LAMs and acc

[Kermit250]

Was wondering with the change to LAM allowing bikes up to 660 cc that are approved for learners: will the "high risk" above 600 CC acc levies be adjusted to recognise that they aren't such a high risk after all?

[nzmikey]

Ok so as i understand it on a "Learners & Restricted" you are able to ( for example ) ride the Hyobag 650 with the restrictor in place but you will still be paying the $530 per year for Rego vs the $414 for a true 250cc bike .:tugger: Whats the point ?

Yeah ok so when you upgrade to a full you have a 650cc bike with the full power wahoo whats the point ?
I can also see that the market for 250cc bikes is going to drop out so those of us with a 250cc bike are going to loose out hard when selling them . :no:

[riffer]

Was wondering with the change to LAM allowing bikes up to 660 cc that are approved for learners: will the "high risk" above 600 CC acc levies be adjusted to recognise that they aren't such a high risk after all?

Short answer. No.

[Kermit250]

what? so even though He hyo obviously isn't a "high risk" as it will be learner legal, you still pay high risk rego?

[oneofsix]

Short answer. No.

Agreed. Your tag line is a good answer to the question. Will the ACC levy for over 600cc be dropped? answer = pissing in the wind.

Trouble with the levy, apart from the faulty maths that is used to justify it, is it fits the simple formula those in the public that don't think can understand. More CC equal more power and therefore must equal more risk. This means the government can sell this to most of the sheep and if you try and say different the sheep will do the governments bleating shouting you down.

If there was any truth to the number then they would still require several years statistics to proof the change in the risk ratios before they could think about changing the ACC levies. Sadly ACC is likely to last 3 more years.

[SMOKEU]

Am I right in saying that all the learner legal bikes (when the new laws come in) are under 60hp? I've seen that the CBR400RR and ZXR400 aren't allowed for learners (which is fair enough).

[Kermit250]

Just thought it to be ironic that the bikes that the government deem: "Safe for learners", can fit into the "high risk" category

[Kermit250]

Am I right in saying that all the learner legal bikes (when the new laws come in) are under 60hp? I've seen that the CBR400RR and ZXR400 aren't allowed for learners (which is fair enough).

Anything above 150kw per ton is not allowed or above 660cc

I guess shouting inflated power figures could be a bit of a bummer now huh? lol

[riffer]

Agreed. Your tag line is a good answer to the question. Will the ACC levy for over 600cc be dropped? answer = pissing in the wind.

Trouble with the levy, apart from the faulty maths that is used to justify it, is it fits the simple formula those in the public that don't think can understand. More CC equal more power and therefore must equal more risk. This means the government can sell this to most of the sheep and if you try and say different the sheep will do the governments bleating shouting you down.

If there was any truth to the number then they would still require several years statistics to proof the change in the risk ratios before they could think about changing the ACC levies. Sadly ACC is likely to last 3 more years.

Hammer, nail. FWIW I have the personal ear of the Labour spokesperson for ACC, but, unless something miraculous happens, I can't see that being of much use.

[superman]

Is there a confirmed date for this change yet? Or is it still in the 2010-2020 plan list...

[Kermit250]

October 2012, http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/driver-licensing-amendment-2011-qa.html

[p.dath]

Just thought it to be ironic that the bikes that the government deem: "Safe for learners", can fit into the "high risk" category

Carefull what you try and point out. Next thing they'll be targeting inexperienced learners ...

[Swoop]

will the "high risk" above 600 CC acc levies be adjusted to recognise that they aren't such a high risk after all?
:rolleyes:

what? so even though He hyo obviously isn't a "high risk" as it will be learner legal, you still pay high risk rego?
"high risk" in politician speak = "high taxability".

I have the personal ear of the Labour spokesperson for ACC, but, unless something miraculous happens, I can't see that being of much use.
Is this some sort of "collect the set" situation? If not, burn the fucking thing until it screams with pain. Labour will do nothing in our favour, despite what lies they tell us prior to an election.

[CookMySock]

Labour will do nothing in our favour, despite what lies they tell us prior to an election.They're all the same, and that's never going to change.

All they want to talk about is some new tax, or implement some new world bank fundraiser. All of them. Do the numbers on what really goes to the govt after your initial PAYE, plus GST, plus 100% of all your RUC/Rego/Rates/Other, fat excise tax on alcohol and fuel and fags, and realise very quickly that you don't work for yourself.

There is only one reason to vote for anyone at all, and that is to give them consent to rule over you. :baby:
Google "boston tea party".

[Oblivion]

There is only one reason to vote for anyone at all, and that is to give them consent to rule over you. :baby:
Google "boston tea party".

All I saw there was "Tax".

Mentioned 39 times.

Like someone said earlier in another thread "I'm giving my vote to the best candidate. The bin."

[baffa]

When you think about it though, fair being fair, inexperienced riders should be paying more ACC to account for the higher likelyhood of an accident. Regardless of engine size.

And completing driver/rider courses or opting for abs equipped bikes should also bring down rego costs.

Sorry guys, what was I thinking? I'm using common sense again.

[MSTRS]

When you think about it though, fair being fair, inexperienced riders should be paying more ACC to account for the higher likelyhood of an accident. Regardless of engine size.

And completing driver/rider courses or opting for abs equipped bikes should also bring down rego costs.

Sorry guys, what was I thinking? I'm using common sense again.

If you really were thinking, you'd realise that it's vehicles that attract rego/acc levy, not people. The jury is out on whether we'd like to change that.

[nzmikey]

When you think about it though, fair being fair, inexperienced riders should be paying more ACC to account for the higher likelyhood of an accident. Regardless of engine size.


Ok so what about returning Riders ? ...... EG : My Father is 60 he STILL has his 6F , the last bike he rode was my 250 Hornet all of 400m & before that he has not ridden a bike while I have been alive ( other than scooters in Raro ) He could still go get a bike & ride if he wants , now working on your theory of "inexperienced riders" how would you know that he was Inexperienced by looking at his licence ?? :confused: you cant .

[oneofsix]

Ok so what about returning Riders ? ...... EG : My Father is 60 he STILL has his 6F , the last bike he rode was my 250 Hornet all of 400m & before that he has not ridden a bike while I have been alive ( other than scooters in Raro ) He could still go get a bike & ride if he wants , now working on your theory of "inexperienced riders" how would you know that he was Inexperienced by looking at his licence ?? :confused: you cant .

Fair question and I will add how to you determine experience anyhow. Twenty years of doing the same thing all the time in the same conditions isn't really experience and leaves you up shit creek when something changes.
ACC is no fault no blame system so you can't blame inexperience.

[Monkfish]

My question as an inexperienced wannabie,

I'm 28, and not a small guy (110kg). Now when I first saw the changes being made to the act I thought, "sweet, ill go get my BHS done and buy a 400/600cc bike and hopefully not get caught before the changes are made in October"

but upon closer inspection I see (if i am reading this right) that they are removing the options that allow you to reduce the time spent gaining your full license.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/driver-licensing-amendment-2011-qa.html

"Will novice riders still be able to reduce the mandatory minimum time spent on a restricted licence by completing the existing approved advanced driving course?
No. The option for motorcyclists to complete an approved advanced driving course (Defensive Driving or Street Talk) to reduce their time on a restricted motorcycle licence will be removed." :tugger:

So experienced guru's is it better for me to suck it up and get my BHS now in Jan\Feb + little 250cc, and try to get my full as quick as possible before the changes. Or wait and just potter through the system on a underpowered 600??

[oneofsix]

My question as an inexperienced wannabie,

I'm 28, and not a small guy (110kg). Now when I first saw the changes being made to the act I thought, "sweet, ill go get my BHS done and buy a 400/600cc bike and hopefully not get caught before the changes are made in October"

but upon closer inspection I see (if i am reading this right) that they are removing the options that allow you to reduce the time spent gaining your full license.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/driver-licensing-amendment-2011-qa.html

"Will novice riders still be able to reduce the mandatory minimum time spent on a restricted licence by completing the existing approved advanced driving course?
No. The option for motorcyclists to complete an approved advanced driving course (Defensive Driving or Street Talk) to reduce their time on a restricted motorcycle licence will be removed." :tugger:

So experienced guru's is it better for me to suck it up and get my BHS now in Jan\Feb + little 250cc, and try to get my full as quick as possible before the changes. Or wait and just potter through the system on a underpowered 600??

Get one of the killer 250s you wont be allowed under the new system now and get on with it.

[Monkfish]

Get one of the killer 250s you wont be allowed under the new system now and get on with it.

Please excuse me, my researching skills are found wanting.

Will there will be some 250cc bikes considered "high risk" learners???

I find that confusing that they are allowing 600cc bikes that can easily be modified by the learner rider to look compliant, but put out big ponies, and limiting the smaller bikes.

[p.dath]

You will be allowed bikes up to 150kw/tonne. So a small number of 250cc bikes wont be allowed. Some additional low power bikes up to 660cc will now be allowed. You rego label will have LAMS printed on it if the bike is compliant. If you get pulled over by the Police on a learners licence and don't have the LAMs printed on your rego expect to have issues.

You wont be able to use the current car based defensive driving courses to shorten your motorbike licence time. From memory, the legislation does for motorcycle focused riding courses, or at least that was the intent, but as yet I am now aware of any such approved courses.

[davereid]

You will be allowed bikes up to 150kw/tonne. So a small number of 250cc bikes wont be allowed. Some additional low power bikes up to 660cc will now be allowed. You rego label will have LAMS printed on it if the bike is compliant. If you get pulled over by the Police on a learners licence and don't have the LAMs printed on your rego expect to have issues.

You wont be able to use the current car based defensive driving courses to shorten your motorbike licence time. From memory, the legislation does for motorcycle focused riding courses, or at least that was the intent, but as yet I am now aware of any such approved courses.

In another thread, an aussie biker advised that bikes like the Ninja 650 are available under LAMs in Oz as they make a special model for Oz that has been detuned.

NZ is going to use the Oz list, so the Ninja 650 aka ER6 will be lams approved here. Except ours are the non restricted model, and can come from the factory with snorting race pipes, all sorted by the manufacturer.

And you will be safe riding it, as long as NZTA are dumb enough to write LAMs on the label, you are covered.

[sleemanj]

Please excuse me, my researching skills are found wanting.

Will there will be some 250cc bikes considered "high risk" learners???

Vicroads lists the following as the high risk 250s which are not permitted to learners, you can expect the same or similar here in October.

APRILIA RS250
HONDA NSR250
KAWASAKI KR1, KR1S
SUZUKI RGV250
YAMAHA TZR250

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/OtherLicences/MotorcycleLicences/Approvedmotorcyclesfornoviceriders.htm

[sleemanj]

NZ is going to use the Oz list, so the Ninja 650 aka ER6 will be lams approved here. Except ours are the non restricted model

In that case they would not be permitted unless NZTA REALLY drop the ball in implementation.

As you can see in the Vicroads link
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/OtherLicences/MotorcycleLicences/Approvedmotorcyclesfornoviceriders.htm
the models are very specific, ie, the ER-6nL is the permitted model, I'd highly suspect the L is model code for LAM, while the ER-6n is the unrestricted one and does not appear on the list.

[Monkfish]

Vicroads lists the following as the high risk 250s which are not permitted to learners, you can expect the same or similar here in October.

APRILIA RS250
HONDA NSR250
KAWASAKI KR1, KR1S
SUZUKI RGV250
YAMAHA TZR250

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/OtherLicences/MotorcycleLicences/Approvedmotorcyclesfornoviceriders.htm

Cheers.

Still not sure now on what to do for a bike now....

I'm thinking that once I pass my test (booked next week for my BHS), that because I want a commuter, I'll have to spend decent money on a bike (looking to commute 40mins each way).

but if I do it will be worth jack in October. However it looks like If I wait for LAMS I can get a XJ6-N which would suit me just fine.

I don't know what to do. as I want my license asap but I don't want to loose all my money because of impatience.

This sucks. or I guess that I could just buy the XJ and hope I dont get caught. :shifty:

[Tigadee]

I'm 28, and not a small guy (110kg). Now when I first saw the changes being made to the act I thought, "sweet, ill go get my BHS done and buy a 400/600cc bike and hopefully not get caught before the changes are made in October"

I'm 110kgs and my 250 bikes have no trouble lugging my lardy arse around... Just get your BHS and a 250 and ride.

Learning to ride is more important and valuable than any monetary loss, and while it is possible to learn to ride on a larger bike, it's just safer and less expensive to do so on a 250 (and you will drop the bike and need fixing it while you are learning no matter how careful you are, trust me!).

[Lelitu]

I'm 110kgs and my 250 bikes have no trouble lugging my lardy arse around... Just get your BHS and a 250 and ride.

quoted for truth

a 250 may not be perfect, you have to twist harder to cope with really steep hills and motorways
but it will still easily do the legal limit, and has plenty of range.

go with something that is comfortable to sit on, for taller people, the Hyosung's tend to be good, with their fullsize frame.

I have no plans to trade up from my 250 when I get my full
not for a few years at least.

[MSTRS]

I have no plans to trade up from my 250 when I get my full
not for a few years at least.

What? You have no plans to get on a screamingly insane 200hp liter bike as soon as humanly possible?
You can't be saying things like that round these parts, young lady...

[Lelitu]

What? You have no plans to get on a screamingly insane 200hp liter bike as soon as humanly possible?
You can't be saying things like that round these parts, young lady...

oh, I want one, I definitely want one. not even going to pretend the thrill of going really fucking fast through twisties
doesn't have massive appeal.

but I have absolutely no need for it.
even if I traded up to a 600, I'd not be using that power except on track days

[MSTRS]

oh, I want one, I definitely want one. not even going to pretend the thrill of going really fucking fast through twisties
doesn't have massive appeal.

but I have absolutely no need for it.
even if I traded up to a 600, I'd not be using that power except on track days

Who does?
Truth to tell, sometimes the little bikes are just as quick in the twisties etc AND for trackdays. As the old saying goes "It's not what you have but how you use it"

[sleemanj]

Cheers.

Still not sure now on what to do for a bike now....

The XJ6N is NOT on the Vicroads LAM, the XJ6N*L* is, which is a very much power restricted model of the bike (it is restricted way down to 25kw I think).

More of a consideration than power is comfort, what bike physically fits you best.

[Tigadee]

a 250 may not be perfect, you have to twist harder to cope with really steep hills and motorways

Changing gears might help? :whistle:


go with something that is comfortable to sit on, for taller people, the Hyosung's tend to be good, with their fullsize frame.

The Hyo has one disadvantage though, the leg space tends to be a bit cramped (I tried it out), like you're kneeling into the bike and not sitting on it... So eat height is great, body size is great and steady, but you feel like you're sitting on your knees than your bum. :pinch:


I have no plans to trade up from my 250 when I get my full
not for a few years at least.

Same here... I finally realised that because I was trying and succeeded in getting an exemption for a larger bike (up to 650cc) but the restrictions (NZTA said I had to choose one bike, and one bike only) not to mention availability, higher price/costs, maintenance, weight, etc., brought those plans crashing down. Plus I plan to be mostly a commuter for the next couple of years, so a bigger cc bike just wasn't necessary.

Now I have two 250cc bikes (one of which is full-framed) and happy to just pootle around comfortably on them. :scooter:

[darkone]

The LAMS lists are very specific regarding bike models and in NSW at least LAMS bikes pay the same increased rego as the unrestricted versions. I was paying the same for my Gladius lams as my flatmate was for his cbr600rr .....
I can't see ACC being any different.