Gravel riding?

[Hmmm]

I've ridden over a fair amount of gravel and other interesting roads over the years but always as a tourer with luggage and a pillion. Recently bought a DR650 to have a bit of fun by myself and have just been introduced to standing up :yes: I clearly have to readjust my foot/hand position and shift the controls downwards a little but the question I have is should I drop the footpegs or raise the bars? Clearly going to be easier to raise the bars but somehow I feel as though I need to be lower on the bike?? Is there a recommended stand up position which will then be adjusted to suit the individual. Advice please.

[thepom]

Raise the bars,.......and adjust controls to suit,when I first started gravel riding I never stood up but you have so much more control standing........

[Oscar]

I've been an off road rider since Moses was in short pants, and I never stand up when riding on gravel. I might get myself back on the seat in deep gravel or sand, so as to unweight the front, but standing up on gravel? Nah.

[ducatijim]

I've been an off road rider since Moses was in short pants, and I never stand up when riding on gravel. I might get myself back on the seat in deep gravel or sand, so as to unweight the front, but standing up on gravel? Nah.

+1, well said that man.:yes:

[Motu]

I've been an off road rider since Moses was in short pants, and I never stand up when riding on gravel. I might get myself back on the seat in deep gravel or sand, so as to unweight the front, but standing up on gravel? Nah.

I'm with Oscar too,I'll only stand up if the gravel road turns to some shit that's more off road than road. Check out flattrackers - you won't see them stand up when sideways at 160kph.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've been an off road rider since Moses was in short pants, and I never stand up when riding on gravel. I might get myself back on the seat in deep gravel or sand, so as to unweight the front, but standing up on gravel? Nah.


I'm with Oscar too,I'll only stand up if the gravel road turns to some shit that's more off road than road. Check out flattrackers - you won't see them stand up when sideways at 160kph.

Stay seated!!!

[pete-blen]

I've been an off road rider since Moses was in short pants, and I never stand up when riding on gravel. I might get myself back on the seat in deep gravel or sand, so as to unweight the front, but standing up on gravel? Nah.

just got back into bikes after a long holiday...
seen the vids/ heard the talk....
tryed it..but it just dosn't feel right..
practice practice practice maybe ?..
Its good to give yer ass a rest from a hard seat..

keep yer ass on the seat till the bumps tell yer other wise..

[Box'a'bits]

Depends on the gravel, the bike & the tyres. Hardpack I sit. Anytime things get loose, or I struggle for front end grip, then I stand. Makes shifting weight around a hell of a lot easier. I ride a bigger bike, & its set up to make things comfortable for me to stand. I am not an aggressive rider.

I've noticed that when others that I ride with have experimented, & have then set up their bikes for standing, they tend to ride faster too.

Lower pegs, higher bars (& controls somewhat rotated forward), & a higher seat (to ease the transition from sitting to standing) all help.

[Padmei]

Ok that's pretty well sorted. Now ask about going real off road including water crossings & standing & sitting:innocent:

[Night Falcon]

Standing or sitting depends on how fast you ride (Mark Coma stands a lot) what your riding on and how aggressive your pushing it. I like to stand alot cos I like to get the rear end of the 690 swinging like a drunk gogo dancer....hummm maybe thats why I go through so many rear tires:whocares: but everyone likes their poridge cooked differently....single track stand where possible...except when overhanging tree branches forbid it :facepalm:

[Shewolf]

:corn: :corn:


Ok that's pretty well sorted. Now ask about going real off road including water crossings & standing & sitting:innocent:

[Box'a'bits]

Ok that's pretty well sorted. Now ask about going real off road including water crossings & standing & sitting:innocent:
Okay. :shutup: I'm going over to watch NordieBoys videos, to see if I can pick up some riding tips. :innocent:

Have you ever noticed that when your riding goes to crap there's always a camera running?

[dino3310]

my fat arse is too heavy to stand so i stay seated till the bumps tell me to stand

[bart]

I almost always stand....until I get over 100kmh, when the wind makes you sit. Standing gives so much more control, and it's quicker to recover from a slide. With weight forward it's easier to control a slide also.

The only time I've found sitting better is with a new, agressive rear tyre. The foot sticky out method seems to work better because the back pushes the front around.

My 2c. :innocent:

[Padmei]

OK gravel gurus.
On small bikes do you lean much on gravel or point with the front & shoot with the throttle?
Do you ride your smaller bikes differently from your big bikes?

[merv]

I'm an old hand like Oscar and Motu and standing up on smooth gravel roads is something I'd never do. Standing up is for rough bumpy tracks or on slippery mud. Think what an enduro rider or a moto-x rider does. Gravel is more like flat track and you don't see those boys standing up.

[Woodman]

I stand a lot now, didn't used to cos it didn't feel like proper motorbike riding. Also depends on the surface and how twisty or rough it is or how much fuel or gear is on board. Also depends on how fast i wanna go. More often than when I am sitting most of my weight is on the pegs in readiness to stand.

[Ocean1]

I've noticed before that the more... mature exponents mostly stay on the seat in gravel. Guys that did their time on bikes with a foot of suspension seem to stand for preference.

Is that looking about right here?

[merv]

Ocean1 from what I've observed its not the suspension travel that differentiates it, but more the weight of the bike - it seems to be the guys on the heavy BMWs and the like that do it as if someone has told them its right, while they ride along on gravel slower than the guys on lighter dirt bikes who go zipping by happily sitting down.

[pete376403]

Standing up makes it easier to bail out when things go wrong.

[michael e]

OK gravel gurus.
On small bikes do you lean much on gravel or point with the front & shoot with the throttle?
Do you ride your smaller bikes differently from your big bikes?

if you all rode ktms you can ride hard albeit big or small bikes:yes::gob:

[warewolf]

:D Somewhere we've heard all this before...

Basically as has been said, it depends on your definition of "gravel". I learned a lot from a trials then enduro champion, so I stand a lot; a fellow professional who came from MX also taught standing, although he preferred a smooth transition to seated under brakes for corners. Speedway riders sit on gravel for the same reason motocross riders stick their legs out: short and predictable track lets them get away with it. Doing either in unpredictable rough conditions is sub-optimal. Standing up gives you more control, but on speedway-smooth gravel you don't necessarily need that much control. (I also ride with one finger on each lever, even when things are gentle enough that I can sit down; perhaps especially then, since I've given up quite a bit of control by not standing, so I want to be able to either brake or clutch it to drain power pretty fast.)

Other advantages of standing up include being able to see further ahead, being able to see more directly what's under your front wheel, being able to use your legs to add to your bike's suspension, and being easier to balance despite the higher C-of-G.

Read Racing Dave's test of the Tiger XC in this month's KIWIRIDER, he explains why he thinks standing up is good, and gives the Tiger points for the ergos being able to be adjusted to suit that.

[bart]

I also find with standing, you always have a 'plan B'. It's so much easier to change direction mid corner, or if you have bail out, at least you're standing when you start going 'off road'. :gob:

[gav24]

I find it doent matter too much, as long as you can shift your weight as and when you need to. For me on the DR650, sitting on smooth fast gravel, standing when it dips and rolls along, so I can adjust quicker to any track changes.
Most of the time I sit in corners and lean the bike more than I do (gravel and worse only, opposite for tarseal), sitting on the edge of the seat a little, head over the bars and foot just off the peg sometimes. This is to push the bike down and not "out" of the corner, so is less likely to slide the front - unless there is a natural berm, then lean over with the bike and nail it!
I'm from a mainly MX background so I probably have my outside elbow up as well - but I've never looked!
The key thing is being in that "Neutral" position most of the time so you can easily lean forwards, backwards left or right.
My Adventure riding "neutral" standing is to have almost straight legs and head up high over the bars,
MX is with bent legs and head down closer to the bars - but still over them.
Enduro is somewhere in between, with head over the bars.
In my flat track racing days, I used to sit down with my head over the bars.
Can you spot the pattern yet... A neutral body position usually involves your head being over the bars ( off road anyway - bit different for road racing but that was another expensive few years of my life!)

Try riding sitting mid seat, with almost straight arms, then try to lean forwards over the front. Even in a straight line on a smooth road you have to pull with your arms, push with your legs, tense your stomach and slide your bum up the seat. - alot to do if you just felt the front twitch a bit, mid turn.
Try again standing up with straight legs, relaxed arms and head over the bars - easy eh?
If it all goes wrong and you want to get to the "recovery position" (sitting at front of seat with head over the bars. See how hard and how long it takes you from the sitting mid seat, straight arms position, compared to the standing up position. - again easy eh?

So in summary, sitting or standing? Too many factors that can change; bike, rider inside leg, terrain, tyres, pillion etc etc So answer is find the best "Neutral Position" and ride relaxed in the knowledge that weight transfer is easy from there, what ever the gravel, mud, road throws at you.

Phew, that was only meant to be a quick response!
(If anyone wants some training let me know - I have experience)

[Pikey]

Phew no wonder you make it look easy:blink: To think all I do is hang on and hope:o

[Hmmm]

Hmmmm, I'll have to digest all of that and then I suppose I'll have to suck it and see:yes:

[Motu]

I still ride trials,and I'm definitely a stand up guy off road - as far as I'm concerned if you sit down you've lost control.

Having ridden every single bike I've owned over 41 years on gravel,I probably have a different take on the subject. The best bikes I've ridden on gravel have been flattrackers,and that is how my current bike is set up - more weight on the front and a lower CG. A fat square section soft front tyre,and lots of trail,knobs are not required,it's the cross section and compound that give the grip. It slides predictably,hooks up and goes. I've experimented riding corners in the thick stuff between the wheel tracks,it's stable as...on or off throttle. Dirt bikes are shit in gravel compared to this thing.

[george formby]

My bike is less "adventure" & more "enthusiastic rambler" so I only stand when I am putting a lot of weight on the front into a corner & going downhill. It gives me better weight compensation & I am quicker on the bars & throttle if the front pushes & I need to slide the back. Non of which is my intention going into a corner....

I recently got back onto a proper dirt bike & because of less weight it feels a lot easier to stay on the seat & stick a foot out through corners, it's a lot more responsive on the throttle too which helps, the front wheel does not do much really, just waggles about when you gas it. The TDM front stays solidly on terra firma & takes a lot more work to get round a slippy corner safely.

I learned to ride on trials bikes so standing feels natural but for most of the time on gravel, unless I'm fanging it & want to slide, it's overkill.

[Devil]

I am relatively inexperienced with gravel (although i've made huge improvements more recently) and ride a big bike 1200GSA. I'm 5'9"/80kg and the bike is 255kg with a full tank.
If it's tight and twisty, definately standing up so I can move my weight on the bike.
If it's flowing and hard packed, sitting down.

I definately travel faster standing up.

Essentially being average height on a very large bike, i cannot move my weight around while sitting to make any sort of difference whatsoever.

Just fitted the Ohlins front shock on the barge, so we'll see if that helps with confidence on hard packed, or corrugated roads.

[Night Falcon]

When i had the 990 I used to stand alot more than I do now, especially in corners as the rear wheel did a lot of the steering :yes: so standing and leaning over the front (to aid front tire grip) while giving it the doctor was magic :gob: since my accident and down sizing to the 690 i tend to ride more MX style in to corners (sitting down forward on the seat, tight line, slow in and power out) I'm still standing a lot but I do mix it up quite a lot as well... I've had to learn (and still learning) to adapt my style to meet my limitations as a rider :blink:

[Motu]

Do you ride your smaller bikes differently from your big bikes?

Small gutless bikes are a lot of fun on gravel,and I ride them much different than a bigger bike. You just ride the tits off them - charging into corners way too fast,getting on the gas real early,just over riding with all they've got to give. An XR200 on gravel is one hell of a fun bike.

Small powerful bikes like a 2 stroke are another story. They fly over the surface and don't get down and bite like a heavier bike...I've always thought of the effect as surfing on gravel.

[Oscar]

Small gutless bikes are a lot of fun on gravel,and I ride them much different than a bigger bike. You just ride the tits off them - charging into corners way too fast,getting on the gas real early,just over riding with all they've got to give. An XR200 on gravel is one hell of a fun bike.

Small powerful bikes like a 2 stroke are another story. They fly over the surface and don't get down and bite like a heavier bike...I've always thought of the effect as surfing on gravel.

Surfing on gravel - I like that.

My 625 was my favorite on gravel. I can't say I stood up much, just crawled all over it, trying to keep it pointed in kinda the right direction - up on the tank and on the brakes into the corner, weight the outside peg at the exit, inside leg out MX style weee.... (actually, I came to the conclusion that the whole sliding on the exit thing was just slowing you down at anything less than ten-tenths).

And you're right about two smokers, I had an enduroised YZ250 that was a weapon in gravel. It chucked rocks almost as far as my 950:innocent:

[george formby]

Small gutless bikes are a lot of fun on gravel,and I ride them much different than a bigger bike. You just ride the tits off them - charging into corners way too fast,getting on the gas real early,just over riding with all they've got to give. An XR200 on gravel is one hell of a fun bike.

Small powerful bikes like a 2 stroke are another story. They fly over the surface and don't get down and bite like a heavier bike...I've always thought of the effect as surfing on gravel.

I concur, i'm getting to grips with a KDX 250 & have spent a bit of time getting it to run properly on a gravel road. Everything is on the throttle, hilarious but you have to keep your wits about you, it only seems to use one wheel at a time.

[Crasherfromwayback]

And you're right about two smokers, I had an enduroised YZ250 that was a weapon in gravel. It chucked rocks almost as far as my 950:innocent:

You wanna see a 500 two stroke or a 450 four stroke roost gravel then...

[george formby]

You wanna see a 500 two stroke or a 450 four stroke roost gravel then...

Lolz! I remember watching the British Enduro champion on a CR 500 years ago, training in one of our favourite forests. :gob::gob::shit: basically. I don't think he had been introduced to gravity. Mentally quick.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Lolz! I remember watching the British Enduro champion on a CR 500 years ago, training in one of our favourite forests. :gob::gob::shit: basically. I don't think he had been introduced to gravity. Mentally quick.

Aye. I've done plenty of Hare Scrambles on KX500's...and when you're following another 500 on fast gravel roads it fucking hurts. They seem to pick up and throw boulders instead of rocks. I actually think the 450 four strokes are even worse.

[george formby]

Aye. I've done plenty of Hare Scrambles on KX500's...and when you're following another 500 on fast gravel roads it fucking hurts. They seem to pick up and throw boulders instead of rocks. I actually think the 450 four strokes are even worse.

Yeah, the gravel in the forest is the size of golf balls. Trees are for hiding behind.

[Oscar]

You wanna see a 500 two stroke or a 450 four stroke roost gravel then...

Nah, I had a 950 Super Enduro for three months...

[Oscar]

Yeah, the gravel in the forest is the size of golf balls. Trees are for hiding behind.

"Forestry Fine Chip"
Still makes me smile..you needed to stand up at speed on that surface.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nah, I had a 950 Super Enduro for three months...

Yeah...I'd not want to be following that.

[pete-blen]

You wanna see a 500 two stroke or a 450 four stroke roost gravel then...

yer need compaire the 450 4 stroke with a 250 2 stroke..
2 strokes:love::love::love::love:... they were the days..
I had a IT465 with a YZ465 top end... A YZ with a wide ratio box..
I chickened out at 155kph:shit:..IT just not designed for those speeds..

[george formby]

yer need compaire the 450 4 stroke with a 250 2 stroke..
2 strokes:love::love::love::love:... they were the days..
I had a IT465 with a YZ465 top end... A YZ with a wide ratio box..
I chickened out at 155kph:shit:..IT just not designed for those speeds..

Standing or sitting? lol

I'm reliving my 2 stroke days after 20 something years & laughing my head off.

[Crasherfromwayback]

yer need compaire the 450 4 stroke with a 250 2 stroke..
2 strokes:love::love::love::love:... they were the days..
I had a IT465 with a YZ465 top end... A YZ with a wide ratio box..
I chickened out at 155kph:shit:..IT just not designed for those speeds..


Standing or sitting? lol

I'm reliving my 2 stroke days after 20 something years & laughing my head off.

KX500 with a 16t front and a 36t rear sprocket = quick at the beach.247539247540

[Oscar]

yer need compaire the 450 4 stroke with a 250 2 stroke..
2 strokes:love::love::love::love:... they were the days..
I had a IT465 with a YZ465 top end... A YZ with a wide ratio box..
I chickened out at 155kph:shit:..IT just not designed for those speeds..

I got a GPS reading of 167kph on the gravel on the Molesworth on my 950Adv.
I was seated at the time....:blink:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I got a GPS reading of 167kph on the gravel on the Molesworth on my 950Adv.
I was seated at the time....:blink:

Probably because your arse cheeks had a firm grip on the seat Oscar! I know mine would've.

[george formby]

KX500 with a 16t front and a 36t rear sprocket = quick at the beach.247539247540

Sheesh, you pop up some good pics:yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sheesh, you pop up some good pics:yes:

I dunno who took those. But it was the first 89 KX500 out of a box back in the day, and I had a lot of success on that beast both off and on road.

[Oscar]

Probably because your arse cheeks had a firm grip on the seat Oscar! I know mine would've.

Actually, the pucker factor kicked in when I hit the stream ford just around the corner, having managed to slow down to a "mere" hundred or so...it took me the rest of the day to relax my sphincter.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Actually, the pucker factor kicked in when I hit the stream ford just around the corner, having managed to slow down to a "mere" hundred or so...it took me the rest of the day to relax my sphincter.

Yeah I bet. I would've had to have gone back to wash mine in the creek.

[Oscar]

Yeah I bet. I would've had to have gone back to wash mine in the creek.

Kev Turley (you may remember that name from back in the day in Wgn) got a pic, I'll dig it out. When I got home I had a flat spot on my front rim...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Kev Turley (you may remember that name from back in the day in Wgn) got a pic, I'll dig it out. When I got home I had a flat spot on my front rim...

Didn't a 'Turley' work at one of the Honda dealerships here years ago? Love to see the pic!

[Oscar]

Didn't a 'Turley' work at one of the Honda dealerships here years ago? Love to see the pic!

Dats him - he worked at Sawyer Honda and won a NZ Hare Scramble title on an XR.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Dats him - he worked at Sawyer Honda and won a NZ Hare Scramble title on an XR.

Aye. Thought he was in the States. Keen man on an XR600.

[Oscar]

Aye. Thought he was in the States. Keen man on an XR600.

He's a Chiropractor in Melbourne.
Going to see him in a coupla weeks.

Here's his pic of me bending my front rim.
How much water do ya reckon is in the air?
http://oscar.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Gentlemans-Adventure-2010/P1010129/1183715941_EJarG-M.jpg

[JATZ]

He's a Chiropractor in Melbourne.
Going to see him in a coupla weeks.

Here's his pic of me bending my front rim.
How much water do ya reckon is in the air?
image removed so I don't upset the mods :blink:

I know the ford.... Not quite as spectacular as yours Oscar, but here's topo, and he was probly standing up, or leaning back, knowing him

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/ztaj/115_1634-1.jpg

[monchopper]

I ride a Husky TE450, which I use for trail and lite adventure rides.

I mix standing a sitting depending on the terrain I'm riding. General gravel and smooth single track is sitting, forward on the seat elbows almost 90 degrees. (Remembering on modern enduro bikes you can get well forward on the seat allowing you to get your weight nice and neutral for controlled power sliding, I like sliding!).

When I sitting I'm always ready to stand up very quickly for any adverse terrain (ruts, deeper gravel, whoops, mud holes, can't see track etc) then back on the seat.

I generally sit on steep ascents and stand on descents.

[marks]

I ride standing up - I might just be pootling along on a fat slow klr but in the dark recesses my mind my name is Cyril and I AM A RIDING GOD

<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYcDtip1lhI/TSN59RP3XTI/AAAAAAAABYc/UEBUzomzcFw/s1600/Cyril_Despres_2007_Dakar_winner.jpg">

if only............:facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

.

How much water do ya reckon is in the air?


50 odd kilo's worth!

[andy mac]

I ride standing up - I might just be pootling along on a fat slow klr but in the dark recesses my mind my name is Cyril and I AM A RIDING GOD

Marks is the Riding God on my little pony.247629

[JATZ]

Marks is the Riding God on my little pony.247629

:killingme
That's gold

[Padmei]

Awesome:not:

[Phreaky Phil]

yer need compaire the 450 4 stroke with a 250 2 stroke..
2 strokes:love::love::love::love:... they were the days..
I had a IT465 with a YZ465 top end... A YZ with a wide ratio box..
I chickened out at 155kph:shit:..IT just not designed for those speeds..I had a KTM 250 EXC (1984) with a Wide ratio box that was just getting on the pipe at 100kph and on a forest road in Riverhead in a terrain test, caught, passed and blew an IT490 into the weeds. Man was he surprised at the end of the terrain test. No I wasnt looking at speedo !!
Ahh those were the days :yes:

[dino3310]

I had a KTM 250 EXC (1984) with a Wide ratio box that was just getting on the pipe at 100kph and on a forest road in Riverhead in a terrain test, caught, passed and blew an IT490 into the weeds. Man was he surprised at the end of the terrain test. No I wasnt looking at speedo !!
Ahh those were the days :yes:

where as i hated the fooking things.... couldn't ride them then and still cant ride them now :lol:

[marks]

Marks is the Riding God on my little pony.247629

I am not a vengeful person however today presented an opportunity too good to miss

take that baitch....:girlfight:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GGdsF5j59Sg?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Eddieb]

I got a GPS reading of 167kph on the gravel on the Molesworth on my 950Adv.
I was seated at the time....:blink:

I got a GPS reading of 153km/h on the 2010 MMMMM first section forestry trails on my 950ADV.

I was standing at the time and it was like being on a cushion of air, I thought I was only doing about 100.

[Box'a'bits]

I am not a vengeful person however today presented an opportunity too good to miss
'Don't worry Andy, I got it on video...' :killingme

After all, what are friends for....:innocent: :facepalm:

[Waihou Thumper]

I got a GPS reading of 153km/h on the 2010 MMMMM first section forestry trails on my 950ADV.

I was standing at the time and it was like being on a cushion of air, I thought I was only doing about 100.

open road, that's good...But for Oscar in a 50kph area? look out.....No wonder DOC get reports of blaggarts and terrorists in the Valley...geez! That is the required limit through the Molesworth right?:)

[bart]

I am not a vengeful person however today presented an opportunity too good to miss

take that baitch....:girlfight:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GGdsF5j59Sg?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good stuff :woohoo:


I hope you've got nothing on me stashed away

[Night Falcon]

......that is the required limit through the Molesworth right?:)

only when the ranger is about :shifty:

[NordieBoy]

I hope you've got nothing on me stashed away

I've only got the pic of you with eye liner on...

[andy mac]

I am not a vengeful person however today presented an opportunity too good to miss

take that baitch....:girlfight:

Well I suppose I deserved that ... and the camera doesn't lie :violin:

It was good to ride with you again, now on your no longer showroom clean WR.

Back to topic, I prefer gravel roads that link up trail rides :niceone: