Chain joining link clip coming off - twice now

[snodpete]

Had a new chain and sprockets fitted 10,000 km ago. I noted the replacement chain had a joining link/clip arrangement where before the (probably original) chain had a 'permanent' join. Upon recent return from 2000 km trip to the sunny south I was cleaning the chain and noticed the clip had gone. Managed to source another so I could go on a local ride today, checked the clip twice, the last time 80 km from home: it was fine. Had another check once home and it's gone again! I noted some wear on the joining link plate under where the clip was (see photo) - I've checked around both sprockets and along chain run etc for any obstruction: nothing. Feeling a little insecure at the prospect of losing a chain at 100 kmh :sick: Any ideas as to cause? I will get a permanent joiner fitted ASAP.
254727

[paturoa]

Your a lucky bastard!!

Was the closed end of the clip facing towards the way the chain goes?

And yes, a permanent link is the only way to go.

[snodpete]

Yep - closed end of clip forward. I do think I've been lucky, probably used up a bunch of brownie points... :blink:

[Shadows]

Was the closed end of the clip facing towards the way the chain goes?

That was the first thing that popped into my head, but it looks like it was on the right way around judging by the marks left behind.

Another potential cause could be that the sprockets aren't aligned very well.

[nzspokes]

My understanding is you only use joiners on bikes under 300cc.

[Transalper]

pft! I use what ever comes with the chain, I have no real preference other than finding clip links easier to install.
I've used clips on everything from XR200's to the CBR1000F.
Only ever lost one clip but the link stayed put so I replaced the clip and glued it on.
Since then when I have a clip link to use I tweak the side plate back out against the clip once it's all together to help keep the clip tight and also throw a dab of RTV on to help retain the clip against any unknowns as i still don't know what made the one disappear all those years ago.

When using a rivit link I tend to get the pros with the good tools to install it for me as I've found them tricky little buggers to get right.

[Mental Trousers]

I've seen link clips lock wired on. Seemed to work fine cos it never came off. That was on a 600 race bike too.

[paturoa]

Only ever lost one clip ..

I've never lost one.

[Taz]

Find what is causing the rub marks on the sprocket and chain.

[Flip]

I would suggest looking at the pictures that the clip was faulty. It has worn the plating off the chain side plate in two opposite corners this suggests to me that the clip was twisted and not sitting flat.

Rivet links are heaps better.

[Owl]

Is the link sealing correctly.......any signs of rust oozing etc? Grab the link and see if you can twist side to side. If so, the link pins and chain bushings will be flogged out.

I've recently had that issue with my VM chain, where one link has effectively destroyed my chain. New chain/sprocket kit on order.

[sugilite]

I've seen clips come off when rolling a bike backwards, the bike had tight chain/tyre clearances.

[snodpete]

Thanks for the ideas, and food for thought. I'm hoping to get a riveted link fitted this afternoon. Incidentally there's no sign of movement or alignment issues, join link seems pretty snug to me (which helped avoid disaster I guess!) - mind you I'm not a professional, we'll see what he who passes for a professional in these parts has to say later today...

[F5 Dave]

Thank you for this post. It has just reminded me that a mate still has my chain riviting tool. Sort of thing that will get put in a corner & he'll forget about it & I'll reach for it & there it will be gone.

[DEATH_INC.]

I've seen clips come off when rolling a bike backwards, the bike had tight chain/tyre clearances.
Yup, the 630 on the turbo used to do it all the time...
I run a clip on the 10, and I ran one on the gixxer, no probs. But I put a loop of safety wire on 'em...just in case.

[gatch]

A dab of silicon and a loop of lockwire..

Rivet links be damned.

[F5 Dave]

which isn't what the manufacturers recommend. they are a bit stuck with demand to provide split links as not many people have kits to press.

[quickbuck]

which isn't what the manufacturers recommend. they are a bit stuck with demand to provide split links as not many people have kits to press.
Really?
A hammer and a Dolly make perfectly acceptable riviting tools....
Mind, not too many people have a dolly floating in the toolbox, but it is really just a block of steel.

I think the split link demand is because we like to take the chains of and give them a good clean from time to time.

[F5 Dave]

Really?
A hammer and a Dolly make perfectly acceptable riviting tools....
Mind, not too many people have a dolly floating in the toolbox, but it is really just a block of steel.

I think the split link demand is because we like to take the chains of and give them a good clean from time to time.

I was meaning that the manufacturers recomend rivet links on mid to bigger bikes.

They also recomend using the correct tool & DID in particular warn against using impact methods, but heck do what you like, they probably don't know what they are talking about.

[gatch]

I was meaning that the manufacturers recomend rivet links on mid to bigger bikes.

They also recomend using the correct tool & DID in particular warn against using impact methods, but heck do what you like, they probably don't know what they are talking about.

Manufacturers recommend a lot of clever things. In a lot of cases solely as a disclaimer against poor workmanship.

Honda recommends I use an endless chain on my 60hp vfr. I am supposed to remove the swingarm to fit the chain.

[F5 Dave]

Well that's one way. You could fit a rivet of course:shifty:

[warewolf]

pft! I use what ever comes with the chain, I have no real preference other than finding clip links easier to install.
I've used clips on everything from XR200's to the CBR1000F.
Only ever lost one clip but the link stayed put so I replaced the clip and glued it on.
Since then when I have a clip link to use I tweak the side plate back out against the clip once it's all together to help keep the clip tight and also throw a dab of RTV on to help retain the clip against any unknowns as i still don't know what made the one disappear all those years ago.This. Never had a problem with clips on the 640A and it gets thoroughly used as its makers intended. At scrutineering for the Nelson Port races we insisted on a dab of RTV on all clip links - and there were lots across all capacities.

However... Pete: losing two in a short space of time combined with the dodgy-looking wear marks, I'd second the notion that something is not aligned correctly.

[quickbuck]

I was meaning that the manufacturers recomend rivet links on mid to bigger bikes.

They also recomend using the correct tool & DID in particular warn against using impact methods, but heck do what you like, they probably don't know what they are talking about.

Shit, I would hate to fly in an aircraft where all the rivits are impacted in then..... Squeeze riviting is the least prefered method.... I agree, partly because you usually can't get to the other side, however by squeezing there is more likelyhood of putting the rivit in sheer, and in a chain, where that is the load, then I would be more concerned.

I think gatch is right, it is more about garding against shoddy workmanship, and the fact DID get to sell their special tool.

[gatch]

Well that's one way. You could fit a rivet of course:shifty:

Manufacturer doesn't recommend it though..


Shit, I would hate to fly in an aircraft where all the rivits are impacted in then..... Squeeze riviting is the least prefered method.... I agree, partly because you usually can't get to the other side, however by squeezing there is more likelyhood of putting the rivit in sheer, and in a chain, where that is the load, then I would be more concerned.

I think gatch is right, it is more about garding against shoddy workmanship, and the fact DID get to sell their special tool.

Air hammered even. Possibly the noisiest tool I have ever used.

[F5 Dave]

So what are plane rivets made of?

[Sable]

If your clips are coming off then you're doing something wrong.

[husaberg]

A dab of silicon and a loop of lockwire..

Rivet links be damned.
Do the same as on a MX bike it is a bit hard to do the gearing with a rivet link and impossible to change the guide on the KTM
Never used the lock wire though not sure how too?

I never had one fail -----fishy swims upstream, surprising how many people get it the wrong way.

Until a couple of race meeting a go i had never had one fail.

But in hindsight i never followed my own rules firstly i had run out of silicone secondly i had been in a hurry prepping the bike and in my haste the clip had pinged off into the dark corner of the shed so i grabbed an old one of another brand of chain (420 inside of 415 not that probably matered as i only used the clip)and chucked it on.
On closer inspection the chain had also been rubbing on the outside of the block so what flipped it off?
probably a combination of all my f ups and poor prep.
My kid was pissed so was my misses.
The silicone also makes it easier to find.
BTW I normally have a couple of chains dummied up with the corresponding sprockets to facilitate fast stress free gearing changes without frustration.

[F5 Dave]

Tell your kid & your missus- if they want to get pissy, they can work on the sodding things

[husaberg]

Tell your kid & your missus- if they want to get pissy, they can work on the sodding things
I will tell the kid. You can tell my misses.:chase:
Hows that fair nah my crap prep was all my own fault really.
That's not to say, i wouldn't blame someone else if I could<_<

[haydes55]

My understanding is you only use joiners on bikes under 300cc.

Everyone at speedway runs joiners on 500cc methanol bikes. full throttle then dumping the clutch and it survives, keep the chain oiled, aligned and free from hitting anything. Chains are only thrown from 1)dodgy link which wouldn't survive long 2)poorly maintained, stretched and not adjusted, not oiled, seizing links etc 3)bent or not aligned sprockets.

If you keep throwing joiners from a chain I would suggest a new chain. The chain could have a kink in it.

Being lazy you could just go for a 20 min ride, then feel how hot your chain is, should be warm, if it's hot then it isn't healthy.

[snodpete]

Thanks for the interesting contributions and comments on my OP question - have a newly riveted join link now, chain alignment / interference checked: no issues. The second clip (that I fitted) was probably not seated exactly right - at least that's the explanation I'm sticking with for now :confused:

[Brian d marge]

So what are plane rivets made of?

nothing exciting

Stephen

[F5 Dave]

My point was the material used & I doubted they would use dissimilar metals on the rivets to the planes, so I'm guessing ally not ferrous.

[gatch]

Depends on the application. From what I remember, (csk and dome head) solid ali rivets for most frame/former and skin joints.

The pop rivet with a steel ? insert is used as well, though I can't remember where.