A clean get away

[Sycophant]

I just dug my police scanner out of my box of crap (I'm working nights in the city, and bored as hell, so I figured, I become a bored loser with a scanner).

I pulled it out, switched it on, just in time to hear a Motorways unit try to pull over some guy on a bike who passed him at around 160. The guy didn't stop, and a brief chase ensued, but the guy lost him after leaving the Southern Motorway for the North Western. They never got a plate, and the guy got clean away.

I hope it wasn't anyone here.

[wari]

I just dug my police scanner out of my box of crap (I'm working nights in the city, and bored as hell, so I figured, I become a bored loser with a scanner).

I pulled it out, switched it on, just in time to hear a Motorways unit try to pull over some guy on a bike who passed him at around 160. The guy didn't stop, and a brief chase ensued, but the guy lost him after leaving the Southern Motorway for the North Western. They never got a plate, and the guy got clean away.

I hope it wasn't anyone here.I wasn't me occiffer.. :whistle:

[jrandom]

I hope it wasn't anyone here.

Why?

Oh, sorry, of course... you wouldn't want to hang out on a discussion board with the kind of degenerate criminals who would do 160 down the motorway and then fail to stop for a pair of disco lights... *bad* motorcyclist! Smack!

[Lou Girardin]

Naughty, naughty biker! Imagine doing a runner rather than lose your licence for a month. And dropping the 'pluck your licence' limit to 40km/h over won't make this more common either Will it?
Lou

[Timber020]

He got away with it, my hat off to him. cops are getting so anal about giving tickets and stomping on people they end up pushing people out of normal actions, creating a hardcore "criminal" element.
Its getting to the stage that getting pulled over doing what can be just overtaking speed on a decent sport bike costs so much thats it seems worth the gamble to flee. Its in human nature, fight or flight. Some bikes flee, and once youve done the initial runner youve got nothing to loose legally but theres a glimmer you could get away.
Im not saying its smart.

[Slingshot]

With all the talk about police chases over the last couple of days will have a big impact on the number of chases.

It sounds like as soon as a chase hits a certain speed the chase will be called off and will not be restarted. I wonder what the limit will be??? I guess that won't become public knowledge.

[Timber020]

With all the talk about police chases over the last couple of days will have a big impact on the number of chases.

It sounds like as soon as a chase hits a certain speed the chase will be called off and will not be restarted. I wonder what the limit will be??? I guess that won't become public knowledge.


Sure it will, I will keep you posted!

[Sycophant]

It sounds like as soon as a chase hits a certain speed the chase will be called off and will not be restarted. I wonder what the limit will be??? I guess that won't become public knowledge.

I am sure the Police will fight this, because as soon as it becomes a hard and fast rule, people will just do whatever they can to reach the cutoff speed. It seems even more dangerous.

If you know there's a maximum speed, you will just drop the hammer as soon as you see the red and blues. Don't know the exact limit? No problem, it's probably lower than your top speed, so just go as fast as possible.

When you consider all the crappy drivers in riced-racers driving around, and how much they'd be hating to loose their licence, I think it's a damn scary idea. I certainly don't want to be riding a bike on the same road as someone with 'nothing to lose' in a chase if they can go fast enough.

And, I hoped it wasn't anyone here because he was reported as weaving through traffic at up to 160km/h through the works area on the Southern Motorway south of Symonds St...

[Lou Girardin]

The cops say they stopped the chase at 100 in a 50 zone for the fatal in Mt Roskill.
I think it's Chicago Police that banned all traffic chases. Strangely enough, they haven't had a fatality in a chase since then. I believe the road toll stayed the same too. The cops do get majorly pissed off with bikers doing wheelies past them and not being able to stop them though.
Lou

[merv]

I think its time OSH stepped in because with cops behaving like they have, surely the hazard has been clearly identified and they (the Police) should be prosecuted for not taking all practicable steps to eliminate, minimise or isolate the hazard and they have clearly put lives at danger.

If its not safe for the public to drive over the speed limit (i.e they seem to imply you'll die immediately you break the limit) then this is clearly a hazard in the work place of the Police and they should not be allowed to speed at all.

How many other employers are prosecuted for deaths in their workplace by OSH? Its time these guys were treated the same.

[Jackrat]

If some body busts into your home an the cops are chasing them do you still want them to give up the chase,or maybe the runner is suspected of some other major crime what then. :argh:

[James Deuce]

If some body busts into your home an the cops are chasing them do you still want them to give up the chase,or maybe the runner is suspected of some other major crime what then. :argh:

Whatever you do don't "restrain" the dude that runs into your house (assuming it survives) because the cops will be witness to your assault and possible battery of the naughty speeder.

[wkid_one]

Not a day goes by now when I don't see the cops parked up on the side of one of the two motorways in Wellington pinging people with the laser looking for an excuse to right a ticket - yet in the main - if you travel at 120kph - very few cars pass you down here.

If my house was broken in to - it would take the 4 days at least to come and visit - I would be better off to jump in my car - speed around my neighbourhood and lead them back - caus sure as eggs, the minute I starting speeding, there will be a cop on my tail.

The worst is yet to come - Police in NZ are looking at double demerits during public holidays and inside reduced/controlled speed zones (eg outside Schools and construction zones) - something OZ has been running for a while now.

Who cares what they do about chases - provided the decision is based on common sense and safety. Somehow I think having a cut off level kinda promotes people to speed.

Lou - you mentioned no chasing in Chicago - HOWEVER, they are more traffic control and police helicopters there to pursue the car. Mind you - our helicopters still manage to crash over our motorways

[curious george]

We were talking about this at work the other day.I thought police chases were ok, chase 'till you can chase no more.

The opponents arguement was "what if that was your family that the crims smashed into?"
Ok, fair enough, but what if my family had just been assaulted/raped/killed/burgled and the police gave up. "Sorry, he was doing 65 in a 50 zone. Damn to fast for us"
How would that make you feel?

Either way there is a loss, just a question of what or who.
What do you do now? More helicopters/copsroadblocks/stunguns?Real guns?
Nobody I know has offered any plausable soultions-I think.
If you were top-cop, what would you do for real?

[Marmoot]

Amazing how in some issues we want procedures to be 100% politically correct and standardized, while in the others we want it to be case-by-case-reviewed and have room for discretion. And, in most of the time, the two conflict each other in 1 single situation.
:rolleyes:
I guess it is not easy being a government, eh? Especially when the rules in place are already fcuked up.

[mangell6]

I agree with you Merv, bring OSH rules into law enforcement arena and then the HP would not be able to stop on the side of the road, stand by your door and write you a ticket as it would be too dangerous for them.

Mike

PS I see that OSH are wanting to insist that "safety harnesses" are used when bungy jumping!!!

[wkid_one]

PS I see that OSH are wanting to insist that "safety harnesses" are used when bungy jumping!!!

Ummm - I would kinda hope some from of safety harness is already being used???

[wkid_one]

Cops have been trying for years to avoid chases - with all sorts of gadgets. They have tried a small EMP to disable the electrics of the car - tried with a little RC Cart that shoots out under the car being pursued and also a hook fired in to the body work of the car. There are the mobile tyre strips that deflate the cars tyres. And the list goes on.

Ultimately - if someone is going to run, they are going to run - surely with the number of police on the road at the moment - the radio would be the best solution??

It would be interesting to see stats as to how many people did runners BEFORE the police adopted a zero tolerance to traffic offences. Before you may have stopped because you might have been able to talk your ticket down or even you way out of it - now you have a shit show. The fallout of zero tolerance??

[Timber020]

I had an conversation yesterday with a girl whose father is a cop, a while back they were on holiday going south on the desert road when they were overtaken by a driver at speed, driving erratically. The father (with whole family in the car) chased after him in the family ford fairmont. He rang the police by cell phone and they gave him permission to continue to chase as the car had been reported driving erratically since just south of tauranga. Speeds reached 180kmph, and eventually he got infront of the driver in waioru and was able to block him in and arrest him.

Im not sure to believe the story as surely the police wouldnt allow someone to illegally pursuit someone in that situation considering any charge would have to be dropped if the driver knew jack about the law. (oh the driver was drunk).

[Sycophant]

Ultimately - if someone is going to run, they are going to run - surely with the number of police on the road at the moment - the radio would be the best solution??


I used to listen to my scanner quite a bit (working from home, in the city, at night - there were lots of sirens, I tended to be curious) - when a chase starts, they are generally giving a running commentary - any units nearby will start moving to instersect, while units from further afield with 'spike strips' onboard will be directed into the area to lay spikes in the road.

If Eagle is in the air, and not tied up with a higher priority, it will be immediately dispatched to cover. As soon as it has a visual on the target, if there are any adverse conditions, pursuing units will drop back and allow the pursuit to be controled from the air.

Also, free dog units will be directed to the chase area in case the suspects bail from the car. Also, units on other channels will be notified in case the chase starts to head in their direction.

By and large, having never been in a chase but having listened to quite a few, I would say the cops try their hardest to keep things as safe as they can, and certainly defer to safer options as they become available.

Many of the chases I have heard have been called off for safety reasons.



It would be interesting to see stats as to how many people did runners BEFORE the police adopted a zero tolerance to traffic offences. Before you may have stopped because you might have been able to talk your ticket down or even you way out of it - now you have a shit show. The fallout of zero tolerance??

Most people stop for traffic tickets I'd say, zero tolerance or otherwise - by and large, most of the chases I have heard have involved suspect vehicles from crime scenes, stolen cars or dangerous or drunk drivers.

The two incidents in the last two days have involved people who were dangerous or drunk drivers.

Moments after passing uneventfully through a breath test stop last night, I heard screeching of tires behind me, and was nearly knocked off my bike by someone who decided he didn't want to pass through the test and figured a high-speed u-turn was in order. He passed me, about a foot and a half from my bike, travelling at least 75km/h. I was very pleased to see two patrol cars take off after him not more than 20 seconds later. I pulled over for a wee breather - an officer approached me, got my details (he saw the near-hit) and assured me they had chased the guy for a couple of minutes but he was stopped and arrested.

I'm quite pleased they didn't just give up.

[curious george]

And there is the problem.
If you had been hit, but the police later said to you in your hospital bed, "sorry, we had to call the chase off - he hit 75!"
Police are a limited resource like anything else, so more units and a chopper were unavailable. Is giving up the chase really the best thing?

[wkid_one]

Sycophant - you really need to get out more!!!

[Sycophant]

Sycophant - you really need to get out more!!!

I do my best - that last post was just after I got home from work, and after being awake for 23 hours or something. It was a little rambly, I'll admit.

[marty]

until one has been involved in chasing a driver that doesn't want to stop, and is taking risks to avoid being caught, i cannot see how anyone can say 'police shouldn't chase'. maybe police should stop chasing people on foot too, in case they twist an ankle and waste the ACC account.

the OSH risk rate for a cop standing on a checkpoint, with all safety measures in place, in daylight, is 4500. the level for OSH to consider a job being 'extreme risk', is 450.

maybe we just shouldn't get out of bed.

[spudchucka]

I think its time OSH stepped in because with cops behaving like they have, surely the hazard has been clearly identified and they (the Police) should be prosecuted for not taking all practicable steps to eliminate, minimise or isolate the hazard and they have clearly put lives at danger.

If its not safe for the public to drive over the speed limit (i.e they seem to imply you'll die immediately you break the limit) then this is clearly a hazard in the work place of the Police and they should not be allowed to speed at all.

How many other employers are prosecuted for deaths in their workplace by OSH? Its time these guys were treated the same.

If you really believe that the police should never speed then I guess you will accept them driving at 50 kph while your daughter is getting raped, your house done over, your car / bike stolen.

Police pursue drivers for all sorts of reasons, often the driver was speeding or committing some other minor traffic offence. Often however the driver may be a wanted / dangerous criminal that is on the run or the may be fleeing the scene of an armed robbery. At what point dose it the risk to public saftey because of the pursuit driving out-weigh the public interest of apprehending the offending driver.

Once police pusuits are banned the public will begin to moan that the polcice never try to catch criminals. Watch the number of armed robberies go up, it won't take long.

IMHO

[merv]

Main thing I'm getting at being a biker that's been around a while is how NZ has become so regulated. To see so many Highway Patrol cars on the road and knowing they ping you for minor speeding infringements and also knowing how tough the OSH laws have got I thought if OSH had a look at the Police it might make both sides see how silly tight regulation is. I know people have said before if OSH had a look at the army then they wouldn't be allowed to go to war - too may known hazards that can't be safely dealt with. The Police are probably the same.

The focus on you and me doing 111km/hr on perfectly good 4 lane motorways is just absurd - like I've said here before its a bit like they are trying to say that the second you exceed 100km/hr it is instantly unsafe. However, to me they should be looking out for clearly dangerous and inconsiderate driving but I never see a cop pull up the person who doesn't indicate or keep left properly.

That's why so many of us think it reeks of revenue gathering and not road safety as there is no logical reason why they should concentrate on pinging people on perfectly good straight roads. Where are they at school patrols and places like that?

The old days the Police were able to exercise some discretion over speed that people travelled at - not now under these new tight regulations. The officers would say they are only doing their job as per their instructions.

NZ will either become so regulated that eventually there will be a revolution or it will become so crowded with immigrants that we won't have any freedom and no where move anyway. Our ancestors came here with a pioneering spirit and that seemed to hold for a long time. 20 years ago I used to cringe at US behaviour with them afraid to move for fear of being sued - goddamn its here now, but its the Government doing it to us. Is this really what we want.

I would agree there need to be some law and regulation but it needs to have a practicality about it and a degree of reasonableness. I get annoyed that the extreme events seem to drive the rule making, but the extreme events are caused by those with no regard for the law at all. Example the Northland Triumph crash - the guy had no licence, bike had no warrant, no rego and he was carrying a gun and ammo with no licence. Tighten up any of the laws associated with any of those things like they are apt to do and it would make no difference to a guy like him who no regard for the law. They will just piss off further the 99.99% of reasonable people. Chances are they will lower the speed limit on parts of that road from 100 to 80 for example to "stop such terrible crashes" but the guy was going 200.

I don't believe tight laws stop real criminals and real crims are who the cops shoudl eb after.

My crack about OSH having a go at the Police I doubt would slow them down getting to my house any quicker as someone else said here - have a burglary and you might see them in two days - they are too busy revenue gathering.

[spudchucka]

I don't believe tight laws stop real criminals and real crims are who the cops shoudl eb after.

My crack about OSH having a go at the Police I doubt would slow them down getting to my house any quicker as someone else said here - have a burglary and you might see them in two days - they are too busy revenue gathering.

You are right, laws do not stop the real criminals because they will continue to offend regardless of the law. Example: If gun ownership was totally banned then only criminals would have guns. Who would be comfortable with this situation? Not me!!

But ask youself why police are keen to catch drivers who are unwilling to stop when required to do so; the fact that the driver is willing to continue breaking the law by refusing to stop suggests that the driver has other reasons to avoid any police contact. Most reasonable people will stop on demand even if the are totally pissed off.

As far as OSH is concerned, if they were to have a close look at the police then the organisation would probably be shut down. Stopping a vehicle to issue a ticket is one of the most dangerous things that police do on a daily basis. Look at the cop in Hastings that got shot recently, you just don't know who that driver is or what he may be capable of. Then consider some of the other duties of police: refereeing domestics, attending bar brawls & street disorder, gang confrontations, P labs, simply placing somone under arrest is fraut with danger for the police officer.

Slagging off at the cops is one of the easiest things to do and often it seems that everone has a horror story regarding some gung-ho copper; but honestly unless you have done the job, you have no idea of the operational issues involved or the risks taken by individual officers in order to protect individuals and their property.

Sorry for the long post.

[diss1dent]

I think its crazy. In my car I've been in the same situation a few times. Generally its the head start u get that gets u away. But thats all in the safety of a car, once you realise those sirens are after you boy can you feel your heart beating.

One of the times I know for certain the officer following me well exceeded 180 as I was doing 230~ and not really gaining any ground from him. I only got away with some crafty doubleing back, but I had to turn the car off with letting the turbo cool down when I pulled up someones drive while he passed by. I found out the next day this routed my turbo and ended up costing more in new parts than the ticket probably would've.

But you see it on tv etc all the time, even if you run and get caught theres bugger all more punishment than if you stopped str8 away. I mean you know you've lost you licence anyway, so why not give it a go.

And know with the changes I bet the max speed limits will be adheered to, at least for awhile till they realise that more and more people are just putting there foot down (so to speak) when they see the cop behind them.

Personally I'd only ever speed excessivly if I knew the road anyway, and I don't know about you guys, but the roads where I live are easily taken at twice the limit, including corners. (In a car anyway.) Your main concern is Joe Bloggs who will pull out of a side street in front of something doing excessive speed.

Hmm my ranting has gone :Offtopic:

[Marmoot]

Heh, that makes sense :)
I'd say, if the penalty is roughly the same for trying to run away and for stopping, then more people would be tempted to try running away.
If we get punished for being a bad boy, can we get rewarded for being a good boy? But, then again, is it feasible? Heh heh :p

As far as police (improperly/unneededly) speeding, I find it very hard to control power. Rules cannot 100% control power, as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Only if the cop wants to restrain himself then the rule can control the power. Thus, it is useless to talk about cops speeding or driving dangerously as it would get us nowhere. Eh?

[Racer X]

Adding specific guidelines to police policy will be the only thing LTSA / government / police / ACC have ever done to actually reduce the road toll. This is because the excessive and pedantic road rules such as "You must carry your license with you at all times" or "Do not exceed 100 kph.. EVER!" are turning ordinary people into criminals for NO REASON AT ALL. For example, me alone on the motorway at approx 10pm at 122kph = $170 fine and 30 (i think) demerits. Cop was hiding on an on-ramp which is why i didn't see him.
Or when they ping you for going over 100 k's while on a passing lane!
Some say this will incite more people to run.. but the people who always stopped still will, and the people who always ran still will as well, only now there will be less danger to innocent people from people being pushed to the limits by the tax collectors - er, oops I mean "police"

On a bike I have never stopped for them and I never will.
NZ is turning into a police state.

[spudchucka]

On a bike I have never stopped for them and I never will.
NZ is turning into a police state.

You make me want to spew!!!!



With an attitude like that you might just grow up to be the next biker that vaporises himself and takes out an innocent party with him, ala Whangarei.

Wise up man!! No matter what you think of Govt rule & regs or the establishment in general, some things are just plain stupid. No matter how cool you think you are or how flash a rider you may be, if you run from the police at high speed you are just plain dumb!!

How would you like to be the young fella in Auck facing 3 x manslaughter charges. You will probably say that it is the fault of the police that those people died but anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that he made the decision to run and is ultimately responsible for the carnage.

:bash:

[Sycophant]

For example, me alone on the motorway at approx 10pm at 122kph = $170 fine and 30 (i think) demerits. Cop was hiding on an on-ramp which is why i didn't see him.

Speed limits exist for a reason. They are generally considered to be the best speed for the majority of drivers in the majority of conditions. Sometimes it's probably safe to go faster, sometimes, slower might be a good idea.

The fact that the cop was not visible doesn't change the fact you were not adhering to the rules which you agreed to abide. You know the speed limit, and you can break it, but you know the consequences, you can't complain that it's unfair because someone was hiding.


On a bike I have never stopped for them and I never will.
NZ is turning into a police state.

I agree with Spud on this one - that is moronic. You basically become a missile just waiting for some unsuspecting driver to get in your way. You know how drivers often don't see motorbikes? I bet that applies double when they are doing 120 in a 50 zone, or whatever speed you'd be going to get away.

[Marmoot]

Erm, yeah. Good one.

While I (strongly) do not agree with the government (LTSA) view on speed and their overzealous enforcement (it does seem to have 'money and numbers' motivation behind it), I do admit there is a big problem with NZ roads and driving ability in general.

Speed limit is there to cater for the lowest common denominator (yeah, like it or not....) and therefore it needs to try to safe that stupid asian lady driving a 81 mazda in case she talks to her cell phone too much and hit an oncoming car.

So, heck, what can we say? Nothing, I guess......Complaining about this is starting to feel like talking to a wall to me........

[Racer X]

.... No matter how cool you think you are or how flash a rider you may be, if you run from the police at high speed you are just plain dumb!!
....


Actually if you run from the police at LOW speed you are just plain dumb. :D



On a bike I have never stopped and I never will


This may have sounded worse than it really is - I'm not really that much of a reckless rider and would probably stop if it was in town or could endanger people other than me. Just like most people on this forum, I have run only a few times - when the stakes were pretty high - like jail.

I'm not gonna argue with you (spud & sychophant) - youre probably the kind of people who think speed cameras actually save lives :rolleyes:

[Sycophant]

youre probably the kind of people who think speed cameras actually save lives

They probably have on occasion. Though I doubt it's the general rule - that said, I wouldn't complain if I got a ticket. Like I said, I know the rules, and will (and do) accept the penalty if I break them.

Speed limits are a tricky thing, you might well be able to cope with a higher rate of speed than some people, but we can't have everyone allowed to drive as fast as they think they can, because, as is often proved, a lot of them can't actually drive as fast as they think they can. They end up killing themselves and other people. Regardless of what you might think, the LTSA is right, speed does kill.

Anyway, I am off. Merry Christmas!

[spudchucka]

All thats required is a little common sense. People who think its their god given right to travel at whatever speed they like on whatever road they feel like are just a public menace, pure and simple.

If you want to open your bike up then do it at a track day or at least try and be discrete about it. If you speed on motorways or in heavily populated areas expect to get caught and don't moan about it, because you knew the risks beforehand. Everyone knows these places are havily policed.

As far as speed cameras go, I have no sympathy for anyone getting caught by these things. They are so easily spotted if you get caught by one you are obviously driving / riding in a daze.

Merry Christmas.
:wavey:

[sAsLEX]

Speed cameras in general piss me off :angry2:

came down from auckland on tues to New Plymouth, only speed camera i saw was on the bypass from Otrohonga to Ngrawahia (excuse spelling). He/she was on the the only straight strech of road for about 45 mins, the straight just south of Ngrawahia, just sitting in some bushes at the end of the straight trying to catch those who creep over the limit while passing :mad: on a road that has no formed passing lanes and which trucks frequent going 90+ making a sub 100 pass impossible!

Aren't trucks meant to be restricted to 80?? I have yet to see one of them pulled over even though speed all the time!!

[Firefight]

Speed cameras in general piss me off :angry2:



Aren't trucks meant to be restricted to 80?? I have yet to see one of them pulled over even though speed all the time!!


Truck & Draw bar trailer 80kms on open road

Artic Unit 90kms on open road

Not sure of the policy HP use, but CVIU cop told me as long as it's not more than 110kms, he won't pull a truck over for speeding, in open road enviroment.


firefight.

[James Deuce]

Truck & Draw bar trailer 80kms on open road

Artic Unit 90kms on open road

Not sure of the policy HP use, but CVIU cop told me as long as it's not more than 110kms, he won't pull a truck over for speeding, in open road enviroment.


firefight.

Can kind of understand why. Truckies are professional drivers and they typically have millions of kilometres between even minor accidents.

A lot of car drivers on the other hand spend the majority of their time (me included) in commuter traffic and often misinterpret open road conditions.

Bikers tend to be average or slightly above average when in control of a vehicle because riding a bike teaches some survival skills that most car drivers never consider, as well as better mechanical sympathy and vehicle operator skills.

Jim2

[Marmoot]

Why the heck don't they differentiate the speed for different lanes in passing lanes? Like 100kph for left lane and 120 for right, or 80 vs 100? That would make passing a lot easier and safer!!!! :brick:

(I am one of those caught passing simply coz the car I was passing decided to speed up alongside me)

[sAsLEX]

you have just described one of the more dangerous creatures on the road. They travel at between 60 and 80 on roads that are impossible to pass on, then as soon as the road straightens or a passing lane opens they speed up :angry2:

these are the sort of people the cops should be targeting as they cause more dangerous incidents on the road than those who creep over the speed limit :brick:

[wkid_one]

Can kind of understand why. Truckies are professional drivers and they typically have millions of kilometres between even minor accidents.


Disagree - how many roll overs have occurred recently. Truck limits are there given the weights (44 Tonne) that they can the the propensity for the vehicle to jackknife.

On the basis of that argument we should all get to go quicker the longer we have driven for????

The truck drivers have a speed limit and should be policed the same as everyone else especially given the potential damage their vehicles can do IF involved in an accident.

What you do forget to cover tho is the police now have mobile mechanics that COF trucks on the side of the road (regardless of when the last COF was done) and will sticker them off the road. Also - they are checked to make sure that they are not over tare weight and that the driver hasn't been driving too long.

None of this happens to car drivers tho?

[SPman]

Can kind of understand why. Truckies are professional drivers and they typically have millions of kilometres between even minor accidents.

Jim2

Professional! Maybe 1 in 10! Travelling between New Plymouth and Auckland a lot, a few yrs ago, and the 4 fatals I saw all involved truck/trailer/artics and cars, including 1 with mother and kids under the trailer and burning! Not Nice. Had a T&T pull over breifly just after the tunnel in the Awakino gorge (13 vehicles behind at that time) let 1 pass then pull straight back onto the road nearly wiping the 2nd car alongside him into the far side ditch! T&T's at 130 k on the only bits of road were its possible to pass - fuck the queues of traffic behind! I found the behaviour of most truck drivers no better than most car drivers - except they had 42 tonnes to cause havoc with, not 2! Corteous, considerate, professional behaviour by truck drivers, is as big a myth generally, as a clean green NZ!
Oops
:angry2:

[What?]

Disagree - how many roll overs have occurred recently. Truck limits are there given the weights (44 Tonne) that they can the the propensity for the vehicle to jackknife.

On the basis of that argument we should all get to go quicker the longer we have driven for????

The truck drivers have a speed limit and should be policed the same as everyone else especially given the potential damage their vehicles can do IF involved in an accident.

What you do forget to cover tho is the police now have mobile mechanics that COF trucks on the side of the road (regardless of when the last COF was done) and will sticker them off the road. Also - they are checked to make sure that they are not over tare weight and that the driver hasn't been driving too long.

None of this happens to car drivers tho?

Dan, you are right and wrong in the same breath.
You have to look at truck incidents versus mileage travelled and compare to same for cars. Sure, there have been a few trucks roll lateley, but in proportion to the number on the roads and the distances travelled, those incidents fade a little in their significance.
The cops do not issue C's OF. They do inspections, and can issue unroadworthy stickers. They are also doing this to cars. Well, OK, boy-racer cars. And they check Gross weight.

And you are right - we could not possibly have a system where more experienced drivers are allowed to travel faster than others. Except when you are talking about bikes, when we have exactly that: learners are restricted to a lower speed than other highway users. :brick: :brick:

Aaaah, fuggit. Merry christmas. :beer:

[James Deuce]

Thanks What? That's what I meant :)

Jim2

[marty]

Originally Posted by Jim2
Can kind of understand why. Truckies are professional drivers and they typically have millions of kilometres between even minor accidents.

Jim2


exactly why they should know better and 1. obey the rules, 2. be considerate. most of them are - i have had almost no trouble with truckies pulling over or waving me past

[Jackrat]

I worked with truckies as a pilot driver, plus Iv,e done a hell of a lot of kms behind the wheel myself,They are no different than anybody else.Some of them are very good at what they do an some of them a right clowns.One thing I do know is that driving trucks full time you get to see some really stupid shit from the general public.Some things most folk never realise is when it looks like you are passing on a blind bend or some other such thing,is that you are in radio contact with another truck coming the other way and being told the coast is clear.This also applys to cops,Its no big secret where they are either.You could be better off puting a CB or VHF on your bike rather than a radar detector.At lest for the highway anyway.

[spudchucka]

.You could be better off puting a CB or VHF on your bike rather than a radar detector.At lest for the highway anyway.

Don't ever waste your money on a radar detector, the things are next to useless if the cop is using the hawk / stalker correctly. :Police:

[mangell6]

Checkout www.radar.co.nz Makes very interesting reading.

I think everyone should go out and buy a radar jammer :lol:

[James Deuce]

Checkout www.radar.co.nz Makes very interesting reading.

I think everyone should go out and buy a radar jammer :lol:

And riding gear that is the same colour/light frequency as the laser guns so that we absorb the laser light instead of reflecting it.

[Jackrat]

And riding gear that is the same colour/light frequency as the laser guns so that we absorb the laser light instead of reflecting it.
How about a couple of liters of stealh fighter paint.
My younger brother has a jammer as well as detector,He tells me when his detector goes off he hits the jammer,cuts his speed an then turns it off again.
He hasn,t had a ticket for a while,which is really saying something for him as he goes every where at warp speed.I would go an buy both myself but the price is a bit off putting.Still very interesting anyway.

[wkid_one]

The cops do not issue C's OF. They do inspections, and can issue unroadworthy stickers. They are also doing this to cars. Well, OK, boy-racer cars. And they check Gross weight.


Actually I worded that incorrectly - VTNZ has issued mechanics out to the Weigh Stations whereby they DO do COF inspections on the side of the road along side the COPS. Believe me - I have had to finance clients who have had to do emergency work to their trucks as a result of this.

You can now pass you COF inspection in the morning, and then be failed at a weigh station by the Mobile Inspection Team - I know of 2 of my clients that have had this occur (at Ohakea).

HOWEVER: I am not saying truck drivers have more accidents - I am saying the limit is there for THEIR OWN SAFETY. Truck rollovers, jack-knifes, etc often occur because the truck is travelling faster than the limit - and you must concede NZ roads are not conducive to a truck travelling at 100kph+.

You only have to travel down the middle of the island at night to see the idiot truck drivers bouncing home racing one another.

[What?]

VTNZ has issued mechanics out to the Weigh Stations.....
...You can now pass you COF inspection in the morning, and then be failed at a weigh station by the Mobile Inspection Team
You'd be stretching a point to call some of those monkeys mechanics!
Shows just how much a CoF or WoF is really worth, doesn't it? Last time I took my Holden to VTNZ, they told me the lower front suspension joints (?) were buggered. Took it into the fix-it shop where I was informed that there was nothing wrong with any suspension parts, but the steering rack did need re-bushing. Big difference... I have a few other testing station tales, too. I don't go to them any more - reckon their expertise could actually be dangerous.

Couldn't agree more about truckies at night. Some are really good, courteous and sensible, but it seems the majority are cowboys.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well all I can say is don't speed stupidly, but the cops do pull people over for when they speed to overtake.

-Indy

[Lou Girardin]

Tests in the States showed that the hardest vehicle to give a laser reading on was a black TransAm. Because it has hidden headlights (no exposed reflectors), black absorbs infrared light and they don't have to have front plates in the States. Which doesn't help us as bikes have exposed headlights, having your light on high beam helps a bit because the infrared component does slow the laser lock-on.
The thought occurs to me, if we had free access to hand guns in NZ. Maybe the cops wouldn't be so keen to use shoulder mounted laser guns while hidden in bushes.
(I thought it was someone about to shoot me , your honour!)
Lou

[Marmoot]

Maybe you can sue them for eye defects.
Laser can ruin eye due to their intensity.

[wkid_one]

Interesting isn't it - I had laser surgery to fix my eye sight...

Now - maybe if Ventura could put out a light protector that is also Laser (IR)Absorbing???? Kill two birds with one stone wud din nit.

[k14]

Yeah, but then it would stop your headlights light aswell.

The light from the laser gun and headlights are virtually the same, apart from different wavelength/frequencies. The reason i thought that the headlights cause some disturbance to the laser is that the waves add/subtract together from superposition causeing a completly different wave to be sent back to the gun. Or is it something else?

[Lou Girardin]

My, limited, understanding of laser gun technology makes me think that there is enough infrared light in a headlight at the guns frequency to slow the processing of the return signal. This would make the old style pre-halogen lights even more effective. Unless you value being able to see at night, that is.
Lou

[BlueR1]

If you really believe that the police should never speed then I guess you will accept them driving at 50 kph while your daughter is getting raped, your house done over, your car / bike stolen.
IMHO

They wont attend your daughter getting raped, your house getting done over or your car being stolen anyway because they are all too busy hiding in bushes on the side of the road and giving people tickets for doing 110km/hr on straight roads and passing lanes Oh but its saftey remember, then I bet everyone of them hops in their private car and drives at 110kms/hr.... Bloody Hypocrits!

[Lou Girardin]

That sounds like the comment of someone who has experienced the feral cops in Northland.
I saw 4 revenue men between Moerewa and Kaio on one trip.
Lou

[spudchucka]

They wont attend your daughter getting raped, your house getting done over or your car being stolen anyway because they are all too busy hiding in bushes on the side of the road and giving people tickets for doing 110km/hr on straight roads and passing lanes Oh but its saftey remember, then I bet everyone of them hops in their private car and drives at 110kms/hr.... Bloody Hypocrits!

You have obviously had a big feed of sour grapes recently. Get over it!
:baby: :baby: :baby:

[spudchucka]

I know some people have gotten pissed off over some of my comments in this thread, bottom line is I don't give a stuff. I get sick to death of some attitudes in this country and the national obsession of whinging about police is one of the most tiresome. Heres something I read recently on another forum. Think about it next time you want to have a whine about the cops.


THE GREAT POLICE OFFICER

Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me.
I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true . . . I can never figure you out.

From birth you teach your children that I'm the bogeyman, then you're shocked when they identify with my traditional enemy . . . the criminal!

You accuse me of coddling criminals . . . until I catch your kids doing wrong.

You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day, but point me out as a loafer for having one cup. You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles.

You raise hell with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you. You know all the traffic laws . . . but you've never gotten a single ticket you deserve.

You shout "foul" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than ten seconds to respond to your complaint.

You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but call it police brutality if I strike back. You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth or your doctor how to take out an appendix, yet your always willing give me pointers on the law.

You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

You yell something's got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved.

You have no use for me at all, but of course it's OK if I change a flat for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the patrol car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.

So, Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my buddies.

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me . . . the lousy cop!

[BlueR1]

You have obviously had a big feed of sour grapes recently. Get over it!
:baby: :baby: :baby:

Spudchucka wrong actually, I have never had a speeding ticket in my life, mainly because I dont make a habit of speeding in places where the cops sit, and why dont they sit there? because they wouldnt make enough revenue on the back roads, they prefer to hide where they can rob as much money off the public as possible, secondly the only time where I have been unlucky enuff to get zapped ive run, holden versus R1 ...... Game over :blah:

[BlueR1]

That sounds like the comment of someone who has experienced the feral cops in Northland.
I saw 4 revenue men between Moerewa and Kaio on one trip.
Lou

Yeah Kerikeri is full of them, I guess most of them are just doing their jobs, but you always get the odd one who is on a power trip and thinks he is telling off a naughty school kid, the annoying part is I know someone who has had their house broken in only to have a cop turn up 3 days later when they are all down the road sitting along passing lanes!!!!!!! I think the police need to get traffic offences into perspective, then again i guess you dont get $200 6 times an hour for attending break ins, its far less profitable. :no:

[XRNR]

I know some people have gotten pissed off over some of my comments...

THE GREAT POLICE OFFICER

Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me....

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me . . . the lousy cop!

Yeah, nobody will ever convince the other they are wrong! You do your job because you believe in what you do. We see the effects of Govt policy & easy revenue. I preferred the old system of Traffic Cops & Police. (At that time I never had a gripe with the Police, never thought anything of overtaking them with their blues flashing going somewhere either. But I never ever passed a black & white ;) ).

I believe its in the Govt interests to keep not-so-serious (attending mums & dads burglaries etc) crime figures up a bit. Makes for something to have election campaigns on, year after year after year.... And in the Police Dept interests too, so as to have reasons to get the same or increased budgets from treasury.

But what I don't understand is the apparent willingness of Mr Plod to play along with this zero tolerance speed thing! What are your incentives to go out and have all these "contacts per hour". Are you on a monetary Bonus, or the reverse, you will find your career progression hampered? Or do all the front liners truly believe what they do is right (I don't think so). If the majority of you ignored your superiors, what are they going to do, Sack You!

like anything, a mass revolt, or lack commitment to this current policy from the guys on the ground would see it fade away. If Police are serious about reducing or preventing crime, it can be done by the people on the floor. Concentrate on the serious speeders or slowsters, or traffic violators. This would free up more time for other types of crime reduction, or public interaction like walking around communities getting to know the people who live in them (helps get their buy-in & break down the barriers).


So.. I don't see hiding behind, "We only do what the government told us to do" is a valid reason for persecuting mild speeders. Just because people belong to a big organisation doesn't mean they are exempt from the ability to think. (whether we like it or not, speeding citizens is a BIG revenue earner for the Govt).
(and Yes I do speed, and I don't think that, just because I own a motorbike or a fast car I should have the right too I just do it knowing I am doing wrong. I always felt, fair cop, when caught. But what I see now is that the very people who used to harp on about the way I drive are clocking up the tickets faster than me. And oh how they squeal!, when they get done for 61 in 50km zone etc. They are the Mums and Dad's & Grandparents of this country. I know very few people who haven't been done speeding in the last 3-5yrs (maybe that's just because I live in Auckland))


I don't see the Govt bringing in Policing policy's aimed at reducing focus on homicide solving or P, cracking so they can have a zero tolerance policy on shop lifting.

No I don't know what its like to do your job, I am sure a lot of the time its shit But I didn't choose to be a cop, I could have.

As for you, Enjoy yourself and Just get back to what you came here for, talking motorbikes and meeting up with people to go on rides with. Accept that we are a bunch of f*****g moaners that don't like people popping our balloon, SPEED.

Don't feel you have to defend the Police to everyone who makes a remark about them, we all will.

Chill out like Marty.

[spudchucka]

XRNR

I'm not necessarily supporting the so called "policy" of zero tolerance to speed. I firmly believe that the interpretation of speed that is considered to be dangerous should be up to individual officers on patrol. They are the ones on the spot that can take in all of the factors. A zero tolerance policy takes away any officer discretion, which in my opinion a negative thing.

What pisses me off when I read threads like this one is the mindless attitudes and belief that cops simply gather revinue for the Govt, don't give a stuff about "real crime" and blah blah blah about the same old worn out crap arguements that the cops only care about getting their "quota" in order to secure their Xmas bonus or whatever.

It really is pathetic.

I'm happy to discuss bikes and I thought thats what this forum was about. However since I've been visiting here there have been more threads about doing the runner, the benefits of radar detectors, all cops are arseholes etc etc etc than interesting disscussion re motorcycles.

End of rant!

[wkid_one]

This looks awfully familiar to a post I did ('Suggestion') with exactly the same result:o

I must still concur with Spud in that every thread posted here seems to turn in to a moan about cops/the establishment etc.....justifed, but illdirected.

At the end of the day - the police a playing to the whistle. Half my old college friends are now :Police: (of varying roles) - and the job isn't that easy. It is funny how well received a Police person is when you are in trouble - yet when you have done something wrong they are the worst kind of human.

Having been out on plenty of patrols - you get to see this is person - how quick you can go from Saviour to :devil2:and back again depending on the nature of the call.

You will find most of the police force love their job (and not for the power tripping reasons you think)........those on the coal face don't set the 'zero tolerance' mandates or the quotas etc - but they sure as hell have to perform to them.

Remember - You CHOOSE to speed......it isn't a right. We all know what the limit is (yes yes, it may be too low for a m'bike).

Spare a thought for the :doctor:, Fireman and :Police: that have to clean you up afterwards. LIke the guy who died coming back from Paeroa in the head on. Found half of him on the bike - the rest over the back of the car......'but yes officer - my bike could handle that speed'.

Don't whinge about the cops - whinge about those who set the rules - and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Try writing a letter (like Lou G), petition your MP etc.....

There are 600 members on here now - that is one hell of a petition if people on here acted.

As too the threads about running, speeding and radar detectors - THAT IS MOTORCYCLING. That is what bikes are about. Avoiding speeding tickets, pulling monos at 150kph....this is general motorcycle talk. Whilst I will agree with Spud re the cops - I won't about the topics of the threads. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Now :Playnice:

[BlueR1]

Well put Wkid one ........... especially the last paragraph hahaha :D

[Lou Girardin]

Sorry spudchucker, the Police have earned all the vilification they get. It hasn't always been this way, these posts are a small part of a general disatisfaction with our Police force. Every Police force that has put revenue before service to the public has found the same loss of public respect.
Lou

[wkid_one]

Sorry spudchucker, the Police have earned all the vilification they get. It hasn't always been this way, these posts are a small part of a general disatisfaction with our Police force. Every Police force that has put revenue before service to the public has found the same loss of public respect.
LouYes - Lou but I think Spud's point is that this isn't the individual Police Officers fault - they have little say in the focus/direction/strategy and ethos of the company - merely are there as means to the ends. (IF THIS ISN'T SPUDS INTENTION - DISREGARD THE REMAINDER OF THIS POST :2thumbsup :2thumbsup )

The Police, much like any other (quasi) government agency is a political tool as much as a social one. Their directives are the creation of not just police management, but social policy and government as a whole.

To vilify the officer for 'doing his job' - is shooting the messenger. How many of us do things in our jobs because it is required of us - yet if we had a choice - wouldn't do them? :ar15:

I have had a number of tickets in recent times - and have NOTHING BUT GOOD THINGS to say about the police officers who issued them.......but as to the strategy that is set of them I have evil thoughts.:shutup:

Yes - I have arguments with trying to run social services at a profit. In my mind social services should be attempted to be run efficiently - but not at a profit - this isn't what they are there to do. Look at the health sector for example. As for the Police Officer - if you had your boss, and his boss and his boss' boss breathing down your neck saying shape up or ship out.....many would do the same thing. :sly:

Just remember - the police officer is JUST DOING THE JOB S/HE IS PAID TO DO.....they don't determine the revenue and budgetary targets, they don't set the road toll goals, they don't set the long term strategy.....they are only trying to put food on the table for their family. :hug:

I whole-heartedly agree with the comments on the board - other than the fact we sometimes aim them at the officers and not the system as a whole

[spudchucka]

Yes - Lou but I think Spud's point is that this isn't the individual Police Officers fault - they have little say in the focus/direction/strategy and ethos of the company - merely are there as means to the ends. (IF THIS ISN'T SPUDS INTENTION - DISREGARD THE REMAINDER OF THIS POST :2thumbsup :2thumbsup )

Thats pretty much it other than the general anti police vibe that exists in these threads, it just generally pisses me off.

The reason being that so often the people slagging off at the coppers have no real understanding of what the truth actually is regarding operational policy or day to day policing. Peoples opinions are often based on the BS urban legends relating to police and the law and seldom on actual experience. I'm not saying thats the case with anyone here because I've no idea what anyone's experience is. Everyone has an opinion be it negative or positive and they are of course entitled to their opinion. But seldom have I ever met anyone who can face to face justify their shitty attitude by their own experience. Its usually because a mate of a mate or dear old Uncle Fred had some experience with a cop who was a real dickhead.

Either that or people just direct their anger at the cops when in reality they are just enforcing the laws passed in parliament. This is a short sighted, narrow minded attitude that achieves nothing.

Admitedly there are cops who are power hungry, ignorant, arogant and just plain arseholes. If you come across one like that complain to the district commander, what good does it do to bleat on about it on a bloddy internet forum??

If people are really so angry about the way NZ is policed why aren't they marching on parliament demanding change??

Because its easier to just whinge about it and point the finger of blame at someone else!

:calm: :calm: :calm: :calm:

[James Deuce]

I have a friend who is a Police Inspector, a REALLY nice guy, and he gets just as mad, if not more so about zero tolerance for issues that generally affect otherwise law-abiding citizens. He is vocal within the organisation as well, so he tends to get posted to places like the Solomons.

Yes the Police could mount a low level internal rebbelion. But like the rest of us they have bills/kids/mortgages. Bit hard to pay for those things when you have no job, or are suspended without pay. They are people too. They don't like rude people. The reverse is true too. I am a person and I don't like rude cops. Like the one that pulled me up on Christmas day. The problem is there are a myriad of cultural and political messages in a cop being rude to a "normal" citizen. Some Highway Patrol guys would do well to learn that.

In regard to confidence in the Police I have none. I've been burgled three times and the earliest Police have turned up to one was 4 days after the event. Each time you are asked not to touch the crime scene, but if it's going to be 4 days of leaving broken doors, locks , and windows and trying to exist in the mess that most burglars create well I'm just not gonna. I've also had three injury accidents and despite being called the police didn't turn up to any. Which created a problem for the Ambulance officers when the truck driver who hit me (didn't see me) claimed there was nothing wrong with me (broken wrist and concussion) as he was on probabtion and would lose his job. He started to intervene when they tried to load me into the Ambulance.

If your experience of an organisation is largely negative or unhelpful then that tends to affect how you interact with their staff members or how much respect you accord that organisation. It's all very well to defend the Police organisation in general and make claims about the attitudes of the individuals that make up that organisation being largely positive, but when they fail to help the people they are paid to protect on a regular basis and fail to render assistance when requested you have to wonder.

Even after that I think we would all do well to remember that a cop is a person first and a little courtesy can go a long way with anyone.

[wkid_one]

Wow - something is really wrong with me....not only did I get the gist of Spud's thread - Jim2 mirrored my sentiments.

Now if you all excuse me - I am going to find a quiet room somewhere and practise my writing of controversial posts - I seem to be out of touch

Dan

[sAsLEX]

Just a point I think that needs clarifying. The cops/government can be arseholes and the following two cases shoud illustrate this point, but in general I agree with Wikd_one/spudchucka and the point of the messanger.

Case 1: A young male, 20 full license driving on farms since age 5, had his car impounded as while doing a U-turn in wet conditions his inside wheel momentarily lost traction. The cops using the new boy racer law then impounded the car due to his previous infringements.

The following day his mother answers the door to see the same cop, he had come to say that it was a mistake for him to issue the ticket, and that the car could be picked up from the impound yard on monday.

Well the impound yard knew nothing of this, and after much running around they eventually got the car after having to pay the impound fees.

Why did he have to pay?? the cop admitted he was in the wrong he still had to pay and was without a car for a weekend.

Case 2: Another young male, 24 full license, was charged with something under the new boy racer law, he thought it was dubious so went through the process and got the charges dissmissed. This would have been ok but in the process he was given demerit points, enough to cause him to lose his license.

Now after the charge was thrown out he thought he would get his demerit points back, since they were given for a offence that he was no longer being charged for, he was in all accounts innocent, but the demerit points remained
:angry2:

He then had to get a temp license for work purposes at roughly $1000, and since this is peak contracting season he did not have the time to contest the demerit points, his father then rang the regional commander who instructed him to ring LTSA, who in all their brillance could only tell him to " check the road code" and when questioned further hung up on him. :angry2: .



How can the police do this?? having to pay for something that you did not do , or being punished for a crime you did not commit??? You have to wonder why people are starting to run :stupid:

Can someone clarify what the law is regarding getting Demerit points returned after the ticket that contained them is dissmissed??

[Coldkiwi]

Don't ever waste your money on a radar detector, the things are next to useless if the cop is using the hawk / stalker correctly. :Police:
not true... they also tell you if that old holden you just passed is likely to turn around and go after you and whether or not you should perhaps take that into account when the next straight appears and your fingers start to itch!! (personal experience)

man.. I don't think i've seen that many marathon posts on after the other (couldn't be arsed reading them, sorry fellas) on any other topic on this site. :sleep:

[spudchucka]

Wow - something is really wrong with me....not only did I get the gist of Spud's thread - Jim2 mirrored my sentiments.

Now if you all excuse me - I am going to find a quiet room somewhere and practise my writing of controversial posts - I seem to be out of touch

Dan

I think you are doing fine, after all you are ahead of me in the "most unreputable" stakes.

Cheers

[Hitcher]

There has been a huge outpouring of angst and ink on this subject, that's for sure...
:brick:

[spudchucka]

Just a point I think that needs clarifying. The cops/government can be arseholes and the following two cases shoud illustrate this point, but in general I agree with Wikd_one/spudchucka and the point of the messanger.

Case 1: A young male, 20 full license driving on farms since age 5, had his car impounded as while doing a U-turn in wet conditions his inside wheel momentarily lost traction. The cops using the new boy racer law then impounded the car due to his previous infringements.

The following day his mother answers the door to see the same cop, he had come to say that it was a mistake for him to issue the ticket, and that the car could be picked up from the impound yard on monday.

Well the impound yard knew nothing of this, and after much running around they eventually got the car after having to pay the impound fees.

Why did he have to pay?? the cop admitted he was in the wrong he still had to pay and was without a car for a weekend.

Case 2: Another young male, 24 full license, was charged with something under the new boy racer law, he thought it was dubious so went through the process and got the charges dissmissed. This would have been ok but in the process he was given demerit points, enough to cause him to lose his license.

Now after the charge was thrown out he thought he would get his demerit points back, since they were given for a offence that he was no longer being charged for, he was in all accounts innocent, but the demerit points remained
:angry2:

He then had to get a temp license for work purposes at roughly $1000, and since this is peak contracting season he did not have the time to contest the demerit points, his father then rang the regional commander who instructed him to ring LTSA, who in all their brillance could only tell him to " check the road code" and when questioned further hung up on him. :angry2: .



How can the police do this?? having to pay for something that you did not do , or being punished for a crime you did not commit??? You have to wonder why people are starting to run :stupid:

Can someone clarify what the law is regarding getting Demerit points returned after the ticket that contained them is dissmissed??

Regarding case 1, on the face of it the cop was wrong because the loss of traction has to be "sustained". The way you describe this incident does not sound like it could be considered in that way, hence the cops embaressing visit to the family home. As far as having to pay for the impound storage, why don't you send a bill to the local police district manager??

Regarding case 2, sorry I don't know. Without knowing all the facts its hard to offer any advice. The only suggestion I have would be to follow it up with the local police, court or look up the Ph: for the Infringement Bureau, (theres an 0800 number).

As for the Boy Racer Act, whenever there is new legislation introduced there will be a sort of refing period as cases are put before the Court and decissions are handed down one way or the other. This then builds up the Case Law relevant to the legislation and will in turn have an effect on how the legislation is interpreted and applied.

Hope that helps

[wkid_one]

but in general I agree with Wikd_one
??
Can people stop doing this please - I am starting to become agitated and feel I may lose my place on the most disreputable poster.....this rampant agreement with my posts is disconcerting as I pride myself on my unique view of the world and those in it.....where is my identity if people continue to agree with me.....argggggggggggggggggggggg :beer: :beer:

[XRNR]

I am starting to become agitated and feel I may lose my place on the most disreputable poster.....

Don't worry mate, I'll keep voting for you.


Spud! if your heading north (AK way) let me know so I can come for a ride. I think I would feel safe around you!

[sAsLEX]

We can always use the reputation button to keep wikd_one happy :whistle:

[wkid_one]

Ahhhh - the blissful sound of discontent

[Lou Girardin]

All I can say, spudchucker. Is that if everyone said nothing in oppposition to the traffic nazis, we would now have a 50mgm alcohol limit, a 5km/h speed tolerance and hidden speed cameras with demerit points. I'll continue to oppose these morons in every media avenue I can.
Lou

[georgedubyabush]

Heard on the Radio the other day that in NZ, per head of population, you are 5 times more likely to be issued a speeding ticket than in the UK.

A bit meaningless though, needs to be per kms driven or something instead of per head of population as EVERYONE drives in NZ.

[wkid_one]

What is wrong with a 50mgm limit anyway? I don't see any problem with this at all.....

Now the rest may be entirely irrelevant to this post - but is part of the research I am doing at the mo:

This whole speeding thing is interesting. With all the boy racers on the road in low profile tyres and larger rims - speedo calibration must be a large issue. Whilst I know they have charts to ensure the rotational diameter of the tyres remain the same - any departure from the Manu Specs is going to alter the speedo reading.

Also - I am yet to see or hear of a speedo reading UNDER the actual speed being travelled - so this so-called tolerance of 10kph over the limit is a falsity anyway??? Why have a tolerance of 10kph ABOVE the limit - when most speedos are reading OVER the actual speed being travelled. This then means Mr Joe Average who gets pinged doing 61kph in a 50zone may in fact have been travelling at an indicated 65 or so.

Would the tolerance not be better as 10% of the posted speed - not 10kph?? Thereby meaning you could get pinged at 56kph in a 50, 78 in a 70 and 111 in a 100 zone??

This makes more sense to me anyway - surely travelling 60kph in a 50 zone is more dangerous than 110 in a 100? Esp with Kids etc

I have attached an interesting article for those who haven't read it 'Tolerances'. I would summarise the key points but it would mean you wouldn't read it. You will tho see that whilst contentious as revenue earners, speed cameras have resulted in a reduction in speeds (both 85th percentile and mean)

Don't discount lower tolerances (law of dimishing returns rears its head here)

The LTSA's current priorities are as follows

The strategy’s key priority areas for action involve:



engineering safer roads
reducing speed
combating drink–driving
dealing with serious offenders
encouraging the use of safety belts
improving safety for pedestrians and cyclists
improving the vehicle fleet
new and better targeted education initiatives.
Here is the link outlining their details on each point http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/strategy-2010/strategy-priorities.html

However - we must also remember - that with tolerances - we develop an 'common law' speed limit to match the Actual Speed + Tolerance. A tolerance isn't a right or permission to speed.

There is another article regarding NZ's Speeding Enforcement Policy. This dispells some myths - equipment need only be calibrated once per 12 months, vehicles within 250m of a speed change shouldn't be targetted, NO RULES ARE ABSOLUTE - OFFICER HAS DISCRETION.

I have a wealth of other papers and crap....this is a mere portion for those who are interested. The single most glaring gap in all this information - is ACCOUNTABILITY FOR SLOW DRIVERS. There is little if any information about the impact of slow drivers.....why?? because they seldom have an accident - yet - can attribute to them.

[wkid_one]

Oh - here is the guide for Certification of Approved Vehicle Surveillance Equipment

ANd if you want to read the Entire Police Strategy for 2006 - here is the link http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2002/strategicplan/

Also - I have attached the 2001-2002 traffic offense stats link http://www.police.govt.nz/service/statistics/2003/stats-traffic-2001-2002.xls

[spudchucka]

All I can say, spudchucker. Is that if everyone said nothing in oppposition to the traffic nazis, we would now have a 50mgm alcohol limit, a 5km/h speed tolerance and hidden speed cameras with demerit points. I'll continue to oppose these morons in every media avenue I can.
Lou

Other than the alcohol limit, I would support you in opposing the changes you mention. Unfortuneately, given time and the never ending apethy of the NZ voter, it will become a reality before we know it.

[spudchucka]

WKID

Some interesting stats there. I can't believe that there are still 500 000 drivers a year getting caught by speed cameras. People must drive with their eyes shut!!! No wonder the Govt would like to lower the tolerance, even I'll accept that is revinue gathering. But when there is such an abundance of people willingly falling into their trap, why would you blame them.

I used to be a rep and would travell 70 - 90 000 km per year all over the Nth Islnd and the top of the South. I only got caught once when the cameras first came out, once I figured out what they look like and where they put them I never got caught again. Its really beyond me how people get pingged by them!!! :confused: :confused:

[SPman]

Also - I am yet to see or hear of a speedo reading UNDER the actual speed being travelled
My brother was done for 116k, - Nissan van - when his speedo was reading 105 - got his speedo recalibrated (cost $70) - the speedo was under reading, sent in the calibration report and they waived the ticket.

[sAsLEX]

It would be interesting to see the stats of where speed cameras catch their extremely dangerous criminals!! My bet most would be on straight wide roads, generally at the end of a passing lane or on the only places to pass for miles around :mad: :angry2:

P.s for those of you who frequent the new waikato expressway, the widest safest road I have driven on, watch out when going through/under any of the overpasses. They have started policing this very dangerous *cough sarcasm cough* stretch of road quite heavily !! Last time through had an HP hiding backside of an overpass pinging with an undercover further up to do the mopping up!!

P.p.s and the speed camera that now finds it way on to the hamilton bypass quite often only encourage more dangerous passing in other places :angry2:

[What?]

- I am yet to see or hear of a speedo reading UNDER the actual speed
My ute speedo tells lies on the dangerous side. 100K reading is 107K in reality (checked by a friendly cop, 3 passes, all the same reading)