriminalisation. It will bring in much required revenue for the country (tourism, taxation, medical research/trials), free up police resources to go after P dealers (amongst others), it will force NZ society to educate kids instead of tellling them to just say no for no reason other than the grown ups say so and it will hopefully cut the alcohol dependent culture that we currently have. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons. Time to grow up sunshine.

Show us the stats otherwise its all talk
I agree with the education but guess what.The judicial system doesn't target users. It targets dealers the first choice isn't dope dealers either. With decriminalizing it you say all of a sudden people are going to start paying gst and Tax think again and research yeah tourism? shifting the booze culture to Dope, that is the way forward. Is that what your saying?
The message about drugs will be a mixed message I would say. It seems like you are saying Dope is ok but not other illegal drugs. Where do you draw the line.

[mashman]

Show us the stats otherwise its all talk
I agree with the education but guess what.The judicial system doesn't target users. It targets dealers the first choice isn't dope dealers either.With decriminalizing it you say all of a sudden people are going to start paying gst and Tax think again and research yeah? shfting the booze culture to Dope that the way forward is that what your saying?

Stats for what?
I'm not saying the judicial system targets anyone, that's not their function is it?
Why wouldn't people start paying tax and gst? They do for alcohol. Why would you do anything differrent for marijuana? Have a look at Portugals drug laws and societal response in answer to your research requirement... and they did it for EVERY drug. Here's one I posted earlier (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html)... it was on Page 1.
I'd rather we shifted away from booze and I see marijuana as the lesser of 2 evils. who knows, people may actually make their own minds up and do neither :shit:...



The message about drugs will be a mixed message I would say.

Then educate the current and subsequent generations properly. No mixed message then.

[husaberg]

Stats for what?
I'm not saying the judicial system targets anyone, that's not their function is it?
Why wouldn't people start paying tax and gst? They do for alcohol. Why would you do anything differrent for marijuana? Have a look at Portugals drug laws and societal response in answer to your research requirement... and they did it for EVERY drug. Here's one I posted earlier (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html)... it was on Page 1.
I'd rather we shifted away from booze and I see marijuana as the lesser of 2 evils. who knows, people may actually make their own minds up and do neither :shit:...
Then educate the current and subsequent generations properly. No mixed message then.
I had a look and yes some of the figures could be construed as a declining but they would have to be compared with other countries where it wasn't decriminalized. Remember Heroin use is on the decline the other drugs are really mentioned. HIV rates are dropping with education in the western world.The article you quoted is an article written to sell the story and influence opinion not statistics.NZ doesn't target users they are often given the option of treatment or sent to treatment and are rarely if eversent to jail for possession for own use.
Legitimisising drug use doesn't make the problems go away. Sigma isn't the problem.
Alcohol gathers revenue as there is not a huge already established black market in it sales and distribution do you think all of a sudden these people will go legit really?

[mashman]

I had a look and yes some of the figures could be construed as a declining but they would have to be compared with other countries where it wasn't decriminalized. Remember Heroin use is on the decline the other drugs are really mentioned. HIV rates are dropping with education in the western world.Thats an article written to sell the story and influence opinion not statistics.

Alcohol gathers revenue as there is not a huge already established black market in it sales and distribution do you think all of a sudden these people will go legit really?

Sure, the article is tainted by the "statistical" results of a 10 year study needing to be fudged so that it looks like only 1 place on the face of the planet has shown that decriminalisation works. I'd say you were in denial, but you'd just deny that :blink:. You can always change the law back if it doesn't work.

Alcohol gathers revenue, so that makes it alright? It also claws back vast chunks of that revenue in the damage it causes... If you want a cafe/bar in the city, then you're gonna have to be legit and pay gst and taxes. It is a social drug, just like alcohol. And not everyone sits at home and gets stoned by themselves. The legal highs, before they banned them, were making a fortune. Why? Is it because they were legal?

[Berries]

I'd prefer marijuana legalisation, but will settle for decriminalisation.
Nah. Bill Hicks had it right. Cannabis should be compulsory.

[mashman]

Nah. Bill Hicks had it right. Cannabis should be compulsory.

t'would certainly make Parliament TV worth watching.

[husaberg]

Sure, the article is tainted by the "statistical" results of a 10 year study needing to be fudged so that it looks like only 1 place on the face of the planet has shown that decriminalisation works. I'd say you were in denial, but you'd just deny that :blink:. You can always change the law back if it doesn't work.

Alcohol gathers revenue, so that makes it alright? It also claws back vast chunks of that revenue in the damage it causes... If you want a cafe/bar in the city, then you're gonna have to be legit and pay gst and taxes. It is a social drug, just like alcohol. And not everyone sits at home and gets stoned by themselves. The legal highs, before they banned them, were making a fortune. Why? Is it because they were legal?

You have lost me sorry .But laws are really changed back unfortunately to many legal cans of worms.
what I am saying is. that article contains no where near enough information to make a decision. it is a snapshot that does not show any comparisons with real time figures from a country with similar demographics and make comparisons it does not show all the drug use it only gives a small part of the picture. It looks promising for your hypothesis but is incomplete data and therefor tainted. Sorry its not sour grapes.
I could give you statistics that suggest that since milk was pastured the divorce rate has gone up over 80%.But that is just an example of using statistics not in there full context in a way that suits But the figures are there.The birth rate has gone down to.
There was no legal black market highs was there established to compete against the legal (at the time) ones was there?
Lastly have never suggested Alcohol is great.

[Coolz]

Decriminalising Marijuana does not make it legal. It will still be an offence,but a civil offence not a criminal one.Much like a speeding one,it will be dealt with a ticket,instant fine.This frees up the costly court system and generates revenue. This only applies to very small amounts of marijuana.Growing,selling,and possesing larger amounts would still be a criminal offence and treated the same as it is now. This is what Don Brash is proposing. P and crack cocaine are irrelevant to this discussion. If you have a teenager going through the experimenting stage would you rather have it dealt with a civil fine or a criminal record for life?

[superman]

Sorry I missed your post Well said and Yes I was meaning illegal drugs
Alcohol was posted in relation to I guess the poster thought the lowering of the drinking age was a great idea
The smoking during pregnancy was a pun on "Labour party" You are not the only one who missed it.
Yes we have both a drinking and drug problem with our youth making them more readily accessible and decriminalizing there use and lowering ages is not the answer.
Re the child never ostracizing, but not thats its ok either as my "mate" here above says.

All the ideals really rest on solid education of the population and increased awareness of risks. You can see with smoking (which I guess you could loosely classify as a drug due to the stimulation received (no pun intended)) that numbers are decreasing steadily and there are those who still choose to smoke. Do those who still wish to even after knowing all the ill effects not deserve the right to still smoke in their property? And there's always those who might enjoy a cigar 3-4 times a year, nom nom. Should they not be allowed to smoke either?

[StoneY]

Crack cocaine is Crack cocaine it is a unrefined form of coke I never called it Meth

Then dude if you're talking NZ drugs wake the fuck up and start demonstrating you have some understanding of the scene..

In 30 years of hanging round people who enjoy various substances that may or may not be legal, I have seen Cocaine ONCE! (Let alone CRACK ffs!)
I have been witness to the vile display of P (Meth) smoking too many times to count. I have never seen Crack in NZ (although I have in America)

If you are going to flog an opinion about social substance abuse in this country make sure you are talking about the correct chemical pack.

Further, as mentioned by another poster back there a bit this is about POT, not class A narcotic abuse, or class B either (although if anyone mentions hashish or cannabis oil there is room to move there)

So...compare apples to apples or quit trying to sound like a fucked up Dr Phil.
:shutup:

[husaberg]

Then dude if you're talking NZ drugs wake the fuck up and start demonstrating you have some understanding of the scene..

In 30 years of hanging round people who enjoy various substances that may or may not be legal, I have seen Cocaine ONCE! (Let alone CRACK ffs!)
I have been witness to the vile display of P (Meth) smoking too many times to count. I have never seen Crack in NZ (although I have in America)

If you are going to flog an opinion about social substance abuse in this country make sure you are talking about the correct chemical pack.

Further, as mentioned by another poster back there a bit this is about POT, not class A narcotic abuse, or class B either (although if anyone mentions hashish or cannabis oil there is room to move there)

So...compare apples to apples or quit trying to sound like a fucked up Dr Phil.
:shutup:

Yeah dude
Why don't you take the time to go back to where I was quoted and see why it was mentioned. I never brought up Cocaine have a look and then apologise later

[mashman]

You have lost me sorry .But laws are really changed back unfortunately to many legal cans of worms.
what I am saying is. that article contains no where near enough information to make a decision. it is a snapshot that does not show any comparisons with real time figures from a country with similar demographics and make comparisons it does not show all the drug use it only gives a small part of the picture. It looks promising for your hypothesis but is incomplete data and therefor tainted. Sorry its not sour grapes.
I could give you statistics that suggest that since milk was pastured the divorce rate has gone up over 80%.But that is just an example of using statistics not in there full context in a way that suits But the figures are there.The birth rate has gone down to.
There was no legal black market highs was there established to compete against the legal (at the time) ones was there?
Lastly have never suggested Alcohol is great.

Rarely changed back does not mean NEVER, and is a poor excuse.
The fact that you can say that pasteurised milk is linked to the divorce rate shows that you will ignore any statistics put before you that you don't personally see as having the remotest possibility of being valid.
Here you show your true ignorance. A similar demographic? I can do one better than that. Portugal is populated by Human Beings that make their own decisions about what they put into their bodies. They have made their choices and the results seem to support that the affects of their law change on the country have potentially been for the better. Portugal is not some small control experiment (unlike the statistics the govt use), it's a whole country and the experiment has been going for the last 10 years. NZ is full of Human Beings too, that's a pretty fundamental demographic. You can't package people into neat little boxes, as you attempt to do, that's why you hide behind the need for statistics.

Your dismissal of the Portugal "experiment", the need for statistical demographic driven information and your work in the judicial systems shows how one-eyed, and prejudiced, you are on the subject of marijuana use and its legal status. Pretty poor considering you're supposed to be a logical rational human being.

[Brett]

So the end of the mafia territorial wars over the bootleging of liquor was a step backwards dude?
The massive drop in drug related crime in central Europe when Amsterdam made it known it was being 'less observant' of its drug enforcement?
The change in cultural behaviour in the states throughout the US where its been either decriminalized or medicinally available?
The fact the cops in the UK are now able to issue a street warning as opposed to wasted time booking and prosecuting (and they consider Heroin a Class B)

Pull YOUR head in ya twat....there are shitloads of examples where relaxing the enforcement on social level drugs such as Cannabis has made a huge positive change.

By the standards enforced on pot heads, alcohol and tobacco need to be made class B substances and banned forever as well...cant have it BOTH ways, and for the first time ever in his political existence I find myself agreeing with Brash....on THIS topic anyway.

Be interesting to see if he wins any votes though...somehow I don't think he will.

Lots of claims, not interesting in referencing the authority behind those? Your mafia bootlegging claim is hardly even pertinent. Agreed, tighter laws on tobacco and alcohol are needed. The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

[Brett]

Decriminalising, is not legalising........

And I do NOT disagree with decriminalisation at all.

[Brett]

Easy. The legalisation of alcohol in the USA - 1933.

It significantly reduced crime and increased tax revenue.

And significantly increased consumption.

[oneofsix]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/5703090/US-government-supplies-pot-to-citizens

[scissorhands]

I thought you guys were bikers, not a bunch of pussies

Next you'll be in favour of religious programming....

And supporting the role of a black market, gangs, territory, violence

Mexico in NZ?

oh wait...

[mashman]

Lots of claims, not interesting in referencing the authority behind those? Your mafia bootlegging claim is hardly even pertinent. Agreed, tighter laws on tobacco and alcohol are needed. The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

Even 1 glass of alcohol can affect your judgement. You can put as much marijuana in a joint as you wish, to obtain whatever affect you require, you can also have a single drag to the point where there is no loss of mental cognition. A line of cocaine doesn't leave the user in a mentally impaired state...

[imdying]

The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.Where do statements like "Cheap date" or "One can man" come from then? Myth?

[Deano]

Lots of claims, not interesting in referencing the authority behind those?

Fair enough call.


The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

Can you provide a reference of authority on that ? :shutup:

[Clockwork]

I majority of New Zealanders have sped in a motor vehicle too

That is not a reason to decriminalise it.

Ummmmm speeding is not a criminal offense. I have been convicted of speeding. I do not have a criminal record.


....
Alcohol is legal Dope is not .....

Ummmm, isn't that the point of this little debate?




This guy pretty much says it all....

Decriminalising Marijuana does not make it legal. It will still be an offence,but a civil offence not a criminal one.Much like a speeding one,it will be dealt with a ticket,instant fine.This frees up the costly court system and generates revenue. This only applies to very small amounts of marijuana.Growing,selling,and possesing larger amounts would still be a criminal offence and treated the same as it is now. This is what Don Brash is proposing. P and crack cocaine are irrelevant to this discussion. If you have a teenager going through the experimenting stage would you rather have it dealt with a civil fine or a criminal record for life?

Does the harm that marijuana does to society justify the the costs both financial & social, of maintianing the status quo? Especially in light of the known harm/costs of other drugs which are not illegal.

I think not.

[slofox]

Quote from Rosemary McLeod in this morning's paper re Mr Brash...


"If this is what he's like when he's straight...imagine what he'd come up with if he did get stoned!"

:rofl::wings::killingme:doobey:

[Brett]

Fair enough call.



Can you provide a reference of authority on that ? :shutup:

Cheeky bastard. No I can't. :shit:

[Brett]

Even 1 glass of alcohol can affect your judgement. You can put as much marijuana in a joint as you wish, to obtain whatever affect you require, you can also have a single drag to the point where there is no loss of mental cognition. A line of cocaine doesn't leave the user in a mentally impaired state...

When was the last time someone took a drag on a joint because they liked the taste of the smoke? I would assume 99.9% of pot smokers do so for the effect. I, and many people I know, will have a glass or two of wine or a beer or two with dinner or at the end of the day with no intention of getting wasted (or anything close to it).
You can argue semantics on this all day, yes one *could* take such a small toke as to create no effect, and yes, there are those that will be leg-less after a single drink, but neither of these would constitute the norm.

[scissorhands]

Same old shit, most of these government education links go nowhere, or the educational material is unavailable, or costs like $70 for a 140 page pdf file...

http://www.druginfo.nsw.gov.au/illicit_drugs/cannabis_%28marijuana%29/cannabis_links

so, the only education for the young is
unbelievable anti dope from religious or corrupted nut jobs
or pro dope from drug addicted nut jobs

poor kids get dumb shit from both sides....even in a decriminalised environment like Oz

[jazfender]

The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

I agree but they are used in different social contexts. You typically don't have a J with dinner, at least not in (loosely defined) western culture.

Weed isn't a social drug in the same sense as alcohol.

You could also argue that some illegal drugs GAIN mental cognition. But that's another thread.

[scissorhands]

When was the last time someone took a drag on a joint because they liked the taste of the smoke? I would assume 99.9% of pot smokers do so for the effect. I, and many people I know, will have a glass or two of wine or a beer or two with dinner or at the end of the day with no intention of getting wasted (or anything close to it).
You can argue semantics on this all day, yes one *could* take such a small toke as to create no effect, and yes, there are those that will be leg-less after a single drink, but neither of these would constitute the norm.

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

I didnt have cannabis for 3 days, then last night went out and had a small/moderate amount. I will have none again till I socialize with friends in the next few days.

I got friends with government jobs like police and fire service who have a bit at parties, or when they go the beach with mates

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite

[imdying]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine thenThat's not fair, what about a Midori cocktail with dessert? Fruit juice simply doesn't have the same taste.

He's a bit wrong too though... where does it say that you're not allowed to enjoy getting drunk (not meaning pissing yourself drunk either) or getting high? He says people do it specifically to get high, like it's some sort of crime against humanity or something.

[oneofsix]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

I didnt have cannabis for 3 days, then last night went out and had a small/moderate amount. I will have none again till I socialize with friends in the next few days.

I got friends with government jobs like police and fire service who have a bit at parties, or when they go the beach with mates

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite

Nooo don't follow his advice Brett. Obviously he has tried drinking grape juice or he would already know it tastes nothing like wine. Scissors must still be coming down off his high, nope that can't be right as he is too agro for that. :laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite

Your argument falls short here. You must not drink??? but wine & grape juice taste completely different & wine come's in MANY different flavours it's not just "wine".

[scissorhands]

NORML President Phil Saxby has applauded the Auckland Mayoral Forum’s decision not to go ahead with the government’s proposed Party Central venue, arguing that instead of promoting alcohol at “Party Central”, the government should listen to Auckland's many cannabis-smoking rugby fans.

Mr Saxby has written to the Cabinet arguing that cannabis should be regulated in time for the Rugby World Cup in order to decrease alcohol violence during World Cup parties.

"We need to learn from Portugal's experience. They openly permitted cannabis use during the European World Cup and it was a success: there was far less violence. Portugal’s drug laws since 2001 have regulated all drug use through a non-Court process called Commissions of Dissuasion, with greatly improved health results."

Mr Saxby was referring to the Euro 2004 tournament between France and England. Branded as 'hooligans', 50,000 fans - notorious for their drunken antics and ability to instigate all-out riots - descended upon Lisbon. Rather than ban alcohol, the authorities decided instead to sanction cannabis use by English and French fans before the game. The police priority was alcohol. As a result, the match took place without incident, even in the immediate aftermath of England's 2-1 defeat.

"At least 400,000 New Zealanders currently smoke cannabis. It's a part of rugby culture in New Zealand and NORML believes the sanctioning of cannabis use at big sporting events like this is an efficient way to cut down on over-the-top drunken behaviour", Phil Saxby said.

"NORML will be reminding the Cabinet of Portugal’s successful experiment, every time there is an outbreak of alcohol-fuelled violence; whether it be sporting events or New Years gatherings," warns Phil Saxby.

Refer: Guardian story below:

www.guardian.co.uk

It's OK to smoke dope, England fans told

* Paul Kelso in Lisbon
* The Guardian, Friday 11 June 2004 09.42 BST

Portuguese police officers will turn a blind eye to England supporters who openly smoke cannabis during Euro 2004, having decided that a stoned crowd is easier to control than a drunk one.

Lisbon police confirmed yesterday that England fans will not be arrested for puffing on joints on the streets of the Portuguese capital, following a recommendation from the Dutch authorities responsible for policing the English during Euro 2000.

Four years ago England's match in Eindhoven, ironically against Portugal, passed off peacefully as many supporters took advantage of the Netherlands' liberal drugs laws. By contrast the game against Germany in the Belgian town of Charleroi was marred by violence, much of it fuelled by alcohol.

Portugal has similarly relaxed legislation to the Dutch and the authorities hope it will help them police the 50,000 supporters expected to arrive in the country in the next few days.

Possession of small amounts of cannabis is not illegal in Portugal but, technically, consumption is. However, having liaised with the Dutch, police will not act except in extreme circumstances.

Isabel Canelas, a spokeswoman for the Portuguese police, said cannabis would be a low priority during the tournament. "Everyone knows that here everyone can smoke. The police are doing another kind of job and their priorities are different.

"We won't be hiding behind doors waiting for someone to smoke a joint. We have to use common sense. If people are smoking but not kicking each other, not beating each other, and not making a problem, why on earth would an officer go and ask 'Is that cannabis?'

"If you are quietly smoking and a police officer is 10 metres away, what's the big risk in your behaviour? I'm not going to tap you on the shoulder and ask 'What are you smoking?' if you are posing no menace to others. Our priority is alcohol.

"Of course, if people cause a problem through using drugs and become a menace to others, police will be expected to take action. It would be totally different when a police officer realises there's someone trying to sell."

Visitors to Lisbon do not have to try too hard to buy the drug. The city does not have "coffee shops" in the Dutch style, but tourists are likely to be offered cannabis by street vendors.

Organisers have not restricted the amount of alcohol on sale during the tournament despite the Football Association's concerns. Beer costs just 66p a glass and will be freely available around stadiums and at big screen locations.

Eindhoven police spokesman Johann Beelan said cannabis was a positive influence on public order at Euro 2000. "Cannabis ... was part of the conditions which meant everyone had a good time," he said.

British police estimated around 3,000 English supporters had arrived in Portugal by last night, but there have been no reports of disorder and no arrests.

See also:

www.theage.com.au

and www.guardian.co.uk

Letter to Hon Simon Power

Dear Mr Power

Regulate Cannabis in time for Rugby World Cup

First, NORML wishes to record its regret that government Ministers have reacted so negatively to the well-researched and sensible report from the Law Commission on the Misuse of Drugs Act, apparently before even reading it. NORML members expected more from a government that poses as an opponent of the “Nanny State”. We look forward to public debate on improving our drug laws, and will urge a more flexible approach in accordance with the views of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime.

In particular, we call on the government to regulate access to cannabis for personal use in time for the Rugby World Cup in order to decrease alcohol violence during World Cup parties.

We need to learn from Portugal's experience, documented in the attached article. That country openly permitted cannabis use during the 2004 European World Cup and it was a success: there was far less violence as a result.

Please note that Portugal’s drug laws since 2001 have regulated all drug use through a non-Court process called Commissions of Dissuasion, with greatly improved health results.

The Euro-2004 tournament between France and England provides us with a valuable lesson in preparation for the Rugby World Cup. Among the 50,000 fans were many British football 'hooligans' - notorious for their drunken antics and ability to instigate all-out riots – who descended upon Lisbon. Rather than ban alcohol, the authorities decided instead to sanction cannabis use by English and French fans before the game. The police priority was alcohol. As a result, the match took place without incident, even in the immediate aftermath of England's 2-1 defeat.

I attach web references for your further information.

At least 400,000 New Zealanders currently smoke cannabis. It's a part of rugby culture in New Zealand and NORML believes the sanctioning of cannabis use at big sporting events like this is an efficient way to cut down on over-the-top drunken behaviour.

NORML will be reminding the Cabinet of Portugal’s successful experiment, every time there is an outbreak of alcohol-fuelled violence; whether it be sporting events or New Year gatherings.

Kind Regards

Phil Saxby

[oneofsix]

shit must have missed all those stories about World Cup violence. Unless scissors means on the field in which case they are allowed neither alcohol nor cannabis.

[scissorhands]

shit must have missed all those stories about World Cup violence. Unless scissors means on the field in which case they are allowed neither alcohol nor cannabis.

Eindhoven police spokesman Johann Beelan said cannabis was a positive influence on public order at Euro 2000. "Cannabis ... was part of the conditions which meant everyone had a good time," he said.

[imdying]

Kind Regards

Phil SaxbyI think that says a lot more about booze than dope. Interesting read none the less.

[imdying]

shit must have missed all those stories about World Cup violence.They didn't ban booze.

[Brett]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

I didnt have cannabis for 3 days, then last night went out and had a small/moderate amount. I will have none again till I socialize with friends in the next few days.

I got friends with government jobs like police and fire service who have a bit at parties, or when they go the beach with mates

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite
If I look like a hypocrite, so be it. I'm no soft cock that it is going to make me weep. Attack me all you like, but the fact remains, if pot were not used for it's effects, the issue of its legality/illegality would not exist. I do sometimes have a few more drinks than I technically should, nothing wrong with that, and I am not against people who like a few drinks every now and again. I AM against the pathetic drinking culture that is pervasive in this country (and many others) that lead to all kinds of violence, crime and social disorder and one of my issue with legalising pot (not decriminalisation) is that by allowing its use, there will be an increase in its use. The last thing we need is more high as a kite, fucked up clowns causing more social damage like we already have with alcohol and putting more strain on already limited medical and legal resources.

This debate is largely pointless. A bill to decriminalise pot will take a very long time to get traction, if it ever does. It has not even been proposed as a bill, simply stated by one (moronic) politician as his personal view. No wonder Don Brash failed as leader of National.

[scissorhands]

Fair enough mate. I know your coming from a good place, I just think your badly informed

[Mad-V2]

I suppose all info in this clip is unfounded bullshit too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIBlt88pZP4&feature=related

[Scuba_Steve]

I suppose all info in this clip is unfounded bullshit too.


Half of it yes :yes: but not all

I would call this the "hard left" argument to the "hard right" both are their to push an agenda & both contain bullshit laced with truth

[imdying]

<img src="http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Dave/comicweed3.png" />

[Brett]

Fair enough mate. I know your coming from a good place, I just think your badly informed

You might call it badly informed, I would call it "otherwised informed". Our different experiences condition us to see things differently and the people who surround us alter our views too.
My immediate circle of family and friends is made up of doctors, nurses, police, teachers - all people who see the tragic side of drug abuse (and I include alcohol here) and have to deal with the effects of it. This includes individuals who have literally lost their marbles and their grip on reality due to drug use and have become severe risks to society and who are incredibly likely to severely harm or kill others (and who wish to).
I have personally had a drug addict try and run me over and try and stab me more than once. So yeah, this would cause me to see things differently.

[Mad-V2]

Was the drug addict who tried running you down addicted to cannabis?

[mashman]

When was the last time someone took a drag on a joint because they liked the taste of the smoke? I would assume 99.9% of pot smokers do so for the effect. I, and many people I know, will have a glass or two of wine or a beer or two with dinner or at the end of the day with no intention of getting wasted (or anything close to it).
You can argue semantics on this all day, yes one *could* take such a small toke as to create no effect, and yes, there are those that will be leg-less after a single drink, but neither of these would constitute the norm.

I like the taste and smell of marijuana... just like some might like the taste and smell of a cigar. As I've said before, marijuana is as much of a social substance as alcohol, and groups of people often share a joint or 2 with no intention of getting wasted (or anything close to it)... hard as that may be to believe, it happens.

We could argue semantics all day... so you agree that you can manage both alcohol and marijuana affects by limiting/maximising how you use it. That should be the end of the "argument" then?

[Brett]

Was the drug addict who tried running you down addicted to cannabis?

Was one of the drugs, yes, but also was a meth user. Schizophrenia has proven links with cannabis use.

Researchers in New Zealand found that those who used cannabis by the age of 15 were more than three times (300%) more likely to develop illnesses such as schizophrenia. Other research has backed this up, showing that cannabis use increases the risk of psychosis by up to 700% for heavy users, and that the risk increases in proportion to the amount of cannabis used (smoked or consumed). Additionally, the younger a person smokes/uses cannabis, the higher the risk for schizophrenia, and the worse the schizophrenia is when the person does develop it. Research by psychiatrists in inner-city areas speak of cannabis being a factor in up to 80 percent of schizophrenia cases.

Professor Robin Murray (London Institute of Psychiatry) has recently (2005) completed a 15-year study of more than 750 adolescents in conjunction with colleagues at King's College London and the University of Otago in New Zealand.

Overall people were 4.5 times more likely to be schizophrenic at 26 if they were regular cannabis smokers at 15, compared to 1.65 times for those who did not report regular use until age 18.

Many researchers now believe that using the drug while the brain is still developing boosts levels of the chemical dopamine in the brain, which can directly lead to schizophrenia. Otago University.

[Brett]

We could argue semantics all day... so you agree that you can manage both alcohol and marijuana affects by limiting/maximising how you use it. That should be the end of the "argument" then?

Yes. If people moderated their use of both alcohol and pot responsibly, I don't feel that there would be much of an issue here. Most people don't, and that is the problem. Sharing a joint on a Saturday night with a few mates is nothing like smoking a whole joint yourself and worse, doing so every day.

[mashman]

Half of it yes :yes: but not all

I would call this the "hard left" argument to the "hard right" both are their to push an agenda & both contain bullshit laced with truth

Which half?

heh heh... vewy twue

[Brett]

who ever red repped me saying to see hightimes.com...I did. Bit of a hap-hazard website IMO. Designed by stoners for stoners, but I guess you work with the demographic.

[mashman]

Yes. If people moderated their use of both alcohol and pot responsibly, I don't feel that there would be much of an issue here. Most people don't, and that is the problem. Sharing a joint on a Saturday night with a few mates is nothing like smoking a whole joint yourself and worse, doing so every day.

So education is the problem, not use or the availability of the substances?

Heh, as for sharing with friends, :shifty: doesn't that depend on how much you take and how well you know the bud that you're smoking? as you said earlier, semantics... but I'm always after someantics :innocent:

[Brett]

So education is the problem, not use or the availability of the substances?

Heh, as for sharing with friends, :shifty: doesn't that depend on how much you take and how well you know the bud that you're smoking? as you said earlier, semantics... but I'm always after someantics :innocent:

Smart arse :innocent:

You're taking the arguement into another dimension. Education is the problem, yes. But if we can't get it right with booze, what are the chances with another substance thrown into the mix? We don't need more social carnage to try and mitigate while people 'get educated'. All will happen is that potheads with addiction problems will join the line with the alcoholics, as I said before, thus putting more drain on our medical and legal resources while decreasing their productive input into society. Walking around with dreads, unshaven, barefoot and in a David Baine jersey saying "peace man" and handing out flowers does not consitute being productive. (Ok...so I am being facetious with that last bit...)

[superman]

Yes. If people moderated their use of both alcohol and pot responsibly, I don't feel that there would be much of an issue here. Most people don't, and that is the problem. Sharing a joint on a Saturday night with a few mates is nothing like smoking a whole joint yourself and worse, doing so every day.

Therefore decriminilize and then over educate on the negatives. Like we do with smoking now! :yes:

No matter how bad smoking is for you I'd never think that it should be a banned substance. People should just be as educated as they can on the matter, if they aren't easily educated then we have a bit of a win-win towards the gene pool.

[mashman]

Smart arse :innocent:

You're taking the arguement into another dimension. Education is the problem, yes. But if we can't get it right with booze, what are the chances with another substance thrown into the mix? We don't need more social carnage to try and mitigate while people 'get educated'. All will happen is that potheads with addiction problems will join the line with the alcoholics, as I said before, thus putting more drain on our medical and legal resources while decreasing their productive input into society. Walking around with dreads, unshaven, barefoot and in a David Baine jersey saying "peace man" and handing out flowers does not consitute being productive. (Ok...so I am being facetious with that last bit...)

:rofl:... meh, it's just a side of the "argument" eh.

Ugh... once again. Both substances are currently available and both substances are currently used and abused. So the argument that decriminalisation is like ringing the dinner bell is a nothing more than propoganda. As well as potheads all of a sudden becoming worse potheads :facepalm:.

You can educate someone til the cows come home, but at the end of the day, they will make their own decisions as to how far to puch it. Some like to experiment :innocent: to find that limit. Fortunately my parents didn't shun me from the household, but allowed the use because they could keep an eye on us. I understand that attitude and will employ it in the future should the need arise.

Anyhoo... your idea of education and mine will be light years apart. I would expect the police as well as drug addicts would pay a visit to schools and explain every side of the argument that they can in a morning session, yes all morning. Pupils will be able to ask questions... the afternoon session (now don't freak out :rofl:), I would like to see parents accompany the police and drug addicts, whilst their children partake in some form of marijuana ingestion. The whole place may erupt with laughter, some may puke, some may panic and freak out vowing never to do it again... get the pupils to discuss their observations, feelings etc... end the day with everyone a little wiser and hopefully a little more educated.

:rofl:@ the way you view society. Why aren't there people out in the streets everyday, staggering around everywhere, puking all over the place, picking fights with passers by litering the streets with empty cans of the strongest lager they can stomach, handing out punches like they;re going out of fashion screaming what the fuk you lookin at man??? ... perhaps they do it in their cars instead :shit:. Is there rally that much of a difference between a smoke and a drink?

[Mad-V2]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?
As for smoking it purely for the affect, there are alot of people who love the taste and smell of weed. The same could be said for booze, how many do you know will sit at home and have a glass of straight tequila because they simply love the taste?
How many tobacco smokers do you know that have smoked most of their life still smoke because they still love the taste of tobacco?
Cannabis is not addictive, it is habitual. Tobacco is addictive, legal, making the government a shitoad of money and killing all it's users the same as alcohol. So why are those things legal? because they make the country more money. What other uses apart from fuelling vehicles and removing paint does alcohol have? We already know hemp is used in alot of applications all over the world and cannabis has been proved to help in some forms of illness.
I had my tongue pierced when I was 18 (dumb shit) and no amount of pain relief would take the pain away. I had some evil cannabis and the pain disappeared as if my tongue had been pierced all my life.
Recently someone I know had their remaining 14 teeth pulled and cannabis works better for him as a pain relief than the meds he was given by the dentist, he feels no pain in his mouth now and can eat proper food.
It's not an evil drug, it's the dumb laws, brainwashed old school generation and drug dealers that make it evil.

[husaberg]

Ummmmm speeding is not a criminal offense. I have been convicted of speeding. I do not have a criminal record.



Ummmm, isn't that the point of this little debate?




This guy pretty much says it all....


Does the harm that marijuana does to society justify the the costs both financial & social, of maintianing the status quo? Especially in light of the known harm/costs of other drugs which are not illegal.

I think not.
[QUOTE=Clockwork;1130164663]Ummmmm speeding is not a criminal offense. I have been convicted of speeding. I do not have a criminal record.
Speeding is against the law so is smoking Dope.

See, we can both split infinities.
Ummmm, isn't that the point of this little debate?
Yes this is the point but this debate is pointless because If you want dope decriminalized vote for it. If you don't vote for a party that doesn't support decriminalizing it. There are obviously some firmly intrenched ideals at stake here.

If you guys who smoke dope or who support the decriminalizing it are such a majority as you claim to be it shouldn't be a problem to vote for a party that supports a change and win with a landslide. Or at the least get enough signatures to force a referendum on the matter.

[mashman]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?

Unfortunately the Schiz is real... all too real. I had a friend, read had as passed away, who moved away from everyone and would go for anyone who came through his door, including his family. Now I'm not saying it was his marijuana use, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out... we used to smoke, A LOT! He was one of the most gentle souls I had ever met, anyone had ever met. Had everything going for him, played guitar, got the hot chicks etc... but in the end... meh, who knows what finally did him in, he really didn't make much sense towards the end. My final image of him was of him sitting by a radiator, knees folded to his chest and in some other world. It still brings tears to my eyes. But people become Schiz for entirely different reasons... fortunately, the numbers are low and no amount of legislation is going to stop people from taking stuff that they want to take.

Edit: for the record, he was 22.

[Mad-V2]

Whats the numbers? 1 in 4 have a mental illness? I know what your saying but the brain is very complicated and triggers to mental illness can simply come from the food we eat.

[Edbear]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?
As for smoking it purely for the affect, there are alot of people who love the taste and smell of weed. The same could be said for booze, how many do you know will sit at home and have a glass of straight tequila because they simply love the taste?
How many tobacco smokers do you know that have smoked most of their life still smoke because they still love the taste of tobacco?
Cannabis is not addictive, it is habitual. Tobacco is addictive, legal, making the government a shitoad of money and killing all it's users the same as alcohol. So why are those things legal? because they make the country more money. What other uses apart from fuelling vehicles and removing paint does alcohol have? We already know hemp is used in alot of applications all over the world and cannabis has been proved to help in some forms of illness.
I had my tongue pierced when I was 18 (dumb shit) and no amount of pain relief would take the pain away. I had some evil cannabis and the pain disappeared as if my tongue had been pierced all my life.
Recently someone I know had their remaining 14 teeth pulled and cannabis works better for him as a pain relief than the meds he was given by the dentist, he feels no pain in his mouth now and can eat proper food.
It's not an evil drug, it's the dumb laws, brainwashed old school generation and drug dealers that make it evil.

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

Any talk of medicinal benefits is simply an attempt to justify using it as a recreational drug. Dope has been probably more thoroughly investigated than any other drug and the only supporters, are as I said, the ones smoking it for pleasure.

[mashman]

Whats the numbers? 1 in 4 have a mental illness? I know what your saying but the brain is very complicated and triggers to mental illness can simply come from the food we eat.

I agree, it could have been anything... but that doesn't mean I'll rule out the drug usage.

[mashman]

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

Any talk of medicinal benefits is simply an attempt to justify using it as a recreational drug. Dope has been probably more thoroughly investigated than any other drug and the only supporters, are as I said, the ones smoking it for pleasure.

:rofl:, not everyone that supports it "smokes" it, that's just an out and out over exaggeration. The majority probably, but not everyone.

I know you research things Ed... Have you researched medical marijuana? Are the beneficial claims that are made, especially in the arena of Cancer fraudulent?

[blackdog]

Unfortunately the Schiz is real... all too real. I had a friend, read had as passed away, who moved away from everyone and would go for anyone who came through his door, including his family. Now I'm not saying it was his marijuana use, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out... we used to smoke, A LOT! He was one of the most gentle souls I had ever met, anyone had ever met. Had everything going for him, played guitar, got the hot chicks etc... but in the end... meh, who knows what finally did him in, he really didn't make much sense towards the end. My final image of him was of him sitting by a radiator, knees folded to his chest and in some other world. It still brings tears to my eyes. But people become Schiz for entirely different reasons... fortunately, the numbers are low and no amount of legislation is going to stop people from taking stuff that they want to take.

Edit: for the record, he was 22.

I have a friend in very similar circumstances. He might be 1 in 1000 but the weed definitely doesn't agree with him. One puff and he would end up in the psych ward for a month it affected him so badly. I remember a conversation I had with one of his doctors and him telling me that if it wasn't for pot 2/3 of the patients wouldn't be in there. What he also remarked on was the effects of alcohol and how it was far more insideous, damage from which cost the health system much more, and left some with far greater health issues.

He also acknowledged that for many the use of cannibis was in fact the much better choice of the two, and from a medicinal point of view can be used to treat more than one condition (including psychiatric) far better than any other available drug.

As for my mate, he sticks to booze and the odd E nowadays and is happy as a pig in the proverbial.

This does not make weed a bad thing that all should be forced to avoid however.

There are far more people who are allergic to penicillin, does that mean we should outlaw antibiotics?

[jazfender]

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

As mentioned, there is medical marijuana.

But also, drug companies can't sell something that's illegal.

[Edbear]

:rofl:, not everyone that supports it "smokes" it, that's just an out and out over exaggeration. The majority probably, but not everyone.

I know you research things Ed... Have you researched medical marijuana? Are the beneficial claims that are made, especially in the arena of Cancer fraudulent?


As mentioned, there is medical marijuana.

But also, drug companies can't sell something that's illegal.

Of course there is medical usage of it, and yes, I do a lot of study and research. I fully support all research into the medicinal properties of plants and wish there were more into many of the traditiopnal medicines by indigenous populations of many countries.

Drug companies don't need to sell anything illegal as if they extract the ingredients and isolate the beneficial properties, developing a medicinal drug it would be simply going through the normal testing and approval processess in place.

What the drug companies are looking for, is not only medical effectiveness but also cost effectiveness and whether there is a similar drug that does the same job already in wide use. They are continuing to explore the medical possibilities of Cannabis and other plants and are far more objective than recreational users ever could be.

My point here is that the ones who are most vocal and biased towards Cannabis are those who smoke it for recreation and want it legalised for that purpose. They are not interested in whether there is an effective alternative or in the medical properties as separated from the whole plant.

[mashman]

As for my mate, he sticks to booze and the odd E nowadays and is happy as a pig in the proverbial.


:rofl: discoooooo biscuits... ahhh the days. Good on 'im for getting looked at, probably saved his life. There's something to be said for a little experimentation to find out what works for ya in your recreation time.

[Teflon]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RX_Wuvya0iU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:sunny:

[mashman]

Of course there is medical usage of it, and yes, I do a lot of study and research. I fully support all research into the medicinal properties of plants and wish there were more into many of the traditiopnal medicines by indigenous populations of many countries.

Drug companies don't need to sell anything illegal as if they extract the ingredients and isolate the beneficial properties, developing a medicinal drug it would be simply going through the normal testing and approval processess in place.

What the drug companies are looking for, is not only medical effectiveness but also cost effectiveness and whether there is a similar drug that does the same job already in wide use. They are continuing to explore the medical possibilities of Cannabis and other plants and are far more objective than recreational users ever could be.

My point here is that the ones who are most vocal and biased towards Cannabis are those who smoke it for recreation and want it legalised for that purpose. They are not interested in whether there is an effective alternative or in the medical properties as separated from the whole plant.

Ya see, the funny thing is the indigenous didn't have the same methods of delivery. What makes you think that taking any property from any plant and creating a synthetic version is any better than using the plant in the same way the indigenous used to... which was what? How did they seperate the good properties from the bad?

So I only want it legalised so I can smoke it? Whilst that's a part truth, similar to someone having a beer, or a glass of wine (or disco biscuit), and whilst marijuana is widely acknowledged as being less detrimental to society than alcohol, and whilst I may well, by default, be medicating myself, surely that can only be for the benefit of society as a whole? Me working that is, me not being ill, me not getting pissed out of my tiny mind when I want to get "wasted" and doing things I will not only regret but quite possibly have no memory of and could possibly kill myself doing... the lesser of 2 evils? Why shouldn't I be allowed to?

Are you pro-alcohol?

[Scuba_Steve]

Unfortunately the Schiz is real... all too real. I had a friend, read had as passed away, who moved away from everyone and would go for anyone who came through his door, including his family. Now I'm not saying it was his marijuana use, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out... we used to smoke, A LOT! He was one of the most gentle souls I had ever met, anyone had ever met. Had everything going for him, played guitar, got the hot chicks etc... but in the end... meh, who knows what finally did him in, he really didn't make much sense towards the end. My final image of him was of him sitting by a radiator, knees folded to his chest and in some other world. It still brings tears to my eyes. But people become Schiz for entirely different reasons... fortunately, the numbers are low and no amount of legislation is going to stop people from taking stuff that they want to take.

Edit: for the record, he was 22.


I have a friend in very similar circumstances. He might be 1 in 1000 but the weed definitely doesn't agree with him. One puff and he would end up in the psych ward for a month it affected him so badly. I remember a conversation I had with one of his doctors and him telling me that if it wasn't for pot 2/3 of the patients wouldn't be in there. What he also remarked on was the effects of alcohol and how it was far more insideous, damage from which cost the health system much more, and left some with far greater health issues.

He also acknowledged that for many the use of cannibis was in fact the much better choice of the two, and from a medicinal point of view can be used to treat more than one condition (including psychiatric) far better than any other available drug.

As for my mate, he sticks to booze and the odd E nowadays and is happy as a pig in the proverbial.

This does not make weed a bad thing that all should be forced to avoid however.

There are far more people who are allergic to penicillin, does that mean we should outlaw antibiotics?

I can back up those skitzo claims, I've had a couple of mates whom bounce in & out because of the dope, or at-least thats the only thing that changed pre & post skitzo



If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

Any talk of medicinal benefits is simply an attempt to justify using it as a recreational drug. Dope has been probably more thoroughly investigated than any other drug and the only supporters, are as I said, the ones smoking it for pleasure.

One thing you do have to consider is drug companies aint only interested in finding something that works, they have a vested interest in making sure you can't get it anywhere else. Simply packaging up say THC in a pill won't cut it, it's effectively available elsewhere at a much cheaper price.

As for it's "medicinal" properties I do believe it has some (like booze) but much of it is placebo effect (which hey if it works so be it) or like your suggesting "exaggerated" for argument.

[Edbear]

Ya see, the funny thing is the indigenous didn't have the same methods of delivery. What makes you think that taking any property from any plant and creating a synthetic version is any better than using the plant in the same way the indigenous used to... which was what? How did they seperate the good properties from the bad?

So I only want it legalised so I can smoke it? Whilst that's a part truth, similar to someone having a beer, or a glass of wine (or disco biscuit), and whilst marijuana is widely acknowledged as being less detrimental to society than alcohol, and whilst I may well, by default, be medicating myself, surely that can only be for the benefit of society as a whole? Me working that is, me not being ill, me not getting pissed out of my tiny mind when I want to get "wasted" and doing things I will not only regret but quite possibly have no memory of and could possibly kill myself doing... the lesser of 2 evils? Why shouldn't I be allowed to?

Are you pro-alcohol?

I doubt you'll find many indigenous people using plants for medicine who mainly use them for recreational mind altering.

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless. I have done objective research from all levels of concern, from the drug companies to the law enforcers and law makers to the health professionals, and it is very clear that smokers are not only risking all the usual types of cancer as with smoking tobacco and chewing betel nut but unlike tobacco, it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible because of the obvious effects on society, but drinking wine or beer, per se, does not carry with it any notable health risks. It is only the excessive consumption that does so. That, naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot. It is not inherently bad for the health.

[blackdog]

and it is very clear that smokers are not only risking all the usual types of cancer as with smoking tobacco and chewing betel nut

No problems there for me. I prefer it in cookie form.

It can also be inhaled through a hydrator that negates that risk.

[husaberg]

All the ideals really rest on solid education of the population and increased awareness of risks. You can see with smoking (which I guess you could loosely classify as a drug due to the stimulation received (no pun intended)) that numbers are decreasing steadily and there are those who still choose to smoke. Do those who still wish to even after knowing all the ill effects not deserve the right to still smoke in their property? And there's always those who might enjoy a cigar 3-4 times a year, nom nom. Should they not be allowed to smoke either?

Whist loosely a stimulant mmmm....I think its the addiction to nicotene rather than the stimulate effect that drives the compulsion for a smoker to smoke.
The tobacco smoking has decreased I believe with better education and controls over use (age) advertising etc but I would say the largest reason is the law reforms around where you can smoke and to a much larger extent the cost which has escalated hugely in the last 20-25 years far ahead of inflation.When I was young I believe the cheapest cigarettes were 1/3 of the miniumim wage /hour/20 pack now they would be on par I guess with the minimum wage/hour some one might be better placed to list the cost but I remember the cheapest When I was a school was either $2 or $3 in 91 Pacific?

What drives a the minority of the NZ population that regularly smokes dope to smoke it. can anyone answer that question?

[Madness]

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless............ it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

I can assure you Ed that it doesn't cause even the slightest amount of paranoia in a large percentile of regular users.


I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible............. naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot.

Much like alcohol, Cannabis use affects different people in different ways. Perhaps a lot of "recreational users" simply feel they deserve the same freedom as a person who consumes alcohol responsibly - when they're having a puff after a hard day's work, probably watching Coro Street in their slippers, :chase: :Police:

[Mad-V2]

The alcohol you buy at the supermarket in front of your children has no beneficial properties that help people in society, medical or otherwise. Yet it is left alone to kill and mame countless people every day of every year around the world. Most people who drink it do so to feel it's affects, otherwise alcohol free beer and wine would be selling 100% better than it does now.
The only thing people don't like about weed is that a large number of people like to have a good time on it. So the fun police decided to outlaw it. But even though you can have fun on it, it can be a very helpful to society in all it's other forms like medicine and even fuel for our vehicles. The current Green clean bio fuel shit is worse than oil in my opinion as it's creating more deforestation and wiping out endangered species.
Why the hell are people so against something that helps in so many ways? Imagine if your average Joe found a way to get stoned off corn, would we ban that too?

[Mad-V2]

Most of the people I know who smoke pot only do so as there is no legal drugs other than alcohol that can give them the same affect, minus the anger, blackouts and car crashes

[mashman]

I doubt you'll find many indigenous people using plants for medicine who mainly use them for recreational mind altering.

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless. I have done objective research from all levels of concern, from the drug companies to the law enforcers and law makers to the health professionals, and it is very clear that smokers are not only risking all the usual types of cancer as with smoking tobacco and chewing betel nut but unlike tobacco, it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible because of the obvious effects on society, but drinking wine or beer, per se, does not carry with it any notable health risks. It is only the excessive consumption that does so. That, naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot. It is not inherently bad for the health.

How do you know they didn't use plants for recreation? And I'd love to have this, marijuana driven, mind altering experience you speak of. How does it alter someone's mind? Paranoia. Is that it? There are plenty of people on this planet that don't "smoke" and suffer from paranoia...

Apparantly Cancer is also genetic, you can get Cancer from household cleaning products, you can get Cancer for no reason whatsoever. Shouldn't I be allowed to take my chances?

No health risk associated with alcohol, other than it can kill you, but only in excess? It can bring on paranoia. You don't have to abuse alcohol to get alcohol poisoning. You don't have to abuse alcohol to destroy your liver. Pretty notable health risks I'd say... but as you say, that varies from person to person... as do the affects of marijuana use and abuse on the user/abuser. If not, I'd truly like to hear why not?

Yet taking marijuana is inherently bad for your health? Smoking is smoking, we're not talking about smoking, there are many other methods. I have by far worse side effects from alcohol than I do from marijuana... and through my use I have found that marijuana offers me health benefits like weight loss and management, a peaceful sleep, snapping management, and a jolly good buzz on occassion (something I can get from taking sleeping pills and not going to sleep :yes:). I derive more out of that plant than alcohol gives me by a long way. Yet I'm not allowed to give myself those benefits, and for no good reason it seems.

[StoneY]

........ but unlike tobacco, it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

What you say about me dude?!!! :angry:


I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible because of the obvious effects on society, but drinking wine or beer, per se, does not carry with it any notable health risks.

Liver disease, alcohol poisoning, bowel cancer...yeah no risk at all huh?
Legal definition of overuse of alcohol is? I don't think here is one...and I aint seen anyone die from overdosing on weed man, happens every month from booze.


It is only the excessive consumption that does so. That, naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot. It is not inherently bad for the health.

Well I disagree with you there I have seen far more social harm from alcohol than any amount of cannabis use..... and one of those substances is legal despite being a PROVEN killer....
Paranoid or dead...big difference Ed and if YOU are claiming alcohol is harmless (other than the over users and I would love to see that factor defined) I suggest you spend some time in a rehab unit interviewing the pot heads that are drying out...

oh wait! There aint any is there?
Maybe you can talk to the drunks then and identify the point where a social drink becomes an addiction for us all huh?

[husaberg]

The only thing people don't like about weed is that a large number of people like to have a good time on it. So the fun police decided to outlaw it. But even though you can have fun on it, it can be a very helpful to society in all it's other forms like medicine and even fuel for our vehicles. The current Green clean bio fuel shit is worse than oil in my opinion as it's creating more deforestation and wiping out endangered species.
Why the hell are people so against something that helps in so many ways? Imagine if your average Joe found a way to get stoned off corn, would we ban that too?

Its called Bourbon isn't it?

With you on the Bio fuel same with the hybrids and Electric cars they cause more pollution esp in Europe.

[mashman]

What you say about me dude?!!! :angry:


whew, thank fuck for that, I thought he was talking about me :innocent:

[Mad-V2]

Its called Bourbon isn't it?

With you on the Bio fuel same with the hybrids and Electric cars they cause more pollution esp in Europe.

I was meaning what if your average Joe found you could get stoned from smoking corn? would we then ban it, remember alcohol is legal.

And the bio fuel shit I'm talking about is the palm oil crap, the stuff that people cut down rainforest's to grow to "save the environment". You know the rainforest's that filter our air and stuff.
And battery powered cars use the power we generate from burning coal which pollutes our air in order to "save the environment"
Hemp can be used in the same way and grows in any climate
But it's a nasty evil illegal weed and should be eradicated aye.

[Scuba_Steve]

If I remember right it's the usefulness of hemp that cause both it & weed to be banned, american cotton industry (& to a lesser extent the tobacco industry) & maybee the paper industry??? were worried about their incomes, weed was the excuse to ban hemp... I'm pretty sure thats how it went anyways (haven't really looked into it to be honest)

[mashman]

If I remember right it's the usefulness of hemp that cause both it & weed to be banned, american cotton industry (& to a lesser extent the tobacco industry) & maybee the paper industry??? were worried about their incomes, weed was the excuse to ban hemp... I'm pretty sure thats how it went anyways (haven't really looked into it to be honest)

me neither, but here's (http://www.thc-ministry.net/untoldstory/hemp_5.html) the first hit (snigger) off of google

Edit: That's an interesting site. Puts a lot of peoples myths in their place... in fact the page after the one linked above goes into some of them... Wonder where they get their info from

[scumdog]

Portugal- legalisation of ALL DRUGS 10 years ago

...

Now THERE'S country going places.:rolleyes:


Mainly down the financial gurgler.

Frikkin drag-addled citizens probably forgot too much shit or just plain couldn't be fucked....lets drop out man..

[mashman]

Now THERE'S country going places.:rolleyes:


Mainly down the financial gurgler.

Frikkin drag-addled citizens probably forgot too much shit or just plain couldn't be fucked....lets drop out man..

Aaaaaand the excuse for Spain, Greece, Italy and Ireland? trip trap trip trap

[Edbear]

Well pardon me, I stand corrected. :facepalm: Obviously the few members here who smoke weed have a far greater knowledge and understanding than such as myself who has spent years in study and research and who just happens to agree with medical experts who have spent years in qualified study on the issue of drugs and their effects.

These qualified scientists and medical researchers along with the medical Drs. and nurses who specialise in and treat addictions and drug disorders really have no clue as to the harmlessness and the medical benefits of smoking dope, do they..?

No, you who smoke dope are so much better qualified to rubbish all and sundry who think that Cannabis is not a good thing... :yes:

[Brett]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?
As for smoking it purely for the affect, there are alot of people who love the taste and smell of weed. The same could be said for booze, how many do you know will sit at home and have a glass of straight tequila because they simply love the taste?
How many tobacco smokers do you know that have smoked most of their life still smoke because they still love the taste of tobacco?
Cannabis is not addictive, it is habitual. Tobacco is addictive, legal, making the government a shitoad of money and killing all it's users the same as alcohol. So why are those things legal? because they make the country more money. What other uses apart from fuelling vehicles and removing paint does alcohol have? We already know hemp is used in alot of applications all over the world and cannabis has been proved to help in some forms of illness.
I had my tongue pierced when I was 18 (dumb shit) and no amount of pain relief would take the pain away. I had some evil cannabis and the pain disappeared as if my tongue had been pierced all my life.
Recently someone I know had their remaining 14 teeth pulled and cannabis works better for him as a pain relief than the meds he was given by the dentist, he feels no pain in his mouth now and can eat proper food.
It's not an evil drug, it's the dumb laws, brainwashed old school generation and drug dealers that make it evil.

Paracetamol dangerous... BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Prolonged daily use *can* have *some* adverse side effects, but unless you overdose on it (which is not exactly easy, it kills you by killing your liver - hepatotoxicity) it's not gonna hurt you.

[Brett]

If I remember right it's the usefulness of hemp that cause both it & weed to be banned, american cotton industry (& to a lesser extent the tobacco industry) & maybee the paper industry??? were worried about their incomes, weed was the excuse to ban hemp... I'm pretty sure thats how it went anyways (haven't really looked into it to be honest)

Hell yeah, hemp is a bloody great resource for textiles, paper etc. No doubt, big industry throw their weight around when it suits them, this includes drug companies.

[mashman]

Well pardon me, I stand corrected. :facepalm: Obviously the few members here who smoke weed have a far greater knowledge and understanding than such as myself who has spent years in study and research and who just happens to agree with medical experts who have spent years in qualified study on the issue of drugs and their effects.

These qualified scientists and medical researchers along with the medical Drs. and nurses who specialise in and treat addictions and drug disorders really have no clue as to the harmlessness and the medical benefits of smoking dope, do they..?

No, you who smoke dope are so much better qualified to rubbish all and sundry who think that Cannabis is not a good thing... :yes:

If that's the line you want to draw, then yes, fuck the lot of them...

To that end I am living proof that I'm not

A) Fucked in the head (you may disagree :shifty:)
B) Riddled with Cancer
C) Suffering from memory loss
D) Suffering from paranoia
E) Dead (hence the living proof)
F) Schiz
G) One-eyed
H) Suffering from any side effects of Marijuana
I) Addicted to anything (ok tobacco)
J) Suffering from any drug disorder

Now that either makes me a walking miracle, or someone is wrong somewhere.

Is there anything else that you'd like to tell me that I'm supposed to have because of my Cannabis use?

[blackdog]

Paracetamol dangerous... BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Prolonged daily use *can* have *some* adverse side effects, but unless you overdose on it (which is not exactly easy, it kills you by killing your liver - hepatotoxicity) it's not gonna hurt you.

Not that hard either.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042947/Woman-25-dies-paracetamol-overdose-self-medicating-Lemsip-cough-medicine-pills-cold.html

[Brett]

Not that hard either.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042947/Woman-25-dies-paracetamol-overdose-self-medicating-Lemsip-cough-medicine-pills-cold.html

*downed a daily cocktail* - she mixed drugs.

And yes, I bet you I could find some poor fucker mauled to death by sheep somewhere in the world, or some clown who died from farting in a small room with the door closed while asleep. Does that mean that sheep and farts are inherently dangerous?

[husaberg]

I was meaning what if your average Joe found you could get stoned from smoking corn? would we then ban it, remember alcohol is legal.

And the bio fuel shit I'm talking about is the palm oil crap, the stuff that people cut down rainforest's to grow to "save the environment". You know the rainforest's that filter our air and stuff.
And battery powered cars use the power we generate from burning coal which pollutes our air in order to "save the environment"
Hemp can be used in the same way and grows in any climate
But it's a nasty evil illegal weed and should be eradicated aye.

As before with youon biofuel being dirty not on the hemp as the land to grow it on could feed people. not be cut down to further pollute the environmentCanbis instead of Palm oil no same result. Biofuel and electric cars pollute on the whole more than traditional fuels .


for my pro decriminalization guys and girls some other stats from Portugal

Note the deaths with positive toxicology for cannabis and yes Mashman the rates of HIV in Portugal have decreased remarkably in Portugal in drug users since decriminalization faster in fact than non drug users but there seems to be no figures for after 2006 and all the trends are heading up for crime and everything else so its not all rosy in decriminalize land.