What bullshit!

[The Singing Chef]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/5689865/Editorial-Time-for-big-bikes-to-pay

At the end of the report!!

"Threr was a lot of complaining when the ACC levy increase for motorbikes was proposed. Motorcyclists felt they were being picked on and unfairly targeted. They blamed poor car drivers for the fact that motorcyclists were being killed or hurt so often. The statistics tell a different story, of course. The figures show riders are at fault in at least 60 per cent of the accidents.

One sympathises with the motorbike retailers, who are finding it tough. But motorists won't lose any sleep. If you have ever been stuck in traffic and watched a motorcyclist ignoring road rules, weaving in and out of traffic, then roaring off on the wrong side of the road, you won't worry. Motorcyclists have had it easy for years. They have paid no more than other motorists, yet their high accident rate has been a drain on taxpayers. We are now seeing some accountability. If they want to keep their big bikes, that's fine, but it's fair that they pay for the privilege."

I think a change of thought is needed for other motorists, sad that others ruin it for us :angry: Writer is still a prick though..:innocent:

[imdying]

The white powder is already in the mail mate....

[mashman]

what a :tugger:

[The Singing Chef]

The white powder is already in the mail mate....

:rockon:10characters

[Oscar]

What a wanker.
Crap newspaper.
I cancelled my subscription ages ago.

[fatzx10r]

The white powder is already in the mail mate....

Good man :2guns:

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you have ever been stuck in traffic and watched a motorcyclist ignoring road rules, weaving in and out of traffic, then roaring off on the wrong side of the road, you won't worry. Motorcyclists have had it easy for years. They have paid no more than other motorists, yet their high accident rate has been a drain on taxpayers. We are now seeing some accountability. If they want to keep their big bikes, that's fine, but it's fair that they pay for the privilege."

:

I'd be willing to bet his wife ran off with a motorcyclist at some stage.

[Usarka]

Guys who own a fast car to make up for there small penis get very angry having to sit in traffic and watch a bike go past.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Guys who own a fast car to make up for there small penis get very angry having to sit in traffic and watch a bike go past.

Especially when it has a nice chick on the back of it to boot, and they're just left to cuddle their gearstick...

[The Singing Chef]

I'd be willing to bet his wife ran off with a motorcyclist at some stage.

I would not be surprised!!

Or he is one of those people that get pissed off at us ambling past him on the motorway, whist he is late for his "sports massage" from the man down the road.

[White trash]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers? They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

[Usarka]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers? They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

Answer your bloody email.

[Crasherfromwayback]

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

Katman...why are you logged on as WT?

[oldrider]

I'd be willing to bet his wife ran off with a motorcyclist at some stage.

Well, I ran off with mine ... worked for me! :lol: (getting kinda sick of running though) :doh:

The writer of that article is obviously an ACC Nick Smith stoogie! :sick:

[george formby]

I would suggest if you live in the Waikato that you send letters in to the editor high lighting the one sidedness of the article. It's miss-informed & blatantly inflammatory.

The statistics are used like the Real Estate numbers up here, one $5 million house sells & lo & behold the market is again booming. Mmmm, I think not.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers? They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

:confused: Katman??? is that you???

Then in your "logical society" equestrian would pay 50 times (how much they pay again???) cyclists 30 times (again how much they pay???) & trucks should pay almost nothing right? cause they'll just crush their oposition leaving the drivers pretty much unharmed.
If you want private go get you some it is out there, ACC is by everyone for everyone we need it back how it should be not this BS privatisation model that is being built so they can sell it off to private corperations that'll then do anything they can to avoid paying out

[Ronin]

It is hard to get too excited about the news that numbers of motorcyclists on our roads are declining as a result of higher registration fees.

Latest New Zealand Transport Agency figures show the number of registered motorcycles in the Waikato has dropped by one-fifth in two years.

Registered bikes huh? So no imagination on the writers part.


Some of this – particularly related to big bikes – is probably related to hard economic times, but the other factor will be the Government's move to raise ACC levies substantially for more powerful bikes.

One rider complained to the Times that he had to sell one of his bikes because the cost of registering a bike with an engine size over 600cc has risen from $280 to $528 a year. This is as it should be.

Ministry of Transport figures show motorcyclists are 18 times more likely than other road users to be involved in an accident. While the road toll has decreased overall by 24 per cent in the last decade, the number of motorcyclists killed rose 66 per cent.

Yes well, editors who blindly believe statistics poked out by a government with a vested interest should be boiled in oil. This is as it should be. Are we over represented in accident figures? Yes, yes we are. However, we contribute a far higher portion towards our own costs than do say road cyclists, who also wear lycra. When was the last time you saw a biker wearing lycra?


The extra cost for bigger bikes is reasonable. It reflects the costs to society of owning one of these big beasts. If you crash in a small bike at lesser speed, you may have a chance of walking away. Fall off a big bike at high speed and you are likely to be maimed or die.

Right then, we shall all ride 250's then because they obviously don't go fast at all.


Perhaps in time there may be more demand for smaller bikes. Certainly, earlier this year there was a spike in purchases of scooters as the cost of petrol started to bite.

And we all know just how safe scooters are.


Threr was a lot of complaining when the ACC levy increase for motorbikes was proposed. Motorcyclists felt they were being picked on and unfairly targeted. They blamed poor car drivers for the fact that motorcyclists were being killed or hurt so often. The statistics tell a different story, of course. The figures show riders are at fault in at least 60 per cent of the accidents.

So we are 10% over budget then are we?


One sympathises with the motorbike retailers, who are finding it tough. But motorists won't lose any sleep. If you have ever been stuck in traffic and watched a motorcyclist ignoring road rules, weaving in and out of traffic, then roaring off on the wrong side of the road, you won't worry. Motorcyclists have had it easy for years. They have paid no more than other motorists, yet their high accident rate has been a drain on taxpayers. We are now seeing some accountability. If they want to keep their big bikes, that's fine, but it's fair that they pay for the privilege.

Ahhhh and here we get to the point my dear reader. Mr Pocket Protector here has been passed by a motorcycle while waiting in a cue and is quietly jealous that it is not him on the bike. I'm guessing (and since Mr Pocket Protector does, I can), That Mr Pocket Protector knows nothing about bikes or riding in general.

[The Singing Chef]

Katman...why are you logged on as WT?

:laugh: , was thinking the same thing

[White trash]

:confused: Katman??? is that you???

Then in your "logical society" equestrian would pay 50 times (how much they pay again???) cyclists 30 times (again how much they pay???) & trucks should pay almost nothing right? cause they'll just crush their oposition leaving the drivers pretty much unharmed.
If you want private go get you some it is out there, ACC is by everyone for everyone we need it back how it should be not this BS privatisation model that is being built so they can sell it off to private corperations that'll then do anything they can to avoid paying out

Fuck off. Show me a thread where Steve and I see eye to eye.

Here's the thing, Blinker Boy. Cars and trucks and vans and buses and motorcycles are all registered to drive on the road. Of the accidents occurring involving these modes of transport, motorcyclists get the most fucked up. Therefore, why shouldnt they pay a higher levy?

Oh that's right, all owners of utes are now registered as commercial vehicle operators. They pay higher ACC levys. Don't see them swinging from the rafters about how hard done by they are.

Get off your vastly experienced arse, and go tutor some new riders to lessen their chances of hurting themselves and adding to the statistics.

I don't give a fucken toss about Equestrian events, less than I care about rugby in fact. The fact is, THEY'RE NOT ROAD USERS EINSTEIN! Cyclists are a bone of contention, but no drone's mentioned them yet.

[The Singing Chef]

Fuck off. Show me a thread where Steve and I see eye to eye.

Here's the thing, Blinker Boy. Cars and trucks and vans and buses and motorcycles are all registered to drive on the road. Of the accidents occurring involving these modes of transport, motorcyclists get the most fucked up. Therefore, why shouldnt they pay a higher levy?

Oh that's right, all owners of utes are now registered as commercial vehicle operators. They pay higher ACC levys. Don't see them swinging from the rafters about how hard done by they are.

Get off your vastly experienced arse, and go tutor some new riders to lessen their chances of hurting themselves and adding to the statistics.

I don't give a fucken toss about Equestrian events, less than I care about rugby in fact. The fact is, THEY'RE NOT ROAD USERS EINSTEIN! Cyclists are a bone of contention, but no drone's mentioned them yet.

What do you say to all the scooter riders who "fuck themselves up" even more due to their disregard for their skin! And how much rego do they pay? and don't bother trying to tell me that they are not included in those so called stats!!

[Scuba_Steve]

Fuck off. Show me a thread where Steve and I see eye to eye.

Here's the thing, Blinker Boy. Cars and trucks and vans and buses and motorcycles are all registered to drive on the road. Of the accidents occurring involving these modes of transport, motorcyclists get the most fucked up. Therefore, why shouldnt they pay a higher levy?

Oh that's right, all owners of utes are now registered as commercial vehicle operators. They pay higher ACC levys. Don't see them swinging from the rafters about how hard done by they are.

Get off your vastly experienced arse, and go tutor some new riders to lessen their chances of hurting themselves and adding to the statistics.

I don't give a fucken toss about Equestrian events, less than I care about rugby in fact. The fact is, THEY'RE NOT ROAD USERS EINSTEIN! Cyclists are a bone of contention, but no drone's mentioned them yet.

Firstly seems I should point out ACC covers more than just road
"equestrian" is horse riding & they can do that on the road, they have legal right to be there and apparently equestrian is the biggest cost ACC has.
If you want to pay more fine pay more I'll even take your excess money. As for me I want ACC returned to what it is ment to be, paid by all, for use by all!!!

[Ronin]

Cyclists are a bone of contention, but no drone's mentioned them yet.

.Oi, I have so :innocent:

And before I get told to fuck off and all, yes we probably should pay more but at the moment they are applying rules to selected groups and not all. Get some of those lycra clad fucks to pay more. Oh, and pedestrians who throw themselves under buses.

[Deano]

.Oi, I have so :innocent:

And before I get told to fuck off and all, yes we probably should pay more but at the moment they are applying rules to selected groups and not all. Get some of those lycra clad fucks to pay more. Oh, and pedestrians who throw themselves under buses.

Yes - clip the ticket on all risky activities if you want to make the system 'fair'.

Go into an emergency room on any Saturday morning and see how many rugby players are there. (Not saying some bikers need to ride safer)

Ironically, my worst injury accidents on bikes have been on the bloody small ones !

I have a bit of a muntered foot because of a pit bike crash - unregistered and 110cc !

[yachtie10]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers? They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

Show me some figures to show motorcyclists cost 10 times that of cars per accident (reported)
yes motorcyclists have more accident but they do not have 18 times more accidents

maybe motorcyclists should pay more but we are the only ones singled out. why because they can and articles like this.

the article was one sided whinge a bit like your one

[imdying]

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.Surely if they're as bad as all that, then it's impossible to change the statistics.

[Katman]

Fuck off. Show me a thread where Steve and I see eye to eye.



Don't fight it Jimmy.

:love:

[bogan]

Here's the thing, Blinker Boy. Cars and trucks and vans and buses and motorcycles are all registered to drive on the road. Of the accidents occurring involving these modes of transport, motorcyclists get the most fucked up. Therefore, why shouldn't they pay a higher levy?

I would say those doing the fucking up should pay for it, rather than the victim.

I guess it all comes down to what level of grouping we are comfortable. There is only one system that is truly user accountable/pays, and that is no compensation at all. How far along the scale do we want to be?

And theres is the road user risk deviation for each of the groups to consider too, just because we average higher KSI rates, doesn't mean I'm not safer than 95% of other road users (I know I'm probably not, but one can try). The mode of transport is quite simply a secondary factor, the primary one is the person behind the bars/wheel. That is one reason why so many of us consider huge levy discrepancies based on vehicle risk, a complete load of bollocks.

[4AGE]

Cause someone on a 250 barely scraping past while trying to overtake a truck is more safe than someone on a r1 who can overtake quickly, thus spending less time in the other lane.

[mashman]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers?


No, they don't. Go take a look at the ACTUAL crash statistics. The only way to make motorcyclists seem like they have a higher accident rate is to isolate them from the rest of the road going fleet. Other than that, and from memory, car drivers cause 78% of ALL road accidents, and by default are responsible for approx 78% of ACC's costs. So no, they don't cost more per accident at all.



They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.


No they are not more likely to die in a road accident for exactly the same reasons as outlined above. An accident is just that, an accident, the number of accidents is finite irrespective of vehicle class... cars have by far more deaths than motorcyclists. You have to single motorcyclists out and compare them to the car population before you can get any unfavourable statistic. Oddly enough, as part of the road going fleet, motorcycles are less likely to be involved in an accident than cars are... but you don't want to hear that do you :).

You're not using logic, you're using probability and a dataset skewed in favour of car drivers because of their superior numbers.



get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

I just changed the statistics without thumbing the starter and by applying a simple one cap fits all... but again, you probably don't want to hear that.

[Oblivion]

Wow. I expected this right to the letter. Flame war from the get go.

Why the hell have they not made motorcycle training compulsory. Oh wait, that'll be too expensive.... :facepalm:

Why the hell don't they man up and bite the bullet? :shutup: For all we know, the cost of rehabilitated motorcyclists could be less that the cost it takes to train them better.

Basic Handling skills test. Was a piece of piss. I passed even though I had never touched a motorcycle in my life.

Licence test. Also a waste of time. Most people revise for the test then forget everything. Everything. You learn nothing from it. Most of the experience I got was from riding by myself on the back roads. I took corners slow, and came back and did them faster each time. When I made a muck up, I slowed down and increased my speed gradually. I spent 30 minutes a week doing U- turns in my front yard. I practiced emergency braking regularly.

Do other people do this? I expect not. I spent more time practicing than I did actual riding.

But, The thing that gets me is, that I shouldn't have to do all this by myself, it should be apart of the licensing system that I should learn how to do this. Then an instructor can critique how well I am doing and then I can practice by myself. Why should you have to go straight to riding without training wheels? If that means that I have to pay more $, at the end of the day I'm fine with that.

But yet they insist that we are the greater evil here. I ride responsibly. I have done nothing wrong. I will say it honestly. When I got to uni next year, I probably will have to rely on my parents to pay the rego for me. I won't be able to pay it. Not on a student budget. (Rent is more that I'll get for a Student allowance. Pile that up with a 7 day a week, 5am till 8pm course....)

It shouldn't have to be like that. But, money speaks louder that words I'm afraid. :bye:

[marty]

Well, I ran off with mine ... worked for me! :lol: (getting kinda sick of running though) :doh:

The writer of that article is obviously an ACC Nick Smith stoogie! :sick:

It's not an article. It's clearly headed up as opinion.

[White trash]

No, they don't. Go take a look at the ACTUAL crash statistics. The only way to make motorcyclists seem like they have a higher accident rate is to isolate them from the rest of the road going fleet. Other than that, and from memory, car drivers cause 78% of ALL road accidents, and by default are responsible for approx 78% of ACC's costs. So no, they don't cost more per accident at all.



No they are not more likely to die in a road accident for exactly the same reasons as outlined above. An accident is just that, an accident, the number of accidents is finite irrespective of vehicle class... cars have by far more deaths than motorcyclists. You have to single motorcyclists out and compare them to the car population before you can get any unfavourable statistic. Oddly enough, as part of the road going fleet, motorcycles are less likely to be involved in an accident than cars are... but you don't want to hear that do you :).

You're not using logic, you're using probability and a dataset skewed in favour of car drivers because of their superior numbers.



I just changed the statistics without thumbing the starter and by applying a simple one cap fits all... but again, you probably don't want to hear that.

Lol. No, that's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. And as you've well demonstrated, the statistics can be moulded to suit either side of the argument.

What about this one.

Single vehicle accidents, motorcycle SVA versus car SVA. Which costs more to rehabilitate the operator? Per accident.

[yachtie10]

Lol. No, that's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. And as you've well demonstrated, the statistics can be moulded to suit either side of the argument.

What about this one.

Single vehicle accidents, motorcycle SVA versus car SVA. Which costs more to rehabilitate the operator? Per accident.

what your missing here is there can be up to 7 people in a car and if they are all injured which one do you think

I dont have the figures in front of me but I think per accident there isnt much difference (all accidents) but motorcycles were cheaper IIRC.

The real issue is we have more per registered road rider.

PS the rehab costs are not everything the salaries paid while they recouperate are more significant.

[mashman]

Lol. No, that's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. And as you've well demonstrated, the statistics can be moulded to suit either side of the argument.

What about this one.

Single vehicle accidents, motorcycle SVA versus car SVA. Which costs more to rehabilitate the operator? Per accident.

I wasn't dealing in the statistics, they are facts off of the transport.govt site :bleh: (give or take :rofl:)... but they can be fixed to fit... I believe they call it data calibration.

Single vehicle accidents: There is no data on the transport.govt... but ... according to the same document and taking Cornering as the scenario, because Cornering has double the number of injuries of any other individual cause and is most probably a single vehicle accident:

2009 numbers:

There were 1961 serious crashes (total for 2009)

Total number of car operators injured: 8017
Total number of bike operators injured: 1369

Cornering numbers

Car Operators: 2173 (27.10%)
Motorcycle Operators: 337 (24.62%)

To answer your question, I'm going with cars again...

Loss of traction in a corner at say 100kmh is loss of traction, car or bike... the numbers are still higher for cars and therefore more than likely costing ACC more per operator.

[Ender EnZed]

No, they don't. Go take a look at the ACTUAL crash statistics. The only way to make motorcyclists seem like they have a higher accident rate is to isolate them from the rest of the road going fleet. Other than that, and from memory, car drivers cause 78% of ALL road accidents, and by default are responsible for approx 78% of ACC's costs. So no, they don't cost more per accident at all.

No they are not more likely to die in a road accident for exactly the same reasons as outlined above. An accident is just that, an accident, the number of accidents is finite irrespective of vehicle class... cars have by far more deaths than motorcyclists. You have to single motorcyclists out and compare them to the car population before you can get any unfavourable statistic. Oddly enough, as part of the road going fleet, motorcycles are less likely to be involved in an accident than cars are... but you don't want to hear that do you :).

You're not using logic, you're using probability and a dataset skewed in favour of car drivers because of their superior numbers.


I've seen you spout this shit before and it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. Using your reasoning:

The percentage of road deaths each year that involve a driver wearing a blindfold is zero. There, I've proved it. It is absolutely safe to wear a blindfold while riding, you will have a 0% chance of dying.


Lol. No, that's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. And as you've well demonstrated, the statistics can be moulded to suit either side of the argument.

He's not moulding anything, he's just making shit up.

[Ender EnZed]

the numbers are still higher for cars and therefore more than likely costing ACC more per operator.

The numbers being higher for cars show that it will cost ACC more in total for all car operators, not per operator.

[White trash]

2009 numbers:

There were 1961 serious crashes (total for 2009)

Total number of car operators injured: 8017
Total number of bike operators injured: 1369

Cornering numbers

Car Operators: 2173 (27.10%)
Motorcycle Operators: 337 (24.62%)


Look. I'm pissed and I can still see the massive hole in your argument.

How many registered "cars" were there in 2009?

How many registered "motorcycles" were there in 2009?

Now give me the percentages.

Fact. Bikes crash. Bike riders get hurt.

YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET HURT RIDING A BIKE THAN DRIVING A CAR.

[mashman]

Are you actually fucked in the head? I've seen you spout this shit before and it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. Using your reasoning:

The percentage of road deaths each year that involve a driver wearing a blindfold is zero. There, I've proved it. It is absolutely safe to wear a blindfold while riding, you will have a 0% chance of dying.

He's not moulding anything, he's just making shit up.

What doesn't make sense? got a question or just running your mouth off like me...

Here's the link to the source (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Pages/Motor-Vehicle-Crashes-in-New-Zealand-2009.aspx)

[The Singing Chef]

Look. I'm pissed and I can still see the massive hole in your argument.

How many registered "cars" were there in 2009?

How many registered "motorcycles" were there in 2009?

Now give me the percentages.

Fact. Bikes crash. Bike riders get hurt.

YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET HURT RIDING A BIKE THAN DRIVING A CAR.

Unless you ride like Katman...:innocent:

[bikaholic]

Cool, a dickhead writes an article, and bikers implode on them themselves...:corn:

[mashman]

YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET HURT RIDING A BIKE THAN DRIVING A CAR.

Total injuries for cars 2009: 8017 drivers, 3370 passengers (excluding deaths)
Total injuries for a bike 2009: 1369 riders and pillions combined (excluding deaths)

I disagree that I'm more likely to get hurt on a bike.

[Ender EnZed]

What doesn't make sense?

You seem to think it irrelevant that there are far more cars than motorcycles.

[The Singing Chef]

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor-Vehicle-Crashes-2009-Motorcycle-casualties-and-crashes.pdf

First thing i noticed is the rider taking the wrong line for the corner.. probably why he crashed...

[White trash]

Cool, a dickhead writes an article, and bikers implode on them themselves...:corn:

Far from imploding. More likely having a balanced discussion on an online forum.

Look, I hate these fucken ACC bullshit levies as much as any other biker. They're total shit and discriminatory. They affect my livelyhood, unlike the majority of you goons for whom it merely effects how much you pay to enjoy leisure passtime.

So what I'm suggesting, is perhaps we take a more active stance on swaying the figures (be they right or wrong) back in our favour. Holy shit, we may just save a life at the same time!

[Ender EnZed]

Total injuries for cars 2009: 8017 drivers, 3370 passengers (excluding deaths)
Total injuries for a bike 2009: 1369 riders and pillions combined (excluding deaths)

I disagree that I'm more likely to get hurt on a bike.

Total number of cars, number of km travelled by cars and accidents involving cars are all much higher. This is important.



Total injuries for dancing drunk on a steep roof 2009: 58 dancers, 2 observers (excluding deaths).

Do you think that you're more likely to get hurt driving a car than dancing drunk on a steep roof?

[mashman]

Tota number of cars, number of km travelled by cars and accidents involving cars are all much higher. This is important.


Why is the distance travelled so important?

[The Singing Chef]

Far from imploding. More likely having a balanced discussion on an online forum.

Look, I hate these fucken ACC bullshit levies as much as any other biker. They're total shit and discriminatory. They affect my livelyhood, unlike the majority of you goons for whom it merely effects how much you pay to enjoy leisure passtime.

So what I'm suggesting, is perhaps we take a more active stance on swaying the figures (be they right or wrong) back in our favour. Holy shit, we may just save a life at the same time!

and they cried "all for one, and one for all"....oh wait it's KB. I am all for that, hence why I do everything i possibly can to improve my riding ability. But you still have the problem at the end of the day which is why aren't we getting proper training to ride in the first place? The govt seems to think this is a joke, it's like waging a war, where you send in troops regardless out whether they will die or not, and regardless of whether there is a better, safer way to win the battle. They continue to send in troops to make a stupid point.

We are but a statistic to the govt and one that makes them happy when they set their eyes upon it.

[Katman]

So what I'm suggesting, is perhaps we take a more active stance on swaying the figures (be they right or wrong) back in our favour. Holy shit, we may just save a life at the same time!

I'm going to marry you one day.

[mashman]

So what I'm suggesting, is perhaps we take a more active stance on swaying the figures (be they right or wrong) back in our favour. Holy shit, we may just save a life at the same time!

I agree and attempt that very thing with every journey I make.

[bikaholic]

Far from imploding. More likely having a balanced discussion on an online forum
There's hundreds if not thousands of these threads two years old on KB, spouting the same shit, same arguements, repitition, repeat, repeat.
Bikers still crashing, repeat, repeat.
So in that two year period, has MC crashes decreased, acc rehab expenditure decreased, per biker popualation, or per crash, per less crashes.

[James Deuce]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers? They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.
How hard did she hit you in the head?

[bogan]

So what I'm suggesting, is perhaps we take a more active stance on swaying the figures (be they right or wrong) back in our favour. Holy shit, we may just save a life at the same time!

Easier said than done though isn't it. Do you attempt to change bikers attitudes through word of mouth? Change legislation to create a more favorable environment? Change the licensing system? or something else?

[mashman]

So in that two year period, has MC crashes decreased, acc rehab expenditure decreased, per biker popualation, or per crash, per less crashes.

It looks like less levies have been collected

[James Deuce]

Easier said than done though isn't it. Do you attempt to change bikers attitudes through word of mouth? Change legislation to create a more favorable environment? Change the licensing system? or something else?

If you had even the faintest clue what sharing the road with WT was like say 5 years ago, you would be agog at the attitude change he has evidenced in the last 6 months.

[bogan]

If you had even the faintest clue what sharing the road with WT was like say 5 years ago, you would be agog at the attitude change he has evidenced in the last 6 months.

So, one out of thousands, what can we chalk it up to?

[bikaholic]

It looks like less levies have been collectedIs that answer multiple choice, just like the handout licence tests.
That must be answer to question (d).

[James Deuce]

Now I want to break something.

[Scuba_Steve]

Fuck off. Show me a thread where Steve and I see eye to eye.



I'm going to marry you one day.

This one :laugh:

[riffer]

If you had even the faintest clue what sharing the road with WT was like say 5 years ago, you would be agog at the attitude change he has evidenced in the last 6 months.

Possibly having two children in that last 5 years has mellowed him somewhat?

Or shacking up with an ambo and hearing exactly what she had to pick up off the road?

The point is, both Jimmy and Steve are right. The ONLY way to fight back against the pricks is by having as few accidents as is humanly possible. If we reduced the amount of MC SVAs to non-existent their argument becomes unsupportable.

You're not going to stop opinion though. It would be too easy to take the opinion writer to task for his opinions (filtering is one example - totally legal) who gives a shit what these people think - they can have their opinions - but until we eradicate the SVAs we don't have a leg to stand on.

[Usarka]

It's a losing argument. If crashes go down it'll prove to them that the higher levies work and therefore it'd make more sense to put them up again.

[Ronin]

So, one out of thousands, what can we chalk it up to?

Well certainly not MAG or BRONZ.

Katman is right. WT is right. Bikers need to take personal responsibility. Most of them don't.

[riffer]

It's a losing argument. If crashes go down it'll prove to them that the higher levies work and therefore it'd make more sense to put them up again.

Except we could then hoist them with their own petard. We have Slippery Nick on record as saying he would drop the levies if the accidents went down.

ACC's own rules state this has to be so. There would need to be a complete revision of their terms of engagement for this to happen.

Even National wouldn't have the guts to do that sort of change under urgency...

[Usarka]

Bikers need to take personal responsibility. Most of them don't.

Yeah the fuckers, it's all their fault!

[riffer]

Yeah the fuckers, it's all their fault!

Not all their fault. But quite a lot of it is.

Every accident I have ever had I could have avoided. Can you say different yourself, if you honestly take stock?

[riffer]

Well certainly not MAG or BRONZ.

Katman is right. WT is right. Bikers need to take personal responsibility. Most of them don't.

Seriously dude, we (BRONZ) can argue all day that bikers have the right not to crash. But we can't really do fuck all about people riding badly.

[Ronin]

Yeah the fuckers, it's all their fault!

Fuck off. Its yours. Or that cunt over there, or the wanker that designed the road.

[Ocean1]

If you had even the faintest clue what sharing the road with WT was like say 5 years ago, you would be agog at the attitude change he has evidenced in the last 6 months.

Someone told him to straighten up and fly right?
I'm guessing not, people don't change because someone told them to.

Here's the deal: Give me back all the ACC related charges you've extorted over the years and I won't charge you a cent for any injury.

And I'll behave as I see fit.

[Ronin]

Seriously dude, we (BRONZ) can argue all day that bikers have the right not to crash. But we can't really do fuck all about people riding badly.

Advocacy is one thing. Education is another.

[Scuba_Steve]

The Govt is doing their job well tho, divide & conquer

[mashman]

The point is, both Jimmy and Steve are right. The ONLY way to fight back against the pricks is by having as few accidents as is humanly possible. If we reduced the amount of MC SVAs to non-existent their argument becomes unsupportable.


And I agree with that... but you would probably have to do that over several consecutive years to affect the calculation that sets the levies and by default sets the policy. You could cut our total numbers in half (which I'd like to see) but we'd still be the higher risk for some years to come. Sorry if that seems negative, but that's the reality of it.

[Indiana_Jones]

The Govt is doing their job well tho, divide & conquer

+1

If they put it up again I'd let the thought at getting rid of my bike cross my mind. :facepalm:

So who's insurance company has said they'd cover them if they stopped paying rego, I know some people say it's a non-issue, but which insurance company will say that outright?

-Indy

[riffer]

So who's insurance company has said they'd cover them if they stopped paying rego?

My insurance company specifically states non-payment of registration invalidates the insurance.

[Indiana_Jones]

My insurance company specifically states non-payment of registration invalidates the insurance.

I'd imagine a lot would, hence the reason I have a licence on my bike.

-Indy

[riffer]

Advocacy is one thing. Education is another.


You can lead a horse to water... but you can't make it think.

[The Singing Chef]

You can lead a horse to water... but you can't make it drink.

fixed that for you :innocent:

[riffer]

fixed that for you :innocent:


I prefer my version.

[The Singing Chef]

I prefer my version.

each to their own

[riffer]

each to their own


Absolutely. I never have been one to run with the herd.

[James Deuce]

OMG, quote wars!

[The Singing Chef]

Absolutely. I never have been one to canter with the herd.

just kidding :rockon:

[The Lone Rider]

10 characters... and maybe some more.

:motu:

247525

[White trash]

If you had even the faintest clue what sharing the road with WT was like say 5 years ago, you would be agog at the attitude change he has evidenced in the last 6 months.


So, one out of thousands, what can we chalk it up to?

I've just grown up a little Jim and realised that I'm not invincible. Going racing with a thousand KBers blowing smoke up my arse about how bad I was going to thrash the opposition, then having the likes of Mr Shirriffs, Stroud and Bugden giving me a thorough schooling in how ACTUALLY to ride a motorcycle also had a lot to do with me realising that I'm not that shithot on two wheels after all.

[Katman]

then having the likes of Mr Shirriffs, Stroud and Bugden giving me a thorough schooling in how ACTUALLY to ride a motorcycle also had a lot to do with me realising that I'm not that shithot on two wheels after all.

Coming to Taupo on the 15th Jimmy?

I'll let you give me the learn.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don't fight it Jimmy.

:love:


I'm going to marry you one day.


Coming to Taupo on the 15th Jimmy?

I'll let you give me the learn.

Something you guys wanna tell us?

[nodrog]

Something you guys wanna tell us?

They are rooting around on me, sluts! :crybaby:

[slofox]

...realising that I'm not that shithot on two wheels after all.

That's a bugger that. I realised it in about 1974 when one of my "bright ideas" at Ruapuna went tits up...along with the bike...sigh...

[Murray]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/5689865/Editorial-Time-for-big-bikes-to-pay

You can make your thoughts known through this thread

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/142514-Attention-Waikato-Motorcycle-Dealers-Boycott-the-Waikato-Times?highlight=times

[flyingcrocodile46]

Ummmmm. So Motorcyclists DONT cost more to rehabilitate per accident than car drivers? They DONT have a higher ACC claim rate per capita? They're NOT more likely to die in an accident?

Sorry. In a perfectly logical society, Motorcyclists would be charged 10 times the ACC levies if even ALLOWED to operate such a dangerous means of transport.

get the fuck over yourselves and your "right to ride" and CHANGE THE STATISTICS.

:first: Only gripe I have is the multiple bike ownership fees otherwise I'm in total agreement.

[PrincessBandit]

I'm going to marry you one day.

In the name of all things holy, please please please don't say "and I want to have your babies"

[PrincessBandit]

OMG, quote wars!

In a galaxy far far away...

Jimmy Skywalker and Darth Katman and Princess Singing Chef

who have i missed out?

[Oblivion]

http://images.memegenerator.net/Instance/Preview?imageID=203665&text0=the%20number%20of%20idiot%20motorcyclists&text1=Is%20too%20damn%20high

[Katman]

In the name of all things holy, please please please don't say "and I want to have your babies"

No way.

He ain't going to fuck me up the arse!

[Dodgy_Matt]

No way.

He ain't going to fuck me up the arse!

Ummm thats not how you have babies... :facepalm:

[mashman]

No way.

He ain't going to fuck me up the arse!

Is that because the govt's pole is in the way? or because you prefer to gargle man fluids instead? :innocent:

[skippa1]

:buggerd:
Ummm thats not how you have babies... :facepalm:

:buggerd::buggerd::buggerd::killingme:killingme:ki llingme:shit::shit:

[The Singing Chef]

In a galaxy far far away...

Jimmy Skywalker and Darth Katman and Princess Singing Chef

who have i missed out?

Why can't i be Hand solo? :tugger:

[Crasherfromwayback]

In a galaxy far far away...

Jimmy Skywalker and Darth Katman and Princess Singing Chef

who have i missed out?

Hudson & Halls.

[PrincessBandit]

Why can't i be Hand solo? :tugger:

That's very clever. Never thought of that one. I'll be the Princess then.

[mashman]

That's very clever. Never thought of that one. I'll be the Princess then.

Does that mean you'd be Princess LayHer?

[Katman]

Ummm thats not how you have babies... :facepalm:

Yeah right - and I suppose you still think the stork delivers them.

[Dodgy_Matt]

Yeah right - and I suppose you still think the stork delivers them.

Well the last doctor was very tall... 6'8"?