Chance of a lifetime: YOU can decide on the message that will unite all bikers

[Conquiztador]

We are all.... sorry: Many of us are unhappy re where the gumment is taking bikers. Currently there is discussion about compulsory Hi-Viz Vests, all bikes day glow colour, white helmets, restriction of hp's, only bike allowed is a Honda... Well no, it is not that bad. But be assured that we are looking at more regulations to save our selves from our selves.

Many of us want things to stay like they are and the focus being put on training instead of draconian regulations. To make this happen we need to unite, to show a common front, to make a noise that can be heard and that is a big enough sound so the ones who decide will think twice before they put more shit in fron of us.

The problem is that we can agree on very little and so the saying: "United we stand, devided we fall" has never been more true.

If YOU had to unite all bikers in this country of the long white cloud, what would be the message you would use to get all to agree and support come hell or high water?

Give me your best shot, and who knows, you might just solve what we have been battling with for a few years now.

[SMOKEU]

Ride till I die, mother f*****s!

[James Deuce]

Buy a car!

[Motu]

Stop the blame game and accept where the real fault lies.

[mashman]

Free beer and titties at the beehive <insert date>... make a few speeches and ride away again feeling better that you turned up, even if it was only for free beer and titties.

[Conquiztador]

U guys are not helping...

[PirateJafa]

Redline to the deadline!

[\m/]

Ride till I die, mother f*****s!
Pretty much this.

[MaxCannon]

How About "Government, leave us the fuck alone"

[SMOKEU]

Redline to the deadline!

+1 to this.

[TrentNz]

Ride now think later :motu:

[Brett]

Wheelies are neither big nor clever. But almost any bike can do one! (JK)

[Conquiztador]

I thank you all for your contributions sofar. Said that, to go as a group of 100,000 bikers to the beehive to delievr the message of "Redline to deadline" (Or any similar ones) might not achieve what I was aiming for. But, it would hit the news...and as the saying goes: "Any publicity is good publicity..."

[SMOKEU]

Do a wheelie.

[Conquiztador]

Perhaps all the ones with usable ideas are asleep... I come back in the morning...:yes:

[blue rider]

Day Glow Day Glow

[Conquiztador]

Day Glow Day Glow

OK... back to the drawing board I think...:facepalm:

[Voltaire]

Arrange for Nick Smith to be put in stocks outside the beehive:innocent: and free fruit and veges to be made available.....

[insomnia01]

" Bikers rights together we shall Unite "

[HenryDorsetCase]

YOU CAN HAVE MY BIKE KEYS WHEN YOU TAKE THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD HAND!

Lets get Charlton Heston to front the campaign.

or

AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY

[DrunkenMistake]

Do a skid bro.



Nah just shitting,

Are you talking about a message on a picket like protesters?
The whole ACC thing is a shambles but you will be a fool to think its going to go back to the way it was,
I can see their reasons for charging ACC levies, and I think as Motorcyclists we should concentrate, not on removing these said levies, but coming to a compromise where they are tolerable, for example,;

If you put a years rego on your bike, and remain claim free for that entire year, a certain percentage should be credited towards your next rego, bringing the price of the next one down, and for that to continue untill you reach a certain point, where you are still paying a levy but only a fraction of the original amount, when you make an ACC claim that is bike related, you start from scratch.

Obviously that is saying 'we accept we are at fault' which we know isn't the case, but its just a compromise that could work
The next way and the most obvious way would be to,

Bring motorcycle levies down, and out cage levies up, obviously there are more cages on the roads with Rego than bikes, so you share the levies out among all road users who already pay such levies in their rego, it would make the levies alot lower, and shared out by everybody
When it comes down to it, this entire ACC problem, is yet to be solved, its yet to make any headway, all we seem to do is cry about it, but nothing really seems to get done, Im not saying I can do better,
But im sure as a country wide community we could do better.

[avgas]

We will fight you on the beaches, and we will fight you in the trenches. Keep fucking with us and we will kick you off the benches.

[Paul in NZ]

Right to Ride....

[Fast Eddie]

We will fight you on the beaches, and we will fight you in the trenches. Keep fucking with us and we will kick you off the benches.

haha this ones a keeper. Damn politicians.

How about "Hands off my keys, Key"

"Fingers out of my fun, Peter Dunne"

and so on..

[MSTRS]

I really doubt that there is anything that will unite bikers. Too many different things that are important to individuals. It is only when something is proposed that has a direct and meaningful effect on every one of us that we will stand up and fight. Trouble is, almost everything that affects us as riders is foisted on us a little bit at a time, in the guise of improving our safety. Most bikers just shrug and carry on, saying things like "About time" or "I can live with that" or "Pfft! They'll have to catch me first". In theory, the biker spirit is no different to our kin in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc BUT look at the mortality rate over the years. Yes, there are a number of reasons why it is 'low' compared to 30 years ago, but there is no denying that we are at an all-time low for biker deaths and that is in part due to 'safety initiatives' and rider attitudes.

The big issues (and the backlash) come up about 10 yearly intervals. And they've always been about ACC...shall we get prepared for 2019?

[Katman]

This thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125845-The-ACC-saga-a-new-approach. actually had some potentially productive dialogue going.

(Not sure at which page it started turning to shit - but you can rest assured it probably did).

[sugilite]

Freedom to ride? Politicians want you and your mates in a cage. Fight for your freedom now, or lose it forever.

[avgas]

I actually quite like the way things are gong.:blink:

Hear me out. My bike has no rego. When I ride now I get a little buzz. The same kind of buzz I used to get when I was a youngin on my L plates, taking the misses for a blat on the GB400. I was illegal.
While the cars I own are all Rego'd. The bike will stay unrego'd (unless the ACC thing changes). I have southern cross healthcare. So they can patch me up for being a rebel.
I actually think this might bring more of the "biker spirit" out in the long run. The softcocks either won't be able to afford the ACC levies, or will be scared off by B.S. marketing. Leave only us normal folk 'scum' left for the cops the chase.
Only thing I will have to watch will be those damn demerit points again. Will be a case of getting to 95. Then locking the bike up for a year and doing it all again.
So if your serious about going head to head with ACC/govt. Stop filling their coffers with biker money. Live a little and stop being soft cocks.
Exciting times ahead.

[Katman]

I actually quite like the way things are gong.:blink:

Hear me out. My bike has no rego. When I ride now I get a little buzz. The same kind of buzz I used to get when I was a youngin on my L plates, taking the misses for a blat on the GB400. I was illegal.
While the cars I own are all Rego'd. The bike will stay unrego'd (unless the ACC thing changes). I have southern cross healthcare. So they can patch me up for being a rebel.
I actually think this might bring more of the "biker spirit" out in the long run. The softcocks either won't be able to afford the ACC levies, or will be scared off by B.S. marketing. Leave only us normal folk 'scum' left for the cops the chase.
Only thing I will have to watch will be those damn demerit points again. Will be a case of getting to 95. Then locking the bike up for a year and doing it all again.
So if your serious about going head to head with ACC/govt. Stop filling their coffers with biker money. Live a little and stop being soft cocks.
Exciting times ahead.

The trouble with that approach is that while it may be fun for the moment but it's certainly not going to do the future of Motorcycling any favours.

There's a disturbing number of motorcyclists who can't see past their own little world.

[Swoop]

Message to government is the same as always "Get fucked!".

Whenever I pass Wellington's Circular Wind Tunnel I always stop in front of parliament and raise the bird in salute to the fine individuals contained within. Doesn't matter if I'm wearing a suit or in leathers.

[carver]

U guys are not helping...

most bins wins

[Trade_nancy]

I actually quite like the way things are gong.:blink:

Hear me out. My bike has no rego. When I ride now I get a little buzz. The same kind of buzz I used to get when I was a youngin on my L plates, taking the misses for a blat on the GB400. I was illegal.
While the cars I own are all Rego'd. The bike will stay unrego'd (unless the ACC thing changes). I have southern cross healthcare. So they can patch me up for being a rebel.
I actually think this might bring more of the "biker spirit" out in the long run. The softcocks either won't be able to afford the ACC levies, or will be scared off by B.S. marketing. Leave only us normal folk 'scum' left for the cops the chase.
Only thing I will have to watch will be those damn demerit points again. Will be a case of getting to 95. Then locking the bike up for a year and doing it all again.
So if your serious about going head to head with ACC/govt. Stop filling their coffers with biker money. Live a little and stop being soft cocks.
Exciting times ahead.

Tend to agree with you AVGAS. Although i do pay rego on my main ride, I own a second bike and ride that sans rego as it is an old CB750 - which still falls inside the 40 year cutoff for classic - so would cost me another $500+ smackers. So I ride the Honda maybe 5-10 times in a year vs evey day for my "legal" bike. It just makes no sense to pay all over for such a case and I agree - i do get a certain sense of satisfaction and schoolboy woody for riding "out of school rules".

It is my thought that ACC will not be much if indeed any further ahead financially for having hiked up the bike levies...given that a significant percentage of owners have opted to take the suspended option..it may be they are collecting LESS! I have been told by someone who works there that the figure was as high as 60-70% of bikes were under some form of suspended rego!

As to new measures to force us into hi-viz, white helmets etc....it would piss me off for sure...but I suspect I would comply with the hi-viz aspect as I do own and wear a yellow jacket sometimes anyway and see that has potential for accident prevention...I would also vote that bike manufacturers cease painting bikes black, grey and silver - as apart from being less visible I find them totally boring. My black helmet and strips of hi-viz relective red tape stuck on the back,..but if they want to make a white helmet available at a heavily discounted price to afford better safety - hey I'd go for that too.

[skippa1]

Take the GST off fruit and veges:blink: we will be healthier and have better ideas:eek:

[HappyGOriding]

I think its a bit of wishful thinking on uniting bikers when those groups/persons who think themselves motorcycle advocates cant even agree amongst themselves.
As for hi viz made compulsory what a joke!! Focus on rider inexperience and wearing protective clothing would be a wiser investment. Making hi viz compulsory would just prove (to me)that the government dont want to know about it if it cant be fixed with a band aid.

[Paul in NZ]

One way to broaden the appeal might be a 'Less Government' approach....

Less Nanny more Manny......

[Flip]

To all those people who voted National, thanks a heap!

You deserve what you get.

[avgas]

The trouble with that approach is that while it may be fun for the moment but it's certainly not going to do the future of Motorcycling any favours.
There's a disturbing number of motorcyclists who can't see past their own little world.
Think long and hard about this. The future of motorcycling?
The future was always fucked for motorcycles - whether you were a youngin on an RD350 in the 70's, GPZ rider in the 80's, GSXR rider in the 90's or now. Motorcyclists will never be considered the saviors of mankind, or be put in the same prestige as truck drivers or ambulance drivers.
Have always been "temporary citizens", "rebels"........in general road scum.

Unless we start saving kittens from trees and pull people from burning buildings that is not likely to change.

While I agree with all your past statement about rider control of his own circumstance.......we will have to agree to disagree on your thoughts that we can change a worldwide perception that motorbikes are dangerous.
Motorbikes are like hot air balloons. Not required for transport (anymore), and you can prove all your life they are safe only to have one accident destroy that reputation over night.

[avgas]

To all those people who voted National, thanks a heap!
You deserve what you get.
Now now, under MMP all those who voted can take a slice of that blame.

[Katman]

Think long and hard about this. The future of motorcycling?
The future was always fucked for motorcycles - whether you were a youngin on an RD350 in the 70's, GPZ rider in the 80's, GSXR rider in the 90's or now. Motorcyclists will never be considered the saviors of mankind, or be put in the same prestige as truck drivers or ambulance drivers.
Have always been "temporary citizens", "rebels"........in general road scum.

Unless we start saving kittens from trees and pull people from burning buildings that is not likely to change.



Good for you. One day you'll be able to pat yourself on the back and sit back and tell your kids (or grandkids) "Motorcycles? Yeah, I remember them. I was part of the process that fucked that up for you."

[willytheekid]

I think its a bit of wishful thinking on uniting bikers when those groups/persons who think themselves motorcycle advocates cant even agree amongst themselves.


Totally agree!:niceone:, I find these "advocates" are usually just rich "suit's" that ride on sundays and feel they know whats best for all of us...got sick of there self promotion, lack of direction & in-fighting years ago.
If you want to unit bikers...lose these rich fat cats who think they are gods gift to NZ biking and have "self appointed" themselves as our so called "advocates".

(I do however note the great work of some of these groups...sometimes! --bronze toy run etc etc)

Our first move should be ensuring fair media coverage...as they have repeatedly screwed us and twisted any attempt at delivering a clear message....with out fair media coverage we are just pissing into the wind.

[Conquiztador]

OK, so we have some dialogue going. If you look around KB you will find a bunch of threads discussing very similar issues with very much the same outcomes. I realise that as an public forum I have very little power to direct where this (or any) thread will go. But my hope was to see if there was one issue, one message, one cause that many of us who ride bikes, no matter what walks of life we are from, could agree on and push for.

Here, I give you an example: When many of us (approx 9,000) rode to the beehive on the Bikeoi to protest against the increase in the ACC levies we all agreed that the increase was unfair and too much. But after that when we wanted to keep it all going it fell flat for many reasons, but one main part was that we could not agree if we liked ACC as it was, if it should be changed, taken back to how it was in the past, if it should be privatised etc. This was expected, as even if we all like to ride bikes we often have nothing else in common; our political views cover the whole spectrum, our ages cover all from 15 - 95 (?), bikers are company directors, dole bludgers, druggies, patched up members, average mums and dads, career politicians, and list goes on. Would be impossible to get all to agree on everything.

So, even if I realise that it can be seen as naive, am here trying to find out if there is ONE ting we can all agree on. One thing that would be the base for a "movement" where anyone on a bike could agree on the message and support it.

[James Deuce]

Not required for transport (anymore), and you can prove all your life they are safe only to have one accident destroy that reputation over night.

That is going to change very rapidly. The rest of the world, the really big "emerging" markets will ensure that motorcyling continues and its global perception changes. The big bikes, currently mostly toys in Western economies are undergoing a rapid change. KTM and BMW introduced low friction singles (and twins in BMW's case) that are incredibly frugal. Honda have just gone a step further with their 670cc parallel twin destined for a few different platforms from scooters to tourers. Car production is going to head to different countries and the destination markets for the bulk of car production are going to shift from their current western hemisphere-centric focus. The price of fuel in Western economies is going to start making these new and frugal bikes look very attractive as disposable income diminishes and quality of life follows. People will convert their motorcycle hobby to transport, IF they can get decent mileage, something almost impossible on a modern sportsbike (and bikes using the same power plant or its derivatives) with its stratospheric rpm power delivery.

More people will end up on bikes for urban transport around the world.

[avgas]

Good for you. One day you'll be able to pat yourself on the back and sit back and tell your kids (or grandkids) "Motorcycles? Yeah, I remember them. I was part of the process that fucked that up for you."
Said before my bikes aren't going anywhere. I don't recall marijuana disappearing recently.

[avgas]

That is going to change very rapidly. The rest of the world, the really big "emerging" markets will ensure that motorcyling continues and its global perception changes. The big bikes, currently mostly toys in Western economies are undergoing a rapid change. KTM and BMW introduced low friction singles (and twins in BMW's case) that are incredibly frugal. Honda have just gone a step further with their 670cc parallel twin destined for a few different platforms from scooters to tourers. Car production is going to head to different countries and the destination markets for the bulk of car production are going to shift from their current western hemisphere-centric focus. The price of fuel in Western economies is going to start making these new and frugal bikes look very attractive as disposable income diminishes and quality of life follows. People will convert their motorcycle hobby to transport, IF they can get decent mileage, something almost impossible on a modern sportsbike (and bikes using the same power plant or its derivatives) with its stratospheric rpm power delivery.

More people will end up on bikes for urban transport around the world.
I got told this about airships also
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/02/airship_king_thing/

While I hope you are right, and I am wrong........pipe dreams are everywhere.

[MSTRS]

Our first move should be ensuring fair media coverage...as they have repeatedly screwed us and twisted any attempt at delivering a clear message....with out fair media coverage we are just pissing into the wind.

There is no such thing as a fair media. That was brought home to me in 2009.
The media are only interested in a story to generate sales, which equals more advertising $ through their doors. There is no story in reason why a bunch of bikers being upset about something. Did you not notice how the column of bikes in Welly got a shitload of coverage? Yet all that was mentioned was that 'they are unhappy about their rego increase'. There was NOTHING about the reasons for that unhappiness. Even bike-riding motoring journalists are not interested in airing the full story.
I'd like it to be different, but it's not.

[Flip]

That is going to change very rapidly. The rest of the world, the really big "emerging" markets will ensure that motorcyling continues and its global perception changes. The big bikes, currently mostly toys in Western economies are undergoing a rapid change. KTM and BMW introduced low friction singles (and twins in BMW's case) that are incredibly frugal. Honda have just gone a step further with their 670cc parallel twin destined for a few different platforms from scooters to tourers. Car production is going to head to different countries and the destination markets for the bulk of car production are going to shift from their current western hemisphere-centric focus. The price of fuel in Western economies is going to start making these new and frugal bikes look very attractive as disposable income diminishes and quality of life follows. People will convert their motorcycle hobby to transport, IF they can get decent mileage, something almost impossible on a modern sportsbike (and bikes using the same power plant or its derivatives) with its stratospheric rpm power delivery.

More people will end up on bikes for urban transport around the world.

I believe you are right.

As the price of fuel goes up, fuel efficient 2 wheel transport will become a lot more popular. It will be this and nothing we can do that till improve the plight of our lifestyle.

Even my crappy old HD does 6/100 l/km.

[Katman]

Said before my bikes aren't going anywhere. I don't recall marijuana disappearing recently.

Come the day that motorcycles aren't permitted on the road, you'll be dead right - your bikes won't be going anywhere.

[MSTRS]

... People will convert their motorcycle hobby to transport...

Which is still the death of motorcycling as we know it.

[James Deuce]

I got told this about airships also
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/02/airship_king_thing/

While I hope you are right, and I am wrong........pipe dreams are everywhere.

Airships have never comprised the entry level transport medium for most South East Asian countries.

[TrentNz]

ill ride motorbikes even when they aren't allowed on the road..

[avgas]

Airships have never comprised the entry level transport medium for most South East Asian countries.
Most people didn't use lots of stuff when petrol became the source of all power.
Not saying Airships are where things are tracking. Just saying pipe-dreams are everywhere.

Motorcycle manufacturers are going to find it very hard to compete with a second hand car market, and an even more competitive "tiny car" market (tata, chery even BMW is having a crack).

I remember being told that 2-stroke was having a come back............15 years on I am still waiting.

[avgas]

Come the day that motorcycles aren't permitted on the road, you'll be dead right - your bikes won't be going anywhere.
I was riding illegally before. Why would I not ride illegally in the future. As mentioned earlier. Have to keep a track of demerits, and thats about it.
Its unlikely that they will take away your license for riding a motorbike on the road. Considering they don't if your driving a car that has never been legal on the road......you get 35 points damhik.

[Katman]

I was riding illegally before. Why would I not ride illegally in the future. As mentioned earlier. Have to keep a track of demerits, and thats about it.
Its unlikely that they will take away your license for riding a motorbike on the road. Considering they don't if your driving a car that has never been legal on the road......you get 35 points damhik.

Fuck me, this is like teaching a special needs class.

If motorcycles were one day banned from our roads you'd to be hard pressed continuing to ride one - even inconspicuously.

[jafar]

Which is still the death of motorcycling as we know it.

I doubt that, I got my first bike when I was 16 & never owned a car until I was in my 20's.... I suspect many here did something similar .

[Fatt Max]

I still believe “Riders Are Voters” is a great message.

Voters have the power to change governments and influence decisions. Ok, that’s very simplistic but the basic theory is right there. If we want change then we use our vote to force such a change.

Lobby the parties, find the one that has the best deal on offer and run with it. However, the current economic situation and other external influences on our lives means that for some, the best deal for their motorcycling persona is outweighed by the best deal that keeps them in work and earning in order to feed the family.

On another angle, safer roads and safer riding keeps us sunny side up and not in a hospital bed (or worse) which also means we can stay earning and feeding the family.

The crux of it though in my humble opinion is that Riders Are Votes is a unifying message, as long as we can get it across to the right people and we have wide, all embracing support.

[MSTRS]

I doubt that, I got my first bike when I was 16 & never owned a car until I was in my 20's.... I suspect many here did something similar .

Not as many as when we were young(er). The cheap jap import saw to that.
My point is that if a huge number of people turn to commuter bikes for daily transport, how many of them will ride their cheap, frugal commuters for fun in the twisties. A few, yes, but for the majority it'll simply be a transport option, not leisure activity.

[Conquiztador]

I still believe “Riders Are Voters” is a great message.

........

The crux of it though in my humble opinion is that Riders Are Votes is a unifying message, as long as we can get it across to the right people and we have wide, all embracing support.

A voice of sanity comes out from the darkness and perhaps there is some traction gained even if in miniscule steps...

[James Deuce]

The cheap jap import saw to that.
They're about to go away.

[MSTRS]

They're about to go away.

Yep. Heralding in a new, golden era of biking. :msn-wink:

[jafar]

Not as many as when we were young(er). The cheap jap import saw to that.
My point is that if a huge number of people turn to commuter bikes for daily transport, how many of them will ride their cheap, frugal commuters for fun in the twisties. A few, yes, but for the majority it'll simply be a transport option, not leisure activity.

Yes cheap jap imports saw a lot of people that may have otherwise had a bike get a good deal on a cheap car, no doubt about that. The bike manufacturers were slow to combat the problem then & to an extent still are. I hear advertising from car dealerships daily on the radio, but is rare to hear a bike shop advertising their wares .

Riding bikes is a personal thing, not all riders take their bikes out for a fang through the twisties even now, some ride just because they can & enjoy a leisurly cruise.. each to their own.

[jafar]

I still believe “Riders Are Voters” is a great message.

Voters have the power to change governments and influence decisions. Ok, that’s very simplistic but the basic theory is right there. If we want change then we use our vote to force such a change.

Lobby the parties, find the one that has the best deal on offer and run with it. However, the current economic situation and other external influences on our lives means that for some, the best deal for their motorcycling persona is outweighed by the best deal that keeps them in work and earning in order to feed the family.

On another angle, safer roads and safer riding keeps us sunny side up and not in a hospital bed (or worse) which also means we can stay earning and feeding the family.

The crux of it though in my humble opinion is that Riders Are Votes is a unifying message, as long as we can get it across to the right people and we have wide, all embracing support.

This has the small problem of numbers, the riding population is getting older & diminishing .

The hunting lobby had a similar message & were actively promoting it, the only one that took them up on it was Peter Dunn. Same with the ban 1080 campain.

[MSTRS]

Riding bikes is a personal thing, not all riders take their bikes out for a fang through the twisties even now, some ride just because they can & enjoy a leisurly cruise.. each to their own.

Yep. Riding as a leisure activity is what I meant.

[jafar]

Yep. Heralding in a new, golden era of biking. :msn-wink:

A flood of GN125's on the market?? :facepalm:

[DMNTD]

A flood of GN125's on the market?? :facepalm:

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssss!!!!!! :wings::wings::wings:

[GrayWolf]

Think long and hard about this. The future of motorcycling?
The future was always fucked for motorcycles - whether you were a youngin on an RD350 in the 70's, GPZ rider in the 80's, GSXR rider in the 90's or now. Motorcyclists will never be considered the saviors of mankind, or be put in the same prestige as truck drivers or ambulance drivers..................

Motorbikes are like hot air balloons. Not required for transport (anymore), and you can prove all your life they are safe only to have one accident destroy that reputation over night.

To my mind there is one 'angle' that we have voiced but never really exploited... Transport. You are right that a bike is no longer percieved as 'transport'. Yet we know at current consumption in 30yrs or so the oil is going to be in seriously short supply rescource wise. Apart from the growth in cars worldwide. I beleive there will come a 'tipping point' for all vehicles as was seen back in the 1970's oil crisis. Currently we have a constant supply of ever more powerful vehicles, which really is only because of 'public demand' not for any real road usage. most high performance japanese cars require turbo's and as we all know catch a WRX/EVO etc off the turbo, and they are gutless, so that is hardly what you'd call 'overtaking friendly' compared to a lower HP, higher midranged torque/BHP engine. lets be honest 300kph is all about testosterone and bragging rights in the pub. Technology and the oil scarecity is going to require higher MPG from engines in the very near future (10-15yrs?) We already own a form of transport that does not require so much road, enables traffic to flow faster, and can be very economical.
maybe we need a worldwide effort to start pushing the motorcycle as the transport of the 'future'.
Anyone got a BSA A10 and double adult watsonian???

[Brian d marge]

To much Government

Liberty Equality fraternity?

February , Russian for "bye Mr key"

“Our revenge will be the laughter of our children” ( bobby sands ~)


Lets meet on the tennis court

les enfants terrible de la Republique


Stephen

[Maha]

Beehive Bureaucrats...
Heres my message to you..
If I can suck my cock...
Then you can too!

no animals were treated badly during the photo session.

I am taking T-Shirt orders as of Feb 2nd.

[avgas]

Fuck me, this is like teaching a special needs class.
If motorcycles were one day banned from our roads you'd to be hard pressed continuing to ride one - even inconspicuously.
You sound like you would be hard pressed to ride in the rain.

To be honest if it got that bad I would move out of NZ. Who is John Galt?

[skippa1]

Beehive Bureaucrats...
Heres my message to you..
If I can suck my cock...
Then you can too!

I am taking T-Shirt orders as of Feb 2nd.

You might want to consult a medical professional about your cock :blink: I'm no expert but it looks like you have been pressing it between two books :shit:

[Maha]

You might want to consult a medical professional about your cock :blink: I'm no expert but it looks like you have been pressing it between two books :shit:

....does the word girth mean nothing to you?

[skippa1]

....does the word girth mean nothing to you?

only when I try to button up my jeans :facepalm:

[Maha]

This has the small problem of numbers, the riding population is getting older & diminishing .

The hunting lobby had a similar message & were actively promoting it, the only one that took them up on it was Peter Dunn. Same with the ban 1080 campain.

The other small problem with that Riders are Voters thing Marty is that...
It was going to be a defining moment for a certain group who were about to take it to Wellington about this time last year, but then...
It was shelved a few weeks out because ...not even 24 people with the same goal, could agree on how it should unfold.

[jafar]

The other small problem with that Riders are Voters thing Marty is that...
It was going to be a defining moment for a certain group who were about to take it to Wellington about this time last year, but then...
It was shelved a few weeks out because ...not even 24 people with the same goal, could agree on how it should unfold.

Sad but true

[Krayy]

I kind of like the Riders are Voters idea.

One thing that cam to my mind was something along the lines of :

'Our choice, our freedom', 'Our choice for freedom' or 'Our choice, our conseqeunces'

Although I have a sneaking suspicion that something like that has been used before. Probably for a feminine hygeine product.

[Timmeh:P]

I kind of like the Riders are Voters idea.

One thing that cam to my mind was something along the lines of :

'Our choice, our freedom', 'Our choice for freedom' or 'Our choice, our conseqeunces'

Although I have a sneaking suspicion that something like that has been used before. Probably for a feminine hygeine product.


It has been used before: http://www.ridersarevoters.org/what-we-want/

Having found that... this may be of some interest: http://www.mcia.co.uk/Campaigns/Case-for-Motorcycling.aspx

I expect some have probably seen it before.

[Conquiztador]

The other small problem with that Riders are Voters thing Marty is that...
It was going to be a defining moment for a certain group who were about to take it to Wellington about this time last year, but then...
It was shelved a few weeks out because ...not even 24 people with the same goal, could agree on how it should unfold.

Therefore the only way is to go back to basics until we find one thing all bikers can agree on. Will be something really simple type: Freedom to ride whenever and where ever we want to, no more rego/acc hikes!, no new bike legislation, or something even more basic like We like to ride.

[skippa1]

While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions:blink:

[MSTRS]

If we choose our actions well, we exert control over the consequences. Mostly.

[shrub]

I actually quite like the way things are gong.:blink:

Hear me out. My bike has no rego. When I ride now I get a little buzz. The same kind of buzz I used to get when I was a youngin on my L plates, taking the misses for a blat on the GB400. I was illegal.
While the cars I own are all Rego'd. The bike will stay unrego'd (unless the ACC thing changes). I have southern cross healthcare. So they can patch me up for being a rebel.
I actually think this might bring more of the "biker spirit" out in the long run. The softcocks either won't be able to afford the ACC levies, or will be scared off by B.S. marketing. Leave only us normal folk 'scum' left for the cops the chase.
Only thing I will have to watch will be those damn demerit points again. Will be a case of getting to 95. Then locking the bike up for a year and doing it all again.
So if your serious about going head to head with ACC/govt. Stop filling their coffers with biker money. Live a little and stop being soft cocks.
Exciting times ahead.

My rego ran out in June and is now on hold. Over the last 10 years I have been pulled up 6 times for various things apart from booze checkpoints, so at $200 a pop that makes it $120.00 a year for rego. The biggest risk is from parking nazis, but in my experience they very rarely check bikes in the places I park.

[Oblivion]

Ride for the thrill, not the spill.

[Swoop]

When many of us (approx 9,000) rode to the beehive on the Bikeoi to protest against the increase in the ACC levies we all agreed that the increase was unfair and too much.
Yup. Sounds like "get fucked" to me!

Fuck me, this is like teaching a special needs class.
Well, you are a special needs teacher.

[Oblivion]

Well, you are a special needs teacher.

Someone has to dun help us speshul needz peoplez :weird:

[skippa1]

Well, you are a special needs teacher.

"A teacher who is attempting to teach without inspiring the pupil with a desire to learn is hammering on cold iron." -- Horace Mann:eek:

[Fatt Max]

The other small problem with that Riders are Voters thing Marty is that...
It was going to be a defining moment for a certain group who were about to take it to Wellington about this time last year, but then...
It was shelved a few weeks out because ...not even 24 people with the same goal, could agree on how it should unfold.

……and to this day those that tried the hardest are still getting kicked in the gonads one way or another

But hey, all you need is love……and pastry…plenty of pastry…

[Maha]

……and to this day those that tried the hardest are still getting kicked in the gonads one way or another

But hey, all you need is love……and pastry…plenty of pastry…

Short or flakey?....no not the gonads, the pastry.

[scumdog]

My rego ran out in June and is now on hold. Over the last 10 years I have been pulled up 6 times for various things apart from booze checkpoints, so at $200 a pop that makes it $120.00 a year for rego. The biggest risk is from parking nazis, but in my experience they very rarely check bikes in the places I park.


You forgot to add the 15 demerits that each such ticket will now have along with it...:shifty:

[shrub]

You forgot to add the 15 demerits that each such ticket will now have along with it...:shifty:

Indeed, scurvy dogs such as myself are making the roads dangerous for widows and orphans by not having registration on our bikes, :nono: so it is both right and fair that those of us who thumb our noses at the noble and brave men and women of our cuntstabulary :Police: by not having a safety sticker should be forced off our loud and dangerous motorbicycles.

I am suitably chastened :spanking: and will make my way to the Post Office whereupon I will purchase as much registration as I can, for the safety of the weak and vulnerable in our society is important to me, and in fact I shall do so on foot as my unregistered machine is too dangerous to ride.

Unless of course there's a boozer on the way, in which case I will spend my registration money on beer to quench the thirst that walking such a distance will no doubt cause. :drinkup:

[scumdog]

Indeed, scurvy dogs such as myself are making the roads dangerous for widows and orphans by not having registration on our bikes, :nono: so it is both right and fair that those of us who thumb our noses at the noble and brave men and women of our cuntstabulary :Police: by not having a safety sticker should be forced off our loud and dangerous motorbicycles.

I am suitably chastened :spanking: and will make my way to the Post Office whereupon I will purchase as much registration as I can, for the safety of the weak and vulnerable in our society is important to me, and in fact I shall do so on foot as my unregistered machine is too dangerous to ride.

Unless of course there's a boozer on the way, in which case I will spend my registration money on beer to quench the thirst that walking such a distance will no doubt cause. :drinkup:

Hey, I didn't say you actually had to DO anything....<_<

[Madness]

IT"S A RACKET
http://www.diadora.com.au/downloads/products/large/pro-d67d8ab4f4c10bf22aa353e27879133c.jpg


"That extra couple of hundred dollars you've been paying in bike rego each year is paying the wages of people who are designing new laws that, if passed could make it mandatory for you to ride dressed like a tennis ball. Are you going to stand up for your right to ride?"

I found the attached poster (Google) - is it from the U.K?

[mashman]

I ride a motorcycle. I drive a car. I ride a bicycle. I'm a pedestrian. I use the road in/on the vehicle of my choice at any given time. I can die using any form of transportation. I have the accident. Charge me once and then leave my pocket the fuck alone.

[joan of arc]

Have to agree that it would be hard to find a unifying message because we ride for different reasons. Is like asking us to unanimously choose the best bike!

Said that, I reckon that if we all wore day glow until we earned the right not stand out like a belisha beacon (for those of you too young to know, is the bright circles on top of the poles at ped crossings) then most would ride with the aim of getting to black. Reckon that it would soon improve riding stats. "Earning" this right would be the tricky thing to categorise. Getting a speeding ticket - nah shouldn't count as a mark against black. Hell everyone on a bike speeds. Means that you guys that have ridden thousands of km without any bother at all would be grandfathered in as black riders. The rest of us (yep me included) would be ridin' in bright til we had done the miles safely to prove that we deserve black

[NONONO]

Sorry, but I don't understand which part of this is difficult.
I ride legally.
I have a registered motorcycle that has a WOF. I have a license to ride.
That is enough in my opinion.
The fact that I also have full insurance (that is not mandatory), a clean license and a 30 odd year history of not falling off, not causing mayhem (well 20 years of that one) and not, as some would have it, bleeding the country dry via ACC claims (not a one) is neither here nor there.
I comply with all current legislation.
I firmly believe that we have allowed the legislation to creep up on us, helmets, lights on and the ACC debacle. However, if we are going to make a stand it needs to be about line in the sand stuff.
No more legislation, for any reason. Enough is enough.
No more accepting that we are scape goats and cash cows.
IF legislation is passed it needs to be across the board, all road users should comply.
So, I will ride a day glo bike, when all vehicles are day glo.
I will accept ongoing training and stiffer tests, when all vehicles are subject to the same rules.
I object to raised ACC levies based on lies and opportunistic National Party ideology.
Frankly I would hope and pray, and support any action that makes it more likely, that ACC returns to Woodhouse principles. But I know it's not likely.
Simple message;
Enough is enough, no further.

[Brian d marge]

Simple message;
Enough is enough, no further.

I think thats the message right there

Cuts across everyone , oldies , car drivers , me you .


Stephen

[avgas]

I ride a motorcycle. I drive a car. I ride a bicycle. I'm a pedestrian. I use the road in/on the vehicle of my choice at any given time. I can die using any form of transportation. I have the accident. Charge me once and then leave my pocket the fuck alone.



Simple message;
Enough is enough, no further.

How about:

"Fuck you, I'm not paying anymore"

Simple, clear........and I think the average biker won't mind yelling it.
But it of course requires every biker to grow a pair and not pay rego anymore......which is what I have said from day one.

But either way I win. Either people grow a pair and stop paying, or don't and only the real bikers are left to ride.

[Katman]

Simple message;
Enough is enough, no further.

Well I loled.

[NONONO]

You loled did you?
did you like it?
loled....Hmmmmm...you are how old?:facepalm:

[Katman]

You loled did you?
did you like it?
loled....Hmmmmm...you are how old?:facepalm:

You seem to think the powers that be give a fuck about you.

How old are you?

[NONONO]

loled:laugh:

[jafar]

But it of course requires every biker to grow a pair and not pay rego anymore......which is what I have said from day one.

But either way I win. Either people grow a pair and stop paying, or don't and only the real bikers are left to ride.

So those of us that pay our rego's & ride are not real bikers ? :laugh:

Only those that flout the system & ride with no rego risking a $200 fine & 15 demerit points are the real bikers???? Sorry but I can't see a win in there for you "real bikers" @ all.

[mashman]

How about:

"Fuck you, I'm not paying anymore"

Simple, clear........and I think the average biker won't mind yelling it.
But it of course requires every biker to grow a pair and not pay rego anymore......which is what I have said from day one.

But either way I win. Either people grow a pair and stop paying, or don't and only the real bikers are left to ride.

I don't agree with not paying. It gives them the mandate to rise the levies further and I have a box of beer riding on that not happening. It also provides less $$$ to the communal coffer... so that's why my pair aren't growing.

Do you pay ACC on any vehicle you own?

[Ronin]

Airships have never comprised the entry level transport medium for most South East Asian countries.

Kites in a strong wind on the other hand...

[Ocean1]

And they've always been about ACC...

I asked myself when ACC was first introduced; "How long will it be until they decide that because they're paying the bills they've got the right to dictate how we live."

There's been a slow but steady erosion, constrained by some lingering political recognition that it is, in fact our lives, our right, and that ACC was explicitly designed to be proof against such inteferance. Until last year. They finally found a group small enough and diverse enough to be an easy target.

And now I can answer the question. 38 years.

And lets face it, they were right about how easy it'd be.


The future was always fucked for motorcycles

Possibly. We're obviously easy enough to roll for an extra few hundred a year, I wonder if it'll be as easy to park us up completely.

[Katman]

Possibly. We're obviously easy enough to roll for an extra few hundred a year, I wonder if it'll be as easy to park us up completely.

Are you game enough to risk finding out?

[scumdog]

So those of us that pay our rego's & ride are not real bikers ? :laugh:

Only those that flout the system & ride with no rego risking a $200 fine & 15 demerit points are the real bikers???? Sorry but I can't see a win in there for you "real bikers" @ all.

Ah, it's $100....<_<

[avgas]

I don't agree with not paying. It gives them the mandate to rise the levies further and I have a box of beer riding on that not happening. It also provides less $$$ to the communal coffer... so that's why my pair aren't growing.
Do you pay ACC on any vehicle you own?
Fair calls. But to put it blankly.
We complained - nothing changed.
We protested - nothing happened.
We tried to show that we are people too, acted all nice like - nothing happened.

Apart from us stopping the flow of money. Or riots on the streets. We have nothing. Change of government won't fix this - we simply don't have the numbers.
So pay or not. Bend over :laugh:

[Renegade]

i wont pay my rego/acc and in return i promise not to claim acc if i crash my bike, il use my medical insurance.

"let the riders decide"

[avgas]

Possibly. We're obviously easy enough to roll for an extra few hundred a year, I wonder if it'll be as easy to park us up completely.
I like to hope not. But the general consensus is not promising. Many here don't want to risk $100 + 15 demerits.
Out of interest what was the fine when the helmet law was passed?

[mashman]

Fair calls. But to put it blankly.
We complained - nothing changed.
We protested - nothing happened.
We tried to show that we are people too, acted all nice like - nothing happened.

Apart from us stopping the flow of money. Or riots on the streets. We have nothing. Change of government won't fix this - we simply don't have the numbers.
So pay or not. Bend over :laugh:

Very true. The flow of money stopping won't work, or at least I can't see it working, more putting more power in "their" hands in terms of dirty biker bastards. Although maybe that's the way it needs to go to show the public how stupid TPTB are... dunno, ohhhhhhh you're conflicting me now, stop it.

[Katman]

One day you dumb fucks will wake up and realise I was right all along.

[BMWST?]

Sorry, but I don't understand which part of this is difficult.
I ride legally.
I have a registered motorcycle that has a WOF. I have a license to ride.
That is enough in my opinion.
The fact that I also have full insurance (that is not mandatory), a clean license and a 30 odd year history of not falling off, not causing mayhem (well 20 years of that one) and not, as some would have it, bleeding the country dry via ACC claims (not a one) is neither here nor there.
I comply with all current legislation.
I firmly believe that we have allowed the legislation to creep up on us, helmets, lights on and the ACC debacle. However, if we are going to make a stand it needs to be about line in the sand stuff.
No more legislation, for any reason. Enough is enough.
No more accepting that we are scape goats and cash cows.
IF legislation is passed it needs to be across the board, all road users should comply.
So, I will ride a day glo bike, when all vehicles are day glo.
I will accept ongoing training and stiffer tests, when all vehicles are subject to the same rules.
I object to raised ACC levies based on lies and opportunistic National Party ideology.
Frankly I would hope and pray, and support any action that makes it more likely, that ACC returns to Woodhouse principles. But I know it's not likely.
Simple message;
Enough is enough, no further.



:stupid::stupid::stupid:

[Ocean1]

Are you game enough to risk finding out?

Are you man enought to try to stop me?

[jafar]

i wont pay my rego/acc and in return i promise not to claim acc if i crash my bike, il use my medical insurance.

"let the riders decide"

I stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think your medical insurer will pay out for things that ACC would normally pay out for. Like your ride to the horsepiddle in a chopper or ambulance for example. We don't have an opt out provision in the road ACC system, well not a legal one anyway.

Assuming that you don't pay rego & therefor are not paying your way in this system, would you be happy for the first response teams to send the chopper or ambulance back due to your being uninsured via the ACC system ??? Or would you expect to freeload off those that do pay their share (and yours) ??

[Berries]

I still can't work out where I am going to put this bumper sticker.

[Flip]

I still can't work out where I am going to put this bumper sticker.

Hows this one "Katman was right all along, but is still a dick."

[paturoa]

If New Zealand is a free country, then how, come it is costing me more and more to ride my bike?

[Scuba_Steve]

One day you dumb fucks will wake up and realise I was right all along.

:killingme :rofl: Must be about time for your electric shock therapy aint it???

[Fatt Max]

As long as waving remains legal......

FFS, we have thrashed this have we not. We do have the numbers but their opinions, beliefs, sentiments and passions are so divided that we would struggle to agree on a common message, which is rather heartbreaking to say the least.

I have read and re-read the content of this thread and see a number of major points that we could make in our defence and a number of actions that would defend us. It would appear that this forum will not be the catalyst for, at the very least, a basic agreement.

It does, however, present us with a wide and diverse pallet of opinions, views and beliefs on what motorcycling and motorcycles mean to us as our own individual selves.

All I can say is that long may this diversity reign across our community and hopefully one day a worthy soul will have the courage, conviction and tenacity to bring it all together, all for the good of motorcycling.

It is clear that we all love it, lets at least agree not to let our differing opinions cause us to hate it...then TPTB really have won....

[Conquiztador]

As long as waving remains legal......

FFS, we have thrashed this have we not. We do have the numbers but their opinions, beliefs, sentiments and passions are so divided that we would struggle to agree on a common message, which is rather heartbreaking to say the least.

I have read and re-read the content of this thread and see a number of major points that we could make in our defence and a number of actions that would defend us. It would appear that this forum will not be the catalyst for, at the very least, a basic agreement.

It does, however, present us with a wide and diverse pallet of opinions, views and beliefs on what motorcycling and motorcycles mean to us as our own individual selves.

All I can say is that long may this diversity reign across our community and hopefully one day a worthy soul will have the courage, conviction and tenacity to bring it all together, all for the good of motorcycling.

It is clear that we all love it, lets at least agree not to let our differing opinions cause us to hate it...then TPTB really have won....

You would hope that we could agree on a common message. And even if that message might not be everyones favorite, the message would be agreed upon for the common good; So that we could work together on saving motorcycling in NZ from draconian legislation! Because if we do not all agree on saving.... Hang on...

What about: Save Motorcycling

[Madness]

What about: Save Motorcycling

Save our
Arses
From
Excessive
Regulation

[Lelitu]

this thread rather firmly brings to mind the following quote


if we do not hang together, we shall most assuredly hang separately

as for a message that we could unite behind, I am not sure of a good way to word it
however, I suspect a lot more than just bikers could get behind a message aimed at improving driving/riding training for everyone.

unsafe driving isn't just an issue for bikers, so why not make it about that, rather than ACC specifically.

[sleemanj]

"One Fee For All"

In so much as that ACC levies are not equally apportioned, and they should be.

[TrentNz]

i believe all he wanted was a slogan to unite motorbikers.. not a debate.

[Conquiztador]

i believe all he wanted was a slogan to unite motorbikers.. not a debate.

What we want and what we get seldom fully work out. But if you read it all there are some pearls hidden in. Small steps and all that...

[Brian d marge]

Save our
Arses
From
Excessive
Regulation

and this one wot as been said before and we have our slogan

"Enough is enough, no further. "

easy
done
finished

end of debate

Next

Stephen

[TrentNz]

or maybe a simple
"FTP" Will suffice

[Katman]

Our failure to make any headway with TPTB up till this point has been due to the fact that we have done nothing but demand things of other people.

We are not in a position to demand anything of others.

If we are to try demanding anything it needs to be for a far greater standard of riding ability (and responsibility) from ourselves.

Forget about demanding it from others. The best we can hope for is that if we lead the way, others will follow.

It's time to start losing our egos.

[yungatart]

You would hope that we could agree on a common message.

Why? All we (motorcyclists) have in common is our love of 2 wheeled conveyances.
Even that is not enough...cruisers, sprotbikes, tourers, scooters, commuters, dirt bikes, adventure bikes...

Everything else is different...values system, political views, income, religion, race, education,...

FFS we can't even wave to each other, let alone agree on one message.

[MSTRS]

FFS we can't even wave to each other...

To see a wave, first you have to be looking...:bleh::laugh:

[avgas]

One day you dumb fucks will wake up and realise I was right all along.
Never said you were wrong.
Just said what your were saying wasn't useful.
If they can tax health-care, they can tax us. And will continue to do so until we are dry.
I find it highly unlikely that a million+ citizens will protest on our behalf.......regardless on how nice we seem.
We are not a requirement of society, and there are people out there that want us gone.......unfortunately we seem to be paying their wages.

[shrub]

Hey, I didn't say you actually had to DO anything....<_<

Well I did. As a Dog fearing and lawn abiding citizen I duly sullied forth with Currency to the local postshop, but to my amazement before I was even half way there I came upon a building filled with light, laughter and music. I felt drawn into it, as though by a Higher Power and as I walked in the open doors I was warmly greeted by a smiling publican who was filling glasses with golden, sparkling ale. My thirst took control and before you could say "Paula Rose" I had a glass of beer in my hand, which in about the time it takes my Mighty Thunderbird to accelerate to the deadly speed of 105 kmh had poured down my parched throat.

So sadly my motorcycle is still too dangerous to ride, but I don't give a fuck.

Back to topic, it's time we realised that the ridiculous registration charges are here to stay we need to move on by either refusing to pay and viewing the fines as a discounted registration or accepting that the cost of operating a motorcycle has increased.

The problem is that too many people ride like dickheads. It's pretty clear that our beloved leaders see us as being a bunch of idiots who refuse to grow up and buy SUVs, so what we want is irrelevant and unimportant to them which means the only attention we will get is either increasingly draconian rules to control our behaviour or rises in the costs of motorcycling. We WILL be required to wear shit like high vis vests, we WILL see limits placed on capacity and power of bikes, we WILL find it harder to modify our bikes, we WILL see our favourite roads targeted by the cuntstables etc, etc, etc.

Unless we change what we do.

First, we need to stop riding like dickheads, and that includes me. Recently someone crashed riding down a busy industrial street on their back wheel, a few weeks ago I was on my way from Akaroa and a tosser on a sportsbike overtook me on a corner with his knee down and I met a guy a few months ago who had just bought a new R1 despite not having ridden since he owned his GSX1100. He couldn't wait to have it run in so he could "see what it does".

Riding bikes is one of the most important things in most of our lives, but it can also be incredibly dangerous so it needs to be taken seriously. Just before Xmas a couple of mates of mine and I went out and got some bambi for the freezer, and I compared how we treated guns and shooting to how a lot of people treat motorcycling. Because we hadn't hunted together before we spent time checking out attitudes, experience and skill first. Then we discussed what would happen, who would do what, be where etc. Rifles were passed around, discussed and admired, but only after checking that they were safe - constantly. In 4 hours hunting we fired 2 rounds between us, and brought back 2 spikers (sadly my magazine stayed full). None of us emptied rounds into trees, tin cans etc, or played rambo.

Compare that to how people ride. When we ride with other people, how often do we check that they know what they're doing and know the rules of group riding? How often when we ride do we showboat and act like Rambo on a bike? Do we take motorcycling as seriously as (intelligent) hunters take hunting?

Then we need to start acting like professional and intelligent people who know what they're doing and have a plan. Being staunch and macho is all good, and having big protest rides feels great, but does that challenge the stereotype of poorly educated, immature trouble makers who are whining about taking personal responsibility? Or does it support that stereotype and entrench the attitudes against us? We need to be serious to be taken seriously, and I thing that's what this thread is about.

[skippa1]

It's time to start losing our egos.

After you.......:whistle:

[nzmikey]

I kinda agree with this statement, I have had a convo with someone at some stage that sounded exactly like this ..... More so the rego discount for not binning it .


If you put a years rego on your bike, and remain claim free for that entire year, a certain percentage should be credited towards your next rego, bringing the price of the next one down, and for that to continue untill you reach a certain point, where you are still paying a levy but only a fraction of the original amount, when you make an ACC claim that is bike related, you start from scratch.

Obviously that is saying 'we accept we are at fault' which we know isn't the case, but its just a compromise that could work
The next way and the most obvious way would be to,

Bring motorcycle levies down, and out cage levies up, obviously there are more cages on the roads with Rego than bikes, so you share the levies out among all road users who already pay such levies in their rego, it would make the levies alot lower, and shared out by everybody
When it comes down to it, this entire ACC problem, is yet to be solved, its yet to make any headway, all we seem to do is cry about it, but nothing really seems to get done, Im not saying I can do better,
But im sure as a country wide community we could do better.


& FatMax Is right when he says ....... PIES PIES PIES! ,kidding this is what he said "
I still believe “Riders Are Voters” is a great message.

Voters have the power to change governments and influence decisions. Ok, that’s very simplistic but the basic theory is right there. If we want change then we use our vote to force such a change.

Lobby the parties, find the one that has the best deal on offer and run with it. However, the current economic situation and other external influences on our lives means that for some, the best deal for their motorcycling persona is outweighed by the best deal that keeps them in work and earning in order to feed the family.

On another angle, safer roads and safer riding keeps us sunny side up and not in a hospital bed (or worse) which also means we can stay earning and feeding the family.

The crux of it though in my humble opinion is that Riders Are Votes is a unifying message, as long as we can get it across to the right people and we have wide, all embracing support.

[nzmikey]

What I DONT agree with is the following :

How about:

"Fuck you, I'm not paying anymore"

Simple, clear........and I think the average biker won't mind yelling it.
But it of course requires every biker to grow a pair and not pay rego anymore......which is what I have said from day one.

But either way I win. Either people grow a pair and stop paying, or don't and only the real bikers are left to ride.

That does not help the system, Why you ask ? ........ well the powers at large will just say a big FUCK YOU & they will keep doing what ever they are doing anyway, If we can work "with them" ( A novel approach I know ) we stand a better chance of bringing them around & not ending up paying even more than we do now.

In regards to a protest PLEEEAAASSEE dont do what those "Occupy" fuckwits are doing as it does not work .

[MSTRS]

I kinda agree with this statement, I have had a convo with someone at some stage that sounded exactly like this ..... More so the rego discount for not binning it .


Never going to happen. Not while it is the vehicle that is registered, and not the licence holder. And that is also something so unlikely to happen as to be never as well.
Ownership of a vehicle is not restricted to the licence holder.

[Swoop]

One day you dumb fucks will wake up and realise I was right all along.
We knew all along that you were right... a right tosser.

"One Fee For All"
"One person, one fee". We can only ride/drive ONE vehicle at a time.

[Maha]

Our failure to make any headway with TPTB up till this point has been due to the fact that we have done nothing but demand things of other people.

We are not in a position to demand anything of others.

If we are to try demanding anything it needs to be for a far greater standard of riding ability (and responsibility) from ourselves.

Forget about demanding it from others. The best we can hope for is that if we lead the way, others will follow.

It's time to start losing our egos.

Totally agree with this post.
The excessive bleating (yes im thinking sheep) on the subject matter has become boring to the point that, I now only read these threads for a giggle.
All anyone seems to do is talk talk talk and opinionate on what really, is a non subject to most.
With the exception of a handfull that (without naming names) are active on the subject matter...the best that the rest can come up with is...childishly abusing Katman (water off a ducks back btw) who is one of the few that actually talks any sense.

[Scuba_Steve]

In regards to a protest PLEEEAAASSEE dont do what those "Occupy" fuckwits are doing as it does not work .

I would have to disagree, what they are doing IS impacting thats why the world Govts want them moved out as soon as possible.
The Govts ignore protests like Bikeoi because yes they're here in large now but tomorrow they'll be gone & the chance of them returning are slim so we'll continue to insert the stick.
Whereas the Occupy is in their face everyday, not going anywhere fast & it's pissing them off. If Bikeoi hada "occupied" parliament grounds we would have got what we wanted, but the problem being (& the Govts rely on this) people are either too busy to sustain protest or they start questioning the impact they're making while getting scared of the Govts retaliation to the protest, which in itself is the Govt getting scared & pulling out desperate measures to save themselves. If you can ride out the uncertainty & Govt retaliation your pretty much golden.

[The Lone Rider]

Should hi viz come in, I'd be looking at a large middle finger patch in Hi viz, with the words "Can you see me now" below it.

Or something along those lines.

[skippa1]

the best that the rest can come up with is...childishly abusing Katman :nya:

:violin: and and of course he has always been polite, courteous and has never been abusive :not:

[scumdog]

Whereas the Occupy is in their face everyday, not going anywhere fast & it's pissing them off.

There's still an 'Occupy' somewhere?

I hadn't noticed.

In fact I had actually forgotten that such a thing ever existed.

Oh my, such an impact eh...:shifty:

[Maha]

:nya:

:violin: and and of course he has always been polite, courteous and has never been abusive :not:

Point was...without Katmans input and at times, concise statements (polite or otherwise) these threads would stagnate by page two...fact.

[Katman]

and and of course he has always been polite, courteous and has never been abusive :not:

<img src="http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u58/kleenex.jpg"/>

[Oblivion]

Do they come with Aloe Vera for added femininity?

[mashman]

Do they come with Aloe Vera for added femininity?

so that they don't chafe?

[Berries]

i believe all he wanted was a slogan to unite motorbikers.. not a debate.
Now that one doesn't even rhyme.

[skippa1]

why would you post a picture of the top of your bed side cabinet?:eek:

[DrunkenMistake]

why would you post a picture of the top of your bed side cabinet?:eek:

ohhhhhh your gonna get an infraction forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrr posting a quote including a photoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo :Police: :laugh:

[Brian d marge]

why would you post a picture of the top of your bed side cabinet?:eek:


oohh YES .. you are sooo infracted ...... live fast , dont care , get infracted

As others have pointed out

Stephen

[skippa1]

ohhhhhh your gonna get an infraction forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrr posting a quote including a photoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo :Police: :laugh:

:eek:one can only hope so:laugh:

[martybabe]

BIKERS UNITED! mayhaps a perfect example of an oxymoron.

[TrentNz]

Now that one doesn't even rhyme.

good call haha :niceone:

[Renegade]

I stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think your medical insurer will pay out for things that ACC would normally pay out for. Like your ride to the horsepiddle in a chopper or ambulance for example. We don't have an opt out provision in the road ACC system, well not a legal one anyway.

Assuming that you don't pay rego & therefor are not paying your way in this system, would you be happy for the first response teams to send the chopper or ambulance back due to your being uninsured via the ACC system ??? Or would you expect to freeload off those that do pay their share (and yours) ??


Fair call, id like to think that the rego/acc i paid for my car will cover me for the initial get to hospital regardless of which conveyance im using, plus i get extra browny points for being a rescue chopper and blood doner.

[jafar]

Fair call, id like to think that the rego/acc i paid for my car will cover me for the initial get to hospital regardless of which conveyance im using, plus i get extra browny points for being a rescue chopper and blood doner.


I would like to see the ACC paid once per driver, an annual licence fee that covers the ACC & have the Levies removed from the rego altogether. In theory it would be a fairer system. :msn-wink:

[jafar]

i believe all he wanted was a slogan to unite motorbikers.. not a debate.

Thats easy :msn-wink:

FREE BEER :niceone:

[caseye]

I would like to see the ACC paid once per driver, an annual licence fee that covers the ACC & have the Levies removed from the rego altogether. In theory it would be a fairer system. :msn-wink:

Martin sometimes I just have to take back what I've always said about you, you know, he's a dumb Hick ... da de da! that is truely inspirational.Kidding mate, honest, don't hit me! Argh#$%@!
I'd run with this as a base idea and I saw another post that said something something like "one levy for all".
I'd be right behind this as an initiative.
This way we take every other road user with us and suddenly the voter base is huge.
Con here it is, your idea/slogan.
Get to work.

[GrayWolf]

I would like to see the ACC paid once per driver, an annual licence fee that covers the ACC & have the Levies removed from the rego altogether. In theory it would be a fairer system.
I'd run with this as a base idea and I saw another post that said something something like "one levy for all".
I'd be right behind this as an initiative.
This way we take every other road user with us and suddenly the voter base is huge.

Get to work.

I did mention this ages ago... There is sufficient 'evidence' if you use the same method as used to collate bike related 'evidence' for TPTB to push for high performance cars, V8's Evo, WRX, Skylines etc to be given the same 'high ACC levy' as a motorcyclist... That would create a bit of whinging from the 'other side' and I would be 'happy'? to pay my $500+ knowing that they are also suffering the same.

[NONONO]

Point was...without Katmans input and at times, concise statements (polite or otherwise) these threads would stagnate by page two...fact.

Jeez Mark, that's a great hypothesis.
Can we test it?

[Katman]

Jeez Mark, that's a great hypothesis.
Can we test it?

Trust me, it's already been tested.

[NONONO]

Can we test it again?

[PrincessBandit]

why would you post a picture of the top of your bed side cabinet?:eek:

There, fixed it for ya. No infraction now for you dear.

[Conquiztador]

Thanks to those who have come up with ideas relating to the initial question/issue/posting.

To the rest; what part of trying to come up with a slogan/message/vision to unite bikers did you find hard???

Point being: I was not wanting to start yet again a thread with arguing re ACC, why we can not agree on things, why we should just pull our pants down and die etc.

Please use your brain/knowledge/experience and give this your best shot!

Please...

[Katman]

Please use your brain/knowledge/experience and give this your best shot!



<img src="http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=16244895"/>

[Conquiztador]

Go away. 10char

[Scuba_Steve]

Motorbikes, FUCK YEAH!!!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls.

[skippa1]

There, fixed it for ya. No infraction now for you dear.

:shit:great. Thanks "dear".<_<never had an infraction before.......:no: I was and still am an infraction virgin now thanks to you:scratch:

[The Lone Rider]

Thanks to those who have come up with ideas relating to the initial question/issue/posting.

To the rest; what part of trying to come up with a slogan/message/vision to unite bikers did you find hard???

Point being: I was not wanting to start yet again a thread with arguing re ACC, why we can not agree on things, why we should just pull our pants down and die etc.

Please use your brain/knowledge/experience and give this your best shot!

Please...

Our bikes. Our Freedom. Our Choice.

[MSTRS]

I would like to see the ACC paid once per driver, an annual licence fee that covers the ACC & have the Levies removed from the rego altogether. In theory it would be a fairer system. :msn-wink:
Not even close to being fair.
How many of 'us' argue that paying a huge levy when they ride their bike once a month throughout the year is unfair. They can't use the 'onhold' function because of the 3 month minimum period. So they grouch (understandable) or they simply put on hold and ride any way (even more understandable).
Do you think that old Mrs Jones who uses her Demio to pop into town for the groceries once a fortnight will thank the change to on licence?? Especially when she sees the guy next door do enough miles to wear out his car every 2 years? She knows that he pays the same annual fee on his licence. (It's only different to on vehicle in that it would be new, and therefore a change, and that would cause her to think a bit more about the whole levy thing)
Beware the family of four who share a car (rare, but does happen) - they are likely to tar'n'feather the person who brought such a change about. Currently they pay $350 for the one car and split it between them...on licence means that will prolly become $350 each.
Mind you, anyone who owns multiple vehicles especially large capacity motorcycles (who could that be?:devil2:) - well, those people would be calling on the pope to grant a living sainthood...



I'd run with this as a base idea and I saw another post that said something something like "one levy for all".
I'd be right behind this as an initiative.
This way we take every other road user with us and suddenly the voter base is huge.


What an astounding enlightened system that would be.
Wait a minute...

The point I'm making is, all attempts to make what we had 'fairer' have simply increased the inequities. And any more attempts to do the same will not fix anything.

If we truly want fair, than it must all go onto fuel. Sucks to be the person who has a turbo V8 and does 50,000kms a year.

But I think what we all really want, if we use a powered vehicle, is to simply pay the same amount as everyone else does. Just like it used to be.

[jafar]

Not even close to being fair.
How many of 'us' argue that paying a huge levy when they ride their bike once a month throughout the year is unfair. They can't use the 'onhold' function because of the 3 month minimum period. So they grouch (understandable) or they simply put on hold and ride any way (even more understandable).
Do you think that old Mrs Jones who uses her Demio to pop into town for the groceries once a fortnight will thank the change to on licence?? Especially when she sees the guy next door do enough miles to wear out his car every 2 years? She knows that he pays the same annual fee on his licence. (It's only different to on vehicle in that it would be new, and therefore a change, and that would cause her to think a bit more about the whole levy thing)
Beware the family of four who share a car (rare, but does happen) - they are likely to tar'n'feather the person who brought such a change about. Currently they pay $350 for the one car and split it between them...on licence means that will prolly become $350 each.
Mind you, anyone who owns multiple vehicles especially large capacity motorcycles (who could that be?:devil2:) - well, those people would be calling on the pope to grant a living sainthood...



What an astounding enlightened system that would be.
Wait a minute...

The point I'm making is, all attempts to make what we had 'fairer' have simply increased the inequities. And any more attempts to do the same will not fix anything.

If we truly want fair, than it must all go onto fuel. Sucks to be the person who has a turbo V8 and does 50,000kms a year.

But I think what we all really want, if we use a powered vehicle, is to simply pay the same amount as everyone else does. Just like it used to be.


I can't see a problem with tacking the ACC to driver licences , you have licence therefore you drive, here is your annual fee for using the nations roads. If you don't want to drive then don't pay the fee. Might mean some are paying a bit more & others a bit less.

ACC is already loaded into fuel, the rego bit is a "top up" . Add to that employer & employee premiums. ACC have at least 4 income streams coming from every person that has a job & a licence. If the licence is levyed then it would stay @ 4 , not how it is now with multiple vehicle owners being penalised for having more than one road registered vehicle.

[oneofsix]

I can't see a problem with tacking the ACC to driver licences , you have licence therefore you drive, here is your annual fee for using the nations roads. If you don't want to drive then don't pay the fee. Might mean some are paying a bit more & others a bit less.


I see a couple of problems. Lots of peoples have the licence and don't drive or ride but need to retain the licence until they can again. Lots of people drive or ride without the correct licence.

[MSTRS]

I can't see a problem with tacking the ACC to driver licences , you have licence therefore you drive, here is your annual fee for using the nations roads. If you don't want to drive then don't pay the fee. Might mean some are paying a bit more & others a bit less.

ACC is already loaded into fuel, the rego bit is a "top up" . Add to that employer & employee premiums. ACC have at least 4 income streams coming from every person that has a job & a licence. If the licence is levyed then it would stay @ 4 , not how it is now with multiple vehicle owners being penalised for having more than one road registered vehicle.
Yea I know some is on fuel now...I mean all of it on fuel. If you are using fuel, you are on the road (presumably) so you're getting the benefit of the cover. If it is on vehicles (as now) or on licences, there is the inequity of you pay whether you use or not, the on-hold is too restrictive with the 3 month minimum and because there are likely more vehicles than licences the licence method of levying would entail an increase for everyone. ACC wants X$ no matter how they get it, so it's spread amongst the pool of users. There are plenty of people out there with a licence who seldom drive, so many of them would simply let their licence go, further reducing the pool of potential payers.


I see a couple of problems. Lots of peoples have the licence and don't drive or ride but need to retain the licence until they can again. Lots of people drive or ride without the correct licence.

Or any licence at all.

[oneofsix]

Yea I know some is on fuel now...I mean all of it on fuel. If you are using fuel, you are on the road (presumably) so you're getting the benefit of the cover. If it is on vehicles (as now) or on licences, there is the inequity of you pay whether you use or not, the on-hold is too restrictive with the 3 month minimum and because there are likely more vehicles than licences the licence method of levying would entail an increase for everyone. ACC wants X$ no matter how they get it, so it's spread amongst the pool of users. There are plenty of people out there with a licence who seldom drive, so many of them would simply let their licence go, further reducing the pool of potential payers.



Or any licence at all.

I object to the road tax on fuel scam due to paying the road tax when mowing the lawns or running the chainsaw etc, talking local authority road tax btw not the supposed roading fund that disappears into the general govt. fund. But with ACC I guess if it uses petroleum then it is an injury risk so not as much of a rip off.

[jafar]

I see a couple of problems. Lots of peoples have the licence and don't drive or ride but need to retain the licence until they can again. Lots of people drive or ride without the correct licence.

Those that choose to keep a licence would do so anyway , if they are not driving then it is up to them to decide IF it is worth the $$$$ to keep it current.
If someone is driving/riding on the wrong class of licence, so what? So long as the annual fee is paid up then they would still be covered for ACC. The :Police: would probably still ping them for wrong class as they do now.


Yea I know some is on fuel now...I mean all of it on fuel. If you are using fuel, you are on the road (presumably) so you're getting the benefit of the cover. If it is on vehicles (as now) or on licences, there is the inequity of you pay whether you use or not, the on-hold is too restrictive with the 3 month minimum and because there are likely more vehicles than licences the licence method of levying would entail an increase for everyone. ACC wants X$ no matter how they get it, so it's spread amongst the pool of users. There are plenty of people out there with a licence who seldom drive, so many of them would simply let their licence go, further reducing the pool of potential payers.

Or any licence at all.

Your theory fails in a few areas, someone riding a scooter will be paying less than someone who is driving a V8 due to their lower fuel usage per km, but the cost of fixing the scooter rider would be the same or more than the cost of fixing the V8 driver in a similar speed crash.

I'm the 1st to agree that the on-hold system is too restrictive, but it is what it is & if you want to use it then it is up to you to work it to your advantage.

[MSTRS]

But with ACC I guess if it uses petroleum then it is an injury risk so not as much of a rip off.

Plus full cover through fuel gets all the boaties. And, best of all, the offroaders would finally pay more of their share. Let's face it, we know that a substantial number of injury claims from dirtbikers are paid out of the road fund...
The claim form asks "Was a vehicle involved" or something like that.

[avgas]

I see a couple of problems. Lots of peoples have the licence and don't drive or ride but need to retain the licence until they can again. Lots of people drive or ride without the correct licence.
The freeloader theory can be applied to all govt based systems. So do you believe it should be privatized? (ACC)

[James Deuce]

I object to the road tax on fuel scam due to paying the road tax when mowing the lawns or running the chainsaw etc, talking local authority road tax btw not the supposed roading fund that disappears into the general govt. fund. But with ACC I guess if it uses petroleum then it is an injury risk so not as much of a rip off.

Pffft! The biggest cost to ACC is people mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters, and tripping in the shower.

Object all you want. I'd like to offset the cost of owning a bike by adding ACC levies to Home and Contents insurance. I think $1.5 billion a year fixing up dickheads who can't mow their lawn without chopping a finger off is far worse than what motorcyclists cost the country.

[MSTRS]

Your theory fails in a few areas, someone riding a scooter will be paying less than someone who is driving a V8 due to their lower fuel usage per km, but the cost of fixing the scooter rider would be the same or more than the cost of fixing the V8 driver in a similar speed crash.



No mate, my theory doesn't fail, it just highlights another form of inequity. Still fairer for 'most' people tho.
I do understand that as a truckie, you'd be wallet-raped by fuel based, and as a multiple owner of 'big' bikes you'd be laughing with a licence-based levy.
Even with what we used to have (one levy, all the same, no matter what sort of vehicle) there were winners and losers, with some people 'forced' into subsidising others.
The only advantage I can see with licence-based is that those who have the crashes can be more easily targetted, whilst those that manage to not bend themselves may be eligible for some form of no-claim rebate.

[jafar]

The freeloader theory can be applied to all govt based systems. So do you believe it should be privatized? (ACC)

I don't see how privatizing ACC would do us any favours. That would mean more $$ going to corporations & less staying here in NZ

Making the road account one instead of breaking it up into groups & applying the levy based on type is where it has gone wrong. Basing the charge on the licence would give the ability to charge all licence holders the levy . You can only drive one thing @ a time, so why have a system that penalizes people for having more than one mode of transport ?

[MSTRS]

Pffft! The biggest cost to ACC is people mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters, and tripping in the shower.

Object all you want. I'd like to offset the cost of owning a bike by adding ACC levies to Home and Contents insurance. I think $1.5 billion a year fixing up dickheads who can't mow their lawn without chopping a finger off is far worse than what motorcyclists cost the country.

Agreed. But the $2/100 on what we earn goes into the fund that covers such injuries. OK, through the govt we all pay that premium for kids and beneficiaries, but still...
And how many people do not have (and don't need) H+C insurance?

[MSTRS]

Making the road account one instead of breaking it up into groups & applying the levy based on type is where it has gone wrong.
Too bloody right.



Basing the charge on the licence would give the ability to charge all licence holders the levy . You can only drive one thing @ a time, so why have a system that penalizes people for having more than one mode of transport ?
True. But every single vehicle owner would be mightily upset when their levy goes up to compensate for the loss in levvies from multiple vehicles. Why should they subsidise those who choose to own more than one?

It's a conundrum, whatever system of levying is applied.

[jafar]

No mate, my theory doesn't fail, it just highlights another form of inequity. Still fairer for 'most' people tho.
I do understand that as a truckie, you'd be wallet-raped by fuel based, and as a multiple owner of 'big' bikes you'd be laughing with a licence-based levy.
Even with what we used to have (one levy, all the same, no matter what sort of vehicle) there were winners and losers, with some people 'forced' into subsidising others.
The only advantage I can see with licence-based is that those who have the crashes can be more easily targetted, whilst those that manage to not bend themselves may be eligible for some form of no-claim rebate.

Yes as a truckie I do tend to spend a bit more on fuel than most, mind you I work for a supermarket chain & we all know who is paying for the cost increases in the end :bleh:

2 bikes & 2 cars.:shit: I must be barking bloody :mad:

I object to having to pay my hard earned $$ to fix up idiots that can't drive/ride & have the cost of that going up because I happen to have the same type of vehicle as they used to injure themselves with... to make it worse, the ACC figures take no account of WHO was @ fault in a crash, just what kind of vehicle was involved. If they were trying to be even a little bit fair then they would take that information on board & change the levy accordingly.

By placing the levy on the licence those with no claims over a period of time could get a "no claims" discount, the same as insurance companies give, while those that are constantly injuring themselves could have their premiums increased due to the costs they have caused. :violin:

[Scuba_Steve]

How'd this become an ACC thread??? :scratch:

[jafar]

Too bloody right.


True. But every single vehicle owner would be mightily upset when their levy goes up to compensate for the loss in levvies from multiple vehicles. Why should they subsidise those who choose to own more than one?

It's a conundrum, whatever system of levying is applied.

I doubt it would go up by much, they would be paying a compulsory personal accident insurance, not a per vehicle insurance. So the multiple vehicle ownership argument does not apply. The ACC portion of the rego would be gone, so what they lose one way they would make up the other. Those that cost the ACC due to their own negligence or bad luck would find their levy increased while those that have not claimed would get it cheaper . User pays & stupid pays even more :msn-wink:

[SMOKEU]

Your theory fails in a few areas, someone riding a scooter will be paying less than someone who is driving a V8 due to their lower fuel usage per km, but the cost of fixing the scooter rider would be the same or more than the cost of fixing the V8 driver in a similar speed crash.



But the scooter does less damage to the roads, and the modern 4 stroke scooters spew out far fewer emissions than an average fossil fuelled car. Scooters also burn a lot less fossil fuel and contribute less to road congestion. Now I know that ACC don't build the roads, and that ACC doesn't have anything to do with air pollution, but it's still government money.

[MSTRS]

I object to having to pay my hard earned $$ to fix up idiots that can't drive/ride & have the cost of that going up because I happen to have the same type of vehicle as they used to injure themselves with... to make it worse, the ACC figures take no account of WHO was @ fault in a crash, just what kind of vehicle was involved. If they were trying to be even a little bit fair then they would take that information on board & change the levy accordingly.



So do I mate, so do I. And you are right, Fault is not an issue to ACC. It never was. But the minute some tosser got the idea of 'risk', we were fucked.
It would be a stupid person indeed who claimed that bikes do not carry a higher degree of risk in terms of injury and severity of same. But at the end of the day, a little under half of all bike crashes are caused by another vehicle so why shouldn't that class of vehicle carry it's share of the cost to all of us*? That is how it was. It should never have changed.

* Using that logic, since those crashes we have involving a car, that were our fault, seldom cause any injury to those drivers - then we should get lower levies than them.

[oneofsix]

How'd this become an ACC thread??? :scratch:

Because the only message that seems to come anywhere close to uniting all bikers in all our different forms seems to be "ACC is broken" and even then there is disagreement on how and why it is broken, perhaps not the why as that is the politicians fault.

[jafar]

But the scooter does less damage to the roads, and the modern 4 stroke scooters spew out far fewer emissions than an average fossil fuelled car. Scooters also burn a lot less fossil fuel and contribute less to road congestion.

You have a crash situation with a scooter & a V8, which one is more likely to have been injured, the V8 driver or the scooter rider ??


Now I know that ACC don't build the roads, and that ACC doesn't have anything to do with air pollution, but it's still government money.

ACC is NOT the government, it is a state owned enterprise. not the same thing.

[MSTRS]

How'd this become an ACC thread??? :scratch:

Because it's the one thing that is still a very raw issue for so many of us? And Conquistador was asking if there was ONE THING that could unite us.
Trouble is, none of us is united over ACC either, except insofaras many of us have strong views one way or the other about the whole debacle.

[jafar]

So do I mate, so do I. And you are right, Fault is not an issue to ACC. It never was. But the minute some tosser got the idea of 'risk', we were fucked.
It would be a stupid person indeed who claimed that bikes do not carry a higher degree of risk in terms of injury and severity of same. But at the end of the day, a little under half of all bike crashes are caused by another vehicle so why shouldn't that class of vehicle carry it's share of the cost to all of us*? That is how it was. It should never have changed.

* Using that logic, since those crashes we have involving a car, that were our fault, seldom cause any injury to those drivers - then we should get lower levies than them.

Now if it was a licence based system & the levy paid would be the same regardless of type of vehicle . The increases or reductions in ACC levy could then be done on a more personal level. No at fault claims = lower levy's. Multiple at fault claims = higher levy's.

[jafar]

How'd this become an ACC thread??? :scratch:

Evolution, the one thing that came close to uniting motorcycists was & still is the ACC system & it's many failings.

Oddly enough the shirts we all paid out for with "ACC who's next" was the closest we have ever got to being a united force.

It came as a great surprise to many ute owners that they were the next ones to be arse raped by ACC & they didn't know until they went to re register their personal transport. :devil2:

[Scuba_Steve]

Well then while ya'll arguing about how to charge it, I say your all wrong!!! You keep focusing on 1 section of ACC, I say drop the segmented ACC collection & add it all to GST that way everyone uses, everyone pays.
No fault, no blame, no "divide & conquer" system that the Govt is currently using. From the 5yr old buying lollies & drink to the 30yr old buying household items to the 80yr old buying drinks at bingo everyone pays their share.

But I would also extend this & drop ACC altogether in favour for a health system where the whole thing is free, from doctors to hospital all free. Tho that's another story

[oneofsix]

Evolution, the one thing that came close to uniting motorcycists was & still is the ACC system & it's many failings.

Oddly enough the shirts we all paid out for with "ACC who's next" was the closest we have ever got to being a united force.

It came as a great surprise to many ute owners that they were the next ones to be arse raped by ACC & they didn't know until they went to re register their personal transport. :devil2:

so the next uniting message should be "told you so..."?

[jafar]

so the next uniting message should be "told you so..."?

I hope not :laugh:

[jafar]

Well then while ya'll arguing about how to charge it, I say your all wrong!!! You keep focusing on 1 section of ACC, I say drop the segmented ACC collection & add it all to GST that way everyone uses, everyone pays.
No fault, no blame, no "divide & conquer" system that the Govt is currently using. From the 5yr old buying lollies & drink to the 30yr old buying household items to the 80yr old buying drinks at bingo everyone pays their share.

But I would also extend this & drop ACC altogether in favour for a health system where the whole thing is free, from doctors to hospital all free. Tho that's another story

We had that & it didn't work. Although I have no idea why it didn't. Mabey it was so the gubbermint could use the ACC system to scrounge more revenue & to allow for a private medical insurance industry which also pays taxes :devil2:

[Swoop]

Post #175 has all the info.


Plus full cover through fuel gets all the boaties. And, best of all, the offroaders would finally pay more of their share. Let's face it, we know that a substantial number of injury claims from dirtbikers are paid out of the road fund...
The claim form asks "Was a vehicle involved" or something like that.
Unfortunately that group who like to injure themselves, but who do not pay ACC levies, (psychlists) are missed out again.

[jafar]

Post #175 has all the info.


Unfortunately that group who like to injure themselves, but who do not pay ACC levies, (psychlists) are missed out again.

they would be included if the licence system was used. class 7 psychlist :bleh:

[MSTRS]

they would be included if the licence system was used. class 7 psychlist :bleh:

Careful. Their lycra will start 'bunching up'...then they'll come looking for you!!

No, the licence thing won't be a fairer system. Now that I've had a chance to let it percolate - what occurs to me is that the levy will be apportioned on your 'riskiest' class. So we'll get stung again. Lots of people got a class 6 when they were 15 (cheap step-through to replace the bicycle) used 2 wheels for a couple of years, then got a 'sensible vehicle' and never got on 2 wheels again. But the class stays on your licence forever, doesn't it?

[jafar]

Careful. Their lycra will start 'bunching up'...then they'll come looking for you!!

No, the licence thing won't be a fairer system. Now that I've had a chance to let it percolate - what occurs to me is that the levy will be apportioned on your 'riskiest' class. So we'll get stung again. Lots of people got a class 6 when they were 15 (cheap step-through to replace the bicycle) used 2 wheels for a couple of years, then got a 'sensible vehicle' and never got on 2 wheels again. But the class stays on your licence forever, doesn't it?

We all have a licence, one only. it has a unique number , that licence then has a subsection of classes held by the 'owner' of that licence. your licence would get levied @ $xxxx , mine with a few more classes on it would be levied @ the same as yours $xxxx . one licence, one fee, thats it. It doesn't matter which class i'm driving, I can only drive one @ a time anyway.
Remember ACC is personal accident insurance,so why have personal insurance attached to a vehicle?? When you think about it , it's a crazy system.

[MSTRS]

We all have a licence, one only. it has a unique number , that licence then has a subsection of classes held by the 'owner' of that licence. your licence would get levied @ $xxxx , mine with a few more classes on it would be levied @ the same as yours $xxxx . one licence, one fee, thats it. It doesn't matter which class i'm driving, I can only drive one @ a time anyway.


Mate....I never took you to be naive. Trust me when I say that IF it changed to licence-based, we WILL be pinged according to the class/es on that licence. Now that ACC uses risk as a levy-setting factor, sadly that is unlikely to ever go away.



Remember ACC is personal accident insurance,so why have personal insurance attached to a vehicle?? When you think about it , it's a crazy system.

I think this is where ACC came in, originally. One fee from all, for all accident cover and compensation, covered by an addition to general taxation. Didn't take long for the pollies to split it into different funds. So we started paying here, there and somewhere else as well.

[Conquiztador]

How'd this become an ACC thread??? :scratch:

Called "thread hijack". People with an agenda re ACC sees an opportunity to tell the world how they have the solution, and...


Because the only message that seems to come anywhere close to uniting all bikers in all our different forms seems to be "ACC is broken" and even then there is disagreement on how and why it is broken, perhaps not the why as that is the politicians fault.

Nope. You are wrong. The only thing that DID unite us was that the ACC increase was too fucking high! Full stop.


Because it's the one thing that is still a very raw issue for so many of us? And Conquistador was asking if there was ONE THING that could unite us.
Trouble is, none of us is united over ACC either, except insofaras many of us have strong views one way or the other about the whole debacle.

Therefore anything about ACC (apart from a lower fee) will never unite us. Among us we have greenies, neo nazies, hippies, commies, self employed, freezing-work workers, unemployed, students, beneficiaries, and list goes on forever. As a result any nyance of the ACC issue will be represented.

My intention with this thread was to get the riders/bike owners to do some thinking and wind down the issues until we come to a place we can all agree on. There has been a few contributions on here in this thread that could be the one. But sadly the "how should ACC look like in the future" will never be the one. Lets assume that I would at some forseeable future start a "movement" based on a statement that came out of this, I would NEVER allow the setup of ACC to become part fo what I/we would fight for. Only what ALL bikers can agree on. And currently that is the too high fee placed on us.


Evolution, the one thing that came close to uniting motorcycists was & still is the ACC system & it's many failings.

Oddly enough the shirts we all paid out for with "ACC who's next" was the closest we have ever got to being a united force.

It came as a great surprise to many ute owners that they were the next ones to be arse raped by ACC & they didn't know until they went to re register their personal transport. :devil2:

And there is merit in making the message so broad that other interest groups would adopt it and support whatever it stood for.


And lastly: I could (and have) discuss my views on ACC also. But not in this thread as it is not the right place to try to score points. Instead try to come up with something that we could infact use as a broad enough message to get us all to stand up and make a difference.

(Kicking my soapbox in to the corner where it belongs, bloody thing...)

[Ocean1]

Pffft! The biggest cost to ACC is people mowing the lawn

The less time spent mowing the lawns the less chance of an incident I say...

255179

[caseye]

Keep it right where it is Con, lets see if this scurvy lot can actually think on their feet.
I like what Jafar has said about 1 licence one fee For All, and how this would automatically involve all licence holders.
But the line is just there and I'm having to avoid using that word again because like you I don;t think it is going to be the issue that makes your idea fly.
So come on you lot, thinking caps on, no hassling here just ideas and kicking em around.

[mashman]

We all ride, drive, cycle, walk etc... lots of us have accidents, most in the home apparently. Rehab etc... is paid for by ACC irrespective of where and how it happens. That is done by collecting levies from several places. Funny, I could swear that I am just 1 person.

An accident is an accident. I can fall off a ladder, I can smash the car, I can high side the bike, I pay for all of my levies from my salary, as does everyone else. So why not pay a single levy from my salary? After all, I am 1 person. It will stop people from dodging their "responsibility" to all of us by not paying, be it in protest (selfish bastards, making a stand my arse :shifty:) or be it because they're a really great driver and won;t need cover coz it'll never happen to them, and either way, they'll get ACC irrespective of wether they've payed or not. By all means put levies on fuel, but not on the person as they will have already paid from their salary.

Sorry, but I don't have a slogan for that.

[James Deuce]

I've got it!

As Billy Connolly said, "Fuck Them All!"

[schrodingers cat]

Well you're looking for catchy and accurate so how about

United? Not in my lifetime!

[Brian d marge]

Well you're looking for catchy and accurate so how about

United? Not in my lifetime!

Thats a goodun ...

very accurate

Stephen

oh I do have an alternative to todays economic, governmental problems , and remind me to email u about data logging stuff

cant think at the moment , knackered

[mashman]

We're coming to take over. Get out of the fuckin way.

[Katman]

My intention with this thread was to get the riders/bike owners to do some thinking and wind down the issues until we come to a place we can all agree on.


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/144689-Safer-Journeys-for-Motorcycling?p=1130236476#post1130236476

[Sliver]

wow this has gone off topic....Guess im not helping

[Conquiztador]

wow this has gone off topic....Guess im not helping

Welcome to KB

[James Deuce]

Welcome to KB
Where? What?

[Conquiztador]

Where? What?

Totally. And no aliens in sight!

[Scuba_Steve]

Actually, you want 1 word to unite all bikers???

Well here it is... Bikes!!! :yes:

[Conquiztador]

Actually, you want 1 word to unite all bikers???

Well here it is... Bikes!!! :yes:

it is a start. The first point. Where we all agree. But will it get us all to stand up and fight stupid changes and new charges?

[MSTRS]

it is a start. The first point. Where we all agree. But will it get us all to stand up and fight stupid changes and new charges?

Only if it's added to the word 'banned'...

[mashman]

Time for ACC to get its WOF

[TrentNz]

Time for ACC to get its WOF

like that'll ever happen :killingme