SMIDSY versus SMIDC

[AD345]

Finally got to get out for a ride yesterday so me and a mate shot up to Parua Bay for lunch. Taking the alternate routes its a nice run of about 300 miles round trip (American speedo)

Traffic wasn't too bad, especially off SH1 and the weather held off to combine for a nice day out.

There was an interesting aspect however. We ran down SH1 from Whangarei to Wellsford on the way back for a couple of reasons, one of which was to test a theory of ours. We wanted to see if there really is a difference between visibility (SMIDSY - Sorry Mate I didn't See You) and perception (SMIDC - Sorry Mate I Don't Care).

Both of us have the same model of bike (Victory Kingpin) but my mate has the windscreen with LED strips and LED (Bright) running lights as well as panniers, top box and what have you. Mine is more stripped down - no screen, luggage or running lights and much smaller indicators.

In order to run our experiment we took turns at being the lead bike and just waited to see what would happen as we came up behind a line of cars - and there were heeeaps of lines of cars being one of the big change-over days of the hoidays.

We ran down the line to Wellsford and then stopped to compare - the evidence was pretty compelling and we both agreed on what we had observed.

My mate - lit up like a Christmas tree coming up to cars, about half pulled over to let him past and at least 2 (he reckoned 3) gave a little wobble of the "shit, where did that come from" when he went by.

Me - black leather and chrome, every car except one that I came up behind pulled over to let me past and the one exception was fairly obviously oblivious to everything short of nuclear weaponry.

I officially declare the death of SMIDSY and the birth of SMIDC.

[Subike]

I find similar reactions from drivers depending upon which of my bikes I ride in the city.
Both are the same model
one is black, modified and loud,
Cars avoid it and I can filter with no problems.
the other is std, red/white, quiet and sedate looking,
I have to be more aware of SMIDSY drivers on this bike
filtering is done with heaps more caution.
Why?
Is one a threat, the other just another bike?
SMIDC, yup agree.

[iYRe]

Was talking to a mate about this the other day. He rides a VStrom and has visibility stuff up the wazoo. I have an Intruder and wear black.
I rarely do not get seen.

He was saying that research shows that people in cars are more likely to notice a police bike (duh) or a "biker" (someone who looks like they will stop and smash their heads in if they get in the way).
So basically, because I am a big guy, on a loud "harley looking bike" dressed in black leather, they will see me before they see him in his fluro. So, all you sports/adventure/etc riders are invisible :P

Interestingly, cycling (pedal) research shows that people are more likely to notice a cyclist without a helmet and adjust their driving accordingly. For example, with helmet people assume I am protected and pass me dangerously and pull in and turn in front etc.. with no helmet they give me a wider berth and are less likely to pull in or turn in front etc..


So yeah... science says SMIDC - unless you're likely to give em a ticket or punch their face in you're invisible.

(also.. I want your bike!!! :P)

[AD345]

yeah I have suspected it for a while

It has been particularly evident in light to moderate traffic on the motorway. I do very little lane changing, most cars move out of my way as I come up to them whereas a friend of a Ducai Monster with ....more colourful clothing is zippng and zapping like a madwoman across the lanes

[AD345]

(also.. I want your bike!!! :P)

There's a few for sale on Trademe - including a black one!

Don't tempt me too much cos I'm thinking about getting a new bike as it is

[iYRe]

There's a few for sale on Trademe - including a black one!

Don't tempt me too much cos I'm thinking about getting a new bike as it is

I'm pretty safe, I'm broke :P

[pritch]

I find that I definitely get treated differently on the Triumph to the moped, although I am prepared to admit to different riding styles on each.

I think SMIDC misses the point slightly, the more succinct FU would be more appropriate to the thought processes of drivers on spotting a moped.

[rastuscat]

I personally find that more people pull over for me when I use a shotgun. The air rifle makes little difference. The shotty doesn't even have to be loaded. I learned it from Mad Max.

:devil2:

[martybabe]

I concur, the same is true in variants of car too. the Bride frequently complained that people pulled out in front of her little city car whereas when she borrowed my Bugatti veyron it was far less of an issue. In any event I think perceived threat has a lot to do with how other drivers react, or, fail to react, to you, even if it is on a subconscious level.

I call 'smypnttmsolsycfro' , Sorry mate you pose no threat to my safety or liberty so you can fuck right off.

[Gremlin]

Mates reckon I look semi official on the BMW, plus it has two spots on low when riding normally. Almost every car on the motorway moves out of the fast lane for me, and on other roads they let me through etc.

I've now started wearing a fluro vest as well, a little, to increase the official look...

Works for me :)

[Grasshopperus]

Mates reckon I look semi official on the BMW, plus it has two spots on low when riding normally. Almost every car on the motorway moves out of the fast lane for me, and on other roads they let me through etc.

I've now started wearing a fluro vest as well, a little, to increase the official look...


Just need a white helmet and you're done

[wanpo]

Mates reckon I look semi official on the BMW, plus it has two spots on low when riding normally. Almost every car on the motorway moves out of the fast lane for me, and on other roads they let me through etc.

I've now started wearing a fluro vest as well, a little, to increase the official look...

Works for me :)
You have friends?


I don't seem to have too many problems with people not seeing me, largely black bike, black leathers, helmet and visor. As soon as I put a hi-vis vest on, I've noticed the change in attitude, People cutting me off, ego at the lights, tailgating etc.

[Edbear]

I concur, the same is true in variants of car too. the Bride frequently complained that people pulled out in front of her little city car whereas when she borrowed my Bugatti veyron it was far less of an issue. In any event I think perceived threat has a lot to do with how other drivers react, or, fail to react, to you, even if it is on a subconscious level.

I call 'smypnttmsolsycfro' , Sorry mate you pose no threat to my safety or liberty so you can fuck right off.

People who drive Bugatti Veyron's rarely have issues...


I personally find that more people pull over for me when I use a shotgun. The air rifle makes little difference. The shotty doesn't even have to be loaded. I learned it from Mad Max.

:devil2:

I thought it was the disco lights...

[Jantar]

Some years ago there was a study published in England that showed that there were fewer accidents (in a study sample) involving riders wearing only black as opposed to riders in higher visibility gear.

It was a psychology study rather than a road safety study and I can longer find the links. From memory, the trick cyclists (psychologists) put it down to the brain not needing to identify everything that the eyes see, but merely to regard something in the vision range as a potential threat. Black is regarded as a bigger threat than bright colours.

[oneofsix]

Some years ago there was a study published in England that showed that there were fewer accidents (in a study sample) involving riders wearing only black as opposed to riders in higher visibility gear.

It was a psychology study rather than a road safety study and I can longer find the links. From memory, the trick cyclists (psychologists) put it down to the brain not needing to identify everything that the eyes see, but merely to regard something in the vision range as a potential threat. Black is regarded as a bigger threat than bright colours.

that makes me feel so good :clap: I have said all along that black is a primal threat and what the animal part of the human brain is conditioned to react. The pretty yellow or orange hi-viz is reactively seen as friendly and non threatening. The value of hi-viz occurs after you have been seen and thought about all be it for the briefest milli or nano second, only after the brain has been engaged does the hi-viz wearer get perceived as something to avoid. However black is reacted to as something to avoid before they even know they have seen it, especially if it "looms" at them.

[Maha]

All that is needed to solve this problem is for every bike made from here on to be painted with yellow and blue strips and all riders to wear white helmets...I am suprised this has not been thought of earlier..:niceone:

[Gremlin]

Just need a white helmet and you're done
Yeah... everyone says so. Can't bring myself to spend all that coin on an ugly white helmet. Black only thanks.


You have friends?
Yes, you're one. Congratulations. It's a life long sentence by the way. :hug:


As soon as I put a hi-vis vest on, I've noticed the change in attitude, People cutting me off, ego at the lights, tailgating etc.
Interesting. I've noticed the opposite. While out and about, it even looked like very few wanted to overtake me (when travelling the limit), and sometimes slowed down when I was behind. Can only put it down to the official look (plus one guy staring at me as he turned through a light while I was waiting on a red).

I would agree though, black is a threat, greater chance of fear rather than contempt. If you want to be colourful, you best look like a cop, because that also = fear.

[rastuscat]

It would be cool if the birth of SMIDC meant the death of SMIDSY.

It won't. Smidsys are the result of a human failure, which is explainable but not largely preventable.

Wouldn't it be nice to be rid of them. Sadly it probably isn't going to happen.

[Blackbird]

Interesting. I've noticed the opposite. While out and about, it even looked like very few wanted to overtake me (when travelling the limit), and sometimes slowed down when I was behind. Can only put it down to the official look (plus one guy staring at me as he turned through a light while I was waiting on a red).

I would agree though, black is a threat, greater chance of fear rather than contempt. If you want to be colourful, you best look like a cop, because that also = fear.

Me too :niceone: Even if they think I might be a cop for a nanosecond, it's done it's job in making me seen. If too many people wear them through legistlation or any other reason cagers will stop noticing. That would be a shame :msn-wink:

[AD345]

It would be cool if the birth of SMIDC meant the death of SMIDSY.

It won't. Smidsys are the result of a human failure, which is explainable but not largely preventable.

Wouldn't it be nice to be rid of them. Sadly it probably isn't going to happen.

It was only meant to be a change of phrase, not a change of happenstance. People will still fail to react to the presence of other vehicles and when challenged will still fall back on the SMIDSY defence

The reality is that the problem was not that they didn't "see" the other vehicle, but rather that they did not notice anything that made them care enough to change their behaviour

(preaching to the choir I know - but hey, I'm bored)

[RDJ]

I tend to wear mostly grey gear, with reflective inserts for night riding. My present ride over here in Arizona is mostly black. A couple of weeks back I picked up a genuine 7th cavalry John-Wayne-era trooper's sword in a scabbard; being carless by choice as well as circumstance, I strapped it alongside the rear saddlebag and rode back to my apartment (about 30 miles, 12 miles of that in heavy traffic on the interstate).

Never before, nor since, have I had car traffic give me such a wide berth...!

254482

:banana:

[rastuscat]

The reality is that the problem was not that they didn't "perceive" the other vehicle, but rather that they did not notice anything that made them care enough to change their behaviour

Fixed it for ya. :bleh:

You are totally on the money. Couldn't agree more.

[skippa1]

Maybe.......it is more the fact that the cagers identify all black with outlaws bikers and dont want to bring the wrath of the brotherhood down on themselves?:rolleyes:
I know when I was commercial fishing years back, black flags on dan bouys were far more visible against the background than fluro orange. Take a look some time at commercial tuna, ,ongline or seine boats, they mostly use black flags.:yes:

[rastuscat]

All that is needed to solve this problem is for every bike made from here on to be painted with yellow and blue strips and all riders to wear white helmets...I am suprised this has not been thought of earlier..:niceone:

If only. I ride one, and people still pull out in front of me.

Harumph.

[Berries]

My present ride over here in Arizona is mostly black.
Nice one. Mine is a large Asian.

[Clockwork]

Just need a white helmet and you're done


All that is needed to solve this problem is for every bike made from here on to be painted with yellow and blue strips and all riders to wear white helmets...I am suprised this has not been thought of earlier..:niceone:

Slightly off topic but... I'm sure I caught a glimpse of what I took to be a Police bike a couple of weeks ago but the rider was waring a yellow helmet, the same shade as the yellow on their cars.

[Maha]

Slightly off topic but... I'm sure I caught a glimpse of what I took to be a Police bike a couple of weeks ago but the rider was waring a yellow helmet, the same shade as the yellow on their cars.

Like this? ----->> http://www.bikebiz.com.au/products/PRE%252dORDER-Arai-Vector-Fluro-Yellow-Helmet.html

[rastuscat]

Slightly off topic but... I'm sure I caught a glimpse of what I took to be a Police bike a couple of weeks ago but the rider was waring a yellow helmet, the same shade as the yellow on their cars.

There's a rider in the Wellington bike section with a flouro helmet. Schuberth and BMW both do a flouro version. Not sure what brand he uses, but I know him, and know he has a flouro work helmet.

Just FYI.

[riffer]

Interesting observations. I too have noticed similar effects.

My previous ride for six years was a bright red Suzuki RF900R, a sporty-style bike, with standard Suzuki pipe. My new ride is a K8 Suzuki Bandit 1250S, black upon black. It's a standard, or upright bike, with a Leo Vince SBK-L pipe.

I have observed that car drivers give me a much wider berth on the new bike, and the SMIDSY events have lessened.

The Bandit presents a much taller profile with a more upright rider. On the RF I was a lot more bent over. The Bandit is also louder.

[Gremlin]

There's a rider in the Wellington bike section with a flouro helmet. Schuberth and BMW both do a flouro version. Not sure what brand he uses, but I know him, and know he has a flouro work helmet.
I saw him when I was in Wellington for work a few weeks ago. Boy did he stand out, with the bike seemingly slab sided in flouro, then the helmet as well... Felt a bit sorry for him actually.

[SPman]

I had an FZR750 many years hence, that had double filament bulbs in the front indicators that worked as orange running lights. Coming up fast behind drivers, it was a amazing how many would pull over a little.......

Following bikies down the motorway was always good for rapid progress, and I believe painting your helmet like a skull, is also very efficacious....

[RDJ]

does stand out...

254912

[iYRe]

+1 the skull painted helmet..

for my self powered velo I just bought a shirt that looks like a skeleton for that same reason - might make the occasional tintop driver take notice