Bye bye Holden?

[nudemetalz]

"....The closure of Holden's Australian operations is one option being considered by US parent company General Motors, South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill said after meetings in Detroit overnight.Mr Weatherill, Federal Manufacturing Minister Kim Carr and Holden managing director Mike Devereux held talks with GM chief executive Dan Akerson in America's "motor city".
The Premier says while he strongly urged GM not to shut down its Australian arm, he conceded the option was one of several being considered by the company.
"It's a possible scenario, and of course we're doing everything we can to resist that," he said.
"But the truth is that car making is a global industry, so the future for Holden in South Australia and importantly the components suppliers in South Australia will involve us making sure that we've got a secure place in that global industry.........................."



http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/12541748/gm-considering-holden-shut-down-weatherill/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/12541748/gm-considering-holden-shut-down-weatherill/)

interesting.......

Thanks China...:facepalm:

[riffer]

If it's a wage bill problem they could always build them here.

Seriously though, the writings been on the cards for a while for Holdens, and the massively high Australan Dollar and the Aussie wages aren't the only reasons for it, although they really don't help.

[avgas]

Daewoo have been "benchtesting" a commodore assembly line for about 4 years now.
Notice also that VDO-Dayton in S.Australia was sold to Continental many moons ago. The plant was then downscaled.

[98tls]

Aussie government will give them a hand out methinks.Fords just announced there staying in Aus until at least 2016.

[p.dath]

I wouldn't like to have either Holden or Ford manufacturing (or assembly) moved from Australia. I hope both companies can stay ... even if they share facilities.

To me, part of the value of both brands is not just the sum of their parts, but that they come from this part of the world.

[blackdog]

Who cares they are cars.

[mashman]

If it's a wage bill problem they could always build them here.


They could always start this a little earlier than planned (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/nov/10/maldives-climate-change) as these guys don't exactly get paid a fortune.

[neels]

No more low volume dinosaurs and rebadged daewoos

Not a great loss to the world.

[Hitcher]

The loser here will be the Australian taxpayer, if State and Federal politicians have gone to Detroit to seriously suck GM dick.

The same reasons that Australia should get out of vehicle assembly are just a slightly larger degree of scale than used to apply here in New Zealand. Before the CKD plants here were disestablished, every job in the auto assembly industry here cost the taxpayer about $275,000, if all of the import duties, taxpayer funded subsidies and other Government support measures were included. What's happened since? The quality and variety of vehicle models has improved, and (in real dollar terms) the price has come down, in addition to lower costs to taxpayers. Sounds like a reasonable outcome to me.

[98tls]

No more low volume dinosaurs and rebadged daewoos

Not a great loss to the world.

Explain,in detail if you will.

[98tls]

The loser here will be the Australian taxpayer, if State and Federal politicians have gone to Detroit to seriously suck GM dick.

The same reasons that Australia should get out of vehicle assembly are just a slightly larger degree of scale than used to apply here in New Zealand. Before the CKD plants here were disestablished, every job in the auto assembly industry here cost the taxpayer about $275,000, if all of the import duties, taxpayer funded subsidies and other Government support measures were included. What's happened since? The quality and variety of vehicle models has improved, and (in real dollar terms) the price has come down, in addition to lower costs to taxpayers. Sounds like a reasonable outcome to me.

The qualitys only improved since the government had the sense to limit the age of imports,i was selling Toyotas at a dealership in Wellington when the imports started in numbers,the things were nothing but shite,hate to think how many retired happily after a couple of years of doing nothing but change cv joints in fucked Preludes.Still gives me the shivers remembering a conversation with an old fella i had sold a GLXI Cressida to a few years earlier for huge $ new when he wanted to trade it on a new one.:wacko:

[cave weta]

Three years ago Chevrolet USA discontinued the RWD V8/ 6cyl floorpan.
This is the trickledown-
There will be nothing to build so why keep the factory and the workforce when all the new cars are built by daewoo

[scumdog]

Three years ago Chevrolet USA discontinued the RWD V8/ 6cyl floorpan.
This is the trickledown-
There will be nothing to build so why keep the factory and the workforce when all the new cars are built by daewoo

And after that we'll be stuck with large front-wheel drive cars with a turning circle only marginally smaller than that of the Queen Mary doing a U-turn.:pinch:

[98tls]

And after that we'll be stuck with large front-wheel drive cars with a turning circle only marginally smaller than that of the Queen Mary doing a U-turn.:pinch:

With 4 cylinders,Lucky us.

[nosebleed]

*snip*...Thanks China...:facepalm:...*snip*

Sorry, I don't see the correlation.

Is this the China that is (based on a 2yr old 20/20 article) consuming 1/3 of the world's steel which is huge basis for Australia's economy, and the same China to which the US is a major debtor?

[nosebleed]

And after that we'll be stuck with large front-wheel drive cars with a turning circle only marginally smaller than that of the Queen Mary doing a U-turn.:pinch:

Forgot about youse, be moving to M5 Beemers all round?

[avgas]

Three years ago Chevrolet USA discontinued the RWD V8/ 6cyl floorpan.
This is the trickledown-
There will be nothing to build so why keep the factory and the workforce when all the new cars are built by daewoo
They still have it. Just like BMW, Audi............but they are becoming rare.
Especially with V6 Turbo's giving the same specs.

I'm still pissed most manufacturers have moved to fwd. However new concepts coming out via Chevy, Toyota, Subaru and Hyundai show a little RWD promise.

[Woodman]

whats wrong with front wheel drive?

[avgas]

No more low volume dinosaurs and rebadged daewoos
They aren't going anywhere.
They just won't be made in Aus.
I was fortunate enough to drive the same car in 3 countries: Holden Viva (Aus/NZ), Chevy Forenza (US), Buick Excelle (China). Sad to say the Holden one was the pick of the lot. It had better suspension, better stereo and alloys.
The Chevy had the gruntier motor (which ironically was a holden 2L:eek5:) but I didn't notice it over the 1.8L.

[Woodman]

They aren't going anywhere.
They just won't be made in Aus.
I was fortunate enough to drive the same car in 3 countries: Holden Viva (Aus/NZ), Chevy Forenza (US), Buick Excelle (China). Sad to say the Holden one was the pick of the lot. It had better suspension, better stereo and alloys.
The Chevy had the gruntier motor (which ironically was a holden 2L:eek5:) but I didn't notice it over the 1.8L.

Had the misfortune of driving a Viva a few weeks back and it was friggen terrible. Possibly the worst car I have ever driven. It has done a few ks but bloody hell it was bad.

[scumdog]

whats wrong with front wheel drive?

Everything....<_<

[SMOKEU]

whats wrong with front wheel drive?

RWD is more fun because they do mean drifties.

[Virago]

I see Holden has been thrown a taxpayer lifeline:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/13236688/gm-holden-gets-287-million-australian-govt-handout/

I wonder if Ford will also seek a handout for the redevelopment of their aging Falcon platform?

[steve_t]

I see Holden has been thrown a taxpayer lifeline:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/13236688/gm-holden-gets-287-million-australian-govt-handout/

I wonder if Ford will also seek a handout for the redevelopment of their aging Falcon platform?

Ford Australia has already been granted a '$34m Federal Government contribution' and a Victorian State taxpayer lifeline (not sure how much) as part of their $103m plant upgrade.

[Crasherfromwayback]

whats wrong with front wheel drive?

Everything once you've driven a big horse powered rear wheel drive!

[Swoop]

whats wrong with front wheel drive?
The builders put the engine in the wrong way.
East-West engines cause cancer.

[5150]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/6620080/Holden-gets-A-275m-govt-investment

[Crasherfromwayback]

The builders put the engine in the wrong way.
East-West engines cause cancer.

And doodle droop.

[SPman]

And after that we'll be stuck with large front-wheel drive cars with a turning circle only marginally smaller than that of the Queen Mary doing a U-turn.:pinch:
You thinking Oldsmobile Toronadoes.........fwd has progressed a wee bit since then.......;)

[Woodman]

commodores and falcons are dinosaurs, why spend billions backing up a product that really shouldn't be on the market anymore.

[Crasherfromwayback]

commodores and falcons are dinosaurs, why spend billions backing up a product that really shouldn't be on the market anymore.

I beg to differ. I love having a rear wheel drive 5.7L SS Ute to haul my dirtbikes round with. Nothing is more fun to drive.

[Woodman]

I beg to differ. I love having a rear wheel drive 5.7L SS Ute to haul my dirtbikes round with. Nothing is more fun to drive.

Don't disagree with you but the world has moved on and anyway from what I hear the latest Commodore v8's will have trouble passing the NZ emission tests for new cars. Petrol prices are also an issue, and yes I know that if you idle along in top gear at 100km/h then a v8 fuel consumption is ok, but then if you gonna do that then why buy one.

[steve_t]

Don't disagree with you but the world has moved on and anyway from what I hear the latest Commodore v8's will have trouble passing the NZ emission tests for new cars. Petrol prices are also an issue, and yes I know that if you idle along in top gear at 100km/h then a v8 fuel consumption is ok, but then if you gonna do that then why buy one.

Time to get a Prius :corn:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don't disagree with you but the world has moved on and anyway from what I hear the latest Commodore v8's will have trouble passing the NZ emission tests for new cars. Petrol prices are also an issue, and yes I know that if you idle along in top gear at 100km/h then a v8 fuel consumption is ok, but then if you gonna do that then why buy one.

Petrol prices don't really worry me. I walk to work every day and only use the ute when it's needed. They're just nice and lazy...plenty of power to pass whatever the fuck is in the way, and as roomy/comfortable as a sporty sedan to drive for long distances.

[JimO]

Still gives me the shivers remembering a conversation with an old fella i had sold a GLXI Cressida to a few years earlier for huge $ new when he wanted to trade it on a new one.:wacko:


i remember the conversation where the salesman wanted me to take a 30k haircut on my hilux

[Indiana_Jones]

Hmmmm government hand/bailout?

where have I seen this before?...

oh yeah lol

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5303/5849707469_f7a8231792_z.jpg

-Indy

[slowpoke]

whats wrong with front wheel drive?

You've obviously never tried towing anything up a dirt or wet tarmac hill. Front wheel drive cars have trouble getting up my 400m gravel driveway by themselves and have absolutely no hope with a trailer.


I beg to differ. I love having a rear wheel drive 5.7L SS Ute to haul my dirtbikes round with. Nothing is more fun to drive.

Amen brother!


Don't disagree with you but the world has moved on and anyway from what I hear the latest Commodore v8's will have trouble passing the NZ emission tests for new cars. Petrol prices are also an issue, and yes I know that if you idle along in top gear at 100km/h then a v8 fuel consumption is ok, but then if you gonna do that then why buy one.

I think you are hearing bullshit. If Corvettes/Mustangs/Camaro's etc with the same engines as their Aussie counterparts can pass the ultra strict California emissions reg's then NZ emissions tests are a piece of wee's.

The world has moved on from what? Wanting to tow their boat/caravan/trailer? Wanting effortless power? Wanting something that sounds good? Wanting to emulate their V8 Supercar heroes? Wanting cheap performance? Wanting plenty of room for a family? Wanting decent handling dymanics? I don't think so.

I towed my large (4.5m long by 2.7m tall) bike trailer from Invercargill to Picton in one stint after the Teretonga NZSBK round. It was a bloody long day and never in my life have I been so glad to have 450hp and 700Nm at my disposal. No stress, no can I/can't I overtaking or worrying about holding up traffic, just instant grunt and effortless cruising even with a decent load. Absolutely the right tool for the job (car, not me).

I'm no big Commodore/Falcon fan but having been there and done that there's not a helluva lot to compare value-for-money-wise when looking at alternatives.

[scumdog]

Petrol prices don't really worry me. I walk to work every day and only use the ute when it's needed. They're just nice and lazy...plenty of power to pass whatever the fuck is in the way, and as roomy/comfortable as a sporty sedan to drive for long distances.

My take on it too.

And you can shove front-wheel drives where the sun don't shine...

[Crasherfromwayback]

You've obviously never tried towing anything up a dirt or wet tarmac hill. Front wheel drive cars have trouble getting up my 400m gravel driveway by themselves and have absolutely no hope with a trailer.

.

Tell me about it! A mate and I got stuck over in Long Gully Station after a trail ride when his poxy FWD car couldn't get us up the hill on the way out.

[avgas]

Had the misfortune of driving a Viva a few weeks back and it was friggen terrible. Possibly the worst car I have ever driven. It has done a few ks but bloody hell it was bad.
My words of advice would be to avoid the following then:
Ford Telstar
Ford Lazer
Anything with the word morris in it
Mitsubishi Mirage of any year
Toyota Starlet of any year
Ford Focus Manual

and probably countless more I have forgotten to mention. Never said the Viva was high on the list......but the holden one seemed the best of the 3 countries. Mate has also mentioned that the Holden Monaro drove better than the GTO.

The Buick equivelent of the Viva was quite horrible though. So probably should be in that list somewhere. But then again what do you expect in China. Even the Euro's over there are shit.

While we are on the note of RWD cars. Anyone else pissed off that Hyundai don't sell any of there RWD cars here? Because all the FWD cars are shit. Here is hoping Toyota/Subaru and Kia get their RWD cars here soon. Sucks not having any sub-3.5L RWD cars.

[avgas]

My take on it too.

And you can shove front-wheel drives where the sun don't shine...
Dunedin?????????????

[Scuba_Steve]

It would be nice if Holden went under, for them to take the bad drivers with them.
Shame it doesn't work like that. :wait:

[Swoop]

Time to get a Prius :corn:
The "clayton's" green car.
Those pieces of crap do not even meet china's criteria for a "green" car.

[scumdog]

The "clayton's" green car.
Those pieces of crap do not even meet china's criteria for a "green" car.

And create a 'shitload' (tm) of pollution making them....

[Sensei]

Got my Tricked out HSV so not too worryed

[Woodman]

My words of advice would be to avoid the following then:
Ford Telstar
Ford Lazer
Anything with the word morris in it
Mitsubishi Mirage of any year
Toyota Starlet of any year
Ford Focus Manual

and probably countless more I have forgotten to mention. Never said the Viva was high on the list......but the holden one seemed the best of the 3 countries. Mate has also mentioned that the Holden Monaro drove better than the GTO.

The Buick equivelent of the Viva was quite horrible though. So probably should be in that list somewhere. But then again what do you expect in China. Even the Euro's over there are shit.

While we are on the note of RWD cars. Anyone else pissed off that Hyundai don't sell any of there RWD cars here? Because all the FWD cars are shit. Here is hoping Toyota/Subaru and Kia get their RWD cars here soon. Sucks not having any sub-3.5L RWD cars.

I done about 350.000kms in a couple of the first gen manual focusses and they were ok, if you are the driver. Rear passengers especially do it very hard, uncomfy as all hell and very very road noisy. The road noise in the front wasn't much chop either but not as bad as the rear. very good handling car though and a lot of fun on twisty roads. The Topgear guys reckon they are a good drivers car too.
But the viva omg

[ellipsis]

...i've been driving japanese holdens for years now..just after i gave up on the real thing...fairly safe sticking with them and riding a Honda...there probably wont be a call for disappointment i'd say...

[scumdog]

...i've been driving japanese holdens for years now..just after i gave up on the real thing...fairly safe sticking with them and riding a Honda...there probably wont be a call for disappointment i'd say...

Of course dying of boredom is always a possibilty...:pinch:

[ellipsis]

Of course dying of boredom is always a possibilty...:pinch:


...my boredom threshold is yet to be tested...towing my bikes to a race meeting behind a '57 Customline gives my want buttons a tickle, too far to the left for me...getting to the race track is far more important...four wheels=work/tool...and our old Leadwing still gives me the boredom elixir when the boxes are draggin on the tarmac..she seems to want to ride her own bike thesedays...I've had a swag of HJ, HG,HQ and HR's ...they were vehicles of note..post that the rest is history and bullshit...

[Crasherfromwayback]

...I've had a swag of HJ, HG,HQ and HR's ...they were vehicles of note..post that the rest is history and bullshit...

WB was the best pre Commodore Holden I've had. Had three WB utes...all awesome. And I've had everything from EH onwards.

[Coldrider]

The four cylinder falcondoors can at least beat a cane toad, just one mind you.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/motoring/6859951/Ford-stands-by-gruesome-ad-campaign