Hyosung GT250 vs Yamaha Scorpio for 1st bike & commuting? [Archive]

scary

30th November 2011, 07:28

nzspokes

30th November 2011, 07:31

Try sit on both. Very different bikes. Tigadee has both, ask him if you can go over and sit on them and go Brmmmmmmm.

oneofsix

30th November 2011, 07:40

I would have said the Scorpio as it is lighter and more easily manoeuvred through traffic. However I have to agree with nzspokes because in the end it is what suits and feels right to you.
BTW this is KB we do not Brmmmmm here (the bike does the brmmmm)

Jase H

30th November 2011, 16:09

My Scorpio has been bomb proof. Just about to hit 41,000kms and so far only changed consumable items and chain. One thing to watch out for is that at only 124kgs (the bike - not me :-) ), it's very easily blown about in the sort of windy conditions we've had lately.

Not wanting to sound like a record but as the others say try both and see what fits. I'm only 167 cm so the lower seat height of the Scorpio suits me better. A taller person may find it too low, however.

Good luck with finding something - happy riding.

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 18:17

Hello everyone, I'm looking at getting a 250 to get to work on in Auckland city. I live out in Henderson so its going to beat the heck out of the train. I've got my 6L and I'm looking to spend under $3K on a second hand bike. So far I've narrowed the choice down to the two bikes in the title of the post. I'm torn between the alleged bomb-proof nature of the Scorpio vs the larger frame and broader appeal of the Comet. Can people chip in with their 2c on their preference for either bike and any potential pitfalls or things to look out for for someone buying their 1st bike.

I'm watching a bunch on Trademe and I'm ready to go shopping. Gonna pick up helmet, boots, gloves & trousers this weekend, I think.

Cheers,
Scary

interesting pick of options, theres fuckall in common between the two!

Have you actually ridden either of them?

People come on here all the time, with 'what bike is best for me' - simple answer is that only you know. We can only tell you what WE would buy, but we arent you. Take both for a test ride - a decent ride, not just around the block. run it through town, down the motorway, and through a carpark or two. See how each feels at motorway speeds, consider how nice each of them are to ride through town, and look at how their low speed handling is in carparks etc. Think about how comfortable it will be on a longer ride, and think about the body position.
After youve done this on BOTH bikes, the answer to which one is right for you will be abundantly clear in your mind, and of the answer ISNT clear, then NEITHER of them are the right bike for you.

Sable

30th November 2011, 18:42

Hyosungs have a bad rep for bits breaking even whilst relatively new.

blackdog

30th November 2011, 18:47

Hyosungs have a bad rep for bits breaking even whilst relatively new.

What a load of shite. Apart from the petcock issue on very early models they are as reliable as any jappers.

As good as the scorpio is, I would own the Hyo first due to superiority in size and power.

scary

30th November 2011, 19:20

Take both for a test ride - a decent ride, not just around the block. run it through town, down the motorway, and through a carpark or two. See how each feels at motorway speeds, consider how nice each of them are to ride through town, and look at how their low speed handling is in carparks etc. Think about how comfortable it will be on a longer ride, and think about the body position.
After youve done this on BOTH bikes, the answer to which one is right for you will be abundantly clear in your mind, and of the answer ISNT clear, then NEITHER of them are the right bike for you.

I appreciate your comment about how different the two bikes are but who do you think is going to lend a complete noob a bike for the length of time you are describing? They'd have to be mental. I only passed my BHS a month ago. I've got no experience to tell which bike is superior, even if I did ride them both. The learning curve ahead of me is so steep that the one I liked most from first impressions I could hate in a month. That's why I'm posting here. I'd appreciate it if you elaborated on the differences, though.

Thanks for the other replies. I've seen peeps hating on Hyosungs on here already and I've seen people defending them. I'm happy with the defence's case and from what I've read it seems like a lot of bike for the money so its still on my short list. :sunny:

Ender EnZed

30th November 2011, 19:24

As good as the scorpio is, I would own the Hyo first due to superiority in size and power.

+1

3 grand is enough for an unfucked GT250 and if you're comfortable with the extra weight then you'll probably enjoy it more. That said, you'll get a newer, better condition Scorpio for the same price that will be easier to learn to ride on and give little away around town.

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 19:49

I appreciate your comment about how different the two bikes are but who do you think is going to lend a complete noob a bike for the length of time you are describing? They'd have to be mental. I only passed my BHS a month ago. I've got no experience to tell which bike is superior, even if I did ride them both. The learning curve ahead of me is so steep that the one I liked most from first impressions I could hate in a month. That's why I'm posting here. I'd appreciate it if you elaborated on the differences, though.

Thanks for the other replies. I've seen peeps hating on Hyosungs on here already and I've seen people defending them. I'm happy with the defence's case and from what I've read it seems like a lot of bike for the money so its still on my short list. :sunny:

very few private sellers are retarded enough to think theyre going to sell their bike without letting potential buyers take it for a test ride. The old 'you break it, you buy it' applies for your test ride, as you would expect.
Most dealers that have second hand bikes would be happy to let people test ride a bike as well.

As far as superior, define superior? for person A, the hyo would be for superior, for others, the scorpio is - it depends on far too many things that you havent told us, and you dont need to be Valentino Rossi to know that the bike you just rode felt comfortable, fit you well, and that you liked it.

If it was me, It take the hyo, because im 6ft+, Im kind of a fat cunt, and I would rape the fuck out of a scorpio, if anyone could fuck one, it'd be me.

If you want us to provide a generic answer to which would be better for you, then we need to know
your rough size/weight (are you a fat cunt or a beanpole of midget proportions?)
where you live/where you intend to ride it
how many kms you do a week
what kind of riding? in town/suburban commute? highway commute? rallies? occaisional long rides? take it out for 300km every saturday?
will you be carting gear and shit? how much? how often?
do you like to go everywhere quickly, or are you a nana who goes everywhere at 30kays because you have glaucoma?

as for the differences, one is a single cylinder thumper, the other a v twin - very different engine characteristics
one weighs as much as my wife, (two fifths of fuck all) the other weights closer to a small grizzly bear (ok, not that heavy.)
one is realistically designed to be pootled around town on, the other is (IMO) by far more versatile and more comfortable for a wider range of applications.
one is very small, the other is a full sized bike.

scary

30th November 2011, 20:25

jrandom

30th November 2011, 20:28

I've done 40,000km ish on Scorpios in the last few years. I recommend one because I am biased on account of the fact that they are awesome.

Rode a Hyosung 250 once and didn't really like it. Uncomfortable, big and heavy for a 250, not very nimble, unnecessarily cramped riding position, covered in plastic so that the moment you drop it it looks like poos... doesn't seem ideal to me.

I don't really understand the thought processes of people who buy Hyosungs. I can only assume that they are uninformed. The only people I've ever seen recommend Hyosungs are people who haven't ridden fuck-all else.

Try doing THIS on a Hyosung 250:

mw1ihEitncs

The Hyosung GV650 cruiser is a bit of a sleeper, mind you. But it's not a learner bike. Probably more the sort of thing you'd have after you'd been around the block umpteen dozen times and owned and ridden many different things and decided that you really, genuinely didn't care about what other people thought.

Anyway, scary - get a Scorpio. They're a better bike. And they're made by Yamaha and don't break.

allycatz

30th November 2011, 20:41

My 1.78m 89 kg partner rode my scorpio to work last week. He found it very light against the wind and pushing it to go much over 100km's. He does however normally ride a gsx1400 so wasn't surprised it was a different ride than hes used to. For me its great (5 '4 and 75kg). If your confident riding I would say the Hyo as it will probs last you through your restricted whereas the Scorpio you would probably out grow

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 20:44

Awesome reply mate, thanks.

I am 32 years & 9 months old, 182cm and I weigh about eighty <cough!> kilos, so my BMI's just inside normal. I like to get places in a hurry, particularly work (hence the bike for commuting). Work is 22km away along Lincoln Road and the North Western Motorway. It'll be a fine-weather commute at first but I anticipate riding in all conditions once I'm confident enough. I don't have too many big plans for 300km weekend rides although it would be nice to be able to tow my longboard up to Mangawhai on the weekends and beat the traffic. Has anyone actually tried this, BTW? Anyway, I won't be carting much more than a rucksack and I'm definitely not in the glaucoma crew but I'm not a mentalist either.

You've done a great job of selling the Hyo to me there too, although Ender EnZed has a good point to make about getting a newer Scorpio for the money. I might go and see if I can sit on a Scorpio this weekend to see if it feels like a kids toy. The problem is that I've only done 2hrs on a GN250 for my BHS so I'm going to want to trailer the bike home and pootle around the suburbs for at least a day or two before I even think about breaking the speed limit. :shutup:

if It were me, for the reasons in Red, Id get the Hyo.
Id personally get a scorpio ONLy if I was doing non-highway commuting.

You hear people say 'oh but I do 50km a day on the highway on my scorpio and go to all the rallies loaded up on it etc etc' to which i respond that Just because you CAN fuck a fat chick, doesnt mean that you should.

Sounds to me like the hyo would be a tad better for your needs, but you will get plenty of people who will sing the praises of either bike... and they each have their haters too

jrandom

30th November 2011, 20:47

My 1.78m 89 kg partner rode my scorpio to work last week. He found it very light against the wind and pushing it to go much over 100km's. He does however normally ride a gsx1400

I had a GSX1400 and a Scorpio sitting together in the garage for a couple of years.

I tended to take the Scorpio, unless I was actually leaving town.

the Scorpio you would probably out grow

Bollocks. The Scorpio's not a bike you 'outgrow'. It's a transport appliance that goes forever and will give heaps of faster-on-paper bikes some very unexpected learns if you put proper tyres on it.

jrandom

30th November 2011, 20:48

... to which i respond that Just because you CAN fuck a fat chick, doesnt mean that you should.

That's true. I should stop fucking fat chicks.

I'm keeping my Scorpio, though.

blackdog

30th November 2011, 20:50

The Hyosung GV650 cruiser is a bit of a sleeper, mind you. But it's not a learner bike. Probably more the sort of thing you'd have after you'd been around the block umpteen dozen times and owned and ridden many different things and decided that you really, genuinely didn't care about what other people thought.

Anyway, scary - get a Scorpio. They're a better bike. And they're made by Yamaha and don't break.

Another fuckstick with no idea. And for your information come October next year the GV650 will be a learner bike. You sir are a cock of the highest order that really has no idea what he is talking about.

There is no reason whatsoever that you can't do that on a Hyo.

jrandom

30th November 2011, 20:53

You sir have a cock of the highest order

Well, yes, that's what the fat chicks keep telling me.

There is no reason whatsoever that you can't do that on a Hyo.

Correct. I bet you couldn't, though.

blackdog

30th November 2011, 21:00

Correct. I bet you couldn't, though.

Time and place monkey boy and we will see. If you like you can have your SX, I'm sure I know someone who will lend me a Hyo to rub your nose in it.

kiwifruit

30th November 2011, 21:00

You sir are a cock of the highest order that really has no idea what he is talking about.

I bet you couldn't, though.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WIGQArdu7Qc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
. .

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:04

Time and place monkey boy and we will see. If you like you can have your SX I'm sure I know someone who will lend me a Hyo to rub your nose in it.

Really?

NZ$500 says you on a Hyosung GT250R can't beat me on a Scorpio at the next http://www.gymkhana.co.nz/ event [edit: that's where we took that film].

Money on the table from each of us, up front on the day.

I'm entirely serious.

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 21:07

Bollocks. The Scorpio's not a bike you 'outgrow'. It's a transport appliance that goes forever and will give heaps of faster-on-paper bikes some very unexpected learns if you put proper tyres on it.
untill you leave the carpark...
yes you can learn to be relatively quick on a scorp, but to do so, you need to work hard, and the bike will be getting thrashed as well. most people would prefer to be on a bigger, more superior bike that can do the same stuff without being thrashed, or without needing you to work hard to do it.

Well, yes, that's what the fat chicks keep telling me.

Correct. I bet you couldn't, though.

Time and place monkey boy and we will see. If you like you can have your SX, I'm sure I know someone who will lend me a Hyo to rub your nose in it.
If you two wanna tear each others clothes off and make love, I believe there is a section on KB for such intimate online liaisons, its called PD.

scary

30th November 2011, 21:08

Just because you CAN fuck a fat chick, doesnt mean that you should.

But . . . what if they're hot fat chicks?

:2thumbsup

Ender EnZed

30th November 2011, 21:13

NZ$500 says you on a Hyosung GT250R can't beat me on a Scorpio at the next http://www.gymkhana.co.nz/ event [edit: that's where we took that film].

I imagine most people would be faster around a carpark on a Scorpio. Many people would be (and were) even faster on 50cc scooter but that doesn't make me want a scooter.

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 21:14

But . . . what if they're hot fat chicks?

:2thumbsup

I thought I told you to leave my mum outta this!:crazy:

kiwifruit

30th November 2011, 21:15

*Start a thread about learner bikes*

NEK MINNIT

:corn::corn::corn:

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:15

yes you can learn to be relatively quick on a scorp, but to do so, you need to work hard

You think one doesn't have work hard to learn to be 'relatively quick' on any bike?

Scorpios are a lot more forgiving to do it on than anything else, bar scooters.

most people would prefer...

Most people don't know what's good for them.

This is why I am posting here in this thread today.

If you two wanna tear each others clothes off and make love

I really doubt I'll get any reply to my offer. It's a shame, because it'd be easy money for me, and everyone else at the event would make him pay up, too.

blackdog - I'm open to negotiation if $500 is too much for your budget?

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 21:15

I imagine most people would be faster around a carpark on a Scorpio. Many people would be (and were) even faster on 50cc scooter but that doesn't make me want a scooter.

+1:shifty::Punk:

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:16

Many people would be (and were) even faster on 50cc scooter

Faster? No. The Scorpio beat the scooters on the day as, bro. Not even close.

Scorpios give many learns to many things. Disrespect them at your peril.

blackdog

30th November 2011, 21:17

Really?

NZ$500 says you on a Hyosung GT250R can't beat me on a Scorpio at the next http://www.gymkhana.co.nz/ event [edit: that's where we took that film].

Money on the table from each of us, up front on the day.

I'm entirely serious.

That's a big call mate. I will see if I can get a GT250 (without the R) for a day to play with you, but I am confident enough with my skills that I think we should make it $5000. You have never met me and I am entirely serious.

allycatz

30th November 2011, 21:19

I imagine most people would be faster around a carpark on a Scorpio. Many people would be (and were) even faster on 50cc scooter but that doesn't make me want a scooter.

He he Ive got both and at the moment I AM faster on a scooter.....:facepalm:

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:22

That's a big call mate. I will see if I can get a GT250 (without the R) for a day to play with you, but I am confident enough with my skills that I think we should make it $5000. You have never met me and I am entirely serious.

Exciting times! I don't have 5 grand to put on the table, $500 will have to do.

Where are you based?

nzspokes

30th November 2011, 21:26

I would own the Hyo first due to superiority in size and power.

Not quite true, Hyos have a smaller rider area as your knees are at a more extreme angle than on the Scorpio. Ive sat on them back to back. It may well be a faster position but its not learner friendly.

blackdog

30th November 2011, 21:26

Exciting times! I don't have 5 grand to put on the table, $500 will have to do.

Where are you based?

If you don't have the stakes then I guess you can't play the game.

I am in Wellington though, and I am looking forward to taking your $500 off you, so next time there is a gymkhana here I am more than looking forward to meeting you.

nzspokes

30th November 2011, 21:27

Exciting times! I don't have 5 grand to put on the table, $500 will have to do.

Where are you based?

Id put $500(if I had it) that you would be faster then me on my bike.

tigertim20

30th November 2011, 21:31

You think one doesn't have work hard to learn to be 'relatively quick' on any bike?

Scorpios are a lot more forgiving to do it on than anything else, bar scooters.

a whole world exists outside the parking lot. in most real world circumstances, a bigger bike is going to be much easier to ride quickly, with little effort, a short ride from dunedin to Oamaru would adequately highlight this. the scorp would get thrashed, and the rider would need to be constantly on it to get there in a reasonable time, a bigger bike, lets say a hyosung 650 (picking a pretty average bike here) would do the same ride with fuckall effort. sit and tap the gas whenever you hit a hill/passing lane/come into a higher speed area etc etc. So yes, I am most certainly saying that you do less work on a bigger bike to do an equal speed.

Most people don't know what's good for them.

This is why I am posting here in this thread today.

I think that perhaps you should read this thread, its clearly written for you:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/144324-Why-can-t-Kiwi-Bikers-accept...

I really doubt I'll get any reply to my offer. It's a shame, because it'd be easy money for me, and everyone else at the event would make him pay up, too.

blackdog - I'm open to negotiation if $500 is too much for your budget?
Blackdog, PLEASE take this idiots money!!!

I'm entirely serious.

good thing that you take yourself seriously, cos nobody else seems to!:facepalm:

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:34

Really?

NZ$500 says you on a Hyosung GT250R can't beat me on a Scorpio at the next http://www.gymkhana.co.nz/ event [edit: that's where we took that film].

Money on the table from each of us, up front on the day.

I'm entirely serious.

next time there is a gymkhana here...

Heh! You should've specified a Wellington venue before agreeing, dude. Did you even click on my link?

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:36

I think that perhaps you should read this thread, its clearly written for you:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if that thread's OP did actually have me in mind, yes.

blackdog

30th November 2011, 21:42

Heh! You should've specified a Wellington venue before agreeing, dude. Did you even click on my link?

Any weekend any time dickhead. We can work out the logistics. There is no point in talking smack, let's organise a time and place.

You have called me out and I have picked up your gauntlet.

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:45

a bigger bike, not a learner bike, lets say a hyosung 650, or a Triumph Rocket III, would do the same ride with fuckall effort. sit and tap the gas whenever you hit a hill/passing lane/come into a higher speed area etc etc.

Yes. True. The OP should buy a Rocket III.

jrandom

30th November 2011, 21:46

Any weekend any time dickhead. We can work out the logistics. There is no point in talking smack, let's organise a time and place.

You're agreeing to come to Taupo?

jrandom

30th November 2011, 22:00

*blackdog is thinking about it*

I'm going to bed, man, I'll check the thread in the morning. But I'm not travelling for this shit and eating into my profit (or increasing my loss, perhaps - you sound fast!) and I did make the location clear with the link in my initial post.

So, come to the next Taupo gymkhana if you wish, and we'll have a race for $500.

Perhaps it'll be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

You sound a bit angry, though, so maybe not.

Sometimes I really do wish that we could all just be friends.

tigertim20

1st December 2011, 11:03

Yes. True. The OP should buy a Rocket III.

of course not you MORON.
an 1198 is MUCH prettier for a newbie

Fast Eddie

1st December 2011, 15:26

this is what you want

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-426599022.htm

tigertim20

1st December 2011, 16:39

fuck Id have that in a heartbeat.
Im very serious.

DrunkenMistake

1st December 2011, 16:53

Ignore the two love birds,
and ignore the 'not learner friendly comments'

I had a Scorpio for a few weeks on lend after my 400 was stolen and wrecked, and it was great for up to 70km/h riding, anything more than that it was slow and shook like Christchurch, Also found I just got soaked in the rain on it,
I have had sports bikes my entire biking life I will admit, but I find even when it buckets down I only get damp knees unless I have to stop at lights, and my jacket will be wet but it doesnt get soaked,
There is NO such thing as a 'non learner friendly bike' thats the bottom line, There is only what you find comfortable and what you learn to ride, I got an older CBR 250 as my first bike and it felt fucked up to ride for the first week, leaning over the tank and shit, doesnt mean 6 months down the track I was riding it like baby rossi,
Long story short sit on as many bikes as you can, and try and test ride as many as you can,
I would honestly take the Hyo over the Yamaha due to the fact that you will outgrow and be bored of the scorp within a few months,

If your gonna anything out of this thread to date,
Its that everyone on KB thinks so highly of themselves they make keyboard warrior wagers, and that at the end of the day its your decision and it should only be your decision, hope this helps you out, if you wanna know anything or need help with anything feel free to PM me.

tigertim20

1st December 2011, 17:00

If your gonna anything out of this thread to date,
Its that at the end of the day its your decision and it should only be your decision, .
+1, whats right for you, not what others think is right for them

scary

1st December 2011, 21:02

Thanks for the considerate words, DrunkenMistake. I've been on a few forums before so I'm used to the flame wars & ignoring trolls. I'll take your advice this weekend when I go and sit on both bikes and maybe run them up and down a quiet road if I get the chance.

Yes. True. The OP should buy a Rocket III.

That is a truly ridiculous vehicle. I'd rather buy a Honda 90 than that. At least H90s are practical!

Boom.

jrandom

1st December 2011, 21:07

That is a truly ridiculous vehicle. I'd rather buy a Honda 90 than that. At least H90s are practical!

Now that's the spirit.

I'll take your advice this weekend when I go and sit on both bikes and maybe run them up and down a quiet road if I get the chance.

Yes. Do that. Then buy whatever's choicest.

scary

1st December 2011, 22:19

Now that's the spirit.

Yes. Do that. Then buy whatever's choicest.

Word!

& thanks for the entertainment :jerry::msn-wink:

Edit>>>

Can you lovely bikefiends do me a favour and run your eyes over this TradeMe advert (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=428061875). What do you reckon about the cold start story? Is it dodgy or worth pitching an offer on?

tigertim20

1st December 2011, 22:28

maybe he just isnt using the choke when its cold?

go and look at it. find someone knowledgeable to take with you and look at it. make it clear to the seller that you want the bike to be cold when you get there, so that you can see exactly what theyre talking about - dont just take their word for it.
And NEVER buy a vehicle without getting it looked over first.

check it out, THEN consider making an offer

DrunkenMistake

1st December 2011, 22:48

Word!

& thanks for the entertainment :jerry::msn-wink:

Edit>>>

Can you lovely bikefiends do me a favour and run your eyes over this TradeMe advert (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=428061875). What do you reckon about the cold start story? Is it dodgy or worth pitching an offer on?

Sounds like its just a lack of the choke,
my bike HATES been ridden cold, spits and chokes and bucks and all sorts of shit, give it 2 mins of steady riding at 50k's and she comes right, warms up quick enough.
Check it out and ask about the choke, if he uses the choke to start it when you are there, see where the needle rises to, if it sits at 1,500rpm is WITH the choke on, then its possible the choke cable has snapped, its possible the person selling is clueless to what the choke does, I have met people like that, if the needle rises to 4 - 5,000rpm then it could be a good indication that the bike isnt been wamred up long enough, let it sit at that point for a few mins, then ask for a test ride if it spits and fucks about then it could be something serious, but my guess is its just not warmed up properly

Fast Eddie

2nd December 2011, 08:47

... if the needle rises to 4 - 5,000rpm then it could be a good indication that the bike isnt been wamred up long enough, let it sit at that point for a few mins, then ask for a test ride if it spits and fucks about then it could be something serious, but my guess is its just not warmed up properly

sit at 5,000 rpm for a few mins! jeeezus... :facepalm:

Dodger

2nd December 2011, 09:27

Well Ive had my 2006 GT250 from new, and have now just passed the 75000km mark.
It's got me from Wellington down to the Burt Munro in Invercargill twice, and is used to and from work (30km each way) with a pillion rider.

No major problems other than being hit by a car. :crazy:
Bike start first time everytime with just a push of the button.

GrayWolf

2nd December 2011, 12:04

Interesting that some think those who reccomend the Hyo's have only ever ridden them? Anyway, as a non 250 user, I have ridden hyo's of various capacities. The GT (not GT-R) is a good all round bike, if I had to own a 250 again, it would be in the serious consideration list,,,, as would a VT250.
The Scorpio, was/is set to become the GN250 of the 21st century :pinch:... I have a GN (missus's) sitting in the garage. Fantastic little commuter, economical, cheap maintanance. BUT! Open road speeds? Oh dear, it WILL do 100kph+ but in reality 90kph is it's 'cruising' speed. Over 80-90 the acceleration is Hmmmmm! The hyo would give better service on open roads and longer distances.
The advantange of both is they are numerous (s/h spares in case of a bin) and there will be a lot of s/h ones about.