Wilbers rear shock tuning?

[Padmei]

I am after some advice on high & low compression adjustment
I have a Wilbers rear shock on my bmwR80GS & when I first fitted it ( a few months ago) the ride was very harsh - I was unsure if that was the way it was supposed to feel due to my old shock being very spongy & pogoing a lot. I mucked around with the high speed compression until I felt it wasn't too bad however I have some time now to set it properly.



According to the supplier (beemershop in the states) I should have 50mm of rider sag & between 17 -25mm (static?) sag with the bike just sitting normally without me on it.
I have wound the preload to 50mm & the static sag is 20mm so that's within the specs given to me.

When I hit a pothole it nearly causes my kidneys to vomit out my ears so I would like to solve that.
Is it high speed compression that I need to adjust for that & if so should it be opened to ease the initial jarring or closed? I am also aware that hi & lo should not be more than 5 clicks apart.

[pete376403]

Sounds like its knackered. Send it to me with $100 and I'll replace it with a good, low milage KLR unit

[Padmei]

oooh tempting.
I miss the suspension settings on my KLR - drop the bike -pick it up - drop the bike & repeat

[Robert Taylor]

I am after some advice on high & low compression adjustment
I have a Wilbers rear shock on my bmwR80GS & when I first fitted it ( a few months ago) the ride was very harsh - I was unsure if that was the way it was supposed to feel due to my old shock being very spongy & pogoing a lot. I mucked around with the high speed compression until I felt it wasn't too bad however I have some time now to set it properly.



According to the supplier (beemershop in the states) I should have 50mm of rider sag & between 17 -25mm (static?) sag with the bike just sitting normally without me on it.
I have wound the preload to 50mm & the static sag is 20mm so that's within the specs given to me.

When I hit a pothole it nearly causes my kidneys to vomit out my ears so I would like to solve that.
Is it high speed compression that I need to adjust for that & if so should it be opened to ease the initial jarring or closed? I am also aware that hi & lo should not be more than 5 clicks apart.

Maybe ( very cynically ) Beemershop will fly out and sort it for you?Thats the value of LOCAL sales and service. Send me an e-mail to robert@kss.net.nz and I will send you some setup info and tips.

[nzspokes]

I am after some advice on high & low compression adjustment
I have a Wilbers rear shock on my bmwR80GS & when I first fitted it ( a few months ago) the ride was very harsh - I was unsure if that was the way it was supposed to feel due to my old shock being very spongy & pogoing a lot. I mucked around with the high speed compression until I felt it wasn't too bad however I have some time now to set it properly.



According to the supplier (beemershop in the states) I should have 50mm of rider sag & between 17 -25mm (static?) sag with the bike just sitting normally without me on it.
I have wound the preload to 50mm & the static sag is 20mm so that's within the specs given to me.

When I hit a pothole it nearly causes my kidneys to vomit out my ears so I would like to solve that.
Is it high speed compression that I need to adjust for that & if so should it be opened to ease the initial jarring or closed? I am also aware that hi & lo should not be more than 5 clicks apart.

That is high speed, its about shaft speed of the shock. So if you hit a pothole the shaft is moving at high speed. So you need to open that adjustment up a bit.

[Robert Taylor]

This thread raises an issue we come across all the time. That being so many people think you can purchase items such as ( but not restricted to ) suspension units, take them out of the box, fit and all will be a land of milk and honey from this ''box sale''. All too often that is not the case and it is no different for my beloved Swedish product.

I have absolutely no doubt that Wilbers is an excellent product and a lot are sold in Europe where there will be backup for them and people skilled at optimising them for the road conditions there. But if you purchase such an item offshore and there is no local distributor with access direct to the factory and trained proffessionals to take care of it all you are then automatically on the back foot.

So the suspension unit is only as good as the installed settings and those internal settings may be not so ideal for our challenging road conditions, irrespective of where the external adjusters are set. We have this situation from time to time with some of the Ohlins suspension listings, where that is so we change the settings before they leave the warehouse. If its a new model without a lot of history and the customer is not completely happy we undertake to change those settings at no further charge excepting courier recovery fees. The same applies for spring exchange if required soon after purchase. The big difference here is that we are in the same country providing old world service, not in another hemisphere!

With respect to that high speed adjuster NZ Spokes is correct, back it off ( anticlockwise ) to allow it to better absorb the ''spike bumps'' that our roads serve up with regularity. Adjustment of the low speed compression adjuster can be a little counter-intuitive, if you back it out too far the initial action of the suspension actually becomes sloppy and because there is then so much bypass bleed the point at which the compression shim stack opens is actually delayed. There is always an optimum bleed clicker setting for initial chassis control / composure and that sweet spot of clicker response will at the most only be 2-3 clicks either side of the standard factory setting. If it is out of range then the shock needs revalving! Bear in mind also that the compression adjusters are ''gates'' for oil flow path into the reservoir, that oil flow being shaft displacement only, representing only 12-13% of total damping control. So for all reasons stated in this paragraph terms such as ''fully adjustable'' are a marketing lie. As is a statement such as ''30 clicks of compression adjustment'' So what, only about 6 of those clicks are actually useful!

Spring rate even though some of the numbers may appear to be ''okay'' could be a little firm. It would be interesting to know what rate is fitted and what your personal stats and loading scenarios are.

[Robert Taylor]

Be attentive also to rebound click setting, dont have the rebound return speed too slow! As a general rule of thumb the rebound damping should be set so that the rear end returns as quickly as possible when you statically push upon it, but not so quick that it aftercycles like one of those dreadful mid 60s to 70s Cadillac cars.
Over slow rebound is one of the biggest contributors to HARSHNESS, loss of mechanical grip and ultimately, crashing.

[F5 Dave]

So why one wonders. . .? Why do suppliers of decent suspension, having cracked the technical hurtle of providing variable damping in relation to shaft speed, - why do they set the high speed comm to as stiff - that they really didn’t need to make such a complex device in the first place?

Ok that’s an oversimplification , but it seems every time I read a test of, for example the ‘R’ model of a bike with the Ohlins they praise the suspension control but wibble on about how hard it is over bumps. Presumably they specified the damping for the suspension supplier to supply.

My GasGas’s have always come too harsh in the front, with WP or Marzoc. Ok this is where we can say that different conditions & expert riders that are much faster than me etc etc, but hell teeth! Apparently the 6 day bikes are another 2 levels harder again!

These bikes are sold to average people & surely they have wet tree roots to deflect tyres off somewhere in Spain? Or rocks. They have rocks.

These components are being altered to suit our conditions by specialists all the time and clearly don’t have to be harsh, quite the opposite. But I’m staggered that they aren’t closer from the get-go.

[Drew]

So why one wonders. . .? Why do suppliers of decent suspension, having cracked the technical hurtle of providing variable damping in relation to shaft speed, - why do they set the high speed comm to as stiff - that they really didn’t need to make such a complex device in the first place?

Ok that’s an oversimplification , but it seems every time I read a test of, for example the ‘R’ model of a bike with the Ohlins they praise the suspension control but wibble on about how hard it is over bumps. Presumably they specified the damping for the suspension supplier to supply.

My GasGas’s have always come too harsh in the front, with WP or Marzoc. Ok this is where we can say that different conditions & expert riders that are much faster than me etc etc, but hell teeth! Apparently the 6 day bikes are another 2 levels harder again!

These bikes are sold to average people & surely they have wet tree roots to deflect tyres off somewhere in Spain? Or rocks. They have rocks.

These components are being altered to suit our conditions by specialists all the time and clearly don’t have to be harsh, quite the opposite. But I’m staggered that they aren’t closer from the get-go.Perhaps due to different spring rates, for different markets.

I dunno how they work out what spring to put on each markets bikes, but I'm told (and this has to be taken with a grain of salt considering the un named source, which is not hard to guess), they can be very different.

The right spring is hugely important, you know you have the right one when both your static, and rider sags are in the tollerances at the same time. From there you can play with damping. A re valve without the correct springs, is money only spent half as well as it could have.

Oh yeah, adjusting the bleeder valves (the clickers), is not the same as re valving. The only thing it has in common with what the shims do, is that they are both effecing the fluid....just well friggin differently.

[F5 Dave]

yeah for low volume manufacturers like GasGas, TM, even Triumph, although they are not that small these days, I suspect all thier models will be pretty close if not identical for all markets. Spanish & Italians aren't that big as a race, despite the yummy food. Brits increasing despite thier dreary food. That still doesn't account for the stupid soft .6 springs on my Tiger.

[Padmei]

Thanks for your replies.

Robert as you are no doubt aware I contacted you re a price on an Ohlins to replace my crappy rear shock. You were very helpful with your recommendation re which one would be more suitable & I appreciate your time taken to do this.
However my enquiry ended with a comment that I would like to ride up & have you finetune it. Your reply was that any further on site work would not be necessary as the clicker settings were very close [to what I need I assume].

At the same time I also contacted the Australian supplier of Wilbers -Greg who, like yourself, has a great reputation. I got the impression from him as well as my research from the internet that both shocks (wilbers & ohlins) came from the factory specifically set up for the rider's weight, purpose & road conditions.

Both Wilbers & Ohlins are excellent products - both have their fans & unfortunately both have left riders stranded in the middle of nowhere when they have blown- No worries nothing is perfect:yes:- I like the look & colour of Wilbers better than ohlins & also they're fractionally cheaper so I'll get Wilbers.

Armed with that I got the spreadsheet out & worked out the most beneficial purchase price would be from Beemershop in the States ( Robert also has a great reputation).

I bought on price & price alone. My potential suppliers were reputable experts with a proven background & as far as I was lead to believe there shouldn't be any need for any further work on the shock itself apart from twiddling screws. Had you told me that there may be a need to change shims or valves etc to get the product right for me then local support/ backup would have been weighted more heavily in my decision.

Had there been a NZ Wilbers supplier I would prob have bought of them

As far as road conditions being that different to Europe i'm sure they have supplied enough of these to GS owners to realise they're not going to be ridden on highways all the time.

Anyway back to the shock itself & my perceptions of it. After my other soft shock this may actually be ok & that's the way they're supposed to feel. It's not a cutting edge bike & i ride like a nana so performance isn't that critical however comfort is a big part of my life:innocent: When I ride another well set up airhead I will have a better comparison.

I will keep it backed off & maybe when I plan a trip to Wellywood & if you have time to have a quick squiz, you could give me some recommendations (consultancy fee applies of course)

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks for your replies.

Robert as you are no doubt aware I contacted you re a price on an Ohlins to replace my crappy rear shock. You were very helpful with your recommendation re which one would be more suitable & I appreciate your time taken to do this.
However my enquiry ended with a comment that I would like to ride up & have you finetune it. Your reply was that any further on site work would not be necessary as the clicker settings were very close [to what I need I assume].

At the same time I also contacted the Australian supplier of Wilbers -Greg who, like yourself, has a great reputation. I got the impression from him as well as my research from the internet that both shocks (wilbers & ohlins) came from the factory specifically set up for the rider's weight, purpose & road conditions.

Both Wilbers & Ohlins are excellent products - both have their fans & unfortunately both have left riders stranded in the middle of nowhere when they have blown- No worries nothing is perfect:yes:- I like the look & colour of Wilbers better than ohlins & also they're fractionally cheaper so I'll get Wilbers.

Armed with that I got the spreadsheet out & worked out the most beneficial purchase price would be from Beemershop in the States ( Robert also has a great reputation).

I bought on price & price alone. My potential suppliers were reputable experts with a proven background & as far as I was lead to believe there shouldn't be any need for any further work on the shock itself apart from twiddling screws. Had you told me that there may be a need to change shims or valves etc to get the product right for me then local support/ backup would have been weighted more heavily in my decision.

Had there been a NZ Wilbers supplier I would prob have bought of them

As far as road conditions being that different to Europe i'm sure they have supplied enough of these to GS owners to realise they're not going to be ridden on highways all the time.

Anyway back to the shock itself & my perceptions of it. After my other soft shock this may actually be ok & that's the way they're supposed to feel. It's not a cutting edge bike & i ride like a nana so performance isn't that critical however comfort is a big part of my life:innocent: When I ride another well set up airhead I will have a better comparison.

I will keep it backed off & maybe when I plan a trip to Wellywood & if you have time to have a quick squiz, you could give me some recommendations (consultancy fee applies of course)

Of course the problem with forums such as this is the identity of those posting is quite often highly anonymous. I really had absolutely no idea who you were and it will likely have been several thousand enquiries ago.

I would have told you that no final optimisation was neccessary as we have sold a lot of that listing over the years and have not had to revalve one of them. Its a very well developed suspension unit, out of the box. If it needed optimisation I would have been equally forthright in telling you same.

The reality is that in the main markets ( North America and Northern Europe) they have a much higher proportion of well groomed roads that dont constantly challenge suspension as it does here. Riding is usually seasonal and the much less time that is spent riding on B grade
roads hardly becomes a concern on the radar screen. Here its a major preoccupation and the valving and/or springing in that Wilbers shock is ( reading between the lines ) calibrated for smoother roads. We get that also with the occasional Ohlins listing but of course we are on hand to back up and optimise what we sell in the market we are appointed to look after.

Maybe its an old fashioned sentiment but if there is no distributor and backup infrastructure for product then those selling from another country will have absolutely no idea of our local conditions. This is a little different to buying books or CDs off the net. But you have made your decision and had freedom of choice.

[Robert Taylor]

So why one wonders. . .? Why do suppliers of decent suspension, having cracked the technical hurtle of providing variable damping in relation to shaft speed, - why do they set the high speed comm to as stiff - that they really didn’t need to make such a complex device in the first place?

Ok that’s an oversimplification , but it seems every time I read a test of, for example the ‘R’ model of a bike with the Ohlins they praise the suspension control but wibble on about how hard it is over bumps. Presumably they specified the damping for the suspension supplier to supply.

My GasGas’s have always come too harsh in the front, with WP or Marzoc. Ok this is where we can say that different conditions & expert riders that are much faster than me etc etc, but hell teeth! Apparently the 6 day bikes are another 2 levels harder again!

These bikes are sold to average people & surely they have wet tree roots to deflect tyres off somewhere in Spain? Or rocks. They have rocks.

These components are being altered to suit our conditions by specialists all the time and clearly don’t have to be harsh, quite the opposite. But I’m staggered that they aren’t closer from the get-go.

2 examples from an Ohlins perspective, oem supply to a bike manufacturer

1) When the original Ducati 1098 was in prototype form Ohlins had a very well developed rear shock spec for it. But at the ''eleventh hour'' just before first production Ducati changed the link ( with a progression curve from hell ) and didnt change the shock spec to work in unison with it, much to Ohlins protests. Ducati in their totally pig headed way said its ok, and its not ok! ( whichever shock brand is in it ) the link curve is an absolute balls up. Despite how good the bones of the suspension units are its only as good as its settings. Ducati dictate the settings. I was told this directly by Troy Baylis's suspension engineer.

2) Aprilia RSV4 with Ohlins suspension. The shock must have been developed by Max Biaggi riding on a billiard table surface. Its is RIGID to ridiculous extremes. We revalve softer even for track use. Again the Aprilia factory and their test riders dictate the settings.

Yes, I shake my head also

[dazzler]

Over slow rebound is one of the biggest contributors to HARSHNESS, loss of mechanical grip and ultimately, crashing.

But that nice warm feeling a lot of people need (Or think they do) from having too much low speed rebound dailed in is worth it right ;)

But theres a lot of people that fall into that trap when they first start playing with things.