Is it too much to move from a 250 to 1000 right after getting fulls?

[WillskE]

just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?

[p.dath]

just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?

You;re asking a question with no right or wrong, black or white answer - so expect a lot of different responses.

You have a Hyosung GT250R. So I assume you are looking at more sportier road bikes and that you don't intend on taking a lot of pillions or luggage around (aka, excess weight).

So the main difference within one brand between a 600 and a 1000 is power. They both have similar weights, sizes, etc. A lot of people will simply suggest you take each for a test ride - seems reasonable.

Some of the answer may be to do with your own confidence level. Definitely take a bike you feel confident and happy about riding over one that you don't.

Some of the answer may be to do with your own skill level. A 600 may be more forgiving of throttle errors (especially grabbing a handful) than a 1000.


Personally I ride a 600. I am a bit risk adverse, and I like the idea of knowing I can grab a handful of throttle and don't have to worry about spinning up the rear. I feel confident on a 600, and I don't feel that way towards a 1000. But that's me, and my personal level of development. Yours may be different.

[WillskE]

You;re asking a question with no right or wrong, black or white answer - so expect a lot of different responses.

You have a Hyosung GT250R. So I assume you are looking at more sportier road bikes and that you don't intend on taking a lot of pillions or luggage around (aka, excess weight).

So the main difference within one brand between a 600 and a 1000 is power. They both have similar weights, sizes, etc. A lot of people will simply suggest you take each for a test ride - seems reasonable.

Some of the answer may be to do with your own confidence level. Definitely take a bike you feel confident and happy about riding over one that you don't.

Some of the answer may be to do with your own skill level. A 600 may be more forgiving of throttle errors (especially grabbing a handful) than a 1000.


Personally I ride a 600. I am a bit risk adverse, and I like the idea of knowing I can grab a handful of throttle and don't have to worry about spinning up the rear. I feel confident on a 600, and I don't feel that way towards a 1000. But that's me, and my personal level of development. Yours may be different.

havent really thought about it like this at all.. derp --" thanks

[Gremlin]

Urgh... plenty of threads on this already.

Simply put, yes, the bike only goes as fast as your right hand tells it to (heard that plenty enough). However, the bike (600 or 1000) is quite capable of accelerating faster than you can initially comprehend. Your skills won't match it's ability, and I have seen plenty not succeed in stepping from 250 to 1000.

However, I have also seen the odd ones step up fine, but it also depends what you step to. A Hornet 900 for example is very different to a sports 1000.

Best bet... no. Don't make such a big jump, it's easier to learn the skills without the huge chunk of horsepower complicating things. A well ridden 600 can be faster than a 1000 in some situations anyway.

[TrentNz]

as gremlin said. the throttle only twists so far. you'd be surprised how much acceleration you'd get out of the tiniest amount of a twist of the throttle.
i have a 250, dirt bike.. bit different then a road bike, but theirs no way in hell id go straight to a 1000.
that's just my 2 cents worth.

[axdout]

A 600 will excite you for about 2 weeks, If I could do it over I would have gone straight to the 1000. You pay big money for a nice 600, you pay more big money to extract minimal amounts of extra power out of it, then you have a ride on a 1000 that just smokes the shit out of your pride and joy, that is now worth half of what you originally paid for it, minus the mods. The bike only goes as fast as you tell it to. Just nut up and get a 1000.

[dangerous]

Urgh... plenty of threads on this already.
aint there just, and every time I get in the shit for saying my piece, FUCK ME kids whats the rush to clime onto a 1000 after a grotty we hyosung or similer? you wana end life that fast?
Shit WillskE, IMO move to a 250 sports or if that style aint you a 400 cruser, you have a life time ahead of you so 250, 400, 650 then maybe a 1000 if ya have to.
Its about learning and enjoying shit after 30yrs of non stop riding and I still only have 82Hp under my arse and loving it, HP is over rated and often owned cos the rider cant ride because they didnt take the time to learn on easier bikes.

[nadroj]

, HP is over rated and often owned cos the rider cant ride because they didnt take the time to learn on easier bikes.

Agreed!

I have a Hayabusa for sale......

[scracha]

Its about learning and enjoying shit after 30yrs of non stop riding and I still only have 82Hp under my arse and loving it, HP is over rated and often owned cos the rider cant ride because they didnt take the time to learn on easier bikes.

Yep, anyone who jumps from a 250 to a 600 and gets bored of it after 2 weeks should perhaps consider taking their obviously considerable skills to a place where they can legally hit the rev limiter in 1st gear.

[roadkillnz]

I asked the same question to myself, and went ahead with it anyway. Jumping from 250 2-stroke to a torquey v-twin 1200. The 1200 has tons of power compared to what I'm used to, but in some ways seems so calm and civilised compared to a 250 2-stroke. As for jumping to a higher strung 1000, I'm sure it's doable, just take it easy to start with,and keep an eye on the speedo, you might get a shock how quick those things get going!

[Oakie]

Nah. If you've only just got your full you've still got a chunk of learning to do. Do that learning on a more forgiving bike so you can survive long enough to enjoy the bigger bike next time around.

[PrincessBandit]

I was advised by lots of people that the 650 was too large a jump after spending a year on a ginny. However I was also advised that as long as I treated the bike (and my skill level as it was at that time) with respect much of what happened would be in my own hands.
I couldn't afford to "graduate" up through the cc levels and felt that the 650 would be the best choice for me, particularly the bandit for ergonomic reasons and my short stature. The 1250 was out of the question though!

Unless you are planning to do some serious caning of the bike 600cc should be plenty. Open road speed limit is only 100kph anyway (blah blah blah) and given the speed, acceleration and torque you can get out of some medium size bikes my personal opinion is think carefully about your own ability before spending the dosh.

You might be one of those sensible riders who have great road awareness and be a natural in the saddle, but if you aren't you might be looking at a harder-to-handle mistress than you are expecting.

[davereid]

It entirely depends on you, and the bike you choose.

LAMs is being introduced. It follows best practice advice from overseas.

The A.C.T. LAMS list allows to you ride most Harley Davidsons, right up tp 1690cc, various BMWs including the R100, the VTX1300 Honda etc etc.

In New Zealand, the NZTA decided that they wanted to restrict the maximum engine size of motorcycles to 660cc, but when challenged as to why, they had no answer, eventually saying that they didnt want learners on motorcycles that were too big or heavy.

Of course, height and weight are the measurement of big and heavy, c.c's weigh nothing. Its just another example of the NZTA being unable to shake off old poorly formed ideas.

Chhose a motorcycle that you will enjoy riding. Don't focus on performance, it rapidly looses its appeal.

Ride with care, practise basic skills until they are second nature, and you will be as safe on your 1200cc cruiser as anyone scraping a knee on a 250.

[trustme]

It entirely depends on you, and the bike you choose.

+1000
The wife went from a 250 to an 865 Bonnie, loves it, feels safer, rides like a nanna.
If you want to hop onto a 1000 sport bike & go flat out , you will very quickly be in way over your head.

[TIBLE_90]

A 600 will excite you for about 2 weeks, If I could do it over I would have gone straight to the 1000. You pay big money for a nice 600, you pay more big money to extract minimal amounts of extra power out of it, then you have a ride on a 1000 that just smokes the shit out of your pride and joy, that is now worth half of what you originally paid for it, minus the mods. The bike only goes as fast as you tell it to. Just nut up and get a 1000.

I fully agree with this haha. This exact thing happened to me :(. However, if money isn't a factor I would still say go for the 600 first. It allows you to become a better and more confident rider before progressing to a 1000cc bike.

[MaxCannon]

If you are set on a 1000 then get a GSXR1000 with the switchable maps and ride it on the low power setting.
There are plenty of people have been riding for years that can't handle their 1000cc bikes. You'll see the results on Trademe with the damaged bike auctions.

[ducatilover]

A 600 will excite you for about 2 weeks

Stop riding it in a straight line then :facepalm:

[Old Steve]

Depends how much you've ridden your GT250R. If you've only dawdled around on it, go the 600 way. If you've got 30,000 km on it, maybe you're ready for the 1000.

I'd go to the smaller capacity bike myself.

[SMOKEU]

OP - next up you should start a thread asking "how long is a piece of string?" There are HUGE differences in power and torque outputs of various different bikes which have the same, or similar engine displacement. Just compare the specs of a Hayabusa vs a Harley of a similar engine size. A high performance 600cc bike will have a lot more power than a lazy litre bike. A late model GSX1400 has less power than the same year GSXR600, just to give you an example. Both are straight 4 engines from the same manufacturer as well.

[Hitcher]

The thing I enjoyed most when moving from a 250 (an FZX250 Zeal) to a bigger bike (a ZRX1200R) was the superior brakes. And the handling. The brakes, the handling and the throttle response. The brakes, the handling, the throttle response and the fuel economy. The brakes, handling, throttle response, fuel economy and riding position...

Yes, bigger bikes go whoosh, but only if the rider twists the whoosh control aggressively. I've ridden an R1, a GSX-R1000 and a ZX10. Yes, gentle readers, they're all sprots bikes that can deliver shitloads of horsepower in nanoseconds, if asked, but they're also quite docile and well behaved round-town nerdlers. They are also excrutiatingly uncomfortable things to ride, until one's adrenalin levels rise to a point where the pounding pulsations from one's bleeding piles is subdued.

[GrayWolf]

just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?


A 600 will excite you for about 2 weeks, If I could do it over I would have gone straight to the 1000. You pay big money for a nice 600, you pay more big money to extract minimal amounts of extra power out of it, then you have a ride on a 1000 that just smokes the shit out of your pride and joy, that is now worth half of what you originally paid for it, minus the mods. The bike only goes as fast as you tell it to. Just nut up and get a 1000.

it's all been said here already, my 2c worth? As anyone of my age group would tell you, most of us 'graduated' from Road Rash Acadamy for learning our biking skills. Many of us went from a 250 to 900/1000cc 'superbikes' Some like myself stopped partway with a couple of Triumph's and a 'mere' 500 H1 :apumpin: In comparison although the modern 250 is a little faster on average that the fast ones we rode as learners, a sprot 600cc will outstrip for both acceleration and top end those 1000cc superbikes of our younger years. Really anyone who says they were bored with a 600 in 2 weeks? Must be called either Valantino Rossi, Mike Hailwood, Barry Sheen, Kenny Roberts...(two of these are now deceased and I dont see the other two's names in kiwibiker) or, they are so overconfident in their own ability as a rider, I'd be careful of the advice given (unless the 600/650 was a single banger adventure bike or similar). Only you know your skill level, confidence and ability on the road, let that be the guide for your step up rather than Ego. Similar to another poster in this thread, i've just dropped about 50bhp in power, and dont miss it at all.

[dangerous]

it's all been... and dont miss it at all. fark man a 250-9/1000 shit I was 80,125,250,500,750,turbo,1100 etc... back to a 11 but at 83hp might aswell be a 250 again... and ya know what? no 'road rash' so there is something to be said about taking ya time, BUT it seems these days its accepted that you crash, Im fucked if I understand that shit :mellow:

[axdout]

Interesting how people come to the conclusion from my post that I think my riding is comparable to rossi and that I am over confident. I am simply saying that for ME the excitement that I experienced when I first got on my R6 (comparing to a 250) quickly just became another bike in the garage. My 1000 however, lifts the wheel without trying and when your giving it shit you feel it trying to throw you off the back. I find this to be exciting and not boring( and it's been 6 months). I would rather have payed an extra 3k for that feeling everytime I ride the first time around. But thats just me I like to get value for money.

Man just take a 600 and a 1000 out and hammer them both and see which one puts a bigger smile on your face.

(Please do not interpret this post as me to be gloating about my superior motorcycling skills, Iv'e never even come close to getting my knee down, or even claimed to be awsum, or even been to a track day. I just find getting a bit of a rush in my daily commute makes going to work a little less shitty.

[Katman]

Interesting how people come to the conclusion from my post that I think my riding is comparable to rossi and that I am over confident. I am simply saying that for ME the excitement that I experienced when I first got on my R6 (comparing to a 250) quickly just became another bike in the garage. My 1000 however, lifts the wheel without trying and when your giving it shit you feel it trying to throw you off the back. I find this to be exciting and not boring( and it's been 6 months). I would rather have payed an extra 3k for that feeling everytime I ride the first time around. But thats just me I like to get value for money.

Man just take a 600 and a 1000 out and hammer them both and see which one puts a bigger smile on your face.

(Please do not interpret this post as me to be gloating about my superior motorcycling skills, Iv'e never even come close to getting my knee down, or even claimed to be awsum, or even been to a track day. I just find getting a bit of a rush in my daily commute makes going to work a little less shitty.

Fuckin' retard.

[superman]

Interesting how people come to the conclusion from my post that I think my riding is comparable to rossi and that I am over confident. I am simply saying that for ME the excitement that I experienced when I first got on my R6 (comparing to a 250) quickly just became another bike in the garage. My 1000 however, lifts the wheel without trying and when your giving it shit you feel it trying to throw you off the back. I find this to be exciting and not boring( and it's been 6 months). I would rather have payed an extra 3k for that feeling everytime I ride the first time around. But thats just me I like to get value for money.

Man just take a 600 and a 1000 out and hammer them both and see which one puts a bigger smile on your face.

(Please do not interpret this post as me to be gloating about my superior motorcycling skills, Iv'e never even come close to getting my knee down, or even claimed to be awsum, or even been to a track day. I just find getting a bit of a rush in my daily commute makes going to work a little less shitty.

http://static.black-frames.net/images/facepalm.jpg

[jrandom]

(Please do not interpret this post as me to be gloating about my superior motorcycling skills, Iv'e never even come close to getting my knee down, or even claimed to be awsum, or even been to a track day. I just find getting a bit of a rush in my daily commute makes going to work a little less shitty.

You're going to get hurt.

[Jantar]

Interesting how people come to the conclusion from my post that I think my riding is comparable to rossi and that I am over confident. I am simply saying that for ME the excitement that I experienced when I first got on my R6 (comparing to a 250) quickly just became another bike in the garage. My 1000 however, lifts the wheel without trying and when your giving it shit you feel it trying to throw you off the back. I find this to be exciting and not boring( and it's been 6 months). I would rather have payed an extra 3k for that feeling everytime I ride the first time around. But thats just me I like to get value for money.

Man just take a 600 and a 1000 out and hammer them both and see which one puts a bigger smile on your face.

(Please do not interpret this post as me to be gloating about my superior motorcycling skills, Iv'e never even come close to getting my knee down, or even claimed to be awsum, or even been to a track day. I just find getting a bit of a rush in my daily commute makes going to work a little less shitty.


Fuckin' retard.

i wouldn't have used quite the same wording as Katman, but I also couldn't express my feelings any better. :no:

[DEATH_INC.]

.............

This deserves to be post of the year!

[neels]

I went from a 250 to an old 600, rode that until I was thrashing it as hard as the 250, and happy riding with people on bigger and newer bikes.

Now I'm on a 80hp v-twin, which I know would be a lot faster with someone else on it, but I'm comfortable giving it a handful of anything without being scared shitless of what it might do. I had a FZR1000 on loan for a while, and the power delivery/riding position/handling made me nervous, which made riding a lot less fun than thrashing the 600.

Extending yourself incrementally is a lot safer option than taking a big step, then realising the hard way it was a step too far....

[DEATH_INC.]

The simple fact is any of the sprot thou's are way too fast for the road, at least if you have any idea how to make them go properly. How many fresh riders have any idea how to land a 160k plus wheelie when these things stand up at that speed (the 10 does it all the time)??? Or how to stop a highside at these speeds because you've screwed on a bit much throttle in a lower gear than you thought you were in? Or how to take a corner 50kph faster than you thought you'd be going when you got there?
You may say that it only goes as fast as you turn the right handle, but mistakes happen, more so with inexperienced riders. Sport thous are very unforgiving.
As it is with enough rpm even a newer 600 sprot bike is stupidly fast. You just have a BIT more margin for error.

Anyone who can beat me around a track or on the road can argue this with me. There are a few too, but I think most will agree.

You will gain way more skill working your way up, rather than jumping straight on to something that scares your pants off you when ya ride it.

That's my opinion anyway, but us old fella's don't know shit anyhow eh?

[ducatilover]

The simple fact is any of the sprot thou's are way too fast for the road, at least if you have any idea how to make them go properly. How many fresh riders have any idea how to land a 160k plus wheelie when these things stand up at that speed (the 10 does it all the time)??? Or how to stop a highside at these speeds because you've screwed on a bit much throttle in a lower gear than you thought you were in? Or how to take a corner 50kph faster than you thought you'd be going when you got there?
You may say that it only goes as fast as you turn the right handle, but mistakes happen, more so with inexperienced riders. Sport thous are very unforgiving.
As it is with enough rpm even a newer 600 sprot bike is stupidly fast. You just have a BIT more margin for error.

Anyone who can beat me around a track or on the road can argue this with me. There are a few too, but I think most will agree.

You will gain way more skill working your way up, rather than jumping straight on to something that scares your pants off you when ya ride it.

That's my opinion anyway, but us old fella's don't know shit anyhow eh?

The rate those bikes pile on speed accidentally is purely fucked if you're not used to it.
I rode a 'Busa once and the effortless speed it was doing without me realising was stupid. Too much for me at the time (Too much for me now :facepalm: )

Gizz a go on your ten...

[BigAl]

I fully agree with this haha. This exact thing happened to me :(. However, if money isn't a factor I would still say go for the 600 first. It allows you to become a better and more confident rider before progressing to a 1000cc bike.

+1 definitely believe that one has to build up to get experience, a 1000 sports bike can bite very hard if you cock up.

Plus depending on age check the insurance premiums.

[YellowDog]

just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?

Perhaps it is time that a law was passed preventing inexperienced riders upping our ACC levies in this way.

Dude, to ride a 1000cc bike with confidence, you need Waaaay more experience than you will have.

If you claim to be Mr Sensible and will ride your "Death Rocket' like an old granny would, then you are missing the point. Where's the fun in that? Whatever you go for, ride it well and become a better rider. Don't experiment on the public highway - please!

You need heaps more experience before you ride a 1000cc. Take courses, ride lots and see how you get on. You can try a 1000cc in a controlled environment to get some experience and also a better feel for what you might like. You'll save your self heaps of money and possible your life too.

Now if you don't start behaving yourself, I'll tell your Mummy and Daddy what you are up to :mad:

[dangerous]

Perhaps it is time that a law was passed preventing inexperienced riders upping our ACC levies in this way.
Yes FARK YES at last some one that gets it, but alas in one ear out the other, those responsable will keep paying for the green.

[gatch]

If you get a litre class sport bike right now, one little fuck up with the throttle will shoot you at a car faster than your anus can suck the vinyl off the seat.

A nice new 600 will get you there almost as quick, but you will have more time to accept your fate and kiss having working limbs goodbye.

Ride something else. A 400 sport bike, a fast 250, a big supermoto, whatever, get some time up.

Or not, ultimately up to you.

[EJK]

You are the captain of your ship.




:corn:

[superman]

get some time up.

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?

I was planning on getting a 600 when I get my full, but would just be interesting to know.

[ducatilover]

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?

I was planning on getting a 600 when I get my full, but would just be interesting to know.
Depends on the rider mate, I've done over 200,000 on bikes and don't have a need for the power of a litre bike at all, nor would I trust myself to ride one fast (I reckon I'd be faster on a 600)

[superman]

Depends on the rider mate, I've done over 200,000 on bikes and don't have a need for the power of a litre bike at all, nor would I trust myself to ride one fast (I reckon I'd be faster on a 600)

Consensus seems to be 600's are more nimble, which is by far my want rather than speed. If there was a larger range of new 400cc-500cc sports bikes that would definitely be the sweet point for me.

[YellowDog]

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?

I was planning on getting a 600 when I get my full, but would just be interesting to know.

It's all down to the individual. I have friends whom have been riding bikes for years and years, yet the still don't understand countersteering and are not able to identify a reasonably good line when taking bends. They ride their bikes just the same as they drive their cars: But they get by safely. They ride carefully enough for their lack of ability not to matter. I find it hilarous watching them slow down and lean over to make the bike go where they want it to. I have tried helping them, but they are just not interested in improving their riding abilities. That's fine (for them). They're old enough and ugly enough to know better.

An advanced riding course is a great way to get your riding abilities assessed and also to improve enough to be safe on a more powerful bike. A qualified instractor is thre best person to judge whether you already have the skills or can teach you what you will need to know :yes:

[FJRider]

Consensus seems to be 600's are more nimble, which is by far my want rather than speed. If there was a larger range of new 400cc-500cc sports bikes that would definitely be the sweet point for me.

Why go for new ... ??? a step up in cc's starts a whole new learning process ...

Something like this maybe ... ??? It will give you a bit of experience on a bigger bike. Even six months on one of these will give you a good prep for a 600 ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-439342651.htm

[Jantar]

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?

I was planning on getting a 600 when I get my full, but would just be interesting to know.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. rather than consider whether or not you are ready for a thou, ask yourself what type, size and style of bike will suit you best. A 1000cc or bigger bike will be right if you carry heavy load, or if you want to race, or if you are into endurance rides like the TT2000 or Southern Cross. Remember also that a 1000cc bike will go through tyres a lot faster than a smaller bike, and those tyres will cost a lot more. Chains will wear out quicker etc. In other words that bigger bike will cost more to run.

Ask yourself what style of riding you are doing. is it touring? Or is it sports? Or is it commuting?

Rather than go strictly by size try choosing a bike that will suit your usage.

[Gremlin]

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?
It's not really about the mileage, especially if it's all under the same circumstances. Let's say you're a fair weather rider (hypothetically, and not you) who rides the same roads all the time, same bike, same speed etc. In complete contrast, you could be an all weather rider, who's ridden plenty of unknown roads (I've come across plenty who ride a road in a way because they "know" the road), perhaps had the odd moment, but learnt how to deal with it.

I've done over 200,000km now, started almost 7 years ago. I went ZZR250, ZX7R, ZX10R, KTM 990SM, BMW R1200GSA. Went all the way up to the 04-05 thou, which was mental and incredibly fun, but all the fun was well over the legal limits, lost my license, and learnt that only seeking speed from riding was a one way trip to a coffin. Riding morphed, started enjoying the roads less travelled, under the limit was fine. Still not riding like a snail, but I haven't seen the high side of probably 150+ in a couple of years (and I'm fine with it).

Riding continues to morph... next is all the adventure roads of NZ. Far more satisfying than seeking an additional 5kph in a corner.

Bike experience... everything from 50cc scooters to an 1800cc cruiser. Long as you're enjoying yourself, it doesn't matter what others think.

[ducatilover]

Consensus seems to be 600's are more nimble, which is by far my want rather than speed. If there was a larger range of new 400cc-500cc sports bikes that would definitely be the sweet point for me.
Nothing wrong with a 600 really, I think mine had enough power for me. You will certainly enjoy one. :niceone:

[FJRider]

Even keeping the power of a big bike "under control" ... the mere weight of it will chew out tyres faster than the smaller ones.

And should you want to carry a pillion ... some sports bikes are not that comfortable on the back for long ...

Going to rallys ... ??? how much gear will/can you take. (there's not always a back-up vehicle)

[quickbuck]

It's all down to the individual. I have friends whom have been riding bikes for years and years, yet the still don't understand countersteering and are not able to identify a reasonably good line when taking bends. They ride their bikes just the same as they drive their cars: But they get by safely. They ride carefully enough for their lack of ability not to matter. I find it hilarous watching them slow down and lean over to make the bike go where they want it to. I have tried helping them, but they are just not interested in improving their riding abilities. That's fine (for them). They're old enough and ugly enough to know better.

An advanced riding course is a great way to get your riding abilities assessed and also to improve enough to be safe on a more powerful bike. A qualified instractor is thre best person to judge whether you already have the skills or can teach you what you will need to know :yes:

Send your mates on a corse... Check out my Sig. Tell Karel I sent you ;)
They will be better mates to ride with for it.

Now the advert is over, my story.
Basically started out at 6 crashing dads farm bikes until I got my own at 17.
'Twas a 250 (traded it for a cage for a bit), then got a 400... Crashed that, got another 400. Then got hit on that, so had a few years off..... Then got a600. Sold that (finally got to sell another bike), then got the 600 I have today. Riding for 34+ years! Ridden everything up to 1400's, and 1000cc track bikes with confidence.... But you know what? I get the biggest kicks of my life on a 250 at the track. 600 is fun to head onto the back roads, and has been clocled at 250 km/hr on the runway, but really it is a 100HP toy that will beat my Clubsport into the weeds, and enable me to loose my licence if I don't concerntrate on the speedo for most of the ride. No real fun in that.
Yes, I know exactly what it sounds like at 5000RPM, but it sounds better at 6000.... Shame that = 120k....

My advice superman, is get a bike you fit on the small side of 600.... Or really, and I mean REALLY learn to ride your GT250R. They are quite fast, and very capable in the right hands.
If you doubt me bring it to a course, and give me a go.

[avgas]

If the op wants to work thing out for themselves......but no one will lend him a ride, he can come ride my crap 400 round the block for a perspective.
Its got no rego or wof..........but he will be riding illegally anyways. :laugh:
But will give him a perspective of what difference 1.5 the horsepower feels like..........rather than learning the hard way on bike with 5 times the HP.........

It certainly did me a lot of good borrowing a mates ZXR10 before I bought my first 1000........concluded I didn't need that much poke and got an FZ1 instead. Front is heavier too. I was moving up from a ZXR4 so needed the hands on experience before jumping into the big bores.

As for the 250 - 1000 leap. To put it blankly mate, your 250 is not really a "250" but the PC version of one. While having a 1000 cc won't kill you, a lack of control will. If your unsure if you have that control, the answer is simple - Its a bad idea.
Test ride a range of bikes, slowly working up to 600. Take out a 250/4, 400 single or twin, 400/4, 600 twin............then try a 600/4.
Stop with the first bike that scares the shit out of you, the next level up will kill you or take away your license.

I have downgraded many times, sometimes to save my license, sometimes to save my life. You can always go back up again later. Unless your dead.

[Oblivion]

I would never move onto a bike that is past 800cc. (Cruisers are excluded of course) I won't be able to handle it no matter how long I've spent on bikes. A 1000cc is just that. A racebike. Do you have an ego you need to compensate for? What about an addiction to speed?

A 250 is more to get the basic skills of motorcycling down. You can rev it and it won't go to 140kmh in 1st. Its forgiving, often better handling, and is sometimes more that you need. If you don't need a Thou, besides for the shits and giggles, why get one.

Go for something way more practical. If you want a sportsbike, go for a CBR600RR, GSXR-600, R6, or maybe even a 750. If you want something more touring oriented, A BMW 650 single, or a 650 Twin will do you well.

The main purpose that I bought a bike was to use it to travel from point A-B, while visiting points C-Z in the meantime. So yeah pretty much a tourer, Something like a BMW F650, SV650 or maybe even a VFR800.

If you going to go in a straight line then what the hell do you need 180HP for?

GSXR-1000 Alive->Dead in 2.6s

[Berries]

While having a 1000 cc won't kill you, a lack of control will. If your unsure if you have that control, the answer is simple - Its a bad idea.
There's your answer right there. Ignore all the rest.


I would never move onto a bike that is past 800cc. (Cruisers are excluded of course) I won't be able to handle it no matter how long I've spent on bikes. A 1000cc is just that. A racebike.
Eh? I can think of many sub 800cc bikes that I am much more likely to get myself in to trouble with than my current 1000c non cruiser non racebike, including some of the ones you mentioned. Each to their own and all that, but engine size does not equate to risk. [Unless of course it is 601cc which is the Devils number].

[dangerous]

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?

I was planning on getting a 600 when I get my full, but would just be interesting to know.
You people just dont listen do ya... me 400,000km PLUS and still learn every day I ride.
Riding the same road does sfa for experance ya have to ride in snow, wind, rain, up, down, around all on different roads in summer in winter, have close calls with sheep, shingle, cars, list is never ending, SO how many km's?...
Those mentioning 600's shit you can punt one of them through the Akaroa GP faster than a 1000.

[p.dath]

If its any conciliation, I'll share some of my experience.

I had a Honda CBR250RR for ages. I started with it on my restricted licence. And even when I got my full licence I kept it. It kept it because I loved that bike, and at the point I got my full licence I didn't feel I could ride that bike to anywhere near its abilities. Going to a bigger bike at that time would just have increased the gap between what the bike could offer and my abilities.

Eventually I reached a point where I felt like I was waiting for the bike to respond, and decided it was time to change. I moved to a Honda CBR600F. Man what a huge difference! It so so much heavier, and the acceleration seemed extreme by comparison. Tipping into corners was such a different experience. The difference was so big it knocked my confidence for about 6 months.

I've had the CBR600F for quite a few years now. I don't feel like I can use all of its abilities yet, so rather like the 250 I had, I'll be sticking with the 600 for quite some time. I really love riding this bike as well.


I've done lots of training events AMCC ART days at Pukekohe and events like Ride Right Ride Safe by BRONZ. Each year the bike feels like it is more and more under my control. It does what I want. That's how I want it to be. The bike does not scare me. I do not feel fearful riding it. I feel in control.


I guess what I'm trying to say is making sure you are choosing a bike for the right reasons, rather than ego. Just because you're getting your full licence doesn't mean you have to immediately upgrade to a bigger bike. It's ok if you want to - but don't feel like you have to. If you enjoy your current bike it's ok to stay with it beyond getting your full. And you will enjoy riding a lot more if you feel in control. You wont enjoy riding if the bike keeps giving you scares.

My guess is one day you'll spot a bike, give it a try, and you'll get this incredible sensation inside - kinda like a feeing of "wow", and then you've found the right next bike for you.

[SMOKEU]

I had a Honda CBR250RR for ages. I started with it on my restricted licence. And even when I got my full licence I kept it. It kept it because I loved that bike, and at the point I got my full licence I didn't feel I could ride that bike to anywhere near its abilities. Going to a bigger bike at that time would just have increased the gap between what the bike could offer and my abilities.

Eventually I reached a point where I felt like I was waiting for the bike to respond, and decided it was time to change. I moved to a Honda CBR600F. Man what a huge difference! It so so much heavier, and the acceleration seemed extreme by comparison. Tipping into corners was such a different experience. The difference was so big it knocked my confidence for about 6 months.



Interesting. I moved from a MC19 CBR250R to a GSXR600 SRAD just a couple of weeks ago, and the 600 has given me a HUGE confidence boost. This is because the 600 handles much better than the 250, and if I hit a bump or rough surface mid way through a corner I no longer feel like I'm going to die. The 600 is a lot more stable, and the steering feels lighter on the 600 as well (probably because it's a more modern bike and doesn't have 24 year old suspension designed for tiny Japanese riders).

By the time I burnt through the first tank of fuel on that thing I was comfortable cornering at speeds much faster than I ever could on the 250.

[baffa]

I've ridden a few bikes now, including a mates 600 sportsbike. Given enough respect it is easy enough to become comfortable with, and the brilliant brakes and capable chassis inspires confidence.

Makes my 250 seem a little boring, except on tight twisty roads of course.

Imho a modern 600 or older 750-1000 is fine for someone who has been riding for awhile, but it really comes down to common sense.

[5150]

I have recently stepped down from a mentally powerfull 05 Z1000 to 07 675 Daytona, and do not regret it one little bit. What the Daytona lacks in power of the 1000cc bike it makes up in handling and faster corner speed. Yes I know the Daytona is more of a sports bike then the Zed, but The Zed was a mentally fast bike in a straight line accelaration, which i got borred off very quickly i might add. I feel that stepping down in size has made me a better rider because I have a bike that handles allot better through corners and it is still as fast as the 1000 was

[trustme]

Interesting. I moved from a MC19 CBR250R to a GSXR600 SRAD just a couple of weeks ago, and the 600 has given me a HUGE confidence boost. This is because the 600 handles much better than the 250, and if I hit a bump or rough surface mid way through a corner I no longer feel like I'm going to die. The 600 is a lot more stable, and the steering feels lighter on the 600 as well (probably because it's a more modern bike and doesn't have 24 year old suspension designed for tiny Japanese riders).

By the time I burnt through the first tank of fuel on that thing I was comfortable cornering at speeds much faster than I ever could on the 250.


That is how the vicious cycle begins. You get a bigger bike , better brakes ,nice handling, goes great, you feel safer so you go faster. You get another faster bike & keep on pushing . All the time your skills are not keeping pace with the increase in speed, when something goes wrong as it almost inevitably does you do not have the skills or road craft to get yourself out of trouble.
A trap for players both young & old. Plenty of born again bikers get back on powerful bikes after an extended break from riding & crash within a few months . One I know of crashed the next day
An SV650 or ER6 would be a more sensible option, they have all the performance you need for average riding, a good rider on either will give many sports bike riders a hurry up in the tight stuff. The power does not get in the way of learning good technique.

Not having a crack at you Smokeu, just seen that overconfidence bite too many people

[ducatilover]

If its any conciliation, I'll share some of my experience.
You're one of the few who don't have to be Rossi :niceone:


Interesting. I moved from a MC19 CBR250R to a GSXR600 SRAD just a couple of weeks ago, and the 600 has given me a HUGE confidence boost. This is because the 600 handles much better than the 250, and if I hit a bump or rough surface mid way through a corner I no longer feel like I'm going to die. The 600 is a lot more stable, and the steering feels lighter on the 600 as well (probably because it's a more modern bike and doesn't have 24 year old suspension designed for tiny Japanese riders).

By the time I burnt through the first tank of fuel on that thing I was comfortable cornering at speeds much faster than I ever could on the 250.
That's the nice thing about a real bike on real rubber, there's no comparison. The MC19 is a good handling bike, but not the most secure handling bike lol Give us a go on your SRAD?

[SMOKEU]

That is how the vicious cycle begins. You get a bigger bike , better brakes ,nice handling, goes great, you feel safer so you go faster. You get another faster bike & keep on pushing . All the time your skills are not keeping pace with the increase in speed, when something goes wrong as it almost inevitably does you do not have the skills or road craft to get yourself out of trouble.
A trap for players both young & old. Plenty of born again bikers get back on powerful bikes after an extended break from riding & crash within a few months . One I know of crashed the next day
An SV650 or ER6 would be a more sensible option, they have all the performance you need for average riding, a good rider on either will give many sports bike riders a hurry up in the tight stuff. The power does not get in the way of learning good technique.

Not having a crack at you Smokeu, just seen that overconfidence bite too many people

I worked with a dude once whose parents bought him a 50cc scooter. He wrote the scooter off within 3 days of owning it because he took a roundabout too fast. It's not the power that is dangerous, it's how the bike is ridden. I ride the bike sensibly and I don't push my luck. I was simply stating that the 600 is much more stable on the roads and it doesn't spit the dummy every time I hit a little bump like the 250.

Most of the 20 year old 250s have very primitive and worn out suspension compared to more modern sports bikes, and that's why I think the 600 is a safer bike than the 250, provided it's ridden sensibly.

I've seen people fuck themselves up badly on ordinary 250s because they thought they could ride like Rossi.

[SMOKEU]

Give us a go on your SRAD?

Give us a go on your bike first.

[Sliver]

Just take it easy you will be fine

[ducatilover]

Give us a go on your bike first.
Before or after the turbo? :bleh:

[trustme]

All good & I agree.

Unfortunately our appalling accident statistics suggest that riding sensibly is something that many motorcyclists are not very good at.

Serious Question & off on a tangent. We are continually being told that our standard of driving in NZ is appalling. If we accept that is correct, & many on here moan about bloody car drivers.
If car drivers are so bad , why would we as bike riders be any better ?, maybe our accident statistics are representative of our true collective ability

[SMOKEU]

Before or after the turbo? :bleh:

After the turbo!!!!!!!!!

[ducatilover]

After the turbo!!!!!!!!!
Maybe... :niceone:

[javawocky]

just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?
I went RG150 > SV1000 > GSXR 600

Here is some advice I disregarded when I upgraded. I don't regret owning the SV but the 600 is way more fun.


...That said, the 600 is almost always a more rewarding ride. You feel like your really on it, the 600 can also carry high corner speed (mid corner), and a good rider on a 600 will always outride an average rider on a thou....
...The thou is like being addicted to Crack. There are 12 step programmes for drug addiction. There are no 12 steps for recovery from a thou.

[haydes55]

A true test of a bikes performance is how fast it gets around Nürburgring Nordschleife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Mo torcycles. A Suzuki GSX-R600K7 is the fastest street legal bike on the table (yes heavily modified but the 1000cc bikes would be modified aswell), the rest of the list is full of 1000cc, but the rider who got the fastest and second fastest time was faster by 4.8 seconds on the 600cc. 95% of the time on the road you wont even be using the 600cc's full potential. Cheaper on gas, lighter, easier and more comfy to turn.

That is all just my opinion and for what I would be using the bike for, I like riding through corners and accelerating hard, I'm not so fussed about the top speed and usually stay close to the speed limit. Riding through the Coromandel at a decent pace is my idea of fun.

[steve_t]

95% of the time on the road you wont even be using the 600cc's full potential. Cheaper on gas, lighter, easier and more comfy to turn.


And don't forget that it's $114 a year cheaper to register :niceone:

[quickbuck]

When recommending he stay with his 250 one thing you over look is that bigger bikes are safer in side winds on the open rd due to their weight. 1000cc is a far too big a jump though.

To an extent I agree. You actually use a little power to combat the wind.... But NOT 180 BHP.
On that though, don't forget i live in one of the windiest areas in the country, and have no real issues on the 250. It is all about bike control, and understanding limitations.

[gatch]

How much time would you need you reckon? I'm going for my full as soon as I'm allowed to, which will be 2 years of riding on a motorcycle. And if continuing as I have been, will have done about 35,000-38,000k's. How many k's you reckon you need under your belt before daring to get near a litre?

I was planning on getting a 600 when I get my full, but would just be interesting to know.

It's a shit of a thing. There can be no definitive number on it.

Think of it a different way. How much horse power do you want/need. Do you ride like a demon possessed or is 150kph to pass a line of traffic more than sufficient. Commuter or track bike. Have you reached a stage where you know before you do it, what any input into your controls is going to do. Etc etc.

I've been riding for nearly 11 years now, have covered well over 100k, ridden (though not owned) loads of different bikes, been dabbling in racing for 2 years. Crashed more times than I care to remember (nearly all my fault). I went from an rg50, to a spada, to my current vfr400. I've had it for about 2 1/2 years. Only now do I wish I had a bit more horsepower. Not so I can pull power wheelies while passing cops at 250kph, but so I don't have to shift gears to pass cars quickly, or to gas it out of a slow corner. Working the gearbox is fun on the track, not so much on the road any more.

You'll have to work it out for yourself, but be realistic. It's your money, your life..

[DrunkenMistake]

I usually read the entire thread, but this time I havnt,
Going by the OP's OP.. :P

You have a hyo 250, its a twin so not exactly balls to the wall,
You could look at a firestorm which is a 1000 twin, obviously it will be white knuckles till you break it in, but its not going to be 0 - 1000000 in a second flat, like an R1 or CBR thou etc,

I went 250 4IL to a 400 V4 now im on the Hyo 650 which is a twin, I felt the 400 had a bit more pick up and go, but you can feel the torque and angry power in the 650,

I cant say about the thou's as I have only ever had a chance to ride a cbr 1000rr once, and I got seamen all over the tank,
but I would recommend maybe looking for a sportier 600 and save on the rego,

[jrandom]

After several years of trying many things, I've settled on a bike that weighs 250kg and makes about 55 horse powers. It goes just fine.

[DrunkenMistake]

After several years of trying many things, I've settled on a bike that weighs 250kg and makes about 55 horse powers. It goes just fine.

My hyo?! ..

50kg too light. Lmao

[jrandom]

My hyo?! ..

Your hyo would give my bike the learn bro.

Doesn't matter, though, cos it's not a race.

[Berries]

I cant say about the thou's as I have only ever had a chance to ride a cbr 1000rr once, and I got seamen all over the tank,
I thought the Friday night racing down by the harbour was long since gone.

[DrunkenMistake]

Your hyo would give my bike the learn bro.

Doesn't matter, though, cos it's not a race.

Point right there,
I would have brought a 4il 600 or similar if I wanted to go flat stick 24/7,
My Nuke may have been problematic to start with, but it does everything I wanted it to do

[Jerry74]

Lots of test rides would be my advice and a 600 or 750 is going to feel like a rocket compared to the hyosung mate.

I went 250 cc , gsxr750r ( cops didn't like it as much as me), M50 Boulevard and now on the Harley Heritage 1550cc ( I like having my licence intact these days)

1000 cc unless you are a Valentino Rossi clone I doubt you would be able to get the full power out of it.
I recommend trying a ZX6R or GSXR 600 plenty quick enough but easier to handle.

[superman]

Not so I can pull power wheelies while passing cops at 250kph, but so I don't have to shift gears to pass cars quickly, or to gas it out of a slow corner. Working the gearbox is fun on the track, not so much on the road any more.

I heard a rumour automatics exist... :lol:

[scracha]

Noting how many folks who had 100+ bhp bikes now having much more enjoyment on sub 100bhp bikes?

Litre sportsbikes are for the track or autobahn.

[Oakie]

Litre sportsbikes are for the track or autobahn.

I believe they are also commonly used as a penis extender.

[DrunkenMistake]

I believe they are also commonly used as a penis extender.


Stand by for aggressive defensive and not so witty comment from a litre bike owner...

[Ender EnZed]

I wonder how long the owner of this bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-438484180.htm) had been riding before deciding it was a good idea to buy a brand new 200hp litre bike?

[gatch]

Stand by for aggressive defensive and not so witty comment from a litre bike owner...

I was at manfield on saturday. It's an eye opener seeing all these big fast bikes going fast in a straight line, then getting smoked by my baggy old 400 in every single turn. Granted if they could ride properly, they would have left me for dead. But most can't. Dick extenders is right.

[DrunkenMistake]

I was at manfield on saturday. It's an eye opener seeing all these big fast bikes going fast in a straight line, then getting smoked by my baggy old 400 in every single turn. Granted if they could ride properly, they would have left me for dead. But most can't. Dick extenders is right.

Im yet to pop my track cherry so I guess I cant compare myself to anyone, but I know of a couple of people who have had a 250 for 3 months if that and brought a litre bike, and I know for a fact my riding ability has been far superior to theirs,
Granted I know a few people with litre bikes and they can ride, and ride bloody well, on and off track.

Personal preference and all that too I guess, I use my bike every day rain hail and shine and 90% of its use is to get my fat ass to work and back, so I dont see the point in having a 100 + bhp bike

[haydes55]

Get a thou and get a throttle cable that's a bit too long to swap in when you get it if you're scared, wont be able to go full throttle. Once you feel comfortable then change it back to the stock one. Riding a thou through traffic would suck and if you put a wrong foot down when stopped or fuck up a hill start think of the extra weight that's going to complicate shit.

An R6 does 0-60mph in about 2.8-3 seconds, that kicks a Ferraris ass. A 600 is cheaper than a thou to buy aswell.

I've only ever ridden one thou (and it had about 200hp, crossplane R1 on methanol in a sidecar), on dirt, with 2 riders on a longer, lower frame, The bike still lifts the front wheel (I only got it to full throttle for a second max and that was like a rocket). An R6 is already quicker than 99.9% of all cages in NZ.

[tigertim20]

I believe they are also commonly used as a penis extender.
tie rope around cock, tie other end around swingarm and do a drag start.
also helpful for pulling the neighborhood Pedo out of your Kid's room at night by the nuts.

Im yet to pop my track cherry

March 17th, you're coming whether you want to or not cunt or I'll torch your bike.

hehe, I like how these threads evolve into opinionated 'you dont need a litre bike on the road' threads.
I agree. You dont. You also dont need:
V6 cars, V8 cars, 3 litre cars, turbo cars, really any car over 2 litres, you dont even need a 600 either most of the time, a 400 would suffice.
But its not about NEED. its about WANT.

Personally, I ride what I want (and have) because it was my dream bike, and fuck the haters!!:bash: I love my bike.

[Jantar]

Stand by for aggressive defensive and not so witty comment from a litre bike owner...

OK. I have a litre bike and I love it. Its so much nicer to ride than any 100+ HP bike I've ever owned.

So its got less HP than most 600s, and there's no way I'd be able to keep up with any decent sports bike on the track. But it carries my weight with pillion and full hard luggage for days on end much better than any 600 ever could. :scooter:

And I'd like to see how many 600 (or thou sports bike for that matter) can match me on those endurance rides. :D

[Madness]

I have only ever had a chance to ride a cbr 1000rr once, and I got seamen all over the tank

Dirty Philipinos I presume?

[DrunkenMistake]

OK. I have a litre bike and I love it. Its so much nicer to ride than any 100+ HP bike I've ever owned.

So its got less HP than most 600s, and there's no way I'd be able to keep up with any decent sports bike on the track. But it carries my weight with pillion and full hard luggage for days on end much better than any 600 ever could. :scooter:

And I'd like to see how many 600 (or thou sports bike for that matter) can match me on those endurance rides. :D


haha let me rephrase, "stand by for aggressive defensive and not so witty comment from a litre sportsbike owner..." :innocent:

[DrunkenMistake]

Dirty Philipinos I presume?

Yeah, I had to pay her a dollar more to name her after a motorcycle... :eek5:

[dangerous]

tie rope around cock, tie other end around swingarm and do a drag start.
also helpful for pulling the neighborhood Pedo out of your Kid's room at night by the nuts.:woohoo: bloody brilliant coment after the post above yours, never heard such a farked up idea :facepalm:


I was at manfield on saturday. It's an eye opener seeing all these big fast bikes going fast in a straight line, then getting smoked by my baggy old 400 in every single turn. Granted if they could ride properly, they would have left me for dead. But most can't.true aye, it never fails to amaze me how me and me oll rd350 could toast new 600-1000's on the track, ok they blew my doors off down the straight but aventually Id get far enough ahead to stay there, so why the fuck does a hairy arsed rocky 'want' a thour?

[baffa]

:woohoo: bloody brilliant coment after the post above yours, never heard such a farked up idea :facepalm:

true aye, it never fails to amaze me how me and me oll rd350 could toast new 600-1000's on the track, ok they blew my doors off down the straight but aventually Id get far enough ahead to stay there, so why the fuck does a hairy arsed rocky 'want' a thour?

And in my old car I'd kick your rd350's ass around corners. Who cares? I can destroy harleys through the twisties on my 250, and I dont see them caring.
People buy bikes for different reasons. Not everyone wants to take 55 rated corners at twice that (though I'll grant you it is fun).

Realistically, If someone decides to speed a little but go round corners at a reasonable pace, is a lot safer than a smaller cc bike speeding less but cornering as fast as he possibly can.

[Fatjim]

just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?

Getting back to the original question.

or: Is a 600 safer than a 1000? Depends on the bike.

Is an R6 safer than a Vstrom? Depends on how long your legs are?

If you are tall, then a bigger bike won't be difficult to handle once you get used to it. If you are short, then it nevers gets totally easy. I have a mate who gave his SV1000 to his missus when he traded up. She came from a CBR250RR. We weren't worried for her, we were worried for the bike and told him so. Sure enough, she drops it a few times because her legs are too short and she doesn't have the strength to stop the bike falling over when it over balances. She now rides a CBR600RR.

If you get a thou, get something tame. The big twins are easy to ride, are not savagely going to highside you off (usually), easy to ride in traffic, etc. they also tend to have a more relaxed sitting position, except for the all out sports bikes like the TL, RSV or 99X/1098s.

[nodrog]

After reading this thread I think the general consensus is, you are better off spending your money on cotton wool and bubble wrap.

[avgas]

I wonder how long the owner of this bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-438484180.htm) had been riding before deciding it was a good idea to buy a brand new 200hp litre bike?
Hmmmm 1600
Say the shop put on 200
= 1400 / 200...

I estimate around 8-9 hours.

[cowboyz]

the.. it only goes as fast as your hand turns is right.. but then i can go from 110 to 140 without noticeably changing the throttle if not paying attention. learn how to ride a 600 first. I would have got a 600 if i wasnt so egotistical. the extra power of the 1000 does turn into speed anyhow.
twist the throttle on a 600 and you will go fast. twist the throttle on a thou and youll wheelie

[ducatilover]

When recommending he stay with his 250 one thing you over look is that bigger bikes are safer in side winds on the open rd due to their weight. 1000cc is a far too big a jump though.
Most modern thou's weigh the same as a Hyosung GT250R...

I believe they are also commonly used as a penis extender.
Can I get an early R1 then? My knob's pretty little.

[zmlam]

I went from a vtr250 to a sv1000s a week after my full - and have no regrets so far. I initially wasn't going to consider any 1000cc bikes or pure sports bikes due to the much bigger step up in difference of hp, more around 600-750s. In saying so, after testing riding the SV1000s - I found it very manageable; acceleration is hugely different but its very linear (no powerbands, etc - its a sports touring bike), I haven't done anything that has surprised/caught me off guard yet. It is also much lighter (compared to some other 700-1000 bikes), was very surprised just how easy it was to steer for such a big bike. Weight difference between the SV650 and SV1000 is around 20kg. Katanas or the hornet 919 is 210kg+, the SV1000 at 180kg.

Though a few things - I don't race in it (don't do wheelies or ever intend to), I use it primarily for long distance riding with the odd 2-up and luggage (which forums/reviews say the bigger engines are more suited for). I'm certainly still learning and adjusting to it - tight cornering/u-turns is something I am having to re-learn on the bigger and longer and heavier bike.

To me I did weigh up 650-ish vs 1000, and the important factors were (in relation to the SV1000):

weight - not a huge difference between them - esp the sv1000s is quite light in comparison to other litre engines
price - petrol consumption isn't all that a huge difference for my type of riding
power difference - found the sv1000 very manageable - tho the sv1000s is the only 1000cc bike I have test ridden.
height - all the bikes I looked at are much taller than my vtr250, the sv1000s was same height as sv650. A few odd 600cc bikes were as low as 250cc.
safety - which is a combination of all the factors above


I actually made an excel sheet of all the 650ish bikes and the lone sv1000 and their specs, and the only factor that stood out considerably was the power. Had to ask myself if I could manage/control the power - and it was yes.

But that's just me..

Enjoy bike hunting - one thing I noticed when I went back to my 250 after test riding 600+ bikes was that the 250 just made a lot of noise but hardly moves!

[Fatjim]

Enjoy bike hunting - one thing I noticed when I went back to my 250 after test riding 600+ bikes was that the 250 just made a lot of noise but hardly moves!

That description could fit any number of things.

[Tigadee]

That description could fit any number of things.

Like a phone sex operator...? :lol:

[dangerous]

And in my old car I'd kick your rd350's ass around corners. Who cares? I can destroy harleys through the twisties on my 250, and I dont see them caring.
Ohhh dear... right over ya head mate, ya well off base :facepalm:

[baffa]

Ohhh dear... right over ya head mate, ya well off base :facepalm:

You're the one using a strawman argument to prove getting a thou is silly.

[grbaker]

Hundreds of years ago I went from a GPX250 to a GSR750FL... so from nearly zero BHP to 100BHP, 160kg to 220kg, master of the 250 to complete novice of the 750.

First twist of the throttle leaving the Motorcycle shop sent me screaming across the road with my reactions left far behind. :eek5:
It is a once in a lifetime thrill... biggest smile in 2 seconds on a new bike ever. :headbang:

The power, acceleration & weight increase wasn't proportional or expected.

but you've got to do it sometime.... so just be carefull, learn the bike. It won't kill you... your lack of respect & experience on that bike will.

oh and consider why some ubber-sport bikes have rally high insurrance levies.

[skippa1]

I went from a vtr250 to a sv1000s a week after my full I haven't done anything that has surprised/caught me off guard yet.

You would hope not....how long have you had your full and your SV?:blink:

[dangerous]

You're the one using a strawman argument to prove getting a thou is silly.What? ok so that one went over my head :facepalm:

[shrub]

Best bet... no. Don't make such a big jump, it's easier to learn the skills without the huge chunk of horsepower complicating things. A well ridden 600 can be faster than a 1000 in some situations anyway.

Riding safely takes many years to master, so unless you're a freak of nature you have a long way to go. On a 1000 you WILL find yourself going far faster than you intended and most of the time you will be fine, but one day you will almost certainly find yourself in the shit with no options up your sleeve, and that means you will hit something - if you're lucky it will only be the road. When you instinctively know what to do when the back end steps out, the front lifts (or both) and you find yourself well overcooked coming in to a corner, then consider a 1000.

And a 600 sport bike is only slightly slower than a 1000 and in many ways is harder to ride. My advice is to get something like a Street Triple because they are incredibly quick, and believe me, you won't outride the bike, they're not savage the way a 1000 is. You will get a shitload of pleasure but a lot less terror.

[carver]

nope, do it, just respect it, modern 1000s are piss easy to ride and tame when you want them to be, just dont let it fool you into thinking it wont bite you

[madbikeboy]

There's something about stupidity that seems to be contagious. Yes, a thou is too much for you. Actually, a 600 is too fast for you. A modern 600 has more than you can adjust to, and the process is brutally Darwinian. But, the tools on kiddie biker will say there's little difference, and it's all about how you twist the throttle. You'll be so far out of your depth that either luck or grim will help out.

I've witnessed people dying that thought they could ride with restraint but found out too late that they were wrong. Or am I sounding like katman?

[Ender EnZed]

modern 1000s are piss easy to ride and tame when you want them to be

Sure, the bikes are easy to ride. But it's much harder to ride without being a fuckwit when you think that you know you could be riding much faster than you currently are.

[ellipsis]

...$2.00 each way on 'NO'...what was the question again?.....

[dangerous]

There's something about stupidity that seems to be contagious. Yes, a thou is too much for you. Actually, a 600 is too fast for you. A modern 600 has more than you can adjust to, and the process is brutally Darwinian. But, the tools on kiddie biker will say there's little difference, and it's all about how you twist the throttle. You'll be so far out of your depth that either luck or grim will help out.

I've witnessed people dying that thought they could ride with restraint but found out too late that they were wrong.

worth a quote, read em n weep




nope, do it, just respect it, modern 1000s are piss easy to ride and tame when you want them to be, just dont let it fool you into thinking it wont bite you
and that alone is 'the' reason why CAMsec will win his money (another words that alone can kill you)

[carver]

Sure, the bikes are easy to ride. But it's much harder to ride without being a fuckwit when you think that you know you could be riding much faster than you currently are.

ah, you get used to getting the best of of it, i always felt i could ride a er6n the best out of all the bikes, GSXR1000 comes second....

1000s are not scary, i dont see why you poofs seem to act like you are afraid of em!

[dangerous]

ah, you get used to getting the best of of it, i always felt i could ride a er6n the best out of all the bikes, GSXR1000 comes second....

1000s are not scary, i dont see why you poofs seem to act like you are afraid of em!

Us poofs have been around a bit longer than you and therfor have seen the end results of fucked up bodys and bikes smeared down the road... ya never forget and ya sure as hell get sick of funerals.

disclaimer: yes the same can happen on a 250, what is the bloody hurry to get on "wipppeee" a thour :mellow:

[carver]

Us poofs have been around a bit longer than you and therfor have seen the end results of fucked up bodys and bikes smeared down the road... ya never forget and ya sure as hell get sick of funerals.

disclaimer: yes the same can happen on a 250, what is the bloody hurry to get on "wipppeee" a thour :mellow:

cause a thou is easier to ride than a 600...something called torque

[p.dath]

cause a thou is easier to ride than a 600...something called torque

Toouche.

"cause a thou is harder to ride than a 600...something called torque" ... because you now have one extra issue to deal with that you didn't have before. Adding more issues for your brain to have to deal with does not make it easier.

[carver]

Toouche.

"cause a thou is harder to ride than a 600...something called torque" ... because you now have one extra issue to deal with that you didn't have before. Adding more issues for your brain to have to deal with does not make it easier.

i think torque makes a bike easier to ride

[dangerous]

i think torque makes a bike easier to ride
how do you figger? my main ride thumps out more torque that peak power, torque will get you in the shit sooner than power... simply cos it arives first.





just wondering about that for a while would it be a good idea to stop on a 600 before moving to 1000?
opening post... so WillskE, what is your finel decision?

[carver]

how do you figger? my main ride thumps out more torque that peak power, torque will get you in the shit sooner than power... simply cos it arives first.

open the throttle, and the power is there, it also offers a smoother riding experience if you do it right.

go into a corner too hot, just open her up to pull it out, no flatness like a 600 at 3000rpm

[dangerous]

open the throttle, and the power is there, it also offers a smoother riding experience if you do it right.

go into a corner too hot, just open her up to pull it out, no flatness like a 600 at 3000rpm
and there also is the problem... a rocky, dampness, debri... ohhh oh light up, side step, high side so the 600 has a more forgiving reaction cos it never lit up.

[quickbuck]

open the throttle, and the power is there, it also offers a smoother riding experience if you do it right.


And if you do it wrong?????
Believe me, many riders Do it WRONG!

[ducatilover]

And if you do it wrong?????
Believe me, many riders Do it WRONG!
Like someone just upgrading from a 250?

[quickbuck]

Like someone just upgrading from a 250?
Well, yup. The potential is there more than ever...

[ducatilover]

Well, yup. The potential is there more than ever...:laugh: No doubt about that.

Carver, can I have a go on a Thou if you have one?

[schrodingers cat]

Yes! No! No! Yes!

Mate, please yourself. Pay your money and make your choice.

If you drop it, don't post here admitting it... After all, if you do it is totally your choice, your fault.

Whatever you do, make sure it brings a big smile to your face every time you sling your leg over.

[Jerry74]

It does not matter if you are on a 600 or a 1000, what counts is how much you can open the throttle a 250 cc will do 150 km plus.... so it's up to the rider not the bike.

[ducatilover]

It does not matter if you are on a 600 or a 1000, what counts is how much you can open the throttle a 250 cc will do 150 km plus.... so it's up to the rider not the bike.

A bit easier to fuck it all up on a proper thou though isn't it? I mean, 0-160 if you can keep the front down and not skid the rear up is done in first on most and in 6sec.
A 250cc that he's on, won't do a genuine 160...and it's very, very easy to fuck it up on a thou.

[cowboyz]

It does not matter if you are on a 600 or a 1000, what counts is how much you can open the throttle a 250 cc will do 150 km plus.... so it's up to the rider not the bike.

on a 250 you have ALLL that time while it gets there to think about how faster your going and how much faster you want to go

on a 1000 the bike already left.

thats the difference.

[carver]

and there also is the problem... a rocky, dampness, debri... ohhh oh light up, side step, high side so the 600 has a more forgiving reaction cos it never lit up.

they do, and when they light up they do it well cause all the power is at the top!

[dangerous]

Yes! No! No! Yes!

Mate, please yourself. Pay your money and make your choice.

If you drop it, don't post here admitting it....
Ya see I look at it as a misrable old cunt that I am... his money, his choice... in the case he wipes out OUR money in the form of acc, Im all for restrictions. It fucks me off paying masive acc levies yet I have never claime (not saying one day I might)

[schrodingers cat]

Ya see I look at it as a misrable old cunt that I am... his money, his choice... in the case he wipes out OUR money in the form of acc, Im all for restrictions. It fucks me off paying masive acc levies yet I have never claime (not saying one day I might)

Fair enough. You've spoken sensibly and given good reasons to step up gradually. I guess I sorta think its all got as much to do with attitude as cc's

[zmlam]

So if a jump from 250 to 1000 is discouraged by many, why then would the law allow the new learners max cc rating to be 650? I know the bikes will be detuned, but still to go from those who are entering the motorcycle journey who have NO past experience to go straight to a 650cc (ish) bike? Seems far, far worse to jump straight from 0cc to 650cc then it is from 250 to 1000cc.

Assuming that there will be a large group of people whose first bike is the maximum cc rating they can buy.

All I know is that they are catering for those who are super large/big to fit on a 250cc bike (which they currently cater for by giving exemptions), and also to discourage people to upgrade..

[ducatilover]

they do, and when they light up they do it well cause all the power is at the top!

It takes more to light a 600 up...it has less power and less torque, usually a fair bit less stress on the tyre too.

[Jerry74]

Fully agreed on above posts, but a 600 cc does not carry 160+ hp at the rear wheel generally.

From what the new licence laws seem to point to it will be the types of bikes like is available in aussie, ER6N, Gladius, CB600 etc.

Personally I went from 250 to 800 cc so it's how ya ride not how many ponys are available.

[tigertim20]

So if a jump from 250 to 1000 is discouraged by many, why then would the law allow the new learners max cc rating to be 650? I know the bikes will be detuned, but still to go from those who are entering the motorcycle journey who have NO past experience to go straight to a 650cc (ish) bike? Seems far, far worse to jump straight from 0cc to 650cc then it is from 250 to 1000cc.

Assuming that there will be a large group of people whose first bike is the maximum cc rating they can buy.

All I know is that they are catering for those who are super large/big to fit on a 250cc bike (which they currently cater for by giving exemptions), and also to discourage people to upgrade..

firstly, when the OP asked about a 600 vs a thou, most assumed they were talking about th R6/R1 or ZX6r/ZX10r, so lets clarify that there are LOTS of 600+ bikes with only modest power.

secondly, the up-to 650cc bikes that learners will be allowed to ride will NOT include the R6, ZX6, GSXR6, etc etc.
so I defer to the last line of your first paragraph - IMO it is safer to get on a GT650 as a first bike, than it is to go from a VT250 to an R1/ZX10r.
the prior is a bike of modest power, with plenty of ballast, it wont just wheelie all by itself when you get on the gas, you need to make some sort of concerted effort to get the front wheel sky-bound. a zx10/r1, will wheelie and do a full loop WAY before you hit redline if you give the gas a quick squirt, and that is the difference.

If the OP was looking at going to a 1340 Harley, or an SV thou, or something like that, there probably wouldnt be quite such an excited 'Fuck no, Youll DIE' response, but as it is, the presumption has been that the OP wants to go straight to the ZX10r. which is probably a correct assumption.

Someone else mentioned I think on the last page, that attitude plays and equal or greater part than cc's when it comes to upgrading your bike

[steve_t]

So if a jump from 250 to 1000 is discouraged by many, why then would the law allow the new learners max cc rating to be 650? I know the bikes will be detuned, but still to go from those who are entering the motorcycle journey who have NO past experience to go straight to a 650cc (ish) bike? Seems far, far worse to jump straight from 0cc to 650cc then it is from 250 to 1000cc.

Assuming that there will be a large group of people whose first bike is the maximum cc rating they can buy.

All I know is that they are catering for those who are super large/big to fit on a 250cc bike (which they currently cater for by giving exemptions), and also to discourage people to upgrade..

The LAMS bikes are based on power:weight. You can't just ride any 650cc bike. The ones on the list are relatively slow.

Doh, tigertim beat me to it

[GrayWolf]

So if a jump from 250 to 1000 is discouraged by many, why then would the law allow the new learners max cc rating to be 650? I know the bikes will be detuned, but still to go from those who are entering the motorcycle journey who have NO past experience to go straight to a 650cc (ish) bike? Seems far, far worse to jump straight from 0cc to 650cc then it is from 250 to 1000cc.

Assuming that there will be a large group of people whose first bike is the maximum cc rating they can buy.

All I know is that they are catering for those who are super large/big to fit on a 250cc bike (which they currently cater for by giving exemptions), and also to discourage people to upgrade..

For example a 650 single (DR650, XT660 etc) actualy have no more power (hp), than a mid power 250, although they may have a slightly higher top speed. If you (sorry to rot on about the past, but.....) look at a 650 from the late 1960's? in fact a Honda Hornet (popular 250) is about as fast. I posted earlier, one HUGE difference is, a modern 600 is as FAST as a 1000cc of the 1970's and even faster in many cases. Bike technology, tyre technology etc have marched on exponentialy, rider training, rider ability and rider evolution have not.
Maybe you are right, it could discourage people from upgrading, is that a terrible thing? If a person buys a 650 and find it suits their neeeds perfectly? Bloody fantastic! There are those of us who would love to see a 'stepped' licencing system. I have yet to see a real 'logical' arguement against it. There are plenty of emotive ones.. freedom/choice/my right..... but they are NOT logicaly positioned or rationaly arguable ones.
If I have a concern over LAM's? it is the weight factor for a new biker. Most 250's are forgiving of errors due to lightness and 'flickability' to correct a bad line through a corner for example. A 600 is not as light to flick about. I do hope that the old 2T 350/400's etc are not part of LAM's.... I know there are many of us 'fucking old bastards who don't know shit'!!! who rode 500 H1's, RD400/350's, NS400, RG4/500's etc and know they are in no way learner friendly.

[ducatilover]

The LAMS bikes are based on power:weight. You can't just ride any 650cc bike. The ones on the list are relatively slow.

Doh, tigertim beat me to it
I think the 650 twins are restricted in order to meet the power/weight also.

None of the LAMS bikes are "fast" or unsuitable for a learner, unless you get a ZZR400 and plop a ZZR600 motor in it, like I did last year. :facepalm:

[darkone]

I guess I can throw my experience in here ..... I started riding in Jan 2010. 1st bike was a suzuki gladius lams (I'm in nsw). Personally the weight wasn't an issue compared to the vtr 250 I test rode but the v-twin engine was much friendlier.
I got my full license mid April last year (over 30 so only 3 mths on L's and 12mth on P's). Over the next week I test rode (in order) a cbr600rr (a few times, it was my flatmates), street triple, cbr100rr, bmw s1000rr, ducati diavel, 2011 zx-10r.
I bought the zx-10r the next day. After watching my mate highside his cbr600rr by spinning up the rear and chopping the throttle, to my mind the electronic rider aids on the new thous made them a safer option than a 600 sport.

The only problem I've had so far was not spotting the popo on the overpass when I decided to use an empty freeway to see what she'd do in 2nd ....... 6 weeks riding, 6 mths walking (not to mention the $2k fine and 6 points).

For me it's the perfect bike although I'd put a diavel in the garage in a heartbeat if I had the money ;p

[davereid]

I think the 650 twins are restricted in order to meet the power/weight also. None of the LAMS bikes are "fast" or unsuitable for a learner, unless you get a ZZR400 and plop a ZZR600 motor in it, like I did last year. :facepalm:

Popular opinion on KB is that we will be getting the Victorian list from Australia.

It lists bikes like the Ninja 650 as LAMs approved, so they will get a big tick here.

Except most of the kiwi ones came ex factory with 2 bros or Leo vince zorsts, so weigh less and make more power than the Oz ones.

And as the NZTA are going to write LAMS on the rego label, once you get that LAMs tag you are free to go, even with your power commander, yoshi pipes and K&N high flow kit.

God bless the NZTA.

[ducatilover]

Popular opinion on KB is that we will be getting the Victorian list from Australia.

It lists bikes like the Ninja 650 as LAMs approved, so they will get a big tick here.

Except most of the kiwi ones came ex factory with 2 bros or Leo vince zorsts, so weigh less and make more power than the Oz ones.

And as the NZTA are going to write LAMS on the rego label, once you get that LAMs tag you are free to go, even with your power commander, yoshi pipes and K&N high flow kit.

God bless the NZTA.
I was fairly sure all carbed bikes had the same set up as U.K ones with the restrictor in the intakes? A Hyo 650 is a lot faster than a 4cyl 250, think about it, are you letting the learners on a sub 200kg, 70 plus hp machine?
If they're not restricted, then it's stupid.

[davereid]

I was fairly sure all carbed bikes had the same set up as U.K ones with the restrictor in the intakes?

The Ninja 650 has two fuel injected throttle bodies, and a catalystic converter as standard.

Removing the Catalystic converter allows you to retune the bike properly, as catalystic converters require an excessivly rich mixture to work properly. So they respond nicely to a new few simple tuning rules. Mine came new with the Leo Vince pipe.

I also see that Suzuki NZ are putting free 2 Bros exhausts on bikes during the summer fest, so I imagine our 650 fleet will be more powerful from new than the oz one.

Oz restricts parallel importing, so most of their bikes are exactly as the manufacturer said they would be for the Oz market. NZ does not restrict parallel imports so your new bike could have been officially, or unofficially imported from anywhere on the globe, and could have significantly better (or worse lol) specs than the Oz model.

[darkone]

I believe the ninja 650 uses the same engine as the er6n ... if so the method of restricting it will probably be the same.
The er6n lams I test rode over here had a stop in the twist grip so you could only open the throttle part way.
The gladius was restricted through the ecu, so much more expensive to de-restrict.

[Bassmatt]

I believe the ninja 650 uses the same engine as the er6n ... if so the method of restricting it will probably be the same.
The er6n lams I test rode over here had a stop in the twist grip so you could only open the throttle part way.
The gladius was restricted through the ecu, so much more expensive to de-restrict.

Yep same in the UK (er6). There is also some plug thing under the seat to be sorted but apparently thats a 2 second job

[quickbuck]

I do hope that the old 2T 350/400's etc are not part of LAM's.... I know there are many of us 'fucking old bastards who don't know shit'!!! who rode 500 H1's, RD400/350's, NS400, RG4/500's etc and know they are in no way learner friendly.

Rest assured, any 2t 250 or bigger will not be on the LAMS list as far as I know...
You are right.... They go much better once you have a bit of time up, and haven't scared yourself whitless.

[ducatilover]

The Ninja 650 has two fuel injected throttle bodies, and a catalystic converter as standard.

Removing the Catalystic converter allows you to retune the bike properly, as catalystic converters require an excessivly rich mixture to work properly. So they respond nicely to a new few simple tuning rules. Mine came new with the Leo Vince pipe.

I also see that Suzuki NZ are putting free 2 Bros exhausts on bikes during the summer fest, so I imagine our 650 fleet will be more powerful from new than the oz one.

Oz restricts parallel importing, so most of their bikes are exactly as the manufacturer said they would be for the Oz market. NZ does not restrict parallel imports so your new bike could have been officially, or unofficially imported from anywhere on the globe, and could have significantly better (or worse lol) specs than the Oz model.
I would have expected the injected models to be retuned with the use of an EPROM chip in the ECU for a re-writeable fuel map? Or a piggy back system over the ECU.
Having unrestricted 650 twins on a learner list makes no sense.


I believe the ninja 650 uses the same engine as the er6n ... if so the method of restricting it will probably be the same.
The er6n lams I test rode over here had a stop in the twist grip so you could only open the throttle part way.
The gladius was restricted through the ecu, so much more expensive to de-restrict.
The throttle stop idea is brilliant, easy to test for LAMS compliance and cheap.
If you get pulled, on your restricted/learners and your throttle stop is missing, then you'll get bum raped.

A very good idea :yes:

[Nastrond]

I wonder how long the owner of this bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-438484180.htm) had been riding before deciding it was a good idea to buy a brand new 200hp litre bike?Probably not as long as these guys http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/145046-Riders-down-all-OK.-Video?highlight=cruiser+crash

[ducatilover]

Probably not as long as these guys http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/145046-Riders-down-all-OK.-Video?highlight=cruiser+crash
They had fuck all HP (after you add all the bikes up too) :facepalm:

[dangerous]

Ya know, all these pages refering to power being the issue... Yet no ones mentioned power control is only one thing to worry about a thour, but what about suspension set up, that alone can put you on ya arse... does a learner going from a 250 to a 6 or thour relise this? the wrong set up for the indervidual can make the difference to survival.

[ducatilover]

Ya know, all these pages refering to power being the issue... Yet no ones mentioned power control is only one thing to worry about a thour, but what about suspension set up, that alone can put you on ya arse... does a learner going from a 250 to a 6 or thour relise this? the wrong set up for the indervidual can make the difference to survival.

Or a nOOb going from carbied 250 to a fuel injected big bike, crack the throttle a wee bit too much... :facepalm:

Fuck it, get a thousand, do it ya pussy.

[p.dath]

Ya know, all these pages refering to power being the issue... Yet no ones mentioned power control is only one thing to worry about a thour, but what about suspension set up, that alone can put you on ya arse... does a learner going from a 250 to a 6 or thour relise this? the wrong set up for the indervidual can make the difference to survival.

Referring only to road bikes; someone asked me about tyres a while ago, and I said there are no bad tyres any more, just tyres designed for different applications. You just need to choose the tyres suited to the application you want to use them for.

Referring only to road bikes; I don't know much about suspension. Are there any new 1000cc bikes that come out with "bad" suspension?

[bluebird]

If your on a Hyosung GT250 the obvious step up would be a GT650, same ergos, similar feel, but way more horses, why a 1000? you'll kill yourself in no time, it only takes one wrong moment of giving in to temptation on one of those beasts when you are a noob. :no:

[gatch]

Fuck it, get a thousand, do it ya pussy.

After reviewing the information at hand, I concur. Wholeheartedly.

And turbo it, you girl.

[dangerous]

I don't know much about suspension. Are there any new 1000cc bikes that come out with "bad" suspension?well not so much as bad but the 2012 gsr750 for example has no adjustments what so ever I was more refering to correct set up for the rider, eg take LilM and her R6 when she 1st got it, incorect set up for her 54kg body (set for some fat arsed prick) and whilest on the track it sent her straight into the concrete wall, and I will add she knows how to handle a bike with such power.

Does the thread starter know how to set up a bikes suspension corectly to suit himself?

[Sliver]

this has so much responce you should have made it a poll

[DrunkenMistake]

If your on a Hyosung GT250 the obvious step up would be a GT650, same ergos, similar feel, but way more horses, why a 1000? you'll kill yourself in no time, it only takes one wrong moment of giving in to temptation on one of those beasts when you are a noob. :no:

The obvious step up is never the step up people want to take,
I dont pick my bike because it's then next obvious step up,
But Bluebird has a point, you wanna be looking at a V4 400, like an NC30 or CBR 400, even an older model CBR 600, not enough kick to make your tonsils become your balls when you twist the grip, but enough to give your nuts a real good tickle, especially after coming of a Vtwin 250, your 250 hyo has about 30 hp at the crank, my old CBR 250 was what.. 40 - 45hp at the crank and when I had it on a Dyno it was 38.8 at the wheel, so that alone is a significant difference to your twin, wrap that up another 20 hp at the wheel and your looking at a well used VFR 400 NC30 so thats almost double what your 250 can put out, thats the best way that I can put it to explain what I mean by a tickle in your balls.

[Nastrond]

With the experience with bikes that the OP has, suspension set-up will not come into the equation unless he is going to give it some round a track.

On the road he will come no where near to testing the suspension set-up even if it has not been set up for him. Most important will be the right attitude and sheer concentration to keep 160 plus HP rubber side down

[mossy1200]

Just get a MT01 1670cc.

88hp
0 to 100 in 47 secs

Do you think your desire to live over rides the stupidity of your right hand wrist?

If it does buy what you want.If it doesnt keep your 250 till it does.

[gatch]

With the experience with bikes that the OP has, suspension set-up will not come into the equation unless he is going to give it some round a track.

On the road he will come no where near to testing the suspension set-up even if it has not been set up for him. Most important will be the right attitude and sheer concentration to keep 160 plus HP rubber side down

Suspension will be sorely tested when he grabs a big ol handful of brakes mid turn, or backs off the gas mid slide..

[dangerous]

With the experience with bikes that the OP has, suspension set-up will not come into the equation unless he is going to give it some round a track.

On the road he will come no where near to testing the suspension set-up even if it has not been set up for him. Most important will be the right attitude and sheer concentration to keep 160 plus HP rubber side down:no:


Suspension will be sorely tested when he grabs a big ol handful of brakes mid turn, or backs off the gas mid slide..farking aye... it has everything to do with it reguardles of speed' one little bump at 60k can upset the bike specially of the calerbra we are talking, of course to an experanced rider it would be unnoticed.

[skippa1]

the fact that the question has been asked may be the best indication that the op is not ready:innocent:

[Nastrond]

Just get a MT01 1670cc.

88hp
0 to 100 in 47 secs

Do you think your desire to live over rides the stupidity of your right hand wrist?

If it does buy what you want.If it doesnt keep your 250 till it does.


Suspension will be sorely tested when he grabs a big ol handful of brakes mid turn, or backs off the gas mid slide..If he grabs a handful of brake mid turn at speed he's fucked whatever the suspension set-up is. Same goes for chopping the throttle mid corner. In both these situations the main player in saving the rider would be quality tyres. If you go too hot into a corner the best thing to do is apply more lean, not brake and and try and ride it out. Unfortunately for newer riders the outcome is panic and they try to stand the bike up and we've all seen the outcome that this could bring.

As far as suspension set-up is concerned mine is set for roughly someone who weighs around 10-15 kg's more than me cause I prefer it on the firm side. A lot of older bikes don't have adjustable suspension so they have to suite riders over a vast range of weights. You just have to ride within your capabilities and the capabilities of the bike you are on. The main thing is that the suspension is not shagged. As I said and I stand by it, is that under normal riding conditions (legal highway speeds, suspension set up is not overly important. On the track, it's crucial)

[Nastrond]

:no:

farking aye... it has everything to do with it reguardles of speed' one little bump at 60k can upset the bike specially of the calerbra we are talking, of course to an experanced rider it would be unnoticed.If a rider unsettles a bike at 60km and can't handle the outcome, he/she shouldn't be riding it in the first place. These bikes are fantastic machines but they can end your life in heartbeat.

At highway speeds "under 100km per hour" the result in loss of control after hitting a bump is more likely to be a sudden twist of the throttle followed by panic

[p.dath]

If he grabs a handful of brake mid turn at speed he's fucked whatever the suspension set-up is. Same goes for chopping the throttle mid corner. In both these situations the main player in saving the rider would be quality tyres....

Can't say I agree with that statement.

Applying the front brake mid-corner makes the bike stand up and the most common consequence when it goes wrong is that the rider looses control and rides off the outside of the corner, or rides wide and hits an oncoming vehicle.
I'd suggest that only a very tiny minority of loss of control accidents going around a corner on the road are the result of a front wheel wash out from over braking in a corner. And apart from that case, "quality" tyres aren't going to make any difference.

Chopping the throttle mid-corner destabilises the bike. Often causing the bike to change its line. Sure, a small number of cases on the road (and I mean small) could cause a loss of traction, but on the whole, "quality" tyres will make no difference to the direction the bike will now be heading in.


No matter how much you paid for your tyres, you are not going to be saved by them (expect for in a very very special cases) on the road from using too much front brake or chopping the throttle mid-corner.

[Nastrond]

Can't say I agree with that statement.

Applying the front brake mid-corner makes the bike stand up and the most common consequence when it goes wrong is that the rider looses control and rides off the outside of the corner, or rides wide and hits an oncoming vehicle.
I'd suggest that only a very tiny minority of loss of control accidents going around a corner on the road are the result of a front wheel wash out from over braking in a corner. And apart from that case, "quality" tyres aren't going to make any difference.

Chopping the throttle mid-corner destabilises the bike. Often causing the bike to change its line. Sure, a small number of cases on the road (and I mean small) could cause a loss of traction, but on the whole, "quality" tyres will make no difference to the direction the bike will now be heading in.


No matter how much you paid for your tyres, you are not going to be saved by them (expect for in a very very special cases) on the road from using too much front brake or chopping the throttle mid-corner.Maybe I'm reading this wrong but your agreeing with a lot of what I have said.

Braking mid corner as you say makes the bike stand up as you say and also the rider thinks that the bike may slide and his reaction is to stand the bike up rather than leaning harder making it run wide. This happens with a small amount of brake. When I replied to the earlier thread a fistful of brake was mentioned.

A little trail braking is good if you are confident and know how much to use it.

Tyres and grip are everything. Its what keeps you on the road and you need the grip for harder leaning

Your quote: No matter how much you paid for your tyres, you are not going to be saved by them (expect for in a very very special cases) on the road from using too much front brake or chopping the throttle mid-corner. 'Thats what I said a fistful of brake or chopping the throttle"

This explains it better than me. http://www.motorcyclephilosophy.org/2008/05/riding-motorcycle-too-fast-corner.html

[gatch]

Tyres and grip are everything. Its what keeps you on the road and you need the grip for harder leaning



No.

What keeps your tires in contact with the ground ?

EDIT - That website you posted is full of chest beating fuckheads.

[dangerous]

LMFAO... scraping shit shouldnt happen... I wonder if the thread starter knows anything about correct body position, again like susoension something a green hairy arsed newbe will not have had time to perfect befor geting this suposed 1000

256112 get what Im saying... power is just one factor and reason why a jump from a 250 to 1000 is too much.

[Nastrond]

No.

What keeps your tires in contact with the ground ?

EDIT - That website you posted is full of chest beating fuckheads.We both know that. This was origionally about correct suspension set-up for the riders weight on the road which as I said it isn't such a big issue on the road as it is on a track as a lot of bikes do not have adjustable suspension anyway. What is important is that the suspension is in good working order. Not leaking or worn etc

EDIT - That website you posted is full of chest beating fuckheads :laugh:

[Nastrond]

LMFAO... scraping shit shouldnt happen... I wonder if the thread starter knows anything about correct body position, again like susoension something a green hairy arsed newbe will not have had time to perfect befor geting this suposed 1000

256112 get what Im saying... power is just one factor and reason why a jump from a 250 to 1000 is too much.Your right it shouldn't and I don't know the OP so can't comment on his skill set but in my opinion unless you have ridden for a few years I wouldn't advise jumping from a 250cc to a litre bike. Theres a huge diffeence. Not saying it can't be done successfully but going up through the powerband on different bikes will make for a better rider.

Doesn't everyone ride like that then:scratch:

256116

[baffa]

I think it depends on the mindset.
Going from a 250 to anything above a 600 demands a complete change of riding style. Roads I would be thrashing my 250 around I feel like im idling in comparison on a bigger bike. But if you have respect for the bike and dont push your boundries, you can get away with the leap.

[dangerous]

fuck you people aint listening to ya selves... we all mostely agree its a bad move to do the learners 250 jump to thour or even 600 however its not just one reason alone that makes it a bad choice to do such a move, its not 'just' the power its not 'just' the suspension and its not just tyres or 'mindset' Its the hole bloody shabang its time in the saddle and knolage.

Now weres the farking thread starter, the prick proberly sitting back pissing himself silly with no intent what so ever of buying a thour...

[Sliver]

have you done it yet?

[tigertim20]

fuck you people aint listening to ya selves... we all mostely agree its a bad move to do the learners 250 jump to thour or even 600 however its not just one reason alone that makes it a bad choice to do such a move, its not 'just' the power its not 'just' the suspension and its not just tyres or 'mindset' Its the hole bloody shabang its time in the saddle and knolage.

Now weres the farking thread starter, the prick proberly sitting back pissing himself silly with no intent what so ever of buying a thour...

agree with the 'its not just one thing' sentiment. A pity people dont have the common fucking sense to go and try a few bikes of increasing capacity, even just test rides, to get some idea of what they are dealing with. If they'd do that in the first place, they'd answer their own question.

[arkeo]

Short answer: In my opinion yes, one can move from 250 to 1000.

I ran through the thread and I found quite different opinions, as it should be given the kind of question. My personal history is a bit strange and I'll avoid bothering people with. To summarize, after a whole life owing nothing but my legs, I became the happy owner of a CBR 919. I emphasize that I am not crazy and believe to be at least average wise (whether true or not I let others say it, of course...). It took a month to get out of my garden, a couple of months to get out of the neighborhood of my house and after several weeks I was able to attend the simplest group rides.

If I were to judge from my history I would say that being cautious and always aware it is possible to move not only from 250 to 1000 but even from 0 to 1000. There is more than this simple statement: some drawbacks I was warned against to, happened exactly the way they were pointed out to me. But it was too late to rewind my mental patterns (to name only one: when I made an attempt on a bike with normal handlebars I fell down...). I can say only now, after 3 years, that since I skipped the correct, gradual learning path I became unable to take full advantage of all the possibilities of my present bike; BTW I say always "drive" instead of "ride", for obvious reasons :D Also, needless to say, cost are to be taken into account: tires, chain, general maintenance, insurance, taxes (but this of course depends upon the country...), and so on. In the racing tracks I am always the slowest and I know that is partly due to have skipped over a correct learning curve.

If I were able to go back in time and 1) the circumstances allowed 2) if I wanted to try to compete, I would have followed another path. As far as I can tell, there is not a so great difference between 600 and 1000 (I had several chances to drive 600 cc bikes). Instead, I think that I would have taken vantage of some 250-400 cc. Maybe in that range lie bikes halfway between a learning tool and the "big ones".

All this in case the OP were more interested in sport bikes; I guess that otherwise there would be other things to say.

Of course, excuse for my English; hope to be at least a bit understandable.

A.

[ellipsis]

...simple solution...get a sportster...

[GrayWolf]

...simple solution...get a sportster...

or an MT-01 :yes:

[Jantar]

All discussion over the past 10 days has been moot. The OP hasn't visited KB since 15th January 2012. :facepalm:

[ellipsis]

....he may have opted for a van and gone fishin...

[James Deuce]

As if the fishing here wasn't any good!

[tigertim20]

All discussion over the past 10 days has been moot. The OP hasn't visited KB since 15th January 2012. :facepalm:

ok, so he bought a thou, and killed himself???

[FJRider]

ok, so he bought a thou, and killed himself???

A Suzuki thou would cause that ... shame does strange things to a mans mind ... :innocent:

[Nastrond]

A Suzuki thou would cause that ... shame does strange things to a mans mind ... :innocent:Your not joking either but its also physical.

Reflexes are lightning quick. Eyesight super sharp with the balance of a tightrope walker and the bravery of a soldier. Not only that but women run up to me at traffic lights withs lacy garments in their hand asking for my number and men ask me what its like to be a riding god mastering such a powerful machine and I just reply with a wink and say "life's good man" :yeah: ...........:msn-wink:

[FJRider]

Your not joking either but its also physical.

Reflexes are lightning quick. Eyesight super sharp with the balance of a tightrope walker and the bravery of a soldier. Not only that but women run up to me at traffic lights withs lacy garments in their hand asking for my number and men ask me what its like to be a riding god mastering such a powerful machine and I just reply with a wink and say "life's good man" :yeah: ...........:msn-wink:

The risk of injury WOULD be great too ... especially when you wake up after you fall out of bed ... :lol:

[Bobbyman]

I just went from a Ninja 250 to a 1litre.... Reasons being that I felt like i wanted a bigger bike that is made for a guy my size and has a bit of grunt. Also I've been riding on the road for a while now (28,000k's over a bit over a couple of years on the ninja) and felt like I was prepared for it.. In saying that I bought a twin (SV1000) rather than a zx10r or an R1 or something ridiculously outrageous with alot of that midrange and highend acceleration. I just think that if you're going to go straight to a big bike don't be daft and get the one with the highest speeds you see on youtube. Especially if you wouldn't be used to a proper 4 cylinder super sporty bikes riding a Hyo 250...

[nzspokes]

Im on 250. I reckon I could cope with a CB1000 ok. Then again Im not after warp speed.

[Sliver]

All discussion over the past 10 days has been moot. The OP hasn't visited KB since 15th January 2012. :facepalm:

LOL!!!:facepalm:

[nzspokes]

But its still a worthwhile topic.

[DrunkenMistake]

LOL!!!:facepalm:


Way to contribute to the thread there.

[dangerous]

Im on 250. I reckon I could cope with a CB1000 ok. Then again Im not after warp speed.
so... ya have the experance to react corectly should it turn turtle, you know how to read the road and by that I mean whats around the corner by cages comming at you, ya got a mean riding position sorted nother words you lean not the bike, bikes there as a reservr should you need it, experanced in snow, rain, wind asian drivers, earthquakes and mecanical failer? cos it will happen at warp speed them CB's pull like a school boy man... but hey at least its not a fully feired bike so should ya fuck up it wont be to higher a acc levie hike

Mate you could very well cope with a CB1 and never have any issues and continu learning as you go, but whats the farking rush? serious why does this y or x whatever geration have to go straight to a 1000?

[tigertim20]

Im on 250. I reckon I could cope with a CB1000 ok. Then again Im not after warp speed.

didnt you say a while ago that all youve ever ridden was 250's? - the attitude of 'im sure I could handle it' is a large part of the problem.
have you test ridden a cb thou on a gentle test? on a spirited ride? in the wet?

its not about what you are after, its about genuinely understanding what actually happens when an engine with that much power starts moving. the delivery at 4k rpm on a CB thou is probably already 10 horsepower more than max hp on your 250. you simply cannot understand that until youve ridden one at varying degrees of anger to feel whats happening. the comment highlights how naive you are when it comes to the reality of these bikes.
I came from a 600 to a thou, and it took some time before I was ready to ask it to do half of what it is capable of doing.

[ducatilover]

the delivery at 4k rpm on a CB thou is probably already 10 horsepower more than max hp on your 250.<_<

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/ttrdhs/TT RDHS/Dyno/DynoCB.jpg

[tigertim20]

cheers for that ducatilover, highlights my point. thats 50hp at 4k rpm, easily more than twice max HP of a CB250 rs I would think

[nzspokes]

didnt you say a while ago that all youve ever ridden was 250's? - the attitude of 'im sure I could handle it' is a large part of the problem.
have you test ridden a cb thou on a gentle test? on a spirited ride? in the wet?

its not about what you are after, its about genuinely understanding what actually happens when an engine with that much power starts moving. the delivery at 4k rpm on a CB thou is probably already 10 horsepower more than max hp on your 250. you simply cannot understand that until youve ridden one at varying degrees of anger to feel whats happening. the comment highlights how naive you are when it comes to the reality of these bikes.
I came from a 600 to a thou, and it took some time before I was ready to ask it to do half of what it is capable of doing.

I didnt say I was going to rush out and buy one. Im looking more 500 to 600.

It was a general comment.

And to be clear. A CB would have more hp at idle then my 250.

[nzspokes]

cheers for that ducatilover, highlights my point. thats 50hp at 4k rpm, easily more than twice max HP of a CB250 rs I would think

Yaw, my CBx250rs has 31 tyre ripping HP. Well it did when it was new. 25 years ago.

[DrunkenMistake]

Yaw, my CBx250rs has 31 tyre ripping HP. Well it did when it was new. 25 years ago.


In saying that, my 22 year old 250 pushed out 38.8 Hp at the wheel....
256281

I thought I had the Dyno chart picture but I cant seem to find it, only the one from my 400.

[NordieBoy]

Yaw, my CBx250rs has 31 tyre ripping HP. Well it did when it was new. 25 years ago.

Crank ripping hp or tyre ripping hp?

My '86 TT350 has about 23 at the rear wheel...

At 3000rpm it's already matched the max torque of a CRF250X...

[nzspokes]

Crank ripping hp or tyre ripping hp?

My '86 TT350 has about 23 at the rear wheel...

At 3000rpm it's already matched the max torque of a CRF250X...

But thats dirty HP.

No idea how they measure my cbx hp. But im stuffed how they get a 160kph spec top speed. 141 is the best ive had.

[DrunkenMistake]

But thats dirty HP.

No idea how they measure my cbx hp. But im stuffed how they get a 160kph spec top speed. 141 is the best ive had.

160kph minus real world factors, I.E wind, Road conditions, Riders weight, blah blah blah

[ducatilover]

But thats dirty HP.

No idea how they measure my cbx hp. But im stuffed how they get a 160kph spec top speed. 141 is the best ive had.
It'd be geared to around 160km/h I'd say.
31hp is respectable for a 250cc single if you ask me.
My VT250 Spada made 32 at the wheel standard and 36 when I was done with it. :laugh:


I reckon an XJ600 or something similar would suit you well. Or a Bandit 600. :yes:

That CB1000 that Enzo has is fecking heavy.
Makes me glad that my bike currently weighs in at 170kg dry (rather light in the real world, not the world of specs lol)

[Nastrond]

Just to give a few figures for newish rider thinking of moving up to a Litre bike

0-100kph comes in at well under 3 seconds
You can lose your license in first gear with speeds at around 165kph reached in a little over 5 seconds
Standing 1/4 mile in under 10 seconds with a trap speed of around 240 kph

When I made my mind up that was what I wanted no one was going to change my mind and I took a fireblade and GSX-R for a test ride. The first was the GSX-R. The sales guy rolled it out of the showroom, gave me the key and I fired it up. I kid you not my right leg was shaking when the engine burst into life. I didn't even want to ride it after that point but there were people in and outside the showroom watching so couldn't really shit out then.

Clicked into first gear, applied a few revs and started to slip the clutch. Stalled the fucking thing.......twice! Scared of giving it too much and being left sitting in the middle of the road wondering where the bike went.

Took the Blade for a test ride. Different ride to the Suzuki. Whereas the Suzuki has a more linear power but more low down grunt delivery the Blade was easier to ride under 4000rpm, after that the power comes on really strongly and can easily catch you out especially mid-corner.

These bike are fantastic but sometime you get a little too much of what you want. I'm not trying to put anyone off buying one but make sure you get it for the right reason. Mine is a do it all bike Commute, twisties and track and I wouldn't swop it for anything less.

Good luck with whatever you purchase, ride safe and make sure you wear all your gear all of the time

[baffa]

Im on 250. I reckon I could cope with a CB1000 ok. Then again Im not after warp speed.

Rode a predator in the weekend. the rolling torque was awesome. Almost didnt want to get back on my fireblade after that.
I left it in 6th and got as low as 45 km/hr, it still pulled strongly even though the engine was basically idling. Fantastic bike, and I didnt stop grinning the whole time I was on it. A big leap from 250s sure, but I think most people would be quite comfortable on it.

[James Deuce]

Rode a predator in the weekend. the rolling torque was awesome. Almost didnt want to get back on my fireblade after that.
I left it in 6th and got as low as 45 km/hr, it still pulled strongly even though the engine was basically idling. Fantastic bike, and I didnt stop grinning the whole time I was on it. A big leap from 250s sure, but I think most people would be quite comfortable on it.

Wrong CB1000.

[baffa]

Wrong CB1000.

Exactly, If it isnt a preddy, it is the wrong bike :msn-wink:

[Paul in NZ]

Well - I 'probably' shouldn't post in this thread as I don't ride sports bikes very often and my preference is definately of the ancient flavour. Having said that I've ridden a lot of these bikes (badly) and seen a lot of people hurt themselves on all manner of motorcycle. In short if age and experience in any way contributes to knowledge then I may as well offer an opinion.

Yes - with a 600 you will get used to the acceleration (in a straight line) relatively quicker than with a 1000. However since both of them will loose you your license easily in a straight line this is a moot point. P is rather addictive and provides quite a rush but the end result is very predictable - so is riding either choice hard on the motorway.

If you are getting bored with a 600 the chances are you have not quite really got to grips with what the bike is about OR its not set up terribly well. Frankly I struggle recalibrating my mind and shifting my body about on a good 600 over a decent road. Its a real art to get the best out of these bikes. If you cant truely master that on a 600 you will have no chance on a 1000 but you will start using the extra power to disguise the fact that you really can't ride for shit. Believe it or not there is a LOT of that out there!!!!

Buy the 600 and put the $$ you save on rego into a few training days or track days or some good gear. You wont regret it IF you can recalibrate your brain....

[GrayWolf]

Rode a predator in the weekend. the rolling torque was awesome. Almost didnt want to get back on my fireblade after that.
I left it in 6th and got as low as 45 km/hr, it still pulled strongly even though the engine was basically idling. Fantastic bike, and I didnt stop grinning the whole time I was on it. A big leap from 250s sure, but I think most people would be quite comfortable on it.

There's a lot to be said for the 'naked/standard' bikes with retuned engines for torque and mid range power. That top gear roll on is addictive very quickly. My poor Zed is sulking, I haven't ridden her in 3 weeks, such is the enjoyment I get on the empty one.

[Ender EnZed]

There's a lot to be said for the 'naked/standard' bikes with retuned engines for torque and mid range power.

There really is. Without doing the slightest bit of research... I suspect that quite often the "detuned" naked version is actually making more power in any gear at 100km/h than the sports version.

[DrunkenMistake]

Woohoo! found it!

I knew I had it somewhere, was burred in the depths of my facebook haha
256385