SMIDSYs - mostly avoidable, or a real risk? [Archive]

shrub

8th November 2011, 10:34

I was thinking about the whole SMIDSY debate, and I reckon they are almost entirely avoidable. I reckon the secret comes down to recognising 3 things:

1. Cars don't spontaneously turn or pull out. I have owned a hell of cars over the years, and none of them have ever spontaneously done anything - not turn, pull out or even burst into song. The only reason cars turn is because the driver wants to do some pretty specific things - go down a side street, change direction, grab a parking place, start a journey or finish a journey. Most or all of these actions have other actions leading up to them and can be pretty well predicted. A car that is slowing down or is stationary on the centre line across from a driveway or road is very likely to turn down said road, just as a car sitting at an intersection is almost certainly going to pull out and odds are good that a car on the side of the road with someone in the drivers seat and the engine running with the front wheels turned is probably going to pull out or do a U turn.

2. Car drivers are people and people hate confrontation. I have heard many a biker pronounce that they treat every other road user as a homicidal maniac with a hatred of motorcycles, but that's bollocks because if it were the case NOTHING you could do would keep you safe. I am convinced that car drivers really don't want to hit you because (a) you may get grumpy with them, (b) it will damage their car, (c) they could get into trouble with the Constables or (d) they could hurt you. If a car driver sees you coming towards them when they're planning to do something that could lead to a SMIDSY, then they will wait for you to go past before they do their thing.

3. Car drivers are easily distracted and have limited visibility. Because most cars have a stereo to listen to and controls to fiddle with, passengers to chat to and because car drivers like to eat tasty food and drink refreshing beverages on the road, they are often distracted so aren't paying attention like they should. Add to that blind spots (and I reckon NOBODY uses wing mirrors) and when it's cold or wet, fogged up windows; and the poor buggers are pretty well flying blind.

So the secret to dodging SMIDSYs is to recognise the things that indicate a car is about to change direction. Then it's a matter of making sure that the poor bugger behind the wheel sees you before he has to suffer the indignity of driving a Toyota Starlet with "Bobs Panelbeaters Loan Car" on the side. Personally I have a few strategies:

I try not to travel in groups of cars. If someone has been waiting to pull out, and they see a gap between 2 cars, they may decide to quickly whip between them before the discover that I was that gap. I also figure that if I am on my own a hundred metres in front of the traffic I am more likely to be noticed than if I had a cluttered background of cars and shit to distract the car driver.

If I see a car that is waiting at an intersection/at the centreline I ride straight at them. That means I swing across the lane and for a second or so I make sure that I am pointing directly at them because their survival mechanism cuts in "Oh crap, that bike is going to hit me... oh no, he's not". They have seen me because for a fraction of a second I was a potential threat so I took precedence over what the funny bastards on the radio were saying.

I change speed and move around in my lane because if I am moving relative to my surroundings I am more likely to be seen in the same way that a soldier will tell you that if they run straight at their enemy they are less likely to be seen than if they do the Hollywood thing and run from side to side. Plus it makes them think "WTF is he up to?" which is better than them thinking "hmmm, that is some tasty pie, I think I'll just pull out now"

And always have an escape route for when none of the above work.

Just my 2c worth.

Haggis2

8th November 2011, 10:54

SMIDSYs - mostly avoidable, or a real risk? - Both I reckon. Quite often you hear people say of accidents they were unavoidable or there was no where left to go. You make good points about making yourself visible, also a bit of forethought and planning can help to give you somewhere to go if someone makes a dumb move into your path.

kiwifruit

8th November 2011, 10:57

SMIDSYs - a real risk that is 99.9% avoidable

paturoa

8th November 2011, 11:19

You missed option 4.

The driver "looks" but doesn't see the bike and pulls out / whammo.

In this one the driver is looking for cars / buses and their brain doesn't register the bike because it isn't looking for one. The other is the casual look / not look properly where a quick casual glance isn't enough to see the bike in a blended background or register a moving object; and again their brain again doesn't "see" the bike.

You will have seen copious threads saying they saw the driver "looking" but still pulled straight out in front of them.

nudemetalz

8th November 2011, 11:20

Ride on the road like no-one can see you and everyone is out to hit you. Good chance of survival then.
The other thing is,...never assume. Assume they won't pull out, assume they can see me,....
That way I also believe SMIDSY is avoidable.

Voltaire

8th November 2011, 11:27

Most of my motorcycle accidents could have been prevented if I had taken the car. I use my bike for commuting a lot in Auckland....but its far more relaxing when driving my very large Yellow ex Courier VW van ....in fact I could not care less if some knob in his automatic Japanese shoebox wants to do a u turn in front of me or comes out of a side street without even slowing down or cutting me up on the motorway.

Spearfish

8th November 2011, 11:28

I would hate to think we don't contribute to the results of SMIDSY's but I'm not sure anything can be done about the SMIDSY itself.

Oddly my worst two SMIDSY's have been while stationary + it wouldn't have mattered if I was on two or in four wheels, so I'm not sure they count.

Katman

8th November 2011, 11:45

You will have seen copious threads saying they saw the driver "looking" but still pulled straight out in front of them.

That is when it is up to the rider to figure out whether they were just 'looked at' or whether they were 'seen'.

There is an intersection at the end of the road my workshop is on that I have people failing to give way to me with monotonous regularity.

It's not hard to figure out when you haven't been 'seen'.

shrub

8th November 2011, 12:04

You missed option 4.

The driver "looks" but doesn't see the bike and pulls out / whammo.

In this one the driver is looking for cars / buses and their brain doesn't register the bike because it isn't looking for one.

That's a pretty common argument, but I don't think people look for any particular type of vehicle - I don't. There are enough bikes and cyclists on the road for people to be sufficiently familiar to recognise them as being a hazard.

The other is the casual look / not look properly where a quick casual glance isn't enough to see the bike in a blended background or register a moving object; and again their brain again doesn't "see" the bike.

Precisely, that's why I do weird and unpredictable shit like move across my lane and head for the car, or why I try and avoid having a blended background by getting well ahead of the pack. If you have ever been hunting you will know you can be literally metres from an animal and not see it, but the moment it moves you see it instantly. The secret is to move relative to your background.

You will have seen copious threads saying they saw the driver "looking" but still pulled straight out in front of them

And that's probably why I put this thread up. I have been riding for all up around 20 years now if you take the years I didn't have a bike out of the equation, probably a total of 200,000 kms. I ride a hell of a lot in traffic - last year I did under 2000 kms in my car and just over 11000 kms on my bike, with most of them being in traffic. I would have probably one, maybe two instances a year when there is a near SMIDSY to the point where I need to brake hard or head for cover, and the last one was my fault because I was sitting in their blind spot. In fact I have never had an off that wasn't completely my own stupid fault (and I have had a few, believe me), so what's the difference between me and the poor buggers who suffer SMIDSYs? Looks? I'm pretty fucking ugly, but in my helmet nobody can tell. Luck? Then how come the biggest Lotto prize i have ever had was $20.00? Riding skill? I'm a very average rider and have been overtaken by postie bikes and I still talk about the time I actually pulled a wheelie. Visibility? I wear a black helmet, have a black bike and black gear.

Or could it be a few tricks I've figured out along the way?

shrub

8th November 2011, 12:07

That is when it is up to the rider to figure out whether they were just 'looked at' or whether they were 'seen'.

There is an intersection at the end of the road my workshop is on that I have people failing to give way to me with monotonous regularity.

It's not hard to figure out when you haven't been 'seen'.

And i'd add to that: It's up to the rider to make sure that they're seen, or at least do whatever they can to be seen.

steve_t

8th November 2011, 12:10

That's a pretty common argument, but I don't think people look for any particular type of vehicle - I don't. There are enough bikes and cyclists on the road for people to be sufficiently familiar to recognise them as being a hazard.

I actually do think people only look/glance for larger vehicles. I'm sure I used to. I now find myself semi-subconsciously arriving at intersections and thinking "are there any vehicles, including bikes, coming?"
There's that whole 'you often only see what you're looking for' thing which was proven with the video of the basketballers and either a guy in a gorilla suit or a guy with a bag with a $ sign on it.

SMOKEU

8th November 2011, 12:18

Spearfish

8th November 2011, 12:23

Best way to fix the problem is get more riders on the road and riding more often to normalise looking out for bikes rather than the occasional "Oh shit there's bike, lucky I spotted that one"
Swarm the bastards!!!

Voltaire

8th November 2011, 12:24

I'm almost tempted to start riding around with a high vis vest over my jacket. I always slow down when riding past intersections as well, even if I have the right of way. I usually ride at no more than 35-40kmh past a (green) traffic light if the traffic is busy.

I've started doing that commuting to work..I've noticed that lots of drivers on my commute also wear Hi Viz vests.....once something is that common its probably ignored. I bet when Stop and Give Way signs were first introduced people used to Stop and Give Way......:innocent:
I only wear it as my bikes black, my gear is black and the roads black...... the light is always on and I am home unlike most car drivers.:innocent:

shrub

8th November 2011, 12:49

I'm almost tempted to start riding around with a high vis vest over my jacket. I always slow down when riding past intersections as well, even if I have the right of way. I usually ride at no more than 35-40kmh past a (green) traffic light if the traffic is busy.

Personally I don't like hi-vis and will never wear one, especially here in ChCh. If you see someone wearing a high vis vest, what are they likely to be doing? The answer is they're probably digging a hole, standing by their HiLux or maybe riding a bicycle; and none of those options involve travelling down the road at 50 kmh, so if Johnny Pajero sees one he knows he can pull out safely.

shrub

8th November 2011, 13:01

I actually do think people only look/glance for larger vehicles. I'm sure I used to. I now find myself semi-subconsciously arriving at intersections and thinking "are there any vehicles, including bikes, coming?"
There's that whole 'you often only see what you're looking for' thing which was proven with the video of the basketballers and either a guy in a gorilla suit or a guy with a bag with a $ sign on it.

In that case it makes it even more important to use strategies to get the driver's attention. We're not going to be able to get however many million car drivers to "think bike", but there is no reason we can't get a hundred thousand bikers to learn to draw attention to themselves.

onearmedbandit

8th November 2011, 13:03

NPMISY is the answer.

Edbear

8th November 2011, 13:35

That's a pretty common argument, but I don't think people look for any particular type of vehicle - I don't. There are enough bikes and cyclists on the road for people to be sufficiently familiar to recognise them as being a hazard.

Precisely, that's why I do weird and unpredictable shit like move across my lane and head for the car, or why I try and avoid having a blended background by getting well ahead of the pack. If you have ever been hunting you will know you can be literally metres from an animal and not see it, but the moment it moves you see it instantly. The secret is to move relative to your background.

And that's probably why I put this thread up. I have been riding for all up around 20 years now if you take the years I didn't have a bike out of the equation, probably a total of 200,000 kms. I ride a hell of a lot in traffic - last year I did under 2000 kms in my car and just over 11000 kms on my bike, with most of them being in traffic. I would have probably one, maybe two instances a year when there is a near SMIDSY to the point where I need to brake hard or head for cover, and the last one was my fault because I was sitting in their blind spot. In fact I have never had an off that wasn't completely my own stupid fault (and I have had a few, believe me), so what's the difference between me and the poor buggers who suffer SMIDSYs? Looks? I'm pretty fucking ugly, but in my helmet nobody can tell. Luck? Then how come the biggest Lotto prize i have ever had was $20.00? Riding skill? I'm a very average rider and have been overtaken by postie bikes and I still talk about the time I actually pulled a wheelie. Visibility? I wear a black helmet, have a black bike and black gear.

Or could it be a few tricks I've figured out along the way?

Quite possibly, I rode for over 40 years until I broke my back last year and cannot ride again, and I've never had an accident or a ticket on a bike. Luck? Hey I broke my back in one of the strongest vans you can buy at less than 50km/h doing everything right. It was in the wet and I couldn't see the patch of oil in the rain... I'm not your average lucky guy... :bye:

NPMISY is the answer.

Sorry, my brain is fried at the moment, can you please translate? :wacko:

george formby

8th November 2011, 13:50

Hmmmm, I've been paying attention of late to Hi viz vests on riders & reckon in some cases, no screen, piss poor headlight & upright riding position they do make the rider more visible. The fluoro has caught my eye & I look to see what it is. That's a +1. On the other hand, good headlight, screen or crouched rider & I only notice the fluoro after I spot the bike. That's a -1.

I reckon avoiding SMIDSY's boils down to experience & training, adopting an attitude which keeps you alert, in space & pro-active on the road. It's impossible to anticipate everything but most of the time you can be aware of multiple threats & minimise the risk by putting yourself in the safest place at the safest speed. Expecting others to see you is the wrong attitude to road riding.

Maha

8th November 2011, 13:51

NPMISY
Sorry, my brain is fried at the moment, can you please translate? :wacko:

'No Problem Mate I saw You' is my guess.

steve_t

8th November 2011, 13:54

In that case it makes it even more important to use strategies to get the driver's attention. We're not going to be able to get however many million car drivers to "think bike", but there is no reason we can't get a hundred thousand bikers to learn to draw attention to themselves.

When I'm riding in the city, I'm regularly doing the SIAM manoeuvre - most cos 50km/h gets a bit boring :innocent: Sometimes I wonder if cagers might think I'm drunk etc but at least they see me ;)

george formby

8th November 2011, 14:09

Not wanting to get off topic but..... My new bike has an LED running light under the head light & it is the proverbial mutts nuts for sticking out..,. I m very impressed wid it.

onearmedbandit

8th November 2011, 14:25

Sorry, my brain is fried at the moment, can you please translate? :wacko:

'No Problem Mate I saw You' is my guess.

Maha is on the money.

avgas

8th November 2011, 14:28

Errrrr what is the acronym for when a motorbike hits something?
Been seeing that a lot. Even done it myself.

Usarka

8th November 2011, 14:32

IMHO they're mostly avoidable but to say 100% are avoidable is expecting superhuman judgement and sometimes ESP from all riders all of the time. 95% maybe.

Intersections especially on open roads for example. Like taking off in an aeroplane there's a point of no return where you have to commit. So if you're pretty sure that car's not going to pull out, there is still a chance that it will just at precisely the wrong second....

Using the aeroplane analogy though, pilots are prepared for engine failure on take off. They might still crash and die, but by being prepared for it they're giving themselves much better odds at walking away from an incident.

Errrrr what is the acronym for when a motorbike hits something?

MTWCATMHBOOTR

(my tyres were cold and there must have been oil on the road)

MSTRS

8th November 2011, 14:34

errrrr what is the acronym for when a motorbike hits something?
Been seeing that a lot. Even done it myself.

fubar.....

shrub

8th November 2011, 15:43

curly

8th November 2011, 15:51

When I'm riding in the city, I'm regularly doing the SIAM manoeuvre - most cos 50km/h gets a bit boring :innocent: Sometimes I wonder if cagers might think I'm drunk etc but at least they see me ;)

What's a SIAM manouevre?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139802-SMIDSY-Video?highlight=siam

Smidsy Identification Avoidance Manoeurve

scumdog

8th November 2011, 16:59

darkwolf

8th November 2011, 17:21

Did you add these to the bikes or did you they come with the bike? I am looking into this now, just better to be seen than sorry. Are you able to tell me where you got them if you did put them on yourself?

Mom

8th November 2011, 17:26

If you dont have your eyes peeled, and all of your sensors watching out for your own well being then the SMIDNSY scenario is a serious risk.

However, you cant ride along with a totally defensive attitude all the time, we ride bikes for the thrill and enjoyment, not to stress ourselves out about arseholes out to kill us. What we can do though, is be really aware of situations where potential SMIDNSY situations can occur and take extra care.

I am back (well will be once my stupid ankle is healed) commuting in traffic in the shitty city. I use all my spidey sense and a bit of aggression to get through my commute safely.

Aggression can be seen as "idiot" behaviour at times, but I prefer to get out of danger rather than allow danger to impact on me. Perhaps the only thing I would caution, though I do actually follow it myself, is to not allow the every other bastard is out to kill me metality to erode the pleasure of actually riding.

Katman

8th November 2011, 17:30

However, you cant ride along with a totally defensive attitude all the time, we ride bikes for the thrill and enjoyment, not to stress ourselves out about arseholes out to kill us.

If riding defensively is stressing you out Anne, you're doing it wrong.

Having spent considerable time riding in an environment that didn't allow for lapses in concentration I learned to treat riding defensively as a personal challenge that became almost like a game.

shrub

8th November 2011, 17:37

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139802-SMIDSY-Video?highlight=siam

Smidsy Identification Avoidance Manoeurve

Nice, I've been using a SIAM all this time. It's always good to have an acronym, but I'd rather call it a SCAB - Shrubs Collision Avoidance Behaviour.:2thumbsup

Mom

8th November 2011, 17:37

If riding defensively is stressing you out Anne, you're doing it wrong.

Where did I say I was stressing? I am not even riding at the moment, been off for 2 months now.

I dont stress, read my post again.

I said we can't go about our rides stressing about the bastards that are trying to kill us.

I also said if we dont have our eyes peeled, and all of our sensors watching out for our own well being then it is a real danger we are going to get taken out. I guess I meant riding defensivley :tugger:

martybabe

8th November 2011, 18:07

Not that I totally depend on them but me an Mrs SD (normajeane) have bright-as running lights mounted each side of the headlights, they spread 37 degrees so can be seen at an angle where a headlight would not. (When normajeane is behind me in s string of bikes I can always see her lights - other bikes melt into the back-ground especially on right-hand bends, their lights are almost not visible.

They are way bright - too bright to be used at night as they are just a big flare of light.

I've seen motorists stop suddenly in situations where I'm sure they would have pulled out on front of us.

I have no definitive proof of the following statement but.... I sometimes ride with my headlight on and sometimes with a pair of bright running lights on, I seem to have far less people ignoring my existence when the running lights are burning. Like you I've seen motorists hit the anchors big time at junctions when I'm approaching in running light mode and many more pull over to let me pass. I'd like to think it's the none standard pattern and brightness of the lights that makes them do a double take but in any event they do seem to get me noticed more. by the way they are well adjusted not burning out peoples retinas.

Why not use the running lights all the time? for some reason they are wired to the heated grip switch ? lights on, fry hands! work in progress;)

Oh yeah, running lights do not alter my defensive riding strategies at all but it is a welcome addition to my anti smidsy armour.

shrub

9th November 2011, 08:07

I said we can't go about our rides stressing about the bastards that are trying to kill us. :

The thing is none of them are trying to kill us - if they were KB would have a membership of 3 and the recent increases in ACC levies would have netted the government $9.54. Other road users don't want to have accidents, and if they stop and think about it, a SMIDSY is the last thing any of them want because it's dangerous driving causing injury or death. 5 years ago my 16 yo son had a SMIDSY on his way home from work when a young woman turned across his path. Fortunately he had minor injuries but was in hospital for about a week and she was devastated, and told me it was the worst day of her life. Her parents were on the phone to me every day checking on his progress and sent him chocolates, books, CD voucher etc. She was also fined $500, had to pay $1000 reparation, lost her license for 6 months and had to pay excess etc on insurance, so that SMIDSY probably cost her the best part of $2000 as well as her part time job (she was a student and worked night shift somewhere, so no license meant no getting to work).

I would say 99% of the population are either like that or pretty close to it - think how you would feel if you caused an accident that injured someone else?

That means we don't need to worry about changing them beyond perhaps reminding people that a SMIDSY is a very bad thing for everyone. To me that's a good thing because it means limiting SMIDSYs is something we can do best, and that's the point of this thread. Whether it's using a SIAM, a SCAB or my new one, CRAP - Clever Riding Avoids Prangs, we can all stack the odds in our favour on the road. As I said before, I cover a lot of urban Ks on my bike, yet I experience almost no potential SMIDSYs, and if you listen to the threads here it would seem they are almost a daily event for some people. Sure, there is bound to be some luck in it, and I know I cannot ever pat myself on the back and declare myself a SMIDSY free zone because when that happens I'm road kill.

But I can reduce the risks of a major cause of crashes substantially through a few simple techniques that have become habits, and in so doing make my motorcycling one hell of a lot safer which means I can enjoy my time behind the bars more.

And that's what it's all about.

ducatilover

9th November 2011, 08:32

Interesting thread and a good read.
SMIDSY's can be a real risk, like fucktards on blind corners (potentially avoidable), people pulling out as you go past (have nearly had that happen, thank God for 100hp + Pilot Powers)
But, as already said, many can be avoided. I've never b\felt stressed from defensive riding or staying very much aware of my surroundings and have never had a SMIDSY.
I had an eye opener a few years ago when a Honda Civic pulled out at me in Pahiatua, I was aware enough to avoid it, but, it was a wee bit close. The young twit had a car full of his/her mates and was obviously very distracted, should've seen it before I did.

Not wanting to get off topic but..... My new bike has an LED running light under the head light & it is the proverbial mutts nuts for sticking out..,. I m very impressed wid it.
I'm going to have running lights on my pride & joy when it's back on the road. Will have the indicators (LED) at the front, an LED strip or two in the headlight fairing. The rear LED tail light is impressively blinding also.

onearmedbandit

9th November 2011, 11:50

The day I turned 15 my father took me down to get my car licence (got my bike licence a couple weeks later), he wanted me to have my full in 12mths so put me on a defensive driving course. A big part of that course related around identifying possible risks when driving. During one part of the classes we had to watch a lot of videos and identify all the the possible hazards, so far I had been smoking the course but even I failed the first video. For the life of me I couldn't find the one last area of hazards in the video.

There were joggers, dogs, sun glare, parked cars, cyclists, oncoming traffic, power poles, gutters, driveways etc etc etc, but we were told to look at the power poles again. While I had identified them as being a hazard, I hadn't identified all the reasons why. We were asked what about the poles falling over in our path, which we dismissed by saying 'what are the chances of that happening?'. The instructor then told us no matter how small the chance of something happening was, it was still a real risk.

That was 21yrs ago and that piece of advice has stayed with me ever since, along with other gems I was taught. No I don't ride watching out for falling power poles, but I do ride aware that absolutely anything can be a hazard, and that the only one in control of how they are dealt with is me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely no saint (if you could see my licence history you'd know that, and riding too fast took the use of my left arm along with other injuries I carry today) but despite the amount of riding I do I too have very few SMIDSY events, solely due to the fact I'm aware of what's going on around me.

Banditbandit

9th November 2011, 11:59

Damm cages .. Just about got taken out twice .. Two cars at an intersection yesterday - One today .. all three would have said "SMIDSY" ... fuckers didn't look or didn't care ...

Yesterday I was following as big fucking Remuera Tractor ... not too close . plenty of visibility ... tractor turns left ... I'm going straight ahead ... two cars at the intersection .. the one turning right starts to move, then realises that I'm coming .. and stops. The one turning left just moves as soon as the one turning right moves (relying on someone else's eyes) .. then sudenly realises I there and stops .. centimetres from chucking me across the road and into oncoming traffic ...

Neither of them bothered to check the road was clear before moving ... (phew .. missed both - but I had blood in my adrenalin stream ...)

This morning - one cage doesn't even bother to look before charging into a roundabout ... I'm coming from their right to go sdtraight through ... but they charge in ... then to make matters worse, brake hard to swing right ... blocking the road exactly where I'm heading !!!! Missed again ..

Fuckers ... I want twin mounted machine guns on the front of my bikes!!!! Targetted at 10 feet!!!

rastuscat

9th November 2011, 18:12

Shrub is on the money.

Taking responsibility for our own safety gives us back control. If we just throw our hands in the air and blame everyone else, we'll have to wait for everyone else to change before riding gets safer. Good luck with that.

Shrub for King.

Span.....King, of course.

Donuts.

rastuscat

9th November 2011, 18:20

I was thinking about the whole SMIDSY debate, and I reckon they are almost entirely avoidable. I reckon the secret comes down to recognising 3 things:

1. Cars don't spontaneously turn or pull out. .

Have to take issue with this claim though.

I was on my way on a work bike to attend the presentation at Trevor Pierce Yamaha in Chur Chur last night. I came across a crash, so stopped to deal with it. Riding a patrol vehicle has it's downsides.

A car stopped at the side of the road had pulled out to u-turn and collected a red XR6 which was passing from behind. The offending driver claimed to have looked and not seen the XR6.

I've heard that so many times over the years, I've drilled it down to dynamic inattention blindness. It's the concept of someone with perfectly good vision looking at a moving object and the mind not registering it's existence. The mind controls the driving, so voila, shazam and all that, the crash happens.

Seen this.................

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vJG698U2Mvo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Inattention blindness.

Donuts R us.

steve_t

9th November 2011, 18:37

Seen this.................

http://www.youtube.com/embed/vJG698U2Mvo

Inattention blindness.

Donuts R us.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about in post #11. Selective attention/vision. If you look for bikes/bicycles, you'll see them. If you only look for cars and truck, you're at risk of not seeing bikers even if they're right in front of you!

shrub

9th November 2011, 18:46

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130191908]The mind controls the driving, so voila, shazam and all that, the crash happens.

The mind controls the driving which means when a car turns the driver has made a decision to turn. I have never een a driver just suddenly turn for no reason at all, people turn because they have made a conscious decision to change direction, pull out etc, and that decision resulted from a number of other factors like passing a road they want to turn down, getting a green traffic light, sitting at an intersection etc, and most of these can be identified and observed.

koba

9th November 2011, 18:48

shrub

9th November 2011, 18:58

OK, I'm going to add my bit without reading the entire thread, just the first 1/2 page or so.

Mostly avoidable, agree - I see heaps of riders putting themselves in silly places and dangerous situations.

BUT!

If you are traveling towards a car in a 70+ speed zone and they decide to turn to their right and don't register you because they aren't paying attention: Your Fucked.

There is no avoiding a whole lot of pain if you are already too close, the only thing you can do is mitigate the impact by trying to scrub off as much speed as possible and positioning yourself to best bear the inevitable impact.

Standing on the pegs saw to it I saw minimal time in hospital.
The attending Policeman said he'd never before seen such a crash be non-fatal.

You're right, standing on the pegs can be a lifesaver, but I assume you saw the car before it hit you? If so, what was it doing, and was it doing something that could have been a predecessor to turning like sitting at an intersection? If it was, did you have an escape route planned and what did you do to maximise the chances of being seen? Or did you just trust that the driver had seen you and expect them to behave accordingly?

koba

9th November 2011, 19:27

You're right, standing on the pegs can be a lifesaver, but I assume you saw the car before it hit you? If so, what was it doing, and was it doing something that could have been a predecessor to turning like sitting at an intersection? If it was, did you have an escape route planned and what did you do to maximise the chances of being seen? Or did you just trust that the driver had seen you and expect them to behave accordingly?

This isn't about my crash so comments are generalised.

If someone is waiting to turn where you have right of way you can be aware of it and PLAN to take some kind of action but in the situation described you can only react fast enough to take effective avoiding action if they turn when you are a certain distance away. If they turn when you are already right upon them you are fucked. It is one of the few situations on the road one can do little about short of stopping and pulling over until there is no traffic or something similar.

I'm always nervous in such a position and will often take an alternative route to avoid such a situation but there really is only so much you can do short of catching the train instead.

You could ride around with 6 fluro vests and 142 flashing lights and some drivers with fail to see you. Proven by the guy on my first aid course who managed a place that ran attenuator trucks*; He said on average they get about 6 people a year run up the back of them.

It's a shame the average aptitude of drivers/riders on the road is woefully inadequate.

Attenuator truck : The big flashy sign motorway trucks with the huge flashing lights and crash absorber things on the back.

rastuscat

9th November 2011, 21:14

The instructor then told us no matter how small the chance of something happening was, it was still a real risk.

Your situational awareness still didn't allow you to see the patrol bike before pulling that mono across Bealey Ave in '06, did it...................tee hee.............:bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh:

onearmedbandit

9th November 2011, 21:54

Your situational awareness still didn't allow you to see the patrol bike before pulling that mono across Bealey Ave in '06, did it...................tee hee.............:bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh:

I saw ya, I was laying down a challenge. When you told me to pull over as you didn't want a race, I took one look at your bike and completely understood why. :bleh:

rastuscat

11th November 2011, 07:10

I saw ya, I was laying down a challenge. When you told me to pull over as you didn't want a race, I took one look at your bike and completely understood why. :bleh:

Nice come back.

I've told lots of folk about how gob smacked I was at the controls on your bike, and how well the mono worked with one hand.

Of course, I have to say (for corporate reasons) that one shouldn't do wheelies in front of a Popo, but good on ya :eek::eek: (personally speaking, of course)

Donuts

oneofsix

11th November 2011, 07:29

SMIDYS are a real risk that with 20/20 hind sight someone will always be able to tell you it was avoidable.
This morning, riding down Boulcoutt St Wellington, i had just come off The Terrace. Spotted a rubbish truck coming out of a side street. This is well before the near SMIDY but I beleave leads up to it. ! I was now aware I was a lone bike on the st. 2 I knew that the truck driver probably thought the street was empty. The st does a 90 degree. around the corner the truck driver swings across the road, stops blocking the road and THEN puts his hassards on. He didn't recheck the road before so no head movement to spot even if I could have had a clear view of him and with all the car parks down there I was busy enough.

Katman

11th November 2011, 07:37

oneofsix

11th November 2011, 08:07

So was there an accident? No? Then you've just proved that with some degree of fore-thought that potential accident was avoidable.

If it had instead resulted in an accident would you have been admonishing yourself for not avoiding it or blaming someone else for causing it?

If there had been an accident the truck driver would have still been the cause. Avoiding it is taking action you shouldn't have to, as in this case crossing the double yellows, again I avoided trouble because I happen to have a habit of checking for opposing traffic on that street by looking around the vehicle in front. This one was avoided because it wasn't wet and I had been in time to see him pull out of the side street, not sure why this made me aware that he would be trouble. Point is we can't always hit the sweet spot, I agree with you that we must try but it don't agree it will always be possible.