Hiviz. Am I a dork?

[rocketman1]

I have taken to wearing a Hiviz (bright greeny yellow) top lately while riding, but my mates think I look a bit of dork.
I don't really care ..............but then do a bit.

I tell what changed my mind; A couple of weeks ago I was coming out of the intersection at Whakamaru, besides the burnt out petrol station and coffee shop,( thousands will know the intersection) turning right towards the Dam.
I was raining hard and I was driving my CAR. I stopped and looked twice both ways and proceeded right, just as I was turning this big black JEEP turned right in front of me. F--K I missed him by inches, but up till then I never saw him at all. He gave me the finger and filthy look (rightly so I suppose).
This didnt worry me, it was my own fault, I could not believe I had not seen him, such a big vehicle.
I started to doubt my own, sanity and eyes for a while afterwards, and stopped and looked about 3 times each way all the home at each corner/ intersection, a bit of an overkill I know.
Two things I thought about immediately was shite! what if I was on my bike, or the Jeep had been a bike.
Reflecting on it driving home, I realize that it was quite dark, raining heavy, about 3pm the Jeep was black, against a dark back ground of pine trees , and it did not have its lights on.
All the things to make it as invisible as possible.

This has made me change my mind to wear a fluoro top, and riding my bike with full lights on.

Am I a Dork?

[unstuck]

Not in my book, you would be a dork if you listened to what your so called mates are saying about you wearing it though.:yes:

[Hopeful Bastard]

Yes and no.

Dork for turning in front of Jeep.

Jeep a fucking tosspot for not running lights in such dreadful conditions.

You for having a Hi vis.. Nah. Some of the most experienced riders wear them mate. As for me, I used to wear them.. But my jacket is also Blue, Silver and Black.. So have kinda stopped wearing them. Personal Preference.

[BigAl]

Whatever floats your boat.

More and more riders are wearing hi-vis these days and I wonder whether the law makers will use this fact to add to justification for making them compulsory.

[Hitcher]

Am I a Dork?

If you think that wearing hi vis will make you safer, yes. If you ride with your light on high beam, irritating the shit out of other road users, definitely yes. Buy a car.

[paturoa]

Yes absolutley, a high vis vest will make a smidsy less likely, question is .... 50% safer, 0.5% safer, or 0.0000005% safer. The jury is out and no-one will ever agree.

Some even argue that if everyone wore one, you'd be less safe, but then again the earth is flat.

I think that one of the main reasons that cagers get killed by trucks and trains is that the truck drivers and train "engineers" don't wear their high vis vests.

Personally I believe that being alert, being attentive, being aware do more.

... oh and I already look like a drok anyway, so a Hviz wont make me worse... ?

[Rosso]

I don't usually bother commenting on this type of post, but it struck me as appropriate because today was my first trip over the bridge to Coleman's Suzuki in central Auckland , and I put on my Hi Viz for the first time because it made me feel that little bit more secure and visable .
When I say for the first time , I mean in 7 months of which I spent 6 of on crutches and still have to have surgery to have plates removed.
In the past I used to think that wearing Hi viz was not that cool but now I don't give a shit what other people think , matter of fact I find most of my riding mates are wearing them more especially when riding around the city .
Believe me after what my wife and I have had to suffer after a car driver wiped me out on a roundabout when she failed to give away to her right after stopping , then saying she didn't see me I will do anything too make myself safer on the road and it won't stop me from riding free as long as I can.
Good on you mate,
a fellow " dork" ?????

[Crasherfromwayback]

Of course you're a dork. People cross railway tracks in front of fucking trains and get smashed by them. They're a shitload easier to spot than some dork on a bike with a high vis.

It's because the useless fuckers aren't looking properly. So you have to pay more attention to them, rather than dressing like a dork thinking that'll save your ass.

[DrunkenMistake]

252268

I nearly got swiped at an intersection ages ago, so I started wearing a high vis vest,
Wore it for a month, and I had more near misses in that month than I did without it.

I might start wearing it again during summer as I found when its a calm sunny day you dont really see the outline of a bike very well, never hurts,

I wouldnt worry about what people think its your safety in the end of the day if you think it will save your life, then wear it.

[Berries]

No, you're not a dork if you think it is going to make you less likely to get knocked off. Personally I don't think they make one iota of difference. You've got your headlight on and people will still pull out on you. As has been said, people pull out in front of trains. And so many more cars pull out in front of trucks and other cars than bikes that you have to face the facts.

Your frontal profile is small, you don't take up all the lane like a car, you might be hidden by the roof pillar for a second or two, or a tree. Car drivers have more distractions than riders, comfort, warmth, cell phones, radios, passengers, coffee and biscuits, the dog, the bottle of water, the mince and cheese pie, the girlfriend in the lap etc etc etc. And you're probably traveling a bit faster than a car driver would expect you to be because you are a rufty tufty biker. I don't think it matters what you wear, or whether you have your lights on. You have to ride as if that person you have eye contact with is going to pull out on you, or the car ahead that just stopped is going to pull a u-turn as you go past. Because one day they will.

If you do think that a hi-viz is going to make you more visible and less likely to have someone pull out on you and ride accordingly then what's the point? They will pull out on you anyway. If you rely on other people to do the right thing when you are riding a bike you are pretty much fucked.

So yes, you're a dork. If that answers the question. But at least they'll be able to find the body easier in the dark.

That was a lighthearted response, but riding with your light on full beam will get me putting mine on full beam as well in the hope that I blind you. I don't understand that one at all.

[Roadsafe Nelson]

People will always have opinions.. yours is all that matters however :yes:

& those that make the most noise.. usually have the most to learn..... :msn-wink:

[Berries]

Nice Mondeo.

Never understood that advert, or any of the Fate ones. Is it promoting twin headlights, or filtering to the front of the queue?

[Hitcher]

and I put on my Hi Viz for the first time because it made me feel that little bit more secure and visable .

It's that delusional thinking that is one of my biggest concerns about high vis apparel. Passive measures, like gear and lights, aren't the solution. Riders need to own their riding, control the space that they occupy, anticipate and plan for the unexpected actions of people driving other vehicles on the road.

[Cloggy]

I don't wear one, and am not planning on wearing one anytime soon.
But I must admit that hi-vis works at getting noticed from a long way out. In my morning commute I do notice motorcyclists many hundreds of metres away in traffic because they are wearing hi-vis. That might improve your safety somewhat if another roaduser has spotted you that far ahead and eventually catches up with you or reaches the spot where you are. They might remember seeing you there earlier.
I don't know if it works the same at short range when another road user pulls out in front of you from a side street or driveway. If they haven't noticed or seen your bright headlight, I think there is little chance of them spotting a hi-vis vest behind that bright headlight.

[Berries]

Riders need to own their riding, control the space that they occupy, anticipate and plan for the unexpected actions of people driving other vehicles on the road.
Motorcyclists Own The Options. Someone should use that phrase.

[Flip]

The only reason high viz works, by that I mean have less accidents is that the rider who voluntarily wear them are more cautious, are better at acessing risk and hence have a better attitude towards their own road safety. It's their attitude that is reducing their accident rate, they would be better safer riders weather they were wearing high viz or not.

And you still look like a dork in a vest!

[tigertim20]

Am I a Dork?

Yes.
Youre like the kid that comes to school in full uniform, knee high socks and all.
On mufti day.

willingly.

[superman]

Yes.
Youre like the kid that comes to school in full uniform, knee high socks and all.
On mufti day.

willingly.

Don't forget the briefcase.

[caspernz]

Does it matter to you what anyone thinks you look like? In 25 years of riding, I've only gone to wearing a hiviz vest in the past year. It's hard to tell whether it makes a tangible difference, you get some people doing a double take and wait for you, but I wouldn't want to give up being prepared to go evasive in case they still pull out on me.
By nature I'm what might be called a safe n sensible rider, so in wearing the hiviz I'm just seeing that as doing all I can to be seen. Still ride the same way as before the hiviz went on though, safe following distances, good positioning on road/lane, and most of all have a degree of patience to go with the flow instead of tearing up thru slow moving traffic. Mind you, while I ride to work rain or shine, shiftwork means I never travel with the bulk of commuter traffic.
So are you a dork? Well, as the saying goes....if you gotta ask... Wear the vest, ride the same way as before, tell us all in a month or so what you've discovered?

[whowhatwhere]

I wear one. Does it make a difference? No idea, but there's no harm in trying.

If people look at us and think we're dorks, then they've obviously seen us to be able to make that judgement!

[sinfull]

Do what ya fucking like, fancy having to ask a silly question like that in here, what a dork !

[riffer]

In my opinion, having tried a high-viz vest for a year daily, it didn't make any difference. It's more to do with road presence and not being meek about it. Own the road and people will give you way.

I reckon for best visibility a high-viz vest must be complemented by a White ST1300 (with panniers and a blue light on a pole at the rear) and a white Shoei Multitec helmet.

[MSTRS]

... it made me feel that little bit more secure and visable ...
And this, folks, is completely the wrong reason for anyone to wear hi-vis. Feeling is NOT being.

[oneofsix]

I wear one. Does it make a difference? No idea, but there's no harm in trying.

If people look at us and think we're dorks, then they've obviously seen us to be able to make that judgement!

the problem is humans are like Ogres and come with many layers, so whilst they've seen you as a dork it doesn't mean they've seen you as a road user. This is why I say black is the best hi-viz, because our primitive brain see black (shadows or the dark) as scary, especially big black things like me.

[Scuba_Steve]

The only reason high viz works, by that I mean have less accidents is that the rider who voluntarily wear them are more cautious, are better at acessing risk and hence have a better attitude towards their own road safety. It's their attitude that is reducing their accident rate, they would be better safer riders weather they were wearing high viz or not.

And you still look like a dork in a vest!

I call bullshit! I think what you might be trying to say is right but the way you said it is bullshit. I am just as good if not better at assessing risk & have just as good attitude for my own safety. However the difference I think is I'll assess & dependant of the risk level may choose to take the risk, whereas the hi-vis will not. So the 1st part about being more cautious is right, But being better at assessing risk & attitude for own safety, Bullshit!

[Flip]

I call bullshit! I think what you might be trying to say is right but the way you said it is bullshit. I am just as good if not better at assessing risk & have just as good attitude for my own safety. However the difference I think is I'll assess & dependant of the risk level may choose to take the risk, whereas the hi-vis will not. So the 1st part about being more cautious is right, But being better at assessing risk & attitude for own safety, Bullshit!


Please read what you tried to write, it does not make much sense.

How do you explain why the high viz wearers have a 34% less chance of having an accident?

[Scuba_Steve]

Please read what you tried to write, it does not make much sense.

How do you explain why the high viz wearers have a 34% less chance of having an accident?

the type of person they are means they are less likely to take a 'calculated risk' or test their limits a bit. Not that they are better at calculating the risk or have more respect for their safety.

^ that was probably the simpler way I should have written it

[avgas]

Shit I am lucky if I remember to wear pants on a motorbike.

I just make damn sure I don't crash into large avoidable objects like Jeeps. Has worked for me since 2004. (Before then I was young and stoopid)

[avgas]

Please read what you tried to write, it does not make much sense.

How do you explain why the high viz wearers have a 34% less chance of having an accident?

I can help a little on this figure. I am part of it right now.
I am wearing a hi-viz, using a computer to chat on KB. It would be rather difficult for me to have an accident don't you think? I don't even know how I would power the computer on the motorbike let alone typing while riding.

[Flip]

the type of person they are means they are less likely to take a 'calculated risk' or test their limits a bit. Not that they are better at calculating the risk or have more respect for their safety.

^ that was probably the simpler way I should have written it

I would suggest that a rider who takes a calculated risk and fucks it up means that he did not understand the risk he was taking. A rider who understands the risks before he puts the keys in the ignition is, by definition better at acessing risk.

There are old riders and bold riders but there are no old bold riders.

[Crasherfromwayback]

.

There are old riders and bold riders but there are no old bold riders.

I disagree. The old bold riders are just lucky as well.

[Scuba_Steve]

I would suggest that a rider who takes a calculated risk and fucks it up means that he did not understand the risk he was taking. A rider who understands the risks before he puts the keys in the ignition is, by definition better at acessing risk.

There are old riders and bold riders but there are no old bold riders.

I would disagree you still put the key in don't you?
Using the road is a calculated risk, riding a bike more so. Lane splitting another calculated risk, as is "back roads" (they tend to be less maintained yet more fun). we all calculate the risk & decide whether the risk is too great or not (personally), Just cause they wear hi-vis does not make them any better or worse at that. But they are less likely to be the ones taking the back roads or lane splitting etc they tend to be a more cautious breed. Doesn't mean they are better riders, doesn't mean they are better at assessing risk, just means they are more cautious

[caspernz]

I disagree. The old bold riders are just lucky as well.

Lots of truth in that. In general I'd go with the view that stacking the deck in your favour when you're on two wheels is a good start. To me that includes the hiviz stuff, but also maintenance, good tyres, rider training etc. Funny how luck can become a smaller part of the equation this way...

[Flip]

I would disagree you still put the key in don't you?
Using the road is a calculated risk, riding a bike more so. Lane splitting another calculated risk, as is "back roads" (they tend to be less maintained yet more fun). we all calculate the risk & decide whether the risk is too great or not (personally), Just cause they wear hi-vis does not make them any better or worse at that. But they are less likely to be the ones taking the back roads or lane splitting etc they tend to be a more cautious breed. Doesn't mean they are better riders, doesn't mean they are better at assessing risk, just means they are more cautious

I would argue that given the high vis wearers on a mile travelled basis are 34% less likely to have an accident and I am not prepared to attribute this reduction in accident rate to the visibility of the vest in any part other than by a very minor amount. So the Vesties are doing something different that is making them safer. I believe that the Vesties are concerned about their vulnerability and approach the hazards and consequence of motorcycle riding differently and it is this different approach that is making them safer.
Personally If I was ever to wear a high vis on a bike it would not make a blind bit of difference, why because if the SIDNSY's don’t see my tank of a bike with its 3 headlights and the big fat old fucker on it and given my riding habits are almost set in stone being formed over the last 40 years riding.
If the purpose of motorcycling is to ride fast and take risks then being in a group of riders who have a higher accident rate would make you a better rider. This is the argument you seem to be making. But it’s not this way, good riders have few accidents, good riders have few accidents because they are better at accessing risks. Good riders have good situational awareness, have good road skills, have good bikes, and have good motorcycle gear. Given the often fatal consequence of a bike accident good riders have to be cautious on the road.
It’s a survival of the fittest argument and in this case the cautious are the survivors.

[MSTRS]

I would argue that it is not the 'cautious' who have better outcomes, but the 'aware'...

[oneofsix]

I would argue that it is not the 'cautious' who have better outcomes, but the 'aware'...

True. You have to balance cautious with aggressive depending on circumstances. The overly cautious will get run off the road.
When a high risk rider is forced to wear hi-viz what you will see is them transfer some more of their responsibilities on to the other road users, after all they are now wearing the hi-viz and so there is no excuse for not seeing them. I bet there will be no re-evaluation of the idea to force hi-viz, just a whole lot of excuses and more finger pointing.

[Usarka]

People will always have opinions.. yours is all that matters however :yes:

& those that make the most noise.. usually have the most to learn..... :msn-wink:


Have you also got a similar photo where the sun is low and bright in the sky behind the bikes? If you had I'd suggest it would tell the opposite story.


Motorcyclists Own The Options. Someone should use that phrase.


MOO!

[Berries]

How do you explain why the high viz wearers have a 34% less chance of having an accident?
Out of interest, where does that figure come from?

[slofox]

Trouble with hi-viz is that as every man and his dog wears the things, they will become so ubiquitous that nobody will bother to notice them any more. Bit like the "headlights on" theory. If cars do it too, it removes the advantage to motorbikes.

Things only stand out if they are unusual.

[Flip]

The LTSA's Safer Journeys doc on P44.

It is actually 37%

[Flip]

Trouble with hi-viz is that as every man and his dog wears the things, they will become so ubiquitous that nobody will bother to notice them any more. Bit like the "headlights on" theory. If cars do it too, it removes the advantage to motorbikes.

Things only stand out if they are unusual.

Time to ride naked!

I think my racing suit needs an ironing.

[george formby]

Aha! The problem is not, to hi-viz or not to hi-viz, it's Jeeps. Last close call I had, in broadly similar circumstances to the OP's own I was driving a jeep. I nearly squished a cyclist wearing the most offensive fluoro pink jacket on earth, I think my subconscious was trying to protect me. She only materialised in front me as I started to move away from a stop junction, after a proper look too. Glad I did stop like the sign says or I could have hit her.

Jeeps are the new Volvos but far less reliable, if we paint them all hi-viz our problems will be solved.

In all seriousness, I've worn hi-viz on & off for years, not giving a toss what anybody else thinks. It might save your ass, then again it might not.

[cs363]

The LTSA's Safer Journeys doc on P44.

It is actually 37%

Oh....the same document that states motorcyclists are 18-20% more likely to crash than other road users, which is an inflated version of the 16% previously quoted by ACC and proven to be utter bullshit?

Note that the document actually states: 'Drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk than other drivers.'

For a start drivers? FFS but I digress, note carefully the wording - this does not mean that wearing a high viz vest makes you 37% less likely to be involved in a crash, it's merely a twisting of statistics to give that appearance. A huge percentage of modern motorcycle gear has some reflective panels, so it would appear that these and other similar garments have been included in this purposely vague statement.

None of this information is definitive and should not be quoted as such. This is how the bullshit starts...


Here is the full section relating to this, (note that it is based on information that is the best part of 8 years old (so no compulsory headlight on and hi-viz was rarer back then and who knows what else affected by time):

5.4.4 Rider safety gear
Wearing protective gear while motorcycling assists in providing safety improvements, specifically enhancing visibility of the motorcyclist to other road users and reducing injuries.
Research completed in New Zealand(17) identified that ‘low conspicuity may increase the risk of motorcycle crash related injury. Increasing the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, white or light coloured helmets, and daytime headlights are simple, cheap interventions that could considerably reduce motorcycle crash related injury and death. In summary:
• Drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk than other drivers.
• Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk.

(17) BMJ 2004; 328 doi: 10.1136/BMJ.37984.574757.EE (Published 8 April 2004) BMJ 2004;328:857. Motorcycle rider conspicuity and crash related injury: case-control study.
Safer journeys for motorcycling on New Zealand roads: Draft for consultation, December 2011 Page 45
• Self reported light coloured helmet versus dark coloured helmet was associated with a 19% lower risk.
• Three quarters of motorcyclists had their headlight turned on during the day, and this was associated with a 27% lower risk’.

[thecharmed01]

I don't think wearing a hivis makes you a dork if it makes you feel more visible..... as long as you don't let it make you feel invincible.
As long as you have your wits about you and you are riding smart, who cares what you wear?
If your friends do, then they aren't overly good 'friends' IMHO. Friends should be supportive.

[skinman]

I used to wear hi vis but after car stopped at stop sign, looked at me then proceeded to pull out when I was so close that the attempt to stop resulted in a close encounter with the road & a broken thumb & have now got a big black bike with loud pipes, decided that appearing as a threat might work as trying to appear more visible apparently failed. I recon if they cant see you with the headlight on they arnt going to see a vest. I have noticed that being big n loud appears to make them look a bit more closely & rethink what they are about to attempt most (but not all) of the time. Still have to be ready to avoid 'fail to give way' situations.

[Hitcher]

Note that the document actually states: 'Drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk than other drivers.'

All this proves is that 73.21% of all statistics are made up. Seriously.

In the absence of a proper double-blind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_experiment) approach, there can be no proper analysis, only speculation. One of the few safety measures that doesn't require a double-blind technique to defend its efficacy is the parachute.

Hi-vis has made its way into all sorts of areas where really all it does is provide a uniform for construction workers and emergency services staff, in addition to all of the other PPE they are expected to wear. In daylight, hi vis is beyond pointless. It's a different story at night, but not for the front view of a motorcyclist, nor for a rear view if the rider's apparel is obscured by a top box, pillion or back pack.

[rastuscat]

True. You have to balance cautious with aggressive depending on circumstances. The overly cautious will get run off the road.

Don't be aggressive. Be assertive.

If you have the right of way, take it, otherwise you are training the other driver to disregard the road rules.

Always have an out tho, so you can bail in the event of the other numpty forcing their way over your rights.

So, be assertive.

On our Popo motorcycle training course, the now-retired instructor used to take marks off us for not being assertive enough. Not passing where he thought it safe to do so was marked down. His message was assertive and progressive riding. It was a little hotter than I was used to, but has taught me to get about more efficiently.

And yes, we wear the viz stuff. I wear it privately as well, but orange, not lemon. Love my citrus but sweet, not asour.

If Hitcher has to ask "am I a dork for wearing hi-viz?", he already knows the answer. He's not.

[Tricia1000]

Just my 2 cents worth, or is it 10 cents now?
I always wear hi-viz, I feel "naked" without it. I always want to make sure that I know I am doing everything to make the other tossers see me. PLUS and it is a big PLUS: When you wear hi-viz, and you have had it for say 6 months, look at how dirty it gets. The hi-viz is saving your jacket from getting all that dirt. In 6 months, you just throw it away, and get a new one, and still reasonable clean jacket!!
But imaging not wearing hi-viz, it is dusk, you come off your bike on some random corner, lying at the side of the road. You hear a car approaching, you might have time to reflect on how wise was it to wear just black, or you might not. At least with a hi viz, it would get picked up in cars headlights.

I personally think there are lots of pluses for wearing hi-viz. It doesn't have to be a traditional one either. mine is black mesh with pink stripes for a girl - they have all sorts of colours at www.accidentscene.org .

[avgas]

Today I did a series of tests.

Riding with no pants definitely gets you more attention than wearing hi-viz.

Therefore I feel it should be compulsory that we no longer wear pants on a motorbike. The jury is still out if I should wear hi-viz or simply not wear pants on the job.

[FJRider]

Just my 2 cents worth, or is it 10 cents now?
I always wear hi-viz, I feel "naked" without it. I always want to make sure that I know I am doing everything to make the other tossers see me. PLUS and it is a big PLUS: When you wear hi-viz, and you have had it for say 6 months, look at how dirty it gets. The hi-viz is saving your jacket from getting all that dirt. In 6 months, you just throw it away, and get a new one, and still reasonable clean jacket!!
But imaging not wearing hi-viz, it is dusk, you come off your bike on some random corner, lying at the side of the road. You hear a car approaching, you might have time to reflect on how wise was it to wear just black, or you might not. At least with a hi viz, it would get picked up in cars headlights.


Most motorcycle gear IS washable ... if you dont look after it ... it wont look after you. Dont you wash your gear ... ??? Cleaning IS womens work after all ... :innocent:

There is a lot of MOTORCYCLE gear (jackets/pants) that has the necessary reflective panels ... in a wide range of base colours in the gear.

If wearing this type of gear ... and riding with your headlight ON (as required by law now) and still CAN'T be seen ... NO amount of Hi Viz gear will save you.

If you (anybody) choose(s) to wear gear without the reflective high viz bits ... as a fashion statement ... or to enhance the "Biker" look ... I suggest you ride as though NOBODY can see you.

You may live longer ...

[MSTRS]

... I suggest you ride as though NOBODY can see you ...

Regardless of what you wear (or not)

[pritch]

Earlier this year I toured the South Island with a group of motorcyclists some of whom had travelled with the same group several times previously. Some of them wore hi viz.

On the occasions where any of them had arrived in a town en route prior to me, I found their hi viz most helpful in locating the best cafe. :whistle:

[Fast Eddie]

Earlier this year I toured the South Island with a group of motorcyclists some of whom had travelled with the same group several times previously. Some of them wore hi viz.

On the occasions where any of them had arrived in a town en route prior to me, I found their hi viz most helpful in locating the best cafe. :whistle:

haha bout the most useful they are.


the way these laws and safety campagins are going - its going to end up that everyone gets wrapped up in fluro orange bubble wrap a few inches thick and have flashing lights all over plus 2 pilot vehicles for and aft. Should be pretty visible by then.

[george formby]

haha bout the most useful they are.


the way these laws and safety campagins are going - its going to end up that everyone gets wrapped up in fluro orange bubble wrap a few inches thick and have flashing lights all over plus 2 pilot vehicles for and aft. Should be pretty visible by then.

Like the Killer Bees bad boy gang?

[Fast Eddie]

Like the Killer Bees bad boy gang?

I don't get the reference.. since I don't know who they are.. must be a north island thing

[Tricia1000]

Enjoy your next 20 years having skin grafts then.


Today I did a series of tests.

Riding with no pants definitely gets you more attention than wearing hi-viz.

Therefore I feel it should be compulsory that we no longer wear pants on a motorbike. The jury is still out if I should wear hi-viz or simply not wear pants on the job.

[Tricia1000]

I quite agree that washing your gear periodically is good. But if you need to wear it every day, then that becomes a problem. But after it has been washed a few times, that reduces the waterproof qualities of the gear, plus getting the armour in and out, can be a mission.
The stuff with the reflective panels is good, as well as night stripe on boots.
Cleaning may be womens work, but if you live alone, so is mowing the grass, waterblasting the house, running a business, doing accounts, doing GST returns, paying wages, doing PAYE, washing the cars, motorbikes, house work, shopping for groceries etc.
Most motorcycle gear IS washable ... if you dont look after it ... it wont look after you. Dont you wash your gear ... ??? Cleaning IS womens work after all ... :innocent:

There is a lot of MOTORCYCLE gear (jackets/pants) that has the necessary reflective panels ... in a wide range of base colours in the gear.

If wearing this type of gear ... and riding with your headlight ON (as required by law now) and still CAN'T be seen ... NO amount of Hi Viz gear will save you.

If you (anybody) choose(s) to wear gear without the reflective high viz bits ... as a fashion statement ... or to enhance the "Biker" look ... I suggest you ride as though NOBODY can see you.

You may live longer ...

[FJRider]

I quite agree that washing your gear periodically is good. But if you need to wear it every day, then that becomes a problem. But after it has been washed a few times, that reduces the waterproof qualities of the gear, plus getting the armour in and out, can be a mission.

I regularly wash my Gortex gear (with a mild detergent) then a "rinse wash" followed by a wash (NO DETERGENT) with an addition of NIKWAX (TX Direct) which is available in most sports shops. The Nikwax helps restore the water repellency of the gear.
Five minutes getting the armour in and out is worth the effort. Or ... an alternitive is spreading the gear out on a tarpaulin ... and giving it a scrub with the armour still in. NIKWAX do have a spray on water repellent, but is more expensive.
With the linings taken out prior to washing ... it doesn't take long to dry. No heat required ... just a fan, at most.
The linings can be washed separately with on delicate wash.



Cleaning may be womens work, but if you live alone, so is mowing the grass, waterblasting the house, running a business, doing accounts, doing GST returns, paying wages, doing PAYE, washing the cars, motorbikes, house work, shopping for groceries etc.

I live alone ... :msn-wink: :laugh: and you could get a MAN to wash it for you ... :first:

[avgas]

Enjoy your next 20 years having skin grafts then.
Nah I am sweet. I don't crash anymore. Only girls crash.

[Tricia1000]

I hope those arent famous last words..



Nah I am sweet. I don't crash anymore. Only girls crash.

[Berries]

But imaging not wearing hi-viz, it is dusk, you come off your bike on some random corner, lying at the side of the road. You hear a car approaching, you might have time to reflect on how wise was it to wear just black, or you might not. At least with a hi viz, it would get picked up in cars headlights
Not a bad idea. I suppose emergency locator beacons are the next step in case you roll in to a ditch and can't be seen.

[cs363]

All this proves is that 73.21% of all statistics are made up. Seriously.

In the absence of a proper double-blind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_experiment) approach, there can be no proper analysis, only speculation. One of the few safety measures that doesn't require a double-blind technique to defend its efficacy is the parachute.

Hi-vis has made its way into all sorts of areas where really all it does is provide a uniform for construction workers and emergency services staff, in addition to all of the other PPE they are expected to wear. In daylight, hi vis is beyond pointless. It's a different story at night, but not for the front view of a motorcyclist, nor for a rear view if the rider's apparel is obscured by a top box, pillion or back pack.

Yes, agree totally - hence my post which was in reply to another that was quoting that statistic in support of the efficacy of high-vis. Basically meaningless numbers being used to justify its usage.
I think the whole visibility issue is similar to the ACC levy - because car drivers don't always see us, it's being made our problem when the simple truth is that it wouldn't matter if you were dressed head to toe in high-vis with flashing lights on top of your helmet - these same drivers still wouldn't see you. I've seen dozy car drivers pull out in front of big trucks like B-Trains etc., if they can't see them what hope do we have?
The answer in my opinion is to ride defensively and never assume the driver has seen you, high-vis or not.

[riffer]

Keeping it on topic...

My $0.02 (yes, again) about high-viz is this:

High-viz, by itself doesn't make ANY difference to your safety. The reason for the 37% difference in accident rates is more likely to be due to the likelihood that people who wear high-viz gear are more likely to take an active role in their safety on the road.

Take two riders; one your rider in his mid 40s, 20 years on a bike, lots of experience, with a healthy regard for his their mortality. Dress them all in black on a black CB900 Hornet. Take your other rider, mid 20s, five years on a bike, squidly attitude, dress them in fluoro high-viz gear, and throw them on a race-replica coloured (say REPCO Fireblade). Who's your money on?

As usual, it all comes down to attitude, self-discipline and smarts. Visibility comes way down the list.

FFS another person died this weekend when they drove their car onto a level crossing and got hit by a train! A train! How the hell do you not see one of those!

[oneofsix]

Keeping it on topic...

My $0.02 (yes, again) about high-viz is this:

High-viz, by itself doesn't make ANY difference to your safety. The reason for the 37% difference in accident rates is more likely to be due to the likelihood that people who wear high-viz gear are more likely to take an active role in their safety on the road.

Take two riders; one your rider in his mid 40s, 20 years on a bike, lots of experience, with a healthy regard for his their mortality. Dress them all in black on a black CB900 Hornet. Take your other rider, mid 20s, five years on a bike, squidly attitude, dress them in fluoro high-viz gear, and throw them on a race-replica coloured (say REPCO Fireblade). Who's your money on?

As usual, it all comes down to attitude, self-discipline and smarts. Visibility comes way down the list.

FFS another person died this weekend when they drove their car onto a level crossing and got hit by a train! A train! How the hell do you not see one of those!

I agree with you but also have a theory about trains. It is to do with their lighting arrangements. I suspect that because they are this big black trial with only a highset light at the front ...
Oops there I go spouting off on KB without checking the facts again :laugh:
The train crash happened at 7:05pm and therefore in full daylight. Who would expect a train at a level crossing? :weird:
back to topic, the best Hi-viz does is to make you more seeable by those that are looking for you and then only when the conditions are right. At other times it can actual camouflage you :eek: The danger of making it required is that the novice hi-viz rider feeling visible and protected

[riffer]

Indeed. One of the biggest problems with policy making in New Zealand is the propensity of those that make rules to look at the wrong indicator when setting policy.

Hence, thinking that high-viz vests are the solution when it's actually the attitude of the people who wear them.

[MSTRS]

Indeed. One of the biggest problems with policy making in New Zealand is the propensity of those that make rules to look at the wrong indicator when setting policy.

Hence, thinking that high-viz vests are the solution when it's actually the attitude of the people who wear them.

Repeated for truth.
Hope this went (or goes) in your submission, S.

[caspernz]

Indeed. One of the biggest problems with policy making in New Zealand is the propensity of those that make rules to look at the wrong indicator when setting policy.

Hence, thinking that high-viz vests are the solution when it's actually the attitude of the people who wear them.

Fair point, it's the safety first attitude of those who chose to wear the hiviz that contributes mostly. Still, it can't hurt to wear the glowvest, so I'll keep wearing it.....easier to wash than the whole jacket too.

[rocketman1]

After reading all these posts, in my judgement, the jury is out, I am not a dork.
Thanks fellow riders, I can officially say that I am not a Dork as judged by Kiwibikers.

Hey joking aside, I will continue to ride my Hi-Viz, to put it bluntly I don't give a stuff what I look like on a bike anymore. I am not out there to impress anyone.
I just love riding my bike, and hope that the one time in 1000 that blind bastard who cant see a train or a black jeep on a rainy day, sees my Hi viz.

:cool:

[Hitcher]

After reading all these posts, in my judgement, the jury is out, I am not a dork.
Thanks fellow riders, I can officially say that I am not a Dork as judged by Kiwibikers.

Only if you take a selective view of your original proposition, which also included riding everywhere with your light on high beam. The discussion, largely based on emotion rather than science, has concentrated solely on the hi vis element of your original thesis.

How about we have a discussion about the inconsiderate and irritating use of a headlight, before your dorkness is laid to rest?

[cs363]

Only if you take a selective view of your original proposition, which also included riding everywhere with your light on high beam. The discussion, largely based on emotion rather than science, has concentrated solely on the hi vis element of your original thesis.

How about we have a discussion about the inconsiderate and irritating use of a headlight, before your dorkness is laid to rest?

Definitely inconsiderate and annoying, but based on historical research of KB threads I believe you also have to sell soft serve ice cream to be truly considered a dork. :innocent: :whistle:

p/t

[Usarka]

Indeed. One of the biggest problems with policy making in New Zealand is the propensity of those that make rules to look at the wrong indicator when setting policy.

Hence, thinking that high-viz vests are the solution when it's actually the attitude of the people who wear them.

I responded to the safer roads thing they did a couple of years ago with a lot of my answers talking about personal and societal attitudes, conditioning etc. The published draft had a comment in it that that sort of thing was outside the scope of the report.

[riffer]

I responded to the safer roads thing they did a couple of years ago with a lot of my answers talking about personal and societal attitudes, conditioning etc. The published draft had a comment in it that that sort of thing was outside the scope of the report.

Yeah it's bloody pathetic innit? When you consider they expend a hell of a lot of money on social conditioning regarding keeping speed down and alcohol consumption before driving minimised.

[BMWST?]

Indeed. One of the biggest problems with policy making in New Zealand is the propensity of those that make rules to look at the wrong indicator when setting policy.

Hence, thinking that high-viz vests are the solution when it's actually the attitude of the people who dont see them.

fixt .

[misterO]

Hi Viz. Am I a dork?

Maybe, maybe not- that's not for me to say, but wearing a High Viz vest has nothing to do with it. It really doesn't matter if you choose to ride wearing a tutu, provided you also wear good gloves, boots, pants and jacket. As the saying goes: dress for the fall, not the ride. A High Viz vest has not yet been scientifically proven to increase your risk of mishap so if it makes you happy then go for it. The only true "dorks" are the ones who get on their bike wearing a wife-beater, shorts and jandals. If your primary goal is to get noticed then ride naked.

[riffer]

Hi Viz. Am I a dork?

Maybe, maybe not- that's not for me to say, but wearing a High Viz vest has nothing to do with it. It really doesn't matter if you choose to ride wearing a tutu, provided you also wear good gloves, boots, pants and jacket. As the saying goes: dress for the fall, not the ride. A High Viz vest has not yet been scientifically proven to increase your risk of mishap so if it makes you happy then go for it. The only true "dorks" are the ones who get on their bike wearing a wife-beater, shorts and jandals. If your primary goal is to get noticed then ride naked.

Maybe. However, that sounds like your primary goal is to be avoided. Which is not necessarily a bad thing on the road either.

[oneofsix]

Hi Viz. Am I a dork?

Maybe, maybe not- that's not for me to say, but wearing a High Viz vest has nothing to do with it. It really doesn't matter if you choose to ride wearing a tutu, provided you also wear good gloves, boots, pants and jacket. As the saying goes: dress for the fall, not the ride. A High Viz vest has not yet been scientifically proven to increase your risk of mishap so if it makes you happy then go for it. The only true "dorks" are the ones who get on their bike wearing a wife-beater, shorts and jandals. If your primary goal is to get noticed then ride naked.

I bet Quasi could do you some brown naked look leathers :clap: Get the beat of both worlds ATGATT and look naked so you get noticed. :wings:

[avgas]

I hope those arent famous last words..
Nah I will always go out on a line like:
"Fuck you all, I'm off to Kansas!"

[pritch]

As the saying goes: dress for the fall, not the ride.

Bugga! And I thought the saying was, "Dress for the slide, not for the ride.":sherlock:

[Usarka]

Bugga! And I thought the saying was, "Dress for the slide, not for the ride.":sherlock:

That one works on the track, on the road it's "dress for the slide and hit, not for the ride and s*** ".

[Fast Eddie]

I hope those arent famous last words..

haha, nah famous last words usually start like: "watch this!.."

[actungbaby]

Wear it if makes you feel condifent whats wrong with that , yes well i done the same in my car also
Proves where human mate . does give you heck freight its thought how u chould missed it better to be that way.
than live in dream that think you ivinsible i guess , but does put you of a bit it will pass.

I pulled out in front of a car and been tiped of my bike really kicked myself didnt see the car too . dam was line cars parked either side the road and my mate pulled out in his car and i did the same and yeah wasint injured at all lucky




I have taken to wearing a Hiviz (bright greeny yellow) top lately while riding, but my mates think I look a bit of dork.
I don't really care ..............but then do a bit.

I tell what changed my mind; A couple of weeks ago I was coming out of the intersection at Whakamaru, besides the burnt out petrol station and coffee shop,( thousands will know the intersection) turning right towards the Dam.
I was raining hard and I was driving my CAR. I stopped and looked twice both ways and proceeded right, just as I was turning this big black JEEP turned right in front of me. F--K I missed him by inches, but up till then I never saw him at all. He gave me the finger and filthy look (rightly so I suppose).
This didnt worry me, it was my own fault, I could not believe I had not seen him, such a big vehicle.
I started to doubt my own, sanity and eyes for a while afterwards, and stopped and looked about 3 times each way all the home at each corner/ intersection, a bit of an overkill I know.
Two things I thought about immediately was shite! what if I was on my bike, or the Jeep had been a bike.
Reflecting on it driving home, I realize that it was quite dark, raining heavy, about 3pm the Jeep was black, against a dark back ground of pine trees , and it did not have its lights on.
All the things to make it as invisible as possible.

This has made me change my mind to wear a fluoro top, and riding my bike with full lights on.

Am I a Dork?

[actungbaby]

you reminded me
that somone loves me okay its my mother .. brought me hi viz tee shirt from 3 dollar shop not expensive so there that excuse at the door.
Thats for that wholidint have dreamed wearing on my bike when get one up and running but your made me think
Why not ..its for my pushbike at the moment to get to my new job..



I don't usually bother commenting on this type of post, but it struck me as appropriate because today was my first trip over the bridge to Coleman's Suzuki in central Auckland , and I put on my Hi Viz for the first time because it made me feel that little bit more secure and visable .
When I say for the first time , I mean in 7 months of which I spent 6 of on crutches and still have to have surgery to have plates removed.
In the past I used to think that wearing Hi viz was not that cool but now I don't give a shit what other people think , matter of fact I find most of my riding mates are wearing them more especially when riding around the city .
Believe me after what my wife and I have had to suffer after a car driver wiped me out on a roundabout when she failed to give away to her right after stopping , then saying she didn't see me I will do anything too make myself safer on the road and it won't stop me from riding free as long as I can.
Good on you mate,
a fellow " dork" ?????

[actungbaby]

tell them your girlfreind brought it for you shes saftey mad... you only wear cause she give you the bash
maybe we should buy each other vest for xmas then can blame each other and we all be dorks.
oh except the girls ... cause i called my wife dork and she said that was impossible...


I have taken to wearing a Hiviz (bright greeny yellow) top lately while riding, but my mates think I look a bit of dork.
I don't really care ..............but then do a bit.

I tell what changed my mind; A couple of weeks ago I was coming out of the intersection at Whakamaru, besides the burnt out petrol station and coffee shop,( thousands will know the intersection) turning right towards the Dam.
I was raining hard and I was driving my CAR. I stopped and looked twice both ways and proceeded right, just as I was turning this big black JEEP turned right in front of me. F--K I missed him by inches, but up till then I never saw him at all. He gave me the finger and filthy look (rightly so I suppose).
This didnt worry me, it was my own fault, I could not believe I had not seen him, such a big vehicle.
I started to doubt my own, sanity and eyes for a while afterwards, and stopped and looked about 3 times each way all the home at each corner/ intersection, a bit of an overkill I know.
Two things I thought about immediately was shite! what if I was on my bike, or the Jeep had been a bike.
Reflecting on it driving home, I realize that it was quite dark, raining heavy, about 3pm the Jeep was black, against a dark back ground of pine trees , and it did not have its lights on.
All the things to make it as invisible as possible.

This has made me change my mind to wear a fluoro top, and riding my bike with full lights on.

Am I a Dork?

[Berries]

brought me hi viz tee shirt from 3 dollar shop not expensive so there that excuse at the door
How much was it?





Where are the BODONGZA when you need them anyway?

[MSTRS]

Where are the BODONGZA when you need them anyway?

Trolling google to find what that acronym means?

[ital916]

I find a hi vis adds to your repertoire of safety mechanisms, ride defensively, be alert, adding a hi vis won't hurt. Plus, motorcyclists love being looked at :laugh:

[caspernz]

I find a hi vis adds to your repertoire of safety mechanisms, ride defensively, be alert, adding a hi vis won't hurt. Plus, motorcyclists love being looked at :laugh:

Mmmm, that last one was my number one reason....