(Video) Katman bait

[EJK]

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[p.dath]

I'll be with Katman on this one.

There was plenty of time to react and brake. Also the traffic was moving at a reasonable speed anyway - there was no need for lane splitting.

[NinjaNanna]

reasonable time to react - you're kidding me right?

Then again that's why I rarely lane split

[wanpo]

there was no need for lane splitting.

There is if you're on a fireblade.

Nah, seen this one before, just a lack of forethought, he was lucky that the first truck saw him and stopped turning, but I guess he didn't see the warning signs and lightning doesn't strike twice.

(it strikes 7 times)
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[Scuba_Steve]

reasonable time to react - you're kidding me right?

Then again that's why I rarely lane split

Yea I'm with NinjaNanna, I only saw 1 flash of the indicator before he turned & that was when the bike was right on his bumper.
I know the likes of Katman thinks old car racing games are realistic with their instant stops, but in real life it takes longer than 1 second to stop

Not saying his lane split was sensible or not just saying he didn't have the time to react.

[Katman]

Not saying his lane split was sensible

That's lucky, cos the gap in the traffic on his right would suggest it wasn't.

[sinfull]

I know the likes of Katman thinks old car racing games are realistic with their instant stops, but in real life it takes longer than 1 second to stop

. Like to know where you get that idea from, from where i stand KM only ever states we should all ride more responsibly so we don't need to have to stop where we cant !

[Virago]

...I know the likes of Katman thinks old car racing games are realistic with their instant stops, but in real life it takes longer than 1 second to stop...

Can you link us to any instances where Katman has suggested any such thing?

[cheshirecat]

As per Katman. Enough warning with the space on the right..

[Kendog]

I saw a couple of flashes of the right indicator, plus the gap on the right between the trucks.

Make my conclusion of fault pretty easy.

[p.dath]

Yea I'm with NinjaNanna, I only saw 1 flash of the indicator before he turned & that was when the bike was right on his bumper.

The flashing indicator was not the thing to be looking at. The first thing I noticed was when the front right tyre start to angle itself. From then on it was obvious what the driver was about to do.

[TrentNz]

Gap of traffic means nothing
he passed another gap of traffic beforehand.. oh look no one turned into their how strange :facepalm:

[Scuba_Steve]

Can you link us to any instances where Katman has suggested any such thing?

No, I can't work this search thing well enough, but troll round you'll find them. Obviously he never directly says "bikes can stop in 1sec" so don't take it literally


The flashing indicator was not the thing to be looking at. The first thing I noticed was when the front right tyre start to angle itself. From then on it was obvious what the driver was about to do.

From what I see his tyre doesn't turn till after the indicator starts to flash. I'd say the indicator starts late 8secs, turns starts 9secs.

I will say however it looks like he more relied on the ute seeing him & letting him past than trying to avoid it. I'll also say it's hard to judge from a vid seems more a "you had to be there" thing

[nodrog]

OMG! EJK are you ok?

[Ender EnZed]

Gap of traffic means nothing

http://chan.catiewayne.com/z/src/131393015058.jpg


he passed another gap of traffic beforehand.. oh look no one turned into their how strange :facepalm:

This is like saying that if you've ever had a gun pointed at you and not been shot then guns can't hurt you.

[Scuba_Steve]

This is like saying that if you've ever had a gun pointed at you and not been shot then guns can't hurt you.

Last I checked they can't hurt you... They require an external force manipulating them to pose any threat/harm.
Cause I could be wrong maybee there is a gun out there running round with AI of it's own. Actually there probably is, we are at a time when unmanned military equipment is becoming the norm...

[Ender EnZed]

Last I checked they can't hurt you... They require an external force manipulating them to pose any threat/harm.
Cause I could be wrong maybee there is a gun out there running round with AI of it's own. Actually there probably is, we are at a time when unmanned military equipment is becoming the norm...

*Sighs*

Alright then, it's like saying you can't be shot.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFfgxm-DeCyJ4szCgVupUk5A0BMyXTSfbgOwHuQlbGzyxWOk2R

[Str8 Jacket]

That motorcyclist deserves all he got!

[Scuba_Steve]

*Sighs*

Alright then, it's like saying you can't be shot.


:laugh: I was just fucking with technicalities, but that's more accurate :yes:


That motorcyclist deserves all he got!

bit harsh ain't ya???

[george formby]

My first clue was when he accelerated into the gap while the traffic apparently slowed.

[riffer]

You could argue this until the cows came home but the fact of the matter is that powered four wheelers have a huge blind spot in the very area that lane splitting takes advantage of.

Until riders realise this and act accordingly this sort of accident will continue to happen.

"ride like they don't see you" seems both fitting and ironic here.

[Str8 Jacket]

bit harsh ain't ya???



"ride like they don't see you" seems both fitting and ironic here.

Nah, riffer has it right. I learn't very early on that most accidents I had when I started riding where in fact my fault to some degree. Sometimes they were my fault cause I rode like a dick and sometimes because had I have been actually being paying attention to what was going on around me I could have avoided the incident all together. I choose to be careful now, I learn't my lesson!

[Fatt Max]

I dont think he waved either

[onearmedbandit]

I don't know who the bigger douche-bag is, the rider or those on this forum who despite showing the ability to read and write still can't understand KM's message.

[riffer]

I don't know who the bigger douche-bag is, the rider or those on this forum who despite showing the ability to read and write still can't understand KM's message.

It's like they say Fraser, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think.

[FJRider]

This is merely another rider making a video ... with the intended purpose of making the rider look good.... :pinch:

But ... the actual result ... is the exact opposite ... :facepalm:

[skippa1]

I don't know who the bigger douche-bag is, the rider or those on this forum who despite showing the ability to read and write still can't understand KM's message.

Its been said before, its not the message its the delivery:blink:

[onearmedbandit]

Its been said before, its not the message its the delivery:blink:

Argued that myself. But then realised that the 'gently gently softly softly' delivery had no impact. Look who has got the most people talking about the 'issue'. Those that say 'oh that sucks bro, get well soon' or those that say 'do you think there was something you could have done about it to avoid it in the first place'? Sure, when you're banged up it's that last thing you want to hear, but in all reality it should be the only thing you pay attention to.

[FJRider]

The flashing indicator was not the thing to be looking at. The first thing I noticed was when the front right tyre start to angle itself. From then on it was obvious what the driver was about to do.

When the larger percentage of of people dont indicate their intention to change lanes .... the odd's of a non-notified lane change ... are high. :shutup:

Splitting lanes with multi-axel trucks (on the drivers blind side) and 4x4's ...with a marginal gap to start with ... :eek:

[skippa1]

Argued that myself. But then realised that the 'gently gently softly softly' delivery had no impact. Look who has got the most people talking about the 'issue'. Those that say 'oh that sucks bro, get well soon' or those that say 'do you think there was something you could have done about it to avoid it in the first place'? Sure, when you're banged up it's that last thing you want to hear, but in all reality it should be the only thing you should pay attention to.

I hear you and I would like to agree, but KM hasnt got the majority talking about the issues, he just agitates/trolls and pisses them off, then ducks out popping in just enough to keep himself in the frame. That isnt getting the message through, not if the message is his genuine purpose for posting:no:

[FJRider]

I hear you and I would like to agree, but KM hasnt got the majority talking about the issues, he just agitates/trolls and pisses them off, then ducks out popping in just enough to keep himself in the frame. That isnt getting the message through, not if the message is his genuine purpose for posting:no:

Everybody knows what the "issues" are ... just the varying opinions on those "issues" spurs the "talking" about the "issues" ...

If we ALL were pessimistic about EVERY other road user ... at ALL times ... we would ALL be likely to live a little longer.

Or at least be less likely to be involved in a collision with another vehicle ...

[Pussy]

beyond would have gone through there at 280km/h, riding fuggin awesomely.
Then he would have written a book about it saying how awesome he is, whilst telling us he's not trying to tell us he's awesome....

[skippa1]

Everybody knows what the "issues" are ... just the varying opinions on those "issues" spurs the "talking" about the "issues" ...

If we ALL were pessimistic about EVERY other road user ... at ALL times ... we would ALL be likely to live a little longer.

Or at least be less likely to be involved in a collision with another vehicle ...

good plan....we should all go emo:shit:thatll save us from accidents, then we can concentrate on cutting ourselves:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[98tls]

I hear you and I would like to agree, but KM hasnt got the majority talking about the issues, he just agitates/trolls and pisses them off, then ducks out popping in just enough to keep himself in the frame. That isnt getting the message through, not if the message is his genuine purpose for posting:no:

No doubt he has a life which has things far more important going on it like the rest of us,theres no full time baby sitting motorcyclist position avaliable here but he does give an opinion (its the internet everyones allowed one) and makes a point,it seems to annoy some for what reason i have no idea,along the way no doubt hes made a few think so its a win for him i reckon.On the video,fuck riding in traffic like that,if a bikes your transport to work etc then i guess theres no choice,ive no need nor desire to ride my bike anywhere near a city but if i had to i wouldnt bother with what that guy was doing..just a matter of time really.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Fucking homos, the lot of you:yes:

[Sliver]

i think it was bad on both sides, bike should of noticed that wheel turning, and the truck should of check its blind spots and given indercated better.

[caseye]

The Fuckwit GOT all he deserved and was lucky not to have been killed. I'm sick of seeing fucking idiots who lane split when traffic is moving, full stop. This guy had more time than most to see and react, but Oh No he's a biker and he's coming through. Dickhead!
Katmans message is perfectly understandable it';s just that so many of you testosterone'd young pups still don't get it.
It is YOU (or worse, some poor innocent other) who dies when in the right and taking on a cage/truck or bus.

[FJRider]

Fucking homos, the lot of you:yes:

Does being an Aucklander ... make you an expert at homo recognition ... ??? or just ... takes one to know one ... ??? :blink:

[pritch]

Katmans message is perfectly understandable it';s just that so many of you testosterone'd young pups still don't get it.


You are kidding right? It's no use rabbiting on some half arsed mantra, often with very inappropriate timing.
All that does is get people to put the troll on "ignore".

And if you were that good at observing the traffic around you, how the fuck would you accumulate 90 demerit points?

Yes, that is a rhetorical question.

[FJRider]

The Fuckwit GOT all he deserved and was lucky not to have been killed. I'm sick of seeing fucking idiots who lane split when traffic is moving, full stop. This guy had more time than most to see and react, but Oh No he's a biker and he's coming through. Dickhead!
Katmans message is perfectly understandable it';s just that so many of you testosterone'd young pups still don't get it.
It is YOU (or worse, some poor innocent other) who dies when in the right and taking on a cage/truck or bus.

It is seen by some ... the allowance of "right of way" to those that are not entitled to it, merely encourages them in future times ... <_<

Thus ... we must enforce our rights ... to the death if necessary ... :shutup: :facepalm:

[ckai]

Actually, if the dude (or dudette - no wait I think it was a dude) was riding to the "defensive driving code" and looking 12 seconds in front, he would of, in fact, missed the turning of the wheel. The subtle turing of the wheel would only be seen by a riders peripheral, or a driver for that matter, if they were in fact a brilliant driver/rider. Or, to put it in technical terms - fucken god!

The only reason any one watching that video would see it is because they: A) were looking at all the wheels and only the wheels, B) replayed the video to spot the exact time the wheels started turning.

The truth of the matter is, he shouldn't have been there to start with. Like someone said, splitting with shit bigger than you is asking for trouble.

You're kidding yourself if you think you could have spotted that in real life. If you did, you would crash down the road because you're too busy watching whats happening at your front wheel and not whats ahead.

As you were. Flame on...

[onearmedbandit]

Actually, if the dude (or dudette - no wait I think it was a dude) was riding to the "defensive driving code" and looking 12 seconds in front, he would of, in fact, missed the turning of the wheel. The subtle turing of the wheel would only be seen by a riders peripheral, or a driver for that matter, if they were in fact a brilliant driver/rider. Or, to put it in technical terms - fucken god!



Done a defensive driving course myself, and whilst we were taught to scan 12 seconds ahead we were never told to concentrate our field of vision there. Quite the contrary in fact, we were taught skills to develop all areas of vision. Just pointing it out.

[Fatt Max]

Argued that myself. But then realised that the 'gently gently softly softly' delivery had no impact. Look who has got the most people talking about the 'issue'. Those that say 'oh that sucks bro, get well soon' or those that say 'do you think there was something you could have done about it to avoid it in the first place'? Sure, when you're banged up it's that last thing you want to hear, but in all reality it should be the only thing you pay attention to.

and that is the point, perfectly fucking illustrated. Well done sir

[Clockwork]

You could argue this until the cows came home but the fact of the matter is that powered four wheelers have a huge blind spot in the very area that lane splitting takes advantage of.

Until riders realise this and act accordingly this sort of accident will continue to happen.

"ride like they don't see you" seems both fitting and ironic here.

Not sure I agree with this, Riffer. Lane splitters are perfectly placed to be visible to anyone who uses in their wing mirror.

[riffer]

Not sure I agree with this, Riffer. Lane splitters are perfectly placed to be visible to anyone who uses in their wing mirror.

Okay, I'll try and explain.

Drivers in a lane formation tend to develop a type of tunnel vision, which makes them less likely to check in peripheral and rear mirrors.

Generally, if they do decide to change lanes it's a split second decision made, and there's likely an only cursory glance given to the mirrors. Add to that many drivers act like the indicator is a magic lever which will clear all traffic from their path.

And the biggest one of all. The lane formation seems to hypnotise drivers into believing that the whole herd is travelling at the same speed. Motorcycles that are lane splitting therefore seem to "appear out of nowhere" quite simply because they ACTUALLY DO to those caught in the lane formation.

Lanesplitting can get you through the traffic at a damn good speed - I know, I do it daily. But I also recognise that I will spend a significant amount of time in the blind spot of drivers. And when the traffic is moving, no matter what speed, drivers absolutely WILL NOT look in their peripheral or rear views.

[FJRider]

Not sure I agree with this, Riffer. Lane splitters are perfectly placed to be visible to anyone who uses their wing mirror.

Highlighted ... is the small flaw in your arguement ...

To enter a gap that is decreasing as you enter is foolish ... and with no guarantee the driver of the vehicles have seen you ... let alone allowing you space to pass safely ... :Oops: :facepalm:

The dubious legality of lane-splitting ... plus the dubious nature of the mind-set of cage pilots, in rush-hour traffic ... combine to make it a risky proposition ... at best.

[GrayWolf]

The Fuckwit GOT all he deserved and was lucky not to have been killed. I'm sick of seeing fucking idiots who lane split when traffic is moving, full stop. This guy had more time than most to see and react, but Oh No he's a biker and he's coming through. Dickhead!
Katmans message is perfectly understandable it';s just that so many of you testosterone'd young pups still don't get it.
It is YOU (or worse, some poor innocent other) who dies when in the right and taking on a cage/truck or bus.


It is seen by some ... the allowance of "right of way" to those that are not entitled to it, merely encourages them in future times ... <_<

Thus ... we must enforce our rights ... to the death if necessary ... :shutup: :facepalm:

Thing is we all lane split at some time or another. It's the ''HOW' that is causing constant arguement. I for one am in the Caseye, Katman, (and yet to see Mr Duece's response) school of thought. Lane splitting may be 'technicaly' legal, but as I pointed out before in the event of an accident it will be seen as a contributory factor in the accident by insurance companies at the very least. What seems to be a national attitude and maybe worldwide to a great extent, is the speed motorcyclists choose to lane split.

Quote from the UK Police Motorcycle Roadcraft book: "The advantages of filtering along or between stopped or slow moving traffic have to be weighed against the disadvantages of increased vulnerability while filtering"

So really the video shows two errors on the riders part. They were not lane splitting SLOW moving or STATIONARY traffic, and they were not expecting the unexpected.
I often read a post saying that a rider has yet to see 'fast lane splitting' yet I observe it several times a week. So maybe the ones NOT seeing fast lane splitting are in fact 'fast lane splitting' themselves.
What I do observe is when its raining or cold? I hardly see a bike on the Hutt Motorway :shutup:
The 'advice' around lane splitting is (UK POLICE) if the traffic reaches 50kph, you should NOT be considering lane splitting, a cars manouvering ability is starting to become fast enough to cause concern. So ala the post I put in the 'sooooooo unfair' thread about joe numbnuts on his Gixxer undertaing me and 'lane splitting' at roughly 130-140kph, then 'swooping' across the front of the other vehicle into an exit lane???
Some here I guess will consider it 'lane splitting' some here will see 'Darwin in action', for his future.

[Ocean1]

You are kidding right? It's no use rabbiting on some half arsed mantra, often with very inappropriate timing.
All that does is get people to put the troll on "ignore".

Yup. I don't see any "message", just an ongoing string of finger-pointing and personal abuse wrapped in a popular nut nonetheless personal crusade.


Okay, I'll try and explain...

Mixture of failures to see and failures to look, there. Having said that, there's no difference in outcome. The video in question had me arse well puckered before the inevitable, speed difference way too risky for me, and that gap was just screaming trouble from exactly that direction.

[pritch]

On reflection, and after watching the clip again a couple of times, I just don't see the comments that the rider should have noticed the wheel turning, or the indicator working, are credible in the circumstances.

A turning wheel will often/usually be the first hint that another vehicle is going to change direction but it would need to be noticed a lot earlier than was possible on this occasion.

When I learned to ride it was often mentioned that you should maintain a clear space around yourself. If there's nothing close, there's nothing for you to hit, or to hit you. If some idiot moves into your space, thus removing it, create a new space.

The primary error of the rider, IMHO, is that he had very little space. That he was, as GW said, riding too fast, and not allowing for the unexpected, are also contributing factors.

The ute driver is, of course blameless.:whistle:

I'm going for a ride:shutup:

[Scuba_Steve]

Well had another look & everyone seems focused on the bike (cause he got hit) but based on NZ law (not sure about Mexico law) here's what I see.

- The biker did nothing illegal, stupid? some might think, but illegal no!
- The ute however failed to give 3-secs indication, failed to look, failed to give-way (hence the crash), was attempting to push his way into a gap that didn't exist, between 2 trucks no-less (i.e. that gap there was for the trucks braking NOT an extra) & ultimately was the instigator of the crash
- I'd also note the traffic wasn't traveling that fast, as the ute almost instantly stopped & the biker wasn't crushed by the truck. I wouldn't say anyone there including the bike got over 50km/h

[cheshirecat]

When I was doing a lot of riding in and around London after a while I developed the ability to pick out vehicles suddenly turing across ones path some way ahead. I could never work out what 'signals' that vehicle had given but i know it took until late monday or tuesdays before the "ability" returned proper after the weekend break. Even now I feel safer controlling traffic around me and lane splitting than riding shot gun between bumpers. Lane splitting consistantly safely over time however is a carefully developed acquired skill and not to be undertaken lightly. As Katman said the initial warning signals were NOT the vehicle but the space to its right and indeed the space in front of any vehicle you cant see.

[Coolz]

Because trucks take longer to stop and are slower accelerating when traffic speed increases there is usually a space in front of them. Cars in slower moving lanes often move into this space. Some even think the truck is making room for them. Just something to be aware of.

[p.dath]

Well had another look & everyone seems focused on the bike (cause he got hit) but based on NZ law (not sure about Mexico law) here's what I see.

- The biker did nothing illegal, stupid? some might think, but illegal no!
- The ute however failed to give 3-secs indication, failed to look, failed to give-way (hence the crash), was attempting to push his way into a gap that didn't exist, between 2 trucks no-less (i.e. that gap there was for the trucks braking NOT an extra) & ultimately was the instigator of the crash
- I'd also note the traffic wasn't traveling that fast, as the ute almost instantly stopped & the biker wasn't crushed by the truck. I wouldn't say anyone there including the bike got over 50km/h

Who is legally right is very cold comfort when your the one lying their on the ground in pain. Perhaps the rider will now understand why you don't lane split with traffic already moving at a reasonable speed, and why you need to keep the speed differential between you and the traffic flow low.

[riffer]

Who is legally right is very cold comfort when your the one lying their on the ground in pain. Perhaps the rider will now understand why you don't lane split with traffic already moving at a reasonable speed, and why you need to keep the speed differential between you and the traffic flow low.

Hooray! An enlightened individual!

This is the exact point.

[Virago]

Who is legally right is very cold comfort when your the one lying their on the ground in pain. Perhaps the rider will now understand why you don't lane split with traffic already moving at a reasonable speed, and why you need to keep the speed differential between you and the traffic flow low.

Bingo. Although many will still fail to grasp the logic.

The hospitals and cemeteries are full of people who were right.

Raging about right and wrong achieves little - something that many only reflect upon when it's too late.

Ride to survive.

[Scuba_Steve]

Who is legally right is very cold comfort when your the one lying their on the ground in pain. Perhaps the rider will now understand why you don't lane split with traffic already moving at a reasonable speed, and why you need to keep the speed differential between you and the traffic flow low.

maybee it is "cold comfort" don't change the fact from a NZ perspective the ute is in the wrong.
What do you call "moving at a reasonable speed"??? It turns out those trucks are stopped, that would put the traffic probably round 20km/h & the bike 30km/h at best just before impact.
How slow do you want the speed diff??? If you want to move the same speed as the traffic, stop lane splitting & join them.

[onearmedbandit]

How slow do you want the speed diff??? If you want to move the same speed as the traffic, stop lane splitting & join them.


Come on man, the answer is bleeding obvious isn't it? Slow enough so that if someone pulls out in front of you like that, you can stop. What other speed is there?

I'll give you an example of where it's perfectly legal to travel at 50km/h but horribly dangerous. Dual lane road with the two lanes of traffic heading in the same direction. At an intersection ahead for some reason all the traffic that is waiting at the red light is in the left lane. So you, quite legally, travel up the right lane at an acceptable 50km/h. Chances are, some tired impatient car driver, or just simply someone who spies an empty lane, pulls out in your path cutting you off. WTF? You were doing the legal speed limit you curse, not even lane splitting. Yet here you lie on the side of the road while the car driver inspects his front guard and receives a small slap on the wrist from the police.

Tell me, what speed was the safe speed to travel down that empty lane with all that idling traffic sitting there? Sure, the limit is 50. But that doesn't mean it was the right speed.

[_Shrek_]

(Video) Katman bait

take note of the title :corn: the only one not on the hook is Katman :laugh:

[GrayWolf]

maybee it is "cold comfort" don't change the fact from a NZ perspective the ute is in the wrong.
What do you call "moving at a reasonable speed"??? It turns out those trucks are stopped, that would put the traffic probably round 20km/h & the bike 30km/h at best just before impact.
How slow do you want the speed diff??? If you want to move the same speed as the traffic, stop lane splitting & join them.

FFS.... following that logic, in the right or not? Here lies Mr Right, he was right till the last, dead right.

what seems to be missed here is not just the differential between the moving speed... even if you say a reasonable 15-20kph faster, that dosent mean lane splitting at 90k's when others are doing 70.
I'll repeat an earlier section... once the road speed reaches 50kph, it ISNT slow moving traffic any longer, and you should be back into the traffic stream, not lane splitting.
people in posts are accusing the ute of moving into a non existant gap... just what do we think lane splitting is? it's overtaking in a non existant gap, AND a non existant lane. The onus is on US to anticipate and 'defend' against sudden traffic lane changes, and speed changes.
It's time we accepted OUR responsibility for our own safety.

[davebullet]

In the same situation, I would have gone down just like that biker. The truck to the right would have put me off doing a quick flick countersteer (think I'd rather take my chances under the wheel of the turning ute than the semi on the right).

[oldrider]

Come on man, the answer is bleeding obvious isn't it? Slow enough so that if someone pulls out in front of you like that, you can stop. What other speed is there?

I'll give you an example of where it's perfectly legal to travel at 50km/h but horribly dangerous. Dual lane road with the two lanes of traffic heading in the same direction. At an intersection ahead for some reason all the traffic that is waiting at the red light is in the left lane. So you, quite legally, travel up the right lane at an acceptable 50km/h. Chances are, some tired impatient car driver, or just simply someone who spies an empty lane, pulls out in your path cutting you off. WTF? You were doing the legal speed limit you curse, not even lane splitting. Yet here you lie on the side of the road while the car driver inspects his front guard and receives a small slap on the wrist from the police.

Tell me, what speed was the safe speed to travel down that empty lane with all that idling traffic sitting there? Sure, the limit is 50. But that doesn't mean it was the right speed.

Personal responsibility?.... Defensive driving? .... Self protection from idiots?

A bit like indignantly claiming you are in the right when you fall into the mincer at the freezing works because there was no guard rail FFS!

[Scuba_Steve]

what seems to be missed here is not just the differential between the moving speed... even if you say a reasonable 15-20kph faster, that dosent mean lane splitting at 90k's when others are doing 70.
I'll repeat an earlier section... once the road speed reaches 50kph, it ISNT slow moving traffic any longer, and you should be back into the traffic stream, not lane splitting.

And as I pointed out the traffic in that vid is sub 50km/h probably around 20km/h in the left lane while the right lane is stopped

[DMNTD]

Gap of traffic means nothing
he passed another gap of traffic beforehand.. oh look no one turned into their how strange :facepalm:

Stick to dirt bikes bro...you know jack shit about road riding.

[p.dath]

Personal responsibility?.... Defensive driving? .... Self protection from idiots?

A bit like indignantly claiming you are in the right when you fall into the mincer at the freezing works because there was no guard rail FFS!

You don't die because there was a guard rail missing; you die because you put yourself into a position where you could fall into a mincer. Wouldn't it be simpler not to put yourself in that position of danger - rather than looking to blame someone else for not keeping your life safe?

It's your life. Why wouldn't you take steps to protect it? Why would you put your life into someone else's hands if you didn't need to?

[NONONO]

The Fuckwit GOT all he deserved and was lucky not to have been killed. I'm sick of seeing fucking idiots who lane split when traffic is moving, full stop. This guy had more time than most to see and react, but Oh No he's a biker and he's coming through. Dickhead!
Katmans message is perfectly understandable it';s just that so many of you testosterone'd young pups still don't get it.
It is YOU (or worse, some poor innocent other) who dies when in the right and taking on a cage/truck or bus.

Jeez Cas, you sure you're on the right forum? Testosterone? Young? Pup?

[DMNTD]

You don't die because there was a guard rail missing; you die because you put yourself into a position where you could fall into a mincer. Wouldn't it be simpler not to put yourself in that position of danger - rather than looking to blame someone else for not keeping your life safe?

It's your life. Why wouldn't you take steps to protect it? Why would you put your life into someone else's hands if you didn't need to?

As I read it, you'd be saying that it's better to park your bike up and never ride to avoid the chance of potential harm?

Surely there would be nothing wrong working without a 'guard rail' if you took the correct precautions and took on some personal responsibility?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Fuck me you lot who are bashing the motorcycists are wankers. Yes he should have braked a tad earlier (if he did at all) but the ute driver gave no indication that he was going to change lane and when he did he swerved over FAST (he didn't make a gradual change he just fucking swerved). The ute driver was a cunt and deserved a good bashing. Just like a bunch of you cocks.

Doesn't matter whether you are alert or not, sometimes the actions of others are going to fuck you up no matter what you do, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. This was one of those occasions.

The traffic was moving slowly in the left lane and stationary in the right lane. It seems to me that these rapid and reckless lane changes by cages happen a lot more frequently in the slower moving traffic so I don't see that the traffic speed has so much to do with the accidents occuring as the damage likely to occur (due to other traffic moving faster).

Just because you are too scared to lane split in moving traffic it doesn't mean that the rest of the world has to cut their nuts off and join you wedged between the front an rear bumpers of cars over which you have no control. Who's fucking fault is it if the car in front of you brakes and the one behind doesn't and you get squished as a result? following your retarded logic it is your own fucking fault for being stupid enough to ride behind of and in front of fucking retards who have no business driving on the road (just like the fucking ute driver).

Fuck you and your shrivelled little balls. Stick to cages you pussies.

[onearmedbandit]

Well that's one opinion. Giving the driver a bash might take a while though, as it takes a few weeks for broken bones to heal lol.

[GrayWolf]

Fuck me you lot who are bashing the motorcycists are wankers. Yes he should have braked a tad earlier (if he did at all) but the ute driver gave no indication that he was going to change lane and when he did he swerved over FAST (he didn't make a gradual change he just fucking swerved). The ute driver was a cunt and deserved a good bashing. Just like a bunch of you cocks.

Doesn't matter whether you are alert or not, sometimes the actions of others are going to fuck you up no matter what you do, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. This was one of those occasions.

The traffic was moving slowly in the left lane and stationary in the right lane. It seems to me that these rapid and reckless lane changes by cages happen a lot more frequently in the slower moving traffic so I don't see that the traffic speed has so much to do with the accidents occuring as the damage likely to occur (due to other traffic moving faster).

Which is exactly why we have the onus of SELF PRESERVATION on us, to expect the wankers in cages, (to borrow your colourfull anglo saxon) to perform stupid, un-indicated and thoughtless manouvers.
Lets try an example? If you entered a field of cows with a Bull present, would you just walk aimlessly through the herd, OR would you take steps and measures to 'protect' yourself from harm by said Bull? That Bull isn't going to operate on your expectations, other than to expect it to wanna toss you in the air a few times if it gets pissed off. Treat lane splitting with the same 'concern' and you are in a better survival position.(

Just because you are too scared to lane split in moving traffic it doesn't mean that the rest of the world has to cut their nuts off and join you wedged between the front an rear bumpers of cars over which you have no control. Who's fucking fault is it if the car in front of you brakes and the one behind doesn't and you get squished as a result? following your retarded logic it is your own fucking fault for being stupid enough to ride behind of and in front of fucking retards who have no business driving on the road (just like the fucking ute driver).

Spoken like a true KB'er :facepalm:

Fuck you and your shrivelled little balls. Stick to cages you pussies.

Sorry I don't own a car... ooooops, guess I must be a pussy biker, huh? :laugh:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Which is exactly why we have the onus of SELF PRESERVATION on us, to expect the wankers in cages, (to borrow your colourfull anglo saxon) to perform stupid, un-indicated and thoughtless manouvers.
Lets try an example? If you entered a field of cows with a Bull present, would you just walk aimlessly through the herd, OR would you take steps and measures to 'protect' yourself from harm by said Bull? That Bull isn't going to operate on your expectations, other than to expect it to wanna toss you in the air a few times if it gets pissed off. Treat lane splitting with the same 'concern' and you are in a better survival position.
Sorry I don't own a car... ooooops, guess I must be a pussy biker, huh? :laugh:

Treat riding anywhere in the traffic with the same concern (not just lane splitting) and you will be better off. My point is that the rider in the video did very little wrong and still he is painted as reckless by the tards at KB when clearly the ute driver was in the wrong. As I said in my earlier post 'if you are riding between the front and rear bumpers of cars you are just as (if not more) vulnerable to acts by idiots in front of and behind you. Are all the KB cocks going to serve you up with lectures like this if you find yourself squished in such a position? I doubt it, yet it is just as relevant.

Keep a proper following distance and you'll be right I hear someone say? Try it and see how you go. You will soon find you need a reverse gear to maintain the following gap as cages keep streaming into the gap in front of you.

[Kickaha]

My point is that the rider in the video did very little wrong and still he is painted as reckless by the tards at KB when clearly the ute driver was in the wrong.

I bet he's happy as all fuck to be lying on the ground broken body and broken bike and thinking "I'm in the right"

[sinfull]

When I was doing a lot of riding in and around London after a while I developed the ability to pick out vehicles suddenly turing across ones path some way ahead. As Katman said the initial warning signals were NOT the vehicle but the space to its right and indeed the space in front of any vehicle you cant see.
Perhaps in the situation the video shows, a clue may have been the way the ute driver was weaving a little AFTER he came up to the first truck in that sandwich ! Would have told a hell story to me as i rode up at twice the pace of everybody else !

Fuckin squid without a clue i say !

[cheshirecat]

Fuckin squid without a clue i say ! Well that as well.

[sinfull]

Treat riding anywhere in the traffic with the same concern (not just lane splitting) and you will be better off. My point is that the rider in the video did very little wrong and still he is painted as reckless by the tards at KB when clearly the ute driver was in the wrong. As I said in my earlier post 'if you are riding between the front and rear bumpers of cars you are just as (if not more) vulnerable to acts by idiots in front of and behind you. Are all the KB cocks going to serve you up with lectures like this if you find yourself squished in such a position? I doubt it, yet it is just as relevant.

Keep a proper following distance and you'll be right I hear someone say? Try it and see how you go. You will soon find you need a reverse gear to maintain the following gap as cages keep streaming into the gap in front of you.
You my friend are an idiot !

[FJRider]

I bet he's happy as all fuck to be lying on the ground broken body and broken bike and thinking "I'm in the right"

A "legal" action ... is not always the "right" action ...

Confidence in what you are doing, gets you in deep shit ... sometimes ... :lol:

[Woodman]

Car driver and bike drivers will always do stupid things, make an error of judgement etc atfer all they are human, but in a car vs motorcyle accident the motorcyclist always comes off worse no matter who was at fault. Seems some just don't get that.

[_Shrek_]

Treat riding anywhere in the traffic with the same concern (not just lane splitting) and you will be better off.

:yes: on that ^^^


My point is that the rider in the video did very little wrong and still he is painted as reckless by the tards at KB when clearly the ute driver was in the wrong. As I said in my earlier post 'if you are riding between the front and rear bumpers of cars you are just as (if not more) vulnerable to acts by idiots in front of and behind you. Are all the KB cocks going to serve you up with lectures like this if you find yourself squished in such a position? I doubt it, yet it is just as relevant.

Keep a proper following distance and you'll be right I hear someone say? Try it and see how you go. You will soon find you need a reverse gear to maintain the following gap as cages keep streaming into the gap in front of you


"BUT THIS" :bs: ^^^^ sinful got it right


You my friend are an idiot !

[flyingcrocodile46]

:yes: on that ^^^




"BUT THIS" :bs: ^^^^ sinful got it right

So you think KBers would serve up lectures (for fucking up) to riders who got squished between front and rear bumpers of cars, and that it is possible to maintain prescribed following distances (1 car length for every 10 kph) without cars constantly cutting in front of you and reducing that following distance?

I think you two have got a large dose of the PKB's.

[onearmedbandit]

So you think KBers would serve up lectures (for fucking up) to riders who got squished between front and rear bumpers of cars, and that it is possible to maintain prescribed following distances (1 car length for every 10 kph) without cars constantly cutting in front of you and reducing that following distance?

I think you two have got a large dose of the PKB's.

Nothing will change what happened to that rider. What can change is other peoples awareness if it is pointed out that something like this can be avoided by being more aware of your surroundings. It may also benefit the involved rider the next time they are. No harm can come of this, other than some peoples feelings being hurt.

On your second point, I don't know the roads you ride on but I find no problem maintaining a safe distance without cars cutting in on me 'constantly'. Sure it happens but it also happens when I'm in my car. Doesn't mean I'm going to increase my chances of being in an accident by following at an unsafe distance just so cars can't cut in. That's just stupid logic. Honestly.

[Kendog]

but the ute driver gave no indication that he was going to change lane
What about his right hand indicator, flashing at least twice in the video?
Is that not enough for you?

[pritch]

Car driver and bike drivers will always do stupid things, make an error of judgement etc atfer all they are human, but in a car vs motorcyle accident the motorcyclist always comes off worse no matter who was at fault. Seems some just don't get that.

I shouldn't think so. It's so blindingly obvious that it should go without mention. In a car vs bike accident it will almost always be the biker who is lying on the deck. Except sometimes in the US of A where some dude hauls out his piece and starts shooting... :ar15:

[_Shrek_]

Nothing will change what happened to that rider. What can change is other peoples awareness if it is pointed out that something like this can be avoided by being more aware of your surroundings. It may also benefit the involved rider the next time they are. No harm can come of this, other than some peoples feelings being hurt.

On your second point, I don't know the roads you ride on but I find no problem maintaining a safe distance without cars cutting in on me 'constantly'. Sure it happens but it also happens when I'm in my car. Doesn't mean I'm going to increase my chances of being in an accident by following at an unsafe distance just so cars can't cut in. That's just stupid logic. Honestly.

cheers :apint: for that, saves me having todo all the writing

[GrayWolf]

Treat riding anywhere in the traffic with the same concern (not just lane splitting) and you will be better off. My point is that the rider in the video did very little wrong and still he is painted as reckless by the tards at KB when clearly the ute driver was in the wrong. As I said in my earlier post 'if you are riding between the front and rear bumpers of cars you are just as (if not more) vulnerable to acts by idiots in front of and behind you. Are all the KB cocks going to serve you up with lectures like this if you find yourself squished in such a position? I doubt it, yet it is just as relevant.

Keep a proper following distance and you'll be right I hear someone say? Try it and see how you go. You will soon find you need a reverse gear to maintain the following gap as cages keep streaming into the gap in front of you.

Why is it we are discussing lane splitting but you now have to include riding in any condition to vent about the so called KB cocks giving a lecture? mate I would consider myself one of those aforementioned 'cocks'. Sometimes, just sometimes, said cocks have a wealth of experience or incidents to base their 'lectures' on. As Scummy has pointed out and I attempted to, you can be as right as right can be,, and you can stick to being 'in the right'... you are on the most vulnerable piece of motorised equipment on the road, you'll be DEAD RIGHT!!
Sometimes 'cowardice' IS the best defence, but then what do old fuckers like me know? jack shit I guess, we are too old to know it all.

[ckai]

Done a defensive driving course myself, and whilst we were taught to scan 12 seconds ahead we were never told to concentrate our field of vision there. Quite the contrary in fact, we were taught skills to develop all areas of vision. Just pointing it out.

Totally agree. Scanning and not looking at the wheel still wouldn't help. Because it was such a short amount of time and at the speed the bike was travelling, I would be my believe, that by the time the rider engaged his brain (for he is mere mortal and not a jet fighter) and reacted he still would have gone splat.

As you know, scanning is a very short look. By the time you're looking at something else, your brain is processing what it looked at previously. I don't even think an Indian (who are well known for their crazy wide field of vision) would have spotted the wheel in time and stopped.

Meh, it's all trivial really. The rider was a toser, the driver was a toser. No one gives a shit about anyone else anymore and everyone drives like fuck-tards, even the good ones.:devil2:

[riffer]

Sometimes 'cowardice' IS the best defence, but then what do old fuckers like me know? jack shit I guess, we are too old to know it all.

Old bikers, bold bikers...

Meh. You know, its tough sometimes when you really believe in education rather than legislation. Some people just don't want to listen and in the end TPTB just end up further eroding our rights because some of us just won't learn.

[Maha]

TAG: Expert Opinion At Large.

[Ocean1]

Old bikers, bold bikers...

Meh. You know, its tough sometimes when you really believe in education rather than legislation. Some people just don't want to listen and in the end TPTB just end up further eroding our rights because some of us just won't learn.

So, you believe that's the only two options?

[riffer]

So, you believe that's the only two options?

No I don't. Not at all. However, I wasn't talking about myself; merely musing about the mental machinations of those in charge.

[Ocean1]

No I don't. Not at all. However, I wasn't talking about myself; merely musing about the mental machinations of those in charge.

Not just them. Blaming other people for not behaving the way one wants has become a national passtime of epidemic proportions. It won't end well for anyone.

[GrayWolf]

So, you believe that's the only two options?

No the third option? let 'Darwinism' take it's course.....

Seriously though Ocean,
if some wont be 'educated' and some will not accept a level of personal responsibility for their choices and how they affect others on the road; (really that is the crux of any argument over road rules) then TPTB are going to step in with a heavy handed approach.
There are so many on the road bike/car/truck who really believe they are 'superior drivers' and wont get 'caught out' often they are 'right', they leave the trail of carnage behind them. We can all be honest that anyone with a bike enjoys a twisty road ridden quickly and often will 'errrrrr' bend the speed limit. The other side of the coin is when you see a bike overtaking at 150+ k's. Yes I know modern brakes, bike performance etc do mechanically allow for this level of manouvere. Reality is it's way too fast for the roads you are on, they aren't constructed for that level of speed. Most 'behaviour' is ego driven rather than skill or ability based and we have ALL done it. Yes a sprot bike can accelerate to 100k's in sub 3 seconds, and reach 160 in under 10 easily. My ZZR will do that, and will crucify my MT-01 in that area of performance, however.. top gear 'roll on' from 80-100k's to overtake? bye bye Zed, the MT is quicker in the 'usable' speed range without dropping 1 or 2 cogs. 90% plus of riders CANNOT get the 'best performance' out of a 1000cc sprot bike on the road, they scream down the straights, slam on brakes, slow right down, then scream onto the next bend...... I watch on the Taka's as a sprot bike rider overtakes on the double solid lines approaching the often blind next bend, yes the bike can do it, but?????

[onearmedbandit]

I'm the opposite. I ride a 1000cc sportsbike. I ride slower on the straights than I do through the corners. No need for anything more than 120-130 on the straights, but as the corner comes up so does my speed (within reason, I am after all not on a race track). I'd much rather wear a ticket getting caught mid-corner than on a straight.

Bear in mind that I'm not some reckless hoon, I choose my time and place very carefully now. And I leave a decent margin for error. Yup, one day I may get caught out, but I'll always take responsibility for that. Even if I'm not around afterwards to say it.

[Ocean1]

No the third option? let 'Darwinism' take it's course.....

Seriously though Ocean,
if some wont be 'educated' and some will not accept a level of personal responsibility for their choices and how they affect others on the road; (really that is the crux of any argument over road rules) then TPTB are going to step in with a heavy handed approach.
There are so many on the road bike/car/truck who really believe they are 'superior drivers' and wont get 'caught out' often they are 'right', they leave the trail of carnage behind them.

I was serious.

What sort of arrogance leads one to assume that someone who chooses to behave differently to themselves needs “educating”? Isn’t it rather more likely that you’re ideas about how they should behave are deficient? They’re the ultimate authority on the topic, after all.

As for the responsibility issue, firstly; society has removed the mechanisms whereby people learned what consequences were possible / likely as a result of different types of behaviour. So you shouldn’t come over all shocked and mortified if they behave like nothing is ever going to seriously interrupt their somewhat protected lives. Secondly; what possible difference does having anyone “accept” whatever responsibility they may or may not have with regard to any particular incident? The outcome is completely unaffected by whatever they consider the causal structures behind it. And forget about compliance to the rules as some infallible guide to what’s safe, and it’s utter nonsense to suggest that adherence to some arbitrary speed limit will automatically absolve anyone of the responsibility of their actions.

What I suggest is in fact the reality, completely unrecognised officially (and usually otherwise), is that people behave in such a manner that THEY believe represents a level of risk to both themselves and others that’s acceptable to THEM. This is nature’s default setting, and I can’t see anything in society’s attempts to the contrary that makes me believe there’s a better way. Or in fact any other viable way at all. In fact the imposition of anything else is, I believe an unacceptable abrogation of what I see as something any human should see as an inviolable right.

If you believe otherwise then I can only point out that there’s rather a lot of us, and we’re never going to get consensus on what level of risk is acceptable. I find I don’t feel threatened by the chance of dying on our roads, not when that risk arrives at parity in about 120,000,000 kilometres. Maybe you do. I’d suggest that to lower that risk much further you’d find yourself sacrificing rather more than you think in exchange.