Compulsory long sleeve fluoro jackets and other stuff

[Rover]

A interesting story from Ireland, They are looking at introducing WOF's for motorcycles, compulsory long sleeve Hi-vis jackets and the Europeans are wanting to restrict modifications. As Ireland has a lot in similar with us, I wonder how far away compulsory long sleeve fluro's and no modifications will be from being introduced here..

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bikers-out-in-force-against-new-safety-rules-2887242.html

[98tls]

If and when it wont be a problem methinks,Ive had my TL for 10 or so years,theres really little left to modify and along the way the only problem i had was some bullshit about numbers on an aftermarket led tailight which proved to be wrong anyway.The place i get my Wof knows full well i like fucking about with bikes but said nothing about the likes of Hayabusa calipers when i fitted them nor did they say anything about the radial calipers attached to GSXR forks when i got my WOF a few weeks back.Reality is i guess that the guys dishing out WOFs in general wouldnt have a clue wether a bikes has any modifications if there done well.As for the fluro thing who cares at least if i have to wear it i wont have to look at it.

[jazfender]

If and when it wont be a problem methinks,Ive had my TL for 10 or so years,theres really little left to modify and along the way the only problem i had was some bullshit...........As for the fluro thing who cares at least if i have to wear it i wont have to look at it.

Oh sweet, all good for you bro. Never mind the thousands of other motorcyclists. And provided you don't get a new bike and don't care about how you look (modifications?) and don't mind liberty restriction.

Hey... fuck all that.

[98tls]

Oh sweet, all good for you bro. Never mind the thousands of other motorcyclists. And provided you don't get a new bike and don't care about how you look (modifications?) and don't mind liberty restriction.

Hey... fuck all that.

Whats your point?i made mine in the bit you didn't quote,the average grease n oil wof guy wouldn't have a clue whats been modified on a bike.That said to most motorcyclists in NZ a new helmets a seriously intricate modification.Ive had plenty of new bikes in my 40 or so years of riding,i like fucking about with them,times have moved on and for my money any of the new bikes require little in the way of fucking about with,there way better than most peoples ability to ride them.

[jazfender]

Whats your point?

My point is your justification for that stance is based on a very narrow and specific set of criteria that applies just to you.

In other words: cool story, bro.

[Rhys]

If they can't see a 55w head light how the hell is a hi vis going to help!

WOF's I don't mind gives me a chance to check out the bike shop bargains :facepalm:

[98tls]

My point is your justification for that stance is based on a very narrow and specific set of criteria that applies just to you.
:gob:Surely not.How selfish of me.:shit:

[bikaholic]

:gob:Surely not.How selfish of me.:shit:You don't know that personal opinion cannot be based on your personal opinion, you need a thrashing with a rhubarb stick.

[steve_t]

A interesting story from Ireland, They are looking at introducing WOF's for motorcycles, compulsory long sleeve Hi-vis jackets and the Europeans are wanting to restrict modifications. As Ireland has a lot in similar with us, I wonder how far away compulsory long sleeve fluro's and no modifications will be from being introduced here..

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bikers-out-in-force-against-new-safety-rules-2887242.html

More bloody government bureaucrats trying to make it hard for bikers :mad:

I hope MAG Ireland are successful and set a good precedent.

[98tls]

You don't know that personal opinion cannot be based on your personal opinion, you need a thrashing with a rhubarb stick.

Sigh...so be it,long as i dont have to wave.

[bikaholic]

Hi Viz black will be patented soon.

[nosebleed]

Yeah, already received the "you're next" texts from the UK.

Still, we'll wait and see what Victoria does first, ay.

[98tls]

More bloody government bureaucrats trying to make it hard for bikers :mad:


With motorcycling being somewhat of a fashion statement these days attracting amongst others recently walked out on 50 somethings resplendent in uncreased leathers and stomachs so large they have forgotten whats below i applaud the govt for there efforts,for most of them waking up desperate for a piss is the only reminder of Hard.:blink:

[steve_t]

With motorcycling being somewhat of a fashion statement these days attracting amongst others recently walked out on 50 somethings resplendent in uncreased leathers and stomachs so large they have forgotten whats below i applaud the govt for there efforts,for most of them waking up desperate for a piss is the only reminder of Hard.:blink:

Haven't they heard of Viagragain? :shit: More hair on top and more there down below :scooter:

[Hitcher]

There is no evidence anywhere to prove or even suggest that fluoro garments have ever saved a life or prevented an accident anywhere they're worn.

The biggest danger from these garments is the false sense of security they bestow on those who wear them.

[Road kill]

There is no evidence anywhere to prove or even suggest that fluoro garments have ever saved a life or prevented an accident anywhere they're worn.

The biggest danger from these garments is the false sense of security they bestow on those who wear them.

Got evidence to prove that ?

[riffer]

Got evidence to prove that ?

Got evidence to disprove it?

Compulsory headlights in the day hasn't done a damned thing to change SMIDSY.

[CaSket]

Got evidence to prove that ?

I have seen countless study s saying that florescent vests do Didly Squat

If your relying on cars to see you, your riding badly anyway's.

[Scuba_Steve]

Got evidence to prove that ?

heres a start

A Wellington teenager who has twice been hit by a car while biking to school in high-visibility clothing says the gear does little to keep cyclists safe.

[Berries]

And here's another -

A Dunedin motorcyclist says hi-viz is rubbish. If car drivers like Steve Gurney can't even see a fucking train when crossing the track there is no chance they are going to see you on a bike. Ride accordingly. Wear whatever colour goes with your eyes.

[Hitcher]

Compulsory headlights in the day hasn't done a damned thing to change SMIDSY.

And encouraging car drivers to do the same thing doesn't help, as any small advantage bestowed by bikes having a point of difference is immediately vaporised.

[jazfender]

More importantly they look fucking stupid.

Anyone who thinks the government should have any control over what is worn in a public space should stick to writing complaints to the TV Guide.

[awa355]

Many years ago, they trialed car lights on in the state of Arizona. After a month, accidents had dropped by a 1/3'd. Then the accident rate started creeping back up to normal levels.

I wear a Hi Viz vest,( mostly) and it doesn't make buggar all difference. Drivers, still drive out in front at roundabouts, intersections etc.

Some people can look all day and still see nothing.

[Voltaire]

I wonder if headlights on an Hi Viz lead to target fixation, Drivers can only take in so much....the stereo....the passenger chatting.....all those dials and buttons...:innocent:

wiki says:

Target fixation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Target fixation is a process by which the brain is focused so intently on an observed object that awareness of other obstacles or hazards can diminish. Also, in an avoidance scenario, the observer can become so fixated on the target that they will forget to take the necessary action to avoid it, thus colliding with the object.

This is a common issue for motorcyclists and mountain bikers. A motorcycle or bicycle will tend to go where the rider is looking; if the rider is overly focused on an obstacle, the cycle can collide with that object simply because of the rider's focus on it, even though the rider is ostensibly trying to avoid it.

The term "target fixation" may have been borrowed from World War II fighter pilots, who spoke of a tendency to want to fly into targets during a strafing run.

Target fixation may also refer to a phenomenon where a skydiver may forget to pull the ripcord because he or she is so focused on the landing area.[1]

[baptist]

And encouraging car drivers to do the same thing doesn't help, as any small advantage bestowed by bikes having a point of difference is immediately vaporised.

That is so true, and while I do wear hi vis at night (if I remember to pack it!) I have had buses pull out on me while wearing it... Put the money into rider and driver training... I think the idea of compulsory hi vis is just a cheap way of tptb saying they are doing something safety wise...

[Quasievil]

people glance and see a Hi Viz and think automatically a stationary object, a road worker etc

best thing is to wear black and look mean, they are less likely to fuck with you then, how many hard ass gang riders get knocked ? few I would expect as people are to scared to mess with them

[oneofsix]

That is so true, and while I do wear hi vis at night (if I remember to pack it!) I have had buses pull out on me while wearing it... Put the money into rider and driver training... I think the idea of compulsory hi vis is just a cheap way of tptb saying they are doing something safety wise...

observation on hi-vis at night, well before dawn actually but still whilst its dark and using street lighting. Two riders, one with white flashes on the jacket the other I eventually discovered was wearing a yellow hi-vis over the jacket. Under the motorway lights, street lights and car lights the hi-vis never look anything but black until I was nearly alongside the rider. Yellow does show as black under sodium (yellow) lights.
Point is hi-vis can't be relied on but guess most of the users already know this.

[willytheekid]

I wonder if headlights on an Hi Viz lead to target fixation

+1 :clap:

And didn't Charlie Lamb (Director Australasian Institute of Motorcycle Studies)
conduct a survey in australia that proved Hi Viz didn't actually reduce the chances of an accident?
So there's no REAL proof that they make drivers more aware of bike's...besides....Shouldnt they be focusing on making car drivers more aware of other road users around them?.

I wear one when its foggy or poor weather...but that certainly didn't stop a 4x4 punching me off the highway recently, leaving me hanging off the bike with a dislocated shoulder trying to regain control of a tankslape on the grass medium @90k's!....guess he didn't see me huh...as he drove off pritty damn quickly!:angry:

I firmly believe they can create target fixation in some drivers :yes:

[wysper]

I have found having a cop follow you is great protection.

No bastard pulls out on you then!

[baffa]

Got evidence to disprove it?

Compulsory headlights in the day hasn't done a damned thing to change SMIDSY.

Disagree. One european country made it mandatory to have lights for all vehicles on during the day when driving a few years ago, much like what we have with motorbikes.
They had a significant decrease in vehicle accidents during the day.

It was either Norway or somewhere nearby.

I'm not arguing for or against, just saying there is some evidence to prove lights help.

With bikes its trickier. People notice things that are a risk to them. If it is a big risk, they take notice, a small one, they tend to ignore it. With a bike, everything is a big risk. With a car, a bigger car or a truck is a big risk, a bike barely distracts them from doing their makeup while they chat on the phone and forget to indicate and check mirrors.

Imo you want people to hit bikes less, give every bike a fking loud exhaust, and get people to be aggressive in traffic. A driver thats been woken up by a loud bike blatting past them is going to pay a lot more attention than one who is half asleep.

[GrayWolf]

[QUOTE=Rover;1130163157]A interesting story from Ireland, They are looking at introducing WOF's for motorcycles, compulsory long sleeve Hi-vis jackets and the Europeans are wanting to restrict modifications. As Ireland has a lot in similar with us, I wonder how far away compulsory long sleeve fluro's and no modifications will be from being introduced here../QUOTE]

Well a lot of rules becoming mandate relies simply on the apathy of the masses. look at the Poll tax riots of the late 1980's in the UK.... and similarly early 1980's a peter Bottomley MP was looking to make his political name (like s bradford) by attempting to introduce compulsory 'leg protectors' essentialy an area of impact absorbing material moulded onto fairings, or 'leg shields' for HD style bikes. Essentialy MAG, FEMA, etc all got together and the masses won out. BUT they had a groundswell of M/cyclists who got off their respective arses and protested more than once!
Personaly? I have no issue with hi vis or reflective panels, as long as I have a CHOICE in the matter. I would wear a helmet by choice, I wear ATGATT.
The concern is, like any newly introduced safety criteria, it works for a while, then familiarity sets in and accident rates rise again.
The most obvious and effective accident prevention any Govt can introduce is quite simple.... make the penalty fit the 'incident'. other countries have harsh penalties for death by drunk driving, or causing injury/death by inattention... Then you'll see a substantial reduction in accident rates.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi Viz black will be patented soon.

way too late for that. Though its hi viz only at night: theres a Cannondale rush that is black with black stickers but the black stickers glow in the dark. quite cool.

[awa355]

To pinch part of an above quote, " Target fixation may also refer to a phenomenon where a skydiver may forget to pull the ripcord because he or she is so focused on the landing area.[1]"

Christ!!! you would only make that fuck up once.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Disagree. One european country made it mandatory to have lights for all vehicles on during the day when driving a few years ago, much like what we have with motorbikes.
They had a significant decrease in vehicle accidents during the day.

It was either Norway or somewhere nearby.

I'm not arguing for or against, just saying there is some evidence to prove lights help.

With bikes its trickier. People notice things that are a risk to them. If it is a big risk, they take notice, a small one, they tend to ignore it. With a bike, everything is a big risk. With a car, a bigger car or a truck is a big risk, a bike barely distracts them from doing their makeup while they chat on the phone and forget to indicate and check mirrors.

Imo you want people to hit bikes less, give every bike a fking loud exhaust, and get people to be aggressive in traffic. A driver thats been woken up by a loud bike blatting past them is going to pay a lot more attention than one who is half asleep.

if it was Norway, it likely worked because its so near the Arctic their average day is 3 hours long, and shrouded in fog and all that. i.e. its dark all the bloody time!

[otter]

Fuck that shit, I'm busy trying to look badass in my leathers on my bike. I don't need some fluro jacket wrecking it for me. Not to mention it'll be another thing to carry around. I probably wouldn't wear my leather jacket if I had to wear another fluro jacket over it in summer either.

I already assume that cars don't see me when riding, and often they don't but I've mentally prepared for that and am already looking for an exit.

[otter]

way too late for that. Though its hi viz only at night: theres a Cannondale rush that is black with black stickers but the black stickers glow in the dark. quite cool.

Do you know where to get the sheets of the black stuff that turns white with flashes or glow in the dark sounds fine...I'm kinda keen to cover my bike with it :D

[imdying]

Do you know where to get the sheets of the black stuff that turns white with flashes or glow in the dark sounds fine...I'm kinda keen to cover my bike with it :DYup, reflective black vinyl reflects white. Not as bright as white vinyl does, but more than bright enough.

[Gremlin]

way too late for that. Though its hi viz only at night: theres a Cannondale rush that is black with black stickers but the black stickers glow in the dark. quite cool.
Black reflective vinyl. Cool stuff, I have some. 3M brand.

Do you know where to get the sheets of the black stuff that turns white with flashes or glow in the dark sounds fine...I'm kinda keen to cover my bike with it :D
These guys have it: http://www.computaleta.co.nz/

Don't bother with the safety shops. I tried them all. One person looked like I had crept out from under a rock, saying black reflective was a contradiction. Asked someone that had been there for 20-30 years... he'd never seen it... Guys above didn't even blink and asked how much. Sold in 600mm wide sheets, by the metre.

[SPman]

people glance and see a Hi Viz and think automatically a stationary object, a road worker etc

best thing is to wear black and look mean, they are less likely to fuck with you then, how many hard ass gang riders get knocked ? few I would expect as people are to scared to mess with them
I beleive a Simpson Bandit helmet painted as a skull works really well - around town anyway.

40,000 in UK protest and the same level of reporting you get in NZ papers....

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/40000-bikers-ride-in-anti-eu-protest/19115.html

[Road kill]

Got evidence to disprove it?

Compulsory headlights in the day hasn't done a damned thing to change SMIDSY.

Not at hand,,but yes I have seen it.

[Road kill]

heres a start

A Wellington teenager who has twice been hit by a car while biking to school in high-visibility clothing says the gear does little to keep cyclists safe.

Hi vis gear does make you more visible,,it doesn't make motorists better at what their doing.
The logic here seems to be that wearing hi viz makes you more likely to be involved in an accident,,,I don't support the compulsary wearing of hi viz gear,,but I ain't buying that.

[steve_t]

The logic here seems to be that wearing hi viz makes you more likely to be involved in an accident

:blink::blink:

[p.dath]

observation on hi-vis at night, well before dawn actually but still whilst its dark and using street lighting. Two riders, one with white flashes on the jacket the other I eventually discovered was wearing a yellow hi-vis over the jacket. Under the motorway lights, street lights and car lights the hi-vis never look anything but black until I was nearly alongside the rider. Yellow does show as black under sodium (yellow) lights.
Point is hi-vis can't be relied on but guess most of the users already know this.

Never look anything but black? I've done plenty of riding at night time with other riders wearing high-viz, and can't say I have ever noticed it.

I also see on this site about ambulance design they say sodium lights have little effect on yellow/green, making them a little bit whiter. It's only the other colours that get washed out to grey/blown/black.
http://www.ambulancevisibility.com/index.php?p=1_16

[eliot-ness]

Should it be made compulsory for the wearing of high viz gear then it figures that, in a year's time, all accidents will be attributed to the wearing of such gear, whereas black leathers only contributed to 10%. So, a ban on fluorescent garb will cut the accident rate by 90%. Problem solved.:yes:

[riffer]

Should it be made compulsory for the wearing of high viz gear then it figures that, in a year's time, all accidents will be attributed to the wearing of such gear, whereas black leathers only contributed to 10%. So, a ban on fluorescent garb will cut the accident rate by 90%. Problem solved.:yes:

Don't count on it. They're just as likely to decide it's because you aren't wearing ENOUGH high-viz gear and won't be happy until you look like a fluoro yellow idiot.

[Scuba_Steve]

compulsory or not I only wear Hi Vis black & have no intention of changing!!!

[bikaholic]

Some bikers will be better off in Hi Viz, they can dream they are a council refuse collector, roadworks labourer, or as much as a security guard.