Engine lovers....best thread.

[Motu]

The Art of Engine (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80568&page=1&pp=15)

This thread has been going on for some time,and it's just heaven for those who love engines....real art indead.

[bugjuice]

thanks for that.. some very impressive machinery there..

[Oscar]

The Art of Engine (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80568&page=1&pp=15)

This thread has been going on for some time,and it's just heaven for those who love engines....real art indead.


Loaded is a goddamn legend.
He's talking about visiting our fair shores soon...

[Ixion]

Ain't got the one I've always wanted to see. A one stroke engine.

Take an opposed piston design. Convert it to a swashplate and put a second piston head on the end of each piston. Now you have three bores, two pistons, four piston heads, and a power stroke on every stroke. The two pistons just get banged back and forth with a combustion at the end of each stroke. (A combustion chamber at left and right like a convention flat twin, and a "double" combustion chamber in the middle, serving the inner end of each piston - ie like a conventional opposed piston design (except that there isn't any such thing so it can't be conventional, but you know what I mean)

It's actually quite simple if you just think about it.

They did something similar with steam engines. I like steam.

EDIT: Charging has to be crankcase pressurised like a two stroke of course. So it's a one stroke two stroke

EDIT2. Actually I don't think it would need to be a swashplate. You could use two crank linked cranks, with the gudgeon pins serving as crankpins. Then link the cranks with conrods, like a locomotive engine (you'd need to extend the gudgeon pin crank pins into side bearer blocks, I guess to relieve the sideways loads on them which would otherwise be transmitted to the pistons).

It's really quite simple, and the only tricky part is the porting.

[bugjuice]

by far, the most impressive post in that thread, IMHO: has to be this one (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1529736&postcount=185)

The concept of how the engine works effectively is mind-numbing enough. I've never seen that concept before, let alone see it work. The intramaweb finally has another reason - research!!

One thing I've always wanted to do is build a 1:10th scale V8 from scratch. There's heaps of detailed manuals on the mighty Rover V8, Chev blocks, Ford V8s etc.. I thought a working scale engine would be quite an achievement.

Another amazing feat of scaling unbelievability (is that a word, Hitch?), is a fully working 1:10 scale Ferrari (can't remember what model) with a working flat 12, even clutch etc!! You need to dip the clutch to engage a gear!!! The whole car works exactly like the real mccoy, and even sounds like a Ferrari should!! I'll have a look for it and post it if I find it. It was featured on Jeremy Clarkson's Amazing Machines series from around the world..

[Blackbird]

Motu: picture 2 in the link with the opposed pistons.... is that from the British Deltic diesel loco in the 60's? I remember that as a World first and saw the loco itself when I was a kid.

B/J: I think I've still got that incredible Ferrari on a video somewhere. It was on the same programme as a scale Concorde which was amazing too.

[Motu]

Loaded is a goddamn legend.
He's talking about visiting our fair shores soon...

Fuck Loaded!.......y...y...you're kiddin....aren't you??

[Jackrat]

Little story about here.
A bloke I knew that lived in Otara had a BSA A65 engine sitting in the corner of his lounge room.All polished up an looking real neat,but no internals.
A thief by the name of "Dino" broke in an stole it.
Then this dumb shit sold it to a Black Power member,telling him it was a runner.Said BP member wasn't very happy when he found out the thing was hollow.In the resulting beating Dino lost an eye.
Poetic justice :rofl:

[Pixie]

Ain't got the one I've always wanted to see. A one stroke engine.

Take an opposed piston design. Convert it to a swashplate and put a second piston head on the end of each piston. Now you have three bores, two pistons, four piston heads, and a power stroke on every stroke. The two pistons just get banged back and forth with a combustion at the end of each stroke. (A combustion chamber at left and right like a convention flat twin, and a "double" combustion chamber in the middle, serving the inner end of each piston - ie like a conventional opposed piston design (except that there isn't any such thing so it can't be conventional, but you know what I mean)

It's actually quite simple if you just think about it.

They did something similar with steam engines. I like steam.

EDIT: Charging has to be crankcase pressurised like a two stroke of course. So it's a one stroke two stroke
I tried to visualise that and suffered a stroke

[Motu]

Little story about here.
A bloke I knew that lived in Otara had a BSA A65 engine sitting in the corner of his lounge room.All polished up an looking real neat,but no internals.
A thief by the name of "Dino" broke in an stole it.
Then this dumb shit sold it to a Black Power member,telling him it was a runner.Said BP member wasn't very happy when he found out the thing was hollow.In the resulting beating Dino lost an eye.
Poetic justice :rofl:

Dino must of been a thicko alright,those things are bloody heavy! When I bought my A65 motor I went to see the bike as a burnt out wreck,the motor was fine,just covered in black soot and extingishure crap.It was downstairs in one of those flash Henderson brick and tiles made in the 60s,the guys mother was there, it all seemed cool - but when I went around in my car to pick it up,mother was nowhere to be seen,the place was full of Headhunters! I had to put it in the boot myself,but went home to New Lynn via Clevedon!

Where I was staying in Melbourne we has a Guzzi 250 4cyl sitting on the hearth - and my mate was building a Guzzi Convert he bought new in the crate,then set about gold plating it....half way through his project gold prices went through the roof and his job went out the window.The motor sat in the lounge with all covers and screw gold plated,just part of the furniture.

[Jackrat]

Dino must of been a thicko alright,those things are bloody heavy! When I bought my A65 motor I went to see the bike as a burnt out wreck,the motor was fine,just covered in black soot and extingishure crap.It was downstairs in one of those flash Henderson brick and tiles made in the 60s,the guys mother was there, it all seemed cool - but when I went around in my car to pick it up,mother was nowhere to be seen,the place was full of Headhunters! I had to put it in the boot myself,but went home to New Lynn via Clevedon!

Where I was staying in Melbourne we has a Guzzi 250 4cyl sitting on the hearth - and my mate was building a Guzzi Convert he bought new in the crate,then set about gold plating it....half way through his project gold prices went through the roof and his job went out the window.The motor sat in the lounge with all covers and screw gold plated,just part of the furniture.
he he he,I was kinda waiting for somebody to say "I know a Dino with one eye"
He must still be out there somewhere aye!!

[Oscar]

Fuck Loaded!.......y...y...you're kiddin....aren't you??

Nope.
In 2006 - I've invited him to the Oscaroosa...

[pete376403]

The Art of Engine (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80568&page=1&pp=15)

This thread has been going on for some time,and it's just heaven for those who love engines....real art indead.
What a brilliant timewaster! However there were a couple of engines missing - the Honda RC174 (I know the 5 cylinder is there, but not the 6) and the 30 cylinder Chrysler A57 radial that powered the Sherman tank - essentially 5 side valve 6's on a common crankshaft.

The pic of the Honda is from the Two Wheels article about the replicas built by George Beale. And yes that is a credit card used for size reference

[Motu]

I see no sherman tank engine alright,but I've seen it posted on the ADV site before,some of the members are real engine guys....that was some motor,but sidevalves??? The Lycoming XR7755 is there though as an also ran.

I see a working drawing of a Gnome up now,showing the motor rotating and valves opening.As a side note to the Gnome and an earlier thread of mine - Ralph Watson has seen the rotary engine he hand built himself running,an effort from his friends to finish his last project.

[Ixion]

[QUOTE=Motu]I see no sherman tank engine alright,but I've seen it posted on the ADV site before,some of the members are real engine guys....that was some motor,but sidevalves??? The Lycoming XR7755 is there though as an also ran.

../QUOTE]

Woz wrong wiv side valves. Like sidevalves. Nice and simple. Cuts out lotsa stuff what goes up and down and up and down and up and down an....., yeah, well, they're simpler, ain't they.

[pete376403]

Using exisiting designs and tooling meant Chrysler could build the tank motor quickly and cheaply. I'd like to know how quickly it went from concept to production but I'd guess it was pretty fast. It made adequate power (every web site sez 425HP@2850 RPM. Pool gas of the day was low octane, so the main disadvantage of sidies (low compression) wasn't an issue.
Who cares if they are a turd to work on? Worn engines probably just got pulled out and scrapped.

[pete376403]

[QUOTE=Ixion
Woz wrong wiv side valves. Like sidevalves. Nice and simple. Cuts out lotsa stuff what goes up and down and up and down and up and down an....., yeah, well, they're simpler, ain't they.[/QUOTE]
Cycle magazine once did a joke article on a "British World Beater" engine - Widely splayed double overhead cams with bucket followers bearing on pushrods going down to rockers in the crankcase that lifted side valves. The overhead cams for the marketing credo, the pushrods to make it easy for t'lads in assembly and the sidevalves to use up all the stock of prewar parts. The drawing looked fantastic

[Motu]

I like sidevalves I do - had me an M20 for years,really nice motor.In Tuning For Speed Phil Irving talks about a sidevalve 250 JAP that revs to 8,000rpm.The Yanks were the ones to get performance out of flatheads,they had to,and the old Ford V8 was maybe one of the most worked upon motors ever,till the small block Chev.The flattrackers were allowd to have 750 sidevalves competing against 500cc OHV motors...just to keep Harley in the game,and they took the porting,valves and cyl heads to extreme levels,really wierd stuff to look at.

[Ixion]

I like sidevalves I do - had me an M20 for years,really nice motor.In Tuning For Speed Phil Irving talks about a sidevalve 250 JAP that revs to 8,000rpm.The Yanks were the ones to get performance out of flatheads,they had to,and the old Ford V8 was maybe one of the most worked upon motors ever,till the small block Chev.The flattrackers were allowd to have 750 sidevalves competing against 500cc OHV motors...just to keep Harley in the game,and they took the porting,valves and cyl heads to extreme levels,really wierd stuff to look at.

See, the thing is sidevalves became unfashionable because at high revs you can't get the same power. And for competition, it's power at high revs that matters.

But in ordinary riding (not talking sprot bike riders here), one doesn't use high revs.Who is going to go riding around normally revving up to the red line ?I hardly ever use more than half revs - change up at 4000 , down at 2000.
OK, that;s highish for a side valve, but not beyond what they can do. And I only need to rev so high because modern motors have no bottom end torque.
And at low revs side valves are actually better.

It's like multi carbs. Everyone lusted after the Bonnie and the A65 Lightning. But, for ordinary riding (the sort we all do - except sprot bikers) the extra carb doesn't do anything - it's only good at high revs. So for communting and touring the Thunderbolt and Tiger 110 were better.

/me wants a side valve.

Now, if one were to SUPERCHARGE a side valve ! :yes: :Punk:

(Still haven't heard anyone explain to me why diesels need overhead cams )

[Motu]

The M20 was like a diesel,it'd rev out to around 4000rpm,but you knew you were doing it - on a hill the revs would drop pretty quickly to where ever max torque was and just stay there,it would ''hang on'' like a diesel.

I hate multi carbs,give me a single carb any day - I was going to fit a twin choke Delorto to the wife's Trident if she kept it,those triple carbs made me wild! I fitted a 1/4 SU to a few Triumphs and even my Norton 600 SS - easy to start,steady idle,100mpg and performance not far off twin Amals.

OHC diesels are an abomination,fit only for crap like Pajeros!

[pete376403]

OHC would make sense in a very large (ie locomotive / marine ) diesel, just on account of the size and weight of the pushrods, rockers, etc. In the small automotive diesels maybe they use OHC because there is parts interchange with similar size petrol engines? Dunno, the last diesels I worked on were Caterpillars about 30 years ago.

And with sidevalves there is a compression limit you can't get past plus you end up with a long thin rotten shaped combustion chamber which is mostly over the top pf the valves, not the piston. The Harley KR dirt tracker had hit this limit, so the rule change allowing OHV/OHC 750s came just in time for them.