Avon - The love affair is over!

[KoroJ]

I’ve done my dash with Avon tyres, after wanting to use nothing but Storms on the ST, but ever since using the Storm 2 Ultras, I’ve had 3 rears and all failed miserably.

The 1st at 5,000Km... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1942-Bugger-It! (30/1/11)

The 2nd at 8000Km... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/2067-Bad-Luck%E2%80%A6.By-the-Truckload! (2/5/11)

And the last in dramatic fashion at 7000Km... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/2304-Thanks-Mr-Avon!...and-I-bid-thee-farewell-Adieu-%E2%80%A6and-I-wave-with-a-Big-Finger!! (10/10/11) With the results pictured below.

Needless to say, I was pretty slutted and couldn’t understand why this only seemed to be happening to me, but fortunately a troll through the ST-Owners forum revealed this seems to be a problem with ST’s... http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?105929-AVON-The-love-affair-is-over

The worst part about this seems to be that Mr Avon won’t accept or recognise there is a problem and after the 2nd one went, I wrote the attached pdf report and gave it to my repairers to pass on, but got no response. Well, as per the ST Forum, for me the love affair is over. It’s always been a problem getting Stock of the Storm tyres, with big gaps in availability...and now this! You can piss off Mr Avon!!

[Kickaha]

From the photos it looks like an impact fracture, have any others had the same type of failure or is it mainly punctures?

Is that rust on the steel belts? that could be another reason for the failure but there would have to be a cut or hole to allow water in

[Hopeful Bastard]

As they say in restaurant business.... 1 good review, 10 people know. 1 bad review, 100 people know..

Thanks for your links!

[AllanB]

Don't want to sound rude, but if you had 2 tyres fail of the same brand why put a third on? :shutup:

[Hopeful Bastard]

Don't want to sound rude, but if you had 2 tyres fail of the same brand why put a third on? :shutup:

Like paper scissors rock..



Best outta 3??

:innocent::innocent:

[KoroJ]

From the photos it looks like an impact fracture, have any others had the same type of failure or is it mainly punctures?

Is that rust on the steel belts? that could be another reason for the failure but there would have to be a cut or hole to allow water in

Yes it is rust, which was noted within 24hrs of the blow. Who know how or why, but it had to be there before the tyre blew. I don't believe the tyre was damaged before I started the 1300Km day or I wouldn't got that far before it did blow. I hit the train crossing at Mangaweka at about 100kph and that was about 20Km earlier??



Don't want to sound rude, but if you had 2 tyres fail of the same brand why put a third on? :shutup:

Because I'd tried other tyres, been disatisfied with them and I'd had 5 Avon rears that were great, before the bad 3. Benefit of the doubt....dumb bastard....both I suppose! One doesn't expect and finds it hard to believe that an upgrade is a backward step. I still can't believe how a manufacturer can get it so wrong.

[tigertim20]

As they say in restaurant business.... 1 good review, 10 people know. 1 bad review, 100 people know..

Thanks for your links!

yep, never a truer word spoken!

[Owl]

You can piss off Mr Avon!!

Fair enough too!

I quite liked the original Storm ST, but found the 6500km lifespan relatively poor, especially when the PR2 would last me over 9000km.

[paturoa]

A friend from up norf runs Pilot Road 2s on his ST1300 and raves about them. We did a 15,500 km trip in oz earlier this year and it was right on the limit at the end, with no problems.

Edit: raves about the rears only, he has issues with the front cupping and wearing out before the rear.

[p.dath]

Wow those are pretty impressive tyre failures. They are definitely not suited for the purpose you need them for (maybe they are good for people just wanting to leave the bike in the garage!).

[ducatisl]

I’ve done my dash with Avon tyres, after wanting to use nothing but Storms on the ST, but ever since using the Storm 2 Ultras, I’ve had 3 rears and all failed miserably.

The 1st at 5,000Km... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1942-Bugger-It! (30/1/11)

The 2nd at 8000Km... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/2067-Bad-Luck%E2%80%A6.By-the-Truckload! (2/5/11)

And the last in dramatic fashion at 7000Km... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/2304-Thanks-Mr-Avon!...and-I-bid-thee-farewell-Adieu-%E2%80%A6and-I-wave-with-a-Big-Finger!! (10/10/11) With the results pictured below.

Needless to say, I was pretty slutted and couldn’t understand why this only seemed to be happening to me, but fortunately a troll through the ST-Owners forum revealed this seems to be a problem with ST’s... http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?105929-AVON-The-love-affair-is-over

The worst part about this seems to be that Mr Avon won’t accept or recognise there is a problem and after the 2nd one went, I wrote the attached pdf report and gave it to my repairers to pass on, but got no response. Well, as per the ST Forum, for me the love affair is over. It’s always been a problem getting Stock of the Storm tyres, with big gaps in availability...and now this! You can piss off Mr Avon!!

firstly, who is mr Avon that you are refering too ? secondly , why do you think its a problem with the tyre? thirdly, I know of hundreds of happy punters that only have great comments to make about storm 2 ultras so it sounds to me like you need to stay away from sharp objects that would damage any brand of tyre!!

[KoroJ]

firstly, who is mr Avon that you are refering too ? secondly , why do you think its a problem with the tyre? thirdly, I know of hundreds of happy punters that only have great comments to make about storm 2 ultras so it sounds to me like you need to stay away from sharp objects that would damage any brand of tyre!!

!!...sigh!! Mr Avon can be whomever you want that has any responsibility at the 'Cooper Tire & Rubber Company' that make Avon Tyres, be it the CEO, Board, Shareholders or any of the decision making management.

I think it's the tyre because I have had three in a row fail, then find other ST riders are experiencing the same problem, whereby it appears the belts are collapsing and/or rupturing. It would seem the tyres are fine with ST1100's and other lighter bikes but they can't hack the loadings placed on them by ST1300's. The other side of this problem, is that Mr Avon doesn't appear to acknowledge or recognise there is a problem....and we can't still get the Storms, that were fine.

I am very sure there have been no sharp, blunt or other objects involved with the failure of my Storm 2 Ultras. It's the tyre that I need to stay away from.

[scracha]

firstly, who is mr Avon that you are refering too ? secondly , why do you think its a problem with the tyre? thirdly, I know of hundreds of happy punters that only have great comments to make about storm 2 ultras so it sounds to me like you need to stay away from sharp objects that would damage any brand of tyre!!

Sigh. Sounds to me like you need a lesson in customer relations and litigation. Blaming an end user for puncturing 3 tyres after such low mileage is just ridiculous. I'd be taking the feedback on board, investigating further and perhaps advising dealers that these tyres possibly have issues with ST13's (or ST13's have issues with these tyres :innocent: ). You should be throwing the guy some heated grips instead of bloody flaming him.

[Kickaha]

Blaming an end user for puncturing 3 tyres after such low mileage is just ridiculous.

Punctures can happen at any stage in a tyres life, mileage is irrelevant

Although one study I read a decade or so ago reckoned something like 90% of punctures happened in the last 10% of the tyres life mainly due to less rubber as the tyre was worn down so stuff was able to penetrate the tyre easier

[cs363]

It would seem the tyres are fine with ST1100's and other lighter bikes but they can't hack the loadings placed on them by ST1300's.

I can't see why there would be any big difference in loadings on the tyre as there are only relatively minor differences in weight/power/torque etc., between an ST1100 & 1300 or is there something I'm missing in that regard?

Seems really weird that a specific brand/size of tyre would be prone to puncturing specifically on one model of bike for no apparent reason. Are you sure there's nothing else going on? :confused:

[ducatisl]

!!...sigh!! Mr Avon can be whomever you want that has any responsibility at the 'Cooper Tire & Rubber Company' that make Avon Tyres, be it the CEO, Board, Shareholders or any of the decision making management.

I think it's the tyre because I have had three in a row fail, then find other ST riders are experiencing the same problem, whereby it appears the belts are collapsing and/or rupturing. It would seem the tyres are fine with ST1100's and other lighter bikes but they can't hack the loadings placed on them by ST1300's. The other side of this problem, is that Mr Avon doesn't appear to acknowledge or recognise there is a problem....and we can't still get the Storms, that were fine.

I am very sure there have been no sharp, blunt or other objects involved with the failure of my Storm 2 Ultras. It's the tyre that I need to stay away from.

And have you taken up your concerns with the dealer that you purchased the tyres from or the NZ distributor of Avon tyres ?

[Hitcher]

And have you taken up your concerns with the dealer that you purchased the tyres from or the NZ distributor of Avon tyres ?

Have you read this thread from the beginning?

[vifferman]

I'd been a long time proponent of Avons up until recentlyish, when I got pissed off with two front Avons in a row wearing a noticeable step - the last one when it was still relatively new. So, I replaced it with a Michelin Pilot Power, to go with the new Michelin Pilot Road 2. Dunno why I didn't do it sooner - they're SO much more betterer for handling, ride, grip and wear characteristics, with not a lot of difference in price.


All those riding years I wasted....:facepalm:

[p.dath]

I'm not a tyre expert, but I have been studying tyres recently, and I keep thinking about this thread.

My guess is that because multiple bikes are being affected it quite likely is an issue to do with the tyres; but playing the devils advocate ...

I think about the fact that you have used these tyres for quite some time and they were great. And then you had three bad sets in a row. So I wonder - has something changed about the tyres - or has something changed about your bike? And you know which seems more likely ...

More specifically, are the tyres now experiencing some kind of force that they weren't previously, and that the manufacturer did not design the tyre to withstand - and that this new force is because of some change in your bike?

For example, a lot of brand new bikes come out with chassis that are not "straight". Bends of up to 5 degrees are not uncommon in new bikes. Is it possible your bike (like most) has a bend that has gradually gotten worse and is causing the tyre to drive with a yaw angle other than zero? Has the bike had a hard impact against a stone or curb maybe?

Is there any chance the back wheel is not completely lined up with the front wheel, causing the tyres to experience a lateral force? Did you have a new sprocket or chain fitted around the time that things started going wrong?

Is the steering head bearing ok? Any chance it is work and causing the front tyre to rotate around (albeit only slightly) and experience a constant turning torque that it might not otherwise do?

Ditto for the rear wheel bearing?

A bit personal; has the weight that the tyres are having to carry changed quite a bit? Or are you now carrying saddle bags or something else that you weren't before that affects the weight on the tyres?

Has the suspension been adjusted on the bike? This could alter the forces on the tyres quite a bit.

[Jantar]

.......I think about the fact that you have used these tyres for quite some time and they were great. And then you had three bad sets in a row. So I wonder - has something changed about the tyres - or has something changed about your bike? And you know which seems more likely ...

......

The OP stated that it is the tyres that have changed. He was happy with the Avon Storms, but not the Avon Storm Ultras. The origional Storms are no longer available.

[riffer]

Here's my call on what's happening John. We all know you have this predilection for long distance rides, and it's well known that the ST1300 puts one hell of a load on its tyres. I think the long distances you're putting on these tyres are causing some pretty intense heat loads, combined with stress on the belts that this model of tyre can't handle.

Perhaps a few less 800km in a day rides might help with tyre life. You did neglect to mention that a 5,000 km tyre life works out to less than a month for you. Or, you could go to the Michelins, or maybe some Contis and see if that helps.

[KoroJ]

.......... So I wonder - has something changed about the tyres - or has something changed about your bike? And you know which seems more likely ....

Avon originally made the Storms, then they 'upgraded' the tyre to the Storm Ultras....and that's when the problems started!

The ST is a heavy bike, weighing in at 300Kg dry, so add to that 29Litres of fuel, up to 30Kg of luggage, and me (at 90-95Kg) and you have a decent sized missile that can be brutal to tyres. Hence I am very pedantic about pressures, checking them at least once a week and definitely before every big ride. Also I try not to use dual compond tyres, (although the 023's currently on it are duals, so I don't expect great life from them)

I don't consider myself to be a 'hard' rider, but I do try to maintain an optimal pace on any given road, riding to the conditions and using minimal braking. I do like to use all the tyre I can and the ST is a bike that likes to lean, so I'm not easy on tyres either.

The bike is serviced meticulously and I would be very surprised if there were any issues there, and it was a relief to find I wasn't the only one experiencing the problems, but it was also intriguing to hear that ST1100's don't appear to be affected when they are only about 20Kg lighter.

Everything seems to point to the problem lying in the Avon Storm Ultra tyre and the fact that that Avon don't seem to recognise there is a problem is poor form on their part.

[KoroJ]

Here's my call on what's happening John. We all know you have this predilection for long distance rides, and it's well known that the ST1300 puts one hell of a load on its tyres. I think the long distances you're putting on these tyres are causing some pretty intense heat loads, combined with stress on the belts that this model of tyre can't handle.

Perhaps a few less 800km in a day rides might help with tyre life. You did neglect to mention that a 5,000 km tyre life works out to less than a month for you. Or, you could go to the Michelins, or maybe some Contis and see if that helps.

Maybe, but there's not much on in the way of decent rides between February and October, so the last tyre only one decent ride and that was it's last.

Tried a Road Attack on the rear once! Didn't find Pilot Road II's great but would use the single compound Pilot Road's again if I had to.

I only ride the bike how it was designed to be ridden! It wouldn't be any fun if I filled, went for a ride and filled the next week now would it. I look forward to a 2 tank (900Km) ride this Friday and the 3-4 tank (1600Km) ride on Saturday for the GC and trust the tyres I have on will cope well.


PS. The heat factor will affect the rubber and duration, but shouldn't cause the belts to collapse.

[cs363]

but it was also intriguing to hear that ST1100's don't appear to be affected when they are only about 20Kg lighter.

This is the bit that stood out to me and that nobody appears to have answered.
Why do these tyres work OK on ST1100's but apparently not on ST1300's? As I stated previously, weight, power & torque aren't largely different between the two bikes so why is it 'well known' (to quote Riffer) that ST1300's are hard on their tyres? I find this a very intriguing side issue.... is it true and if so why? Or is it just internet myth?

[KoroJ]

This is the bit that stood out to me and that nobody appears to have answered.
Why do these tyres work OK on ST1100's but apparently not on ST1300's? As I stated previously, weight, power & torque aren't largely different between the two bikes so why is it 'well known' (to quote Riffer) that ST1300's are hard on their tyres? I find this a very intriguing side issue.... is it true and if so why? Or is it just internet myth?

???...exactly and the only thing I can think of is the 1300 is just over the limit in terms of what the construction of the tyre can cope with. Add to that, the fact that we all ride differently and I have met a lot of ST riders that love and/or have no problems with tyres I haven't liked, not all riders are using, or experiencing the problems with the Ultras.

[Gremlin]

I think Riffer does certainly make some valid comments re distance.

On the KTM, when they pulled apart my suspension after 40k, the verdict was brutal... it was pretty fucked. One fork wouldn't slide properly, and the rear shock oil was a vile sludge instead. The only thing we could think of was that I was riding 300-400km on the trot reasonably often, loaded up, stopping for 15-30min, then repeating. It seemed the suspension was overheating, and then didn't have enough time to recover :blink:

Anyway, food for thought nonetheless.

[Jantar]

I just noticed this at the bottom of the thread.


There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 0 guests)

Jantar, Gremlin, KoroJ,

Three known long distance riders. :yes:

[KoroJ]

I think Riffer does certainly make some valid comments re distance.

On the KTM, when they pulled apart my suspension after 40k, the verdict was brutal... it was pretty fucked. One fork wouldn't slide properly, and the rear shock oil was a vile sludge instead. The only thing we could think of was that I was riding 300-400km on the trot reasonably often, loaded up, stopping for 15-30min, then repeating. It seemed the suspension was overheating, and then didn't have enough time to recover :blink:

Anyway, food for thought nonetheless.

Mmmm!!....Yes, KTM's are designed to ......(how big did you say that extra tank was that got strapped to the back?).....carry and go like you did? The ST is stock standard except for a few grams of wire and power socket (which is an approved option anyway) and one would imagine that with a name like Pan European, they are designed to run at 140-160kph, all day, for days on end?! One would also expect a tyre rated for the bike to do the same.

I never went near those dizzy limits (on the Ultras), but other tyres had managed to do 2100Km on the trot and 8,000Km in a week....on more than one occasion!

[p.dath]

KoroJ, it would be interesting reading to know would be what the tyre temperature gets up to on these long rides of yours, compared to a shorter more typical rides. I know you are careful about tyre pressure, but this would tell us if it was the right tyre pressure for the kind of riding you do. Perhaps you need to "overinflate" the tyre for these long rides to keep the temperature down.

I have no idea what you would use to measure the tyre temperature though ... but you could measure the "hot" tyre pressure and compare it to the cold pressure to get an indication of heating. I would think you would want to keep the change to about 10% for road use. If the change is greater than that then you may need to run a higher cold pressure.

[Blackbird]

KoroJ has documented his experience very well with good photos and accompanying descriptions to set the scene but from my perspective, some contributors have been heading off on the wrong tack, trying to suggest root cause. I humbly submit that there's a step that on the face of it, appears to have been missed. KoroJ is quite rightly miffed with the failure. I am however, puzzled as to why he slags off "Mr Avon" when all he appears to have done at this stage is complain to the company which fitted his tyres. Did that company decline to follow up with the importer or Avon directly? In that case, shouldn't the beef be with the fitters of the tyre in either failing to follow up or making a failure judgement off their own bat?

The reason I'm asking this is that when the original Avon Storms came out, there was a small problem with a small percentage of the front tyres. I skipped round the actual tyre outlet and directly contacted both Dold Industries, the importers in Hamilton and Pete McNally, the Avon Technical Manager in the UK. The response from both parties was both rapid and positive, which is clearly at odds with Koro's experience with the tyre outlet. Would there have been a different result by moving the issue higher and getting a root cause investigation by people who are qualified to do so? Not trying to be awkward or smart-arse, just curious as to whether all avenues had been explored (ahem.... partly because I was an anal mechanical engineer in a previous life :facepalm:).

[Gremlin]

One part of me completely agrees with you Blackbird, giving them a chance. However, another part of me says, I work hard for my clients (in IT), why do I have to do everything myself? If someone else drops the ball, then it's their problem.

The reason for trying to find the fault is that it happened somehow, and knowing how it happened could rule out/in other tyres because of a similar scenario. It's automatic for me, to troubleshoot and find the cause of the problem, hopefully learning something from it.

[Blackbird]

One part of me completely agrees with you Blackbird, giving them a chance. However, another part of me says, I work hard for my clients (in IT), why do I have to do everything myself? If someone else drops the ball, then it's their problem.

The reason for trying to find the fault is that it happened somehow, and knowing how it happened could rule out/in other tyres because of a similar scenario. It's automatic for me, to troubleshoot and find the cause of the problem, hopefully learning something from it.

I don't disagree with you! It's simply that the tyre outlet may or may not be either qualified or inclined to make a correct call. In a perfect world, you wouldn't have to do everything yourself but we've all come across organisations or people within that organisation who don't give a rat's arse. In the case of my specific issue with Avon tyres, I simply didn't think that Boyd Honda who fitted them for me had the necessary expertise or even the inclination to follow it up as vigorously as I would have done myself. That's why I cut them out and did the troubleshooting with the people who were most likely to give me the answers I needed to learn something from it.

With Koro's chosen tyre outlet, had it been a Michelin that failed in that manner, he would have presumably blamed Michelin but it could have been the slackness of the same outfit that was the real issue in failing to follow up with Michelin.

Oh, and incidentally, I'm not defending Avons as I'm not currently using them. All I'm querying is the investigative process and whether there are gaps.

[KoroJ]

The tyres are run at 42psi on the ST and they do go up 5 or 6psi when at running temp, although I always check the pressures cold and that's it. Quite frankly I just assumed they would get to temp and sit there and no doubt they will go up and down a little depending on the various factors on a ride, but I've never thought or been inclined to monitor the pressure whilst on a ride. I have recently been advised that running nitrogen in the tyres maintains the pressures for long periods, minimises heating within the tyre and improves handling. I may try that at some stage??

I haven't followed up on the incident as yet due to work requirements leading up to the days off for the GC this week, but I will get around to it.

[Hitcher]

One shouldn't have to piss around worrying about tyres. Tyre manufacturers and bike companies recommend cold pressures that one may tweak by a couple of psi here or there so that things run as one likes. That's as complex as it should get. Nitrogen and fannying around with hot pressures is beyond the pale. If a tyre brand can't handle that, then find one that will.

I too once had an ST1300. A few years ago tyre choices for these were limited, thanks to Mr Honda choosing an oddball front tyre size. I had issues with my ST eating dual compound rears. The original Storms worked very well for me. So too did the Metzeler Z6, apart from that no-tread-in-the-middle-of-the-rear nonsense that some manufacturers continue with.

Once is an accident; twice is a coincidence; and three times is a trend. Based on KoroJ's experiences, I blame the tyres. No vagueries are going to repeat themselves in three successive tyre changes. Ye cannae change the laws of physics. Or of probability, for that matter.

On another score, Mrs H has just replaced a set of Storm Ultras on her 650 Bandit, suspension mods by Crown Kiwi. 16,000km off them and I reckon that there would have been about another 3,000km of life left in the rear. Her setup is at least 120km less than KoroJ's and maybe not ridden quite as hard. I'm picking that she'll get a similar distance out of her new Ultras -- perhaps when her K6 winds over 110,000km early next year.

[Kickaha]

Once is an accident; twice is a coincidence; and three times is a trend. Based on KoroJ's experiences, I blame the tyres. No vagueries are going to repeat themselves in three successive tyre changes. Ye cannae change the laws of physics. Or of probability, for that matter..


One and Two were punctures which can happen to any tyre anywhere

Three was a tyre failure and the only one I'd be really concerned with

[p.dath]

The tyres are run at 42psi on the ST and they do go up 5 or 6psi when at running temp

I think your initial gut reaction that there is something wrong with the tyres is right. But if your experiencing a 5 or 6 psi increase from cold to hot on normal road riding I'd be inclined to try increasing your cold pressure by another 2 psi to reduce the heating effect. 5 to 6 psi of increase is on the high side for road riding.


I have recently been advised that running nitrogen in the tyres maintains the pressures for long periods, minimises heating within the tyre and improves handling. I may try that at some stage??

I wouldn't waste your money on nitrogen fills for street tyre use.

Nitrogen is typically used where there is a risk of fire and you want to minimise the risk of oxygen from tyres fuelling it (such a fire trucks, airplanes, etc), or where the tyre has to carry a *very* heavy load to minimise heating, such as in aircraft, very heavy trucks, etc.

You sometimes hear salesman promoting nitrogen because the molecules are bigger so tyres wont go as flat as easy. Let me call "bullshit" on this one. Ordinary "air" that you put into your tyre is comprised mostly of nitrogen. A nitrogen fill is not "pure" nitrogen, simple a stronger concentration of it. The small extra percentage of nitrogen in such a fill for a normal street tyre will make no difference to its ability to retain "pressure" or reduce "leakage".


Also let me call "bull shit" on the sales man claim that you hear that nitrogen improves handling. Correct tyre pressure improves handling - not the concentration of nitrogen being put into the tyre.

Also let me call "bull shit" on the sale man claim that nitrogen makes your tyres wear slower or last longer. Correct tyre pressure, again, is what will give yours tyres the longest life then can achieve. Changing the nitrogen percentage will not have any significant effect on street tyres.

I think the only major tyre people left "promoting" nitrogen use for street tyre use in New Zealand is Firestone. Everyone else stopped about 5s after the trend started when they all realised it was smoke and mirrors.

[Kickaha]

I wouldn't waste your money on nitrogen fills for street tyre use.
Have you ever used it yourself or like most naysayers are you speaking from a position of ignorance?

You sometimes hear salesman promoting nitrogen because the molecules are bigger so tyres wont go as flat as easy. Let me call "bullshit" on this one. Ordinary "air" that you put into your tyre is comprised mostly of nitrogen. A nitrogen fill is not "pure" nitrogen, simple a stronger concentration of it. The small extra percentage of nitrogen in such a fill for a normal street tyre will make no difference to its ability to retain "pressure" or reduce "leakage".
Nitrogen wont make any difference if the tyre is punctured in normal usage it will loose pressure just as fast, but contrary to what p.dath is saying, without being punctured it will "leak down" a lot slower and so you will retain correct pressures a lot longer

Also let me call "bull shit" on the sales man claim that you hear that nitrogen improves handling. Correct tyre pressure improves handling - not the concentration of nitrogen being put into the tyre.
I haven't once ever heard a salesman claim that and I've spent a fair bit of time with people who sell it
as he says correct pressure improves handling but nitrogen will retain correct pressure longer

Also let me call "bull shit" on the sale man claim that nitrogen makes your tyres wear slower or last longer. Correct tyre pressure, again, is what will give yours tyres the longest life then can achieve. Changing the nitrogen percentage will not have any significant effect on street tyres.
Again what he says is true about correct pressure but totally wrong about the nitrogen percentage not having any significant effect because once again it retain that "correct pressure" longer

I think the only major tyre people left "promoting" nitrogen use for street tyre use in New Zealand is Firestone. Everyone else stopped about 5s after the trend started when they all realised it was smoke and mirrors.
When it was originally introduced I was very cynical about it's usage, since then over the last few years I can see a benefit unless of course you're the type of person who checks their tyre pressures on a regular basis and going by what I see there are very few about

I use it in my Motorcycle primarily because it will sometimes not be used for months at a time, prior to filling with nitrogen it would always need topping up 3-4 or more pound after 4-6 months without being used, with Nitrogen it doesn't need anything and for most people who are to lazy to check pressures that is the real benefit

[p.dath]

Have you ever used it yourself or like most naysayers are you speaking from a position of ignorance?

I've researched the issued, and consulted with professionals in the industry on it. I've also looked at where it is actually used (such as airplane tyres, heavy weight trucks, firetrucks), and can see clear reasons why it would be used - none of which apply to light commercial road tyre use.


Nitrogen wont make any difference if the tyre is punctured in normal usage it will loose pressure just as fast, but contrary to what p.dath is saying, without being punctured it will "leak down" a lot slower and so you will retain correct pressures a lot longer

And your going to tell me this because the higher concentration of nitrogen in the fill results in a larger molecule, correct? I looked into this claim quite a while ago, and found it to be mis-leading. I don't have the figures to hand, but the molecular size of the "stronger" nitrogen mix is negligible compared to the size of the holes in the tyre membrane that you are trying to prevent leakage through. Remember, that the *vast* majority of the molecules in the standard "air" full are *already* the same size as those in the "nitrogen" fill.


I haven't once ever heard a salesman claim that and I've spent a fair bit of time with people who sell it

Specifically, Firestone used to produce a red brochure that they gave out to people citing that it improved performance. I hope they have retracted this from the brochure now.

[Kickaha]

I've researched the issued, and consulted with professionals in the industry on it. I've also looked at where it is actually used (such as airplane tyres, heavy weight trucks, firetrucks), and can see clear reasons why it would be used - none of which apply to light commercial road tyre use.
The main reason and advantage for people using it in their personal vehicles is simply because it doesn't leak down at the same rate so the tyres stay at correct inflation pressure for much longer

And your going to tell me this because the higher concentration of nitrogen in the fill results in a larger molecule, correct? I looked into this claim quite a while ago, and found it to be mis-leading. I don't have the figures to hand, but the molecular size of the "stronger" nitrogen mix is negligible compared to the size of the holes in the tyre membrane that you are trying to prevent leakage through. Remember, that the *vast* majority of the molecules in the standard "air" full are *already* the same size as those in the "nitrogen" fill.
Actually I wasn't going to say any such thing, I'm well aware of that claim not being correct

Specifically, Firestone used to produce a red brochure that they gave out to people citing that it improved performance. I hope they have retracted this from the brochure now.
Indirectly it would though because of the tyres maintaining correct pressure for longer

Here's a real world test, post one proves how good it is
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/83129-Filling-bike-tyres-with-nitrogen!?highlight=nitrogen :whistle:

[avgas]

I fucken hate Avon's and Conti's

Fuck knows why. I just hate em.

[Kickaha]

Why do these tyres work OK on ST1100's but apparently not on ST1300's? As I stated previously, weight, power & torque aren't largely different between the two bikes so why is it 'well known' (to quote Riffer) that ST1300's are hard on their tyres? I find this a very intriguing side issue.... is it true and if so why? Or is it just internet myth?

I was doing some reading on another forum and it looked like the ST1100 and ST1300 run different size rear tyres (160 vs 170), some also commented on a "reinforced" version for the ST1100 rear? and that Avon don't have a recommendation for the ST1300

Looking at Avons tyre chart they have a 160/70R17 with a load rating of 437kg while the highest load rating on a 170/60R17 is 355kg

So unless they are using the same size/load rating/speed rated tyre the comparisons between the ST1100 and ST1300 are meaningless

[cs363]

I was doing some reading on another forum and it looked like the ST1100 and ST1300 run different size rear tyres (160 vs 170), some also commented on a "reinforced" version for the ST1100 rear? and that Avon don't have a recommendation for the ST1300

Looking at Avons tyre chart they have a 160/70R17 with a load rating of 437kg while the highest load rating on a 170/60R17 is 355kg

So unless they are using the same size/load rating/speed rated tyre the comparisons between the ST1100 and ST1300 are meaningless

Thanks for that, I was curious as I don't know much about these bikes and couldn't see much difference between them on the face of it.

Interesting that Avon manufacture a Storm Ultra in 170/16ZR17 & 120/70ZR18 but their tyre chooser comes up with:

ST 1300 / A (2002 onwards)
Front tyres
Pressure front: -
Front size: 120/70ZR18 No Avon Tyre Fitment
Rear tyre
Pressure rear: -
Rear size: 170/60ZR17 No Avon Tyre Fitment

(Posted to clarify Kickaha's comment re: lack of a recommendation from Avon)

Perhaps 'Mr Avon' knows something the OP's dealer didn't bother to find out?

Also from Avon's website:

"Just because a tyre will fit on your bike doesn’t mean it’s the right tyre. Check your bike’s handbook to see what the right specification should be, or if you’ve lost the handbook ask your local Avon dealer for help. The speed and load ratings for your tyres should be the same as the original fitment items – never fit a tyre of a lesser specification. And although it is possible in certain circumstances to fit a tyre of a non-standard dimension, always seek the advice of either your bike’s manufacturer or your Avon tyre dealer before doing so."

Looks to me like the problem lies more with the people that sold and fitted the tyres to the OP's bike based on the info provided by Avon themselves.

[caspernz]

Mmmm, been reading this thread mostly out of curiosity, have an interest in the ST1300 as my next bike, and as an avid rider tyres are always an interesting topic.

First up the nitrogen issue. I'm a sceptic as well, with about 80% of air being made up of the stuff. Funnily enough the wife takes the car in for a service, current model XR6 Falcon, and comes back with the tyres now filled with nitrogen. Yeah right me thinks, but it just "feels" different. Maybe I'm imagining it? Well, a few months go by and funnily enough the tyres hold their pressure better/longer. Me being the anal prick that I am, I check tyre pressures on the bike almost daily and on the car once a week. Well on the car we go from having to add 1 to 2 psi a month to maybe half a psi a month. Electronic digital pressure gauge, use the same one on car and bike. So at least that part is true, nitrogen seems to "leak out" slower than the free air we use. Oh, and when I add air to the car tyres, it's just air, not the nitrogen that I have to go see a tyre shop for, if this is the only tangible benefit I can detect, I'll stick to adding air more often....

Anyhow, if I'd had a tyre failure as nasty as what I've seen in the photos put up on this thread, I'd be pissed off too. I'll take the OP as an experienced biker, hey the Rusty Nuts brigade deserve that respect, and as he knows his bike he'd have known if anything other than the tyre was at fault? Add to that other owners of the ST1300 having similar failures....mmmm....trend? Add to that yet another group of riders who are happy with the Avons that the OP has had a problem with.

This rather reminds of something from my day job. I drive fuel tankers for a living and have done so for longer than I care to admit. Oil companies chase tare weight with a passion, which takes us to a tyre issue that came to light as a result of a foray into reducing tare weight. Semi trailers which had been running 265/70 19.5 tyres could save tare weight by going with a 245/70 19.5 both by the tyre being lighter and the rim being narrower and thus lighter. The only problem being that the load being imposed on the 245 tyre was very close to its rated maximum, whereas the 265 had plenty in reserve in comparison. The tyre wear and failure trend on the 245 that followed made this a fairly short lived experiment....

So taking into account the OP rides hard and long in NZ conditions, on a tyre that is quite likely at the edge of its comfort zone with a weekend warrior on his ST1300 on a leisurely cruise....failure when pushed isn't a surprise. Seems Avon changed the construction from Storm to Storm Ultra?

Oh, that Mangaweka railway crossing is legendary for wrecking all manner of equipment by the way.

Rusty cords can be indicative of many things, but in practical terms they are most likely caused by an object partly penetrating the tyre. The number of nails, screws, bits of steel, embedded stones, shards of glass etc I pick out of my trucks' tyres is staggering, which kinda makes me look long and hard at my bikes' tyres whenever I'm doing serious distances in a short time.

I'm no detective, but I'd guess that the spectacular failure of the third Avon had a chronology along the lines of: nice black Avon at the edge of its limits, partly punctured by road debris, get it nice and hot in its weakened state and its just a matter of time before it gives up.

The odd ball tyre sizes on the ST1300 don't help, it's as if the 170/60 rear is on the small side? I tend to ride long and hard, you gotta make the most of the opportunity after all....having the ST1300 and Concourse 14 on the shortlist for the next bike....would love to hear of someone who rides long and hard on either and their (successful?) tyre choices?? Oh and the outcome of the OP and the debate with the tyre outfit of course!

[Ocean1]

The main reason and advantage for people using it in their personal vehicles is simply because it doesn't leak down at the same rate so the tyres stay at correct inflation pressure for much longer

I once had occasion to run a tyre for an extended period after having been slimed (TM).

Months later, feeling guilty that I hadn't checked the pressure for a while I found it was fine, (same guage too), only then did I remember that someone had slimed it. Couldn't bring myself to leave it there though.

[ducatisl]

Mmmm, been reading this thread mostly out of curiosity, have an interest in the ST1300 as my next bike, and as an avid rider tyres are always an interesting topic.

First up the nitrogen issue. I'm a sceptic as well, with about 80% of air being made up of the stuff. Funnily enough the wife takes the car in for a service, current model XR6 Falcon, and comes back with the tyres now filled with nitrogen. Yeah right me thinks, but it just "feels" different. Maybe I'm imagining it? Well, a few months go by and funnily enough the tyres hold their pressure better/longer. Me being the anal prick that I am, I check tyre pressures on the bike almost daily and on the car once a week. Well on the car we go from having to add 1 to 2 psi a month to maybe half a psi a month. Electronic digital pressure gauge, use the same one on car and bike. So at least that part is true, nitrogen seems to "leak out" slower than the free air we use. Oh, and when I add air to the car tyres, it's just air, not the nitrogen that I have to go see a tyre shop for, if this is the only tangible benefit I can detect, I'll stick to adding air more often....

Anyhow, if I'd had a tyre failure as nasty as what I've seen in the photos put up on this thread, I'd be pissed off too. I'll take the OP as an experienced biker, hey the Rusty Nuts brigade deserve that respect, and as he knows his bike he'd have known if anything other than the tyre was at fault? Add to that other owners of the ST1300 having similar failures....mmmm....trend? Add to that yet another group of riders who are happy with the Avons that the OP has had a problem with.

This rather reminds of something from my day job. I drive fuel tankers for a living and have done so for longer than I care to admit. Oil companies chase tare weight with a passion, which takes us to a tyre issue that came to light as a result of a foray into reducing tare weight. Semi trailers which had been running 265/70 19.5 tyres could save tare weight by going with a 245/70 19.5 both by the tyre being lighter and the rim being narrower and thus lighter. The only problem being that the load being imposed on the 245 tyre was very close to its rated maximum, whereas the 265 had plenty in reserve in comparison. The tyre wear and failure trend on the 245 that followed made this a fairly short lived experiment....

So taking into account the OP rides hard and long in NZ conditions, on a tyre that is quite likely at the edge of its comfort zone with a weekend warrior on his ST1300 on a leisurely cruise....failure when pushed isn't a surprise. Seems Avon changed the construction from Storm to Storm Ultra?

Oh, that Mangaweka railway crossing is legendary for wrecking all manner of equipment by the way.

Rusty cords can be indicative of many things, but in practical terms they are most likely caused by an object partly penetrating the tyre. The number of nails, screws, bits of steel, embedded stones, shards of glass etc I pick out of my trucks' tyres is staggering, which kinda makes me look long and hard at my bikes' tyres whenever I'm doing serious distances in a short time.

I'm no detective, but I'd guess that the spectacular failure of the third Avon had a chronology along the lines of: nice black Avon at the edge of its limits, partly punctured by road debris, get it nice and hot in its weakened state and its just a matter of time before it gives up.

The odd ball tyre sizes on the ST1300 don't help, it's as if the 170/60 rear is on the small side? I tend to ride long and hard, you gotta make the most of the opportunity after all....having the ST1300 and Concourse 14 on the shortlist for the next bike....would love to hear of someone who rides long and hard on either and their (successful?) tyre choices?? Oh and the outcome of the OP and the debate with the tyre outfit of course!



just to put an end to this thread.... this person that had the problems never contacted the NZ importer for Avon tyres to voice his concerns, he just got on here and started mouthing off about the product.
Also please note, Avon do not recommend fitting this tyre to this bike. Who ever recommended this fitment was wrong, and he should be taking up this complaints with them.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Storm ultra 2, infact they are even better than the previous storm as far as milage and performance goes.

[Jantar]

just to put an end to this thread.... this person that had the problems never contacted the NZ importer for Avon tyres to voice his concerns, he just got on here and started mouthing off about the product. ......

That is not correct. The OP did prepare a comprehensive report on his tyre usage for the importers. as shown by
..... I wrote the attached pdf report and gave it to my repairers to pass on, but got no response.... Either the repairers did not pass that on, or the NZ importer did not wish to respond. Do you really expect every motorcyclist to know who the importers of every brand is? The retailer of the tyres should know, but not the customer. IMO the OP did the correct thing, his post on here was only after trying to give the importers the chance to respond.

ducatisl, are you employed by the importer per chance?

[caspernz]

That is not correct. The OP did prepare a comprehensive report on his tyre usage for the importers. as shown by Either the repairers did not pass that on, or the NZ importer did not wish to respond. Do you really expect every motorcyclist to know who the importers of every brand is? The retailer of the tyres should know, but not the customer. IMO the OP did the correct thing, his post on here was only after trying to give the importers the chance to respond.

ducatisl, are you employed by the importer per chance?

Haha, I was just thinking ducatisl was connected to the importer, at least judging by the defensive stance.

When we buy tyres, as long as it's the right size and load rating, what else are we supposed to go by?

Maybe there is a reason why when I think of Avon I think cosmetics as opposed to tyres?

[Gremlin]

....would love to hear of someone who rides long and hard on either and their (successful?) tyre choices?? Oh and the outcome of the OP and the debate with the tyre outfit of course!
Honestly, the best tyre is something you have to decide. Tyres are extremely subjective, so much so that someone else, using the same bike as I had, loves a tyre we've both run. I hated it. It can differ by that much. Pick the tyres that fit and suit your bike, and start with the best of the bunch, running a set of each (doesn't take too long to run out a set :innocent:). Any tyre should perform well in the dry day, but pouring rain at night on a slippery road sets apart good tyres from crap ones.


ducatisl, are you employed by the importer per chance?

...he just got on here and started mouthing off about the product.
mmm I think the odds are better than average he is... Almost reminds me of that customer service thread, the way he's trying to bash KoroJ. Bad luck mr ducatisl... When you have 120,000km on a bike, you should be assuming he's run a few sets of tyres, and been around the block once or twice.

[Jantar]

Confirmed. He hasn't posted on here very much and I was able to find this:


hi there. i work for Dold Industries in hamilton ...(snip)..... Dold industries 130 maui st hamilton ph ham 07 8494392 cheers Brendon

The Dold website says that they import Avon tyres.




ducatisl, say Hi to Roger for me. Cheers, Malcolm

[caspernz]

Haha, this thread hasn't come to an end yet, at least not until the OP gets some joy from either the retailer or importer of the failed tyre in question. Just 'cause someone from DOLD has got his panties in a bunch, instead of being professional....

[Kickaha]

When we buy tyres, as long as it's the right size and load rating, what else are we supposed to go by?


Manufacturers recommendations,which for whatever reason there isn't one for that brand for that bike

I'd be interested why there isn't

[Hitcher]

Manufacturers recommendations,which for whatever reason there isn't one for that brand for that bike

I'd be interested why there isn't

Which is kind of strange, as there's only one bike on the planet that uses tyres that size. Why do Avon make them if they're not going to fit anything else?

[caspernz]

Manufacturers recommendations,which for whatever reason there isn't one for that brand for that bike

I'd be interested why there isn't

Yes me too. But the tyre manufacturers are often outdated with their recommendations. Checked the Michelin site and found them still recommending Pilot Road 2 for the ST1300, when the Pilot Road 3 has been out for a year or so??

Tyre size and load rating are all I've ever gone by, tyres and bikes are updated so often I'd guess it's hard to keep updating for all makes and models of bikes?

[KoroJ]

I guess I can assume from this, that if Mr Avon & Mr Dold didn't know about my crappy run with their Storm 2 Ultras.....they do now!


As for the nitrogen thing. I didn't hear it from a salesman, but from an extremely experienced rider trainer who uses it. I don't profess to know any of the whys or wherefores, just that it would seem, with the nitrogen in it appears the tyres don't heat up as much, therefore the pressures don't change as much in use and probably that is why they don't seem to deflate, (or deflate as quickly)...and apparently the bike seems to handle better??

As for my riding and experience. Did a lot of offroading and touring on trailbikes and Trumpy 650's in the 70's, then didn't ride much for near on 20 years. Since becoming a born again in 2005, I've ridden around 150,000Km. I have managed to wear through a few tyres in that time...some of which I liked and some I didn't. As the thread title suggests, I dearly loved the Storms, but have nothing but scorn for the Storm Ultras.

I just want to ride, I serviced my bike 'back in the day', but now I just want to ride. I'm happy to try things and when it was suggested the Storms were good, I tried them. I didn't investigate etc. etc. whether or not they were approved. I didn't particularly like the OEM's so why would I take much notice of Honda's recommendation after that. I found the Storms great and went through several sets....even pre-ordering to ensure I had the next set available when I needed them (thanks to the tardy stockholding by the distributors).

I am convinced that the first two Storm Ultra tyres failed (as per the attached pdf on the first post) There was no debris lodged in the tyres and both tyres punctured in the same place and multiple times. One might expect this from near worn tyres but not early in their life and was it coincidental...maybe, but I doubt it. The third tyre went in dramatic fashion and but for the grace of God am I hear to write this. Had I been anywhere other than a long straight, I would be toast. Finding the thread on the ST-Owners site just confirmed my suspicions.

Quite frankly I don't really care about any outcome from this. What can Avon offer me...a free set of tyres?? Why on earth would I want that. I don't plan to use the product again. Is it my fault I used an unapproved, unfit for purpose tyre???....as far as I'm concerned, if that were the case, then Avon should have been advising their distributors, 'OK for these bikes, not OK for those'. Why were the Storms so good and the Ultras so bad? (There was no perceptable difference to me in handling, just failure to last and I only got 20,000Km out of 3 tyres).

I just want to ride and I'm off to Turangi tomorrow to do 900Km on Friday and 1600Km Saturday/Sunday. I must have been keen for a few K's because I am registered as No1 in Gp1 for my 6th GC. I will do it on my 'Old Faithful' Big-Red ST, shod with Bridgestone 023's. I have no idea if they are rated as suitable for the bike but, to me, they feel better than the OEM 020's. All I know is, they are dual compound so I don't expect to get a great life, but this is the first set I've tried and 'we shall see'. If they don't pan out, I'll try something else until I find a tyre that feels good and wears reasonably well....like the old Storms used to!!

[Gremlin]

I guess I can assume from this, that if Mr Avon & Mr Dold didn't know about my crappy run with their Storm 2 Ultras.....they do now!

(There was no perceptable difference to me in handling, just failure to last and I only got 20,000Km out of 3 tyres).
Haha, tis a wee bit late init? KoroJ has long left the Avon family.

btw... I'd be happy with 20k from 3 sets :facepalm: First set I tried of Pirellis were pulled off in 5k quite seriously disappearing out the middle and no good for a long trip coming up. The PR/PR2 combo faired well, again, had to be pulled off early at 7-8k because they wouldn't last the next 7k, and the Conti Trail Attack has been pulled off after about 7k, might sell them, as I don't really want them near my bike again.

In summary, 20k in 3 is pretty sweet so far and I have less power and less weight than you :shutup:

[p.dath]

The main reason and advantage for people using it in their personal vehicles is simply because it doesn't leak down at the same rate so the tyres stay at correct inflation pressure for much longer

Let me try explaining it using logic then. Ordinary air mostly contains nitrogen. So lets pretend that the slightly larger molecules leak at a slower rate than the air molecules. If this was the case, the concentration of nitrogen in the tyre would increase as the non-nitrogen leaked out. And each time the tyre would need a smaller top up to get pressure, as the nitrogen mix got stronger and stronger in the tyre. Eventually you would have a nitrogen mix in the tyre as strong as putting in straight nitrogen.

But this is not the case.

[Kickaha]

Let me try explaining it using logic then. Ordinary air mostly contains nitrogen. So lets pretend that the slightly larger molecules leak at a slower rate than the air molecules. If this was the case, the concentration of nitrogen in the tyre would increase as the non-nitrogen leaked out. And each time the tyre would need a smaller top up to get pressure, as the nitrogen mix got stronger and stronger in the tyre. Eventually you would have a nitrogen mix in the tyre as strong as putting in straight nitrogen.

But this is not the case.

You can try explaining it using any logic you like, from practical experience I know it works


Which is kind of strange, as there's only one bike on the planet that uses tyres that size. Why do Avon make them if they're not going to fit anything else?

The rear size was common fitment on a lot of mid nineties to early 2000s bikes

[Hitcher]

The rear size was common fitment on a lot of mid nineties to early 2000s bikes

Are any of those listed on Mr Avon's fitment guide?

I haven't ever placed much store in fitment guides, exacerbated by having owned an Aprilia SL750 Shiver, which is listed on very few; and now a Suzuki GSX1250FA, a model rarely mentioned by tyre manufacturers. Yes, it's probably the same as a post-2007 Bandit of the same engine size, but again many tyre manufacturers have not yet caught up with the arrival of the 1250 engine. Such omissions make tyre manufacturers' published fitment guides all the more laughable.

[scracha]

One and Two were punctures which can happen to any tyre anywhere

Three was a tyre failure and the only one I'd be really concerned with

Fuggin unlikely though. I mean, I've had 2 punctures in about 18 years or roughly 500,000 Kms. Does he live near a nail factory or something?



just to put an end to this thread.... this person that had the problems never contacted the NZ importer for Avon tyres to voice his concerns, he just got on here and started mouthing off about the product.
Also please note, Avon do not recommend fitting this tyre to this bike. Who ever recommended this fitment was wrong, and he should be taking up this complaints with them.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Storm ultra 2, infact they are even better than the previous storm as far as milage and performance goes.


I'll translate:

Dear OP, thank you for your fair feedback of the product we distribute and I would like to personally apologise for my earlier rash and slightly patronising response.. Upon further research, it appears that indeed this tyre is unsuitable for this particular model of motorcycle. We have contacted our retail channel and updated our distributor website to advise dealers of this. We are sorry to hear that one of our dealers haven't passed on your feedback to us as we do encourage them to contact us for technical and quality issues with our products. The reasons for this are obvious as we would rather resolve these types of issues efficiently without end users having to resort to public forums to voice their concerns. Rest assured, we will review the account status of any of our dealers who fail to provide appropriate backup for any of our products.

Please accept our apologies and we sincerely hope you'll try Avon tyres again with a different motorcycle / tyre combination.

[Gremlin]

I'll translate:

Dear OP, thank you for your fair feedback of the product we distribute and I would like to personally apologise for my earlier rash and slightly patronising response.. Upon further research, it appears that indeed this tyre is unsuitable for this particular model of motorcycle. We have contacted our retail channel and updated our distributor website to advise dealers of this. We are sorry to hear that one of our dealers haven't passed on your feedback to us as we do encourage them to contact us for technical and quality issues with our products. The reasons for this are obvious as we would rather resolve these types of issues efficiently without end users having to resort to public forums to voice their concerns. Rest assured, we will review the account status of any of our dealers who fail to provide appropriate backup for any of our products.

Please accept our apologies and we sincerely hope you'll try Avon tyres again with a different motorcycle / tyre combination.
You got all that out of his few lines? :gob:

[TOTO]

It would be interesting to get your bike some Michelin Pilot Road 3 and see how you like them. I'm loving them, but my bike is nowhere near as heavy as yours.


I just noticed this at the bottom of the thread.

Three known long distance riders. :yes:

+ the ones in invisible mode :p



I have no idea what you would use to measure the tyre temperature though ...

can use one of those to measure the temp of the tyre

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/212-tools/6898-micro_temp_pro_digital_infrare.aspx

[Blackbird]

It would be interesting to get your bike some Michelin Pilot Road 3 and see how you like them. I'm loving them, but my bike is nowhere near as heavy as yours.

I'm loving the PR3's on the Street Triple, but then again, the Avon Storms, Avon Storm Ultras and Avon VP2's I had both on the Blackbird and Triple were great tyres too :innocent:

[Hitcher]

I'd add Mr Metzeler's Z8 Interacts to that list as well.

[BigOne]

I'm loving the PR3's on the Street Triple, but then again, the Avon Storms, Avon Storm Ultras and Avon VP2's I had both on the Blackbird and Triple were great tyres too :innocent:

I'm not sure what makes the ST1300 such a unique bike, except that the rear tyre size is narrow compared to modern big bore bikes.
Not sure either why they are reported to eat dual compound tyres quickly.

I've used dual compound Pilot Road 2CTs and 3CTs on my GSX1400 for 60,000kms, and get 12-14k out of each set, depending on a track day or two. Granted, it's a 190 tyre, but other things about the ST and the GSX like torque delivery and weight would by pretty even, I'd have thought.
I use the Michelins at 36psi front and rear, and they wear out evenly and without flats or cupping developing.