Are cagers too far disconnected?

[Scuba_Steve]

I (most probably like most of you) enjoy driving/riding I don't do it just to get places, I do it becuase I love it.
But it's got me thinking are modern cages too far disconnected from the road???
Sparked by this in the Dom post (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5776440/Driver-did-127kmh-in-a-50kmh-zone)

"Giannoutsos had only recently bought the car and was having trouble with it, including being unable to work out the speed he was going because the lights on the dashboard were not working"

My 1st thought was "fucking moron even without a speedo it's not hard to tell ya doing over 100", but then I realized, while still a fucking moron, he might not have realized the speed.
Most modern cages (Euros being the 1st) take the road experience away from the user, suspension takes any feeling away, pedals are no longer connected to that which they control, fully sealed, sound deaded & even slightly pressurized cabs remove all perception of speed/moverment, hell even the steering is no longer connected to the wheels.

A modern cage driver is fully seperated from the road they are driving on all in the name of "comfort". I myself cannot stand these modern monstrosities I like to feel connected, I like to be in control, I like to drive!!! I'll continue to stick to 80's & early 90's cages becuase of this, but I do think this "comfort" is starting to have a real detrimental effect on safety.

Maybee thats part the reason why beemers & mercs are such bad drivers??? These 2 manufacturers do lead the way when it comes to "comfort" features, and if your've ever driven a modern one you know how far disconected you are from the road, its sorta like driving a car on the PS2.

[Indiana_Jones]

I agree somewhat to this. When I drive my sisters Polo the speed can creep up on you slowly without you noticing.

While in the Wolseley you know what speed you're doing pretty much all the time without looking at the speedo.

Also the Polo is an Auto, and the crab a manaul. Granted auto is nice sometimes, but I prefer manual.

But doing 127km/h in a 50km/h zone? yea I don't think so Tim..... lol

-Indy

[imdying]

No. The average Kiwi could crash a gokart with no seat padding. The average dark skinned immigrant should've been shot even for asking for a license.

[martybabe]

I won a 2010 auto car, it has ABS, traction control stuff, air conditioning, usb hi-fi,ipod connectivity etc etc.

So yes, basically all I have to do is point it and press the go and slow pedals, oh and keep an eye on the speedo, wouldn't want to be an evil criminal type. It is in reality, idle and cosseting transport with very little input from the outside world. It is so easy and so removed from 'the art of driving' it could be argued that it is a potentially a dangerous vehicle to drive, isolating the driver as it does from the process of 'driving'.

Contrast that with the bike: I have to choose what to wear for safety and comfort before I even start the engine, I have to take into account the weather, the road conditions, the suspension settings, tyre pressures. I get too hot too wet and too cold all within an hours ride. I have to use a clutch, change gear and brake correctly balancing front and back. I have no airbags, no traction control no windscreen wipers, no abs , no inherent stability. I have to take into account the behaviour of every other cosseted driver on the road and effectively drive for them as they are usually unaware or don't care about the threat they pose to my very existence.

All these many considerations and actions just to pop to the shops vs Mr sleepy, isolated, distracted, jandle wearing, smoking, eating, make up doing, average ability, taught by my Mom on the farm driver, in their warm dry almost drive itself modern car.

Perhaps Mythically rather than factually, Volvo drivers are considered to be the biggest danger to motorcyclists in the UK and Volvos have long since been atop most of the spec sheets for comfort, safety and all the gizmos that isolate the driver most from the chore of driving, go figure.

[Mental Trousers]

You're just catching onto this now?? Don't you spend a lot of time travelling on the road in a number of different cars?? I thought you would've noticed how divorced from driving people are in modern vehicles.

These days cars are more comfortable, suspension and chassis are far more capable, electronic aids compensate for more and more. Your average driver is able to make many more mistakes and the vehicles will compensate to keep them safe without them knowing just how close they came to an accident. Because modern cars do such a good job of looking after the drivers and passengers they don't even realize when they've made a mistake. So if they don't know they've made a mistake they'll keep making them over and over.

[bogan]

I think so, I certainly notice more obstructions to being connected when I drive. Are BMW and merc driver really worse off? When I drive my old man's BMW I pay more attention, cos that shit is expensive :p

My flatmate said something rather indicative of some cagers last night; "If we could go 130 I would be safer because I would pay more attention to the road" :facepalm: Why not just pay attention anyway, it's not like there is anything more important to do when you are driving!

[bluninja]

My SAAB could be set to beep if I exceeded a certain speed so who needs to loook at the speedo?

As for is a cage driver too cossetted? Latest bikes now have traction control, and there's helmets with blue tooth speakers for your phone/gps/ipod, warmed seats, warmed grips, heated jackets.

I think people will choose their own level of enviromental input versus comfort. If only we could make idiot drivers and riders choose to be more comfortable sitting back relaxing whilst someone else drives for them :)

[george formby]

Yup, I find modern cars eerie to drive, magic carpet ride & widescreen TV. I usually end up winding my window down to achieve a sense of motion & connection.

I like the way Toyota have defended their system which enables a driver to text whilst on the move, putting full emphasis on the drivers discretion.:facepalm:

[avgas]

Errrr no offense. But I think both of you need to think long and hard about how you might have a different (if not out dated) perspective to this.

I recall my first 'stealing' my dad's NEW 98 Triumph 955i. Now I was used to old bikes that rattled, or small bikes that were gutless.

Within a short matter of time, I shat myself while noticing the speedo.
I was doing 200kph and I did not notice.

Now I know I was going faster that I should have.....but 200kph+ it blew my young mind.

Likewise once I was going full speed in my Vauxhall rust wagon, the might 79 Chevanne. And I opened the window.
A catagory 5 storm would have felt more gentle. I swear the car buffeted the 100kph wind to 500kph. Bits of paper that were in the back seat were now airborne and attacking me in 'fly-bys'.

Yet wind down the windows in the new 335i and you have no idea how strong the wind is until you stick you head out of the car.

but I will let you guys go now. I know you have to crank the handle on the old girl and start driving home before your electrics fail.

[Scuba_Steve]

No. The average Kiwi could crash a gokart with no seat padding.
Yes but now take him out & let him drive it with radio controller, do you think he'll get better or worse???


You're just catching onto this now?? Don't you spend a lot of time travelling on the road in a number of different cars?? I thought you would've noticed how divorced from driving people are in modern vehicles.
I caught on along time ago, just decided to put it into text now


I think so, I certainly notice more obstructions to being connected when I drive. Are BMW and merc driver really worse off? When I drive my old man's BMW I pay more attention, cos that shit is expensive :p

My flatmate said something rather indicative of some cagers last night; "If we could go 130 I would be safer because I would pay more attention to the road" :facepalm: Why not just pay attention anyway, it's not like there is anything more important to do when you are driving!

BMW & Merc I would say are worse off, they are at the forefront of dangerous comfort. Last I drove was a 2009 I think? and with thick walls, no feeling/feedback in pedals, steering, suspension etc & absolutly silent inside (& of-course fucking auto!) I had nothing I was just pointing it & saying go or stop I was totally disconnected & it gets hard to stay focused when your not part of the action as such

Which is proably what your faltmate atually means, when you cruise along you start to "wonder" ohh look at the beach, look at the sunset, look at the guy with his head up a cow etc & that is dangerous, whereas when your travelling a decent speed (part of the action) your focused on that nothing else.

[imdying]

Yes but now take him out & let him drive it with radio controller, do you think he'll get better or worse???Self drive, RC, or Harry Potter mind control shit... without proper training the average Kiwi will still stack it.

[Big Dave]

't aint the arrow - it's the Indian.

[2Seat_Terror]

...yes. Even in a simple little Starlet, IMHO.

[bogan]

Which is proably what your faltmate atually means, when you cruise along you start to "wonder" ohh look at the beach, look at the sunset, look at the guy with his head up a cow etc & that is dangerous, whereas when your travelling a decent speed (part of the action) your focused on that nothing else.

Yeh but you only start to wonder about other shit provided you are still paying enough attention to be safe right? Just because you only need, say 60% attention on a straight road doesn't mean you just round that shit down to 10% :facepalm:

[george formby]

Errrr no offense. But I think both of you need to think long and hard about how you might have a different (if not out dated) perspective to this.

I recall my first 'stealing' my dad's NEW 98 Triumph 955i. Now I was used to old bikes that rattled, or small bikes that were gutless.

Within a short matter of time, I shat myself while noticing the speedo.
I was doing 200kph and I did not notice.

Now I know I was going faster that I should have.....but 200kph+ it blew my young mind.

Likewise once I was going full speed in my Vauxhall rust wagon, the might 79 Chevanne. And I opened the window.
A catagory 5 storm would have felt more gentle. I swear the car buffeted the 100kph wind to 500kph. Bits of paper that were in the back seat were now airborne and attacking me in 'fly-bys'.

Yet wind down the windows in the new 335i and you have no idea how strong the wind is until you stick you head out of the car.

but I will let you guys go now. I know you have to crank the handle on the old girl and start driving home before your electrics fail.

:laugh::laugh: Been their a couple of times, but, I was still looking where I was going.

Thing is, when my electrics do fail I can fix them without taking out a mortgage to turn the ABS light off.

I'm only slightly jealous of modern car owners, but for performance not cosseting. I still regard staying dry as a luxury.

[avgas]

Thing is, when my electrics do fail.....
TDM's don't break down.

They simply get abandoned.

[slofox]

I dunno about that.

I drive a 2002 Subaru wagon. Auto, AWD, ABS, VDC, etc etc etc. But I still feel like I am driving it. And I always have a fair idea of how fast I am going. I don't find that the mod cons make me any less connected to the fact that I am driving.

Maybe it's just me, I dunno. Maybe it's because I drove old shit heaps for centuries and have failed to "learn" the modern laziness...:blink:

[george formby]

TDM's don't break down.

They simply get abandoned.

No ABS on the TDM either, vintage all the way. Admittedly I do need to replace a speedo bulb before I chuck it a ditch.

[george formby]

I dunno about that.

I drive a 2002 Subaru wagon. Auto, AWD, ABS, VDC, etc etc etc. But I still feel like I am driving it. And I always have a fair idea of how fast I am going. I don't find that the mod cons make me any less connected to the fact that I am driving.

Maybe it's just me, I dunno. Maybe it's because I drove old shit heaps for centuries and have failed to "learn" the modern laziness...:blink:

Subarus are involving but still well appointed. Now a friends 4.0ltr Ford executive something or other is what I call totally detached. It's like driving trifle but less tasty.

[Indiana_Jones]

Yeah I think the point of the thread is of all the BS in cars these days

-Indy

[Edbear]

't aint the arrow - it's the Indian.

Now there's a man who can be accurate and succinct all at the same time... :sunny:


I dunno about that.

I drive a 2002 Subaru wagon. Auto, AWD, ABS, VDC, etc etc etc. But I still feel like I am driving it. And I always have a fair idea of how fast I am going. I don't find that the mod cons make me any less connected to the fact that I am driving.

Maybe it's just me, I dunno. Maybe it's because I drove old shit heaps for centuries and have failed to "learn" the modern laziness...:blink:

You're one of the old style Kiwi's who actually learned how to drive properly and it's still with you. Ther aren't enough acronims to describe everything the Kiszashi has, sufffice to say that to crash it or spin it out, you'd have to be an absolute nutcase on steroids!

I still feel like I'm connected to the road and in control as I pass or get passed by ignorants who have their mind everywhere else but on what they are doing... Like the Oh, so upperclass gent driving a new M5 Beemer at erratic speed while trying to text surrepticiously this morning on the Southern Motorway in heavy traffic... :facepalm:

Or the middle-aged lady who tailgated me on the Northern each downhill section only to drop a hundred meters or more back on the slight up-hill sections and must have had to do in excess of 120km/h to catch me up on the next downhill so she could sit a metre or so from my rear bumper again. I had the cruise control on at a steady 104 on the GPS and the Suzuki jusat sat at that speed up or down the gradients. Her speedo must have been varying from 90 - 120+! :blink:

[Edbear]

't aint the arrow - it's the Indian.

Now there's a man who can be accurate and succinct all at the same time... :sunny:


I dunno about that.

I drive a 2002 Subaru wagon. Auto, AWD, ABS, VDC, etc etc etc. But I still feel like I am driving it. And I always have a fair idea of how fast I am going. I don't find that the mod cons make me any less connected to the fact that I am driving.

Maybe it's just me, I dunno. Maybe it's because I drove old shit heaps for centuries and have failed to "learn" the modern laziness...:blink:

You're one of the old style Kiwi's who actually learned how to drive properly and it's still with you. Ther aren't enough acronims to describe everything the Kiszashi has, sufffice to say that to crash it or spin it out, you'd have to be an absolute nutcase on steroids!

I still feel like I'm connected to the road and in control as I pass or get passed by ignorants who have their mind everywhere else but on what they are doing... Like the Oh, so upperclass gent driving a new M5 Beemer at erratic speed while trying to text surrepticiously this morning on the Southern Motorway in heavy traffic... :facepalm:

Or the middle-aged lady who tailgated me on the Northern each downhill section only to drop a hundred meters or more back on the slight up-hill sections and must have had to do in excess of 120km/h to catch me up on the next downhill so she could sit a metre or so from my rear bumper again. I had the cruise control on at a steady 104 on the GPS and the Suzuki just sat at that speed up or down the gradients. Her speedo must have been varying from 90 - 120+! :blink:

[scumdog]

Yeah I think the point of the thread is of all the BS in cars these days

-Indy

Most of which I don't need.

And even more I'd never use.

They're freakin' cars - not mobile pleasure palaces.<_<

[Usarka]

Drive down the road at 60kph and give the steering wheel a short but sharp turn then let go. Car carries on in straight line. Safety design feature of modernish cars.

How can something like that be "connected"?

[scumdog]

I (most probably like most of you) enjoy driving/riding I don't do it just to get places, I do it becuase I love it.
But it's got me thinking are modern cages too far disconnected from the road???
.

Yup, nothing like feeling a few rattles, draughts and bumps to make you realise that yes, you ARE driving, not just dreaming it.

[Edbear]

Yup, nothing like feeling a few rattles, draughts and bumps to make you realise that yes, you ARE driving, not just dreaming it.

That's when we take the MX5 out for a spin, to remnd us how much fun driving can be.

[Indiana_Jones]

Most of which I don't need.

And even more I'd never use.

They're freakin' cars - not mobile pleasure palaces.<_<

Exactly lol.

Granted I do have a heater in my car, I just stick on a jacket or jumper if I get cold. Hell it doesn't even have a fag lighter! but has ash trays.

If I get too hot I wind down the window! :shit:

-Indy

[steve_t]

Most people only drive one or two cars on a week-to-week basis. Whatever you drive, you quickly get accustomed to it have nothing to reference it against. I always think my subaru is hard sprung and very connected to the road but after a session of go-karting, getting in the subaru feels like i'm piloting a boat (nowhere near Tauranga)

[Hitcher]

are modern cages too far disconnected from the road???

Good question. But I suspect that you mean cagers (the people who drive) rather than the cages they drive around in. Modern cages are extremely well connected to the road, largely thanks to gravity and the profile of their tyres.

[Usarka]

Firestone have a good profile I see their ad's all over the place.

[Sable]

That's when we take the MX5 out for a spin, to remnd us how much fun driving can be.

I believe your type usually refer to that as 'cruising'.

[onearmedbandit]

Most modern cages (Euros being the 1st) take the road experience away from the user, suspension takes any feeling away, pedals are no longer connected to that which they control, fully sealed, sound deaded & even slightly pressurized cabs remove all perception of speed/moverment, hell even the steering is no longer connected to the wheels.

A modern cage driver is fully seperated from the road they are driving on all in the name of "comfort". I myself cannot stand these modern monstrosities I like to feel connected, I like to be in control, I like to drive!!! I'll continue to stick to 80's & early 90's cages becuase of this, but I do think this "comfort" is starting to have a real detrimental effect on safety.

Maybee thats part the reason why beemers & mercs are such bad drivers??? These 2 manufacturers do lead the way when it comes to "comfort" features, and if your've ever driven a modern one you know how far disconected you are from the road, its sorta like driving a car on the PS2.

Spend a lot of time driving these cars do you? I do, it's my job. Audi's, BMW's, Merc's. And whilst they all drive far better than any Japanese car, they most certainly do not disconnect you from the driving experience any more than any Japanese vehicle, in fact they accentuate it with far better response and road handling. Maybe it's all just a matter of opinion.

And what car prey tell no longer has the steering connected to the wheels? (Do I take it that you mean the steering wheel?) It is a requirement that all vehicles have a mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering wheels. Unless you mean power steer. Which has been common place on most vehicles since the 80's (except NZ new vehicles lol).

As someone else paraphrased, don't blame the car, blame the driver. Cars don't crash by themselves. People instruct them to crash.

[MIXONE]

The car he was driving was a 99 Merc and the dash lights were fucked so hardly a modern,well appointed car eh...

[onearmedbandit]

Depending on the model a '99 Merc may still be more highly appointed than a 2011 mid-range vehicle. It will certainly be ahead of a sub $20k 2011 vehicle.

[bogan]

People instruct them to crash.

Or forget to instruct them not to!

[EJK]

Maybee thats part the reason why beemers & mercs are such bad drivers??? These 2 manufacturers do lead the way when it comes to "comfort" features, and if your've ever driven a modern one you know how far disconected you are from the road, its sorta like driving a car on the PS2.

They are purposely designed to cruise on the Autobahn, not some 100kph limit in NZ.

[onearmedbandit]

I find MB C and E class vehicles to be quite rewarding to drive, same as BMW's 3 and 5 series. The S class (AMG excluded) and 7 series however are not so inspiring. But that doesn't make me drive them with any less care and attention.

[Big Dave]

I find MB C and E class vehicles to be quite rewarding to drive, same as BMW's 3 and 5 series. The S class (AMG excluded) and 7 series however are not so inspiring. But that doesn't make me drive them with any less care and attention.

We had a E55 AMG for a while. Accelerated like a Hyabusa. You'd never use it all on the road, no spare tyre, yada yada, so we swapped it over for the S500 we still have now.

Wouldn't mind 'connecting' with one of these newer ones:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/q_Op3HvakKc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[superman]

Once computer driven cars are mainstream it'll be only those who truly enjoy driving or riding that will actively control their vehicle. Those who are disconnected will get their wish of being even more disconnected and a car will become a transportable private lounge.

[jonbuoy]

One thing I notice between my mgb gt and other modern cars is the visibility, the mgb has no blindspots to speak of, modern cars have massive vertical pillars which have huge blindspots. You need to keep bobbing your head around them to see properly. X

[Indiana_Jones]

One thing I notice between my mgb gt and other modern cars is the visibility, the mgb has no blindspots to speak of, modern cars have massive vertical pillars which have huge blindspots. You need to keep bobbing your head around them to see properly. X

Chrome or rubber bumper?

When I drove my BGT, the only blind spot really was the car in front. Since the car is so damn low you can't ee anything of the road in front if there's another car there :lol:

-Indy

[Edbear]

I believe your type usually refer to that as 'cruising'.


We had a E55 AMG for a while. Accelerated like a Hyabusa. You'd never use it all on the road, no spare tyre, yada yada, so we swapped it over for the S500 we still have now.

Wouldn't mind 'connecting' with one of these newer ones:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/q_Op3HvakKc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My mate's had his E55 AMG for a few years now and loves it! He drives a vehicle as they were intended and doesn't baby it. Mind bending to watch the fuel use when he gives it the berries!

[Edbear]

I believe your type usually refer to that as 'cruising'.

My type? What might that be? Yes I like to cruise and enjoy the scenery which suited the C50T but as with the MX5 they can step right along if you ask the question! Several friends have been very impressed with what I can do with modest HP...

If you put Shaun or Craig Shirriffs on a 250 there'd be precious few who could match them on the road.

The MX5 is testament to what you can do with just 130hp...

[Indiana_Jones]

The MX5 is testament to what you can do with just 130hp...

Shit I wish I had 100 bhp lol

-Indy

[imdying]

One thing I notice between my mgb gt and other modern cars is the visibility, the mgb has no blindspots to speak of, modern cars have massive vertical pillars which have huge blindspots. You need to keep bobbing your head around them to see properly. XIf you get punted upside down by a courier driver yet again running a red light, you'll probably die in the MGB GT.

[Indiana_Jones]

If you get punted upside down by a courier driver yet again running a red light, you'll probably die in the MGB GT.

Well a B I could understand.....but in a GT?

-Indy

[Edbear]

Well a B I could understand.....but in a GT?

-Indy

'Fraid so, even the MX5 offers very little protection and a girl was seriously injured in an accident in a Austin 1300 due to it not having a crumple zone. Crash a Ford Customline into a modern Mercedes and the Customline driver would die and the Merc driver would probably walk away.

The older cars didn't have coolapsible steering columns either so the column would spear the driver through the chest and without crumple zones, all the force of the accident was transferred to the occupants rather than being dispersed through the car body. The Kizashi has 7 airbags, a purpose built safety cell for the occupants and crumple zones front, rear and side to absorb the forces. The steel body is high strength galvanised and the chassis has the best available componentry for suspension and braking including EBS, ABS, ESP and EBA. It is one of the safest vehicles on the road if things turn bad, but it is also great to drive on a twisty hilly road - it handles and performs like a sports car! The brakes and steering, (electric power steer), are fabulous, you can place it accurately in the corners and with the CVT in manual mode, using the paddle shifters you can drive like a true sports car! On the motorway, it cruises like a limosine. With cruise control I can concentrate on traffic rather than the speedo, too.

The designers of modern vehicles examine driving feel and chassis performance to give the best inherent, or passive safety they can then add the electronic assists to help the "average" driver cope with things that would otherwise result in a crash.

It's one thing to bemoan the lack of driving skill, but that doesn't stop people from driving, the plain facts are that without these advances in vehicle safety, we would see far more death and injury on the road.

Having a vehicle from both eras, one without any of the modern stuff except power steer and brakes and one with eveything you can think of, they drive very differently and each is very enjoyable in its own right for different reasons. It is a hard choice to make should I contemplate a long tour through NZ as to which car I'd take!

[Indiana_Jones]

Sounds dangerous.

I believe in my car the engine will go under the car, which is good. No crumple zones of course, nor any head rests..... =/

Nor do I need seatbelts in the back legally lol

Safety first!

-Indy

[jonbuoy]

If you get punted upside down by a courier driver yet again running a red light, you'll probably die in the MGB GT.

Yup its a lot like riding a bike, noisy, involved, not much better protected and people don't see you. -Indy its a 69 chrome bumper, yes it is low, like riding a bike you have to plan ahead a bit more and assume no one has seen you and leave plenty of distance to the vehicle in front so you can stand a chance of seeing around them. To be fair to the gt they did well in crash tests of the day. Later ones like you had before had a saftey steering column.

[slowpoke]

Spend a lot of time driving these cars do you? I do, it's my job. Audi's, BMW's, Merc's. And whilst they all drive far better than any Japanese car, they most certainly do not disconnect you from the driving experience any more than any Japanese vehicle, in fact they accentuate it with far better response and road handling. Maybe it's all just a matter of opinion.

As someone else paraphrased, don't blame the car, blame the driver. Cars don't crash by themselves. People instruct them to crash.

Absolutely on the money OAB. We had a 5 yr old E36 M3 a few years ago back in Oz and it was a gamechanger for us. So much more involving and fun to drive compared to similar priced newer aus/japanese cars we'd previously been looking at.

We've got an old yank-mobile in the shed for occasional use and just picked up another kraut-mobile for daily use. Jaysus, the 8 year old german doesn't half show you how far motoring has come since 1970, and makes anything new for the same money look pretty sad.....except when you talk fuel consumption, which I'd rather not if you don't mind, lol. The septic tank is good for a giggle but so many things distract you from the road unlike the newer car which is all about reducing distraction leaving you free to just concentrate on driving. We got it precisely because of how much fun it is to drive, while still able to tow the empire state building up our steep 350m corrugated gravel driveway. We couldn't find anything else, except a newer version of the same thing, for twice the money that would do the same job and still be as much fun to drive.


We had a E55 AMG for a while. Accelerated like a Hyabusa.

When we went to pick up the new wagon we flew into Auckland and the car salesman came and picked me up in an E55 AMG....faaark'n awesome! Never thought of myself as the merc type until then, and even the sales dude had a grin on his face when he gave it a bit of stick. Go 'round a left hand corner and the r/h side of the seat inflates to support you, haha. Just a sensational car and a bargain these days.

[Big Dave]

I have a Jeep Cherokee Sport now too. It's a great tank!

[Scuba_Steve]

I have a Jeep Cherokee Sport now too. It's a great tank!

if it's a newer model, you won't be saying that after a crash

[pete376403]

My mate's had his E55 AMG for a few years now and loves it! He drives a vehicle as they were intended and doesn't baby it. Mind bending to watch the fuel use when he gives it the berries!

similar no doubt to my friends cars consumption when booted hard - the trip computer was reporting 1 litre per kilometer (Bentley Turbo)

[Big Dave]

if it's a newer model, you won't be saying that after a crash

Nah - Older 'square' one.

http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/.public/10pics2/fleet.jpg

[avgas]

Sounds dangerous.

I believe in my car the engine will go under the car, which is good. No crumple zones of course, nor any head rests..... =/

Nor do I need seatbelts in the back legally lol

Safety first!

-Indy
Don't forget that if the accident shoves the engine back in an old brit car is shoves the gear box and all three pedals get shoved into the cavity where you legs used to be.
DAMHIK
New landy's still had this problem up until 2005. Which is why they only got 1/5 Ancap stars

[Indiana_Jones]

Don't forget that if the accident shoves the engine back in an old brit car is shoves the gear box and all three pedals get shoved into the cavity where you legs used to be.
DAMHIK
New landy's still had this problem up until 2005. Which is why they only got 1/5 Ancap stars

Well here's hoping I won't ever have to find out!

-Indy

[Scuba_Steve]

Nah - Older 'square' one.

http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/.public/10pics2/fleet.jpg

hope it doesn't stay that colour all the time :lol:

[oldrider]

I (most probably like most of you) enjoy driving/riding I don't do it just to get places, I do it becuase I love it.
But it's got me thinking are modern cages too far disconnected from the road???
Sparked by this in the Dom post (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5776440/Driver-did-127kmh-in-a-50kmh-zone)

"Giannoutsos had only recently bought the car and was having trouble with it, including being unable to work out the speed he was going because the lights on the dashboard were not working"

My 1st thought was "fucking moron even without a speedo it's not hard to tell ya doing over 100", but then I realized, while still a fucking moron, he might not have realized the speed.
Most modern cages (Euros being the 1st) take the road experience away from the user, suspension takes any feeling away, pedals are no longer connected to that which they control, fully sealed, sound deaded & even slightly pressurized cabs remove all perception of speed/moverment, hell even the steering is no longer connected to the wheels.

A modern cage driver is fully seperated from the road they are driving on all in the name of "comfort". I myself cannot stand these modern monstrosities I like to feel connected, I like to be in control, I like to drive!!! I'll continue to stick to 80's & early 90's cages becuase of this, but I do think this "comfort" is starting to have a real detrimental effect on safety.

Maybee thats part the reason why beemers & mercs are such bad drivers??? These 2 manufacturers do lead the way when it comes to "comfort" features, and if your've ever driven a modern one you know how far disconected you are from the road, its sorta like driving a car on the PS2.

True, most modern drivers seem to drive their cars like they drive their TV remote. :mellow:

When a bad scene confronts them, they just try to change channel and carry on sitting in their comfort! :facepalm:

Yes, I think you are quite right, they are disconnected! .... Entirely! :rolleyes: