So have we all given up on ACC?

[Murray]

I thought that there would have been a thread started by now on

http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/acc-surplus-enables-large-levy-reductions/5/104097

A 3.5 Billion surplus in ACC

did a search and didn't find anything regarding this on the site which amazes me as personally this pisses me off and shows that everything Dick Smith has spouted has been pure crap and no one seems to care anymore. Surely someone representing the biking fraternity should be speaking up on this???

[Murray]

"The motor vehicle levies on vehicles and petrol are to remain the same. The solvency in the Motor Vehicle Account is significantly behind the Work and Earners' accounts. Levy reductions will be possible in the next term of Government for motorists if the ongoing performance improvements in ACC are maintained," Dr Smith said.

So if ACC's performance improvements are maintained we get a reduction - so its their fault in the first place - Bastards as I prepare to swallow the latest registration payment:facepalm:

[Tigadee]

Yeah, it's a hard pill to swallow - Nearly $500 for my little 225cc bike. I am penalised for the actions of others...

[Maha]

...to answer the question...yes, about 18 months ago.
The subject has now reefed itself with very little visable angst to the Environment Minister.

[caseye]

Well me ol mate part of the problem is this, those who tried to represent got vilified for even attempting to do so, by their own kind.
Those who became govt advisors/MSL members got paid and guess what, yep they went quiet, those who did not go quiet were removed.
Many here in KB have had a lot to say, most did nothing,waiting to see who did what.
I'm done.

[Mom]

Well me ol mate part of the problem is this, those who tried to represent got vilified for even attempting to do so, by their own kind.
Those who became govt advisors/MSL members got paid and guess what, yep they went quiet, those who did not go quiet were removed.
Many here in KB have had a lot to say, most did nothing,waiting to see who did what.
I'm done.

Shame eh mate? I guess I ran out of oomph in the end, really hard to push shit up hill with a pointy stick. I am still here, but would need one hell of a lot of support to get stuck in again.

ACC was the boat we needed to push, that opportunity was lost just after BIKEOI and the rest as you say is history. Some of us tried. My conscience is clear.

[riffer]

Well me ol mate part of the problem is this, those who tried to represent got vilified for even attempting to do so, by their own kind.
Those who became govt advisors/MSL members got paid and guess what, yep they went quiet, those who did not go quiet were removed.
Many here in KB have had a lot to say, most did nothing,waiting to see who did what.
I'm done.

Summed up pretty well there mate. I just can't wait to see what the remaining members on the MASC (sorry, MOTO-NZ) are going to do with our money next - although apparently the money they were expecting has been greatly reduced as a number of naughty motorcyclists haven't swallowed their pill properly and relicensing numbers are about half what they used to be.

[Scuba_Steve]

Summed up pretty well there mate. I just can't wait to see what the remaining members on the MASC (sorry, MOTO-NZ) are going to do with our money next - although apparently the money they were expecting has been greatly reduced as a number of naughty motorcyclists haven't swallowed their pill properly and relicensing numbers are about half what they used to be.

that is nowhere near low enough, that just sounds like we stopped registering our 2nd bikes.


*no not all bikers have 2 & some have more, I'm averaging it out

[Mom]

although apparently the money they were expecting has been greatly reduced as a number of naughty motorcyclists haven't swallowed their pill properly and relicensing numbers are about half what they used to be.

So this initiative was all about compliance? If these turncoats could convince us bikers to play ball for less levies the govt would invest a decent amount of money in motorcycle safety?

FFS! What a crock of shit!

Wish I had a penis, blow jobs must feel wonderful :tugger:

Those blokes must be beside themselves with pride. They have furthered their political careers, and apparently got away unscathed with shitting on their fellow bikers. Go them!

Just to clarify I am not directing :tugger: to you personally, though it probably read that way, sorry if it did.

[CRF119]

The easy option is just don't pay rego, I wont be its cheaper to get 1 fine per year then pay the reg. If every body stopped paying reg they would quickly get the idea.

[Usarka]

If everyone stopped paying rego you can gaurantee they won't say "d'oh they outsmarted us". The cops would be out in force stopping bikes and issuing fines.

[Katman]

I am penalised for the actions of others...

Maybe not the 'others' you're thinking of though.

[riffer]

So this initiative was all about compliance? If these turncoats could convince us bikers to play ball for less levies the govt would invest a decent amount of money in motorcycle safety?

FFS! What a crock of shit!

Wish I had a penis, blow jobs must feel wonderful :tugger:

Those blokes must be beside themselves with pride. They have furthered their political careers, and apparently got away unscathed with shitting on their fellow bikers. Go them!

Just to clarify I am not directing :tugger: to you personally, though it probably read that way, sorry if it did.


I'm not taking it personally at all Anne. I'm just as annoyed about the ACC thing as anybody else. The MSL, had, at it's heart, good intentions. Pity like all good intentions, the devil is in the details - roads to hell and all that.

I don't personally believe that the members of the MOTONZ council are there purely for the money and to further their political careers at all. From what I've seen there's been a fair bit of work they've had to do and like all government appointed groups they have found that it's one thing to work hard and come up with ideas and another thing to get the Minister to actually do something - that, and the incessant red tape involved in these things seems to make a lot of money get spent for fuck all reward.

And as for your other comment, I'm sure a blow job feels just as good as any other form or oral sex. So I'm sure you're not missing out being female. ;)

[Usarka]

I don't personally believe that the members of the MOTONZ council are there purely for the money and to further their political careers at all.


I still can't help feeling that was a case of Nick keeping his enemies closer.

[riffer]

Maybe not the 'others' you're thinking of though.


Y'know Steve, in my more cynical moments I've been known to muse about whether or not the complete eradication of ALL motorcycle accidents would make a blind bit of difference to this government's attitudes towards the ACC levy for motorcyclists.

I notice with interest that Nick Smith today has today announced a HUGE surplus and also said that the motor vehicle levy and non-workers account "may" be opened up to competition now.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10758664

[riffer]

I still can't help feeling that was a case of Nick keeping his enemies closer.


Nail, meet hammer.

[mashman]

If everyone stopped paying rego you can gaurantee they won't say "d'oh they outsmarted us". The cops would be out in force stopping bikes and issuing fines.

+1... they didn't listen/care and the alternatives are, erm, well, er, yeah... it matters not who shouted loudest, who gave up, who still rails etc... a stance was organised (muchos grassy arse to those who put themselves forwards, MAG and BRONZ) but the govt made their position utterly clear under our "threat" and they knew full well what the outcome would be... after all we can't protest all day every day as we have families/jobs to look after and have absolutely no power to use for offering alternatives in their eyes... and you can't sell off a single account, I mean open it up to competition. User pays kids, bend over and suck it up.

[oracle]

I would be happy to keep paying the ridiculous prices for rego and such if they stop making it so hard and taking necessary medications and help to people who have been seriously injured and need help

[Katman]

Y'know Steve, in my more cynical moments I've been known to muse about whether or not the complete eradication of ALL motorcycle accidents would make a blind bit of difference to this government's attitudes towards the ACC levy for motorcyclists.



Would be interesting to find out though.

[riffer]

Would be interesting to find out though.

Interesting?

It would be FUCKING AWESOME.

[Fatt Max]

Well me ol mate part of the problem is this, those who tried to represent got vilified for even attempting to do so, by their own kind.
Those who became govt advisors/MSL members got paid and guess what, yep they went quiet, those who did not go quiet were removed.
Many here in KB have had a lot to say, most did nothing,waiting to see who did what.
I'm done.

It was a roller coaster and no mistake. We did give it a go but the steam ran out of it at that time. There are still those who are fighting the fight to some degree and good on them for doing so.

I did expect a bit more from the MSAC, maybe we are still waiting for the 'revised' statistics to come out but they may suffer from the same fairy tales as before.

I believe the notion that no matter what we did, this government would not have budged in the long term. Shame really.

But, a shit load of people did a shit load of work on many different levels to fight this cause so you have to take your hat off to them.

Will the protest movement resurrect itself? Who knows. All I know is that if it does, it will need at its helm a positive and effective 'commander' who can see the big picture, can motivate and, most importantly, communicate with the community. They will need the contacts, the skill and the tenacity to work with all groups and all angles to unite all bikers, no matter what they ride.

Here's hoping, eh

[Eyegasm]

3.5B surplus...

Now I know how they are able to offer me $17K more than the Ministry of Health!!!

[CRF119]

The easy option is just don't pay rego, I wont be its cheaper to get 1 fine per year then pay the reg. If every body stopped paying reg they would quickly get the idea

Ive heard even some officers don't pay reg on their bikes.

[Big Dave]

If everyone stopped paying rego you can gaurantee they won't say "d'oh they outsmarted us".

Won't take long till the numberplate scanning technology is modified to issue the fines automatically too. Our car gets scanned twice a day in Brisbane.

[flyingcrocodile46]

All I know is that if it does, it will need at its helm a positive and effective 'commander' who can see the big picture, can motivate and, most importantly, communicate with the community. They will need the contacts, the skill and the tenacity to work with all groups and all angles to unite all bikers, no matter what they ride.

LMFAO :lol::killingme:rofl:

Fat fucking chance.:rolleyes:

Perhaps next time it would help if those who would be united helped in the unity bit, rather than grabbing a corner and pulling in a different direction (like last time?). Damn hard to unite an army when new and different Generals are popping up all over the place.

I dunno if anyone else felt the same way but my enthusiasm evaporated when I saw all the 'unity destroying' grandstanding by self elected champions of the cause, I was disgusted and immediately decided it was a dead duck. IMO the shoulder climbing wannabe's are the ones who killed what was initially (under Bronze & Ulysses) a massive level of support.

So now you know, you can stop laying the blame at the feet of the 'apathetic foot soldiers who fled the cause'. It was clearly a case of too many wannabe heroes destroying the campaign support (by whinging and pulling in differing direction) just so they had shoulders on which to climb to ever more grandiose and inspirational heights.

Dumb fucks destroyed the support and played straight into the governments hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Fuck you very much.

Not intended directly as a dig at you Fat Max, you just provided a springboard.

[Fatt Max]

LMFAO :lol::killingme:rofl:

Fat fucking chance.:rolleyes:

Perhaps next time it would help if those who would be united helped in the unity bit, rather than grabbing a corner and pulling in a different direction (like last time?). Damn hard to unite an army when new and different Generals are popping up all over the place.

I dunno if anyone else felt the same way but my enthusiasm evaporated when I saw all the 'unity destroying' grandstanding by self elected champions of the cause, I was disgusted and immediately decided it was a dead duck. IMO the shoulder climbing wannabe's are the ones who killed what was initially (under Bronze & Ulysses) a massive level of support.

So now you know, you can stop laying the blame at the feet of the 'apathetic foot soldiers who fled the cause'. It was clearly a case of too many wannabe heroes destroying the campaign support (by whinging and pulling in differing direction) just so they had shoulders on which to climb to ever more grandiose and inspirational heights.

Dumb fucks destroyed the support and played straight into the governments hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Fuck you very much.

Not intended directly as a dig at you Fat Max, you just provided a springboard.

No offence taken bruv,

But where the fuck were you when the protest movement needed action and not words

Not intended directly as a dig at you, you just provided a springboard....

[Big Dave]

No offence taken bruv,

But where the fuck were you when the protest movement needed action and not words



He was putting in at the meetings that kicked off the 'Bikeoi'.

[caseye]

The Croc and I rode in company with another brother to the Bikhoi.
So no points scored there FM, however far away from the actuality of what did happen anyone is, they are entitled to their opinion.

[NONONO]

LMFAO :lol::killingme:rofl:

Fat fucking chance.:rolleyes:

Perhaps next time it would help if those who would be united helped in the unity bit, rather than grabbing a corner and pulling in a different direction (like last time?). Damn hard to unite an army when new and different Generals are popping up all over the place.

I dunno if anyone else felt the same way but my enthusiasm evaporated when I saw all the 'unity destroying' grandstanding by self elected champions of the cause, I was disgusted and immediately decided it was a dead duck. IMO the shoulder climbing wannabe's are the ones who killed what was initially (under Bronze & Ulysses) a massive level of support.

So now you know, you can stop laying the blame at the feet of the 'apathetic foot soldiers who fled the cause'. It was clearly a case of too many wannabe heroes destroying the campaign support (by whinging and pulling in differing direction) just so they had shoulders on which to climb to ever more grandiose and inspirational heights.

Dumb fucks destroyed the support and played straight into the governments hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Fuck you very much.

Not intended directly as a dig at you Fat Max, you just provided a springboard.

Lets have the facts here shall we Mr Fuck You Very Much.
The Bikoi was Nov 1999, MAG NZ launched Oct 2010.
Where was all this "Massive Support" for Bronz and Ulysseys during the intervening year? What was being done and who was doing it?
A group of people, sick of the do nothing attitude decided to have a go. MAG NZ heard all the arguments about splitting the vote, it was a crap argument.
There was no consensus, and no one was doing anything.
Maybe MAG NZ should have taken Big Dave's advice and rolled the BRONZ committee, but it decided not to.
By the way, the Bronz election of committee members meeting held a few weeks before MAG launched had to be cancelled as they could not get a quorum, massive support?
As for Ulysseys, MAG was getting support from some branches, some not, but it was not an issue. I'm not sure they where up to doing much after Bikoi, if they did we did not see it. Massive support?
You guys who opposed the formation of MAG NZ made a good job of nay saying at the time, good on yer, you did well.
If and when MAG NZ has another go they will have learned some hard lessons and will be better equipped, or not.
But here is what MAG NZ argued.
Opposition to the ACC hikes.
Oppositon to the MSL and the formation of the MSLC.
Well done for having a go, see you next time.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Lets have the facts here shall we Mr Fuck You Very Much.
The Bikoi was Nov 1999, MAG NZ launched Oct 2010.
Where was all this "Massive Support" for Bronz and Ulysseys during the intervening year? What was being done and who was doing it?
A group of people, sick of the do nothing attitude decided to have a go. MAG NZ heard all the arguments about splitting the vote, it was a crap argument.
There was no consensus, and no one was doing anything.

Surely you aren't suggesting that the activities of the glory hogs didn't start until mag was formed. Those who formed mag and others had been pulling at the supporters long before mag was formed. They trampled over and largely ignored BRONZ as the natural voice of bikers, choosing instead the melodious sound of their own whiney tones.



Maybe MAG NZ should have taken Big Dave's advice and rolled the BRONZ committee, but it decided not to.

of course, it wasn't as glorious as forming a new club. Far too sensible.



By the way, the Bronz election of committee members meeting held a few weeks before MAG launched had to be cancelled as they could not get a quorum, massive support?

So Bronze had no support for the wellington protest either eh. Most likely the subsequent loss of interest was a result of the non stop whinging by the wannabes which had already killed the movement and demonstrated that true unity was a pipe dream while they were around to destroy it.

Of course those high on their own visions didn't stop to see what was what as they were far too busy to see anything past their visions of what needed to be done. What's even more amazing is that despite an obvious lack of meaningful support they are still trying to live the dream over two years after the movement died. That is how sad these wannabes are.



As for Ulysseys, MAG was getting support from some branches, some not, but it was not an issue. I'm not sure they where up to doing much after Bikoi, if they did we did not see it. Massive support?

See above



You guys who opposed the formation of MAG NZ made a good job of nay saying at the time, good on yer, you did well.
If and when MAG NZ has another go they will have learned some hard lessons and will be better equipped, or not.
But here is what MAG NZ argued.
Opposition to the ACC hikes.
Oppositon to the MSL and the formation of the MSLC.
Well done for having a go, see you next time.

Not interested. Fuck off and stroke your cock yourself.

[NONONO]

Carry on missing the point, as usual.
Do nothing, as usual.
BTW, only two types of men, wankers and liars, which are you?

[bogan]

Those who formed mag and others had been pulling at the supporters long before mag was formed.


What's even more amazing is that despite an obvious lack of meaningful support they are still trying to live the dream over two years after the movement died.

So we pulled all the support away, but kept none of it for ourselves? We must be really shit at this :lol:

Lets face it, there was about 8000 attendees to the bikoi, and many more supporters. Since then all the groups combined efforts probably account for less than 10% of the number, bikers simply aren't in it for the long haul, they gave it a hoon, then shuffled off quietly.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Carry on missing the point, as usual.
Do nothing, as usual.
BTW, only two types of men, wankers and liars, which are you?


No doubt the sort of rhetoric that has won you so much support to date.:facepalm:

There are actually a lot more than two types of men. It is sad that you see your potential role in life limited in such a way and it speaks volumes as to your own motivation in these matters.

My previous closing remark was obviously spot on.

[flyingcrocodile46]

So we pulled all the support away, but kept none of it for ourselves? We must be really shit at this :lol:

In a nut shell

[yungatart]

I don't see how slagging other folk off will actually do us any good...but it has a lot to do with our lack of success...

[Fatt Max]

The Croc and I rode in company with another brother to the Bikhoi.
So no points scored there FM, however far away from the actuality of what did happen anyone is, they are entitled to their opinion.

Well thats all good and good onya,

I fully appreciate the need for an opinion, in fact I have copped so much shit on this site (and privatley) for promoting that but thats like.

Crocs post pissed me off, not because he posted it as an individual (I dont know you dude as much as you know me so fairs fair) but it did echo a lot of the comments and shit that I and other took at the time.

To quote:

Perhaps next time it would help if those who would be united helped in the unity bit, rather than grabbing a corner and pulling in a different direction (like last time?). Damn hard to unite an army when new and different Generals are popping up all over the place

I actually got called a 'interfering cunt' for trying to unite the various biker groups to decide on a single message. I felt and still feel that the only way we could have made a huge impact was to get a common message across and get it out there. That included everyone that was affected. Unfortunatley I was very much shut down on that front.

I dunno if anyone else felt the same way but my enthusiasm evaporated when I saw all the 'unity destroying' grandstanding by self elected champions of the cause, I was disgusted and immediately decided it was a dead duck. IMO the shoulder climbing wannabe's are the ones who killed what was initially (under Bronze & Ulysses) a massive level of support

The problem here was that the BIKEOI had how many thousands in attendance but BRONZ Auckland for example could only muster something like 300 members. The chance to get the numbers together was lost when the BIKEOI was not followed up. That was a frustration felt bt a lot of people and as a result the AAG was formed and later MAG.

As for Ulysees, correct me if I am wrong but didnt the President accept the levy reduction 'on behalf of all bikers'. I dont think he had any right to do that and, as I saw first hand, they lost a lot of their support. Granted it may have been a badly judged statement but FFS.....

So now you know, you can stop laying the blame at the feet of the 'apathetic foot soldiers who fled the cause'. It was clearly a case of too many wannabe heroes destroying the campaign support (by whinging and pulling in differing direction) just so they had shoulders on which to climb to ever more grandiose and inspirational heights

I agree with you here after a few reads of this. You are dead right mate. Many of these 'wannabee heroes' were thise keyboard warriors who slagged and slated the efforts of those who tried to get out there and make a difference. The real problem I beleive was a lack of effectiove leadership across the entire community. We need someone who can unite and inspire (Mel Gibson did a good job in Braveheart, he is not busy at the mo, he might be able to help us......)

Here again I was fucking abused verbally and through wanky PM's by so called frineds when I kept making the point about the need for a single and concise message. What's the point of 500 bikers gridlocking the major cities if we collectivley have nothing to say.

Dumb fucks destroyed the support and played straight into the governments hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Yes and I beleive we all have to shoulder some of the blame for this. I certainly do. There is so much now I wish I had done at the time but had neither the time, conviction and support. The words 'If Only' echo through my mind every time I think about that.

Fuck you very much

You did say your post was not a dig at me mate and thats cool. I will take this as an offer next time you are in town......xxxx

Apologies Croc for the rather coarse and uneducated content of my post in response to the points you raised. Maybe its best I keep out of the protest threads because its never got me anywhere in the past and I am also aware that I am, and I quote:

"A dumb fat pommie cunt who should shut his fucking mouth and fuck off back to England"

See you at the bakery I suppose....

[bogan]

In a nut shell

Lets just hope everyone isn't too busy blaming others to think about what they could have done better (be they part of a group, or potential supporters). Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it requires actually looking back!

[Fatt Max]

Lets just hope everyone isn't too busy blaming others to think about what they could have done better (be they part of a group, or potential supporters). Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it requires actually looking back!

Yeah mate, its worth doing it to know.

Whats the chances of the protest movement pushing ahead? I suppose the MSAC or MOTO or whatever they are called have had a chance to justify their existance, but is it justified yet?

Funny enough I was talking to a member of a very high profile MC last night and he made the point that NZ'rs dont know how to protest. He said that the biker movement got so hung up on upsetting and disrupting people that it was no surpirse it ended up a toothless tiger. He went to the BIKEOI and saw nothing but support for the bikers from the public because of the Who's Next message, something that was never followed up. I beleive we had the chance to be the catalyst for a much larger protest movement. ACC would have been the issue to tie us all together and then, as a community, we would have had the numbers to force the other campaigns that are exclusivley biker related.

Hence I beleive strong, connected, savvy and motivated leadership capable of uniting the groups was the missing component.

If that leadership rises then I will be there with bells on. I still feel very strongly about the whole thing and moreso the further damage governments are going to people in general.

Who's Next...??....that could have been a massive campaign....is it too late?

Hard to say. Tell you what though, we could all go and occupy Aotea Square like the lentil suckers and see what happens......oh hang on, its raining, poor little rich kids might get wet

[flyingcrocodile46]

Well thats all good and good onya,

I fully appreciate the need for an opinion, in fact I have copped so much shit on this site (and privatley) for promoting that but thats like.

Crocs post pissed me off, not because he posted it as an individual (I dont know you dude as much as you know me so fairs fair) but it did echo a lot of the comments and shit that I and other took at the time.

To quote:

Perhaps next time it would help if those who would be united helped in the unity bit, rather than grabbing a corner and pulling in a different direction (like last time?). Damn hard to unite an army when new and different Generals are popping up all over the place

I actually got called a 'interfering cunt' for trying to unite the various biker groups to decide on a single message. I felt and still feel that the only way we could have made a huge impact was to get a common message across and get it out there. That included everyone that was affected. Unfortunatley I was very much shut down on that front.

I dunno if anyone else felt the same way but my enthusiasm evaporated when I saw all the 'unity destroying' grandstanding by self elected champions of the cause, I was disgusted and immediately decided it was a dead duck. IMO the shoulder climbing wannabe's are the ones who killed what was initially (under Bronze & Ulysses) a massive level of support

The problem here was that the BIKEOI had how many thousands in attendance but BRONZ Auckland for example could only muster something like 300 members. The chance to get the numbers together was lost when the BIKEOI was not followed up. That was a frustration felt bt a lot of people and as a result the AAG was formed and later MAG.

As for Ulysees, correct me if I am wrong but didnt the President accept the levy reduction 'on behalf of all bikers'. I dont think he had any right to do that and, as I saw first hand, they lost a lot of their support. Granted it may have been a badly judged statement but FFS.....

So now you know, you can stop laying the blame at the feet of the 'apathetic foot soldiers who fled the cause'. It was clearly a case of too many wannabe heroes destroying the campaign support (by whinging and pulling in differing direction) just so they had shoulders on which to climb to ever more grandiose and inspirational heights

I agree with you here after a few reads of this. You are dead right mate. Many of these 'wannabee heroes' were thise keyboard warriors who slagged and slated the efforts of those who tried to get out there and make a difference. The real problem I beleive was a lack of effectiove leadership across the entire community. We need someone who can unite and inspire (Mel Gibson did a good job in Braveheart, he is not busy at the mo, he might be able to help us......)

Here again I was fucking abused verbally and through wanky PM's by so called frineds when I kept making the point about the need for a single and concise message. What's the point of 500 bikers gridlocking the major cities if we collectivley have nothing to say.

Dumb fucks destroyed the support and played straight into the governments hands. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Yes and I beleive we all have to shoulder some of the blame for this. I certainly do. There is so much now I wish I had done at the time but had neither the time, conviction and support. The words 'If Only' echo through my mind every time I think about that.

Fuck you very much

You did say your post was not a dig at me mate and thats cool. I will take this as an offer next time you are in town......xxxx

Apologies Croc for the rather coarse and uneducated content of my post in response to the points you raised. Maybe its best I keep out of the protest threads because its never got me anywhere in the past and I am also aware that I am, and I quote:

"A dumb fat pommie cunt who should shut his fucking mouth and fuck off back to England"

See you at the bakery I suppose....

Lol I like you

I know that a lot of the events that occurred as they did weren't the desired results and I accept that shit happens despite best intentions. History is history and we all are supposed to learn from it. It just erks me that some haven't learned. I am aware of some of your input along te way and never saw it as anything other than positive in intent and (as far as I know) outcome.

I really didn't mean to single you out in any way and certainly didn't intend to infer that your individual actions were amongst those at which my rant was directed. Indeed, if you did try to achieve unity rather than fragmentation then you were one of the good guys, in my eyes. While I accept that I just gave up on the cause.

[Fatt Max]

Lol I like you

I know that a lot of the events that occurred as they did weren't the desired results and I accept that shit happens despite best intentions. History is history and we all are supposed to learn from it. It just erks me that some haven't learned. I am aware of some of your input along te way and never saw it as anything other than positive in intent and (as far as I know) outcome.

I really didn't mean to single you out in any way and certainly didn't intend to infer that your individual actions were amongst those at which my rant was directed. Indeed, if you did try to achieve unity rather than fragmentation then you were one of the good guys, in my eyes. While I accept that I just gave up on the cause.

All good mate

I am sensing that there are rumblings starting up again. The cost of living is going up and everything is hitting everyone in the pocket. A lot of bikers I have spoken to lately are looking at their regos and wondering why the fuck they are paying so much and why the fuck something more was done.

Interesting development...

Now we see the surplus in ACC so there is the big question as to when we see our reduction.

How are the crash stats doing? What are they now as compared to, say, 2 or 3 years ago? Did this government promise to reduce levies if the stats come down?

People are asking these questions I believe. Is there someone out there who can take it on now...??

[flyingcrocodile46]

All good mate

I am sensing that there are rumblings starting up again. The cost of living is going up and everything is hitting everyone in the pocket. A lot of bikers I have spoken to lately are looking at their regos and wondering why the fuck they are paying so much and why the fuck something more was done.

Interesting development...

Now we see the surplus in ACC so there is the big question as to when we see our reduction.

How are the crash stats doing? What are they now as compared to, say, 2 or 3 years ago? Did this government promise to reduce levies if the stats come down?

People are asking these questions I believe. Is there someone out there who can take it on now...??

From memory they had about the same amount in reserve at the start, they were never broke, they just weren't making the targeted operating cost/profit and surplus that had been set back under the previous national govt leadership (the 3.5 billion isn't their annual operating cost surplus).

If we are ever to see a rebate it would be a hard won one, and personally I question whether the amount of effort required would be justified by the 'likely watered down result'. Best chance is to get a revision of fees for multi rego holders IMO.

I don't believe that an undertaking for a stat based reduction was given or implied.

As for your last question, While there is always a possibility that a suitably charismatic individual could pull it off, I know it ain't me (unqualified) and think they would almost certainly need to arrive by working through an existing well structured, recognised (qualified) and respected organisation. Rather than starting from scratch and attempting to earn the required credibility with faceless thousands by way of bike forum preaching and repeating accusations of apathy toward the would be supporters. A different approach is needed. IMO

[flyingcrocodile46]

Yeah mate, its worth doing it to know.

Whats the chances of the protest movement pushing ahead? I suppose the MSAC or MOTO or whatever they are called have had a chance to justify their existance, but is it justified yet?

Funny enough I was talking to a member of a very high profile MC last night and he made the point that NZ'rs dont know how to protest. He said that the biker movement got so hung up on upsetting and disrupting people that it was no surpirse it ended up a toothless tiger. He went to the BIKEOI and saw nothing but support for the bikers from the public because of the Who's Next message, something that was never followed up. I beleive we had the chance to be the catalyst for a much larger protest movement. ACC would have been the issue to tie us all together and then, as a community, we would have had the numbers to force the other campaigns that are exclusivley biker related.

Hence I beleive strong, connected, savvy and motivated leadership capable of uniting the groups was the missing component.

If that leadership rises then I will be there with bells on. I still feel very strongly about the whole thing and moreso the further damage governments are going to people in general.

Who's Next...??....that could have been a massive campaign....is it too late?

Hard to say. Tell you what though, we could all go and occupy Aotea Square like the lentil suckers and see what happens......oh hang on, its raining, poor little rich kids might get wet


Top post.

In hindsight it was probably an excellent opportunity to have organised a low key non-disruptive and possibly very effective country wide petition. If the community support had been capitalised on. Who knows, we may have managed 2 or 5 hundred thousand signatures by having well mannered bikers politely attending big shopping centers and public events. (if we ever could have agreed on a few simple petition objectives). It really was a great opportunity.

[bogan]

Top post.

In hindsight it was probably an excellent opportunity to have organised a low key non-disruptive and possibly very effective country wide petition. If the community support had been capitalised on. Who knows, we may have managed 2 or 5 hundred thousand signatures by having well mannered bikers politely attending big shopping centers and public events. (if we ever could have agreed on a few simple petition objectives). It really was a great opportunity.

Not sure how many signatures we got, but we did do the well mannered (for the most bit :innocent:) shopping center petition gathering. I'm pretty sure it was mid dec right after the bikoi.

[Fatt Max]

Not sure how many signatures we got, but we did do the well mannered (for the most bit :innocent:) shopping center petition gathering. I'm pretty sure it was mid dec right after the bikoi.

Yeah mate, you and so many others got out there. Unfortunatley certain figureheads either didnt or wouldnt bother to stand up and be counted, or felt the best way to run a movement was through silence and a measure of exclusivity.......thats govenment tactics isnt it....?

I for one was really wrapped by your personal contribution Bogan, I know the work and effort that it took

[Flip]

I would be interesting to know what the reduction in funds collected for the ACC motorcycle group is and compare this against any reduction in the number and cost of bike related ACC claims for the same time. It might prove to be damming evidence that putting the ACC up actually cost the govt money.

I only have one modern registered bike, all the others are farm or vintage. I went on all the local Chch protest runs, went to Wellington (and helped out on the day) for the big protest and signed all the petitions, was even prepared to help with some of the civil disobedience protests that folk were talking about.

As a long term Ulysses and Hog member I do not believe they had the mandate to lobby on the ACC issue for all bikers. I did join BRONZ, who did have the mandate to act as a lobby group, but after being abused by the the prezy I told them to stick their membership where the sun don't shine.

Where did we go wrong? There was no published long term strategic plan, no buy in by the great unwashed and no review. BRONZ got very close but they were too well intentioned, did too much listening and not enough doing.

Let me ask you one thing. After being lied to by the government about the state of the ACC accounts and being used as a cash cow to bulk up the account, how many of you are still going to vote National at the election? Its ironic that many of us feel strongly enough about The ACC fiasco to back stab our fellow bikers for sport but not strongly enough to vote the buggers who caused the problem out of government.:facepalm:

We mostly deserve what we got.

[Fatt Max]

I would be interesting to know what the reduction in funds collected for the ACC motorcycle group is and compare this against any reduction in the number and cost of bike related ACC claims for the same time. It might prove to be damming evidence that putting the ACC up actually cost the govt money.

I only have one modern registered bike, all the others are farm or vintage. I went on all the local Chch protest runs, went to Wellington (and helped out on the day) for the big protest and signed all the petitions, was even prepared to help with some of the civil disobedience protests that folk were talking about.

As a long term Ulysses and Hog member I do not believe they had the mandate to lobby on the ACC issue for all bikers. I did join BRONZ, who did have the mandate to act as a lobby group, but after being abused by the the prezy I told them to stick their membership where the sun don't shine.

Where did we go wrong? There was no published long term strategic plan, no buy in by the great unwashed and no review. BRONZ got very close but they were too well intentioned, did too much listening and not enough doing.

Let me ask you one thing. After being lied to by the government about the state of the ACC accounts and being used as a cash cow to bulk up the account, how many of you are still going to vote National at the election? Its ironic that many of us feel strongly enough about The ACC fiasco to back stab our fellow bikers for sport but not strongly enough to vote the buggers out of government.:facepalm:

We deserve what we got.

Where did we go wrong? I believe it was a combination of a lack of effective leadership and a non existant simple but strong message.

Agreed that you cant jump up and down about the ACC debarcle and then re elect the government that caused it.

'Riders are voters' personifies this, such a shame that side of the MAG campaign fell away. I would happily bang that drum again if only we could rally the numbers. That can be done by effective leadership and a simple but strong message.......erm.....yeah.....

[Flip]

How many committed bikers would it take to block say 10 critical intersections in any major city and bring the city to a stand still, then fuck off. It was not about numbers, it was about making a stand and being seen doing so.

Kiwis are just not good at protesting, its not in our nature.

[Fatt Max]

How many committed bikers would it take to block say 10 critical intersections in any major city and bring the city to a stand still, then fuck off. It was not about numbers, it was about making a stand and being seen doing so.

Kiwis are just not good at protesting, its not in our nature.

Yes indeed because we live in the best country in the world. We are surrounded by amazing scenery, we have a safe country, great people and a laid back way of life so yes, protesting is alien to us.

However, ripping people off, breaking promises and shafting the working person is something our governments have learned from overseas and are loving the fact that they are largely unchallenged.

There is something intrinsically wrong there......

T

[Maha]

How many committed bikers would it take to block say 10 critical intersections in any major city and bring the city to a stand still, then fuck off. It was not about numbers, it was about making a stand and being seen doing so.

Kiwis are just not good at protesting, its not in our nature.

...and what would that prove to the awaiting public while that sit in the cars on the daily commute?...
And ultimately, what would that achieve?

[Big Dave]

Yes - I gave up - I'll tell you why - the $220 extra tax was not worth the angst, being called a liar and dealing with idiot criticism that came with trying to do the right and democratic thing.

As an ex-NZ resident and observer - my last bit of advice is the same as the first. You need ONE representative group. Decide which one it is and back it.

Good luck.

Meanwhile I'll be over here paying twice as much for less.

[Fatt Max]

You need ONE representative group. Decide which one it is and back it..

100% agree with that BD

[Flip]

...and what would that prove to the awaiting public while that sit in the cars on the daily commute?...
And ultimately, what would that achieve?

Nothing to the waiting public, its not for their benefit, its for ours. It's a political statement in the form of a threat. It would be on the front page of every paper, it would cost millions in lost time and money. It says if you fuck with us we will fuck with you.

This is why we failed, no commitment.

[Maha]

Nothing to the waiting public, its not for their benefit, its for ours. It's a political statement in the form of a threat. It would be on the front page of every paper, it would cost millions in lost time and money. It says if you fuck with us we will fuck with you.

This is why we failed, no commitment.

Mate..you're live in dreamland...
Take it from who knows. I moved to another part of town months ago.
What you are suggesting was halted in its tracks by majority from a so called ''action'' group only this year.

[bogan]

Mate..you're live in dreamland...
Take it from who knows. I moved to another part of town months ago.
What you are suggesting was halted in its tracks by majority from a so called ''action'' group only this year.

I guess you mean the three strikes run? We had insufficient co-ordinators and not enough confirmed attendees so we called it off. But I'll just leave it at the facts lest I get a bit preachy :shutup:

[Maha]

I guess you mean the three strikes run? We had insufficient co-ordinators and not enough confirmed attendees so we called it off. But I'll just leave it at the facts lest I get a bit preachy :shutup:

No...I was not meaning that run..
The Riders are Voters run to Wellington in April that was thwarted.

In the past two years, all that can be said about the 09 Bikio is...that it happened.
The outcome was zip and the organisers failed to see to potential of what they had created, could have turned into something massive, but it was let go.
Isn't that why MAG was formed?...yes it was.

[bogan]

No...I was not meaning that run..
The Riders are Voters run to Wellington in April that was thwarted.

In the past two years, all that can be said about the 09 Bikio is...that it happened.
The outcome was zip and the organisers failed to see to potential of what they had created, could have turned into something massive, but it was let go.
Isn't that why MAG was formed?...yes it was.

Yeh that one could have been good. I think its abandonment highlighted the need for a plan plan, ie, a good way to sort out the plan without those involved going round in circles during the planning stages. So there's a free tip for anyone with a plan, make sure you have a plan plan too.

[Maha]

Yeh that one could have been good. I think its abandonment highlighted the need for a plan plan, ie, a good way to sort out the plan without those involved going round in circles during the planning stages. So there's a free tip for anyone with a plan, make sure you have a plan plan too.

Our pending trip to the Cape is plan plan plan...it is so easy to put something together and just do it..difference being..I dont need to run it by 23 others first...:facepalm:

[Fatt Max]

Our pending trip to the Cape is plan plan plan...it is so easy to put something together and just do it..difference being..I dont need to run it by 23 others first...:facepalm:

Yep mate, that is exactly right.

[Fatt Max]

In the past two years, all that can be said about the 09 Bikio is...that it happened.
The outcome was zip and the organisers failed to see to potential of what they had created, could have turned into something massive, but it was let go.
Isn't that why MAG was formed?...yes it was.

And that is my point exactly about the whole protest movement fromn day one. The chance was then. MAG should have never existed because there should have been no reason for it to exist. That movement should have grown and grown and the BIKEOI should have been the catalyst for everyone to unite and fight the fight.

Lots of 'shoulds' in there eh. If only.....

Needless to say if the movement rose up again I would be there supporting and encouraging it.

Good onya to EVERYONE that carried on either in MAG, BRONZ or elsewhere and I mean that.

I have had another knock for telling it as I see it (not going into details but being misinterpreted can be such a bummer) so I'll let this thread carry on and I will go and do what I love doing most........and then after than I will go for a ride.

Hopefully someone will start a thread about a really good fajita recipie, cant do a thing with mine........

[Katman]

In hindsight it was probably an excellent opportunity to have organised a low key non-disruptive and possibly very effective country wide petition. If the community support had been capitalised on. Who knows, we may have managed 2 or 5 hundred thousand signatures by having well mannered bikers politely attending big shopping centers and public events. (if we ever could have agreed on a few simple petition objectives). It really was a great opportunity.

The only way we are ever likely to see wide spread public support for any grievances we voice is by addressing the problem of motorcyclists being noticed for all the wrong reasons.

[flyingcrocodile46]

The only way we are ever likely to see wide spread public support for any grievances we voice is by addressing the problem of motorcyclists being noticed for all the wrong reasons.

Shoot katman??

[Murray]

Shoot katman??

Careful - If you say that enough times someone might listen!!!!!!<_<<_<

[Voltaire]

I gave up on ACC when I went to the Doctor with a work related back injury about 3 years ago they said it was degenerative. Struggled on for another year with Physio ( that was a waste of time) then shut up shop and got a desk job. Daily life and bike riding became a pain...literally.
For the last year I have been going to a chiropractor ( I thought they were quacks) but this guy explains it with photos, xrays and does comparitive readings as well as adjustments.
Back is not 100% but I ride a bike with clipons and even the odd thrash around the track on the bucket.
I bet that is where ACC got their savings...saying its degenerative....when its not.
As for the price to rego a bike, It's not an election issue as far as I'm concerned.

[Swoop]

The Bikoi was Nov 1999, MAG NZ launched Oct 2010.

You would think that eleven years would have been enough to get organised.:shifty:

Is there someone out there who can take it on now...??
The politics of biking is quite disgusting and resemble a disorganised bunch of kindergarten children at times.
After the bikoi the "momentum" was lost and real politicians went on with their agenda.

Individuals are still able to protest by placing their bike registration on hold.
If some other bikers do not like this action, then fuck 'em!

[sinfull]

I hope some have a good email written for John campbell tonight

[Harry the Barstard]

This all happened while I was away for a year on my OE, so I dont really know who did what or didnt. But what I do know is ......

1. It is a little sad to see so much passion and so many numbers but no focus, co ordintaion or action.
2. It is up to everyone who rides on two wheels and doesn't like the current system to stand up and do something about it
3. Whining like a lil girl on the interweb doesn't win wars
4. No matter how much you lick the baked bean sauce on your hoody, it is there to stay untill it go's through the washing machine. No matter how quick you lick after the bean has made contact with said hoody.

[Voltaire]

Thank you Harry for taking up the batten , we have been waiting for a decisive leader since Stony left...:2thumbsup.
So whats the plan?:not:

[Brian d marge]

wonder why the government is being nice all of a sudden, and not just about ACC....either , they are pushing through some unsavoury bills or an election is being planned ...

they dont give away money unless there are strings attached ...

Stephen

[5150]

Article on Stuff.co.nz this moring.

About half way down there is a scribble about possible motor vehicle levy reductions. Somehow I am not holding my breath tho.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7125792/Premiums-may-drop-in-ACC-rethink