Servicing costs - why so vague?

[bluninja]

I booked my bike in for it's 1000km service at the local dealership, and asked what the cost would be. The answer $150-200.

So an authorised Suzuki dealer can't give an exact figure for an oil and filter change plus a thorough (I hope) checking over of the bike and any needed adjustment to chain and clutch. When asked why the figure was vague, he said it depended on what they found....though any additional work would probably be covered by warranty.

Is this par for the course?

[nodrog]

I booked my bike in for it's 1000km service at the local dealership, and asked what the cost would be. The answer $150-200.

So an authorised Suzuki dealer can't give an exact figure for an oil and filter change plus a thorough (I hope) checking over of the bike and any needed adjustment to chain and clutch. When asked why the figure was vague, he said it depended on what they found....though any additional work would probably be covered by warranty.

Is this par for the course?

$150 would be if nothing needs adjusting, $200 would be if they have to adjust something, just like you said.

[YellowDog]

I booked my bike in for it's 1000km service at the local dealership, and asked what the cost would be. The answer $150-200.

So an authorised Suzuki dealer can't give an exact figure for an oil and filter change plus a thorough (I hope) checking over of the bike and any needed adjustment to chain and clutch. When asked why the figure was vague, he said it depended on what they found....though any additional work would probably be covered by warranty.

Is this par for the course?

Yes, it is par for the course. They are just trying to manage your expecations.

If you have been looking after your bike really well and all it needs is the standard service for the mileage, then $150 may more than cover it.

If you have however been caning the bastard and it consequentially runs like a dog needing much correction, adjustment, and replacement parts; then $500 may be nearer the mark.

They can only make an estimate as to what the specified service will cost on the basis that will be all that is required.

As a tip, when a garage says your brake pads are below 50%, should I change them for you? Just to be safe!

The answer is NO THANK YOU :yes:

[Bassmatt]

Yes, it is par for the course. They are just trying to manage your expecations.

If you have been looking after your bike really well and all it needs is the standard service for the mileage, then $150 may more than cover it.

If you have however been caning the bastard and it consequentially runs like a dog needing much correction, adjustment, and replacement parts; then $500 may be nearer the mark.

Keeping in mind it is the 1000 km service I cant see why the owner should be expected to pay for any adjustments.
I went through this with Kawasaki. I was charged around $300 for the 1000k service and was told most of the cost was checking all the bolts etc were still tight, ffs.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Seems more than reasonable to me.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Keeping in mind it is the 1000 km service I cant see why the owner should be expected to pay for any adjustments.
I went through this with Kawasaki. I was charged around $300 for the 1000k service and was told most of the cost was checking all the bolts etc were still tight, ffs.


Why shouldn't the owner pay for time used? New bikes often need going over with a fine toothed comb. Bolts/spokes etc often come loose during break in and need tightning/adjustment. That margin is certainly not built into the profit on a new bike...so the dealer shouldn't be out of pocket checking it all.

[bluninja]

Yes, it is par for the course. They are just trying to manage your expecations.

If you have been looking after your bike really well and all it needs is the standard service for the mileage, then $150 may more than cover it.
As it's the first service, I wouldn't expect to have to pay for anything other than standard.


As a tip, when a garage says your brake pads are below 50%, should I change them for you? Just to be safe!

The answer is NO THANK YOU :yes:

LOL, I'd change my own pads anyway. If the bike had no warranty I'd do all the simple servicing myself. I used to commute 1200kms a week on an SV650, so I serviced it quite frequently :)

[Bassmatt]

Why shouldn't the owner pay for time used? New bikes often need going over with a fine toothed comb. Bolts/spokes etc often come loose during break in and need tightning/adjustment. That margin is certainly not built into the profit on a new bike...so the dealer shouldn't be out of pocket checking it all.

Put it together properly in the first place. I have never had to take a car, truck or tractor in after 1000ks so they can check its not falling apart, why are bikes different?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Put it together properly in the first place. I have never had to take a car, truck or tractor in after 1000ks so they can check its not falling apart, why are bikes different?

No matter how well it's put together in the first place things do and will vibrate loose from new. Chains bed into/onto sprockets...and can have a wee bit of stretch.

Kawasaki used to expect you to pull the cyl on their two stroke moto-x bikes to make sure the piston was all good on their electrofusion cyls etc.

And if something come lose and falls of your tractor or car...you might not die. On your bike you're quite likely to.

[Slyer]

When I bought my Kawasaki ER6, they threw in the first service for free.
No checking of bolts necessary.

[5150]

Why shouldn't the owner pay for time used? New Harleys often need going over with a fine toothed comb. Bolts/spokes etc often come loose during break in and need tightning/adjustment. That margin is certainly not built into the huge profit on a new Harley...so the dealer shouldn't be out of pocket checking it all.

Fixed that for you :innocent:

[Bassmatt]

No matter how well it's put together in the first place things do and will vibrate loose from new. Chains bed into/onto sprockets...and can have a wee bit of stretch.
Why not check every 1000k then

Kawasaki used to expect you to pull the cyl on their two stroke moto-x bikes to make sure the piston was all good on their electrofusion cyls etc.

And if something come lose and falls of your tractor or car...you might not die. On your bike you're quite likely to.
Depends what falls off i guess.

I dont think we would find this acceptable practice with other products
eg: Here are the keys to your new house ( car,boat,carpet,computer,etc etc) sir! We will be back in three months to check the nails (bolts, carpet tacks, etc) are still holding everything together. Naturally this will be at YOUR cost,sir!
So why do we accept it with motorbikes?

[Genie]

I booked my bike in for it's 1000km service at the local dealership, and asked what the cost would be. The answer $150-200.

So an authorised Suzuki dealer can't give an exact figure for an oil and filter change plus a thorough (I hope) checking over of the bike and any needed adjustment to chain and clutch. When asked why the figure was vague, he said it depended on what they found....though any additional work would probably be covered by warranty.

Is this par for the course?

Is this first service??? Gee, mine was free.

I think you'll find that any business, motorcycle or not, will give you estimates like that with any kind of verbal quote.

[ukusa]

after the 1st 1000 kms, I would expect the service to involve replacing the running in oil & the filter & maybe some chain/belt adjustment if necessary & a quick once over of nuts & bolts. Should be easy enough for a shop to put a figure on that.

There is also sometimes a checklist in the owners manual of stuff to be done at the first service.

If there's anything else wrong with it, it should be covered under the new bike warranty. Brake pads, tyres, clutch etc should not be worn out after 1000 kms.

[Crasherfromwayback]

When I bought my Kawasaki ER6, they threw in the first service for free.
No checking of bolts necessary.

And that's great. I often talk with buyers about what they'd like for a deal. Most would rather have a discount/deal on gear than a free service. But for sure I'll look at all of the above.


I dont think we would find this acceptable practice with other products
eg: Here are the keys to your new house ( car,boat,carpet,computer,etc etc) sir! We will be back in three months to check the nails (bolts, carpet tacks, etc) are still holding everything together. Naturally this will be at YOUR cost,sir!
So why do we accept it with motorbikes?

Yeah...and you ride your new house down the bumpiest street full of potholes you can find then get back to me about how many lose fittings you find.

But hey...no worries mate. You keep thinking you're being ripped off...makes no difference to me.

[Bassmatt]

And that's great. I often talk with buyers about what they'd like for a deal. Most would rather have a discount/deal on gear than a free service. But for sure I'll look at all of the above.



Yeah...and you ride your new house down the bumpiest street full of potholes you can find then get back to me about how many lose fittings you find.

But hey...no worries mate. You keep thinking you're being ripped off...makes no difference to me.

No, but my house is built to withstand the stresses its expected to encounter.
You are clearly stating that this is not the case for motorbikes

[bluninja]

I must admit that most motorcycle workshops (in the UK) I've dealt with have given me a fixed price for a service. If they find something not covered in the service as they are checking they let me know and give me a quote to do that work.

Mind you it's a long time since I took a bike to a workshop to be serviced.

Great for the people that got a free first service. I was happy with the deal I got, and taking the bike back to where it was purchased from for a service isn't practical.

[gijoe1313]

With my two new bikes, the first 1000km services were gratis (Botany Honda), just had my 24000km service and that set me back $383, got a printout of all the things they did, spoke to the mechanic and what things he did. All tickety-boo, if anything needs replacing that invovles $$'s, they always ask before they went ahead.

Depends on the shop on a case by case basis? :scratch:

[Jay GTI]

I dont think we would find this acceptable practice with other products
eg: Here are the keys to your new house ( car,boat,carpet,computer,etc etc) sir! We will be back in three months to check the nails (bolts, carpet tacks, etc) are still holding everything together. Naturally this will be at YOUR cost,sir!
So why do we accept it with motorbikes?

Hmmm, my old riding buddy used to build houses, he would always have to go back to fix a few things once the house was lived in for a while. I had a new company car a few years ago, that had to go back to the dealer to have a couple of squeaks and rattles investigated. I’ve also had to send a near new laptop back to base for sorting, so issues with new products aren’t anything unusual. Bikes have a number of serviceable parts that need breaking in and the only way to do that is ride the thing, then check, so this is normal a well.

As for paying for it, yes it is normally covered in what ever warranty provided with what you’ve just bought, which is why in most cases bike dealers offer the first service for free, or at least labour free, so they can check the bolts, spokes, chain tension etc. at no cost to the owner.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, but my house is built to withstand the stresses its expected to encounter.
You are clearly stating that this is not the case for motorbikes

No. I'm simply telling you motorcycles are a different kettle of fish, and require complete going over from new to be safe once things settle/bed in. If you'd like your bike to weight 500kg, it wouldn't be a problem. They could use nylocks nuts on everything...much bigger bolts etc. But then you'd cry like a little bitch that your bike was too heavy for you. Maybe you should stick to cars/tractors?

[Bassmatt]

Hmmm, my old riding buddy used to build houses, he would always have to go back to fix a few things once the house was lived in for a while. I had a new company car a few years ago, that had to go back to the dealer to have a couple of squeaks and rattles investigated. I’ve also had to send a near new laptop back to base for sorting, so issues with new products aren’t anything unusual. Bikes have a number of serviceable parts that need breaking in and the only way to do that is ride the thing, then check, so this is normal a well.

As for paying for it, yes it is normally covered in what ever warranty provided with what you’ve just bought, which is why in most cases bike dealers offer the first service for free, or at least labour free, so they can check the bolts, spokes, chain tension etc. at no cost to the owner.

Not really the same issue.
A: you shouldn't have had to pay in any of the examples you have listed
B: The problems you had are exceptions.

[SS90]

No, but my house is built to withstand the stresses its expected to encounter.
You are clearly stating that this is not the case for motorbikes

Putting all bullshit aside, the reality is that in this capitalistic world we live in, a motorcycle business is, quite frankly, a poor investment, and, if it somehow manages to make the 20% return that is required to be a viable entity, the returns just never seem to match the energy and commitment needed.

This concept is not just at dealership level, the manufactures see it the same too, excluding Lets look at the "Big Four"..... Two of those also produce cars..... The other two produce Boats, Aeroplanes, cranes , keyboards, flutes and fiddles.

Bikes just don't make money guys, either retail, or wholesale.

Margins in other products that offer free first services (or 2 years servicing) simply have bigger margins, so big in fact that the dealers can disguise these margins in the form of "free services"

[lakedaemonian]

Way down here at Rolling Thunder Harley we've switched to Menu Pricing for the simple and straight forward service work.

When you walk into a Burger joint and order a Double Cheesesburger the price should be fixed.....you don't get an "estimate of $5.32 to $7.25" from the girl at the counter to make you a burger.

The cost of a burger and the cost of a service(for that particular model/family) should be listed.

If you want fries and a coke...or if you want tires...you pay extra and those prices should be clearly listed as well.

It can be a pain in the ass to reduce the total number of prices displayed to the minimum necessary to avoid drowning/confusing customers in numbers......as well as preventing the fixed price of a service for a particular bike model from subsidizing the service of another particular model...but it can be done.

I reckon a big part of some customers negative perceptions of franchise dealer workshops is the anxiety of the unknown...not knowing what the bill is going to be....if you know upfront....it helps to prevent people from getting anxious and/or pissed off.

[Bassmatt]

No. I'm simply telling you motorcycles are a different kettle of fish, and require complete going over from new to be safe once things settle/bed in. If you'd like your bike to weight 500kg, it wouldn't be a problem. They could use nylocks nuts on everything...much bigger bolts etc. But then you'd cry like a little bitch that your bike was too heavy for you. Maybe you should stick to cars/tractors?

If at the 1000km service you find some bolts ( any bolt ) has come loose, what do you do to ensure it doesn't happen again after re-tightening it?

[Crasherfromwayback]

If at the 1000km service you find some bolts ( any bolt ) has come loose, what do you do to ensure it doesn't happen again after re-tightening it?

Cross our fingers.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fixed that for you :innocent:

Funnily enough mate...Harleys have very little come loose. They DO weight a ton.

[BurningPlastic]

If at the 1000km service you find some bolts ( any bolt ) has come loose, what do you do to ensure it doesn't happen again after re-tightening it?
Drop of loctite, or just keep an eye on it... Reminds me of learning to service British bikes with my Dad - dab of copperslip on the threads and depending on the bolt, a dab of loctite for good luck ;->

This thread sounds more like the service guy just didn't want to commit to a cost if something unexpected came up - seems more like a throwaway comment rather than purposefully vague...

[Bassmatt]

Cross our fingers.

And tell them to bring it back in another 1000k for a re tighten?:innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

And tell them to bring it back in another 1000k for a re tighten?:innocent:

Nah. Seriously...things normally settle down after the first going over. Spokes are the worst things generally. So if you don't have 'em...things are pretty straight forward.

[nodrog]

Not really the same issue.
A: you shouldn't have had to pay in any of the examples you have listed
B: The problems you had are exceptions.

You are not paying for them to replace defective parts or remedy any problems. You are paying them to look for issues, whether they be manufactured or owner inflicted.

Any manufactured faults/issues will be covered under the warrenty (free of charge), provided you have followed proceedure and had your motorcycle serviced as per the manufacturers service agreement.

[Bassmatt]

You are not paying for them to replace defective parts or remedy any problems. You are paying them to look for issues, whether they be manufactured or owner inflicted.

Any manufactured faults/issues will be covered under the warrenty (free of charge), provided you have followed proceedure and had your motorcycle serviced as per the manufacturers service agreement.

Yes. I am paying them to look for issues that may or may not exist, which come about by using the product in the way it is intended to be used.

[nodrog]

Yes. I am paying them to look for issues that may or may not exist, which come about by using the product in the way it is intended to be used.

Or come about because some dumb fucker has never heard of chain lube. or burnt out their clutch because they saw Ben Spies turning his adjuster half way through a race, "so this knob must make me faster".

Or they really smart ones who wash their bikes with degreaser and a waterblaster.

[bluninja]

Yes. I am paying them to look for issues that may or may not exist, which come about by using the product in the way it is intended to be used.

+1

That's what I believe I'm doing with a service. Therefore since the first service schedule is documented I would expect a set price.

Items that are warrantable if discovered get paid for by the manufacturer.
Items down to misuse (if any) come back to the owner.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Items that are warrantable .

Get checked when we do a wof check!

[willytheekid]

So some owners expect motorcycle shops & their mechanics to "guess" (or mind read) "exactly" what work is required when servicing an unseen bike?(regardless of k's!)

Come on!:shutup:

Every bike shop "tries" to give a service figure, but with out actually checking the bike over, how the hell are they supposed to know exactly what needs doing and the associated costs involved.

And forgive me for pointing this out, but.....what about the riders obligation to ensure they "know" their ride and that it is kept safe & well maintained?
...its called pre-checks & home maintenance!.

If you have a bike and don't regularly check it over for possible faults, required maintenance, tyre pressure, leaks etc etc...then YOUR the one not doing your job properly! (And you WILL be surprised at service time when the bill reflects your inability to do basic maintenance & checks)

To "ride it" is only PART of the program, to know your bike, its mechanical state and what work may be required in the near future is a BIG part of owning a motorcycle, and one that will keep you riding safer and with more cash in the back pocket :yes:

Don't give a bike shop the opportunity to tell you that bolts are loose and the tires actually require air in them to function properly etc, check your Bike before every ride & start doing regular maintenance checks at home to address these basic issues BEFORE going to a shop and paying someone to do YOUR maintenance.

As for 1000k first service...its just that...FIRST SERVICE!, its the best possible time to check the whole bike over for any possible Manufacturing faults, defect parts, settling in movement etc etc, or to just bring to the new owners attention that lack of regular servicing has resulted in, or may result in damage if not regulary done.

...in short it comes down to "an inquiry into values" :msn-wink:...don't ya think?

[nodrog]

+1

That's what I believe I'm doing with a service. Therefore since the first service schedule is documented I would expect a set price.

Items that are warrantable if discovered get paid for by the manufacturer.
Items down to misuse (if any) come back to the owner.

So if they said $150 plus any extras, and those extras added up to over the $200, how long would it take you to start the thread "servicing costs - why so accurate?"

[5150]

Funnily enough mate...Harleys have very little come loose. They DO weight a ton.

I would dare to dispute the first part of that claim sir, and whole-heartedly agree with the rest of it :corn:

Them Hareleys sure weight a ton. No dispute there. As for very little come loose, well, I know of three examples that after first 1500-2000 km's things started to drop out as they vibrated out. In one case it was the mirror, in another the headlight mount following closely by the number plate. :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I would dare to dispute the first part of that claim, and whole heartedly agree with the rest of it :corn:

Them Hareleys sure weight a ton. No dispute there. As for very little come loose, well, I know of three examples that after first 1500km's things started to drop out as they vibrated out. In one case first was the mirror, following closely by the headlight mount. :yes:

You can 'dispute' it as much as you like mate. But I'll simply tell you than in 20+ years in the industry...having done nearly every brand you can think of...HD have less issues than most. Don't forget...they're THE biggest selling bike in NZ over 800cc...so there are more of them out there, so you tend to hear of more faults!

[Usarka]

I can tell you that losing a bolt at 280kph isn't pleasant. Especially when you're the poor sap being overtaken and it goes through your radiator.

Pay for the damn servicing goldstein!

[Sable]

If you don't like it do it yourself. :whocares:

[Viscount Montgomery]

None of these cunts care about ripping off customers, doesn't worry me one fuck either, wouldn't take my bike to a fucken dealer or garage anytime this century, motherfucker bikeshops in this town needed rockets up their lazy dodging arses, last fucken cunt sat on a chair feet on desk on a phone behind a glass panel through the doorway of their workshop and fucken sat there with absolutely no intention of providing service as I stood with tyre in one hand and wallet in the other in the doorway and wind and rain for at least 2 minutes without one motherfucking dead-beat fucktard out of the smarmy pimple-faced retard mechanics sitting on their fucking arses doing fucking nothing with the fucking radio blaring it's guts out, this cunt on the phone and the fucken bonehead sitting out asleep in the fucken office, none of the cunts moved a muscle to come and help before I turned around and fucken stormed off. First time I'd fucken been there and be damn fucken sure the last fucken time. Even if the cunts had the last fucken bolt for my bike in existence. And only one story of a fucken hundred similar

[Crasherfromwayback]

None of these cunts care about ripping off customers, doesn't worry me one fuck either, wouldn't take my bike to a fucken dealer or garage anytime this century, motherfucker bikeshops in this town needed rockets up their lazy dodging arses, last fucken cunt sat on a chair feet on desk on a phone behind a glass panel through the doorway of their workshop and fucken sat there with absolutely no intention of providing service as I stood with tyre in one hand and wallet in the other in the doorway and wind and rain for at least 2 minutes without one motherfucking dead-beat fucktard out of the smarmy pimple-faced retard mechanics sitting on their fucking arses doing fucking nothing with the fucking radio blaring it's guts out, this cunt on the phone and the fucken bonehead sitting out asleep in the fucken office, none of the cunts moved a muscle to come and help before I turned around and fucken stormed off. First time I'd fucken been there and be damn fucken sure the last fucken time. Even if the cunts had the last fucken bolt for my bike in existence. And only one story of a fucken hundred similar

You may find they simply don't want to do business with a p fried hothead.

[Gremlin]

I honestly think this thread is a complete waste of time. $150-200 is fuck all, when it could be your life...

If they quoted $150, then found issues, what then?
If they quoted $200, you might go elsewhere, coz it's sooo expensive.
Funnily enough, it's an estimate, hence the (tiny) difference in two prices.

I'm not even in the industry, I simply understand that expertise and time costs (and there isn't a money tree). I have dealers I completely trust to look after the bikes, and don't even ask what the cost is, simply ring, book it in, tell them what needs doing. Anything that needs doing is done, and sometimes even parts are replaced, as what else choice is there? Don't replace brake pads that don't have any meat left? uh....

Oh, then pay when I get rung to collect.

As a comparison, my KTM never cost less than $444 for a service, the first was $950 ish, because I didn't like the way the factory set up the forks, so they were pulled apart and rebuilt.

I guess you'd have a heart attack at the (probably) 5 figure sum a year, to keep two bikes running... The Hornet is "older" 2005, 96,000km. The BMW is new, 2010, 30,000km.

[bluninja]

I honestly think this thread is a complete waste of time. $150-200 is fuck all, when it could be your life...

Yet you post here :)

It's not my life.....the bike is sound....if it wasn't for the warranty I wouldn't be taking it in to a shop.....though I would take it to a trusted mechanic for things that I would rather have someone else do.


If they quoted $150, then found issues, what then?
If they quoted $200, you might go elsewhere, coz it's sooo expensive.
Funnily enough, it's an estimate, hence the (tiny) difference in two prices.

My question in the OP was possibly too vague......perhaps I should have said why is scheduled maintenance not fixed price?


I'm not even in the industry, I simply understand that expertise and time costs (and there isn't a money tree).

This isn't a penny pinching exercise. If it was the question would have been...why is the first service so expensive?


I guess you'd have a heart attack at the (probably) 5 figure sum a year, to keep two bikes running... The Hornet is "older" 2005, 96,000km. The BMW is new, 2010, 30,000km.

You guess wrong. I no longer commute and ride 60,000kms a year on an Aprilia, but I do know what it costs to ride and run a motorbike all too well.

[nodrog]

You may find they simply don't want to do business with a p fried hothead.

especially if he's not sharing

[bluninja]

I can tell you that losing a bolt at 280kph isn't pleasant. Especially when you're the poor sap being overtaken and it goes through your radiator.

Pay for the damn servicing goldstein!

I can tell you that losing your sump plug and coating your back wheel in oil at 120 kmh isn't fun either. It was no fun for the mechanic when I phoned him 30 minutes after leaving the shop to come collect me and the bike. The plug fell out as he'd overtightened it and cracked the alloy sump (ZX9R C1). Hmmmm....I paid the money for the damn servicing...as with all walks of life there are good people and lazy arsed incompetent people.

[Crasherfromwayback]

especially if he's not sharing

Aye. He doesn't strike me as the sharing kind.

[bogan]

My question in the OP was possibly too vague......perhaps I should have said why is scheduled maintenance not fixed price?

It's not scheduled maintenance, it's a scheduled check-up followed by whatever work needs doing.

[YellowDog]

As it's the first service, I wouldn't expect to have to pay for anything other than standard.



LOL, I'd change my own pads anyway. If the bike had no warranty I'd do all the simple servicing myself. I used to commute 1200kms a week on an SV650, so I serviced it quite frequently :)

Oh, it's a 1000km service, not 10000km :lol:

I thought those were free from the selling dealer and include re-torquing any rattly bolts :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I thought those were free from the selling dealer and include re-torquing any rattly bolts :yes:

Yamaha used to include them free. I think only BMW does now?

[Bassmatt]

Oh, it's a 1000km service, not 10000km :lol:

I thought those were free from the selling dealer and include re-torquing any rattly bolts :yes:

Got laughed at when i asked about a free first service.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Got laughed at when i asked about a free first service.

Next time you buy a new bike...hit them up for it when you're haggling over the price...not once the deal is done.

[bluninja]

So some owners expect motorcycle shops & their mechanics to "guess" (or mind read) "exactly" what work is required when servicing an unseen bike?(regardless of k's!)

Come on!:shutup:

No I expect experienced mechanics to be able to provide a price for work that they know they will carry out. I don't expect them to quote for mystery problems that they may or may not find.


And forgive me for pointing this out, but.....what about the riders obligation to ensure they "know" their ride and that it is kept safe & well maintained?
...its called pre-checks & home maintenance!.

If you have a bike and don't regularly check it over for possible faults, required maintenance, tyre pressure, leaks etc etc...then YOUR the one not doing your job properly! (And you WILL be surprised at service time when the bill reflects your inability to do basic maintenance & checks)

That should be you're, or you are :) No forgiveness needed; pre ride checks and regular inspection and maintenance are part of riding.

But since my bike is always in top top condition then clearly not aimed at me. If I service the bike myself and then something inside the engine blows later I could find myself having difficulty claiming on the warranty.


To "ride it" is only PART of the program, to know your bike, its mechanical state and what work may be required in the near future is a BIG part of owning a motorcycle, and one that will keep you riding safer and with more cash in the back pocket :yes:

As for 1000k first service...its just that...FIRST SERVICE!, its the best possible time to check the whole bike over for any possible Manufacturing faults, defect parts, settling in movement etc etc, or to just bring to the new owners attention that lack of regular servicing has resulted in, or may result in damage if not regulary done.

...in short it comes down to "an inquiry into values" :msn-wink:...don't ya think?

Hmmmm is the first service any more or less important than any subsequent service? Perhaps that would be more "an inquiry into values".

[Mad-V2]

You could always go over the bike yourself first looking for defects/loose bolts etc, workshop manuals are pretty easy to find on the net for torque settings and what not.
Then take it in for the standard stuff (warranty purposes).
Then there's no surprise's, and you learn more about your bike along the way.

Disclaimer: Always use the workshop manual for torque specifications

[bluninja]

You could always go over the bike yourself first looking for defects/loose bolts etc, workshop manuals are pretty easy to find on the net for torque settings and what not.
Then take it in for the standard stuff (warranty purposes).
Then there's no surprise's, and you learn more about your bike along the way.

Disclaimer: Always use the workshop manual for torque specifications

yup...I check the bike over..perhaps that's why I wonder why the first service/check/inspection is not a fixed fee.

[nodrog]

No I expect experienced mechanics to be able to provide a price for work that they know they will carry out.

Oh, so you want them to be fortune tellers and be able to see into the future?

the $150 is the minimum cost of the service, that they have worked out based on what they know they have to check, the margin between $150-$200 is allowing for anything extra they may have to do.

Its not fuckin rocket surgery to work it out.

[Bassmatt]

Next time you buy a new bike...hit them up for it when you're haggling over the price...not once the deal is done.


Why shouldn't the owner pay for time used? New bikes often need going over with a fine toothed comb. Bolts/spokes etc often come loose during break in and need tightning/adjustment. That margin is certainly not built into the profit on a new bike...so the dealer shouldn't be out of pocket checking it all.

So which is it?

[Crasherfromwayback]

So which is it?

Well it goes like this (you're obviously pendantic and none too smart)...

If you ask me for $1000.00 off, I may do that for you. But I certainly won't then have the profit left in the bike to be able to do your first service for free.

If you're a nice guy to deal with...I may think that throwing in the first service for free is worth it purely for the sake of a sale...I may not. I may give you a helmet etc instead. Each deal/bike is different, and comes down to margin/keenness for the dealer to sell said bike.

But don't for a minute think that the distributors give us enough margin to give all manner of shit away...cause it ain't the case.

[bluninja]

Oh, so you want them to be fortune tellers and be able to see into the future?

That would be fantastic....they can tell me next weeks lotto numbers, and tell me when the dollar is going to be at it's best to buy the parts I'm going to need.

[Dodgy_Matt]

snip....fucken sat there with absolutely no intention of providing service as I stood with tyre in one hand and wallet in the other .../snip

There is your problem right there...
99% of mechanic/bike shops that sell tyres will not put a tyre you got from somewhere else on a rim for love nor a large wad of cash.. They don’t make any money from a tyre sale why provide a fitting service? :facepalm:

[bluninja]

Well it goes like this (you're obviously pendantic and none too smart)...



No, I'm pedantic.:yes:

[oneofsix]

That would be fantastic....they can tell me next weeks lotto numbers, and tell me when the dollar is going to be at it's best to buy the parts I'm going to need.

6 numbers between 1 and 40 plus a seventh bonus number between 1 and 8. Hey its a closure margin than 50. :corn:

[nodrog]

Well it goes like this (you're obviously pendantic and none too smart)...

If you ask me for $1000.00 off, I may do that for you. But I certainly won't then have the profit left in the bike to be able to do your first service for free.

If you're a nice guy to deal with...I may think that throwing in the first service for free is worth it purely for the sake of a sale...I may not. I may give you a helmet etc instead. Each deal/bike is different, and comes down to margin/keenness for the dealer to sell said bike.

But don't for a minute think that the distributors give us enough margin to give all manner of shit away...cause it ain't the case.

"how come I didnt get anything for free?"

"cos you're a cock"

:sunny:

[Crasherfromwayback]

"how come I didnt get anything for free?"

"cos you're a cock"

:sunny:

You'd get a cock for free!

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, I'm pedantic.:yes:

Yeah...must check replies before calling people dummies whilst being a dummy!

[Gremlin]

My question in the OP was possibly too vague......perhaps I should have said why is scheduled maintenance not fixed price?
Because there isn't a fixed manner in which we all ride our bikes. Also, the bikes are not clones of each other, and the odd things could arise by the first service. Easiest way to demonstrate, is that simply one of a model could have a better motor, or a straighter frame, etc. We're talking about tiny tolerances, but they are there.


This isn't a penny pinching exercise. If it was the question would have been...why is the first service so expensive?
Good... nice to see no penny pinching. My other point in the post was... $150-200 isn't expensive...


It's not scheduled maintenance, it's a scheduled check-up followed by whatever work needs doing.
Actually, it's a service. As are all the others. There are just different levels of servicing. For example, a KTM I had used a run in oil, different from the regular oil, and that was changed out at the first service. From memory, the first service on all bikes includes an oil change? Someone from a bike shop would be able to confirm that... but I believed it was because of the brand new engine etc.

[Bassmatt]

Well it goes like this (you're obviously pendantic and none too smart)...

If you ask me for $1000.00 off, I may do that for you. But I certainly won't then have the profit left in the bike to be able to do your first service for free


Quote Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback View Post
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Why shouldn't the owner pay for time used? New bikes often need going over with a fine toothed comb. Bolts/spokes etc often come loose during break in and need tightning/adjustment. That margin is certainly not built into the profit on a new bike...so the dealer shouldn't be out of pocket checking it all.

There is a margin, there is no margin.

If i'm none too smart you are a fucken moron.

[EJK]

Couple of years ago I booked for a two stroke top end rebuild. They estimated and said to me it'll cost me around $400. Later they end up charging me $800+.

Last year their shop closed down.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If i'm none too smart you are a fucken moron.

Really? I'm not the guy comparing a motorcycle to a house...

[Bassmatt]

Really? I'm not the guy comparing a motorcycle to a house...

You have already shown you can't comprehend your own posts, I'm not surprised you are struggling with that.

[Madness]

I think all you cunts should smoke some more P and just get on with it.

:shit:

[Crasherfromwayback]

You have already shown you can't comprehend your own posts, I'm not surprised you are struggling with that.

No. I struggle with people that have nothing better to do than moan about trivial shit.

[5150]

I think all you cunts should smoke some more P and just get on with it.

:shit:

Then take me to your dealer :wacko:

[Bassmatt]

No. I struggle with people that have nothing better to do than moan about trivial shit.

'tis the way of the KBer :facepalm:

[gijoe1313]

All horses for courses, using Gremlin and I as an example (quite painful for him!) - the servicing on his one KTM vastly exceeded the outlay for servicing on my fleet of motorbikes put together.

Just his "standard" servicing bills were eye-watering to say the least! But, the value of his bike being safe and up to standard was what he was prepared to pay for.

As for me, the two brand new bikes I had under warranty were always serviced right and proper by my dealer - who has worked hard to ensure that they were looked after and accommodating to my peculiarities (something about me always exceeding the 1000km on the first day of ownership and all that).

I like working on bikes, and my other bikes are spannered about by me - I can only scathingly blame any failure or mistakes on the hamfisted idiot that was working on them!

I'm pretty sure that when things go out of spec, as Gremlin's shocks did on his KTM due to his unique way of riding - he had to pay for the servicing of them, hard to give and exact quote on what would be needed, but obviously it'd cost some coin! As handy as I am on things mechanical, there are times when I leave it to the professional instead of trying to save a few bucks by "having a go". I get a rough approximation of the cost in order to know how much I got left in the bank for it (and a margin) versus eating baked beans on toast until next payday!

The only real beef is when you pay your hard earnt coin and then find out that what you paid for, did not resemble the service you thought you were paying for! That's when the defecate hits the oscillating machine!

[Robert Taylor]

No, but my house is built to withstand the stresses its expected to encounter.
You are clearly stating that this is not the case for motorbikes

I think you should go and work in a motorcycle shop for several months, THEN AND ONLY THEN you will comprehend. Crasher from way back has aatempted to explian to you and he works in one, he knows

[Robert Taylor]

I must admit that most motorcycle workshops (in the UK) I've dealt with have given me a fixed price for a service. If they find something not covered in the service as they are checking they let me know and give me a quote to do that work.

Mind you it's a long time since I took a bike to a workshop to be serviced.

Great for the people that got a free first service. I was happy with the deal I got, and taking the bike back to where it was purchased from for a service isn't practical.

First free services were commonplace through the industry several years back, now they are less common as margins have eroded significantly. In many cases its now unsustainable to offer a first free service, and if one is offered are corners being cut?

[Robert Taylor]

No. I'm simply telling you motorcycles are a different kettle of fish, and require complete going over from new to be safe once things settle/bed in. If you'd like your bike to weight 500kg, it wouldn't be a problem. They could use nylocks nuts on everything...much bigger bolts etc. But then you'd cry like a little bitch that your bike was too heavy for you. Maybe you should stick to cars/tractors?

We used to get it with farm atv's all the time. ''My car needs less servicing and costs a lot less to do so" .... '' Yeah but do you drive it over the farm all day, cross rivers and tow stuff around the farm with it? "

[Robert Taylor]

You may find they simply don't want to do business with a p fried hothead.

+ 1 to that.

[Scouse]

So some owners expect motorcycle shops & their mechanics to "guess" (or mind read) "exactly" what work is required when servicing an unseen bike?(regardless of k's!)

Come on!:shutup:

Every bike shop "tries" to give a service figure, but with out actually checking the bike over, how the hell are they supposed to know exactly what needs doing and the associated costs involved.

And forgive me for pointing this out, but.....what about the riders obligation to ensure they "know" their ride and that it is kept safe & well maintained?
...its called pre-checks & home maintenance!.

If you have a bike and don't regularly check it over for possible faults, required maintenance, tyre pressure, leaks etc etc...then YOUR the one not doing your job properly! (And you WILL be surprised at service time when the bill reflects your inability to do basic maintenance & checks)

To "ride it" is only PART of the program, to know your bike, its mechanical state and what work may be required in the near future is a BIG part of owning a motorcycle, and one that will keep you riding safer and with more cash in the back pocket :yes:

Don't give a bike shop the opportunity to tell you that bolts are loose and the tires actually require air in them to function properly etc, check your Bike before every ride & start doing regular maintenance checks at home to address these basic issues BEFORE going to a shop and paying someone to do YOUR maintenance.

As for 1000k first service...its just that...FIRST SERVICE!, its the best possible time to check the whole bike over for any possible Manufacturing faults, defect parts, settling in movement etc etc, or to just bring to the new owners attention that lack of regular servicing has resulted in, or may result in damage if not regulary done.

...in short it comes down to "an inquiry into values" :msn-wink:...don't ya think?Good reply Willy but your attachment refering to Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence is totaly irelevent I should know I struggled through that book and its reference to Motorcycles is at best very sparse this rambling diatribe took me more than a year to complete and thatis not because I cant read its just that it is a total mind fuck of a book

[Genie]

You'd get a cock for free!

With sauce?

[Berries]

Spokes are the worst things generally. So if you don't have 'em...things are pretty straight forward.
Yeah, cos the wheels won't go round so there will be no vibration to loosen any bolts.

[ynot slow]

When buying a new bike surely you would factor in the required servicing costs before buying.When I was looking at a new bike in 08 Suzukifest promo I enquired to approx costs for 1,6,12,18000km services to factor in my purchase,and required servicing over 2 yrs or so.

[ukusa]

There's some fucking dumb arguments & examples given in this thread, along with a whole lot of BS.
What is so difficult about providing a fixed quote (std price) for the first service.
My local does.
Simple formula,
1 x oil filter
X litres of oil ( X being based on your bikes capacity)
1 hour labour (or thereabouts, the mechanic must know how long a check + oil/filter change takes)
Anything else must surely be a warranty issue at 1000 kms!
If you broke anything, that can be added on, but the formula for the std service seems so fucking easy to acheive.

[willytheekid]

Good reply Willy but your attachment refering to Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence is totaly irelevent I should know I struggled through that book and its reference to Motorcycles is at best very sparse this rambling diatribe took me more than a year to complete and thatis not because I cant read its just that it is a total mind fuck of a book

:laugh: yeah its a mother of a book ay!
I read it years ago (In my hippie biker yrs) and found it was quite a good read (I really enjoyed it actually)....bloody hard to get your head around tho, a mate of mine read it and thought it was absolute S@#@T!!...but then everyones got different tastes :yes:

I added it my post due to the abstract thought process shown in the book towards bike maintenance and the differing views towards it...thought the OP could do with a change of mind set towards his "problem" (but judging by his replys...I don't see anything helping IMHO)

Fav Quote:
“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”

-thats some deepshit right there man!:eek5:
.....Now I come to think of it.....Im so glad I gave up smoking weed!:killingme

Take care Scouse, always good to hear from you :2thumbsup

[nodrog]

There's some fucking dumb arguments & examples given in this thread, along with a whole lot of BS.
What is so difficult about providing a fixed quote (std price) for the first service.
My local does.
Simple formula,
1 x oil filter
X litres of oil ( X being based on your bikes capacity)
1 hour labour (or thereabouts, the mechanic must know how long a check + oil/filter change takes)
Anything else must surely be a warranty issue at 1000 kms!
If you broke anything, that can be added on, but the formula for the std service seems so fucking easy to acheive.

For fucksake :facepalm:

The $150 is the fixed price (the total of which will be payed by customer), the margin between $150 - $200 is allowing for anything else that is not covered by warranty to be done (which, part of, all of, or none of will be required to be payed by customer).

if you want a fixed price, then sure, its $200 thanks.

If you cunts cant understand that, god knows how you managed to log onto a fucken computer.

[Mad-V2]

200 DOLLARS!!!! I can get a service for at least $150!!!!

Just fuckin with ya :innocent:

[Usarka]

Is there a happy finish?

[bluninja]

I added it my post due to the abstract thought process shown in the book towards bike maintenance and the differing views towards it...thought the OP could do with a change of mind set towards his "problem" (but judging by his replys...I don't see anything helping IMHO)



I'm happy with my paradigm, there is no 'problem'. Seems rather than answering the question, most posters are creating their own mental picture and adding things that don't exist (the 'problem') based on their own predilictions. It's almost like a form of transferrance.

Still it wouldn't be as entertaining and informative if you did.

[ukusa]

For fucksake :facepalm:

The $150 is the fixed price (the total of which will be payed by customer), the margin between $150 - $200 is allowing for anything else that is not covered by warranty to be done (which, part of, all of, or none of will be required to be payed by customer).

if you want a fixed price, then sure, its $200 thanks.

If you cunts cant understand that, god knows how you managed to log onto a fucken computer.

Ah, so it's now a maximum of $200, and because that was the quote, no matter what else needs to be done it will never go over that, clever :thud:

[davebullet]

In my case the dealer at the 10,000km reflashed the ECU with the wrong tune (even though I never asked for a tune?) Maybe the Triumph diagnostic software just decided to rape it. It sounded like a shotgun on decel. :blink:

[bluninja]

So did he charge $150 for the service and $50 for the not so flash flash ? :shit:

[davebullet]

To the dealers defence, I don't think they know what happened.

PS: I got charged a little more than the estimate. But I'm not complaining about the price. I just thought reprogramming the ECU was funny

[Crasherfromwayback]

To the dealers defence, I don't think they know what happened.

PS: I got charged a little more than the estimate. But I'm not complaining about the price. I just thought reprogramming the ECU was funny

Quite often the distributor supplies us updated programes and downloads they want us to install.

[Gremlin]

Quite often the distributor supplies us updated programes and downloads they want us to install.
Wot e said. An update would have been issued, usually to fine tune the economy, running, etc, as they learn more, from the bike being out. When your bike is hooked up to the diagnostics, it comes up saying this model has updates etc, so they apply them.

Went through all sorts of joys with that and aftermarket tuning a year or two ago... never jumping into that fire again (long story short, the aftermarket over-rode everything the KTM guys tried to do... bit of a pain when trying to fix problems aye?)

[nodrog]

Ah, so it's now a maximum of $200, and because that was the quote, no matter what else needs to be done it will never go over that, clever :thud:

correct, and if only $150 worth of work is needed, you still pay $200 because of your requirement for a fixed price.

P.S. who helped you to log on?

[ukusa]

correct, and if only $150 worth of work is needed, you still pay $200 because of your requirement for a fixed price.

P.S. who helped you to log on?

Did you actually read the first post (I'm assuming you can read).

I've probably been logging on since before you got your first 2 wheeler.

[nodrog]

Did you actually read the first post (I'm assuming you can read).

I've probably been logging on since before you got your first 2 wheeler.

maybe you should go back and read it

[husaberg]

maybe you should go back and read it

:sick:Are use two ladies going to duke it out.
I love a good:girlfight:

Did you hear what she called you!:innocent:

My money is on the ugly one :corn:

[bluninja]

So one first service, includes oil & filter change, $10 for sundries, checks and stamp in warranty book: $159.25.

[wysper]

So one first service, includes oil & filter change, $10 for sundries, checks and stamp in warranty book: $159.25.

Just as a matter of interst, if the guy had said something like "The service will be $200, if there is anything outside the normal service or warranty issues we will call you with a revised estimate" would you have still posted?

[bluninja]

Just as a matter of interst, if the guy had said something like "The service will be $200, if there is anything outside the normal service or warranty issues we will call you with a revised estimate" would you have still posted?

I certainly wouldn't have posted 'why so vague' :Punk:

[jonbuoy]

So one first service, includes oil & filter change, $10 for sundries, checks and stamp in warranty book: $159.25.

Wouldn't vague be saying Something like less than 500 dollars?? He quoted 150-200 and you paid 159.25 seems pretty acurate.

[johan]

I can't believe I've read four pages of this depressing thread already...

[Owl]

In my case the dealer at the 10,000km reflashed the ECU with the wrong tune (even though I never asked for a tune?) Maybe the Triumph diagnostic software just decided to rape it. It sounded like a shotgun on decel. :blink:

Buy yourself the cable Dave and then you can sort it yourself. You've been there, done that!:yes:

Your next worry will be the starter clutch failure (hopefully you'll be right), cause now you'll have to bring it up to 2011 spec. Be more cost effective to dismantle the bike and sell it off as parts.

Worried?:shutup:

[bluninja]

Wouldn't vague be saying Something like less than 500 dollars?? He quoted 150-200 and you paid 159.25 seems pretty acurate.

Nah! if he'd quoted $150 then the quote would have been within 10%

$150-200 is a margin of 33% on the lower figure. A 33% spread to me is vague.

[bsasuper]

First service should be free, did you say that you want first one free with the deal?, I suggest next time anyone buys a brand new bike , get the first service free, I always got it when I purchased new.