Moto 1

[CHOPPA]

Now that im building a bucket you guys are gonna have to put up with all my threads like the racing forum has for the last couple of years...

It was Sketchys idea but I thought it was good and that was to have a Moto 1 class that allows standard up to 85cc engines with the only exception being a different pipe. They only make around 20ish HP atw so they wouldnt be faster then whats out there now.

The good things about it is that young MX kids could chuck some slicks on and race around but also you could have a fast competitive engine that you can easily pick up parts for. I was just talking to a young budding road racer on sunday and he would like to bucket race his KTM85. An 85cc engine in a RS125 would be a great bike

This has prob been discussed before and there are good reasons why not but im at home sick today so im bored

[richban]

Now that im building a bucket you guys are gonna have to put up with all my threads like the racing forum has for the last couple of years...

It was Sketchys idea but I thought it was good and that was to have a Moto 1 class that allows standard up to 85cc engines with the only exception being a different pipe. They only make around 20ish HP atw so they wouldnt be faster then whats out there now.

The good things about it is that young MX kids could chuck some slicks on and race around but also you could have a fast competitive engine that you can easily pick up parts for. I was just talking to a young budding road racer on sunday and he would like to bucket race his KTM85. An 85cc engine in a RS125 would be a great bike

This has prob been discussed before and there are good reasons why not but im at home sick today so im bored

I reckon its a good idea. I almost moved to the US last year and looked into how they were doing things in Portland. Very similar to what you suggest. Heaps of young kids on CRF150r dirt bikes with slicks. Then you also get the worked engines in RS frames etc. Kart tracks as well. Check the photos and rules. They do cater for everyone. Lots of Motards but all sorts of racing going on. http://www.oregonsuperbikers.com/photos

People might not agree but maybe its time bucket racing had a shake up, to keep inline with the Aussie's and the US. You will still get people making mad engines but you might also get a shit load of new racers.

[quallman1234]

I guess at the end of the day, if you get a couple of riders then it could catch on.
You might want to get approval from fishie first.

[richban]

You might want to get approval from fishie first.

I think you would want to change the rules first.
105cc water Cooled 2 stroke...Unlimited Mods
210cc air cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
150cc water cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
125 Aircooled 2 strokes Unlimited Mods.

Chassis choice is open.

Fun times.

[CHOPPA]

I think you would want to change the rules first.
105cc water Cooled 2 stroke...Unlimited Mods
210cc air cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
150cc water cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
125 Aircooled 2 strokes Unlimited Mods.

Chassis choice is open.

Fun times.

Less rules would make less problems, sorta like the F1 vs Superbike argument.

I guess the whole thing with buckets is the building of engines and thats what people like, if you could fit a standard small capacity competition engine im sure it would make things much easier to get into for the non mechanically minded.

Problem I see is that the guys that make up the backbone of the classes have put in thousands of hours into there engines within the rules and if a new class came in then it may make them feel there bikes are not competitive so they will oppose a rule change but if the rules were relaxed at the club racing rounds then it may encourange people to get started.

In club rounds we run F1 so its no rules basically. You could turn up on a MotoGP bike and race, not so for the nats because its production superbike

[Tard]

I think you would want to change the rules first.
105cc water Cooled 2 stroke...Unlimited Mods
210cc air cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
150cc water cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
125 Aircooled 2 strokes Unlimited Mods.

Chassis choice is open. Fun times.

Starting point would be what 'standard' engines/parts are going to be available going forward e.g. shiteload available now?
Some of the older engines etc are getting harder to find parts for...or so I'm told?
Be bit of a **** up if any changes made it harder/more expensive to get into? :brick:

[Tard]

Fixed it up for you Rich...:clap:


I reckon its a good idea....BIG kids on CRF150r dirt bikes with slicks. You will still get people making mad engines but you might also get a shit load of new racers.

...and yeah, I agree, it'd be all good :niceone:

[F5 Dave]

. . .
People might not agree but maybe its time bucket racing had a shake up, to keep inline with the Aussie's and the US. You will still get people making mad engines but you might also get a shit load of new racers.

I doubt it will attract more riders than currently can be attracted. In fact one of the big attractions is that it is cheap. An FXR for a k will get you going & with talent & some wider wheels pretty near the pointy end. From there you decide how to spend or build.

We don't have the money in NZ like Aus have for expanding the classes. We don't want to make current bikes obsolete. That 20hp will come with a decent spread of power & then how does one police how std the barrels are?

[richban]

Problem I see is that the guys that make up the backbone of the classes have put in thousands of hours into there engines within the rules and if a new class came in then it may make them feel there bikes are not competitive so they will oppose a rule change but if the rules were relaxed at the club racing rounds then it may encourange people to get started.

In club rounds we run F1 so its no rules basically. You could turn up on a MotoGP bike and race, not so for the nats because its production superbike

Hummm it is a tricky one. There are a lot of people that like playing with engines and have invested a lot of time. But also a lot of people that want to race hard. Always hard to please everyone so yeah club level discretion is maybe the way to go. I used to race my 190 vespa until I could sort a proper bike. I think the main thing is getting young riders on track. In the last year in wellington we have defiantly seen an increase in younger riders thanks to the work of Fishie and others. Its great to have people like yourself and Sketchy around at buckets to encourage more bums on seats.

If people turn up and show interest they usually get a ride on something.

[richban]

I doubt it will attract more riders than currently can be attracted. In fact one of the big attractions is that it is cheap. An FXR for a k will get you going & with talent & some wider wheels pretty near the pointy end. From there you decide how to spend or build.

We don't have the money in NZ like Aus have for expanding the classes. We don't want to make current bikes obsolete. That 20hp will come with a decent spread of power & then how does one police how std the barrels are?

Agreed. Me just taking the piss really. Small pond and all that. Obsolete is a matter of opinion. So does a 30hp 2 stroke engine in an rs125 chassis make all the 20hp old steel framed commuters obsolete? That will depend on who is riding them me thinks. One man's obsolete is another mans pride and joy. There is plenty of progression left with the current rules me thinks. Lots of new learner bikes coming out that will end up as buckets as time goes on.

[Mental Trousers]

I doubt it will attract more riders than currently can be attracted. In fact one of the big attractions is that it is cheap. An FXR for a k will get you going & with talent & some wider wheels pretty near the pointy end. From there you decide how to spend or build.

We don't have the money in NZ like Aus have for expanding the classes. We don't want to make current bikes obsolete. That 20hp will come with a decent spread of power & then how does one police how std the barrels are?

I think what Choppa is looking at is encouraging kids to cross over from MX, using the same bike but with slicks on. Essentially a mini-motard type setup.

MX attracts a hell of a lot of kids/families and giving them an easy and cheap way to cross over has got to be a good thing.

[jasonu]

I doubt it will attract more riders than currently can be attracted. In fact one of the big attractions is that it is cheap. An FXR for a k will get you going & with talent & some wider wheels pretty near the pointy end. From there you decide how to spend or build.

We don't have the money in NZ like Aus have for expanding the classes. We don't want to make current bikes obsolete. That 20hp will come with a decent spread of power & then how does one police how std the barrels are?

Agreed


Hummm it is a tricky one. There are a lot of people that like playing with engines and have invested a lot of time. But also a lot of people that want to race hard. Always hard to please everyone so yeah club level discretion is maybe the way to go. I used to race my 190 vespa until I could sort a proper bike. I think the main thing is getting young riders on track. In the last year in wellington we have defiantly seen an increase in younger riders thanks to the work of Fishie and others. Its great to have people like yourself and Sketchy around at buckets to encourage more bums on seats.

If people turn up and show interest they usually get a ride on something.

IMO it would have to be the same rules countrywide. No good if you take your bike to another track only to find out it is not legal. A prime example of that would be the upcoming GP at Taupo.

We discussed the 80/85cc MX engine class a long time ago when Buckets was struggleing. These days with big entry numbers would there be time to run another class without reducing track time for the existing classes.

[richban]

Agreed



IMO it would have to be the same rules countrywide. No good if you take your bike to another track only to find out it is not legal. A prime example of that would be the upcoming GP at Taupo.

We discussed the 80/85cc MX engine class a long tim ago when Buckets was struggleing. These days with big entry numbers would there be time to run another class without reducing track time for the existing classes.

When people turn up and want to race on bike that's not to illegal. They are generally told yeah sure mate have a go. Your bike don't fit with the rules but when you get hooked you can get a proper one. Seems to work ok. The GP is a bad example as it only happens once a year. Club level is once a month. All year.

[quallman1234]

I think you would want to change the rules first.
105cc water Cooled 2 stroke...Unlimited Mods
210cc air cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
150cc water cooled 4 stroke ....Unlimited Mods
125 Aircooled 2 strokes Unlimited Mods.

Chassis choice is open.

Fun times.

I assume that he is already building one out of a CRM80, which is questionably legal. Might want to get fishies approval if he was to turn up on a CR80 based bucket was my point :)

[richban]

I assume that he is already building one out of a CRM80, which is questionably legal. Might want to get fishies approval if he was to turn up on a CR80 based bucket was my point.

I see. Got yah.

[Moooools]

Great idea Chop.

Kind of hard to police how stock any bike is they are, but you could leave it as:

Engine must be in stock frame with stock swing arm.
Suspension open.
Wheels Open.
Brakes Open.
Compulsory MX bars.
Compulsary MX body work.

Last two seem a bit superfluous but would keep it motard style and the riding style closer between racers.

Those 'real racers' are always talking about getting the MX kids across to road racing...

[jasonu]

When people turn up and want to race on bike that's not to illegal. They are generally told yeah sure mate have a go. Your bike don't fit with the rules but when you get hooked you can get a proper one. Seems to work ok. The GP is a bad example as it only happens once a year. Club level is once a month. All year.

If you use your example of the occasional guy showing up on something not within the rules just to have a go then as long as that doesn't affect the outcome of a points series then no probs. But if guys start showing up regularly on (for example) MX bikes then I would be against that as it promotes a 'stuff the rules' attitude and you wouldn't get away with it in 'proper' classes.

[Henk]

The other thing to consider with going for different or more powerful engines and possibly heavier bikes is how the kart clubs feel about having these bikes on their tracks. They are quite protective of the surfaces. Might not bean issue but should be considered

[bogan]

Sliding scale of tyre size vs engine type/size/work, essentially the more hp you get, the smaller rear tyre you have to run! That would make for some interesting racing :yes:

edit: pun intended with the sliding scale bit too :shifty:

[Moooools]

The other consideration if you want MX kids to race is age restrictions.

Like at what age are the actually racing these bikes? Given that the current limit is 13 there may have to be some adaptation.

[quallman1234]

MX85 bikes in a motard class would be kinda cool, but i think the kart club would like wtf? Where as you can get away with adding 85's in a road frame without really seeing a increase in speed or change in looks.
It would certainly be a way to easily have a decent pace and a good training platform for bigger bikes, i know sketchy has being thinking about doing this for a while now.
There's also the added advantage of matching the rules of Ausie and USA more closely. Though i doubt anyone would go and race over there, there is the ability to import a race bike (reasonably cheap for the quality you get) or two if you happen to have access to a spare container coming anyway. Which from time to time people do have.

[Moooools]

Remember that wellington (I think) is the exception here. Most buckets are running on separate days to karts around the country.
I can't see them having too much of a problem with going down in capacity and weight, plus getting some money in the bank.
With any luck wellington might have enough regular riders for separate meetings in a few years time.

[gav]

Interesting idea, certainly in Aus they seem popular but they also have Moriwaki 80's and Metrakits as well. Can't see it working too well down here in the South Island. Buckets don't run there own race meets so bit tricky running a seperate class for them. If you have youngsters running a 85cc MX bike on slicks, what happens when they try using MX techniques, leg out, squaring off corners etc mixed in with the bucket class? Imagine the carnage running on full circuit at Ruapuna, lil two strokes seizing all over the place, cooked discs and no brakes? :rolleyes:

[Str8 Jacket]

I was having a bit of a think about this today. Was initially against it but there are a few things that could work, especially down here in Welly's where we do not run under MNZ..... It would mean getting the Kart Club on board to have an effective 'c' grade. We may also be able to invite and tempt the kart kids.... It would be a bit of work to set up but buggar all with willing and keen people behind it. I for one would be happy to be involved in helping set something like this up in Welly's.
I am really keen on getting young people involved in road racing and it's ideas like this that may actually help build the class. We trial it for a season and then approach MNZ about it, or not. I would be happy to assist the kids in understanding the basics of racing like flags and other basic track etiquette and you fast buggars can help them with their riding.

I think that this idea has some merit if we can get a core group to discuss and then look at approaching the Kart Club. If we don't try how do we know if it's going to work or not....

[CHOPPA]

I was having a bit of a think about this today. Was initially against it but there are a few things that could work, especially down here in Welly's where we do not run under MNZ..... It would mean getting the Kart Club on board to have an effective 'c' grade. We may also be able to invite and tempt the kart kids.... It would be a bit of work to set up but buggar all with willing and keen people behind it. I for one would be happy to be involved in helping set something like this up in Welly's.
I am really keen on getting young people involved in road racing and it's ideas like this that may actually help build the class. We trial it for a season and then approach MNZ about it, or not. I would be happy to assist the kids in understanding the basics of racing like flags and other basic track etiquette and you fast buggars can help them with their riding.

I think that this idea has some merit if we can get a core group to discuss and then look at approaching the Kart Club. If we don't try how do we know if it's going to work or not....

The guy that I was supposed to be picking up the CRM off this weekend just told me its no longer going which could mean anything. Bucket racing for me is more about going out on a weekday and doing some 20 min motos for fitness instead of doing MX, I will prob turn up to some club days but im really considering just slotting a cr85 engine in. There are a few kids I know that would like to have a blast to see what they think about road racing.

If I make one and I cant race it I dont mind but from my research they are about 15hp at the wheel so its hardly gonna be a rocket ship just easy to build and maintain

[richban]

The guy that I was supposed to be picking up the CRM off this weekend just told me its no longer going which could mean anything. Bucket racing for me is more about going out on a weekday and doing some 20 min motos for fitness instead of doing MX, I will prob turn up to some club days but im really considering just slotting a cr85 engine in. There are a few kids I know that would like to have a blast to see what they think about road racing.

If I make one and I cant race it I dont mind but from my research they are about 15hp at the wheel so its hardly gonna be a rocket ship just easy to build and maintain

There are fuck all rules really. Just make a legal bucket like everyone else. Then when you get sick of it the kid you sell it too has no issuse when he wants to race at another club event.

[CHOPPA]

There are fuck all rules really. Just make a legal bucket like everyone else. Then when you get sick of it the kid you sell it too has no issuse when he wants to race at another club event.

Thats the goal, hey whats the rules for the kart track and testing and practice?

[Moooools]

Thats the goal, hey whats the rules for the kart track and testing and practice?

Non-Club Day Practice
You may not drive a kart without another person present. This other person must be capable of obtaining or giving assistance in the event of an accident. Practice sessions are for a maximum of 15 minutes if another kart is waiting. Separate sessions are required for Cadets, Junior Restricted, Juniors, and Seniors, ie only karts from one of these classes may be on the track at any one time. Protective clothing and an approved helmet, as per the KartSport NZ Licence book, must be used during any practice session. The Club does not charge practice fees - these form part of your subscription. The track is available to members on any non-Club day unless otherwise advised in the Club website. Please restrict your usage to between 9.00am and 5.00pm.


Track Access
A key must be obtained which will open the gate. The key does not allow entry to the clubrooms, which are additionally protected by an alarm system.
To obtain a key :
Contact Charmaine Jones, 04 234 8900. Your key will cost $120.00 for a full membership year and is pro-rata'd
on a monthly basis.
Your Responsibilities:
When you open the gate you must lock it again when you have entered. This ensures that non-club members do not enter without your knowledge and provide a possible conflict with OSH requirements. You may practice only between 9am and 5pm. Practice outside these hours may result in your being expelled from the Club and will certainly create problems with the Clubs neighbours. You are responsible for making sure that the track and
buildings are secure when you leave. If you found (or created) any damage to the track or buildings please ring the President or Secretary as soon as possible. The Club carries comprehensive insurance.


Obviously the bike must be a bucket and be fully crash protected also.

[Buckets4Me]

Now that im building a bucket you guys are gonna have to put up with all my threads like the racing forum has for the last couple of years...

Cool we dont care




It was Sketchys idea but I thought it was good and that was to have a Moto 1 class that allows standard up to 85cc engines with the only exception being a different pipe. They only make around 20ish HP atw so they wouldnt be faster then whats out there now.

no no no dont fix something thats not broken




The good things about it is that young MX kids could chuck some slicks on and race around but also you could have a fast competitive engine that you can easily pick up parts for.
start a motard class
F5
F4
Bucket motards any mx bike under 100cc 2 stroke
150cc 4 stroke
Bucket sidecars when they come back


I was just talking to a young budding road racer on sunday and he would like to bucket race his KTM85. An 85cc engine in a RS125 would be a great bike

and cost more than buying an fxr !!!!

[gav]

Originally Posted by CHOPPA
I was just talking to a young budding road racer on sunday and he would like to bucket race his KTM85. An 85cc engine in a RS125 would be a great bike ....

and cost more than buying an fxr !!!!

You'd be better off buying an FXR or maybe a RG150 and racing Streetstock on it, rather than messing around fitting an 85 into a RS125 ....

[richban]

God I'm bored. When is it time to go racing? Bored bored bored. Who gunna come second in the GP then. Third is my usual spot so thats taken.:third:

[Henk]

Bucket sidecars when they come back


They are coming back, believe.

[Pumba]

God I'm bored. When is it time to go racing? Bored bored bored. Who gunna come second in the GP then. Third is my usual spot so thats taken.:third:

I recon about 108 hours away, give or take.

[koba]

There are fuck all rules really. Just make a legal bucket like everyone else. Then when you get sick of it the kid you sell it too has no issuse when he wants to race at another club event.

+1


Now My bit...

I think one under-rated aspect of buckets as compared to "big" road racing is the lack of classes.

A typical club meet is diluted across around TEN classes. We have two, we could probably do with a C grade sometime soon but that's another topic. My point is we have good, competitive fields.


Restrictions such as "std this, std that" only work if enforced, what we have now is much more workable for our needs.
My experience and observation tells me heavily controlled classes achieve little of their objectives.

Either you:
1) Do it properly like Karts and have regular inspections and all kind of enforcement. You would end up with something like Karts.
2) Do it half arsed (How it would happen in NZ bike racing) and open the way for chronic cheating without mitigating the advantages people with better technical or financial backing will always have.

I notice many well intended suggestions of rule changes and how to make things "better". They tend to come from people new, or relativity new, to the particular niche. (Not just talking bikes here) Perhaps it is because those who have been around a bit longer (not me) have more insight into why things have evolved to be how they are. (I'm aware that may sound like me being a hubristic cunt, I really don't mean it that way.)

Leave it how it is, it works, it's growing and it is a fucking good hoot!

[CHOPPA]

+1


Now My bit...

I think one under-rated aspect of buckets as compared to "big" road racing is the lack of classes.

A typical club meet is diluted across around TEN classes. We have two, we could probably do with a C grade sometime soon but that's another topic. My point is we have good, competitive fields.


Restrictions such as "std this, std that" only work if enforced, what we have now is much more workable for our needs.
My experience and observation tells me heavily controlled classes achieve little of their objectives.

Either you:
1) Do it properly like Karts and have regular inspections and all kind of enforcement. You would end up with something like Karts.
2) Do it half arsed (How it would happen in NZ bike racing) and open the way for chronic cheating without mitigating the advantages people with better technical or financial backing will always have.

I notice many well intended suggestions of rule changes and how to make things "better". They tend to come from people new, or relativity new, to the particular niche. (Not just talking bikes here) Perhaps it is because those who have been around a bit longer (not me) have more insight into why things have evolved to be how they are. (I'm aware that may sound like me being a hubristic cunt, I really don't mean it that way.)

Leave it how it is, it works, it's growing and it is a fucking good hoot!

Its good to have the thought from guys that have lots of experience and thats the sort of info I was after.

[underpowered80]

we run a rs gp125 frame with water cooled kawasaki ar80 .its a road going sports bike available in britian and singapore.we run a kx80 moddified chamber and ignition.at ruapuna b track and full track its a top 10 placed bike we have great battles with PAUL GOOCH ON HIS FXR. WE TRIED SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND IT WORKS .

JUSTIN

[CHOPPA]

we run a rs gp125 frame with water cooled kawasaki ar80 .its a road going sports bike available in britian and singapore.we run a kx80 moddified chamber and ignition.at ruapuna b track and full track its a top 10 placed bike we have great battles with PAUL GOOCH ON HIS FXR. WE TRIED SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND IT WORKS .

JUSTIN

Sounds very much like a project im doing at the mo, good to hear!

[F5 Dave]

yeah it didn't go too bad & is a nice & small engine (I had the orange MB in RS at Ruapuna BOB).

[underpowered80]

My son currently runs a KAWASAKI AR80 water cooled motor in a HONDA RS GP 125 frame . The motor was out of a road bike common to AISA and Britian. This bike is always in the top ten bikes at Ruapuna or Greymouth street races. If you compare the AR80 with the KX80 you will not find any difference except 2nd gear.The pipe we use is off a KX80 with some modifications.It dose not have the speed of the CBR 150 or the top FXR 150 .If we like we can purchase a 100cc kit .But my son enjoys mixxing it with the FXR 150s .And it has been reliable.I beleive 80 and 85cc motors can provide good fun and cheap racing.

ROBIN

[CHOPPA]

My son currently runs a KAWASAKI AR80 water cooled motor in a HONDA RS GP 125 frame . The motor was out of a road bike common to AISA and Britian. This bike is always in the top ten bikes at Ruapuna or Greymouth street races. If you compare the AR80 with the KX80 you will not find any difference except 2nd gear.The pipe we use is off a KX80 with some modifications.It dose not have the speed of the CBR 150 or the top FXR 150 .If we like we can purchase a 100cc kit .But my son enjoys mixxing it with the FXR 150s .And it has been reliable.I beleive 80 and 85cc motors can provide good fun and cheap racing.

ROBIN

Where did you get the information regarding the engines? From my research the AR80 engine is completely different to a KX80 engine...

[CHOPPA]

These are the best 2 engine pics I could find...

[underpowered80]

THAT IS AN OLD STYLE MOTOR .GO TO pics OF KAWASAKI AR80 1999
SOMETIMES ALSO CALLED NINJA

ROBIN

[underpowered80]

the pic of the AR80 you have is an old version,
if you type in 1999 kawasaki Ar80 water cooled you should get a little road bike come up that looks like a small version of a KR 150.
it is a good engine to run , but still could do with some extra cc's.
they are popular in singapore and the older air cooled models were run in the uk in minature road race in the 80's

[CHOPPA]

the pic of the AR80 you have is an old version,
if you type in 1999 kawasaki Ar80 water cooled you should get a little road bike come up that looks like a small version of a KR 150.
it is a good engine to run , but still could do with some extra cc's.
they are popular in singapore and the older air cooled models were run in the uk in minature road race in the 80's

Im very keen to find out because I could essentially run a KX100....

Check out this picture, this is the last model of AR80 that was produced and this has the same engine....

If you could show me an AR80 with the same engine as a KX80 or some literature id be a happy man!

[CHOPPA]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_AR-80K

[underpowered80]

The ar80 motor is what we use .You are not allowed to run KX80 /100 .as its moto cross.if you go to KAWASAKI AR80 1999 PICTURES.It will show the different models.Hope this helps .I was just offering support for the use of moto cross motors as the power of the new four strokes by far exceeds what we run.Ifyou feel i was missleading then for this i am sorry.

ROBIN

[CHOPPA]

The ar80 motor is what we use .You are not allowed to run KX80 /100 .as its moto cross.if you go to KAWASAKI AR80 1999 PICTURES.It will show the different models.Hope this helps .I was just offering support for the use of moto cross motors as the power of the new four strokes by far exceeds what we run.Ifyou feel i was missleading then for this i am sorry.

ROBIN

I have checked out every model of the AR80 and checked out all the possible information that I can find the engine you are talking about, I can find a 8hp 80cc water cooled 2 stroke 6 speed but nothing even close to the engine your running.

Could you post a picture of the engine your using?

[gav]

Maybe you could post the engine number off the build plate too, that may help things?

[underpowered80]

all that is on our motor is ar80 82 cc it has a after market barrel 82cc and different head .the porting made all the difference and pipe also helped .we purchased our motor from aust.it was used in a bucket over their.sorry i cant be any more help .just try and find one that can be improved on . ROBIN

[underpowered80]

sorry i cant be of any more help. all iknow is our motor is an ar80 sorry you people cant find out more about it .now as far as i am concerned this correspondence is finnished.i have better things to do with my time .all i wanted to do was support a change in the rules not face the questions we cant answer.

ROBIN

[gav]

Ummm, Australia have different rules for their bucket racing over there. They can use 80cc MX engines in their bikes. So just because it was used in a bucket bike in Australia certainly doesnt mean in it is legal to use that motor here. Engine numbers are not usually stamped on the cylinder either.

[CHOPPA]

sorry i cant be of any more help. all iknow is our motor is an ar80 sorry you people cant find out more about it .now as far as i am concerned this correspondence is finnished.i have better things to do with my time .all i wanted to do was support a change in the rules not face the questions we cant answer.

ROBIN

Sorry if the questions where a problem, I was just trying to find information so I could use the same engine. It seems you think im accusing you of cheating which is not the case so if you could supply a photo of your engine then I could identify it for both of us cheers

[underpowered80]

Gavi the number on the barrel is only the cc rating .my son who built the bike said to me tonight if anyone wants a fast two stroke sleeve down a rg150 he said i give too much credit to the motor .he said after racing for 17yrs and on a rs frame .corner speed is where he gets riders. also the person he got the motor off .sold it because he had purchased a kx80 to replace it .i am not computer savvy so i cant send photos asi have said before go to kawasaki ar80 1999 and all the bikes come up from the philipines

robin

[CHOPPA]

Gavi the number on the barrel is only the cc rating .my son who built the bike said to me tonight if anyone wants a fast two stroke sleeve down a rg150 he said i give too much credit to the motor .he said after racing for 17yrs and on a rs frame .corner speed is where he gets riders. also the person he got the motor off .sold it because he had purchased a kx80 to replace it .i am not computer savvy so i cant send photos asi have said before go to kawasaki ar80 1999 and all the bikes come up from the philipines

robin

No problem mate, appreciate your help! I think by the sounds of things im going down a very similar route with the CRM80 engine so ill let you know how it all pans out :msn-wink:

[underpowered80]

Hi,

this picture should help you out with the AR 80 issue.
I am the one who purchased the engine from aus and i fitted it into an rs125gp frame (91 model)
the motor has had some major work done to it since it was about 10hp standard, it has a six speed gear box, it was extremely under powered and had bugger all torque.
It has had extensive porting and head work, it has a v force 3 reed system fitted (which i fitted), a modified kx 80 exhaust ( all weld seams purge welded as im a fitter welder and everyone knows with a 2 stroke your exhaust is a very crucial part for success)
I have modified a rear moto X rear sprocket(42) and cnc'd my own stud centres and tig welded into sprocket centre to match the rs rear rim so the bike has more pull out of corners, The bike has been a project which i have done all the engineering and fitting work on so in the contex of buckets it has all been done by myself and very satisfying to get it on the track.
I just like to think that looking outside the square has its advantages and to have something that is different to everyone else makes it unique on the track.
So there is no cheating going on here just good old west coast engineering and riding the bike like an under powered rs 125 (high corner speed)

Regards
Justin Gray (#981)

[gav]

Hahaha, so Choppa asks for a photo of the (your) engine and you post a small photo of a fully faired bike?
Oh well ....
Has your motor no other engine numbers on it at all? Possibly near the countershaft sprocket? Or maybe its been ground off in Australia?
Posting some photos of your engine would help Choppa try and identify the engine.
You posted that the KX80 and AR80 engines are the same, yet none of those bikes pictured in the Phillipines appear to have an engine that is similiar to a KX motor. I think that is what Choppa was referring to.

[Yow Ling]

Stop acting like a policeman Gav, if you think its illegal protest it. Robin already told you to piss off !

[gav]

Stop acting like a policeman Gav, if you think its illegal protest it. Robin already told you to piss off !
Did I say it was illegal? And protest it to who? MNZ expect buckets to be "self policing" so they arent going to be interested?
If he has definative proof thats its an AR80 motor, thats great, all Choppa was asking was more info about it.

[jasonu]

Hi,


I have modified a rear moto X rear sprocket(42)

Regards
Justin Gray (#981)

Those are competition sprockets and are illegal for buckets.

[underpowered80]

Hi gav ihave taken the motor out .the only way to check for numbers .i found a no PA PE9 AR803038 it was tucked in the back near the sprocket.thanks for helping me find it. have checked it out on kawasaki site .no reference available to philipines manufacture but am glad i now can refer to this no
I CAN NOW FEEL HAPPY THAT ALL IS WELL

THANKS ROBIN

[Moooools]

Those are competition sprockets and are illegal for buckets.

I hope you are joking.

[underpowered80]

I have just looked at it and showed it to mech he said it was a casing no sorry for the confusion
it was behind casing'
robin

[Grumph]

For those still in doubt re the Kawa 80, just google Kawasaki AR80K for pics of the watercooled street bike.

I'm pretty sure this is the motor in question....and it's undoubtedly legal.

OK Robin ? ....and I'm still limping......

[underpowered80]

THANKS MATE how do you get through to some people they must have a different server to us as we can find pictures of our motor



CHEERS FOR THAT ITS DISAPOINTING WHEN PEOPLE LOOK FOR THINGS TO DISCREDIT YOU.

ROBIN

[CHOPPA]

For those still in doubt re the Kawa 80, just google Kawasaki AR80K for pics of the watercooled street bike.

I'm pretty sure this is the motor in question....and it's undoubtedly legal.

OK Robin ? ....and I'm still limping......

Your missing the point... No one suggested that Robins engine is illegal, it is from an AR80. Its the fact that he stated that the AR80 uses the same engine as the KX80. After lots of research I have not found any info to support that statement.

[CHOPPA]

THANKS MATE how do you get through to some people they must have a different server to us as we can find pictures of our motor



CHEERS FOR THAT ITS DISAPOINTING WHEN PEOPLE LOOK FOR THINGS TO DISCREDIT YOU.

ROBIN

Well if your so good at finding them how about you post a link to the pictures?

No one is trying to discredit you, im just trying to get information for myself but if the shoe fits.....

[underpowered80]

Sorry choppa i was not refering to you.the information about the kx 80 and ar80 being the same was what iwas told i am not the sort of person to misslead people if i was missimformed then iam sorry that i wasted your time i will not post on forums again as i find this upsetting to give incorrect information to you.

LAST TIME ON HERE

ROBIN

[CHOPPA]

Sorry choppa i was not refering to you.the information about the kx 80 and ar80 being the same was what iwas told i am not the sort of person to misslead people if i was missimformed then iam sorry that i wasted your time i will not post on forums again as i find this upsetting to give incorrect information to you.

LAST TIME ON HERE

ROBIN

Dont worry about it mate, thats what these forums are all about and its good to follow up all the leads I can, I simply cant stop thinking about motorbikes so thats why im always on here talking shit. Its kept me busy for a few hours.

[jasonu]

Your missing the point... No one suggested that Robins engine is illegal, it is from an AR80. Its the fact that he stated that the AR80 uses the same engine as the KX80. After lots of research I have not found any info to support that statement.

If they were any good then everybody would be using them.
If you want to be competitive you will need an H2O 100 2 stroke or (more likely) a 150 4 stroke. At the moment you can still win on a std road going chassis but that won't be the case for long.
Don't kid yourself into thinking there is another alternative that has been overlooked.
If you go in any other direction machine wise you will never be happy.

[gav]

Hi gav ihave taken the motor out .the only way to check for numbers .i found a no PA PE9 AR803038 it was tucked in the back near the sprocket.thanks for helping me find it. have checked it out on kawasaki site .no reference available to philipines manufacture but am glad i now can refer to this no
I CAN NOW FEEL HAPPY THAT ALL IS WELL

THANKS ROBIN
Great stuff Robin! Glad I could help. Good to clear stuff up, seems someone told you some misinformation regarding the KX80 and AR80 being the same.