Looking for a 2 stroke expert in Dunedin

[Fast Eddie]

As the title suggests. I'm looking for some 2 stroke experts in Dunedin that may want to help me out in the shed in exchange for drink/smoke/food.

Aprilia RS250 is making some noises on the powerband so would like to strip and inspect and would like some good old fashioned knowledge and experience to watch over me and provide guidance and advise from those that have done this a million times before. A bonus would be if you race them :) gotta love racers and their mechanic abilities :D

[DrunkenMistake]

Use a blue power band, and use a strong epoxy to ensure it doesnt slip..

[Fast Eddie]

Use a blue power band, and use a strong epoxy to ensure it doesnt slip..

haha lets not go down this road..

have you seen that thread with that dude asking how to make his 2 stroke NSR a 4 stroke? classic..

[DrunkenMistake]

haha lets not go down this road..

have you seen that thread with that dude asking how to make his 2 stroke NSR a 4 stroke? classic..

Oh my lord,
thats an amazing idea,
I hate that 2 stroke sound. :laugh:

[tigertim20]

haha lets not go down this road..

have you seen that thread with that dude asking how to make his 2 stroke NSR a 4 stroke? classic..

yeah thats hilarious!.
is it just a general run down you're after? or just the few things that youre bothered about and want fixed?
what do you know already?

[Fast Eddie]

yeah thats hilarious!.
is it just a general run down you're after? or just the few things that youre bothered about and want fixed?
what do you know already?

Yea for now its just this particular noise that its making mainly in the higher revs when it should be or is in the powerband. I'm just taking a stab that its prob the powervalves, but once I have them out I won't really know what I'm looking at unless there is very visible wear thats obvious to a monkey like me.

Hmm I know a bunch of theory.. have not opened up anything 2 stroke that is bigger than the weedwacker and lawnmower though and pretty sure they didn't have powervalves.

But I am a 'qualified' mechanic having done my automotive shit cert and apprenticeship a few moons ago :S whatever that counts for.. I know how it all works and what it supposed to do. But since I have no real experience with these v twin 2 stroke engines from the RGV/Aprilia in particular I'd like to find someone that has stripped and rebuilt a few of these specific engines before as they will know a thing or two that I can't find in books or online.

If I feel like taking the risk of further damage I might put the body n bits back on tomorrow and ride it to the pub where u guys meet prior to the ride tomorrow and you could take it around the block and listen for the noise I speak of if you think you know a thing or two :D

[DrunkenMistake]

Around the block?!


Make sure the tank is full, should be nice in middlemarch.

[Fast Eddie]

Around the block?!


Make sure the tank is full, should be nice in middlemarch.

har har, it came with a full tank of gas an oil. stoked. you should have smelt the van that it got delivered in. he was literally marinating in 2 stroke fumes, he must have been high as a kite the whole drive down. I was high just when he opened the doors and I helped him unload it.

fuck it starts easy, I just went out to the garage to fire it up haha, I love th digital display, it displays a big COLD to you until it is warm enough to ride. no longer to I have to make my own decision on when its warm enough to go.. happy days for the lazy

[tigertim20]

Yea for now its just this particular noise that its making mainly in the higher revs when it should be or is in the powerband. I'm just taking a stab that its prob the powervalves, but once I have them out I won't really know what I'm looking at unless there is very visible wear thats obvious to a monkey like me.

Hmm I know a bunch of theory.. have not opened up anything 2 stroke that is bigger than the weedwacker and lawnmower though and pretty sure they didn't have powervalves.

But I am a 'qualified' mechanic having done my automotive shit cert and apprenticeship a few moons ago :S whatever that counts for.. I know how it all works and what it supposed to do. But since I have no real experience with these v twin 2 stroke engines from the RGV/Aprilia in particular I'd like to find someone that has stripped and rebuilt a few of these specific engines before as they will know a thing or two that I can't find in books or online.

If I feel like taking the risk of further damage I might put the body n bits back on tomorrow and ride it to the pub where u guys meet prior to the ride tomorrow and you could take it around the block and listen for the noise I speak of if you think you know a thing or two :D
sounds good, will see ya there!

[DrunkenMistake]

har har, it came with a full tank of gas an oil. stoked. you should have smelt the van that it got delivered in. he was literally marinating in 2 stroke fumes, he must have been high as a kite the whole drive down. I was high just when he opened the doors and I helped him unload it.

fuck it starts easy, I just went out to the garage to fire it up haha, I love th digital display, it displays a big COLD to you until it is warm enough to ride. no longer to I have to make my own decision on when its warm enough to go.. happy days for the lazy

Lmao yeah ae, My misses works with a guy who owns one, its in the shop at the moment though

[Fast Eddie]

Lmao yeah ae, My misses works with a guy who owns one, its in the shop at the moment though

arg.. I hope its getting serviced and not repaired

[DrunkenMistake]

arg.. I hope its getting serviced and not repaired

apparently he doesnt know, its been one problem after another,

Probably due for a rebuild and he hasnt realised, its at SPV in the window, he wants to swap it for my 650, as tempting as it is haha

Edit: Misses said they thought it was a CDI issue or something

[tigertim20]

judging by the state of it, its getting repaired. it isnt looking happy.

heres a link that describes the powervalve functions for different engines.

If you want, just blow the fucking engine up and get an RS500 built. youll get ya rocks off on that shit something wicked.

[Fast Eddie]

judging by the state of it, its getting repaired. it isnt looking happy.

heres a link that describes the powervalve functions for different engines.

If you want, just blow the fucking engine up and get an RS500 built. youll get ya rocks off on that shit something wicked.

haha that is the backround idea for the toy tho.. first rebuild will be the 300cc kit, then after that will see what I can do.. hope to have access to some engineering and fabrication shit by then.. a 500 2 stroke would be something fun alright haha.

[Fast Eddie]

theres actually quite a few cool rgv500 gp replicas built, they are online. very cool. But they knew the some people in the right places to get some real ex motogp parts n shit for the builds.. I'm sure I can substitute no.8 wire in though

[Fast Eddie]

Stripped the Aprilia down quite a bit today. Was pleased to find a lot of race track design has made its way onto the road version, seat comes off without any bolts/nuts. fuel tank is plastic and just has one clip and then slides out. has a proper fuel tap that seals it proper etc etc.. everything comes off easy

There was a ridiculous amount of oil and grease all over the engine, especially around the exhaust port of the left cylinder and all over the exhaust manifold.. Needs further investigation. Infact there is disturbing amounts of oil and grease all over the place so in the process of degreasing now but its tough work! I'm just using spray can degreasers and rags.. shit work, think im just pushing it around/smearing it around. Also finding a million threaded screws and mounts and shit. Poor Aprilia its had some useless twats working on it in its life. Arg.. can't even list all the things that have been bodged on it. Its gonna keep me busy

Engine fired up and sounded good today, I left it to idle for a while to see what it would do, Started trying to check powervalve operation as per workshop manual but after a while it dropped its idle rpms and then died.. Hasn't restarted on both cylinders since sooo.. there is def some issues going on with it. It starts but only runs on one. Didn't get as far as plugs out, maybe do it later tonight before dark.

Hmm... oh well all fun and games!

Who knows where this mysterious grey wire is that is used to check the powervalve operation? I can't find it.. according to the workshop manual its supposed to be next to the battery just hanging around but couldn't see anything on mine

[eelracing]

Who knows where this mysterious grey wire is that is used to check the powervalve operation? I can't find it.. according to the workshop manual its supposed to be next to the battery just hanging around but couldn't see anything on mine

Seeing as it's an Italian bike the electrics are prob best left to Lucifer to sort.If it's anything like the RGV then the checkwire should be located along side the battery negative lead wire.There should be a female part of a bullet connecter on the end of the wire.

[Fast Eddie]

Seeing as it's an Italian bike the electrics are prob best left to Lucifer to sort.If it's anything like the RGV then the checkwire should be located along side the battery negative lead wire.There should be a female part of a bullet connecter on the end of the wire.

yip, should be the same as the RGV, it is supposed to be alongside the battery but I can't see it...

here are some photos, can you spot it? in the 3rd/4th/5th photos I show a wire i found (the photo with my finger in the way) that goes no where and its around where the bottom(right) cylinders exhaust valve is.. but I'm color blind, I don't think its grey.. and it looks insulated over the end of it so would have to strip that off to connect it/earth it to anything.. grr.252767252768252769252770252771252772

[ducatilover]

That slut is gagging for a raping bro.

MOAR PICZ!!!!!!!!

[Fast Eddie]

have found 2 more wires which lead to no where.. They wouldn't be there if they werent supposed to be hooked up to something but bike still runs without it hooked up so it just makes you wonder!!

these 2 come directly from the handlebar end of the loom and appear to come from the throttle side. But I have no idea where they should be attached.. I can't see another end around thats obvious.. One wire is the one with the plug on the end which im holding onto, the plug end is a bit munched up, and the other u can just see if u follow the wire im holding down, it is the little blue wire which has been cut and had tape over it.

fun fun fun, if only there was some sun.

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[Fast Eddie]

IS THIS THE GREY WIRE TO CHECK EXHAUST VALVE OPERATION?

I'm color blind.. looks to be what I would consider grey haha.. but its on the wrong side of the bike according to the manual.. but thats not reall suprising since everything is wrong on this bike

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[Fast Eddie]

here are the plugs, I didn't think they were too bad.. oil fouled but that cleaned off pretty quick. no coloring on the white/ceramic bits at all yet so either they are fairly new plugs... or somethings wrong haha

Plug on the left is from the top(left)cylinder and the one on the right is from the bottom cylinder. Top one seems to be getting a good load of oil on it.

I soaked them, cleaned them, gapped them, sprayed contact cleaner all over them and the caps and threw em back in for now. They should make a spark. will replace em later.

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[Fast Eddie]

couple of bling shots :D haha..

gotta love the works racing dept tag :) and the gold Brembos all round :D :D

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also who knows of a better degreaser that doesn't react with rubber? the one im using now turns any rubber bits a dirty brown color, i.e. my tyres and radiator hoses/any rubber bits. makes it look dirty even though its clean.

brand names,prices and where to buy thanks! I'm in Dunedin so don't tell me of a great little shop in Auckland..

[ducatilover]

That wire is grey :niceone:

Looking good man, I want those Brembos!
As for random wires, who cares, my shitisaki had a few of them. The CDI unit has even got places for more wires...two I know are the speed restrictor and it has a hissy if you disconnect it (don't worry, it's not restricted, I'm far too smart)

[Fast Eddie]

That slut is gagging for a raping bro.

MOAR PICZ!!!!!!!!

I'm 4 fingers deep right now. She loves it..

need to buy all new stainless/zinc hardware and fastners though every little screw and nut and bolt is rusty and ugly. gonna have to rethread some shit too. Some real monkeys have owned this before me.

[Fast Eddie]

That wire is grey :niceone:

Churr :D thought so, it looks like the wire im looking for some I'm gonna hook it up once I'm done cleaning the exhaust valves and see if they operate. more pics to come :D haha..

I also need to borrow a Battery charger and a compression tester with flexible hose (I have fixed type and its no good to me) If anyone in Dunedin would loan me these for a day that would be brilliant! Can buy ya a 6 pack of watery beer

[ducatilover]

Get a huge bag of cap head buggers, that's what I'll be doing. None of the old fashioned ugly bolts!

[Fast Eddie]

Battery charger and compression tester in Dunedin anyone..

gwaaarn... Wanna keep up the momentum :devil2:

[eelracing]

IS THIS THE GREY WIRE TO CHECK EXHAUST VALVE OPERATION?

I'm color blind.. looks to be what I would consider grey haha.. but its on the wrong side of the bike according to the manual.. but thats not reall suprising since everything is wrong on this bike

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That'll be the one.

The most easiest way to check PowerValve actuation is to warm her up and then rev it up to over 8500 rpm and hit the kill switch (not the ignition key) this will leave the PV's in the fully open position.
Do your checks from there,she's a two stroke and only 4 stroke homo's care about midrange.

When you turn the ignition key off the PV's will automatically go back to the fully closed position.

[F5 Dave]

I've only skimmed this, but 2 points: plugs once fouled often don't recover even if they spark outside the engine. You can swap em over & see if the cold pipe (not firing) swaps to the other pot.
2nd those PVs need checking every so often, - as in take them out & inspect. The rivet holding them together shags out & it can drop into the piston. Makes a ticking noise depending how bad, but gets worse quick. Tends to be a problem more on the upper cylinder, or rather a damaging one. RGVs, RG150s, RMXs all do it.

Anyways get onto RGV250.co.uk. There will be more info in a search there than anything here.

[Fast Eddie]

Cheers, yep already on rgv250.co.uk and a1 aprilia forum. Not bad, fair bit of info there but a fair bit of forum whores too who just throw their two cents in.. makes for slow reading through a million posts to pick out the useful bits.

I have a photocopied workshop manual half in italian.. its helping.

Have done the static grey wire test to check exhaust valve operation. Both are lined up correctly on the first mark/fully closed position, but after grey wire test the lower cylinder is dead aligned with the second mark/half open position but the top cylinder didn't make it all the way, its just over halfway between first mark and second mark.

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Cannot run engine at the moment to check full exhaust valve operation as I'm still working on the bike and have spotted a few things that need to be done anyway while its in bits.

[Henk]

When we picked up the wife's RS all the PV cables were shagged and I'm pretty sure the default position is fully open. Also they do a cycle when you start it so you should be able to hook everything up with the fairing off, start the bike and see things moving. Don't just go off the servo noise though, as I said on Michelle's the cables were all stuffed, it. Made the right noises but nothing happened, valves always fully open, was a bit low on bottom end and peaky as hell.
Great bikes though, turn you into a raving lunatic every time you ride them.

Hand starting outside the pub is always good for an unbelieving look or two

[Fast Eddie]

When we picked up the wife's RS all the PV cables were shagged and I'm pretty sure the default position is fully open. Also they do a cycle when you start it so you should be able to hook everything up with the fairing off, start the bike and see things moving. Don't just go off the servo noise though

Bikes in pieces at the moment so not starting it. But cheers. Default position should be fully closed with engine off and ignition on. Grey wire test opens them half way so you can adjust and align/sync the 2 exhaust valves.

The ball ends of my cables are worn as well so will try and replace them if it is not too expensive. I'm assuming you bought replacement cables for your wifes RS, how much were they from memory? and were they hard to source?

Prob have to leave it until after new years as I'm off on holiday for few weeks.

[Fast Eddie]

I've only skimmed this, but 2 points: plugs once fouled often don't recover even if they spark outside the engine. You can swap em over & see if the cold pipe (not firing) swaps to the other pot.

cher cher, Yea I didn't have time to buy new plugs but will swap them around and see if the cylinder that doesnt fire changes with the plugs. Then will buy new plugs.

I'v drained all the coolant out, but I'll give it a start tomorrow and see if they both fire up then kill it.

Will have to give the exhaust valves some TLC, like I mentioned in an earlier post. The bottom cylinder valve is so far working as it should. is aligned with 1st mark for fully closed and lines up with 2nd mark at half open. cannot run engine to check fully open. However the top cylinder is aligned at fully closed but does not align to the 2nd marker at half open it only makes it half way between the fully closed mark and the half open mark. Guessing I may get away with an adjustment of the cable? I'm guessing it is just not pulling it open enough?

More tomorrow..

[Henk]

We bought a bunch of cables and gaskets off a guy on here who was getting out of a lot of VJ22 stuff for a decent price. Also bought what was left of a VJ21 for some of the stuff that was attached to it so have some spare bits for the future.
In your position I'd be pulling. The barrels off for a look in any case for peace of mind and doing the power valves while I was at it. From your description of the way the bike has been treated by previous owners it seems the prudent thing to do. I hauled ours to bits just to check based on the condition of the rest of the bike, thankfully the engine is OK internally, bike just looks scruffy from being crashed and parked in the rain, suits us fine.
Weird thing is that it came into the country with about 12k on the clock and the owners between then and us put an average of about 400 ks each on it. I think the guy we bought it off was scared of it.
Once you get it going you'll love it.

[Fast Eddie]

We bought a bunch of cables and gaskets off a guy on here who was getting out of a lot of VJ22 stuff for a decent price. Also bought what was left of a VJ21 for some of the stuff that was attached to it so have some spare bits for the future.
In your position I'd be pulling. The barrels off for a look in any case for peace of mind and doing the power valves while I was at it. From your description of the way the bike has been treated by previous owners it seems the prudent thing to do. I hauled ours to bits just to check based on the condition of the rest of the bike, thankfully the engine is OK internally, bike just looks scruffy from being crashed and parked in the rain, suits us fine.
Weird thing is that it came into the country with about 12k on the clock and the owners between then and us put an average of about 400 ks each on it. I think the guy we bought it off was scared of it.
Once you get it going you'll love it.

Ah, lucky score getting those parts. I guess I'll have a slightly harder time finding the bits. Will pull the powervalves out tomorrow for a look and will no doubt rebuild them and their corrosponding parts. Will need to source the cables as well. Judging by the neglect around the rest of the bike I will continue stripping and inspecting and rebuilding :) its not bad work though. Has been a nice bike to work on so far, have to say my Fireblade is a lot more fustrating to work on so playing with this is fun.

I had a quick ride of it when I got it on Wednesday, it ran OK but I noticed an unusual noice that came and went so had already decided to strip it down then. Plus the next morning as I was warming it up to check powervalve operation it stopped firing one cylinder and couldn't get it to fire again so the rebuild started from there.

The more I pull it apart the more I find that needs to be done, repaired, touched up or replaced.

I am wondering how I will repair the throttle on the handle bar and both switchblock assemblies as they clamp tight on the handlebar to stop moving but the previous owners have threaded them out so they do not tighten up anymore.. its plastic too.. I was thinking of just getting slightly bigger screws/bolts and jamming them in but at the same time I'd rather repair it properly if anyone has ideas..

[Henk]

The switch blocks on ours have a mm or so of slop, I haven't worried about it and it doesn't seem to have caused any issues.

[Fast Eddie]

The switch blocks on ours have a mm or so of slop, I haven't worried about it and it doesn't seem to have caused any issues.

haha.. doesnt the throttle block twist around with you as you try to work the throttle? mine does.. and also it can slide left to right on the clip on..

I think I will pursue fixing it one way or another. may fill the holes in and redrill and use a tap to make a fresh hole for the clamping screw.. will see. its low down on the priorities for now plenty of other things to work on.

[ducatilover]

Post a pic of the thermostat housing, I might have one in my garage if it's the same as an RGV

[Henk]

Sounds like the locating pin on yours has disappeared. Ours only moves a little.

[Fast Eddie]

Post a pic of the thermostat housing, I might have one in my garage if it's the same as an RGV

Do I need a thermostat housing? :D I wasn't aware I did... But I like to collect spare parts anyway just incase.. got a whole spare chassis and bits for the blade which I doubt I will ever use haha.

I think pretty much all of the engine stuff will be the same as RGV250 yips :D

Too dark for photos now, but will be back into it tomoro morning.. you should be able to spot the thermostat housing in one of the previous posted pics if u have a keen eye.

[Fast Eddie]

Sounds like the locating pin on yours has disappeared. Ours only moves a little.

I'll pull it apart and look, havent ever really looked at the throttle assembly on a bike before. Does the locating pin sit in a little groove on the clip on or something? mine could definitely slide off the end of the clip on if the brake hose/throttle cables werent keeping it from slipping too far.

[Henk]

Pretty sure the Switch blocks have the standard pin that goes into a hole in the clip on arrangement.

[Fast Eddie]

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might be able to spot thermo houseing top left.. not really though haha.

[Fast Eddie]

Pretty sure the Switch blocks have the standard pin that goes into a hole in the clip on arrangement.

true, will pull them off and have a look. both can happily slide off the ends of the bars and they both twist around the handle bar freely.. so needs to be sorted. I go to give it gas and the whole thing just moves around in my hand.

So its prob safe to assume its missing some crucial pieces.

With all these little things on the bike I am amazed it got a VTNZ Wof just last week.. Sidestand was so loose it could be wriggled around and the 2 mount screws done up/undone with the finger. and the handlebar setup surely isnt wof standard.

oh well. she'll be right!

[ducatilover]

I'll try find the one I have and take a pic tomorrow lol

[Henk]

Thermo housing should be bolted to the left hand side of the mount for the PV oil pump cable splitter box from memory.

[Fast Eddie]

it tis :D you can see it in one of the photos.. I like the aprilia setup. everythings easy to work on and get to. Its great.

[Ollie.T]

I have noticed my RS doesnt like sitting at low RPMs for any extended amount of time (so really thats anything below 6-7k rpms). It floods a cylinder and dies but starts up fine again in half an hour or so. Could be a carb issue (really i have no idea - Im talking out of my ass :p ) but my mate who had a rgv said his bike did the same. The guy before me hadn't ridden it much in the last year or so - riding it from wellington to christchurch and back seemed to clear out a few cobwebs, It seemed to run better after that.

This could be why your bike died at idle?

[Fast Eddie]

I have noticed my RS doesnt like sitting at low RPMs for any extended amount of time (so really thats anything below 6-7k rpms). It floods a cylinder and dies but starts up fine again in half an hour or so. Could be a carb issue (really i have no idea - Im talking out of my ass :p ) but my mate who had a rgv said his bike did the same. The guy before me hadn't ridden it much in the last year or so - riding it from wellington to christchurch and back seemed to clear out a few cobwebs, It seemed to run better after that.

This could be why your bike died at idle?

It is possible my bro, top cylinders plug was very fouled with oil. it didn't have a problem idling and running though. was nice and steady but then after bringing the revs up to almost 8,000, when i released throttle they only dropped to 3,000.. so i gave it another few blips trying to get it to go back down and then it died. There is a good chance one of the piston rings is gone or something. lost compression on one cyl. I couldn't get my fixed stem compression tester in there to test it.

we will see. im getting there, barrels will be off today and will have a look see inside.

will be cleaning carbs/exhaust valves and pretty much rebuilding it now anyway since its in bits.

STILL LOOKING FOR A COMP TESTER I CAN BORROW FOR HALF AN HOUR IN DUNEDIN, AND ANYONE WITH A BATTERY CHARGER THAT I CAN GIVE U MY BATT TO CHARGE FOR A WHILE OR LOAN ME THE CHARGER :D WILL BUY YA A 6 PACK

[Fast Eddie]

Sweet, forget the comp tester don't need it anymore managed to remove some more bits and get mine in there. And a local lad was kind enough to bring around a battery charger so all set! Nothing like doing shit on the cheap!

Top cylinder 110psi bang on on a dead cold engine.
Bottom cylinder 112psi bang on.. obv dead cold engine as well

So that looks all above board to me, couldn't find manufacturers specs anywhere and got tired of fucking around looking through forums. I think I saw 120 or 130psi when engine was hot. But can't be sure. I only trust real manufacturers specs.

Fired her up, it did fire up which was good. Plenty of smoke coming from both exhausts now :) Kind of tossing up if I should put her back together and take it for a thrash.. have adjusted the powervalves but have not removed for inspection.. Its a bit of a mission and I don't have an impact driver to undo the mounting screws etc.

Gonna go see where I can get distilled water from for the cooling system.. or could I make it myself by boiling/capturing steam and then collecting the steam/droplets?

[ducatilover]

or could I make it myself by boiling/capturing steam and then collecting the steam/droplets?
Woah, calm down Doc!

[Fast Eddie]

Woah, calm down Doc!

haha when u have no money u gotta get creative.. making a litre of it now.. it may take some time!

[F5 Dave]

Don't need distilled water in NZ, just add tap water & glycol mix.

Leave those power valves un-inspected to your own detriment. If they are about flogged out you will soon be stripping it fully down & by then finding the cylinder, piston & pvs totally rooted.

[Fast Eddie]

oh sweet, flagging the distilling of the water haha!

yea I will be pulling them out for inspection I just can't do it now as I don't have an impact driver and I can't get the screws undone. Already tried.

I sprayed heaps of WD-40 in both assemblies and let all the gunk and oil and shit drip out. did that a few times.. they look fairly clean.

have adjusted both exhaust valves so they line up with the correct fully closed, half open marks.

Is there any tell tale signs before they fail F5Dave? im just refilling the cooling system now and going to warm it up to do another comp. test and to check full operation of exhaust valves and to make sure they line up with the fully open marks - check to make sure they fully open. prob drop the exhausts off and get my finger in there too

[F5 Dave]

They can make a tinkling noise as they increase in travel & rub against the piston. or just let go with no warning as the rivet falls apart. Can get them recond if not too bad.

Impact driver should rush you $20 at superch or Ripco. Every motorcyclist should own one.

[Ollie.T]

Last compression test I ran on mine, it read about 140-145 PSI i think... This is about 5000km after a rebuild (if the previous owner rebuilt it when he said he did, he couldn't find receipts to show me...)

I have the Mk 1 RS250 - currently saving my spare change to send the forks up to the suspension fairy, Mr Taylor!

[F5 Dave]

those mk1 forks are supposed to be a bit miserable inside. no doubt he'll have some opinions.

I never trust compression readings on a 2 stroke. Different meters will give wildly different results. Maybe if you measure the ring end as good & then measure it & write down the numbers & use the same gauge to measure wear from there.

[Ollie.T]

those mk1 forks are supposed to be a bit miserable inside. no doubt he'll have some opinions.

I think he ALWAYS has opinions, right? :p

If you manage to get the P/V screws out with a impact driver, people recommend replacing them with allen key ones

http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/store/product_info.php?products_id=455

[Fast Eddie]

They can make a tinkling noise as they increase in travel & rub against the piston. or just let go with no warning as the rivet falls apart. Can get them recond if not too bad.

Impact driver should rush you $20 at superch or Ripco. Every motorcyclist should own one.

Cheers for that, will get myself an impact driver soon & pull them out and look. Judging by the rest of the bike I'll assume they are neglected and will need repair. Does this tinkling noise happens at low rpm as well? or just 8,000+ when they are opening up? This one is quiet as down low but after 8k rpm there was a bit of a noise which I didn't think should be there. this noise disappeared and came back intermittantly - I only got the bike last week and just took it for the quick test ride the day I got it around the neighbourhood. I thought the noise shouldnt be there so started the strip down down to look. Also looking at the powervalve cables they probably need to be replaced eh
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seems strange that the ball ends should get so chewed up.


those mk1 forks are supposed to be a bit miserable inside. no doubt he'll have some opinions.

I never trust compression readings on a 2 stroke. Different meters will give wildly different results. Maybe if you measure the ring end as good & then measure it & write down the numbers & use the same gauge to measure wear from there.

nah, I'm not that fussed on the actual read outs anyway - I just wanted to see if they both displayed the same psi on the gauge and they do as I was wondering why only 1 cyl was firing - thought 1 might have lost compression. But compression test showed both had compression at least.. read 110psi on the guage and after cleaning the plugs up they both fire now.. Still running rough though. Carb clean etc next and a far bit of exhaust valve work.

haha the front suspension is wierd on these eh? 1 fork adjusts for compression or damping or something and the other fork adjusts for rebound? or something like that? seems so wierd. every other bike I've had the forks have been symetrical with both having adjustmenst for rebound/damping etc this is the first bike ive come across where both forks are different and serve different functions.

[Fast Eddie]

Last compression test I ran on mine, it read about 140-145 PSI i think... This is about 5000km after a rebuild (if the previous owner rebuilt it when he said he did, he couldn't find receipts to show me...)

I have the Mk 1 RS250 - currently saving my spare change to send the forks up to the suspension fairy, Mr Taylor!

nice, yea 140 is pretty high. I'll assume that was done on a hot engine?

mine is also the mk1 - Chesterfield replica with all the 250GP championship winning stickers and livery on it. I like it. Havent actually ridden it hard yet so yet to see what it can do. Just done a quick couple laps round the 'hood and it didn't feel quite right so needs some work.

How much did you pay for yours if you don't mine me asking.

[Fast Eddie]

Maybe if you measure the ring end as good & then measure it & write down the numbers & use the same gauge to measure wear from there.

Not sure if I follow what you mean sorry..

[tigertim20]

STILL LOOKING FOR A COMP TESTER I CAN BORROW FOR HALF AN HOUR IN DUNEDIN, AND ANYONE WITH A BATTERY CHARGER THAT I CAN GIVE U MY BATT TO CHARGE FOR A WHILE OR LOAN ME THE CHARGER :D WILL BUY YA A 6 PACK

come and get the charger, or drop the battery off anytime man.

as for the plastic bit with the throttle etc, talk to hayd3n on here or www.southernrider.co.nz, he is a plastic welder/ fabricator, so I bet he can either weld a lug on, and/or fill the screw holes with weld, then you can redo them at a standard size.

[Fast Eddie]

come and get the charger, or drop the battery off anytime man.

as for the plastic bit with the throttle etc, talk to hayd3n on here or www.southernrider.co.nz, he is a plastic welder/ fabricator, so I bet he can either weld a lug on, and/or fill the screw holes with weld, then you can redo them at a standard size.

Cheers bro! Another fella from Uni just dropped off a charger but thank you, its a really small charger so not sure if its going to do the trick, will send u PM if it doesnt charge. Much appreciated bro.

As for the Hayden idea - brilliant! I forgot all about him even though he makes it quite open that he works for booze/beer and is a plastic welder :) I think that will sort out the throttle and switch blocks a treat. Cheers for that bro!

Making progress on the RS.. the powervalves are a mess, the wires that run from the actuator have severly worn ball ends so need to try find replacements.. unless you can get new ball end bits attached to cables?

And will get an impact driver to whip out the valves and look at them.. im guessing it won't be pretty.

On the plus side I got both cylinders firing well, plenty of smoke coming out the tail pipes :D starts first kick from cold. ran a quick exhaust valve test and they do at least still operate, fully closed - half open - full open all the alignment marks line up very nicely so that is a plus. Will give them a recon and hopefully that will be that, new cables etc. Should be all go.

I couldn't tell much from the reed valves tho Tim, what should I be looking for? (and im assuming the reeds are the parts underneath the carbs?) I neglected to take a picture cause i just looked at them quick before putting the carbs and shit back on. They looked very clean and tidy from the top. But I didn't know what I should be looking for. My italian manual doesnt have any proceedure or instruction for checking the reeds.

What else did I do today.. not much. got it starting and running easily so it was a good sign to me. Going to tackle the disassembly and recon of the exhaust valves next and get them ship shape. Then going to do the disassembly and clean of the carbs. and finally the cleaning out of the exhausts. Then hoping to reassemble and run and ride and see how it is going. I can't afford base and head gaskets at the moment so hesitating to pull the cylinders off to look at the internals for now. The compression test was even and high enough to be normal so leaving it for now, and the engine is very quite and smooth revving.. Might save up for that 300cc kit and just run it until I can order that bad boy ex UK.

[Ollie.T]

How much did you pay for yours if you don't mine me asking.

Just over $4k. Man, so much fun to ride, its like your being chased by a huge swarm of bees!! And its quicker off the mark than my bros Ducati 750!

Another thing, the kick-starter vibrates a bit at certain rpm - its not that your hearing? :p

[Fast Eddie]

Just over $4k. Man, so much fun to ride, its like your being chased by a huge swarm of bees!! And its quicker off the mark than my bros Ducati 750!

Another thing, the kick-starter vibrates a bit at certain rpm - its not that your hearing? :p

Haha.. good point. Can't rule it out! but the bike is neglected. One can tell from the stripped screws, the electrical tape holding things together etc etc. It needs a strip down and some TLC anyway. But will check out the kickstarter too. :D Airbox wasn't even mounted on the carbs properly, the clutch fork bit down on the engine that the clutch cable attaches too was missing its bolt so could move up off the shaft if it wanted to etc etc. Poor wee thing. Its going to get a whole lotta love now though.

oh nice, good good about the price. I've seen them fetch 5k-7k eh And now they don't make them anymore I believe there is a chance the values may go up :D I'm still happy with my price despite needing a bit of work. I ended up paying 3,200 with new tyres, new reg and new wof and new gold chain and sprockets and this also included shipping from gisborne to dunedin which is about 450-550. It is a runner so in essence I like to think I paid 2,800 ish. It does need a fair bit of work though. It does run, but will investigate the powervalves as they can fail and cause expensive damage. and clean the carbs up cause I tracked the history with carjam and its done less than 1,000km since 2008. So over the last nearly 4 years its only done a couple of hundred kms a year. I think some people buy them and then are scared of them or something. I plan to ride this multiple times a week and rebuild it nearly as often haha.

have you seen the 300cc kits :D hehehe.. you can get some mean stuff for them. I'm going to re do my forks myself as well, noticed there is a wee bit of oil residue on the left fork so that seal is about to blow. I see some sweet progressive fancy springs for cheap in UK to chuck in. for a bit of a DIY upgrade. You mentioned your sending yours off to get pro - rebuilt/tuned? how much is that? I'm on a budget so everythings DIY if possible.

[Fast Eddie]

And its quicker off the mark than my bros Ducati 750!



Really? I didn't think 2 strokes were known for being quick off the line.. You might have a good style. I guess if you do it right, ride the clutch and get those rpms up high it will be quick :)

[Fast Eddie]

hehe another thing to point out.. despite it missing these crucial nuts and bolts and other crucial ones being only finger tight. It still got a brand new WOF from VTNZ on the 8th December... that worries me a little bit. I bet the sidestand would have fallen off with a few more engine runs and vibrations.. handle grips were soon to come off in my hands haha..

on a plus someone has lock tied the gearbox oil drain plug.. an oddity amongst a sea of neglect and loose screws. They made sure one wouldn't come undone!

[Katman]

As the title suggests. I'm looking for some 2 stroke experts in Dunedin that may want to help me out in the shed in exchange for drink/smoke/food.



True experts rarely work for drink/smoke/food.

[Henk]

True experts rarely work for drink/smoke/food.

Possibly but lots of very knowledgeable folk will help others for shits and giggles.

[Ollie.T]

on a plus someone has lock tied the gearbox oil drain plug.. an oddity amongst a sea of neglect and loose screws. They made sure one wouldn't come undone!

is yours a ex track bike? drain plugs need to be wired on and side stand needs to to be wired up/taken off in order to be taken out on the track right? Could also explain low kms in the last few years if the dash etc had been taken off too? Also new tyres when sold, if it had slicks, it would need them for a W.o.F

Saw one of your pipes has a bit of road rash on it too, a previous owner of mine has sawn off the curvy bit at the ends of the cans on mine and rotated them to hide some damage.

[Fast Eddie]

True experts rarely work for drink/smoke/food.

yep but when they do its all good.

[Fast Eddie]

is yours a ex track bike? drain plugs need to be wired on and side stand needs to to be wired up/taken off in order to be taken out on the track right? Could also explain low kms in the last few years if the dash etc had been taken off too? Also new tyres when sold, if it had slicks, it would need them for a W.o.F

Saw one of your pipes has a bit of road rash on it too, a previous owner of mine has sawn off the curvy bit at the ends of the cans on mine and rotated them to hide some damage.

oh no doubt its been a track toy of some sort. Braided brake lines, braided oil line, looks like it has a different shock in the back etc. Wasn't the previous owner though. I saw the tyres on it and they were just roadies that were worn in the middle. He said it scared him and he never rode it. Was his first and only road bike.

:) Not sure if the dash has been taken off.. most of the screws i've undone are rusty and semi siezed suggesting the old girl hasnt been apart in a long time.. It was prob some japs toy before it was imported here. it was only imported a few years ago, only couple nz owners. But who knows really eh. Shes an old bike I'm sure its got some stories to tell. Its done 28,000 on the clock.

hehe funny about the attempting to hide exhaust damage.. why bother eh. These have a little scuff on the edge, nothing too major. I scrape my blades muffler on occasion when the leaning gets serious. Think u can get higher mounting kits etc. Doesn't look like its gone for a proper crash yet - orig sidecovers/fairings/paint. and the expansion chambers and top muffler and mounts are all mint bar being a little dirty at the mo. They are a learner legal bike and its old.. and its an RS.. no doubt its been on its side. But shes pretty straight.

[Fast Eddie]

but lots of very knowledgeable folk will help others for shits and giggles.

Bingo.. except those like Katman.. hes probably an expert.. wouldn't help anyone out for the love of it

[Henk]

I saw the tyres on it and they were just roadies that were worn in the middle.

Seems to be the normal pattern. We collected a VJ22 for a guy from Hawkes bay that had square tyres because the ex owner obviously didn't like corners. It was the delivery trip for that bike that made my darling wife say something along the lines of "I'd quite like a two stroke" the RS we bought had shinkos on it when we got it. Seriously? Why buy one of the best handling bikes you can get your hands on and then put nylon tyres on it and only use the middle bit. Some people just don't get it.

[F5 Dave]

Not sure if I follow what you mean sorry..
I mean when you do a rebuild &/or check the rings as known good -that is when you know com is ok. Then you could trust that gauge on that engine.

[Fast Eddie]

I mean when you do a rebuild &/or check the rings as known good -that is when you know com is ok. Then you could trust that gauge on that engine.

Ah I get ya :) thanks for clearing that up and thanks for the help.

Found a few bits to modify my power valves from the tuningworks in the uk. Should get rid of that nasty weak pin/rivet thing.

These are great to work on eh! flag four strokes.. might sell the fireblade..

Need to build me a 500cc 2 stroker

[Fast Eddie]

.. the RS we bought had shinkos on it when we got it. Seriously? Why buy one of the best handling bikes you can get your hands on and then put nylon tyres on it and only use the middle bit. Some people just don't get it.

haha guess what they put on this one? shinkos... terrible. Oh well, I'll run em for now since they are new and they came on the bike.. but will swap em as soon as possible. I don't understand cheap tyres either... They are the only things that keep you on the road, thats where people should spend the money! tyres and suspension all the way.

[ducatilover]

the RS we bought had shinkos on it when we got it. Seriously? Why buy one of the best handling bikes you can get your hands on and then put nylon tyres on it and only use the middle bit. Some people just don't get it.

:facepalm: That's like buying a Harley to go fast... Doesn't make any sense at all.
If I had a 2T RGV/NSR etc it'd be a weekend toy for going around corners on its ear!

[Fast Eddie]

:facepalm: That's like buying a Harley to go fast... Doesn't make any sense at all.
If I had a 2T RGV/NSR etc it'd be a weekend toy for going around corners on its ear!

ya, thats the point. I'm not having it to commute or cruise the open straight highway :D

oh well, I guess they are the cheapest tyres around and when your selling a bike you don't really give a hoot except that it passes wof eh.

I might grab some nicer rubber and try recoup my costs by selling the ones on it on trademe, might be some other fella looking for these lovely shinkos for his 2stroke race rep.

[ducatilover]

I might grab some nicer rubber and try recoup my costs by selling the ones on it on trademe, might be some other fella looking for these lovely shinkos for his 2stroke race rep.

Just do iiiiit.
Michelin Pilot Sporty might be worth a shot? I hear they're quite decent.

[Fast Eddie]

yeeee boy.

Yea I'll get somethin sticky, Dunlop make some sticky stuff for small bikes. Its down the bottom on the list of things to do though.

Replacing some powervalve parts and reconditioning these first. They need a bit of an overhaul after all. Then going to do the carbs and get them setup nice. And took exhaust off there is heaps of oil and gunk in them.. Gotta clean them somehow.. Think I saw a section on it in the manual.

Fun! hehe, shes going to be pretty mint. Looks like im going to be spraying and polishing some bits by hand Ducatilover - what gold is that on your forks? where did you purchase - color code? manufacturer? It looks very much like the gold ohlins uses (altho im colorblind) I might copy that :D and grab a little ohlins sticker ;)

and gonna repaint the triple clamps and get new clip ons and lever and shit. just cheap stuff. Can't afford rear sets - they are so expensive! and exhaust are expensive as shit too. Flag them for a while

[ducatilover]

Fun! hehe, shes going to be pretty mint. Looks like im going to be spraying and polishing some bits by hand Ducatilover - what gold is that on your forks? where did you purchase - color code? manufacturer? It looks very much like the gold ohlins uses (altho im colorblind) I might copy that :D and grab a little ohlins sticker ;)

and gonna repaint the triple clamps and get new clip ons and lever and shit. just cheap stuff. Can't afford rear sets - they are so expensive! and exhaust are expensive as shit too. Flag them for a while
My forks are Kawasaki ZXR400H ones, and it's factory anodising I think. One day they'll be re-done in Ohlins gold :D
I have to do fucking everything by hand, can't afford them fancy power tools :facepalm:

[Fast Eddie]

My forks are Kawasaki ZXR400H ones, and it's factory anodising I think. One day they'll be re-done in Ohlins gold :D
I have to do fucking everything by hand, can't afford them fancy power tools :facepalm:

Ah damn, they do look good.. I have a friend that works in paint shop so he'll know more than me, might be able to get me a sweet gold that looks close enough. I'm the one that looks at the thing the most so whatever looks close to me will do :)

waddya recon: currently like this

252987

but repaint current parts like this, although would try polish the rims and have red centers.. but the if the polishing is as tedious as I think it will be I may flag and just go black rim..

252988

my fireblades are bright yellow so yes.. I like colorful things haha

[Fast Eddie]

oh, mine didn't arrive with these tho which is a shame:

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[ducatilover]

Anodise them with dye mate. Paint will make it harder to get the forks in/out of the triples. A decent dyed anodised look won't fade and should be cheap. It's only several microns thick, so won't fuck up the O/D of the forks :Police:

[Ollie.T]

Wire brush/Sand down and repaint your pipes? Hell of a lot cheaper than buying new ones. only takes an hour or so and makes them look heaps better. Just make sure you get some high temp paint from your mate at the paint shop :p

[Ollie.T]

oh, mine didn't arrive with these tho which is a shame:

252989

Is that "don't touch" sign talking about the chicks or the bike? :shifty:

[Fast Eddie]

Anodise them with dye mate. Paint will make it harder to get the forks in/out of the triples. A decent dyed anodised look won't fade and should be cheap. It's only several microns thick, so won't fuck up the O/D of the forks :Police:

naturally I overlooked the increase in fork diameter lol.. yea anodising is the look I want anyway. like ur forks :) hopeful that it will be cheap :D

[Fast Eddie]

Wire brush/Sand down and repaint your pipes? Hell of a lot cheaper than buying new ones. only takes an hour or so and makes them look heaps better. Just make sure you get some high temp paint from your mate at the paint shop :p

oh totally, I'll try and touch these ones up to make them look fresh for now - I actually wanted the pipes for performance :D not aesthetics hehe. But your right, I can't afford new ones so will clean these ones up for now. I'll make em mint.

Prob can't do much about the scuffs on the mufflers but ill get creative and at least smooth them off and tidy em up as well.

[Fast Eddie]

Is that "don't touch" sign talking about the chicks or the bike? :shifty:

haha don't touch the bike, its higher maintenance than the chicks so you can touch them anyway you want :love:

[Kickaha]

Maybe you should have used your time at Uni to study something useful (like 2 stroke motorcycles)

[ducatilover]

naturally I overlooked the increase in fork diameter lol.. yea anodising is the look I want anyway. like ur forks :) hopeful that it will be cheap :D
It is, you can even do it yourself. I might do my brake callipers gold

[tigertim20]

this thread is progressing fast enough I keep getting behind!

Cheers bro! Another fella from Uni just dropped off a charger but thank you, its a really small charger so not sure if its going to do the trick, will send u PM if it doesnt charge. Much appreciated bro.

As for the Hayden idea - brilliant! I forgot all about him even though he makes it quite open that he works for booze/beer and is a plastic welder :) I think that will sort out the throttle and switch blocks a treat. Cheers for that bro!

Making progress on the RS.. the powervalves are a mess, the wires that run from the actuator have severly worn ball ends so need to try find replacements.. unless you can get new ball end bits attached to cables?

I couldn't tell much from the reed valves tho Tim, what should I be looking for? (and im assuming the reeds are the parts underneath the carbs?) I neglected to take a picture cause i just looked at them quick before putting the carbs and shit back on. They looked very clean and tidy from the top. But I didn't know what I should be looking for. My italian manual doesnt have any proceedure or instruction for checking the reeds.

.
sweet as re the charger, if you need it, its here for you.
as for the ball ends, is it just the balls themselves that are worn down and are a bit loose in their holders, or is the wire attached to the ball worn and fraying as well? if its a matter of loose fit, Im fairly sure you can get a plastic clip thingy that goes over the ball, you just sort of push it on. You often see a similar thing on the bit that slots into the lever on a clutch cable etc as well, that might help out if its not frayed/stretched wires.
reeds, make sure the edges are smooth, and not worn down, no holes and chipping around the edges etc there should be something in the manual about how to check that the condition is OK.

True experts rarely work for drink/smoke/food.
some do it for money, some do it for love.

[Kickaha]

some do it for love.

If it is Fast Eddie you're talking about it's likely to be gay man love (so I am told)

[Fast Eddie]

If it is Fast Eddie you're talking about it's likely to be gay man love (so I am told)

theres that pirate thing again I was talking about hahaha :yes: (edit: he was talking bout experts so no I dont think he was referring to me anyway)

[Kickaha]

theres that pirate thing again I was talking about hahaha :yes:

I will make sure I never ever race on the same Sidecar as you:facepalm:

[Fast Eddie]

...that might help out if its not frayed/stretched wires.
reeds, make sure the edges are smooth, and not worn down, no holes and chipping around the edges etc there should be something in the manual about how to check that the condition is OK.


nice idea about the resleeving, cables are sweet. no fraying etc. just the ball ends that are munted. Will check out sleeve options but found a set of all the cables I need for 50.00 buck plus shipping so not the end of the world.

Will have another read through the manual to look for reed inspection. Then engine section alone is 170 pages of pretty small text! haha.. But from what I saw from the top they actually looked fairly new/clean and no signs of wear and tear but I only looked from the top down after I had taken the carbs off.

cher cher. off on holiday up north for a couple weeks with the mrs on tues. Will get back into it proper in the new year.

[Fast Eddie]

I will make sure I never ever race on the same Sidecar as you:facepalm:

ha! :innocent: you are smarter than the average bear. Its why old AJ keeps looking over his shoulder during races..

[Fast Eddie]

ok - back to thinking bout bikes and poon

253022

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[Fast Eddie]

Maybe you should have used your time at Uni to study something useful (like 2 stroke motorcycles)

your not wrong there chief!

[Fast Eddie]

Couple of photos, got a rusted out water inlet/outlet spigot whatever its called.. Is this removeable and replaceable? I gave it a taps to try get it out but not too easily.
Got a broken piston skirt
and finally got a stripped out screw that holds the exhaust valve arm onto its actuating shaft.. really need to get that screw out so i can remove the arm/shaft and then get the valves out.


256633256632256634


slow progress, also have leaking front forks now and one of the exhausts seems a bit iffy where it mounts up to the cylinder.. more photos later

[ducatilover]

That little fucker should be removable

[cowpoos]

There was a ridiculous amount of oil and grease all over the engine, especially around the exhaust port of the left cylinder and all over the exhaust manifold..



Engine fired up and sounded good today, I left it to idle for a while to see what it would do, Started trying to check powervalve operation as per workshop manual but after a while it dropped its idle rpms and then died.. Hasn't restarted on both cylinders since sooo..

I'ld be search for ignition first...oil grease around exhaust port = possibly unburnt fuel...not restarting on both cylinders just point towards that. leave the power valve for now.

[F5 Dave]

That tube may be a bitch to get out, to be honest it might be as easy to find a thin tube to go inside it. there will be more of a restriction elsewhere in the system so as long as you don't reduce it too much for too long the cooling shouldn't be affected.

I'd never leave the PVs, - you must check them on RGVs. Maybe from there you can put your finger on them & see if there is any slop.

[Fast Eddie]

That little fucker should be removable

drilling that screw out.. bastard thing.

haven't tried removing water thing... looks pretty stuck in there aye but the individual part is avail for sale so it must come out eh.

[Fast Eddie]

I'ld be search for ignition first...oil grease around exhaust port = possibly unburnt fuel...not restarting on both cylinders just point towards that. leave the power valve for now.

it runs fine, I just took the plugs out and cleaned them really and it fired up sweet. its got pleeenty of other problems to deal with. Have got powervavles out, you gotta check em regularly eh. gotta check everything heaps

[Fast Eddie]

That tube may be a bitch to get out, to be honest it might be as easy to find a thin tube to go inside it. there will be more of a restriction elsewhere in the system so as long as you don't reduce it too much for too long the cooling shouldn't be affected.

I'd never leave the PVs, - you must check them on RGVs. Maybe from there you can put your finger on them & see if there is any slop.

Yea not sure how to approach it for now, I dont want to break off whats left and have bit stuck inside. The parts is avail for sale individually, the little outlet pipe.. so leads me to believe it must come out. But its probably well rusted in there on mine.

Will consider putting a thin sleeve inside it, not a bad idea. Would have to keep an eye on temps I guess.

And yea, gotta check the pistons and valves all the time eh, easy enough to get to. Got my valves out and cylinders off at the moment, I think they look ok. Will get some advice from someone that knows more, pistons are shagged so new ones n rings etc going in..

[imdying]

Yes spigot is easy. Grip it in your vice, and then tap the barrel with a soft faced hammer. It'll come out with not much effort. Replacement is easy enough, TTW has them, or your local Suzuki dealer (they're really good to deal with on RGVs IME). When you crush it in the vice, it'll pull most of it away from the wall, so then there's bugger all holding it in, which is why they're pretty easy to get out.

Valves aren't much of a headache, just check the roll pins on the middle blade are tight. They should also be a dual roll pin, the singles fail. Arm screw is a 3mm hex IIRC, just hit it with a torch, it'll come out. All those parts are readily available too and quite cheap.

Top end rebuild kits are cheap, just make sure you use OEM parts and not the pattern rubbish from trademe.

[Fast Eddie]

Yes spigot is easy. Grip it in your vice, and then tap the barrel with a soft faced hammer. It'll come out with not much effort. Replacement is easy enough, TTW has them, or your local Suzuki dealer (they're really good to deal with on RGVs IME). When you crush it in the vice, it'll pull most of it away from the wall, so then there's bugger all holding it in, which is why they're pretty easy to get out.

Valves aren't much of a headache, just check the roll pins on the middle blade are tight. They should also be a dual roll pin, the singles fail. Arm screw is a 3mm hex IIRC, just hit it with a torch, it'll come out. All those parts are readily available too and quite cheap.

Top end rebuild kits are cheap, just make sure you use OEM parts and not the pattern rubbish from trademe.

Awesome, cheers man. Will give that a go on the spigot soon. Yea I been surfing on TTW, i might see if there is a suzuki dealer down here in dunners and get some prices but TTW is cheap enough eh.

I have the cylinders off now and looking at the valves while I replace the pistons which are shagged. Pretty sure I have the mentioned cheaper pattern pistons off ebay.. I'll put pic up soon. Should I flag them and get real suzuki bits?
Should I be looking at the powervalves while they are still all in the cylinder and just slide them up and down from full open to closed and look for what?

I already wrecked that 3mm hex so having to drill it out now and replace shaft and little arm.. dunno why it was stuck in there so bad aye. had penetrating oil, little impact driver and good snap on hex bit that wasnt shagged.. but yea it went pear shaped quickly. Easy outs etc wouldnt get it out either

[Fast Eddie]

258750258749258748

bought a couple of these with rings and pins and what not, full gasket set.

They were labelled as new old stock aprilia rs250 pistons but who knows off ebay eh.. was planning on using them since I have them..

[eelracing]

I have the cylinders off now and looking at the valves while I replace the pistons which are shagged.
Should I be looking at the powervalves while they are still all in the cylinder and just slide them up and down from full open to closed and look for what?



Valves aren't much of a headache, just check the roll pins on the middle blade are tight. They should also be a dual roll pin, the singles fail.


Here's some I prepared earlier.:rolleyes:
This is what imdying is warning you about...don't let them get this far.If there is even a hint of play they will quickly be toast (these were just nipping the piston)
Also look for ovalling of the holes in the PV caps,if there is any then best bet will be replacement.

[Fast Eddie]

Here's some I prepared earlier.:rolleyes:
This is what imdying is warning you about...don't let them get this far.If there is even a hint of play they will quickly be toast (these were just nipping the piston)
Also look for ovalling of the holes in the PV caps,if there is any then best bet will be replacement.

cheers bro! ok so I have both my cylinders out and have both valve assemblies loose and ready to pull out.. again im not exactly sure what sort of play i am looking for.. should I check for play of the entire valve set up (3 blades together)when its in the cylinder, or should I take them out and check for play between the blades..

I noticed while the bike was still together and running that there was a bit of play in the pulley/shaft and cables that opens and closes the valves.

but yea basically gotta confirm if the valves are OK or need of repair and then I can put it all back together and ride!

[Fast Eddie]

will pull em out and take some photos too.

the pistons i pulled out where pretty munted, wonder if they were contacting with the valves but the blade tips look pretty clean at a glance while they are still in the cyl with the cyl off the bike/engine

[imdying]

I noticed while the bike was still together and running that there was a bit of play in the pulley/shaft and cables that opens and closes the valves.Check the pulleys. The tang that sticks out towards the cylinder, and meets the other tang in the over limit spring, wears. You could build them up with weld, but new pulleys are cheap and easy to get from Suzuki. Of course there's a few other place that cause slop too, but those are worth checking.

If you're keeping it and you don't have twin roll pin valves (93-), either fit billet valves, or toss the centres and fit billet centres to the original valves. Problem solved.

[Fast Eddie]

Check the pulleys. The tang that sticks out towards the cylinder, and meets the other tang in the over limit spring, wears. You could build them up with weld, but new pulleys are cheap and easy to get from Suzuki. Of course there's a few other place that cause slop too, but those are worth checking.

If you're keeping it and you don't have twin roll pin valves (93-), either fit billet valves, or toss the centres and fit billet centres to the original valves. Problem solved.

cheers,

I have a 94 aprilia rs so.. unsure of what valves are in it, i think its the vj22 suzuki unit aprilia used. I saw the billet centres avail on thetuningworks.co.uk

[imdying]

All Aprilia RS250s come with the same VJ22 engine. They're for the most part the same as the Suzuki engine, there's a mostly trivial change to the heads, pipes, minor jetting change, and a different SAPC, which for the most part is a reprofile of the PV curve (start point shifted 500~rpm). The valve type will be obvious after a visual inspection; it's either a 5mm roll pin with a smaller roll pin up the guts, or it's not. Don't disassemble the valve blades stoned, it's like a Chinese finger puzzle the first time.

[Fast Eddie]

Don't disassemble the valve blades stoned, it's like a Chinese finger puzzle the first time.

duly noted haha.. tomorrow then.

[Fast Eddie]

couple of photos of the 2 pistons that came out of the Aprilia..

259665259666259667259668259669

piston on the green(or brown) background is from the bottom cyl and piston on the multicolor/lighter background is from the top cylinder.

[Fast Eddie]

when installing new pistons, arrow on piston top should be pointing to the exhaust right?

italian manual is tricky to follow at times. but general google said arrow point to exhaust

[eelracing]

when installing new pistons, arrow on piston top should be pointing to the exhaust right?


That is correct.

[F5 Dave]

um. . .so where are the missing bits?

I'd at a min be flushing the bottom end out which means kero fill it & turn it upside down correct kero strain through a hankie, do again. Fresh kero. repeat, rotate crank, flush repeat. I've just done this with a race bike & must have repeated 20 times & was still getting specs of ally.

[Fast Eddie]

um. . .so where are the missing bits?

Very good question man.. The crankcase is still in the bike frame, I didnt really want to take it out but guess I'll have to to flush it out. unsure where the bits of the piston have gone.. bike was running when I got it and I rode it around a wee bit before deciding to pull it apart haha..

mmmmmm, couldnt see any bits by eye at the moment got the flash light pointing around in there.

I had the idea that some dodgy cunt had the pistons fail on him, pulled the cylinders off, fished the broken bits out and then just put it back together with the rooted pistons.. I thought if those bits of metal were floating around in the crank they would have lunched the whole thing and made a mess but just from looking down from the top its all smooth and shiny doesnt look like any damage. Even the cylinders themselves are OK and wont bother replating them this time around.

[Fast Eddie]

I'd at a min be flushing the bottom end out which means kero fill it & turn it upside down correct kero strain through a hankie, do again. Fresh kero. repeat, rotate crank, flush repeat. I've just done this with a race bike & must have repeated 20 times & was still getting specs of ally.

cheers for the directions, guess the crankcase/engine will have to come out of the frame for this.. damn it.

didnt quite catch this bit "..correct kero strain through a hankie" what did you mean correct kero?

cheer for the help!

[F5 Dave]

Solly I must be channelling my previously unknown inner asian. I meant Collect the kero in a bowl & strain it to remove ally dust & flush again.

Yes I did wonder about the piston being broken, maybe even by inattention while apart & turning the engine over. but I'd be flushing it like crazy. $15 of kero & some effort is worth it. Only laziness would prevent me doing what should be done, which is complete bottom end strip. just a little bit of debris could jam a roller & stop it spinning just for a second & it would get a flat & never roll again with quick consequences thereafter.

[Fast Eddie]

Solly I must be channelling my previously unknown inner asian. I meant Collect the kero in a bowl & strain it to remove ally dust & flush again.

Yes I did wonder about the piston being broken, maybe even by inattention while apart & turning the engine over. but I'd be flushing it like crazy. $15 of kero & some effort is worth it. Only laziness would prevent me doing what should be done, which is complete bottom end strip. just a little bit of debris could jam a roller & stop it spinning just for a second & it would get a flat & never roll again with quick consequences thereafter.

good point.

sigh, more work then before I can ride it haha.. was keen to put it back together and go for a burn. Its my first time stripping a 2 stroke down so its a learning curve and the italian manual with rough english translation sometimes, which is photocopied is hard to follow sometimes but should be alright.

[imdying]

italian manual is tricky to follow at times. but general google said arrow point to exhaustDon't, follow the RGV one.

[Fast Eddie]

I should use the RGV manual instead?

might see if its avail online, I got given the aprilia one so was just sort of going by it.. not really. I'm looking to pull the crankcase/bottom out of the frame with minimal unhooking of cables and hoses and electrics at the moment. think I see a way

[imdying]

I should use the RGV manual instead?

might see if its avail online, I got given the aprilia one so was just sort of going by it.. not really. I'm looking to pull the crankcase/bottom out of the frame with minimal unhooking of cables and hoses and electrics at the moment. think I see a way

I can send them to you if you require. You'll want the base VJ21, plus the two VJ22 supplementaries. Might as well rip off the kit manual whilst you're there. I would recommend removing all of the cables and hoses, check the hoses for perishing and/or blockages, and check the cables for fraying and/or bends that have kinked the outer cable, and/or kinks where they meet the adjusters. If you have trouble sourcing cables (you should not), I can either repair them for you, or I can recommend somebody in Southland who fixes them (pretty sure I could find someone, or try at least). The RS is typically race bred two stroke; it relies on every aspect of its operation being 'sorted'. You need to double check things like the plastic nuts that screw into the carbs where the choke cable is. If they're broken, the carbs will ingest air there which will run it lean, and that has cost people new top ends. If you've laid tips on all the bits, you'll have peace of mind if nothing else. The electrics should be neither here nor there; I've completely rewired my RGV and there's maybe 50 wires in the whole bike, and most of those go to the SAPC. Assuming the Italians have two brain cells to rub together, there shouldn't be any connectors that you can plug into the wrong place!

Can't go wrong mate, just take your time and enjoy yourself. You can get flywheel pullers and flywheel holders from eBay, so there really isn't anything short of reconditioning the crank you can't achieve at home. If you've a bit of spare coin, Sean has a complete 300 kit for sale at the moment. I kinda have my eyes on it... might buy it for a winter project if nobody snatches it up.

[Fast Eddie]

I can send them to you if you require. You'll want the base VJ21, plus the two VJ22 supplementaries. Might as well rip off the kit manual whilst you're there. I would recommend removing all of the cables and hoses, check the hoses for perishing and/or blockages, and check the cables for fraying and/or bends that have kinked the outer cable, and/or kinks where they meet the adjusters. If you have trouble sourcing cables (you should not), I can either repair them for you, or I can recommend somebody in Southland who fixes them (pretty sure I could find someone, or try at least). The RS is typically race bred two stroke; it relies on every aspect of its operation being 'sorted'. You need to double check things like the plastic nuts that screw into the carbs where the choke cable is. If they're broken, the carbs will ingest air there which will run it lean, and that has cost people new top ends. If you've laid tips on all the bits, you'll have peace of mind if nothing else. The electrics should be neither here nor there; I've completely rewired my RGV and there's maybe 50 wires in the whole bike, and most of those go to the SAPC. Assuming the Italians have two brain cells to rub together, there shouldn't be any connectors that you can plug into the wrong place!

Can't go wrong mate, just take your time and enjoy yourself. You can get flywheel pullers and flywheel holders from eBay, so there really isn't anything short of reconditioning the crank you can't achieve at home. If you've a bit of spare coin, Sean has a complete 300 kit for sale at the moment. I kinda have my eyes on it... might buy it for a winter project if nobody snatches it up.

haha, I have been eyeing up the 300 kits on The Tuning Works.co.uk eh. but I'll get the original engine sorted first!

I have seen there is some choke cable damage on bottom cylinders carb, someones done some sort of tie wire arrangement on it :S

Yea, the stripping will continue, might as well get it well sorted and tidy. Have already bought all new power valve cables ex somewhere in asia, they look ok. havent fitted yet. so that will cover the servo to each powervalve pulley. Throttle cable looks ok and the cables from the multi box look ok. Apparently you cant open that multibox up? so replacing cables would seem tricky. but will look at them closely.

Will do as you suggest :) she will be getting a full strip and reassembly then. It is fun most of the time, I'v had a few screws now that I have not been able to get undone. Thats the most fustrating bit as I then have to take the part to an engineers shop and hope they can help me out. So far so good.

Cheers again for the advice and guidance, will follow it and carry on stripping down. Low on funds as a uni student but I have some good tools I'v collected over the years.

if you have time to send any manuals or info that would be great, email is kma167@uclive.ac.nz

much appreciated aye.

[Fast Eddie]

Sean has a complete 300 kit for sale at the moment. I kinda have my eyes on it... might buy it for a winter project if nobody snatches it up.

ya wouldnt know what he wants $$ wise for it do you? haha.. Cause one ex UK will set ya back a few pound.

[imdying]

Apparently you cant open that multibox up?I have not seen one in person, but given that the cross brace it mounts to is eerily similar to the RGV one, I expect the multi box is near the same also (we are talking about the one with the TPS right?) If so, there is a small catch that will be evident if you squeeze the sides together. It's little more than the way they've shapped the plastic, and isn't held by very much force, as it utilised that metal piece that goes across the top of it (secured by the two self tappers) to retain it. Steady as she goes, you should encounter nothing that requires much force.

[Fast Eddie]

I have not seen one in person, but given that the cross brace it mounts to is eerily similar to the RGV one, I expect the multi box is near the same also (we are talking about the one with the TPS right?) If so, there is a small catch that will be evident if you squeeze the sides together. It's little more than the way they've shapped the plastic, and isn't held by very much force, as it utilised that metal piece that goes across the top of it (secured by the two self tappers) to retain it. Steady as she goes, you should encounter nothing that requires much force.

mint, yea id say it is the same unit as suzuki.. the throttle cable goes to that and then the lines to both carbs the oil pump and the p/valve servo goes off from there.

It was more my manual i have saying "dont open box as it is specially calibrated during manufacture"

anyway, one thing at a time, getting the bottom end out of the frame and checkin thru wires/lines etc.. its like tangled string shit everywhere. Good chance to tidy it up a bit maybe

[Fast Eddie]

Got your email with the manuals imdying, much appreciated aye you've been very helpful - will prob be bugging you in the near future and the rebuild progresses.

much appreciated mate, buy that man a beer (someone else, not me im broke)

[Kickaha]

It was more my manual i have saying "dont open box as it is specially calibrated during manufacture"


Prise it open with a screwdriver, what would the manufacturers know about it

[Fast Eddie]

Prise it open with a screwdriver, what would the manufacturers know about it

hahaha! not much, some of the italian welds are quite messy on the frame eh, bit of splatter n shit

[imdying]

I have more but your mail server rejected them, I'll sort it out over the weekend.

The calibrated bit it is the TPS, but it's nothing to worry about. You can swap out TPS units fine. It's not like a TPS on an EFI system as far as accuracy of calibration goes, although the sensor itself functions in the exact same way. If it worries you at all, take an ohms reading across it at closed and WOT, and then reset it up to match when you're done. You don't have to remove it from the housing though, so you probably won't change the adjustment anyway.

[Fast Eddie]

I have more but your mail server rejected them, I'll sort it out over the weekend.

The calibrated bit it is the TPS, but it's nothing to worry about. You can swap out TPS units fine. It's not like a TPS on an EFI system as far as accuracy of calibration goes, although the sensor itself functions in the exact same way. If it worries you at all, take an ohms reading across it at closed and WOT, and then reset it up to match when you're done. You don't have to remove it from the housing though, so you probably won't change the adjustment anyway.

awesome! thank you very much.

inbox doesnt appear to be full so hopefully the email server will behave itself later - But thanks for all the info its very useful.. back into the aprilia tonight - been sidetracked with the girlfriends GN250 electrical probs

if ya know anything about gn250s have a look at my thread in the electrical section :yes:

[Fast Eddie]

Hey imdying - while I was preparing to take out the engine from frame today I saw the bottom cyl carb had some messy bastard at it, and the choke cable going into it was missing its threaded plastic nut to screw into the carb, inplace it had lots of tie wire wrapped around the choke cable and the carb itself, I have no doubt there was a sweet air leak there if thats what you mentioned in an earlier post about the choke cables?

Also, now I need to find a new one of those threaded plastic nuts to secure choke cable into carb - or replace the whole choke cable setup.. which is prob dear since it looks like a 3 cable setup.

been thwarted by the rear axle, think its a 26mm nut and i had 25mm and 27mm or something similar, will txt the snap on fella to drop a bit round tmoro.

reeds look mint and carbs look good but need a clean. not much else to update.. lots of bits need replacing or repairing, switchblock on the left (choke/lights) is a mess and may need a whole replacement unit unless repair is possible, someones shoved a screw in the inside of the switchblock that wraps around the clipon in an effort to get more grip so it doesnt slip on the clipon.. messy cunts, same on the throttle side.

on a plus, throttle cables/oil pump cable etc in the multibox all look in good cond with no worn ball ends.. could measure the cables to check for stretch I guess?

more to come tomorrow, its almost all stripped down and then will start a new thread to cover the whole rebuild. should be a bit of polishing, painting and light engine work - imdying - what specs would you go off if you were to blue print one of these, are the specs in those manuals u emailed me accurate/factory specs? i havent looked through them for all the measurements yet but I know my italian manual is lacking a few numbers

[Kickaha]

will txt the snap on fella to drop a bit round tmoro.

snap on? must be a cunt being a poor impoverished student :bleh:

[Fast Eddie]

snap on? must be a cunt being a poor impoverished student :bleh:

haha, nah just spending err investing my student allowance wisely

[ducatilover]

haha, nah just spending err investing my student allowance wisely
I only had a boat, bike and V8 as a student :bleh:

[Fast Eddie]

I only had a boat, bike and V8 as a student :bleh:

son of a bi...

I got 2 bikes and half a sidecar (maybe count it as 3 bikes haha)

had a couple V8 rovers but petrol is pricey to run the baby 8s

student life is tough, no denying that.

[ducatilover]

son of a bi...

I got 2 bikes and half a sidecar (maybe count it as 3 bikes haha)

had a couple V8 rovers but petrol is pricey to run the baby 8s

student life is tough, no denying that.
I may have had them from working and then buying toys and selling 'em when I was a student though lol but I technically had 'em when I was a student. :innocent:
My P6b wasn't the best on petrol...

[imdying]

I'll get off my arse and resend the failed stuff. Been a bit busy lately, but I'll try to remember to get it done.

Those plastic choke nuts, from Suzuki or TTW, probably ~$10 iirc.

Just build it standard to factory Suzuki specs. The engine out is only a few hours, so you can always go back in there. It's a lot easier to set up a standard motor.

Cables don't stretch, they're steel.

[Fast Eddie]

I'll get off my arse and resend the failed stuff. Been a bit busy lately, but I'll try to remember to get it done.

Those plastic choke nuts, from Suzuki or TTW, probably ~$10 iirc.

Just build it standard to factory Suzuki specs. The engine out is only a few hours, so you can always go back in there. It's a lot easier to set up a standard motor.

Cables don't stretch, they're steel.

Cheers Yoda! haha, mint, well carb cables/oil cables throttle cable all look in good condition, so just replacing the powervalve cables which have munched up ball ends.

many thanks in advance for having a go sending the failed stuff, email again is kma167@uclive.ac.nz the stuff you sent last time has been a great read, especially the 2 stroke tuning tips/setup tips etc.

I thought I will have a go at measuring and checking and altering the engine to match it up to factory specs. a bit of smoothing of ports and matching up ports and gaskets etc etc, very interested in the squish clearance set up etc too. See how I go!

[imdying]

Cheers Yoda! haha, mint, well carb cables/oil cables throttle cable all look in good condition, so just replacing the powervalve cables which have munched up ball ends.

many thanks in advance for having a go sending the failed stuff, email again is kma167@uclive.ac.nz the stuff you sent last time has been a great read, especially the 2 stroke tuning tips/setup tips etc.

I thought I will have a go at measuring and checking and altering the engine to match it up to factory specs. a bit of smoothing of ports and matching up ports and gaskets etc etc, very interested in the squish clearance set up etc too. See how I go!

Yeah, good setup in that matter is what you should be aiming for... make sure none of the gaskets are blocking any ports, and those sort of easy power robbing things. I think you'll be happy with the 55 odd rwhp that it has as factory... the hit of the powerband is addictive, even though the peak is apparently quite low.

Shame you're not rolling in dough... I could sort you out an engine that would make your eyes bleed (and you'd never have to worry about another 250 2 stroke running you down. Well maybe except an RS or TZ... but you won't come across one of those on the road in NZ!)

[Fast Eddie]

Shame you're not rolling in dough... I could sort you out an engine that would make your eyes bleed (and you'd never have to worry about another 250 2 stroke running you down. Well maybe except an RS or TZ... but you won't come across one of those on the road in NZ!)

hehe, is there only one special engine and is it only avail now or do you build em? I'm usually rolling in pesos dec/january during harvest work eh.

cheer cheer bro, look forward to any more reading material from you.

[imdying]

hehe, is there only one special engine and is it only avail now or do you build em? I'm usually rolling in pesos dec/january during harvest work eh.

cheer cheer bro, look forward to any more reading material from you.

It's actually one of two; its sister made 84rwhp, but this one is a little more street orientated (although it has the ECU/combustion chambers for making the big power) so that pistons last more than a few thousand kms lol. The engine is only half the battle though... you need the carbs/ECU/tuning equipment that comes with it. On the flip side, it does ram air etc that the other does not. It hasn't been started yet, but I would be surprised if it doesn't easily make 70rwhp (derestricted RGV250/RS250 are typically about 55-58 as standard) with a pretty fat torque curve. Really depends on how many revs you're comfortable with and how you tune it. Me, I have next to no talent on a motorcycle, so I will be keeping it relatively mild and relying on the midrange to keep my fat arse moving around the track. It's road registered, but no idle is a bit of a pain. Pricey though, crank is about $3500.

[Fast Eddie]

Pricey though, crank is about $3500.

ouch!

if the crank is 3,500 I imagine the rest of bits and pieces must be add to that total engine cost nicely! Would love to see the sister engine running in a bike.. must fly!

[imdying]

if the crank is 3,500 I imagine the rest of bits and pieces must be add to that total engine cost nicely! Would love to see the sister engine running in a bike.. must fly!You and me both... I like building bikes as much as riding them, so it's like the never ending story... always something to do... What I really need is a national level rider to do the riding for me... have em go scare the shit out of the SV650 shitters on my dollar :laugh:

[Fast Eddie]

build us a 500 or 750cc smoker for the sidecar ;) I'll race the sh#t out of it

[Kickaha]

build us a 500 or 750cc smoker for the sidecar ;) I'll race the sh#t out of it

Just buy a Swiss Auto http://www.swissauto.com/d/motor/projekt_detail.jsp?ID_Display=20000D

[Fast Eddie]

Just buy a Swiss Auto http://www.swissauto.com/d/motor/projekt_detail.jsp?ID_Display=20000D

:love: 210 horsepower and only 39kg... couldn't see a price but if I have to ask then I guess.. mmm