Ducati 1199 Panigale - another Italian beauty!

[MD]

Wish we got the UK MCNews in our newstands. They do seem to be first with any breaking news/models and first tests.

Beautiful looking bike. Yeah the mirror storks are a bit looong but the rest is fantastic.

[steve_t]

Sex! Longer mirror stalks might make the mirrors actually usable :2thumbsup

[nudemetalz]

:drool: :drool: :drool:

[imdying]

Definitely an interesting motorcycle, looks a bit confused though. Weird that the 999 should turn out to be not that bad after all. The 916-1098-1199 evolution looks like a giant with a heat gun has had his way and fuck all else. The new dash is super cool though.

[Sable]

I'd ride it

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bet it does good wheelies.

[Phreak]

Bet it does good wheelies.

Lol you'd hope so, for the price!

I still prefer the look of the 1198 nose...

[bogan]

Thread title is wrong you fucking muppet :bleh:

Damn thats a beautiful bike! Love the exhaust and SSSA, best looking fully faired bike of the last 20 years I reckon.

[MD]

Thread title is wrong you fucking muppet :bleh:

Damn thats a beautiful bike! Love the exhaust and SSSA, best looking fully faired bike of the last 20 years I reckon.

Someone with no bloody idea how and when to use a full stop, comma and apostrophe shouldn't be critiquing others typos.

MODs. Please correct the name in title to read Panigale, before someone else with anger mangement problems starts crying.

[White trash]

Looks like the spaghetti slurpers have nicked a shitload of inspiration from Buell if you ask me.

[nodrog]

Bet it does good wheelies.

I'll post a video when it turns up.

[bogan]

Someone with no bloody idea how and when to use a full stop, comma and apostrophe shouldn't be critiquing others typos.

MODs. Please correct the name in title to read Panigale before someone else with anger mangement problems starts crying.

:lol: One is less likely to search for a bit of punctuation than for the correct name of a bike though, you'd have to agree. Also, FYI, fucking muppet isn't a derogatory term, it's just for the lols.

Lots of accesories for it too, tricolor paint looks very nice too :drool:

[steve_t]

Preview vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiIcqZoQQwg

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVKLl-ZBUwg

[CHOPPA]

Looks cool! They run the ducati moto gp style frame aye?? :innocent:

[johan]

Looks like the fancy models will have electronic suspension as OEM.

250273

250274

[steve_t]

Looks cool! They run the ducati moto gp style frame aye?? :innocent:

It's got the no-frame frame ;)

[MD]

:lol: One is less likely to search for a bit of punctuation than for the correct name of a bike though, you'd have to agree. Also, FYI, fucking muppet isn't a derogatory term, it's just for the lols.

Lots of accesories for it too, tricolor paint looks very nice too :drool:

Fair enough. Now that I see how wrong I got the name it's going to drive me nuts. It's like having a big boil on the end of your nose. No matter how hard you try to look away or ignore it. It's all you can see

Mods - fix it!

[blackdog]

:lol: One is less likely to search for a bit of punctuation than for the correct name of a bike though, you'd have to agree. Also, FYI, fucking muppet isn't a derogatory term, it's just for the lols.

Lots of accesories for it too, tricolor paint looks very nice too :drool:

Tricolore. Fucking muppet.

[nzspokes]

Looks like a Magnelli.

[LBD]

GGgaaaarrrrgggghhhhh Noooooo....not another Tricolore!!!!!

[Owl]

Looks like the spaghetti slurpers have nicked a shitload of inspiration from Buell if you ask me.

We didn't!:no:

[SPman]

Will need to see one in the flesh to decide....wait til they are released out here....within a few days there should be one out our way....

[Brett]

I really like it. Anyone released the price yet? Suspect it will be circa the Desmosedici RR??

[Brett]

I take my previous price guess back, looks to be around $50-$60k for the top of the line model.

[LBD]

http://www.1199panigale.ducati.com/en/?__utma=1.171651642.1320677486.1321024397.13211097 20.4&__utmb=1.1.10.1321109720&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1321109720.4.2.utmcsr=monster.ducati.com| utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=-&__utmk=142275634#

here it is....

[ajturbo]

Looks like the spaghetti slurpers have nicked a shitload of inspiration from Buell if you ask me.


glad you noticed that too

[codgyoleracer]

I like it - A LOT :-) , would be awesome to race something like that in New Zealand even though its a bit of a left-field thing to do, - its nice being different. ( i see they stole Aprilas's bum)

[Brett]

I like it - A LOT :-) , would be awesome to race something like that in New Zealand even though its a bit of a left-field thing to do, - its nice being different. ( i see they stole Aprilas's bum)

I'm with you...I really dig that bike. Nicest bike designed by Duc yet in my opinion.

[Mental Trousers]

Best looking Ducati yet if you ask me.

It's a bit Industrial and more purposeful/focussed looking than previous Duc's. The Moto GP style tail piece helps a lot.

The 1198 and 999 both look a bit bloated and dated compared to the Panigale.

http://motorplush.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2012-Ducati-Panigale-1199-white-background-right-side-22-555x415.jpg
http://www.mivv.it/public/FOTO_SUONO_resize/1198_UD021L7_a.jpg
http://motorcycle-web.com/ducati/999r_2004/2004-Ducati999Rb.jpg

[LBD]

I think relocating the seat warmer was one ofthe better moves...

Yes I like it lots....Now all I need to do is get a good trade up price....and convince her....

[imdying]

Best looking Ducati yet if you ask me.About time they caught up with Honda's mass centralisation ethos :D The pipe, tail section, snub nose, packed in tighter than a nuns... 08 Blade all over it :rolleyes:

[misterO]

Yep- Ducati borrowed the underseat tailpipe idea from the Honda NR750 for the 916, and now they nick the CBR's low slung bits and pieces (looks 10x better than the Honda's, though).

[Mental Trousers]

Honda aren't the first to go that way. Everyone in MotoGP has been at that shit for quite a while now.

Besides, Ducati made it look good, not like the CBR.

[Drew]

Looks like the fancy models will have electronic suspension as OEM.



250274

Wonder how the shock will like being mounted to the motor and getting nice and warm like.

[Blackflagged]

Quite a few changes to the Motor. No more belts,V rotated back , radical bore stroke ratio,200 rear section tyre,cast alloy frame, wet clutch (Boring) , no longer dry like Casey Stoners Honda.:-) and gone the sweet sound!

http://ashonbikes.com/content/ducati-1199-panigale-engine

[Drew]

Not needing belts done every five minutes will be a selling point for some I think. But those Desmodromic lifters will likely still need set more often than a normal bike.

Wet clutch, thank Christ!

[imdying]

Besides, Ducati made it look goodThat's the thing, they haven't, that is one fugly motorcycle. At least it's an exotic ugly instead of the plastic Japanese looking 1098 I guess.

I like that we're getting a better look at the rear head like we did with the 999, but there's not much else pretty about it.

The tail isn't too bad, but I can't figure out why it's so thick? Why the try-hard form over function?

The x-wing nose treatment is totally unforgivable though, the lead designer should take a bullet for that one.

[Mental Trousers]

Besides, Ducati made it look goodThat's the thing, they haven't, that is one fugly motorcycle. At least it's an exotic ugly instead of the plastic Japanese looking 1098 I guess.

I like that we're getting a better look at the rear head like we did with the 999, but there's not much else pretty about it.

The tail isn't too bad, but I can't figure out why it's so thick? Why the try-hard form over function?

The x-wing nose treatment is totally unforgivable though, the lead designer should take a bullet for that one.

With the proper treatment (removing the mirrors, lights and number plate holder) it looks quite different. Although I think it looks a hell of a lot more like a CBR at the front after that :facepalm:

Good to see they're starting to take proper advantage of the Desmo system. Without valve springs it can do much higher revs, although with such an over-square combustion chamber I would've thought they'd use a twin spark system of some sort. The automatic decompressor sounds very handy. Might even be able to bump start the things if you're in a tight spot.

http://www.racerzone.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/latest-Ducati-1199-Panigale.jpg

[imdying]

With the proper treatment (removing the mirrors, lights and number plate holder) it looks quite different. Although I think it looks a hell of a lot more like a CBR at the front after that :facepalm:Not to mention the tail from even older blades... Nice to see they've retained the headlight being half the inlet ducts, thought that was a nice touch on the 1098.

[codgyoleracer]

http://www.gizmag.com/ducati--new-frame-design-panigale-1199/19990/picture/143693/
http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/ducati-panigale-1199-48.jpgSomething different

[Mental Trousers]

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/ducati-panigale-1199-50.jpg

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/ducati-panigale-1199-49.jpg

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/ducati-panigale-1199.jpg

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/ducati-panigale-1199-51.jpg

[steve_t]

Someone's good work with photoshop

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/rod1965_2006/1199SPS.jpg

http://photos.lashmedia.com/photos/i-nDxq7tB/0/L/i-nDxq7tB-L.jpg

http://photos.lashmedia.com/photos/i-kkp53vV/0/L/i-kkp53vV-L.jpg

[steve_t]

Prices

1199 Panigale ABS $33,990*
1199 Panigale S ABS $42,990*
1199 Panigale S Tricolore ABS $49,990*



Price for Aussie

1199 Panigale ABS $26,990*
1199 Panigale S ABS $33,990*
1199 Panigale S Tricolore ABS $39,990*

[ducatilover]

Wow......
That is all.

[imdying]

That's cheap enough! Hope they do a red and white version, that little stripe sure peps it up. Definitely better looking from the left side too.

What's the point of the scoops in the tail? :confused:

[LBD]

That's cheap enough! Hope they do a red and white version, that little stripe sure peps it up. Definitely better looking from the left side too.

What's the point of the scoops in the tail? :confused:

But $7k for a paint job and Muffler...I would expect the full 70mm exhaust and race ecm for that.

[wayne]

looks like there might be one on the track next year .....lol
williams and sloan, and who knows

[bogan]

What's the point of the scoops in the tail? :confused:

Less drag if you got a really small arse? or maybe less drag when you're off the seat for cornering?

[wayne]

when are they due in nz ?

[Adam_B]

when are they due in nz ?

About June for the first batch. All spoken for as far as I know.

[NZsarge]

Looks like the spaghetti slurpers have nicked a shitload of inspiration from Buell if you ask me.

Yeah well... Whatever the case can't say i'm liking the new Ducati Superbike to look at, lots of lovely components cobbled together into an odd looking bike but as usual it's a matter of ones personal taste. I thought the new Tuono was pretty average looking going by photo's too but having seen one in the flesh now it looks pretty nice I must say but it's never going to make it onto my top ten of good looking bikes but i'd ride one.. :D

[Drew]

The bike is very nice to look at, and has some stuff that Ducati should have been doing for a long time. Wet clutch, chain driven cams. But why for the love of God, have they used the frameless system that is such a fuckin balls up on their moto GP bike? If Rossi can't feel the front end, what bloody chance do mere mortals have?

Good luck to next years WSB team, they're gonna need it I think.

[johan]

Check out the pix, it looks like the front end is attached to the heads with four bolts.
How well will it crash?

It looks like you can inspect the heads without splitting the bike in two?

251924

251928

[raziel1983]

Front looks like a cross between the the 08 Blade and a 1198...that has had a stroke.

[Drew]

Check out the pix, it looks like the front end is attached to the heads with four bolts.
How well will it crash?

It looks like you can inspect the heads without splitting the bike in two?



Yeah, the rocker covers look to come off with the frame still in place. With the frame that way it might even be quite easy. Mind you, Ducati have a shit of a habit of mounting batteries, electrics, and anything else in the dumbest place possible.

[Mental Trousers]

The bike is very nice to look at, and has some stuff that Ducati should have been doing for a long time. Wet clutch, chain driven cams. But why for the love of God, have they used the frameless system that is such a fuckin balls up on their moto GP bike? If Rossi can't feel the front end, what bloody chance do mere mortals have?

Good luck to next years WSB team, they're gonna need it I think.

It's only at the very highest level that they're having problems (and it seems the problem is actually the engine layout). Troy Bayliss got on the thing is going faster than he ever did on the previous bikes. For 99.9% of the population this bike's capabilities (like most) lie way beyond the riders.

[Drew]

It's only at the very highest level that they're having problems (and it seems the problem is actually the engine layout). Troy Bayliss got on the thing is going faster than he ever did on the previous bikes. For 99.9% of the population this bike's capabilities (like most) lie way beyond the riders.

Troy who? When Carlos goes faster on it, I'll believe it's better.

So, the bike is flawed, but since you have to be really fuckin good to find it, don't worry about it? Not ideal in my book.

[imdying]

So, the bike is flawed, but since you have to be really fuckin good to find it, don't worry about it? Not ideal in my book.No, the MotoGP bikes were only flawed running at 100% MotoGP pace. This bike is not a MotoGP bike, and it won't run anywhere near a MotoGP pace.

You can't write the entire concept off because they couldn't get one particular bike to run competitively at the highest level... if that were the case Triumph should have never built the 675 as look at how much of a piece of shite the Cube was.

[Drew]

No, the MotoGP bikes were only flawed running at 100% MotoGP pace. This bike is not a MotoGP bike, and it won't run anywhere near a MotoGP pace.

You can't write the entire concept off because they couldn't get one particular bike to run competitively at the highest level... if that were the case Triumph should have never built the 675 as look at how much of a piece of shite the Cube was.

It's funny, Ducati stick with the trellis frame for so long. Saying that because it is less rigid, yet stable, they offer more feel than anything else. Then they do away with it on their GP bike, and now that they don't have the power advantage get their collective arse handed to them due to a complete lack of feel. And now that they are on top of the superbike heap, they have done away with the trellis frame there too.

I'm not saying the bike is not awesome, I am questioning why they have gone this route with a proven flawed system.

And by the way, a lack of feel is well easily found on any bike. You do not have to run at GP pace to notice it.

[imdying]

I am questioning why they have gone this route with a proven flawed system.I'm not sure either. But, I'm picking it's due to the length of time required to push a product to market, and not knowing just how badly the frameless concept was going to do in the MotoGP. I'd wager that if they could have put a trellis frame in before launch they would've. But on the other hand, boy does it give them a point of differentiation to the Jap bikes.


And by the way, a lack of feel is well easily found on any bike. You do not have to run at GP pace to notice it.Totally agree. I have a mate who is well in love with his old sportsbike... as far as he's concerned it has more ability than him, so it's all he needs and thus has no interest in trying a later model bike. One day he'll get on a new model and realise just how much new chassis goodness he's missing out on.

[Drew]

I'm not sure either. But, I'm picking it's due to the length of time required to push a product to market, and not knowing just how badly the frameless concept was going to do in the MotoGP. I'd wager that if they could have put a trellis frame in before launch they would've. But on the other hand, boy does it give them a point of differentiation to the Jap bikes.Yeah, I figured the same thing to be honest.

[slowpoke]

I dunno, I'm not a fan of the looks of the new bike, but I like the concept. Looks-wise it's a bit of nothing-ness really, not pretty, not ugly just..........I dunno, it just doesn't inspire anything at all really.

But I reckon the concept is awesome. When I look at the Panigale in the nuddies for some reason I think of the Britten, and how John Britten would have applied a conventional front end to his frame-less creation.

Flawed concept? I don't thinks so, more like flawed application, and then at a level only a handful of riders could ever experience, and on a completely different bike. Change the engine layout, weight, weight distribution, tyres, construction methods yada yada and there's bugger all to compare. Remember when the 999 came out and everyone in WSB intitially struggled? Chili leading the championship on his 998.5 after kicking the 999 to the kerb because of no front end feel? Yet the 999 went on to become the winningest Ducati Superbike ever once they figured out which brace to leave out of the frame.

So why ditch the trellis frame? Amongst other things for that 20hp hike! Apparently the trellis frame restricts the airbox options and costs mumbo.

To me the ally beam frame seems a lil' defeatist; if you wanna go as fast as everyone else do exactly what they are doing. If you wanna go faster you have to do things a lil' different. I'm hoping they use the production based racers (if/when they return to WSB) to get a better handle on the frameless concept and it get's another guernsey down the track (in an alternate reality where GFC's don't exists and MotoGP continues, lol). Or they pulled out of WSB because they know they're new bike is porked...........but I hope not.

[imdying]

Good thoughts, cheers for sharing.

[onearmedbandit]

Totally agree. I have a mate who is well in love with his old sportsbike... as far as he's concerned it has more ability than him, so it's all he needs and thus has no interest in trying a later model bike. One day he'll get on a new model and realise just how much new chassis goodness he's missing out on.

It ain't that old, ok coming up on 10yrs. And I'm in no doubt that new chassis goodness would be impressive. However, if what I've got (remember it isn't quite standard, ohlins rear, racetech front, brembo calipers/rotors) can provide more than I need on the road and keep up with ease with the pace that other riders ride at on the road then that's fine and dandy for me.

It's not like the K1/2 was a dog when it arrived on the scene. And I've since improved on the original recipe. I'd need to spend $17k plus my bike to get onto a new thou, and I don't see that $17k really improving my riding experience that much. Remember I'm not out there to be the quickest, my bike represents to me more than just a collection of plastic and metal, it's a piece of me. On that issue we are indeed different.

Now if I was to spend that $17k on my bike...........I'm sure you can understand that.

[imdying]

I don't see that $17k really improving my riding experience that much.1) Of course you don't; without trying others you've no reference point inside of the last 10 years to make the comparison with.
2) $17k? The number best sports bike of the last 4 years (lets face it, nothing of note has changed on it since 08) starts at $12000 on trademe, less your own bike assuming you were to sell it.

[onearmedbandit]

1) Of course you don't; without trying others you've no reference point inside of the last 10 years to make the comparison with.

And for that matter neither have you, no disrespect intended. You haven't ridden my bike any further than 10km, and when I first got it. Where is your reference point?


2) $17k? The number best sports bike of the last 4 years (lets face it, nothing of note has changed on it since 08) starts at $12000 on trademe, less your own bike assuming you were to sell it.

Granted, I could go second hand and save a lot more money, a very fair point. But once again, it's not something I need right now. I love the way my bike looks, both you and I have invested a lot of time into it, I've dropped a fair chunk of money into it (not quite like your RGV), it handles superbly, it brakes well enough to lift the back wheel, and it's got more than enough power for my needs. Once again I'd rather drop the extra money into my bike.

[imdying]

And for that matter neither have you, no disrespect intended. You haven't ridden my bike any further than 10km, and when I first got it. Where is your reference point?I've ridden bikes of varying ages, and, in general, every aspect has improved relative to their age.


Granted, I could go second hand and save a lot more money, a very fair point. But once again, it's not something I need right now. I love the way my bike looks, both you and I have invested a lot of time into it, I've dropped a fair chunk of money into it (not quite like your RGV), it handles superbly, it brakes well enough to lift the back wheel, and it's got more than enough power for my needs. Once again I'd rather drop the extra money into my bike.You need to go back to my original post and reread it. The only person talking about spending money, is you.

[onearmedbandit]

I've ridden bikes of varying ages, and, in general, every aspect has improved relative to their age.

I'm not arguing that at all. What I'm arguing is that there is only so much we can utilise. And my bike allows me to utilise as much on the road as any other rider that I'm interested in riding with.


You need to go back to my original post and reread it. The only person talking about spending money, is you.

For sure, you only said that I would need to ride one to appreciate the improvements, however that leads to me updating my bike (surely if it was that much of an improvement I would not want to go back to my K2) with a newer model, like you yourself suggested I could do for $12k excluding selling my bike (see even you were talking about spending money ;)). All I'm saying is instead of spending that $12k on a newer bike I could get more enjoyment from spending $12k on my bike.

Do you understand my point yet? I'll make it clear. My bike does everything for me that I need.

[imdying]

I'm not arguing that at all. What I'm arguing is that there is only so much we can utilise. And my bike allows me to utilise as much on the road as any other rider that I'm interested in riding with.The speed limit isn't going to change any more, so max utilisation isn't the key, it's the delivery.


All I'm saying is instead of spending that $12k on a newer bike I could get more enjoyment from spending $12k on my bike.And all I'm saying is that is a baseless assumption.

[onearmedbandit]

And all I'm saying is that is a baseless assumption.

Nope. I could go buy another cookie-cutter thou, or one that maybe has had similar work done to it as mine. But neither would give me the satisfaction I'd get from having gone through the journey I have with this bike, nor the fun I'd have spending more time and money on it.

Why do you have an RGV that owes you over $20k? Why do you have an SV1000 that owes you similar? Don't answer, I already know why.

Don't get me wrong, I'll buy a new(er) bike at some stage, but not for riding faster or easier on the road. I'll buy it because I'll retire the K2.


The speed limit isn't going to change any more, so max utilisation isn't the key, it's the delivery.


So please tell me what is wrong with my bike in the 'delivery'? I'm very interested. Also, regarding the speed limit, come on. We both know how we ride. So you can hop out from under the bridge.

[imdying]

So please tell me what is wrong with my bike in the 'delivery'?You're stuck in absolutes still.

[onearmedbandit]

You're stuck in absolutes still.

No, I'm stuck dealing with a troll. I've said my piece, that's all folks.

[imdying]

Fair enough. I still maintain that there are shades of gray; there doesn't need to be anything at all wrong with somebodies current bike for them to enjoy trying the new ones. Decisions are based on the wisdom born of experiences.

[Drew]

1) Of course you don't; without trying others you've no reference point inside of the last 10 years to make the comparison with.
2) $17k? The number best sports bike of the last 4 years (lets face it, nothing of note has changed on it since 08) starts at $12000 on trademe, less your own bike assuming you were to sell it.

Bwahahaha, the "old bike" you're referring to is a K1/2 gixxer thou.

Perhaps one of the best road bikes made...TO DATE!

I have ridden one, think I clocked up about ten thousand k's on the one I owned. I've also spent a considerable amount of time on later models including the k6 superbike I raced. There is NO lack of feel from that front end, nor has there been any remarkable geometry changes to the front end since it came out.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, and qualified to do so, that there is little point in upgrading from a K2 at the moment. That said, there isn't a motor on the market that compares to a K5/6 gixxer thou, but the ride isn't as good, and the bike is harder to punt.

[imdying]

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, and qualified to do soYou probably would know, you've tried others to give you a basis for comparison, and that's the point... nothing to do with the actual capabilities themselves :msn-wink:

[MD]

The first launch reviews are out (MCH & Visordown sites)

Sounds like the performance is going to match the great looks.

[sil3nt]

The first launch reviews are out (MCH & Visordown sites)

Sounds like the performance is going to match the great looks.What is MCH? I read the Visordown review the other day. Its nice to dream.

*edit*
Oh MCN. Not quite a full review yet.

[SimJen]

New test from Ash on bikes: http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/ducati-1199-panigale-s

Sounds the absolute business, now just have to sell the wife and kids to fund one!

[Drew]

Why do people read magazine write ups anyway? None of them have had the balls to bag a shitter for what it is, in decades.

Christ, in most cases they rave about the BT016's that come OE on heaps of Jap bikes, and those tyres are absolutely the shittiest sports bike rubber I've ever ridden.

Disclaimer, the BT016's purchased off the shelf are different tyres I'm told.

[swamy]

Would be interesting see what impact the 1199 will have on the 1198 re-sale value. The new price for both (1199 and 1198) base models is between 32 - 34k depending on the dealer.

[johan]

The 1199 sounds quite different from the 1198, high revs for a twin.
Has the rev limit moved from ~10k to ~12k?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMdaw0l54X4&feature=endscreen&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD9SPQz9WEs&feature=related

The orange light in the middle of the dash could be the traction control in action?

I never tried a 1x98 (or a 999 for that matter), but I'm very keen on this one!

[jrandom]

The 1199 is very pretty but may have fallen into the Buell trap of trying to be different rather than better. I hope someone buys one and tries beating Choppa's BMW on it.

imdying and onearmedbandit obviously have a complex relationship.

I've always wanted a bike with a K2 motor, MX bars and lots of leg room.

[Drew]

Would be interesting see what impact the 1199 will have on the 1198 re-sale value. The new price for both (1199 and 1198) base models is between 32 - 34k depending on the dealer.The second hand Ducati market is an expensive one. I think it's because the market is more heavily dealer controlled. Fewer of them go on trademe than any other bike, possibly because they are so expenxive new, that most people trade them than sell them.

[carbonhed]

Boy they're a tasty little treat aren't they? Still the temptation to take one out and return it complaining about a lack of front end feel is verrrrrry strong :laugh:

[codgyoleracer]

Good on ya Ducati for taking the punt on a truly all new design. All we need now is Honda to make the V5, Suzuki to make their V4 - anything over 160kg & under 190rwhp will be poo poo'd........ :-)