Moaning Cafe Owners [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

ynot slow

28th October 2011, 06:50

Yep feel sorry for workers who lose out as well,classic example is the cafe by the bridge in Balance,the access to the Manawatu gorge has been cut and that means few customers,they have right to moan,Aucklanders not much.
And will we here the owners saying they had insurance cover for interuption and all ok,or will the cafes just hit suppliers,lines company etc for compensation,in these times a good insurance broker is a must for business' today,earthquakes prove that.

Maha

28th October 2011, 06:52

Alot of business are running on a knife edge at the moment. Few days lost takings can be fatal. Wages could not be paid.

If they have interruption insurance payouts could take to long. Welcome to business in the new century. :facepalm:

If they have no contingency plan for an event such as this then ...well bugger really...

IE: BK aint complaining.
Sure, much bigger company and thier loss must be massive, but I bet they have the patty's covered.

willytheekid

28th October 2011, 07:14

allycatz

28th October 2011, 09:41

oneofsix

28th October 2011, 09:45

Maha

28th October 2011, 10:06

Don't know about up your way, but Labour Day down here we were hard pressed to find cafes open because of them not wanting to pay extra wages and lieu days. I would of thought they would of made a lot more business on a public holiday.

So they are tight as well?..
Theres a small cafe up this way for sale at the moment..
Its more of a 'pick and go' cafe at Matakana.
There are a few seats outside if you must....

It has a turnover of $13K pw....
I know there a thousands out there that are worse off than the affected Cafe's around the place, and will be for alot longer..long after the gas is restored.
Whats wrong with boiling the jug?

Usarka

28th October 2011, 10:12

Theres a small cafe up this way for sale at the moment..

It has a turnover of $13K pw....

Apple turnover? That must be some good arsed pastry.

Maha

28th October 2011, 10:18

Apple turnover? That must be some good arsed pastry.

They do the meanest Belgium Biscuit....$3 I think it is for one small biscuit.
About $8 for a coffee/biscuit.

ckai

28th October 2011, 10:48

I think it's kinda dumb in this day and age when we have only one supply line going to the "biggest economy" in the country and apparently it's what keeps little old NZ a float. If it's so important, and we have to pipe gas too them such a long way, wouldn't it make sense to invest in a 2nd line? Yeah it's a massive cost but the 30 year pipe ain' getting any younger. And if The Land of Auck is such a backbone of our country why leave it to chance?

And let's not get started on how stupid it is where it's laid. I mean really, an unstable coastal cliff! :facepalm:

avgas

28th October 2011, 10:50

Dual-Fuel doesn't sound so fucking expensive now does it management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....

....bitch groan grumble under-quoted engineering grumble grown bitch........

Usarka

28th October 2011, 11:02

I think it's kinda dumb in this day and age when we have only one supply line going to the "biggest economy" in the country and apparently it's what keeps little old NZ a float.

Yeah I could just see that a couple of years ago when all was well:

Vector/Maui: Hi Mr Cafe owner, would you like to pay an extra 30% on your monthly bill for us to build and maintain a redundant gas line?

Cafe owner: Fuck off.

HenryDorsetCase

28th October 2011, 11:06

Alot of business are running on a knife edge at the moment. Few days lost takings can be fatal. Wages could not be paid.

If they have interruption insurance payouts could take to long. Welcome to business in the new century. :facepalm:

Fuck that, welcome to doing business in Chur chur for the past year. Just saying.

Murray

28th October 2011, 11:15

Did I moan about it...was it anyone fault?..no and probably but you just sit it out and continue on reguardless.
Thats business.

Your moaning now - stop moaning about moaners and sit it out

Latte

28th October 2011, 11:28

So they are tight as well?..
Theres a small cafe up this way for sale at the moment..
Its more of a 'pick and go' cafe at Matakana.
There are a few seats outside if you must....

It has a turnover of $13K pw....
I know there a thousands out there that are worse off than the affected Cafe's around the place, and will be for alot longer..long after the gas is restored.
Whats wrong with boiling the jug?

13k p/w, owners would be lucky to draw average wage with that turnover.

Jantar

28th October 2011, 12:40

I think it's kinda dumb in this day and age when we have only one supply line going to the "biggest economy" in the country and apparently it's what keeps little old NZ a float. .....

There are two pipelines. There was a time when one was adequate (30 years ago), but as Auckland and the Waikato expanded a second (larger) one was built. It is the larger pipe that is leaking.

I wonder how long it will be before people in Auckland will realise that the geography of New Zealand simply does not support such a large population base in the narrowest part of the country, and requires the majority all energy and water supplies to be transported from a single direction.

george formby

28th October 2011, 13:05

Anybody remember the power going out in Auks? Same reason the gas has gone pfffft, lack of investment in modernising & expanding infrastructure. She'll be right mate, have an iced coffee for a change.

Whichever way you look at it we are being shafted, we pay so their are investor dividends & we suffer for a lack of reciprocal investment from the utility companies when it all goes tits up. Then we pay again to fix it.:blink:

Cafe owners? From personal experience I know that it is a very tough way to earn a crust, a lot will be hurting.

Brett

28th October 2011, 14:28

13k p/w, owners would be lucky to draw average wage with that turnover.

Would be interesting to know what the average profit margin is for the average cafe...I know coffee's have the highest pm.

Brett

28th October 2011, 14:30

So they are tight as well?..
Theres a small cafe up this way for sale at the moment..
Its more of a 'pick and go' cafe at Matakana.
There are a few seats outside if you must....

It has a turnover of $13K pw....
I know there a thousands out there that are worse off than the affected Cafe's around the place, and will be for alot longer..long after the gas is restored.
Whats wrong with boiling the jug?

How much are they asking? price will usually be 3-4times EBITDA...if they're serious about selling that is.

Murray

28th October 2011, 14:37

Would be interesting to know what the average profit margin is for the average cafe

Maybe even average loss??
Lease, Insurance, power, wages Food COS, crockery/cutlery replacement, R&M, Food Licenses (upto $600 a year), liquor licenses (if licensed), cost of serviettes, wrapping, equipment, utensils, promotion, advertising, Rates?, cleaning materials, printing & Stationery, signage, tills etc
lot of costs for sometimes little return and hard work
Seem to be many opening and closing in short time!

george formby

28th October 2011, 15:18

Maybe even average loss??
Lease, Insurance, power, wages Food COS, crockery/cutlery replacement, R&M, Food Licenses (upto $600 a year), liquor licenses (if licensed), cost of serviettes, wrapping, equipment, utensils, promotion, advertising, Rates?, cleaning materials, printing & Stationery, signage, tills etc
lot of costs for sometimes little return and hard work
Seem to be many opening and closing in short time!

You missed a few but good effort.

An NZ statistic from about 4 years ago stated that 95% of new restaurant / cafe start ups go bust in the first year, 95% of whats left go bust within 5 years. Your two biggest anchors are wage cost & food wastage / portion control. Wages cripple you, a bank holiday is time + 1/2 plus a day in lieu. Paid for 8 hours even if the employee only works 2 hours. $14 an hour turns into $35 an hour. Kaching, that's a lot of blt's. If your chef cannot portion control or wastes stock your screwed to, 1 kg snapper @ $27 kg in the bin means you have lost $108..... Kaching.

You used to be able to charge 3 times food cost & make a bit of profit, in the last few years it has to be 4 times or your bust. That is my experience since 2001 when costs really started to bite.

Yup, tough business unless your well financed & very switched on.

Murray

28th October 2011, 15:36

You missed a few but good effort.

Yup, tough business unless your well financed & very switched on.

Only a few thats why I put in etc - can add uniforms, name badges, ACC levy's, Kiwisaver, Laundry, vehicle expenses, credit card commission, bank fees, telephone rental, computer costs, accountants costs, staff meals and a biggie Staff Theft etc etc etc

Winston001

28th October 2011, 16:09

There are two pipelines. There was a time when one was adequate (30 years ago), but as Auckland and the Waikato expanded a second (larger) one was built. It is the larger pipe that is leaking.

Good man, didn't know that. For all the noise about the leaking pipe, nobody seems to be making your point. At least this explains how gas is still flowing.

As for another pipeline, consumers won't want to pay for it, and apparently there are only 15 more years of gas.

I wonder how long it will be before people in Auckland will realise that the geography of New Zealand simply does not support such a large population base in the narrowest part of the country, and requires the majority all energy and water supplies to be transported from a single direction.

Yep me too but nobody wants to talk about that. Unfortunately there are too many votes in the Auckland region.

Maha

28th October 2011, 16:47

How much are they asking? price will usually be 3-4times EBITDA...if they're serious about selling that is.

$260K....:yes:

blue rider

28th October 2011, 17:26

I wonder how long it will be before people in Auckland will realise that the geography of New Zealand simply does not support such a large population base in the narrowest part of the country, and requires the majority all energy and water supplies to be transported from a single direction.

we have already realised some 10 + years ago, its just that no one believes us. Most of us Aucklanders could do with a population stop. But where would the people go? Wellington? Nelson? Gisborne? .....Invercargill? There are really not many options, and for some reason business settles here so people move because of job opportunities.

The country side is lovely, but no place to earn a decent crust.l

Usarka

28th October 2011, 17:27

The cost to run a zip machine is phenonmenomnomnoml

Head on the radio today that Auckland rates are going up (in most places). Hold on, Rodney Hide said amalgamating into a super city would make it cheaper to do council stuff......

neels

28th October 2011, 17:48

nosebleed

29th October 2011, 08:10

Not 100% sure if the gas division operates like the electric division, but if it does; for all those demanding compensation I see the words "Charter Claim" in your future.

Read the terms and conditions from your gas retailer, and good luck.

Maha

29th October 2011, 08:13

13k p/w, owners would be lucky to draw average wage with that turnover.

I am sure the $13K p/w advertised is a great selling point not a ''make ends meet'' comment. (in this situation)

Brett

29th October 2011, 09:53

I am sure the $13K p/w advertised is a great selling point not a ''make ends meet'' comment. (in this situation)

I recently looked at buying a bar, restaurant and cafe here in Auckland, massive foot traffic, in a very good area with good supporting businesses and draw points including a new large new rail hub. They had a great fitout, cost them $1.8M to do only a couple of years back, and there turnover wasn't bad, however their earnings were quite low. They were turning over $40-$50k a week with serious room for business development/improvement but they were asking nearly 5 times EBITDA. I wonder how many hospitality businesses have an over inflated value on what their business is really worth? (In fact, I would imagine this applies to many businesses for sale.)
I don't think I would be very interested in trying my hand at coffee shops. Bars and clubs seem to have a higher strike rate, must be the margins on alcohol.

george formby

29th October 2011, 10:25

I recently looked at buying a bar, restaurant and cafe here in Auckland, massive foot traffic, in a very good area with good supporting businesses and draw points including a new large new rail hub. They had a great fitout, cost them $1.8M to do only a couple of years back, and there turnover wasn't bad, however their earnings were quite low. They were turning over $40-$50k a week with serious room for business development/improvement but they were asking nearly 5 times EBITDA. I wonder how many hospitality businesses have an over inflated value on what their business is really worth? (In fact, I would imagine this applies to many businesses for sale.)
I don't think I would be very interested in trying my hand at coffee shops. Bars and clubs seem to have a higher strike rate, must be the margins on alcohol.

Nailed it. Bottle of wine at Countdown, below cost $12, on the wine list, $30 & you just need to train someone to use a cork screw. Nope, that's no longer true either, twist & glug is the go.

Big bar / restaurants or well placed fast food outlets is where it's at. I would have a fish & chip shop in the blink of an eye.

steve_t

29th October 2011, 10:34

Cost of stubbie $2.19 incl. Average price in bar $8-9. Tap beer - even better

tigertim20

29th October 2011, 11:27

If they have no contingency plan for an event such as this then ...well bugger really...

IE: BK aint complaining.
Sure, much bigger company and thier loss must be massive, but I bet they have the patty's covered.
BK are massive, you were talking about cafe's first.
Im picking their profit margin isnt actually that high. a few days off work, and they HAVE to pay their full time employees, AND get no income? yeah thats a bit tough when its because one of your suppliers fucked up.
If (before I sold it) my business was unable to produce for a couple days because of a supplier fuckup, Id be absolutely fucking ropeable, time is money man.

Don't know about up your way, but Labour Day down here we were hard pressed to find cafes open because of them not wanting to pay extra wages and lieu days. I would of thought they would of made a lot more business on a public holiday.

working labour day you gotta pay basically 2.5x normal wages for each employee. thats a noticeable increase in overheads for the day, especially if you have 3-4 staff. They're probably guessing (fairly accurate I imagine) than any increase in patronage would fall short of matching the increased cost of being open.
and for cafe's, Id not be surprised if they didnt make any more money. people do family shit on holidays, all those locals who'd come in for morning tea/lunch before/after work coffees etc during their work day wont be coming in remember - thats probably 80% of their normal business not coming through

jellywrestler

29th October 2011, 11:28

Flip

29th October 2011, 11:34

Well heres the kicka!...typical corporates

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5866845/Gas-leak-will-cause-food-price-hikes

So once again WE have to pay for a huge corporate companys loss of service!.....they charge us premium prices all year for their gas service, and yet when it breaks down the effected companies just pass the costs onto us! -Not the Gas company...shit no...they have big name lawyers...joe bloggs can cover it! (I mean its not like over charging us for so many years made them the profit monsters that they are nowdays...yeah screw the little guy for some more $$$!)

The gas company should be covering all forms of loss......with the profits they make, they should have insurance cover for such things :yes:

.....But on a good note for you drinkers....."Beer supplies were safe" LOL

The gas supplier and the retail network operator which might be a different company are in a force majure situation, its NGC who have the pipe line problem and can't supply gas to the retailers.

All the retail gas supply contracts contain a clause that says they can't be held responsible for damages because of a gas outage. The gas retailers won't supply on any other basis. Keep in mind the market is driven by price, so go get the lowest price network capital costs have to be kept as low as possible. That means there is little to no operational redundency built in. All the north island gas retail networks are a single point of supply system.

How fucking difficult would it be to drop a few LPG cylinders in to the cafe and do a quick nat-lpg jet change over on the appliances. Espcially if you were prepared for it. But no, like the wingy poms we are decended from, we go running to the media, or our lawyers rather than do some thing about the problem.

The ones who have me stuffed are those dairy companies who have been tipping milk away. Where the hell was their emergency business-engineering planning. A diesel burner, a hose and 4 bolts would have got them back in production, which would have cost less than one tanker load of milk.

Yea I know its a bit of a rant but I am from the boiler and fuel industry.

Maha

29th October 2011, 11:35

Nailed it. Bottle of wine at Countdown, below cost $12, on the wine list, $30 & you just need to train someone to use a cork screw. Nope, that's no longer true either, twist & glug is the go.

Big bar / restaurants or well placed fast food outlets is where it's at. I would have a fish & chip shop in the blink of an eye.

They would still charge you a corkage fee though?...yes?...:corn:
This is your industry Mark, the other point of notice about the Cafe' here for sale is they use 25kgs of coffee p/w.
I dont know how that would equate into the weekly turnover of $13K..they do food also, which is cooked on site.

Maha

29th October 2011, 11:40

BK are massive, you were talking about cafe's first.
Im picking their profit margin isnt actually that high. a few days off work, and they HAVE to pay their full time employees, AND get no income? yeah thats a bit tough when its because one of your suppliers fucked up.
If (before I sold it) my business was unable to produce for a couple days because of a supplier fuckup, Id be absolutely fucking ropeable, time is money man.

As a contractor/wage earner for 30 years + in my industry...I know the value of Time V Money...eggs are best served scrambled

willytheekid

29th October 2011, 12:36

The gas supplier and the retail network operator which might be a different company are in a force majure situation, its NGC who have the pipe line problem and can't supply gas to the retailers.

All the retail gas supply contracts contain a clause that says they can't be held responsible for damages because of a gas outage. The gas retailers won't supply on any other basis. Keep in mind the market is driven by price, so go get the lowest price network capital costs have to be kept as low as possible. That means there is little to no operational redundency built in. All the north island gas retail networks are a single point of supply system.

How fucking difficult would it be to drop a few LPG cylinders in to the cafe and do a quick nat-lpg jet change over on the appliances. Espcially if you were prepared for it. But no, like the wingy poms we are decended from, we go running to the media, or our lawyers rather than do some thing about the problem.

The ones who have me stuffed are those dairy companies who have been tipping milk away. Where the hell was their emergency business-engineering planning. A diesel burner, a hose and 4 bolts would have got them back in production, which would have cost less than one tanker load of milk.

Yea I know its a bit of a rant but I am from the boiler and fuel industry.

Awesome explanation mate :yes:, thank you for clarifying that.

I work for Gen-i (a division of telecom), we are contractually obligated to build in redundancy measures for major networks etc, and are also held accountable for impacting loss of service....hence why I could not understand why the gas company didn't have redundancy measures in place and are not being held financially accountable for the loss of service (As the power company's etc are...and a bit pissed at another hike in grocery prices because of this outage:facepalm:)
Your dead right regarding the LPG cylinders and the dairy company's......but that would require commonsense and a little bit of effort (both of which seem to be severely lacking now days!)

Thanks again for the explanation Flip, always good to learn and understand new things.

Good hearing from ya mate, hope all is well (Dog, bike, life in Oamaru etc).....hope to catch up with ya for another ride one day...("sniff"...I still haven't had a go in your awesome side car :crybaby: lol)

Take care

-Willy

george formby

29th October 2011, 12:39

They would still charge you a corkage fee though?...yes?...:corn:
This is your industry Mark, the other point of notice about the Cafe' here for sale is they use 25kgs of coffee p/w.
I dont know how that would equate into the weekly turnover of $13K..they do food also, which is cooked on site.

Corkage if it was a BYO restaurant yes.

25 kg's coffee, approx 60 double shots to the kg, 1500 coffees, average price $4 = $6000. Nice earner, but something does not stack up. I worked in a 40 seater cafe using 60kg a week, the coffee was considerably less than 35% of turnover.

A lot of money to lose if the utilities go phut. Wonder what the rent & conditions of lease are...

BMWST?

29th October 2011, 12:50

Awesome explanation mate :yes:, thank you for clarifying that.

I work for Gen-i (a division of telecom), we are contractually obligated to build in redundancy measures for major networks etc, and are also held accountable for impacting loss of service....hence why I could not understand why the gas company didn't have redundancy measures in place and are not being held financially accountable for the loss of service (As the power company's etc are...and a bit pissed at another hike in grocery prices because of this outage:facepalm:)
Your dead right regarding the LPG cylinders and the dairy company's......but that would require commonsense and a little bit of effort (both of which seem to be severely lacking now days!)

Thanks again for the explanation Flip, always good to learn and understand new things.

Good hearing from ya mate, hope all is well (Dog, bike, life in Oamaru etc).....hope to catch up with ya for another ride one day...("sniff"...I still haven't had a go in your awesome side car :crybaby: lol)

Take care

-Willy
You must be joking right.Do you really expect there to be a spare pipeline just sitting there?We are not talking about just a few extra dollars...it would be millions and millions(and millions)I think you will find that just about every electricity,gas,telephone etc retailer has an out clause re damages through loss of service.And the onus for some sort of backup service is on the manufacturers,esp those claiming to be an "essential" industry.

Usarka

29th October 2011, 13:16

If you are a National voter: It's up to each business to either have a backup, or to put demand on their suppliers and let the market work it out.

If you are a Labour voter: It's such a critical part of the countries infrastructure that it should be owned or regulated by the government.

imdying

29th October 2011, 13:17

I could not understand why the gas company didn't have redundancy measures in place and are not being held financially accountable for the loss of service (As the power company's etc are...and a bit pissed at another hike in grocery prices because of this outage:facepalm:)In your industry they go to the competition if you say you won't provide that. In gas supply they say have a nice day if you ask for that.

Jantar

29th October 2011, 14:14

....The ones who have me stuffed are those dairy companies who have been tipping milk away. Where the hell was their emergency business-engineering planning. A diesel burner, a hose and 4 bolts would have got them back in production, which would have cost less than one tanker load of milk.

Yea I know its a bit of a rant but I am from the boiler and fuel industry.

A diesel burner a hose and 4 bolts? Are you serious? One dairy factory that our company supplies heat to requires 320 GJ of heat per hour in the form of super heated steam. Would you like to re-assess that 4 bolt connection and work out just where that quantity of diesel is coming from?

Flip

29th October 2011, 14:25

Awesome explanation mate :yes:, thank you for clarifying that.

I work for Gen-i (a division of telecom), we are contractually obligated to build in redundancy measures for major networks etc, and are also held accountable for impacting loss of service....hence why I could not understand why the gas company didn't have redundancy measures in place and are not being held financially accountable for the loss of service (As the power company's etc are...and a bit pissed at another hike in grocery prices because of this outage:facepalm:)
Your dead right regarding the LPG cylinders and the dairy company's......but that would require commonsense and a little bit of effort (both of which seem to be severely lacking now days!)

Thanks again for the explanation Flip, always good to learn and understand new things.

Good hearing from ya mate, hope all is well (Dog, bike, life in Oamaru etc).....hope to catch up with ya for another ride one day...("sniff"...I still haven't had a go in your awesome side car :crybaby: lol)

Take care

-Willy

But speaking as someone who took out the telecom fiber on the corner of Parkhouse and Curlets rd recently, which shut off every telecom digital service south of Chch, even that system can be taken out. At least a big heavy steel pipe needs a big hit to actually damage it.

The only way the gas customers could claim composation would be due to neglegence. Problem is there are very few gas pipeline experts that are not employed indirectly or directly by the fuel industry and it would be the last job they ever did if they fingered NGC in civil court.

Going great down here. I look forward to going to work each day at the moment and I haven't felt this way for 20 years.

willytheekid

29th October 2011, 14:55

But speaking as someone who took out the telecom fiber on the corner of Parkhouse and Curlets rd recently, which shut off every telecom digital service south of Chch, even that system can be taken out.

Going great down here. I look forward to going to work each day at the moment and I haven't felt this way for 20 years.

:shit:...we have been looking for you! (bill is in the mail!) :laugh:

Good to hear everything is going well down there mate (give the dog and the bike a pat for me)

willytheekid

29th October 2011, 15:43

You must be joking right.Do you really expect there to be a spare pipeline just sitting there?We are not talking about just a few extra dollars...it would be millions and millions(and millions)I think you will find that just about every electricity,gas,telephone etc retailer has an out clause re damages through loss of service.And the onus for some sort of backup service is on the manufacturers,esp those claiming to be an "essential" industry.

:facepalm:.....did i say anything about a spare pipe line? :killingme

Nearly every MAJOR corporate company that WE deal with DO have redundancy plans in place when it comes to electricity, phones and internet supply....so why not gas supply in this case?(Talking about the "essential" industry you mentioned)...be it gas bottles or on site bulk storage for short term use during such outages. (instead of passing the buck on to the little guy at the supermarket)

My point was these large "essential" industry's have NOT planned for a possible outage (in a single point of failure service!), instead they have pushed their loss onto the public (200 million!!)...instead of acknowledging their lack of planning for such a failure, and stepping up and bearing some of the costs incurred.

So at the end of the day, it comes down to planning for "worst case scenario"...and both the large corps and the gas company DIDN'T! do this...and as a result, we the consumer (once again) have to cover the costs at the supermarket. (you seem to have forgotten that these company's make a SHIT load of profit off us already, and should have had these back ups in place, or at least a well formulated plan!)

And the worse thing out of this is....RICE-BUBBLES ARE GOING UP!! :crybaby:

But the good new is.....No beer supply's where effected!! :woohoo:

Cheers for the feed back BMWST, have great weekend...and stock up on rice-bubbles!

-Willy

Fatt Max

29th October 2011, 19:01

Its a tragedy when the production of pies are threatened in any way.......

ckai

29th October 2011, 21:36

There are two pipelines. There was a time when one was adequate (30 years ago), but as Auckland and the Waikato expanded a second (larger) one was built. It is the larger pipe that is leaking.

I wonder how long it will be before people in Auckland will realise that the geography of New Zealand simply does not support such a large population base in the narrowest part of the country, and requires the majority all energy and water supplies to be transported from a single direction.

Yeah I knew there are two. The busted one is also feckin HUGE compared to the original one. They use the little fella for the residential, hence why they haven't said for residential customers to stop using.

Everything is adequate "30 years ago" haha. This is the problem with not looking forward though. I wonder what the flow through the big bugger is like on a normal day? Would be interesting to know how close to capacity it is.

But you're right. We're a small country geographically, but it's kinda foolish to put all your eggs in one basket (nearly) and not have a plan B.

How fucking difficult would it be to drop a few LPG cylinders in to the cafe and do a quick nat-lpg jet change over on the appliances. Espcially if you were prepared for it. But no, like the wingy poms we are decended from, we go running to the media, or our lawyers rather than do some thing about the problem.

A few Waikato cafes have done just that. Of course, as some have realised, not all appliances can run on both so they've had to switch out all their appliances as well. Like one place said, better to spend thousands now and not lose thousands and thousands in lost revenue.

Yeah I could just see that a couple of years ago when all was well:

Vector/Maui: Hi Mr Cafe owner, would you like to pay an extra 30% on your monthly bill for us to build and maintain a redundant gas line?

Cafe owner: Fuck off.

How long did it take Transpower to sell the idea that it needed to put through a 2nd BIG fuck off line to Auckland? Auckland is only ever gonna get bigger and drain move resources. Nothing stays redundant for long if at all.

Besides, just ends up costing more when you're forced to do it. Take Tauranga for example, the council at the time of building the Mt-Tauranga bridge thought they'd save money by scrapping the plans for a four lanner. Now, it's cost them 10 times as much to put in another crossing. Bugger.

BMWST?

29th October 2011, 21:50

:facepalm:.....did i say anything about a spare pipe line? :killingme

Nearly every MAJOR corporate company that WE deal with DO have redundancy plans in place when it comes to electricity, phones and internet supply....so why not gas supply in this case?(Talking about the "essential" industry you mentioned)...be it gas bottles or on site bulk storage for short term use during such outages. (instead of passing the buck on to the little guy at the supermarket)

My point was these large "essential" industry's have NOT planned for a possible outage (in a single point of failure service!), instead they have pushed their loss onto the public (200 million!!)...instead of acknowledging their lack of planning for such a failure, and stepping up and bearing some of the costs incurred.

So at the end of the day, it comes down to planning for "worst case scenario"...and both the large corps and the gas company DIDN'T! do this...and as a result, we the consumer (once again) have to cover the costs at the supermarket. (you seem to have forgotten that these company's make a SHIT load of profit off us already, and should have had these back ups in place, or at least a well formulated plan!)

And the worse thing out of this is....RICE-BUBBLES ARE GOING UP!! :crybaby:

But the good new is.....No beer supply's where effected!! :woohoo:

Cheers for the feed back BMWST, have great weekend...and stock up on rice-bubbles!

-Willy

Eiter way we pay..we pay the extra for the lack of planning when supplies are short or we pay a higher price to cover the investment they make for emergency situations...I didnt really think you thought there should be a spare pipeline!

willytheekid

29th October 2011, 21:59

Eiter way we pay..we pay the extra for the lack of planning when supplies are short or we pay a higher price to cover the investment they make for emergency situations...I didnt really think you thought there should be a spare pipeline!

Yeah..they certainly seem to put alot of planning into getting money out of us :facepalm:

....bet ya the smaller pipe line has a fault next :laugh: (And of course we will have to pay for that to be upgraded...oops...I mean "fixed":msn-wink:)