Child poverty in NZ (TV3 22/11)

[JimO]

cant help wondering why the people who are least able to look after and care for their kids have so many

[MIXONE]

cant help wondering why the people who are least able to look after and care for their kids have so many

I wonder too.Maybe condoms are too expensive.

[Usarka]

level of intelligence probably plays a part. Not PC sure, so sue me.

[Madness]

It's partly a money thing I reckon. For generations under our welfare system it's been a case of the more kids, the more money Winz gives you. End up with too many? - Just farm a few out to rellies :niceone:

[Paul in NZ]

It's partly a money thing I reckon. For generations under our welfare system it's been a case of the more kids, the more money Winz gives you. End up with too many? - Just farm a few out to rellies :niceone:

Sadly this is too true. Bonus points for a disability and extra dosh if the kids not yours....

[MisterD]

Why the fuck was blatant electioneering like this allowed in the last week of the campaign? Should have had a promotor statement...

Anyway here's the estimable Lindsay Mitchell (http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/11/1200-children-born-today-might-well-be.html).


Putting aside non-fatal preventable disease, as I pointed out earlier, in 1960 the infant mortality rate was 23 per 1,000 infants. Today the figure is 4.8.

So let's frame those statistics in Bryan's terms when he says, "150 babies died in New Zealand last year who might well be alive if they had been born in Sweden, Japan or even the Czech Republic."

1200 children born today might well be dead if they had been born in the 1960s. Born into that socialist era when New Zealanders, as he put it, owned everything including electricity and the rail, and our agricultural products had guaranteed access to the British market.

[Usarka]

There's been huge advances in medicine since the 1960s, your argument is invalid.

[ynot slow]

There's been huge advances in medicine since the 1960s, your argument is invalid.

Damn right,my mums dad had lung cancer and died in 1965ish,I had cancer and would've died in the 60's,but in the present era survived.And also had lung cancer recently,most certainly had been history back in the 60's.

The thing is food in schools,the Swedes have it sussed,good wholesome food for lunch,kids able to learn with energy and not worrying about tiredness due to hunger,hell the parents could get away with having a huge tea for them.How often after school did we all grab a sandwich or toast,biscuits etc at 3-3.30 after school only to be full at tea time lol.

Also why the schools can't recieve funding to buy a few crates of bread from the supermarkets,especially the bread due to be returned to the bakers for credit,the bread is then made into bread crumbs anyway,and is still only less than 2 days old,and great for toast, surely fonterra could supply butter and milk at a discount.The funding could even come from the pokie trusts,or lotto funding a bloody worthwhile cause.

[SMOKEU]

If you have a look at any black culture it's in their nature to breed like rabbits.

[caspernz]

Child poverty is quite a simple issue. Personal responsibility has gone by the wayside. Governments can't solve all problems for those too dumb to think for themselves. It's not a racial issue as much as it is lack of general education/intelligence. The DPB was meant to solve a problem, instead it has turned into a lifestyle choice for some. Perhaps the Chinese approach had merit after all?

[oneofsix]

Child poverty is quite a simple issue. Personal responsibility has gone by the wayside. Governments can't solve all problems for those too dumb to think for themselves. It's not a racial issue as much as it is lack of general education/intelligence. The DPB was meant to solve a problem, instead it has turned into a lifestyle choice for some. Perhaps the Chinese approach had merit after all?

cool no Sir Boib Jones and no John Keys. All problems solved. Well done Casper.

[White trash]

At the risk of getting flamed the fuck out of, here's my thoughts.

The Swedish model is something that should be thoroughly investigated and set an example to how New Zealand should be. What's wrong with $20 a week less for each child from Working For Familys credits in return for a healthy cooked meal for every child at school for lunch? What's wrong with a school nurse full time and GP visits twice weekly at each school?

All you cunts that jump up and down about bludgers with kids, why should they get handouts etc etc. Guess what, I work hard. Fucken hard in fact. About 65 hours a week all told. My family doesn't have the spare cash most weeks to pay $58 for an after hours doctors visit should one of the kids need it. I thought NZ was supposed to have a free healthcare system? Isn't that one of the many things that makes this country awesome? So make it properly free for the kids, as Mr Gareth Morgan pointed out. For every dollar spent early on in health care on prevention, you'll not spend $3 later on.

I'm struggling to see why this is a bad idea.

[oneofsix]

At the risk of getting flamed the fuck out of, here's my thoughts.

The Swedish model is something that should be thoroughly investigated and set an example to how New Zealand should be. What's wrong with $20 a week less for each child from Working For Familys credits in return for a healthy cooked meal for every child at school for lunch? What's wrong with a school nurse full time and GP visits twice weekly at each school?

All you cunts that jump up and down about bludgers with kids, why should they get handouts etc etc. Guess what, I work hard. Fucken hard in fact. About 65 hours a week all told. My family doesn't have the spare cash most weeks to pay $58 for an after hours doctors visit should one of the kids need it. I thought NZ was supposed to have a free healthcare system? Isn't that one of the many things that makes this country awesome? So make it properly free for the kids, as Mr Gareth Morgan pointed out. For every dollar spent early on in health care on prevention, you'll not spend $3 later on.

I'm struggling to see why this is a bad idea.

you are thinking long term. the cunts that jump up and down about bludgers with kids only tend to think short term and self centred. There should be no such thing as working for families, wages should be high enough to not require it. Higher wages more money on the go around instead of stuck in some fat cats investment account or being spent oversea by same fat cat.

[Maha]

It will take a generation (minimum) to see even the slightest move away from poverty in some homes.
In many cases, its inbred (from generations prior) into the children, that this is life.
During the mid 90's I worked in houses that were considered ''poverty strickened''.
Day after fucking day I saw shit that (in the end) done my head in..it was a six month contract and when it came time to renew said contract...I declined.
One little boy, possible 5-6 years old...cold -3 deg Rotorua morning, had his arse kicked out the door by his ''father'' and was told to'' stop fucking crying get to fuckin school''...little chap only had shorts and a shirt on..no shoes, no jersey...snot hanging out his nose yelling that he hasn't had breakfast.
Did that bother his old man?....na.
Within minutes, the childs parents were sitting at the table, coffee in hand and rolling a joint.
They asked if I minded?
I said ''I dont give a shit mate''...
Packed up my gear and fucked off...

That little boy will be an adult now...
Possibly have kids of his own...who are now getting the same treatment.

[Scuba_Steve]

I would say 1 of the differences between the NZ vs Sweden models was Sweden puts the money towards services that directly benefit the kids, we give the money to the parents & hope they use it to benefit the kids and we all know how well that's working...

[nudemetalz]

Man, that is sad, Maha !! :(

[BoristheBiter]

At the risk of getting flamed the fuck out of, here's my thoughts.

The Swedish model is something that should be thoroughly investigated and set an example to how New Zealand should be. What's wrong with $20 a week less for each child from Working For Familys credits in return for a healthy cooked meal for every child at school for lunch? What's wrong with a school nurse full time and GP visits twice weekly at each school?

All you cunts that jump up and down about bludgers with kids, why should they get handouts etc etc. Guess what, I work hard. Fucken hard in fact. About 65 hours a week all told. My family doesn't have the spare cash most weeks to pay $58 for an after hours doctors visit should one of the kids need it. I thought NZ was supposed to have a free healthcare system? Isn't that one of the many things that makes this country awesome? So make it properly free for the kids, as Mr Gareth Morgan pointed out. For every dollar spent early on in health care on prevention, you'll not spend $3 later on.

I'm struggling to see why this is a bad idea.

As if you would get flamed.:innocent:

I do agree with that, take away the "tuck shop" and put in cafetieres. I would be more than happy to take my $30 ACC from gareth and feed some kids.
That is a much better idea than most have come up with.
as for the nurse we used to have one don't know what happened, probably cost cutting or maybe with the H&S act it was, like a lot of this, just too hard to comply.
Doctors/ free health care? well hospitals are still free but you have to wait a while. Check out the local doctors as around our area there is a massive difference in prices, but I get your point.

And with out the thought of being flamed myself, what extras could you do without? Fags, booze, sky, mobile phones etc. I don't know you so only guessing.

[unstuck]

I know of a couple of familys who can only afford to give their kids noodles for tea, but can afford to get pissed on the weekends,buy a couple of tinnys during the week and get the latest playstation games. Fuck,that kinda shit really rips my undies.:oi-grr:

[caspernz]

I would say 1 of the differences between the NZ vs Sweden models was Sweden puts the money towards services that directly benefit the kids, we give the money to the parents & hope they use it to benefit the kids and we all know how well that's working...

Mmmm, did someone say foodstamps? That doesn't work as well as it's intended either.... Maha is right in that it will take time to change the attitude. I guess the attitude being that kids don't deserve respect in the eyes of some folks. Even then this change will only be partial...

[Maha]

Man, that is sad, Maha !! :(

Sad but very real...
The children growing up within this kind of environment have no incentive to seek employment.
Not when there is free money on tap.
Mid 90's once again...a mate of mine walked into the local Labour Exchange (or whatever it was called back then) and asked three teenagers (who were sitting waiting to be seen about getting the dole) if they wanted a job?

''doing what''?
''Ripping up old lino at the Hospital''
''whats the pay''?
Dave told them.
''Oh na''...
So Dave just walked out..

[White trash]

And with out the thought of being flamed myself, what extras could you do without? Fags, booze, sky, mobile phones etc. I don't know you so only guessing.

No way man, this is a very good point.

Gave up smoking 3 months back, reality is I should have done it at the start of the year when I took a paycut due to changing careers for something less stressful but I was in denial I could still afford to. No Sky at my place, in fact we only have a TV because the parents in law had a spare one when our last shitter gave up the ghost. Only beer I drink is that brought round by other people or for way of thanks for helping others work on their bikes or when Fatjim (GC) comes around for a bender. Mobile is a handme down from a mate on a pre-paid card (which seldom has credit) so people can get hold of me afterhours should they need to. So while you have a very valid point and there are a hell of a lot of people wasting while complaining about how tough it is, I'm certainly not one of them.

[White trash]

I would say 1 of the differences between the NZ vs Sweden models was Sweden puts the money towards services that directly benefit the kids, we give the money to the parents & hope they use it to benefit the kids and we all know how well that's working...

Yup. And the Swedish authorities believe it costs $20 per week to feed each child at school.

For each of my school aged kids, reduce my Working For Families credit by $30 a week, in return give them FREE health care and a healthy, school provided meal. What parent wouldn't agree to that?

[Maha]

I know of a couple of familys who can only afford to give their kids noodles for tea, but can afford to get pissed on the weekends,buy a couple of tinnys during the week and get the latest playstation games. Fuck,that kinda shit really rips my undies.:oi-grr:

Theres are the kind of people that also get food parcels...
Working at a church a few months back in Wellsford...a lady came in to get a box of food for a family sitting in a people mover outside...both parents were smoking..
Anne and myself gave up smoking almost years ago now...I was loosing $4K per year to ciggies and Anne was loosing $6K..
Thats a combined finacial lose of $10K! per year. TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.!

Now, Wellsford family may well be struggling and are entitled to smoke if they want to but for fucks sake people..you obviously cant afford it.

[BoristheBiter]

Theres are the kind of people that also get food parcels...
Working at a church a few months back in Wellsford...a lady came in to get a box of food for a family sitting in a people mover outside...both parents were smoking..
Anne and myself gave up smoking almost years ago now...I was loosing $4K per year to ciggies and Anne was loosing $6K..
Thats a combined finacial lose of $10K! per year. TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.!

Now, Wellsford family may well be struggling and are entitled to smoke if they want to but for fucks sake people..you obviously cant afford it.

Used to work with a guy, good pay, no real problems then one year i saw him on tv getting Xmas dinner at the city mission.
Pulled him aside and asked if there was any thing we could do. He just laughed and said "fuck no it's free food, do it all the time and they hand out food parcels"
What more is there to say.

[BoristheBiter]

Yup. And the Swedish authorities believe it costs $20 per week to feed each child at school.

For each of my school aged kids, reduce my Working For Families credit by $30 a week, in return give them FREE health care and a healthy, school provided meal. What parent wouldn't agree to that?

Even could make the jails make all the food for the schools.
They could grow all their own food, raise some cattle, sheep etc. even learn to butcher an animal, give them some tools/structure for when they get out not only in the growing but the prep work and organisational skills to plan.

This not only keeps the cost down for jails but now gets cheaper better quality food for the kids.

There is so much untapped potential in this country we just need to think outside the box.

[MSTRS]

What parent wouldn't agree to that?

The one's who'll 'lose' $20pw/pc to spend at the pub/tinny house/pokies...

[White trash]

Good on you.

Trouble is, there's no shortage of parents out there who seem happy for their kids to go hungry as long as they have their cigarettes and plenty of piss in the fridge.

And therein lies the problem mate, educating these people.

[Scuba_Steve]

Mmmm, did someone say foodstamps? That doesn't work as well as it's intended either....

Nope not foodstamps, feed the kids at school. Don't give the parents the opportunity to deprive their kids

[superman]

cant help wondering why the people who are least able to look after and care for their kids have so many

That correlation occurs in all countries with the lower class always having higher numbers of kids.

All sorts of studies give any manner of reasons from gaining benefit money to an evolutionary reason that those living in strife sub-consciously have more kids.

[unstuck]

I have even heard one parent advising her 15yr old daughter to get pregnant so they could get more bennie. Some pretty fucked up attitudes out there.:facepalm:

[Maha]

I have even heard one parent advising her 15yr old daughter to get pregnant so they could get more bennie. Some pretty fucked up attitudes out there.:facepalm:

Poverty is in the DNA of some for sure..how to alter that?...dont know, not my feild of expertise.
I would be a wealthy man if I did know.

[Spearfish]

Even could make the jails make all the food for the schools.
They could grow all their own food, raise some cattle, sheep etc. even learn to butcher an animal, give them some tools/structure for when they get out not only in the growing but the prep work and organisational skills to plan.

This not only keeps the cost down for jails but now gets cheaper better quality food for the kids.

There is so much untapped potential in this country we just need to think outside the box.


Would you eat food prepared by a pedo who spent half an hour dipping his pecker into the kids pudding?

The woman's prison who were going to be eating food prepared by the local mens prison weren't to excited for obvious reasons some years back.

But I understand where your comeing from with to much human waste, or is that wasted humans?

[Spearfish]

I would be a wealthy man if I did know.

I doubt you would, you would be forced redistribute your wealth:shutup:

[Maha]

I doubt you would, you would be forced redistribute your wealth:shutup:

Money Laundering?...:confused:

[yachtie10]

If you have a look at any black culture it's in their nature to breed like rabbits.

ignorant as usual, have a look at some of the white supremecist groups that say white people should be breeding faster (and are doing do in there small groups) so we can have more kids than the "blacks"

I for one (and im sure im not the only one) am tired of your racist comments

we get it you dont like anybody whos not like you

Keep it to yourself

(and your angry little retaliation red reps are a bit ridiculous)

[Spearfish]

Money Laundering?...:confused:


Dunno if running bike events count?

But it will depend on the political flavour the country is in at the time.

[jasonu]

For each of my school aged kids, reduce my Working For Families credit by $30 a week, in return give them FREE health care and a healthy, school provided meal. What parent wouldn't agree to that?

The parents that spend the childrens benefit dollars on beer, cigs, the naggs and dope.

[Tigadee]

I'm struggling to see why this is a bad idea.

It's not at all. But the major political parties will not agree even on this, and think only in terms of 4 years instead of 14 or 40 years...

And the petty silly thing about it is, whichever party comes out with this idea, will be shot down only just because, no other reason. Another problem is whether the party that does take up this idea of prevention at early childhood will follow through...

[MSTRS]

Can be almost 100% certain it'll never happen. Our lords and masters :sick: are not into building fences (except when they're made by Brifen). And the ambulances that get sent to the bottom of the cliff are usually so poorly maintained that they fail to arrive.

[scumdog]

The one thing that grinds me down in my job - seeing lazy-arsed drug-smoking, piss-drinking 'parents' who grizzle how hard/expensive it is to bring up kids. (While said kids run amuck at 2am without any concern of the 'parents')

And above type only really get excited and 'care' for said kids when the threat of CYFS looms on the horizon.

And they talk to me like it's all quite normal and butter wouldn't melt in their mouths and tell me their kids are 'good kids'.

I just want to punch them in their nicotine-stained broken-toothed mouth.

[imdying]

I for one (and im sure im not the only one) am tired of your racist commentsI love them, keep them coming SmokeU. Don't let this nigger hippy keep you down.

[scumdog]

If you have a look at any black culture it's in their nature to breed like rabbits.

And as sooon as they figure out how to keep them all alive... your lilly-white ass will be a-puckering....

[oneofsix]

The parents that spend the childrens benefit dollars on beer, cigs, the naggs and dope.

Nah they wont care. They will take their spending out of what the spent on the kids, but as the kids now get feed at school it wont hurt them as much.

[White trash]

Nah they wont care. They will take their spending out of what the spent on the kids, but as the kids now get feed at school it wont hurt them as much.

Exactly. We'll no longer be giving the dropkicks the money in the hope they feed their kids, we'll be passing it on to people who actually care about kids and make sure they're fed.

[Mad-V2]

But then you will have parents not buying food for their kids dinner, cause they've had a big feed at school.
Toast for breakfast and tea at home and a nice wholesome meal at school.
The situation won't change when it comes to useless parents.

[imdying]

Exactly. We'll no longer be giving the dropkicks the money in the hope they feed their kids, we'll be passing it on to people who actually care about kids and make sure they're fed.You're trusting. I expect that it'll be supplied in a lump sum. Some of the receivers will steal it, some of them will tender for the cheapest quality crap that passes the standard (even if that's just the testing samples) and pocket the profit, and maybe if you're lucky some will use it wisely to supply their community. This is NZ remember.

[Tigadee]

The Government is supposed to hold such processes accountable and transparent, but the way the Gov'ts have been in the past 20 years, I think it's them who need to be held accountable!

[Gremlin]

I'd like to see this "poverty" everyone keeps bleating about. I've seen real poverty, but never in NZ.

There was a fruit in schools campaign started, that was actually very good (if the little blighters would eat fruit) except National stopped the funding for it. Schools wish they could get on with teaching the kids, but know very well feeding them first makes them learn better.

I reckon there should stop being a blanket funding of kids. First 2-3, free, rest, you pay for. Children should be a priviledge, not a right.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The parents that spend the childrens benefit dollars on beer, cigs, the naggs and dope.

its not horse racing these days, its the pokies. That shit is worse than crack

[MisterD]

There's been huge advances in medicine since the 1960s, your argument is invalid.

The argument is that the presenter's conclusions "right wingers kill our kids" is slanted emotional claptrap, and that is perfectly valid.



Children should be a priviledge, not a right.

So, if you don't have kids, do you expect my kids' taxes to pay for your healthcare?

[Pseudonym]

I’m sure the technology is available where those who are on the benefit can be issued with an EFTPOS card that won’t allow cigarettes, alcohol or money to be withdrawn?
Or if they do need cash it has to be approved through WINZ and then a receipt given back.
It is after all not their money they are spending weather they see it that way or not.

Smoking, drinking and gambling are ok if it’s your money and its money you don’t need.
But I work for a living and I can’t afford it, what with the bike to support and a mortgage to pay…

As for feeding the kids in school, bloody great idea!
I don’t mind my tax going to those who need it.

[Maha]

''As for feeding the kids in school, bloody great idea!''

In one way yes, I agree.
But it teaches both parents and children nothing, except..someone else will yet again ...pay.

[Gremlin]

So, if you don't have kids, do you expect my kids' taxes to pay for your healthcare?
Yes.

Since "I" have paid for other people's healthcare and it's not user pays. The plan however falls apart when some people abuse the fuck out of it, and instead of treating it like a crutch when randomly necessary, live off it instead.

[scumdog]

Yes.

Since "I" have paid for other people's healthcare and it's not user pays. The plan however falls apart when some people abuse the fuck out of it, and instead of treating it like a crutch when randomly necessary, live off it instead.

The plan however falls apart when some people abuse the fuck out of it, and instead of treating it like a crutch when randomly necessary, EXIST off it instead. Fixed for ya!:niceone:

[JimO]

perhaps anybody going on a benefit should be sterilised , stop them having more kids?? dont want to be sterilised dont go on a benefit, same for state houses

[Usarka]

Tuned into radio live momentarilly this arvo, heard - if the houses are mouldy why don't the lazy fuckers open the curtains and windows and do some cleaning!

I thought it was a very good point. My house would become mouldy if I sat on the couch smoking pot with the curtains and windows closed all day too :shifty:

The doco was sensationalist bull crap.

[Grasshopperus]

I’m sure the technology is available where those who are on the benefit can be issued with an EFTPOS card that won’t allow cigarettes, alcohol or money to be withdrawn?


I would foresee a secondary economy being created out of something like this.

1. Buy $15 of bread using food stamps (which is pretty much what you're describing)
2. Walk out of the store around the back and trade it for $10 worth of cigarettes.

You'd be creating a whole new class of middlemen. I think exploits like this are the reason that food stamp plans don't quite work out as well as people would like them to. People who want smokes/alcohol will do anything to get them.

[SPman]

perhaps anybody going on a benefit should be sterilised , stop them having more kids?? dont want to be sterilised dont go on a benefit, same for state housesThat would be one of the more inane, non thought through, knee jerk, mouth-offs, from the bunch of inanities spewed forth on this thread.
For once, the good ideas outweigh them.......

[PrincessBandit]

Yes.

Since "I" have paid for other people's healthcare and it's not user pays. The plan however falls apart when some people abuse the fuck out of it, and instead of treating it like a crutch when randomly necessary, live off it instead.

That's the same for any system in NZ designed to help those who need it (ACC anyone?)
'Tis always the abusers who wreck any idealistic setup meant for those who are needy; human beings seem simply incapable of allowing an assistance scheme to operate as it is intended. And kids have always been a weapon of choice for some to use and abuse for their own gain.

[oneofsix]

That's the same for any system in NZ designed to help those who need it (ACC anyone?)
'Tis always the abusers who wreck any idealistic setup meant for those who are needy; human beings seem simply incapable of allowing an assistance scheme to operate as it is intended. And kids have always been a weapon of choice for some to use and abuse for their own gain.
:first:
Whilst I totally agree with you Princess I don't agree with those that would throw the system out just because of the abusers of the system. You deal directly to the abusers, some good old fashion logical approach, not the legalised cotton wool (bring back the stocks), thereby improving the system for all the others. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[JimO]

That would be one of the more inane, non thought through, knee jerk, mouth-offs, from the bunch of inanities spewed forth on this thread.
For once, the good ideas outweigh them.......

stops the ferals from breeding dont it

[oneofsix]

stops the ferals from breeding dont it

as stated before it would have meant no Sir Bob Jones nor John Keys. :Punk:

[Deano]

That would be one of the more inane, non thought through, knee jerk, mouth-offs, from the bunch of inanities spewed forth on this thread.
For once, the good ideas outweigh them.......

A bit like blaming the media for being racist and only reporting abuse by some sectors of society ?:facepalm:

[MisterD]

nor John Keys.

Ferchrissakes, the bloke has been PM for three years and you still don't know what his name is...

[oneofsix]

Ferchrissakes, the bloke has been PM for three years and you still don't know what his name is...

shows what a non event he is.

[ynot slow]

EDUCATION-a simple word,educate the parents,therefor when they have kids the kids will try,Sounds simple but many years ago with all the freezing works/dairy factories,people could leave school at 15 and work,good money,then the system changed,we have families who have never worked,hence kids see no need for education as we can go to winz.

My ex has similar family crap,her sister and husband have been on benefits for years,smoke dope,play pokies,tab,hey their choice,but he has a "bad back" can't work,they were in court a couple of years ago for prescription fraud,got pinged and home detention.

Their kids were doing dope at 15,and my daughter was friends with the daughter,my daughter realised her friend was useless loser so doesn't keep in touch,and as she said in 3rd form all good,in 4th form she changed,was sleeping with boyfriend and drinking,smoking,and saying why study kids pay well,funny thing my daughter is into nursing career,friend is still a loser.

And yes I have been on sickness benefit,would've been better to be injured by crash or sporting injury as payout better,have no idea how many jobs I applied for last time,or this time as am laid off and awaiting surgery.

[Tigadee]

The doco was sensationalist bull crap.

But great contraception and abstinence arguments though... My kids after watching said they're not going to have kids unless they have fulfilled their education and established job/career, 'cos no way they want to live or end up like that!

A wise friend told me that single-parenthood is the main driver of poverty and unfulfilled potential that could have translated into strong economic contribution. Young person gets pregnant, drops out of school to care for child, many 'fathers' run away and don't want or know how to shoulder the buden of fatherhood. (Grand-)Parents have to help out (or not), young mother goes on benefit to survive and lives in poor conditions. Young mother goes back to work but can only find low-paying jobs and ends up working two or three jobs. Mother icomes home tired and has no energy to establish a strong relationship with kids. Lack of father figure also impacts on the child's upbringing.

Kid or kids grow up without parental guidance and presence, end up in mischief, gets pregnant, and the whole cycle plays out again. If the male is responsible and helps with raising the child, it still means both young parents struggling especially with the high cost of living these days and missing out on their education, again the unfulfilled potential and subsequent economic strength missing from the economy.

I'd like to know how much of the system is corrupted by the career beneficiaries, because it is hurting the genuine cases, and there are genuine ones out there who are impacted by the selfish ones' actions. If more than half the system is full of career beneficiaries, the system should be re-booted and the deadbeats weeded out. But sadly no Government/party is ever gong to have the balls to do that...

[jasonu]

I’m sure the technology is available where those who are on the benefit can be issued with an EFTPOS card that won’t allow cigarettes, alcohol or money to be withdrawn?

.

That is done here with the 'Oregon Trail' card. It replaced foodstamps. It gets loaded with the amount of bene you qualify for and is replenished each month while you qualify. It is used like a credit card in shops for qualified items ie fresh food but not cooked food like KFC or Maccas. No lottery, faggs or booze. The underhanded beneficiaries will use it to buy their mates groceries in exchange for cash which they will then spend on KFC, Maccas, lottery faggs and booze.

[BoristheBiter]

I would foresee a secondary economy being created out of something like this.

1. Buy $15 of bread using food stamps (which is pretty much what you're describing)
2. Walk out of the store around the back and trade it for $10 worth of cigarettes.

You'd be creating a whole new class of middlemen. I think exploits like this are the reason that food stamp plans don't quite work out as well as people would like them to. People who want smokes/alcohol will do anything to get them.

So what you are saying is because there might be dodgy people that might do this it shouldn't be tried?
So on that we should just stop all laws and have a free for all as not everyone obeys them.

Yep you are probably right and this might happen, still better then just giving them free money.

[Grasshopperus]

That is done here with the 'Oregon Trail' card.

Does it also let you buy a whole bunch of bullets so you can go shooting bison, moose and rabbits? Ah Oregon Trail, that passed for computer studies when I was in high-school http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oregon_Trail_%28video_game%29


So what you are saying is because there might be dodgy people that might do this it shouldn't be tried?
So on that we should just stop all laws and have a free for all as not everyone obeys them.


Where did I say that?

I have a great game for you; a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.

[BoristheBiter]

Does it also let you buy a whole bunch of bullets so you can go shooting bison, moose and rabbits? Ah Oregon Trail, that passed for computer studies when I was in high-school http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oregon_Trail_%28video_game%29



Where did I say that?

I have a great game for you; a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.

Never said you did, you implied with your comment because someone might do something illegal with their card this is a dumb idea and never work, so hence you think because it wont work for everyone it's a bad idea.

[avgas]

Yep. And people look at me with disbelief when I tell them I was with my partner for 9 years before I thought it was safe to have a kid.
Likewise I am only having one. Not that my little boy is a terror - he is actually a saint of a child.
But because I think there are too many people in the world. The only way I can fix that legally is that we have less than 2 children.

People think the china 1 child policy was barbaric. But you cant help but looks at (what used to be) the slums in china, then look a Lower Hutt and South Auckland.....and think "Fuck! Where are we going?"

Fact of the matter is everyone consumes. So if you want to save the planet and save us.......have less kids. You clearly are smart enough to know the consequences. Hope that the others will learn this also.
Its should not be a right to have kids. It should be a privileged. But unfortunately our organs don't work that way.

[HenryDorsetCase]

A bit like blaming the media for being racist and only reporting abuse by some sectors of society ?:facepalm:

the police for example

[blue rider]

would not one way of getting rid of smoking be just banning the stuff?
I mean it is one of the most addictive drugs - I think we can agree on this
It is one of the biggest killers - also something everyone can agree on

so how come it has not been classified as a Class A such as Heroin/Cocaine/and other drugs?


disclaimer, I used to smoke and stopped. But have asked this question for a long time now, maybe someone can give me an answer.
Because if we only keep them legal for the Tax Revenue and to keep the supposed "black market" we would be creating at bay, than surely we should not judge the addicted amongst us, as we (society) are quite happy to have them addicted.

Another question, how does rising inflation, loss of salary - where a two earner couple is now on a single income etc influence Child Poverty? Not much about that anywhere. but the CPI for last year was at how much?
100 $ in 2009 are $105.54 in 2011
100 $ in 2010 are $103.84 in 2011
as per http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100.00&year1=2010&year2=2011

are rising living costs, stagnating wages, increased GST and other added taxes on services taken into account?

[mashman]

would not one way of getting rid of smoking be just banning the stuff?
I mean it is one of the most addictive drugs - I think we can agree on this
It is one of the biggest killers - also something everyone can agree on

so how come it has not been classified as a Class A such as Heroin/Cocaine/and other drugs?


I take your point, but smoking tobacco doesn't lead to violence, why not just ban alcohol? It does more day to day damage than smoking tobacco ever could. Or hows about, if you don't have a job, then you have to take a predefined bus at a predefined time to reach a predefined "supermarket" to pick up your predefined food allocation and then send your shit (and your childrens shit) for analysis to prove that you ate your predefined food allocation, otherwise your predefined rations will be pegged back until to step into line and queue up for non-existent jobs like everyone else.. and you will be rewarded with a predefined pint at a predefined pub.

[Usarka]

Yep. And people look at me with disbelief when I tell them I was with my partner for 9 years before I thought it was safe to have a kid.
Likewise I am only having one. Not that my little boy is a terror - he is actually a saint of a child.
But because I think there are too many people in the world. The only way I can fix that legally is that we have less than 2 children.

People think the china 1 child policy was barbaric. But you cant help but looks at (what used to be) the slums in china, then look a Lower Hutt and South Auckland.....and think "Fuck! Where are we going?"

Fact of the matter is everyone consumes. So if you want to save the planet and save us.......have less kids. You clearly are smart enough to know the consequences. Hope that the others will learn this also.
Its should not be a right to have kids. It should be a privileged. But unfortunately our organs don't work that way.

The trouble with that approach though is that the stupid will continue to breed and have 8 kids. If "smart" people stop having kids it's going to dumb down the gene pool and how will that bode for the futre...

[blue rider]

I take your point, but smoking tobacco doesn't lead to violence, why not just ban alcohol? It does more day to day damage than smoking tobacco ever could. Or hows about, if you don't have a job, then you have to take a predefined bus at a predefined time to reach a predefined "supermarket" to pick up your predefined food allocation and then send your shit (and your childrens shit) for analysis to prove that you ate your predefined food allocation, otherwise your predefined rations will be pegged back until to step into line and queue up for non-existent jobs like everyone else.. and you will be rewarded with a predefined pint at a predefined pub.

I am looking at tobacco as it is a health issue in general - respiratory diseases that are being need to be cared and paid for, as it is a mental issue - many might like to stop but are to weak willed etc.

as for alcohol, i agree, institute a psychlogical profile, and if ya don't fit you can not have your daily/weekly/monthly allocation (regardless of any income and status) thusly it should prevent violence.
and than make the sacred herb freely available because violence is not really on of its charactaristics. :laugh: and it could be a brilliant cash cow, just think of the tax revenue, it would take power away of petty criminals, keep people out of prison etc......!

as for drug testing beneficiaries, who will pay for it? who will do the testing? and if the tested person comes back as clean who will pay for the testing etc. Currently this is being done in Florida, with interesting results.

http://apps.lobbytools.com/pub/index.cfm?type=bills&id=31064
http://www.examiner.com/hispanic-community-in-miami/governor-scott-drug-testing-and-welfare
http://sunstateactivist.org/ssablog/2011/10/25/program-that-mandates-drug-testing-for-floridas-poor-takes-a-major-hit-in-court/

just some links, there is alot out of there.

basically the point is, if one pays tax - they also pay towards social welfare, unemployment benefits, accomodation benefits etc.
So who should be drug tested, how many times, who should do the testing, who should pay for it, will those that pass be re-imboursed etc.

it is a sad state of affairs, if the general populace believes that welfare receipients are all drug users, people with irresponsible sex lifes, bludgers and other assorted scum of the earth.
heres to hope that none of us never needs any of the services that we are actually paying for in form of our tax.
it is so much better to pay tax for .........what again - polititians salarys and big cars, wine, travels and other perks?

[blue rider]

disclaimer to my previous post

i like vodka, beer, and the of it and usually i just fall asleep eventually. :facepalm:

I am not really endorsing any drugs (other than the ones i use :innocent:), however I would like some consistency in our drug policys.
Tobacco is a killer this is now established, yet it is legal and taxed.
Alcohol is a killer - this is also established, yet it is legal and taxed.
Marie Jeanne is maybe a killer - not yet quite established, but it is illegal, which creates a void in which crime floursishes.

so if we condone of drug testing current and future welfare applicants for which drugs are we testing?
only the ones illegal, or also the legal ones? And will benefits denied only if one uses illegal drugs or also the legal ones?

[BoristheBiter]

I take your point, but smoking tobacco doesn't lead to violence, why not just ban alcohol? It does more day to day damage than smoking tobacco ever could. Or hows about, if you don't have a job, then you have to take a predefined bus at a predefined time to reach a predefined "supermarket" to pick up your predefined food allocation and then send your shit (and your childrens shit) for analysis to prove that you ate your predefined food allocation, otherwise your predefined rations will be pegged back until to step into line and queue up for non-existent jobs like everyone else.. and you will be rewarded with a predefined pint at a predefined pub.

That would have to be your best idea since ages ago.:clap:

[MD]

But because I think there are too many people in the world. The only way I can fix that legally is that we have less than 2 children.

People think the china 1 child policy was barbaric. But you cant help but looks at (what used to be) the slums in china, then look a Lower Hutt and South Auckland.....and think "Fuck! Where are we going?"

Fact of the matter is everyone consumes. So if you want to save the planet and save us.......have less kids. You clearly are smart enough to know the consequences. Hope that the others will learn this also.
Its should not be a right to have kids. It should be a privileged. But unfortunately our organs don't work that way.

Wise words. It's just a shame the dumb lazy slobs that shouldn't be breeding don't read.
Intelligent hard working people that want a quality life for themselves and their children only procreate for what they can sustain.

We are heading for a world over population disaster and that world will be full of idiots. The world media all celebrated the fact last month that the world pop. reached 7 billion. I see nothing but shame in that milestone.

There is no child starvation or child poverty problem. What we have is adults in poverty and/or famine breeding like rats, fully aware that they can not, or do not intend to, give the child the necessities for life.

[avgas]

The trouble with that approach though is that the stupid will continue to breed and have 8 kids. If "smart" people stop having kids it's going to dumb down the gene pool and how will that bode for the futre...
Eventually we all must learn.
The alternative is that we all die.

Either way the human race will never be the same again. Here's hoping the stupid get smart before then.
Other than that we can only do what we can do. Hell of a better solution that putting the burden on our kids to not only fix past generations faults but to also fix ours.

[mashman]

That would have to be your best idea since ages ago.:clap:

As I've said before, if I batted for the other team, noooo not honda, you'd all be fubar and I'd make JK look like a boy scout

[mashman]

Wise words. It's just a shame the dumb lazy slobs that shouldn't be breeding don't read.
Intelligent hard working people that want a quality life for themselves and their children only procreate for what they can sustain.

We are heading for a world over population disaster and that world will be full of idiots. The world media all celebrated the fact last month that the world pop. reached 7 billion. I see nothing but shame in that milestone.

There is no child starvation or child poverty problem. What we have is adults in poverty and/or famine breeding like rats, fully aware that they can not, or do not intend to, give the child the necessities for life.

who give a shit when there's money to be made!

[avgas]

who give a shit when there's money to be made!
There is money to be made. And we can solve poverty.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GDXYzUlv0S8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

Yahoo! poll results: child poverty (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14703445/yahoo-poll-results-child-poverty/)... it would seem that a huge amount of Kiwi's are cunts.

[BoristheBiter]

Yahoo! poll results: child poverty (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14703445/yahoo-poll-results-child-poverty/)... it would seem that a huge amount of Kiwi's are cunts.

And the rest are lazy parents.

[mashman]

And the rest are lazy parents.

And I thought they'd be the concerned citizens... that'll learn me

[avgas]

But the real question is how many people care about polls?

[Paul in NZ]

Most of the poverty in NZ is a poverty of the spirit.... Its the hardest to fix and you sure aint going to find it at the local liquor wholesalers...

[oneofsix]

"41% of the people think the kids should just help themselves" I don't see a problem, there should therefore no longer be any hungry kids at school, just pop down the road and help yourself. Changes are that was 100% of small to medium business owners so the local dairy or restaurant would be a good place to start, oh and if you need a ride to school just pop into the nearest car yard and "help yourself"

:jerry:

[avgas]

"41% of the people think the kids should just help themselves" I don't see a problem, there should therefore no longer be any hungry kids at school, just pop down the road and help yourself. Changes are that was 100% of small to medium business owners so the local dairy or restaurant would be a good place to start, oh and if you need a ride to school just pop into the nearest car yard and "help yourself"

:jerry:
That's a bit silly.
Why break the law when the government can give it to you for free. You just have to ask.

[oneofsix]

That's a bit silly.
Why break the law when the government can give it to you for free. You just have to ask.

:nono: these 41% were saying no handouts, they have to help themselves :corn:

[mashman]

:nono: these 41% were saying no handouts, they have to help themselves :corn:

:killingme ... I think we've flushed out the leader boys.

[avgas]

:nono: these 41% were saying no handouts, they have to help themselves :corn:
Context is a lovely thing though.
Statistics have shown that in some areas of Auckland there has been a decrease in wild cats and increase in chinese food.
41% of people said in a survey that they are unhappy with the way handouts are given. 1 wildcard could have said "they should just bloody help themselves" and suddenly......
"41% were saying no handouts, they have to help themselves"

Good thing us motorcyclists are all gang rapists with no jobs except for dealing drugs aye.

[Road kill]

cant help wondering why the people who are least able to look after and care for their kids have so many

I've often wondered why the people that are so able to look after and care for their kids have so few.

Not to worry,,,it's going to come back and bite you white cunts exactly where you deserve it before much longer anyway.

In fact as smokey pointed out,it already is,,,,right:motu:

[scumdog]

There is no child starvation or child poverty problem. What we have is adults in poverty and/or famine breeding like rats, fully aware that they can not, or do not intend to, give the child the necessities for life.

True - any other species would breed themselves to a level they could be sustained.

Or perish But humans don't like to perish.

But they DO like to breed and depend on others for support.

And demand to be supported.
Weird eh...:crazy:

I could do a thesis on that...

[scumdog]

I take your point, but smoking tobacco doesn't lead to violence,

Except when robbing a shop for smokes...

[BoristheBiter]

:killingme ... I think we've flushed out the leader boys.

Is that like lederhosen? then they should be washed not flushed, unless there was an accident in which case keep flushing.

[mashman]

Except when robbing a shop for smokes...

Rose tinted specs there? Stealing = violence

[scumdog]

Rose tinted specs there? Stealing = violence

I didn't say 'stealing'

I said 'robbing'

It's kinda stealing with violence or threat of violence so it seems:shifty:

[mashman]

I didn't say 'stealing'

I said 'robbing'

It's kinda stealing with violence or threat of violence so it seems:shifty:

pardon, je ne comprend pas le langue de porc...