My first serious crash: typically common scenario. What next?

[jorxster]

Hi fellow riders!

So I was heading north of Orewa yesterday evening on the old highway 1, taking a gradual corner to the right. It was just out of orewa, still houses on either side and the limit was 70. Beautiful night out, on my '92 VFR750.

Saw a grey sedan pull up on the left at an intersection, I don't think he stopped completely, but he was going very slow. I slowed down a little, then figured he probably saw me. He inched forward, then started to accelerate. I realized I had a problem!
Jammed on the brakes, rear tire locked up, and then the front tire locked up. Went down on the right side and glanced off his front fender. I was thrown clear, tumbled a little before landing on my feet.

Sooooo glad to be wearing full gear, every piece had at least a single moderate graze from the asphalt, (except my gloves which were untouched).
Although I'm fine physically, this has me seriously considering ABS. If I had managed to maintain control, I might have been able to turn around his front end, but as the front tire locked up, I was down before I knew it!
I wish ABS wasn't so darn expensive, and I wish it were easy to install an after-market unit!

He admitted fault no problem, police took statements and everything. He had no insurance. I thought I had 3rd party on my bike- but realized I had put it off because of a 3 month delay in getting it on the road ( an electrical issue ).

The tow driver on the way back to home gave me advice : he said get 2 valuations, one for the worth of the bike (parts), and one for the cost of damage repair. He said with that I should be able make an informed decision that way, and have paperwork for the other driver to request finances.

Sound like I'm on the right track?

[riffer]

No insurance for him; no insurance for you.

Yeah, good luck with that one.

It staggers me how people just "forget" to get insurance.

On another note, glad you're not too badly hurt. As for ABS, yeah it might save your butt; then again, you might just have a different type of accident.

This is one of these times where some practice on the bike finding out just how hard you can squeeze the brakes before they lock would have make a huge amount of difference.

[Madness]

Motorcyclists got by without ABS for many, many years without all becoming squishy puddles on the road and many will continue to do so for years to come.

:shutup:

[bluninja]

Glad your body is in one piece. IMHO ABS wouldn't fix this problem; improving your bike handling skills is cheaper and transfers to any bike you own (it'll even work with ABS).

Here's a couple of cheap tips....

1)Use the horn....it's best used before they pull out :yes:
Don't presume or assume a driver has seen you. If you're not sure use the horn; a short blast/toot should get them to turn towards the sound. If there's no reaction ASSUME they aren't aware of your existence, slow down and prepare to stop.

2)Practice hard braking, you never know when you'll need it.

[FJRider]

ABS is not a magical cure/fix to all accidents ...

Better to spend the money on rider training courses ...

and listen more to the little warning "voices" in your head ...

[tigertim20]

Hi fellow riders!


Saw a grey sedan pull up on the left at an intersection, I don't think he stopped completely, but he was going very slow. I slowed down a little, then figured he probably saw me. He inched forward, then started to accelerate. I realized I had a problem!
Jammed on the brakes, rear tire locked up, and then the front tire locked up. Went down on the right side and glanced off his front fender. I was thrown clear, tumbled a little before landing on my feet.

?

great job, being aware of whats going on

THIS was the issue. Your contributing factor to the accident was assumption, not the lack of ABS.

Glad to hear you are pretty much unhurt, another win for good gear!

[steve_t]

Gutted man. Glad to hear you're OK. At a guess, the grey sedan driver will probably end up paying you $20 a week for the next few years (much more than insurance would cost no doubt) :facepalm:

[Usarka]

1)Use the horn....it's best used before they pull out :yes:
Don't presume or assume a driver has seen you. If you're not sure use the horn; a short blast/toot should get them to turn towards the sound. If there's no reaction ASSUME they aren't aware of your existence, slow down and prepare to stop.


That's a very under-rated / under-utilised piece of advice.

[Bikemad]

oh man.....i hope no one from ACC reads this
glad your ok fella.........expensive lesson learned i suspect

[FJRider]

That's a very under-rated / under-utilised piece of advice.

I leaned on the horn once in a similar situation ... and the car driver gave me the finger ...

With the right of way or not ... its best to avoid contact ... and dont take it personally ....

[bluninja]

But did he stop at the junction to give you the finger, or just drive out giving the finger?

I agree that it's about remaining intact rather than remaining right :)

[Tigadee]

I leaned on the horn once in a similar situation ... and the car driver gave me the finger ...

Heck, at least you GOT his attention! LOL! Just gotta grow some thick skin at the same time!

[FJRider]

Heck, at least you GOT his attention! LOL!

Nah ... Still didn't look at me ... :angry:


Just gotta grow some thick skin at the same time!

Sadly ... it does help ... :facepalm:

[scracha]

He admitted fault no problem, police took statements and everything. He had no insurance. I thought I had 3rd party on my bike- but realized I had put it off because of a 3 month delay in getting it on the road ( an electrical issue ).

The tow driver on the way back to home gave me advice : he said get 2 valuations, one for the worth of the bike (parts), and one for the cost of damage repair. He said with that I should be able make an informed decision that way, and have paperwork for the other driver to request finances.

Sound like I'm on the right track?

You having 3rd party would not have helped you at all. That said, you really should get at least 3rd party in the event YOU cause an accident.

Towie is right but from my "bitter" experience, if the guy has no insurance, he's probably got no money and no credit rating. If he's got no money then you'll probably waste a fuckload of time with small claims court and if you're lucky get paid back at 0.50c per week.
a) Ascertain if he's working / got money / can get a bank loan etc.
b) If he hasn't, then take the valuation round to his place. Get a cheque/playstation/tv/whatever for half the amount (final offeR), tell him you'll fix it up yourself and take no further action and put it down to experience.

YOU CAN'T GET BLOOD OUT OF A STONE

[FJRider]

But did he stop at the junction to give you the finger, or just drive out giving the finger?

The latter ... :gob:

[PrincessBandit]

Yeah, it sure helps to have the right gear when body meets the hard surface of whatever it is you end up sliding along/bouncing off etc.

The insurance thing is a bummer - but I'm sure you'll learn something about that out of this incident (either it becomes a priority with your bike ownership, or you still don't consider it a biggie - some people would still think that after an experience like yours).

As for ABS my hubby said the same thing when i had my spill - "if only you'd had ABS you might not have lost control of the bike in your braking". I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have saved my ass. However I was lucky enough to walk away with only a broken collar bone; my gear took the brunt of everything else, and I considered it an enormously valuable lesson learnt.

you've walked away from yours and I hope that the lessons you've learnt will stand you in good stead for the remainder of your riding days!

[baffa]

Bad luck on the accident.

Re the insurance angle, third party policies will sometimes carry a feature that covers you if you are hit by a third party driver who doesnt have insurance. So although full cover is best, third party can also help.

Also insurance can cover your gear as well, as well as paying you out in full, and recovering the cost from the silly cager. As others have said, even if he is at fault, it's unlikely for you to get paid out quickly.

[Zadkiel]

Yes, as per above, third party policies often have "Uninsured Driver Protection" which covers you up to a certain amount for events your not at fault for and then they attempt to reclaim the money themselves. You will be having a hard time dealing with it yourself though unfortunately.

Good luck!

[caspernz]

Riding without insurance....mmm, personal choice I suppose. Did you learn anything?

Not listening to the little voices that warn you....assuming the other driver has seen you....then locking up under brakes....to me that sounds you're just like about 90% of motorcyclists who think they don't need any training on how to ride properly.

ABS will help in some instances, but not unless you've done some practice or have been trained how to use it properly.

Hey, at least you had the brains to wear the right gear so it's not all bad...

[Spearfish]

ABS or no ABS is a tricky one.
I know a well practised rider can scrub of speed faster than one relying on ABS but surly ABS lifts the average?

[Swoop]

I like uninsured drivers.

One idiot decided to drive into my car and they provided a new wheel + tyre + wheel alignment + panelbeating + painting.

I just left the insurance company to sort it all out. Very pleasant and saved me a heap of $$$'s.

[pritch]

I know a well practised rider can scrub of speed faster than one relying on ABS but surly ABS lifts the average?

Magazines have tested this.

The experienced racer types can stop faster without ABS - after a practice run or two.
In the real world you don't get a couple of warm ups. In that situation, unless your mates name is Rossi or Stoner, he'll probably be faster with ABS. Whether he thinks so or not.

[blackdog]

I know a well practised rider can scrub of speed faster than one relying on ABS but surly ABS lifts the average?

I hope I never have to rely on information you KNOW is correct in the future.

Perhaps a little research before posting hastily next time?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi fellow riders!
then figured he probably saw me.

there's your problem.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Magazines have tested this.

The experienced racer types can stop faster without ABS - after a practice run or two.
In the real world you don't get a couple of warm ups. In that situation, unless your mates name is Rossi or Stoner, he'll probably be faster with ABS. Whether he thinks so or not.

Yeah, cycle world tested it with Don Canet a few years ago.

[caspernz]

ABS improves the odds for most of us mortals.
How many bikes have ABS today?
How many had it 10 years ago?
Wanna bet how many have it in 10 years time?

I reckon that at least 90% of the problem is poor rider technique or skills, so we look to the 10% that technology can help us with....

My next bike will no doubt have ABS, but that doesn't mean I'll feel invincible....

[oracle]

Since he caused the incident*, both by own admission and by police ruling I presume, you should also go to a bike shop and ask for a quote to replace your gear since you said that all but your gloves were damaged.

*have to agree with all the self-righteous sounding people that almost all crashes aren't accidents as they could easily be avoided including your own

[Spearfish]

I hope I never have to rely on information you KNOW is correct in the future.

Perhaps a little research before posting hastily next time?

Nothing hasty about my posts I'm timed out well before pushing the submit button most times:blink::facepalm:

I should have made the post clearer.

[caspernz]

Oh sounding self righteous usually comes after having learned some stupid things the hard way personally, I will admit. The funny thing is we often come into possession of the info we need, right after we needed it.

For me this hasn't involved hospital food, thankfully, but for too many of my mates it has.

Good luck getting your money from the tintop pilot at fault.

[jorxster]

Hey guys, thanks heaps for all the advice!

Quick background- I do have a few years of riding experience and defensive riding courses under my belt- I DO believe in training and riding as safely as possible. Riding without insurance was probably stupid on my part, something I won't do again.

I'm just in the process of trying to get a quote on the bike's value / damage so I have financial paperwork for the guy. He's an electrician, so hopefully not unemployed at the moment. Busiest time of the year for mechanics!


ABS seems to be quite a point of debate, I had no idea! So what should the professional rider without ABS be capable of, knowing exactly how much front brake to apply without locking it up? I've been able to recover from briefly locked front wheels before, (my old firestorm had wonderfully sensitive front brakes) but in this scenario it happened so quick that the bike was down before I knew it.
I'm not advocating ABS as a magical solution for bad riding of course, but I think that in my scenario it may have helped me maneuver around him rather then laying the bike on its side. I wish it were possible to install aftermarket ABS units on the front brake.

[Caleb]

" I slowed down a little, then figured he probably saw me."

There's the problem... "I slowed down a little."
Had you sped up to 150kph you would have gone straight past him :laugh:

[240]

I looked long and hard at the abs option for my bike last year. In the end I went for no abs as most of my riding is in the dry.
The bikes owners handbook warns that abs brakes do take longer to stop in the dry but better in the wet so it's up to you to decide when you do most of your riding.

[scracha]

ABS seems to be quite a point of debate, I had no idea! So what should the professional rider without ABS be capable of, knowing exactly how much front brake to apply without locking it up? I've been able to recover from briefly locked front wheels before, (my old firestorm had wonderfully sensitive front brakes) but in this scenario it happened so quick that the bike was down before I knew it.
I'm not advocating ABS as a magical solution for bad riding of course, but I think that in my scenario it may have helped me maneuver around him rather then laying the bike on its side. I wish it were possible to install aftermarket ABS units on the front brake.

To all the self rightous peeps. After about 13 years and hundreds of thousands of kays trouble-free riding in Europe, I had a very similar off (also with an uninsured sporadically unemployed arsehole) a few years back in small town NZ...you see them, you close the throttle, you scrub 20k off your speed, they look straight at you, you think you've been spotted, you start to go back on the gas, their wheels start circulating and you think "how the fuck did he not see me with my headlight on and luminous yellow fucking vest?".

At least you had the experience to slow down when you saw him.....you might be 6ft under had you not.

Anyone who thinks they're experienced enough to not lock up a bike when something large and metal unexpectedly appears in front of them is dreaming. Experience only helps you keep it upright and unlock quicker. ABS is the shiz in REAL LIFE.

[actungbaby]

Hi dude

well i thought add i think was the better that ur bike did go down as that was idea years go to drop your bike on purpose so you whoudint hit the car and fly off i know i done the latter , but yeah i chouldint imagine having the nerve to lay bike down

you did alot better than me i didnt even get my hands to the brakes happened so fast one minute was all good I saw the car and thought whats worst he do is a u turn little did i know was car park and insteed a uturn he drive right in front of me ,next hit side the car at 70kph
dam that was big impact luckly i and my pillion where trown of the car mind you just remeber getting of my butt after nothing esle

Was bad experice but did least teach me to always think worst the drive can do and plan what to do next

But as i brought your vfr 750 you chould at least thrown you body underneth to protect it only kidding a bike just a machine



Hey guys, thanks heaps for all the advice!

Quick background- I do have a few years of riding experience and defensive riding courses under my belt- I DO believe in training and riding as safely as possible. Riding without insurance was probably stupid on my part, something I won't do again.

I'm just in the process of trying to get a quote on the bike's value / damage so I have financial paperwork for the guy. He's an electrician, so hopefully not unemployed at the moment. Busiest time of the year for mechanics!


ABS seems to be quite a point of debate, I had no idea! So what should the professional rider without ABS be capable of, knowing exactly how much front brake to apply without locking it up? I've been able to recover from briefly locked front wheels before, (my old firestorm had wonderfully sensitive front brakes) but in this scenario it happened so quick that the bike was down before I knew it.
I'm not advocating ABS as a magical solution for bad riding of course, but I think that in my scenario it may have helped me maneuver around him rather then laying the bike on its side. I wish it were possible to install aftermarket ABS units on the front brake.

[Grantman_]

yeah, the 'you should have been more careful' regurgitators in this thread slow down to say 20k's in 100k zones every time they go past stationary vehicles waiting at intersections, driveways and other entrances. Furthermore, they find it necessary to come to a complete stop on the open road, innumerable times, as they put their online criticisms into practice. They know only a complete stop, before the vehicle, will save them from a sudden move to t-bone.

[actungbaby]

yes i have to agree as trying to brake when your got just seconds to do it at least didnt frezze i say well done mate

and as i just brought his old bike and been same sitwation as young man and i didnt even have time to touch my brakes let alone lock them up ... itno side old dudes solid old car at 70kph bike was trashed i was okay

Got say i choose abs if had the choice no doubt , i still dont know to this day weather i frozze or was just to little time to react i have thought about alot since that day and was like 27 years ago.

if was 18 again and had abs first bike at least i whould just pulled on front with little fear locking up whould be bonus

i remember another time dog ran out in front me and jamed on back break locked it up not sure why i didnt
grab the front as well i know what u surposed to do but really think in panic stop u need to have it as second nature

just my thoughts though i have done riding training after my acident i enjoyed it alot was practicle
training with instructor so never to old to learn or too expericed either


To all the self rightous peeps. After about 13 years and hundreds of thousands of kays trouble-free riding in Europe, I had a very similar off (also with an uninsured sporadically unemployed arsehole) a few years back in small town NZ...you see them, you close the throttle, you scrub 20k off your speed, they look straight at you, you think you've been spotted, you start to go back on the gas, their wheels start circulating and you think "how the fuck did he not see me with my headlight on and luminous yellow fucking vest?".

At least you had the experience to slow down when you saw him.....you might be 6ft under had you not.

Anyone who thinks they're experienced enough to not lock up a bike when something large and metal unexpectedly appears in front of them is dreaming. Experience only helps you keep it upright and unlock quicker. ABS is the shiz in REAL LIFE.

[kewwig]

I love the ABS on my Bandit 1250, but 4 weeks ago I came around a gentle bend and instantly hit the deck at around 40ks, followed by the rider behind me, on a 200m long slick of diesel or oil. Dry road, lovely day and the slick was almost completely invisible. Not even time for an "oh shit I am gonna crash" - just straight down. A mate a couple of bikes back said it was weird to see 2 bikes just fall sideways

I took photos at the time and other than a slightly lighter strip, it just wasn't visible. A wet road would have had the telltale rainbow. No amount of ABS will help a lateral slide, but it's great for panic stops