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View Full Version : French bikers forced to wear hi-viz clothing from 2013



Bob
12th January 2012, 01:16
French motorcyclists, plus foreign bikers travelling in France, will be forced to wear high-visibility clothing from January 2013. A change to the French version of the Highway Code will make it compulsory for all riders of PTWs in excess of 125cc to wear a reflective item on the upper body covering at least 150cm2.

The requirement applies to rides and pillions and failure to adhere will result in a fine of EUR 68

Maha
12th January 2012, 05:51
First, they started eating snails......now this?

Katman
12th January 2012, 08:04
The writing's on the wall.

nodrog
12th January 2012, 08:13
The writing's on the wall.

yep

254955

vifferman
12th January 2012, 08:18
Merde!
10 characters blah blah

MSTRS
12th January 2012, 08:26
Full details here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/144318-MOTO-NZ-finally-come-up-with-something-for-all-our-money?p=1130232302#post1130232302)

tri boy
12th January 2012, 08:41
The stink of a French man/woman should be enough to notify all road users of there presence, without the need of silly vests.

red mermaid
12th January 2012, 08:42
Surely this can't be so...I mean we are told so many times how repressive NZ rules are and how enlightened European rules are.

nzmikey
12th January 2012, 08:55
:facepalm: we are now all doomed....... as soon as LTSA get wind of this in 2013 we will be doing the same :cry:

EDIT: I think that ALL scooter riders in NZ should wear them since they wear MINIMAL gear at the best of times

skippa1
12th January 2012, 10:10
there is money to be made stitching them on all the 1%'s leather vests:niceone:

Brian d marge
12th January 2012, 10:21
but the frogs may actually do something

stephen

PS my Rukka jacket has hi vz stitched in and you don't really notice it...

stephen

Devil
12th January 2012, 10:25
THey're talking about a reflective patch. Not neccesarily a day-glo item.

What a stupid idea (could be worse). Night time presents the least of the problem, it's the middle of the damn day during perfect visibility that there's an issue of people not looking properly.

misterO
12th January 2012, 11:12
All motorists in France are required to have a Hi Viz vest in their car (and "common sense" dictates that they also have one for every occupant of their car). This reflective-gear-for-motorcycles is likely an extension of that- if motorists "need" it then bikers do, too. It is all very silly and I expected the French to be more sensible than this with their fierce sense of individuality. Radar detectors are illegal there and speed cameras rampant: plans are afoot in France to enlarge the registration plates on bikes to make them easier to photograph. A far more worrisome French regulation is the current one that limits ALL motorcycles to no more than 106BHP. Boo!

James Deuce
12th January 2012, 11:55
I await the temporary collapse of the French transport system and economy with interest.

willytheekid
12th January 2012, 12:16
FFS

yup, were next!

I have a High viz vest! (nerd:weird:..I know), but I only wear it at night, or on long weekends (holidays etc=mad traffic) and if the weather packs in and visibility is shit.
...funnily enough it didn't stop the drunk driver in his 4x4 from punching me off the highway last year?...maybe its defective?:shit: (they ARE mean't to make you impervious right?)

I totally agree with the idea of "if we are forced to wear them...so should all scooters and cyclists!" after all, WE are the ones wearing all the safety gear, yet they are usually wearing bugger all or just....spandex!:sick:

LET THOSE WHO RIDE DECIDE!

steve_t
12th January 2012, 12:33
I guess we'll have to wait and see. If there's no drop in the number of accidents with the vests on, surely we wouldn't adopt it. I guess we'd have to look at their results after at least 5 years though since there could possibly be a coincidental drop or an initial drop that just goes back to normal rates after a while... much like our 4km/h tolerance on public holidays. The first Queen's Birthday weekend was statistically great, but we now see that over a number of periods, the road toll during public holidays has in fact increased! Whether it's to do with the speed tolerance is unlikely. /rant :drinknsin

whowhatwhere
12th January 2012, 12:37
150 square cm is a bit of a stupid measurement as it's such a small patch.

george formby
12th January 2012, 12:52
Ooh the irony. This time last year they banned the Burqa, now enforcing hi viz. Maybe next year stockings & suspenders will be made compulsory.:eek:

steve_t
12th January 2012, 12:53
150 square cm is a bit of a stupid measurement as it's such a small patch.

That's about the size of an L plate right?

MSTRS
12th January 2012, 12:54
150 square cm is a bit of a stupid measurement as it's such a small patch.

Which was my point in an earlier post...when the new law proves to be ineffective, there won't be a whole rethink, they'll just increase the size. Rinse/repeat. Until they bring in the full dayglo bodysuit.
And when THAT doesn't work....

Scuba_Steve
12th January 2012, 13:23
Which was my point in an earlier post...when the new law proves to be ineffective, there won't be a whole rethink, they'll just increase the size. Rinse/repeat. Until they bring in the full dayglo bodysuit.
And when THAT doesn't work....

insert the stick a-little at a time, the idiots don't notice then.

steve_t
12th January 2012, 13:25
insert the stick a-little at a time, the idiots don't notice then.

Nek minit... frog's boiled

Voltaire
12th January 2012, 13:39
The French banned the Burqa on religious grounds.....so French bikers should start up a religion ( club) make the hi viz vest the costume of choice and then the Govt will ban it....:laugh:

Maybe KB should register as a church....say and we all 'donate' our rego money...KB pays your rego and claim it back as religions are tax free ....

:niceone:

SPman
12th January 2012, 14:28
I thought this was only a proposal, at this stage - it hasn't been passed into law yet!

I'm with James on this one......

MSTRS
12th January 2012, 14:31
I thought this was only a proposal, at this stage - it hasn't been passed into law yet!



It has in la belle France...

Oblivion
12th January 2012, 15:20
Ill wear one at night. That's when I feel that it does help me be visible.

During the day, No. If they can't see me, I move so they can see me. (Within safety boundaries) I travel around 15m behind moving traffic. I don't split through traffic, I always check my mirrors, and head check frequently, I look for hazards.

If I can't be seen then, They must be :sleep:

pete376403
12th January 2012, 22:05
Not all hi vis is bad. The dayglo yellow and orange ones are a bit lurid, but some jackets have reflective material that looks good 'n' black by day but lights up when illuminated, as shown. These pics taken about a minute apart, one with and one without flash.

Bob
12th January 2012, 22:37
It has in la belle France... Exactly. The European Union (an oxymoron if ever I heard one) is debating making this an EU-wide regulation. But member states can apply more restrictive legislation should they choose; in this case, the French have jumped the gun and make it law.

cave weta
12th January 2012, 22:44
This will absolutely KILL Harley Davidson sales..........




unless of course they come with tassles and matching gayglo arseless chaps.

swbarnett
13th January 2012, 23:59
Ill wear one at night. That's when I feel that it does help me be visible.
Therein lies the problem. Even some bikers don't get the point that "Correlation does not mean causation".

While there are a significant number of us that wear them by choice we haven't got a show.

Now is the time to burn the vest. The only way we're ever going to fight this kind of shit is to band together and refuse to wear them.

DangerMice
14th January 2012, 00:28
in excess of 125cc

50cc wins again heh heh
:Pokey:

RDJ
14th January 2012, 03:33
The French banned the Burqa on religious grounds.....so French bikers should start up a religion ( club) make the hi viz vest the costume of choice and then the Govt will ban it....:laugh:

:niceone:

"Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now" (was that the Blues Brothers?)

The Church of Speed. I pray with an open throttle. If you do not allow me full throttle, my soul will be in jeopardy....

haydes55
14th January 2012, 06:14
The French banned the Burqa on religious grounds.....so French bikers should start up a religion ( club) make the hi viz vest the costume of choice and then the Govt will ban it....:laugh:

Maybe KB should register as a church....say and we all 'donate' our rego money...KB pays your rego and claim it back as religions are tax free ....

:niceone:

You make a whole lotta sence to me!:niceone: Burt Munro is our Jesus, he preached to us about the God of Speed! :scooter:

blue rider
14th January 2012, 06:54
"Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now" (was that the Blues Brothers?)

The Church of Speed. I pray with an open throttle. If you do not allow me full throttle, my soul will be in jeopardy....

i can subscribe to that, ...offerings to the blessed ones are beer and a can of gas?

Maha
14th January 2012, 07:18
You make a whole lotta sence to me!:niceone: Burt Munro is our Jesus, he preached to us about the God of Speed! :scooter:

Really?....His name only become known to alot of people....only a few years ago, thanks to the Movie.

haydes55
14th January 2012, 08:41
Really?....His name only become known to alot of people....only a few years ago, thanks to the Movie.

Yea that's when I first heard of him. Lack of publicity doesn't mean lack of skill and dedication. Andrew Stroud, John Britten etc. can be prophets. Once a year we go to "church" at Burt Munro in Invercargill, is there any other rally/speedway/beach racing/hill climb/street race under any other Kiwis name?

Kickaha
14th January 2012, 09:05
Really?....His name only become known to alot of people....only a few years ago, thanks to the Movie.

It was already known to a lot of people before that (perhaps not quite as many as after the movie though)

Katman
14th January 2012, 10:40
Therein lies the problem. Even some bikers don't get the point that "Correlation does not mean causation".

While there are a significant number of us that wear them by choice we haven't got a show.

Now is the time to burn the vest. The only way we're ever going to fight this kind of shit is to band together and refuse to wear them.

While I can normally pass your postings off as nothing more than mildly amusing libertarian raving, to decry the actions of those motorcyclists who voluntarily wear hi-viz as fucking it up for the rest of us, proves you to be a fucking moron.

scumdog
14th January 2012, 14:54
w.

Now is the time to burn the vest. The only way we're ever going to fight this kind of shit is to band together and refuse to wear them.

Refuse to ride motorbikes.

That will REALLY fuck the safety-nazis eh:devil2:

thehovel
14th January 2012, 20:25
Refuse to ride motorbikes.

That will REALLY fuck the safety-nazis eh:devil2:

Your signuture has been noted!!!!
:jerry::jerry:

swbarnett
14th January 2012, 21:02
Refuse to ride motorbikes.

That will REALLY fuck the safety-nazis eh:devil2:
I don't know where this came from???

This is just silly. I have never suggested not riding. That's the exclusive domain of Katman and his ilk. What I'm suggesting is fighting an assumption that is based on flawed studies and emotional scare-mongering.

swbarnett
14th January 2012, 21:09
While I can normally pass your postings off as nothing more than mildly amusing libertarian raving,
I am no libertarian. They believe in "every man for themselves". I believe "one for all and all for one".

[QUOTE=Katman;1130234450]to decry the actions of those motorcyclists who voluntarily wear hi-viz as fucking it up for the rest of us, proves you to be a fucking moron.
I do not decry their actions. In the spirit of tolerance, if they want to wear hi-vis all power to them. What I decry is the reasoning. If you can give me a reason for wearing hi-vis other than the mistaken belief that it will make the rider safer (and, no, I don't believe they're a fasion statement - at least not for the majority of wearers) then please enlighten me.

Katman
14th January 2012, 21:41
I have never suggested not riding. That's the exclusive domain of Katman and his ilk.

:facepalm:

swbarnett
15th January 2012, 00:16
:facepalm:
Forgive me if I've misunderstood but aren't you the one advocating a sedate riding style? Conforming to the expectations of the rest of society? Might as well be driving a car (almost).

Katman
15th January 2012, 06:23
:facepalm: :facepalm:

scracha
15th January 2012, 08:01
A change to the French version of the Highway Code will make it compulsory for all riders of PTWs in excess of 125cc to wear a reflective item on the upper body covering at least 150cm2.

The requirement applies to rides and pillions and failure to adhere will result in a fine of EUR 68

a) France is full of EU mandated laws. Unlike the UK, the French citizens generally choose to completely ignore the dafter ones. As do the gendarmerie. The French are certainly not like the sheeple here.
b) 150cm^2. For your average fat biker that's a 1cm thick strip on your jacket. Most cordura gear probably has this already.

BMWST?
15th January 2012, 08:29
150cm 2 is a square of 12.25cm.It doesnt really sai if this reflective surface is evenly distributed or if there is supposed to be 150 cm 2 "viewable" from any angle

Scuba_Steve
15th January 2012, 08:49
Forgive me if I've misunderstood but aren't you the one advocating a sedate riding style? Conforming to the expectations of the rest of society? Might as well be driving a car (almost).

Yea I have no idea why Katmans on a bike either, with all his rating & ravings.
Hell the extent he sometimes takes it I'm not sure why he's on the road at all...

BMWST?
15th January 2012, 08:59
Yea I have no idea why Katmans on a bike either, with all his rating & ravings.
Hell the extent he sometimes takes it I'm not sure why he's on the road at all...
i dont have a problem with his message its the delivery that i dislike(i have him on ignore)

Scuba_Steve
15th January 2012, 09:13
i dont have a problem with his message its the delivery that i dislike(i have him on ignore)

I don't mind him being round, it's a laugh. But the extremes he takes his message I seriously wonder why he has a bike? & sometimes when he's really going for it, why he even dares put his safety at risk by going out onto the road regardless of mode of transport.

Kickaha
15th January 2012, 09:26
Forgive me if I've misunderstood but aren't you the one advocating a sedate riding style? Conforming to the expectations of the rest of society? Might as well be driving a car (almost).
There's a big difference from a"sedate riding style" to "I have never suggested not riding. That's the exclusive domain of Katman and his ilk"

All he has really ever said is don't ride like a cock and expect there to be no consequences of your actions whether it be to the individual or motorcyclists as a group

Katman
15th January 2012, 15:15
i dont have a problem with his message its the delivery that i dislike(i have him on ignore)

The delivery has changed considerably over the years.

You're just too stupid to recognise it.

steve_t
15th January 2012, 15:29
The delivery has changed considerably over the years.

You're just too stupid to recognise it.

:laugh::laugh:

Owl
15th January 2012, 15:32
(i have him on ignore)


You're just too stupid to recognise it.

He can't hear you :rolleyes:

popelli
15th January 2012, 19:54
a) France is full of EU mandated laws. Unlike the UK, the French citizens generally choose to completely ignore the dafter ones. As do the gendarmerie. The French are certainly not like the sheeple here.
b) 150cm^2. For your average fat biker that's a 1cm thick strip on your jacket. Most cordura gear probably has this already.


unfortunately if they do enforce it its points on your licence, hikes in insurance premiums

based in the uk I like to get across to europe once and year and do a bike rally, was planning to do the HDC super rally in Germany, I have cancelled this and will do a rally in France instead, and this will be the last time I ever ride in France.

I have no personal objection to dayglo clothing, but I have a very strong objection to being forced to wear it.

Problem is France has too much say in the EU and this is the thin edge of the wedge

Anybody who is naive enough to think this is ok think again, they are trying to outlaw any performance modifications, long forks, and bikes over 7 years old in cities in various different EU regulations

The end objective to to outlaw motorcycling under the guise of health and safety

MSTRS
16th January 2012, 08:29
150cm^2. For your average fat biker that's a 1cm thick strip on your jacket. Most cordura gear probably has this already.

No - it isn't.
150cm2 is a strip 1.5m long by 1cm wide. Or 'compressed' to another shape, it's 15cm by 10cm (6" x 4")

swbarnett
16th January 2012, 12:24
There's a big difference from a"sedate riding style" to "I have never suggested not riding. That's the exclusive domain of Katman and his ilk"
Agree completely. The second comment came from Katman's assertion that we should ride in such a way as to conform to the expectations of the rest of society. I've spent the better part of the past 40 some years trying to do exactly that over ecery aspect of my life. Believe me, it's not a good idea.


All he has really ever said is don't ride like a cock and expect there to be no consequences of your actions whether it be to the individual or motorcyclists as a group
I have absolutely no problem with this message. I support it wholeheartedly. What I also support is someone's right to spirited riding which may appear to some as "riding like a cock".

BMWST?
16th January 2012, 18:52
No - it isn't.
150cm2 is a strip 1.5m long by 1cm wide. Or 'compressed' to another shape, it's 15cm by 10cm (6" x 4")

so i wonder how long a strip would be to go from cuff to cuff across the top of the shoulders...a bloody sight longer than 1.5 m i would say...voila 150 cm sq

blue rider
16th January 2012, 20:37
rough translation:

The inter-ministerial committee of the road safety of May 11, 2011 decided to make compulsory the wearing of reflecting clothing (waistcoat or wind-breaker) for all the drivers of two-wheeled vehicles motorized of 125 Cm3 and more. The helmets of the motorcyclists carry already reflective elements and those on two-wheeled vehicles must circulate with dipped headlights. The obligation of the wearing of a fluo waist coat will thus not allow to improve protection of the drivers in the event of a fall l and even less help to avoid this one.
To lower the VAT on the safety equipments would be much more useful…


link: http://www.ffmc.asso.fr/spip.php?article2187

also manifestations are planned, and as from memory when the frenchies strike, no one goes anywhere. good fun to be had.
the interesting bit however of this law is that it also applies to visitors to France on bikes and those just transiting through.

MSTRS
17th January 2012, 07:53
so i wonder how long a strip would be to go from cuff to cuff across the top of the shoulders...a bloody sight longer than 1.5 m i would say...voila 150 cm sq

Perhaps you missed the bit about 'most cordura gear has this already' ?
It doesn't. What it does often have is reflective piping on some seams. Piping is not 1cm wide. YT's Orina brand jacket has as much or more piping as I've ever seen on any cordura, and it's approx .25cm wide.
Incidentally, I'm reasonably average at 180cm tall and I have a cuff-to-cuff span of 145cm...

Swoop
17th January 2012, 08:29
Forgive me if I've misunderstood but aren't you the one advocating a sedate riding style?
He is more of a "time and place" sort of guy.
Unfortunately with the amount of demerits he had accumulated, he appeared to be quite good at doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, in the vicinity of a policeman.

Possibly even doing these things in a public place, giving bikers a bad name by doing so.

Dadpole
17th January 2012, 11:00
This 150cm3 debate is academic I suspect. In NZ I expect TPTB to push Hi-vis jackets as there is already a standard existing, rather than come up with any new standards for bike jackets.

BMWST?
17th January 2012, 12:13
Perhaps you missed the bit about 'most cordura gear has this already' ?
It doesn't. What it does often have is reflective piping on some seams. Piping is not 1cm wide. YT's Orina brand jacket has as much or more piping as I've ever seen on any cordura, and it's approx .25cm wide.
Incidentally, I'm reasonably average at 180cm tall and I have a cuff-to-cuff span of 145cm...

i did miss the bit you mention....:argh:.I was thinking fingertip to fingertip

ukusa
17th January 2012, 16:41
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/June/jun3011-riders-urged-join-hi-vis-demo/

this from mid 2011 shows protests mean fuckall.

I await the day when all bikes also need to be painted in day-glo colours

Katman
17th January 2012, 17:07
Unfortunately with the amount of demerits he had accumulated, he appeared to be quite good at doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, in the vicinity of a policeman.


Three months to go - and counting.

scracha
17th January 2012, 19:38
No - it isn't.
150cm2 is a strip 1.5m long by 1cm wide. Or 'compressed' to another shape, it's 15cm by 10cm (6" x 4")

Oh ffs, it's like being on kiwifuckingpedantic.co.nz Ok...you average lardy arsed male kiwi biker is probably about 38" around the waist, this giving a 1.57cm thick strip.

Yay...I can do primary school maths.


Back on topic.....does it say the 150cm strip has to be worn on the OUTSIDE of your other gear? Maybe I should start selling reflective underpants.

pete376403
17th January 2012, 20:08
See post 27. Incidentally all this reflectivity didn't stop a van turning across the fron of the guy in the photo, breaking a leg and writing off his R1. Headlight on (hard wired) too.

MSTRS
18th January 2012, 08:06
Oh ffs, it's like being on kiwifuckingpedantic.co.nz Ok...you average lardy arsed male kiwi biker is probably about 38" around the waist, this giving a 1.57cm thick strip.

Yay...I can do primary school maths.


Back on topic.....does it say the 150cm strip has to be worn on the OUTSIDE of your other gear? Maybe I should start selling reflective underpants.

Bad mood, Jummay? Someone steal your haggis?
What the decree says is...

The decree provides that drivers and passengers of motorized two-wheelers (2WD) of more than 125 cm3 from 1st January 2013 must wear a retro-reflecting device with a total surface area of at least 150 cm ². The reflective device must also correspond either to French standards or other standards to ensure an equivalent level of safety. These standards are not published, although the characteristics are to be established by order of the Minister for Road Safety.

If the reflective device is not built into the original garment, it can be superimposed (we assume fitted/worn) by any means.

The device must be worn on the upper body, with the exception of the helmet, from the belt line of the shoulders, so as to be visible to other road users.

It must be worn when the vehicle is running or when the vehicle is being fixed on the roadway, or as the result of an emergency stop.

I don't have the actual French law, just what Right to Ride EU is saying about it.
It would seem that the French govt is concerned about night-time visibility by enacting this law. But, just like here, it will be just another imposition on riders, and a waste of time. The French already have to have reflective panels on their helmets (4 of them), and if they are so effective where's the need to go further?

The term 'retro-reflective' simply means that if a light is directed at it, it will reflect that light by appearing to light up itself. There is no mention of a specific colour, or that it must be day-glo, etc. Most reflective panels/piping are a dull greyish colour? Certainly are on the cordura gear we have, and running shoes, that sort of thing. Not exactly intrusive, visually.

AFAIK the process is the same as reflective sign vinyl (known as Engineering grade)...a layer of colour, covered with powdered glass and all sealed under a clear layer. Cop cars are covered in the stuff. Any colour is possible, including black (although it is more a very dark charcoal, and when it 'lights up', it is as a whitish glow. Other colours tend to reflect in whatever colour they are.