Hmm. I've had a change of attitude on this hi-viz thing

[Oakie]

I've been a little sceptical over how much difference a hi-viz vest would make. I've thought if people can't see a 55w headlight coming at them let alone something the dimensions of a motorbike on the road, how much difference would a hi-viz vest make? Especially if it is obscured behind a fairing screen. I don't disregard hi-viz completely though and my next jacket will have some.

ANYWAY ... toodling home today after a brain-draining day, I leaned into a gentle tree lined curve minding my own business when my eyes were suddenly assaulted by two patches of yellow (rider and pillion in slip over elastic hi-viz vest things) coming the other way. What blew me away though was that the two patches of yellow registered consciously in my brain before the bike did ... and it was a freakin' Gold Wing! Perhaps the random thought 'bike coming the other way' did slip in and was dismissed as 'situation normal' before the hi-viz registered a half second later but the hi-viz certainly grabbed my attention like being slapped by a flounder.

Summary: if hi-viz grabs the attention of a biker who looks for bikes on the road, I guess perhaps it just may grab the attention of a car driver who doesn't look for bikes. This would be a good thing.

Still not keen on a vest thing (fiddly) but this is what I've been planning to buy when I have assembled the necessary financial wherewithall. http://www.revzilla.com/product/revit-dragon-jacket

[DR650gary]

"Mate, I think you're dreaming"

:yawn:

http://www.fc-moto.de/epages/fcm.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/10207048/Products/Revit-Energy-HV-Jacket/SubProducts/Revit-Energy-HV-Jacket-0001

SMIDC is what it is and you care because you are riding aware.

Think of the people that pull out in front of trains and buses. You think they need flouro?

I have no problem with wearing flouro, but I personally think it is worthless. People have run up the arse of cop cars and cop bikes. You can't get more flouro than that.

I just think a great majority of people in charge of motorised vehicles have poor skills.

Cheers

[Usarka]

Still not keen on a vest thing (fiddly) but this is what I've been planning to buy when I have assembled the necessary financial wherewithall. http://www.revzilla.com/product/revit-dragon-jacket

You'll probably still need to put a vest over top of this if the cheese dicks make it law.

[Swoop]

... when my eyes were suddenly assaulted by two patches of yellow (rider and pillion in slip over elastic hi-viz vest things) coming the other way. ...and it was a freakin' Gold Wing!
I know the feeling. I would much prefer to look at a piece of bright fabric, rather than a lead wing, as well.:shifty:

[Scuba_Steve]

& remember theres always the flip-side - target fixation
that ability to hit the only thing you were trying to avoid & the only thing round for miles

I'll stick without the "hit me I'm here vests" regardless of if they ever become law

[scumdog]

Unlikely that anybody will find out that hi-vis saved them, it's not like the person that became aware of the biker because of the hi-vis is going to follow them home to tell them that.

But it only has to do so once and it's paid for itself.

[davebullet]

Were they loose / flapping about high viz vests?

I'd wager loose flappy clothing (rapid random movement) is what the eye detects, moreso than the colour.

Therefore, although not as stylish, some flappy might be more visible than a "Designed in" high viz panel(s) on a jacket. Plus they get grubby and it's easier to clean the vest than soak / clean the whole jacket (to keep it purposeful).

[whowhatwhere]

Keep your current gear..

http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/reveathos.aspx

[DangerMice]

don't think its a particularly great jacket, but the mil-spec yellow is likely to sear the eyeballs of all those who gaze upon it lol

http://rideicon.com/showImage.jsp?class_id=12266&image_type=fullsize&rank=115

http://rideicon.com/product_details.jsp?category=3433&id=12266

[Oakie]

You'll probably still need to put a vest over top of this if the cheese dicks make it law.

That is partly what I'm tryng to avoid by getting a jacket with the hi-viz treatment. Wearing a yellow flappy bib would just annoy the pus out of me.


Were they loose / flapping about high viz vests?. Nah. Quite form fitting ... and bright


don't think its a particularly great jacket, but the mil-spec yellow is likely to sear the eyeballs of all those who gaze upon it lol

Arghhhhh, my eyes ... my poor eyes.

[Bassmatt]

this is what I've been planning to buy when I have assembled the necessary financial wherewithall. http://www.revzilla.com/product/revit-dragon-jacket

I have one of these as my winter jacket and it is warm and waterproof and very comfortable but.... after wearing it for 4-5 months the yellow hi vis part (which is much brighter than the photo shows) has faded badly and I expect after another season it will have faded to the point of being useless. :no:

[rastuscat]

Remember that it's contrast that makes things stick out.

If the rider was dressed top to toe in lemon, a black helmet would stand out like dogs nuts.

Popos ride in yellow, and there's one with a yellow helmet. He's less visible than his Popo mates with white helmets. It's contrast that counts, it attracts the eye.

Also, ride around looking like Sandra Bullock and I'll see you from 200 metres, every time.

[GingerMidget]

I won't go down the hi-vis road myelf, because I have a black and white jacket, which is enough to me.

[mashman]

Something to consider (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17511-the-blind-spot-and-the-vanishing-head-illusion.html) :innocent:

[Kemet]

For me, you could have a bloody neons flashing (if it were legal) all over the bike and you would still get hit, it's all in the circumstances and if you have the bad luck to be there...


even scarier with the give way rules reverting.


I totally back BRONZs mission statement / slogan
"education, not legislation, saves lives"

[Hitcher]

Arghhhhh, my eyes ... my poor eyes.

I'm more worried about your poor brain.

[Madness]

I wonder how much it cost to have 3 sworn Police Officers and a middle-aged woman from ACC who looked like Barbara Woodhouse at a checkpoint in Albany yesterday (sunday) pushing free vests and "safety checks" onto unsuspecting bikers.

[Oakie]

I have one of these as my winter jacket and it is warm and waterproof and very comfortable but.... after wearing it for 4-5 months the yellow hi vis part (which is much brighter than the photo shows) has faded badly and I expect after another season it will have faded to the point of being useless. :no:

Interesting. Thank you.

[Renegade]

there was talk about painting the fire engines yellow like some parts of the USA and UK, as is the norm for ambos and cop cars now.

If you cant see and hear a f**kn fire engine coming even painted shiney red you should hand in youre licence now imo :facepalm:

[jaffaonajappa]

I've been a little sceptical over how much difference a


Dude. What if your parents find out? What if ya misses finds out?!

Tassles and high-viz. nty.

[Gremlin]

I did give thought to getting one of the two Revit Jackets that have high viz incorporated into the jacket, asked some mates for opinions. After the initial laughing and shit slinging was done, it was pointed out that you'd have to clean it regularly for it to have any effect (like more than once a year). Since my jacket is washed perhaps every few years, it was best just to get another black one.

Mate threw in a one of those Look for motorbikes viz vests when I bought it (ok, he practically forced me into it), and while it flaps a bit (I think Oxford makes a stretchy one) I use it now and then for various reasons. I think people mistake me for a cop, so it's had a seriously good upside... which I didn't think it would have :laugh:

[Conquiztador]

The scariest re this is that clearly the propaganda is starting to work.:(

[Usarka]

That is partly what I'm tryng to avoid by getting a jacket with the hi-viz treatment. Wearing a yellow flappy bib would just annoy the pus out of me.


If they were to become mandatory they'd need to define what hi-vis means, and have ways of proving it if it goes to court. The most likely scenario (because it's easy and cheap and they are stupid and lazy) will be workplace hi-vis vests that carry a NZ Standards cert.

Unless europe introduce a standard for reflctive bike clothing in the interim.

[240]

Interesting topic.
Last week I was siting in my car having the good old mrs macs steak and pepper pie, when something caught my eye in my peripheral vision (i mean really jumped out at me) it was a couple on a bike wearing high viz yellow helmets and man they stood out.
Can't be a bad thing surely?

[Conquiztador]

Interesting topic.
Last week I was siting in my car having the good old mrs macs steak and pepper pie, .........
.......Can't be a bad thing surely?

There :msn-wink:

[Tigadee]

...when my eyes were suddenly assaulted by two patches of yellow...

Yeah, happened to me (http://www.sugarvilla.com/images/large/danielle-lloyd-in-a-yellow-bikini-launches-ski-republic-in-london.jpg) the other day too...

[Tigadee]

there was talk about painting the fire engines yellow like some parts of the USA and UK, as is the norm for ambos and cop cars now. If you cant see and hear a f**kn fire engine coming even painted shiney red you should hand in youre licence now imo :facepalm:

What about thsoe neon green Kawas?:confused:

[Swoop]

ride around looking like Sandra Bullock and I'll see you from 200 metres, every time.
Huh?

You want us to ride around wearing makeup, high heels and a short skirt?

You don't ride a Honda, by any chance?:confused:

[Trade_nancy]

I think most - if not all of us - who are opposed to wearing hi-viz vests - are driven by the .."the bastards won't make me do something I don't wanna do" mindset; or the "I'm a demon biker who looks cool(er) in black, leather, buckles and tassles". I remember all too well when helmets were made mandatory - the rolling eyeballs and hissing and spitting from bikers....now, how many of us would argue that m/cycle helmets are not beneficial to safety?
Or seatbelts in cars - same shit - was made compulsory back in the '70's and I guess it was spilt 50/50..people for it and people agin it. Now,..we just strap up and can't believe some of us argued against them.
I have a fluro vest. Bought it in Taupo 2 years ago for $6 - sometimes wear it - and believe it helps - but is not a cure for inattentive motorists. I will wear it when I go on a longer ride...in particular winter - it keeps me a bit warmer....and maybe safer. I don't believe for a minute it is LESS safe,.....and suspect it is likely to be slightly MORE safe. So,...why all the angst?:confused:

[MSTRS]

I think most - if not all of us - who are opposed to wearing hi-viz vests - are driven by the .."the bastards won't make me do something I don't wanna do" mindset; or the "I'm a demon biker who looks cool(er) in black, leather, buckles and tassles". I remember all too well when helmets were made mandatory - the rolling eyeballs and hissing and spitting from bikers....now, how many of us would argue that m/cycle helmets are not beneficial to safety?
Or seatbelts in cars - same shit - was made compulsory back in the '70's and I guess it was spilt 50/50..people for it and people agin it. Now,..we just strap up and can't believe some of us argued against them.
I have a fluro vest. Bought it in Taupo 2 years ago for $6 - sometimes wear it - and believe it helps - but is not a cure for inattentive motorists. I will wear it when I go on a longer ride...in particular winter - it keeps me a bit warmer....and maybe safer. I don't believe for a minute it is LESS safe,.....and suspect it is likely to be slightly MORE safe. So,...why all the angst?:confused:

Helmets and seatbelts are a strawman argument. They have everything to do with personal injury mitigation and NOTHING to do with whether someone else sees you.
Hi-vis is all about being an un-natural spot of colour amongst a sea of colours, which *should*mean it stands out. It may or may not. The jury will always be out on that. For those that wish to wear it, all power to you - I choose not to - but be aware that fluro colours are very susceptible to UV fade, so if you do a lot of riding, better to use a cheap throw away vest rather than sewn-in panels on your expensive jacket.

[george formby]

I have one of these as my winter jacket and it is warm and waterproof and very comfortable but.... after wearing it for 4-5 months the yellow hi vis part (which is much brighter than the photo shows) has faded badly and I expect after another season it will have faded to the point of being useless. :no:

Same thing happened to my top of the line fiercely lumo waterproofs I bought for commercial fishing. After 6 months it was a pastel yellow, useless for visibilty but still kept me dry.
This is something I would consider if buying a vest/jacket/strap on etc. How long will it be hi viz?

[MSTRS]

Same thing happened to my top of the line fiercely lumo waterproofs I bought for commercial fishing. After 6 months it was a pastel yellow, useless for visibilty but still kept me dry.
This is something I would consider if buying a vest/jacket/strap on etc. How long will it be hi viz?

Is there something you're not telling us?:laugh:

[cold comfort]

The scariest re this is that clearly the propaganda is starting to work.:(

Yep, a bit more of this "debate" and in no time there will be a queue just begging the govt to make it law.

[george formby]

Is there something you're not telling us?:laugh:

I thought fluoro strap on's where quite popular<_<

You know the ones, over the shoulder, across the chest & around the waist. the Feds used to use them over their leathers.

[chasio]

Something to consider (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17511-the-blind-spot-and-the-vanishing-head-illusion.html) :innocent:

Great link, thanks. I clicked through to 'map your blind spot' and it was a bit worrying, to be frank. (NB The instructions are poor - they forget to tell you to do it at the right distance and with your left eye closed/covered, but this is explained in the related links).

What it really reinforced to me was the need to keep my eyes moving around the scene, not just looking along the road. Just like all road users do all the time, eh? :whistle:

[Trade_nancy]

Helmets and seatbelts are a strawman argument. They have everything to do with personal injury mitigation and NOTHING to do with whether someone else sees you.
Hi-vis is all about being an un-natural spot of colour amongst a sea of colours, which *should*mean it stands out. It may or may not. The jury will always be out on that. For those that wish to wear it, all power to you - I choose not to - but be aware that fluro colours are very susceptible to UV fade, so if you do a lot of riding, better to use a cheap throw away vest rather than sewn-in panels on your expensive jacket.
Yes, some do fade VERY quickly too. The vest I picked up for $6 bucks is now toast...fluro effect is getting poor..and the velcro is stuffed...But I have a fluro "bib" type that I bought in 1984 for use while running at night with a club pack run...it is still reflective and highly visible. Unfortunately I can no longer get the the two end of the velcro straps to meet..due to increased girth.
I usually don't wear my fluro either...but that's just can't be bothered on the bike. At night by the way, the reflective component of the fluro vest comes into it's own - making the rider much more visible with flicks of light.

[MSTRS]

Yes, some do fade VERY quickly too. The vest I picked up for $6 bucks is now toast...fluro effect is getting poor..and the velcro is stuffed...But I have a fluro "bib" type that I bought in 1984 for use while running at night with a club pack run...it is still reflective and highly visible. Unfortunately I can no longer get the the two end of the velcro straps to meet..due to increased girth.
I usually don't wear my fluro either...but that's just can't be bothered on the bike. At night by the way, the reflective component of the fluro vest comes into it's own - making the rider much more visible with flicks of light.

Eat less and run faster? :devil2:
And not a lot of UV about at night...

[HenryDorsetCase]

don't think its a particularly great jacket, but the mil-spec yellow is likely to sear the eyeballs of all those who gaze upon it lol



http://rideicon.com/product_details.jsp?category=3433&id=12266

fuck yeah! awesome!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Same thing happened to my top of the line fiercely lumo waterproofs I bought for commercial fishing. After 6 months it was a pastel yellow, useless for visibilty but still kept me dry.
This is something I would consider if buying a vest/jacket/strap on etc. How long will it be hi viz?

"high viz strap on"


heh heh heh teehee

[GrayWolf]

"high viz strap on"


heh heh heh teehee

Now don't get all excited Henry, lmfao...


you beat me to it btw! :devil2:

[willytheekid]

Interesting topic.
Last week I was siting in my car having the good old mrs macs steak and pepper pie, when something caught my eye in my peripheral vision (i mean really jumped out at me) it was a couple on a bike wearing high viz yellow helmets and man they stood out.
Can't be a bad thing surely?

Maybe if you & others focused more on driving instead of treating your car like a dinner table!, you would notice alot more things on the road and around you.
...do you see professional drivers/racers stuffing there face whilst in control of a vehicle?

OF COURSE NOT!, because its a lack of control and concentration...not to mention bloody stupid & dangerous to other road users!, yet we have thousands of vehicles going around with drivers stuffing there face's, applying make up, sorting music, calling there friends and generally not focusing on the road!

THIS is one of the REAL problems!, people using there mode of transport while distracted and unfocused!
....Maybe some REAL driver training when you apply for your licences would be great first step, But maybe the police/Govnt etc could actually start cracking down on motorists using their vehicals as dinner tables & mobile meeting rooms!...you know a shift to more of a "safety" type of focus...instead of a mostly "revenue" based/lick ACC's arse/have you payed your taxes?...type of focus.

...INSTEAD of making people wear bright clothing to attract the attention of distracted, Incompetant & unfocused drivers.




OHH Shit!...did we hit a motorcycle while typing this?....ehh, serves em right for not wearing Hi viz!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/71/200450881_7937307256.jpg
...now change the cd, open a coke, call sally and pass me some chips!..gots me some DRIVIN to do!!

ps: Will peddle bikes also be targeted?...cos Im with shane warne! (bout time these pricks payed for the privilege of road use like the rest of us!)

[HenryDorsetCase]

ps: Will peddle bikes also be targeted?...cos Im with shane warne! (bout time these pricks payed for the privilege of road use like the rest of us!)

I'm a mountainbiker so care not a whit.

[george formby]

I used to ride with a hi-viz helmet in the UK, fluoro orange, & yup, sticks out like the mutts nuts. You can see them over hedges, walls, over vehicles in traffic etc. Wish i still had it, my current helmet is quite dark.

[Trade_nancy]

Maybe if you & others focused more on driving instead of treating your car like a dinner table!, you would notice alot more things on the road and around you.
...do you see professional drivers/racers stuffing there face whilst in control of a vehicle?

OF COURSE NOT!, because its a lack of control and concentration...not to mention bloody stupid & dangerous to other road users!, yet we have thousands of vehicles going around with drivers stuffing there face's, applying make up, sorting music, calling there friends and generally not focusing on the road!

THIS is one of the REAL problems!, people using there mode of transport while distracted and unfocused!
....Maybe some REAL driver training when you apply for your licences would be great first step, But maybe the police/Govnt etc could actually start cracking down on motorists using their vehicals as dinner tables & mobile meeting rooms!...you know a shift to more of a "safety" type of focus...instead of a mostly "revenue" based/lick ACC's arse/have you payed your taxes?...type of focus.

...INSTEAD of making people wear bright clothing to attract the attention of distracted, Incompetant & unfocused drivers.




OHH Shit!...did we hit a motorcycle while typing this?....ehh, serves em right for not wearing Hi viz!

...now change the cd, open a coke, call sally and pass me some chips!..gots me some DRIVIN to do!!

ps: Will peddle bikes also be targeted?...cos Im with shane warne! (bout time these pricks payed for the privilege of road use like the rest of us!)
(S)he didn't mention they were DRIVING - maybe they were parked up and feeding. Every cop in the world does that...

[240]

Maybe if you & others focused more on driving instead of treating your car like a dinner table!, you would notice alot more things on the road and around you.
...do you see professional drivers/racers stuffing there face whilst in control of a vehicle?

OF COURSE NOT!, because its a lack of control and concentration...not to mention bloody stupid & dangerous to other road users!, yet we have thousands of vehicles going around with drivers stuffing there face's, applying make up, sorting music, calling there friends and generally not focusing on the road!

THIS is one of the REAL problems!, people using there mode of transport while distracted and unfocused!
....Maybe some REAL driver training when you apply for your licences would be great first step, But maybe the police/Govnt etc could actually start cracking down on motorists using their vehicals as dinner tables & mobile meeting rooms!...you know a shift to more of a "safety" type of focus...instead of a mostly "revenue" based/lick ACC's arse/have you payed your taxes?...type of focus.

...INSTEAD of making people wear bright clothing to attract the attention of distracted, Incompetant & unfocused drivers.




OHH Shit!...did we hit a motorcycle while typing this?....ehh, serves em right for not wearing Hi viz!

...now change the cd, open a coke, call sally and pass me some chips!..gots me some DRIVIN to do!!

ps: Will peddle bikes also be targeted?...cos Im with shane warne! (bout time these pricks payed for the privilege of road use like the rest of us!)

Before you flood your panty liner mate I was not driving I was sitting on the side of the road.Thats why I said sitting in my car not driving.Maybe you have highlighted another problem. Its called SMIDCWIWRS (sorry mate i didn't comprehend what i was reading syndrome).

[willytheekid]

(S)he didn't mention they were DRIVING - maybe they were parked up and feeding. Every cop in the world does that...


Before you flood your panty liner mate I was not driving I was sitting on the side of the road.Thats why I said sitting in my car not driving.Maybe you have highlighted another problem. Its called SMIDCWIWRS (sorry mate i didn't comprehend what i was reading syndrome).

:facepalm:...sweet jesus!

Not Directed at OP!...directed at the many drivers that DO use their cars etc as Dinner tables and put the rest of us at....ohh...you know what!


http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-troll-genius-or-really-dumb.jpg
(240...I wasnt having a dig at YOU :laugh:...I was just using you as an example of miss directed focus & attention loss, due to other activities inside a car (parked or otherwise!)...k :niceone:)

...or does the problem I have clearly (apparently NOT) high-lighted not exist at all??

SMIDCWIWRS indeed! <_<
...and I don't use panty liners...more of a "stuck up" tampon type of guy :lol:


...please understand I mean't no disrespect etc, and I hope you don't think this is the case...Ride safe:niceone:

[pritch]

it only has to do so once and it's paid for itself.

But you didn't have to pay for yours. :whistle:

[HenryDorsetCase]

M



awwwwww, kitty!

[Supertwin Don]

I've been a little sceptical over how much difference a hi-viz vest would make. I've thought if people can't see a 55w headlight coming at them let alone something the dimensions of a motorbike on the road, how much difference would a hi-viz vest make? Especially if it is obscured behind a fairing screen. I don't disregard hi-viz completely though and my next jacket will have some.

ANYWAY ... toodling home today after a brain-draining day, I leaned into a gentle tree lined curve minding my own business when my eyes were suddenly assaulted by two patches of yellow (rider and pillion in slip over elastic hi-viz vest things) coming the other way. What blew me away though was that the two patches of yellow registered consciously in my brain before the bike did ... and it was a freakin' Gold Wing! Perhaps the random thought 'bike coming the other way' did slip in and was dismissed as 'situation normal' before the hi-viz registered a half second later but the hi-viz certainly grabbed my attention like being slapped by a flounder.

Summary: if hi-viz grabs the attention of a biker who looks for bikes on the road, I guess perhaps it just may grab the attention of a car driver who doesn't look for bikes. This would be a good thing.

Still not keen on a vest thing (fiddly) but this is what I've been planning to buy when I have assembled the necessary financial wherewithall. http://www.revzilla.com/product/revit-dragon-jacket

a little (slightly alcohol induced) thought - when a biker sees the hi-viz stuff before he sees the bike, what was he looking for? a push bike rider, a horse rider, a road worker, etc. - we seem to be getting conditioned (coerced) to look for things OTHER than the actual object - leading to a decrease in the ability to judge just how far away said object is ( and how fast is it traveling) - is that headlight a very bright light far away, or a dim light close up ? and a lack of respect for the road workers! :confused:

[MSTRS]

a little (slightly alcohol induced) thought - when a biker sees the hi-viz stuff before he sees the bike, what was he looking for? a push bike rider, a horse rider, a road worker, etc. - we seem to be getting conditioned (coerced) to look for things OTHER than the actual object - leading to a decrease in the ability to judge just how far away said object is ( and how fast is it traveling) - is that headlight a very bright light far away, or a dim light close up ? and a lack of respect for the road workers! :confused:

Persackerly...

[Conquiztador]

a little (slightly alcohol induced) thought - when a biker sees the hi-viz stuff before he sees the bike, what was he looking for? a push bike rider, a horse rider, a road worker, etc. - we seem to be getting conditioned (coerced) to look for things OTHER than the actual object - leading to a decrease in the ability to judge just how far away said object is ( and how fast is it traveling) - is that headlight a very bright light far away, or a dim light close up ? and a lack of respect for the road workers! :confused:

As I was reading the replies on this thread it struck me, we have overlooked the obvious solution!!! In the end of the 1800's they had this all sorted. What we need to campaign for is a man that walks in fron of the bike with a flag in his had to make everyone aware that there is a motorbike approaching. And clearly we should include the high-viz products here: A high-viz flag and vest for the man!!! I sooo deserve a medal for this!

Hmmm... wonder why they ever stopped that practice? Would have saved so many 100,000 lives!

[240]

:facepalm:...sweet jesus!

Not Directed at OP!...directed at the many drivers that DO use their cars etc as Dinner tables and put the rest of us at....ohh...you know what!



(240...I wasnt having a dig at YOU :laugh:...I was just using you as an example of miss directed focus & attention loss, due to other activities inside a car (parked or otherwise!)...k :niceone:)

...or does the problem I have clearly (apparently NOT) high-lighted not exist at all??

SMIDCWIWRS indeed! <_<
...and I don't use panty liners...more of a "stuck up" tampon type of guy :lol:


...please understand I mean't no disrespect etc, and I hope you don't think this is the case...Ride safe:niceone:

All good mate :niceone:

[FJRider]

I dont know why everybody doesn't wear Hi-vis gear ...Police wear it all (ok ...a lot of) the time ... I have never heard (much) about Cop's getting run into ... It MUST work then ... <_<

[blue rider]

creative from the FFMC (French Federation of Pissed of Bikers, Federation Francaise des Motards en Colere)

i think it's rather cute, non?

[Oakie]

a little (slightly alcohol induced) thought - when a biker sees the hi-viz stuff before he sees the bike, what was he looking for? :

That's the point. I wasn't looking for anything ... just wending my way home gently and not concentrating fully (probably). The hi-viz announced itself without being looked for.

[Oakie]

The scariest re this is that clearly the propaganda is starting to work.:(

Nah, wasn't the propaganda that seared my eyeballs ... it was those two yellow blobs.

[blue rider]

Nah, wasn't the propaganda that seared my eyeballs ... it was those two yellow blobs.

would you assume the same effect to take place once everyone is yellow / orange / green or pink ( heavens forbid ) clad?

[Oakie]

would you assume the same effect to take place once everyone is yellow / orange / green or pink ( heavens forbid ) clad?

Wouldn't assume it but perhaps after a while (he dreamed) car drivers might see yellow blob and think "another damned biker". Who knows? I'd still never take it for granted that I'd been seen. That's one of the problems I've always had with hi-viz. Newbies wearing it may assume that they must have been seen.

[blue rider]

Wouldn't assume it but perhaps after a while (he dreamed) car drivers might see yellow blob and think "another damned biker". Who knows? I'd still never take it for granted that I'd been seen. That's one of the problems I've always had with hi-viz. Newbies wearing it may assume that they must have been seen.

I don't see how any driver will actually pay attention to it. Living in Auckland, i can guarantee you that the current visual pollution we are living with is just going to eat that extra speck of colour up like nothing.
I do believe that the only thing being promoted here is a fake sense of safety.

heck the only thing the driver of a car might see would be a naked chick riding ....and even then i would not guarantee it.:laugh:

[Oakie]

heck the only thing the driver of a car might see would be a naked chick riding ....and even then i would not guarantee it.:laugh:

Hmm. You should refer to my profile pic...

[Conquiztador]

.

heck the only thing the driver of a car might see would be a naked chick riding ....and even then i would not guarantee it.:laugh:

I think some serious research in to the accuracy of this statement is needed. I would be prepared to give a helping hand...

[blue rider]

I think some serious research in to the accuracy of this statement is needed. I would be prepared to give a helping hand...



you offer yourself up for the test? I am sure many of the Lady drivers will appreciate! :devil2:

[Coolz]

Those who choose to wear the fluro vests should all stick to the same colour so they can be easily be identified as bikers. As roadworkers etc wear either green or orange that would leave only yellow as I can't see pink being too popular. Be great if they made a blue fluro.

[Woodman]

As long as they don't flap around then i don't see how a hiviz could affect your riding. Its not a fashion show.

[Hitcher]

Those who choose to wear the fluro vests should all stick to the same colour so they can be easily be identified as bikers.

I would have thought that the presence of a motorcycle could be a bit of a giveaway. Failing that, hi-vizzers could get "Biker" tattooed on their foreheads.

[Conquiztador]

As long as they don't flap around then i don't see how a hiviz could affect your riding. Its not a fashion show.

Hmmm... Perhaps not for someone on a 250 commuter bike. But the ones who have spent 20K for a bike and then customised with paintjobs and extras might disagree with you.

[Woodman]

Hmmm... Perhaps not for someone on a 250 commuter bike. But the ones who have spent 20K for a bike and then customised with paintjobs and extras might disagree with you.

Oh, forgot about them.

[Coolz]

I would have thought that the presence of a motorcycle could be a bit of a giveaway. Failing that, hi-vizzers could get "Biker" tattooed on their foreheads.

You miss the point. Many argue that there is so much fluro around it doesn't stand out. A colour just for bikes could be more effective...and we all know cagers just don't see bikes.

[Berries]

I know, we should make headlights compulsory as well. That'll work.

Oh, hang on.

Tell you what, you get your blue hi-viz if it makes you feel safer, but keep me out of it.


I dont know why everybody doesn't wear Hi-vis gear ...Police wear it all (ok ...a lot of) the time ... I have never heard (much) about Cop's getting run into ... It MUST work then ... <_<
I have never worn hi-viz and I have never been run in to. Neither has my dog or the lamp post outside so that cancels out your argument right there.

[FJRider]

I know, we should make headlights compulsory as well. That'll work.

Oh, hang on.

Tell you what, you get your blue hi-viz if it makes you feel safer, but keep me out of it.


I have never worn hi-viz and I have never been run in to. Neither has my dog or the lamp post outside so that cancels out your argument right there.

If you compare the number of cops wearing high viz ... to the three of you ... the odd's of a cop getting run into would be greater ... wouldn't you think ... ???

[FJRider]

I would have thought that the presence of a motorcycle could be a bit of a giveaway. Failing that, hi-vizzers could get "Biker" tattooed on their foreheads.

Licenced Harley Davidson High-vis vests would sell well ... :cool:

[oldrider]

Remember that it's contrast that makes things stick out.

If the rider was dressed top to toe in lemon, a black helmet would stand out like dogs nuts.

Popos ride in yellow, and there's one with a yellow helmet. He's less visible than his Popo mates with white helmets. It's contrast that counts, it attracts the eye.

Also, ride around looking like Sandra Bullock and I'll see you from 200 metres, every time.

Anyone notice how much a bike with it's light "off" stands out these days ..... IE it's the point of "difference" that counts!

When everyone wears flouro/hi viz .... the one who doesn't will stand out!

PS: I look like the male equivalent of Sandra Bullock but it doesn't help me much! :cool: It must be the helmet! :rolleyes:

[Berries]

PS: I look like the male equivalent of Sandra Bullock but it doesn't help me much!
What are you doing Friday night?

[Berries]

If you compare the number of cops wearing high viz ... to the three of you ... the odd's of a cop getting run into would be greater ... wouldn't you think ... ???
Look at it this way then. More cars pull out in front of or across the path of trucks, buses and other cars than they do motorbikes. Invariably they do not have their lights on or wear an oversize hi-viz vest. If vehicles with a visible frontal area much larger than a motorbike get hit, every single day, what improvement is there going to be in wearing a vest on a bike that already has its lights on? I know many will disagree, but my personal view is that whatever change there is, it won't be measurable.

[Oakie]

Licenced Harley Davidson High-vis vests would sell well ... :cool:

Marketing opportunity for someone to make 'em for gangs. Hi viz on the front, patch on the back. :laugh:

[MSTRS]

You miss the point. Many argue that there is so much fluro around it doesn't stand out. A colour just for bikes could be more effective...and we all know cagers just don't see bikes.

For the purposes of a thoughtful reply, I'm assuming you meant 'bikers'. We have such a colour now....it's called BLACK.

[Swoop]

A high-viz flag and vest for the man!!! I sooo deserve a medal for this!
You might remember the raleigh chopper pushbike? There were "chopper guard" flags in bright orange that could be attached to the bike, obviously to make them more visible.

We see so many of these safety devices nowadays. How did we ever survive with out them?256418

* Presumably the owner of this pushbike grew up to ride harleys. Tassels.:rolleyes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi Visibility = Invisibility.

http://camoupedia.blogspot.co.nz/2010/01/day-glo-camouflage.html

[HenryDorsetCase]

You might remember the raleigh chopper pushbike? There were "chopper guard" flags in bright orange that could be attached to the bike, obviously to make them more visible.

We see so many of these safety devices nowadays. How did we ever survive with out them?256418

* Presumably the owner of this pushbike grew up to ride harleys. Tassels.:rolleyes:

I was going to buy one of those because basically I am still 11 years old. Fuck, they go for huuuuuuge money. even a basket case needing full resto is huge money!

[Scuba_Steve]

Hi Visibility = Invisibility.

http://camoupedia.blogspot.co.nz/2010/01/day-glo-camouflage.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1eswGrkMU8

[FJRider]

Look at it this way then. More cars pull out in front of or across the path of trucks, buses and other cars than they do motorbikes.

The issue here is ...

The dip-shits in those cars ASSUME the truck WILL brake for THEM ... They have no idea of the dynamics required to STOP a truck in time ... to avoid THEM ... :eek:

A similar theory is used by pedestrians crossing busy roads ... (they won't run into me) :rolleyes:

In THOSE cases ... it's not about not being seen ... more the expectation that others will change their actions to suit them ... :weird:

[FJRider]

Marketing opportunity for someone to make 'em for gangs. Hi viz on the front, patch on the back. :laugh:

In the RED or BLUE of the company colours ... ??? :confused:

[GrayWolf]

The issue here is ...

The dip-shits in those cars ASSUME the truck WILL brake for THEM ... They have no idea of the dynamics required to STOP a truck in time ... to avoid THEM ... :eek:

A similar theory is used by pedestrians crossing busy roads ... (they won't run into me) :rolleyes:

In THOSE cases ... it's not about not being seen ... more the expectation that others will change their actions to suit them ... :weird:

Totally agree with that,
where I work people run across crossings in front of trains doing 70-90kph, cars play Russian roulette. Often when 'challenged' people are late for a train and run across to the platform.. In some instances there can be an express service coming the opposite direction that you will not see as it's obscured by the stopped train on the platform.... "the train hit my car"? Oh really, so a train has leapt of the tracks, smashed your vehicle, then magically returned to the tracks? Damn, all that without a steering wheel. People do not realise how much distance it takes trains to stop, even on dry tracks... when wet????? :confused:

[Oakie]

Been and gone and dunnit! Got a Rev'it Dragon from Hampton Honda here in Christchurch. Best fitting jacket I tried on and it ticked most of the boxes. (None of the several jackets I tried on ticked anywhere near all the boxes). As far as the hi-viz part was concerned I wanted a jacket with colour on the outside of the arms as I reckon that the most common SMIDSY event happens when a car is approaching from the side, not the front. It's not over the top hi-viz but it gives me what I want without looking like I'd escaped from someones LSD trip.

Laugh at me now if you want. I don't care. At least you can see me to laugh at me.

The only problem I've had with the jacket is that where the rest of the jacket is well made and good quality, the 'back protector' was just thin foam. Replaced it with the back protector from my now retired Fieldsheer jacket and it's all good. Actually I was in the market for new boots and gloves too and finished up buying all 'Rev'it' gear. Impressed with the brand so far. All very good fitting and well made.

[Monsterbishi]

I work in traffic management, wearing bright, reflective gear on a daily basis.

One day, packing up a site, had my attenuator(crash pad truck) behind me, was carrying a stack of bright orange cones on my reflective vest clad shoulder and I still ended up with a lady in a car hitting me!

I'm sticking to my black jacket...

[Oakie]

I work in traffic management, wearing bright, reflective gear on a daily basis.

One day, packing up a site, had my attenuator(crash pad truck) behind me, was carrying a stack of bright orange cones on my reflective vest clad shoulder and I still ended up with a lady in a car hitting me!

I'm sticking to my black jacket...

What was her excuse though?

[schrodingers cat]

The problem with hi-vis is that it is all bright and hi -visy when you buy it but soon dust and oil and dog slobber make it look tres' manky.

Bung.

[FJRider]

What was her excuse though?

"I didn't see you ".... ???

[Monsterbishi]

What was her excuse though?

Hard to say, never did get the hang of Mandarin :facepalm:

[Oakie]

Hard to say, never did get the hang of Mandarin :facepalm:

Ha ha. Thought it but I wasn't going to go there.

[EnzoYug]

If you want to be noticed go everywhere with your high-beams and in first gear.
Also at traffic lights you should red-line the bike whilst in neutral so that all the cars know where you are.

See Also: "Loud Pipes woulda saved ya"

[Bassmatt]

See Also: "Loud Pipes woulda saved ya"

I believe that if you are deaf you may still hold a drivers licence, however Im pretty sure you wont get one if you are blind. <_<

[Spazman727]

Aus Post puts gay little flags on the back of their postie bikes. The only effect they seem to have is whipping back at you when you go under a tree.
Post claims that it will make the postie safer and more visible, because drivers are always looking for a dull yellow piece of fabric about 2 meters in the air... (they faded after about a week on the bike)
There is the argument that a solid black (or other colour) is more visible than a jumble of colours (which wearing a vest would possibly create). This is one of the reasons for camouflage, it's not that the colours look like the forest or whatever necessarily, but that it breaks up the shape of the wearer so they no longer look like a human.
In saying that, I was once wearing a solid, bright orange jacket with reflective stuff, and I almost got hit on a round about by a guy who claimed he didn't see me. That was a solid flouro jacket which was freaking huge.
The key is not to legislate stuff to make bikers more visible to other road users, but to make other road users think about the possibility of there being a bike behind that lamp post, or in their blind spot. Until people learn to look for all possible hazards, it's up to us (and even when/if people know to look out for a bike) to make sure we are seen, or have a good escape route if things turn pear shaped.

A note on the postie flag thing, there was a guy who had worked for post for about a month and got hit by a car once. Then they brought in the flags, and he got hit by 2 cars in one week. I know that's probably because he was a retard, but it's an interesting thing to note.

[MSTRS]

...
A note on the postie flag thing, there was a guy who had worked for post for about a month and got hit by a car once. Then they brought in the flags, and he got hit by 2 cars in one week. I know that's probably because he was a retard, but it's an interesting thing to note.

It's not interesting. It is reality. No-one and nothing can make any driver see a rider. Except for the driver.

[Spazman727]

It's not interesting. It is reality. No-one and nothing can make any driver see a rider. Except for the driver.

Exactly. That's why there is no point in making it compulsory to wear a vest. All well and good if you want to, but don't let it lull you into a false sense of security.

[george formby]

I covered a 1000k's at the weekend & made a mental note to check out the bikes I passed, was passed by & the effect of their clothing. My gf is on the road now so I'm almost paranoid about her safety.
The normal vests, narrow shoulders, v neck & flappy are marginal when it comes to being seen from the front but full fluoro jackets stand out like mutts nuts from miles away. Fluoro helmets are as good if not better. I think the vests are almost pointless if your on a sportier bike. Any hoo, I e-mailed a manufacturer with this little nugget of observation because I could not find a product which fits between the two. Be interesting to see if they take it on board.

[Voltaire]

I was riding my inner city vehicle today....the scootah.....and I had a Hi Viz vest on ...... I was happily going up the bus lane when a truck in the other lane pulled across my path and blasted his horn.....I braked to avoid him as he turned left.
He was blasting his horn to tell me his rear LH indicator was not working....well thats what I figure as his front side one was working.
I think he saw my Hi Viz vest....thanks Hi Viz...:2thumbsup
Bus lanes are ok but you have to be even more vigilant.

[MSTRS]

Exactly. That's why there is no point in making it compulsory to wear a vest. All well and good if you want to, but don't let it lull you into a false sense of security.

Totally agree.
It's just that I don't find it 'interesting' that cars hit motorcycles - hi-vis, flags or not. Drivers who aren't paying attention won't be seeing you anyway. Which is where 'reality' comes in. Some of these fuckers in positions of influence, shall we say, desperately need a dose of reality themselves. A big, fuckoff, hi-vis wrapped, lethal dose. It might wake them up...

[Dodgy]

I am fairly sure that if you rode around with a lance (be it dayglo or black), motorists would notice it and take heed. Merely because they would feel threatened and would see it. Sort of like popo on bikes - motorist have no trouble seeing them as their wallets are poteintially under threat.

[Usarka]

If you want to be noticed go everywhere with your high-beams


Fuck that, I had a bike following me in the car the other day with his lights on full. I moved my mirror so I couldn't see the cunt, serves him right if he was passing and I didn't check my mirror.

If it causes a fellow rider to think that then I'm sure it would be enough to make some drivers manufacture the situation on purpose.....

[Bassmatt]

Fuck that, I had a bike following me in the car the other day with his lights on full. I moved my mirror so I couldn't see the cunt, serves him right if he was passing and I didn't check my mirror.

If it causes a fellow rider to think that then I'm sure it would be enough to make some drivers manufacture the situation on purpose.....

+1 .My wife has decided to have her light on highbeam all the time. She has now been instructed to stay well behind me (or low beam only) when we ride together as the glare in my mirrors was very distracting.
And no I dont make her ride behind me she says she doesnt like having me follow her.:rolleyes:

[Oakie]

Exactly. That's why there is no point in making it compulsory to wear a vest. All well and good if you want to, but don't let it lull you into a false sense of security.

The first day out on the road with my new jacket I had to consciously tell myself not to assume that they must see me because "feck this yellow is bright!". That only lasted a day before I was just riding normally again (as if no one could see me). It is that part that worries me with L platers wearing hi-viz and then feeling totally safe.

[Berries]

My wife has decided to have her light on highbeam all the time. She has now been instructed to stay well behind me (or low beam only) when we ride together as the glare in my mirrors was very distracting.
If a car or bike is coming towards me with its lights on full beam I stick mine on full beam as well, whether I am in a car or on a bike, day or night. Can you not tell her it uses up all the electricity quicker and is thus bad for the environment or something?

[Horney1]

You wear what you want, JUST LEAVE ME OUT OF IT! I'll wear what I want AND I'll stick to my proven tactic of watching out for THEM and avoiding THEM before their very narrow banded thought processors have even ticked over another 3 second segment as they become aware that something has just gone by. Think I'll stick with what I wear to avoid giving THEM something to fixate on and hit or decide that "Oh, no no, no that motorbike is not going to pass me". I'm happy and comfortable with what I wear. Clothe yourselves not others.

On Flouro:
I am sick of being blinded at night by bloody flouro everywhere, square meter upon square meter of blinding signage, coneage (& ridiculous street lighting) etc. I firmly believe it is actually dangerous to have bright reflective surfaces shining back at you while driving at night. Have you ever done the let your eyes adjust to the darkness thing (5 to 10 minutes) then turn on the light for a bit then turn it off and see what you can see test? You are usually basically blind for a few minutes. It annoys the crap out of me having to dip my lights going into corners because it so bloody blinding to leave them on high with all of the huge and highly reflective signs straight ahead on the edges of the corner - right at the moments when one needs to have to lights on full. Or putting my lights on full on a long straight only to be dazzled by a bright reflective sign a kilometer or two down the road. Really? Do they have to be that reflective and large? Then there is the sheer qhantity of all this flouro reflective "material" on & beside the roads. It's just too much and more confusing than helpful. I tend to look away from these things, not at them. Sorry if one of them is a motorcyclist that crosses my path! If we were not blinded by bloody lights and reflective surfaces everywhere EVERYONE stands a better chance of actually seeing what is on the road and doing whatever they need to do to get along incident free. We need less flouro on the roads, not more. TWO MOONS!

[Oakie]

I'll wear what I want AND I'll stick to my proven tactic of watching out for THEM and avoiding THEM before their very narrow banded thought processors have even ticked over another 3 second segment as they become aware that something has just gone by.

Hi-viz should never replace your tactic (and my tactic and it should be all bikers tactic of watching THEM). For me it's an addition to how I ride to keep myself safe and if it gves me another 10% chance of a car driver registering that I'm there then that's good enough for me

[MSTRS]

Fluro and reflective are two different things.
Admittedly they are often used together on 'safety' clothing.

[george formby]

Hi-viz should never replace your tactic (and my tactic and it should be all bikers tactic of watching THEM). For me it's an addition to how I ride to keep myself safe and if it gves me another 10% chance of a car driver registering that I'm there then that's good enough for me


Exacary. Riding a bike is a gamble, best to stack the deck in your favour.

[swbarnett]

Exacary. Riding a bike is a gamble, best to stack the deck in your favour.
Yes, but it can be stacked too far.

What constitutes too far must be a personal decision. Noone has the right to make that decision for us.

[george formby]

Yes, but it can be stacked too far.

What constitutes too far must be a personal decision. Noone has the right to make that decision for us.

Yup.
The concept of personal responsibility in life is becoming a memory.

Having said that I will take a potential increase in my safety over style any day.

Unless it's leg protectors.......

[Oakie]

Yes, but it can be stacked too far. What constitutes too far must be a personal decision. Noone has the right to make that decision for us.

It can never be stacked too far. Then stackier the better! What can be too far is the stuff that is made compulsory in nature. I chose to go hi-viz. I don't really think it should be compulsary ... although perhaps L platers?

[Fast Eddie]

girls should ride around in lingerie and stockings.. no one will miss that or not see that eh

[Oakie]

Yes, but it can be stacked too far. What constitutes too far must be a personal decision. Noone has the right to make that decision for us.

What say you about crash helmets? Are you saying they shouldn't have been made compulsary?

[Oakie]

girls should ride around in lingerie and stockings.. no one will miss that or not see that eh

Go on. Someone mention Honda riders...

[rustic101]

I'm not convinced that Fluro and Hi-Viz are a winner for riders for so many reasons. I ride wearing a Revit fluro vest with reflective bits and Rastacat is right its the contrast that counts.

I recently took the bike down to ChCh and there were so many fluro vests I must have looked like just another roadie or contractor perhaps even a road cone. Long story short I had a number of near misses in the city and the over arching factor was not that they couldn't dee me but rather that they don't give a fuck (DGAF). I'm also my own worse enemy as I tend not to back off or down and just hold my line.

Like most things in life - insurance, taxes and nurses etc if they add even a small amount of value when you need them, then its worth a crack but never rely on it solely!

[swbarnett]

It can never be stacked too far.
Then why do you ride? Obviously, for you, not riding would be stacking things too far.

[swbarnett]

What say you about crash helmets? Are you saying they shouldn't have been made compulsary?
Most definitely. I will always wear one but that is my personal choice that noone has the right to mandate.

[Usarka]

Then why do you ride? Obviously, for you, not riding would be stacking things too far.

+1

Every one reckons the risks they take are ok, and the safety measures they take should be compulsory.

[Oakie]

Then why do you ride? Obviously, for you, not riding would be stacking things too far.

Fair call I guess.

[Conquiztador]

A note on the postie flag thing, there was a guy who had worked for post for about a month and got hit by a car once. Then they brought in the flags, and he got hit by 2 cars in one week. I know that's probably because he was a retard, but it's an interesting thing to note.

This clearly indicates that retarded riders should not have acess to flags!

[Nasty]

I've been a little sceptical over how much difference a hi-viz vest would make. I've thought if people can't see a 55w headlight coming at them let alone something the dimensions of a motorbike on the road, how much difference would a hi-viz vest make? Especially if it is obscured behind a fairing screen. I don't disregard hi-viz completely though and my next jacket will have some.

ANYWAY ... toodling home today after a brain-draining day, I leaned into a gentle tree lined curve minding my own business when my eyes were suddenly assaulted by two patches of yellow (rider and pillion in slip over elastic hi-viz vest things) coming the other way. What blew me away though was that the two patches of yellow registered consciously in my brain before the bike did ... and it was a freakin' Gold Wing! Perhaps the random thought 'bike coming the other way' did slip in and was dismissed as 'situation normal' before the hi-viz registered a half second later but the hi-viz certainly grabbed my attention like being slapped by a flounder.

Summary: if hi-viz grabs the attention of a biker who looks for bikes on the road, I guess perhaps it just may grab the attention of a car driver who doesn't look for bikes. This would be a good thing.

Still not keen on a vest thing (fiddly) but this is what I've been planning to buy when I have assembled the necessary financial wherewithall. http://www.revzilla.com/product/revit-dragon-jacket

Have been thinking about this for a while .... I was riding to work in Hutt-Wellington traffic and noticed how well the cyclists with Hi-viz stuff stood out compared to those who didn't wear anything except dull colors or black.

Decided that wearing a fluro vest with hi-viz was probably better than wearing my standard black. So that is now what I wear when commuting.

Doesn't take away from my riding style of awareness and watching for dickheads who want to take me out ... I do that naturally anyway.

[James Deuce]

+1

Every one reckons the risks they take are ok, and the safety measures they take should be compulsory.

I don't. All "safety" measures are fundamentally pointless in regard to riding a motorcycle. State sponsored legal compulsion has a name. It kind of escapes me. Begins with "F", ends with stifling creativity, difference and ultimately killing people who don't meet the legal definition of "normal".

Most people who post here have access to the stats around motorcycle gear and the injuries it mitigates, and stories of the repercussions of "getting it wrong".

The constant bleating for yet more legislation is getting old. After being muntered a few times, I firmly believe that most of the motivation for "improving" motorcycle safety comes from a combination of the anti-motorcycle lobby and gear manufacturers trying to sell ever more complex protection "systems".

Sort your own limits out, stop lecturing people. IT'S BORING!

[Ocean1]

I don't. All "safety" measures are fundamentally pointless in regard to riding a motorcycle. State sponsored legal compulsion has a name. It kind of escapes me. Begins with "F", ends with stifling creativity, difference and ultimately killing people who don't meet the legal definition of "normal".

Compulsion sponsered by anyone has a name starting with F.

Ends with OFF.


It the sponser's persistent he gets punctuation, too.

[Bass]

After being muntered a few times, IT'S BORING!

I suspect that it may be "munted" that you mean.
As I recall, Munter was a big solid lad with a reputation for being rather well equipped. So if I am in fact wrong and you have indeed been muntered, I hope that it wasn't too uncomfortable and wonder when you got your Honda?

[James Deuce]

I suspect that it may be "munted" that you mean.
As I recall, Munter was a big solid lad with a reputation for being rather well equipped. So if I am in fact wrong and you have indeed been muntered, I hope that it wasn't too uncomfortable and wonder when you got your Honda?
It's about time someone paid attention!

[NONONO]

I don't. All "safety" measures are fundamentally pointless in regard to riding a motorcycle. State sponsored legal compulsion has a name. It kind of escapes me. Begins with "F", ends with stifling creativity, difference and ultimately killing people who don't meet the legal definition of "normal".

Most people who post here have access to the stats around motorcycle gear and the injuries it mitigates, and stories of the repercussions of "getting it wrong".

The constant bleating for yet more legislation is getting old. After being muntered a few times, I firmly believe that most of the motivation for "improving" motorcycle safety comes from a combination of the anti-motorcycle lobby and gear manufacturers trying to sell ever more complex protection "systems".

Sort your own limits out, stop lecturing people. IT'S BORING!

And totally fking pointless, oh, already said, sorry.
Safety Nazis, interestingly mostly the people that bleat bout the Nanny State.

[Fatt Max]

Couldn't give a flying fuck to be honest

I am a big fat bastard and if you cant see me you are blind...

All high viz will do is turn me into a Team NZ spinnaker, and I have enough of them for underpants.......

[Oakie]

All "safety" measures are fundamentally pointless in regard to riding a motorcycle.

Helmets are pointless?
Boots are pointless?
Abrasion resistant jackets and pants are pointless?
'Armour' is pointless?
Gloves are pointless?
Headlights on is pointless?

Gotta be careful with those sweeping generalisations fella. Sure, my list won't help you ride but you'll be greatful for the first five when you slide.

[Usarka]

Helmets are pointless?
Boots are pointless?
Abrasion resistant jackets and pants are pointless?
'Armour' is pointless?
Gloves are pointless?
Headlights on is pointless?

Gotta be careful with those sweeping generalisations fella. Sure, my list won't help you ride but you'll be greatful for the first five when you slide.

Cars are pointless?

[Fatt Max]

Circumcision is pointless......

[James Deuce]

Helmets are pointless?
Boots are pointless?
Abrasion resistant jackets and pants are pointless?
'Armour' is pointless?
Gloves are pointless?
Headlights on is pointless?

Gotta be careful with those sweeping generalisations fella. Sure, my list won't help you ride but you'll be greatful for the first five when you slide.
Yes. None of those things are anything but token protection for a sack of water that is designed to absorb impacts up to 18km/hr without mortal injury. Over that speed, it's a crap shoot as to how it turns out.

[Oakie]

Point taken. None of it will help if you collide with a wall at 200kph. It'll all help if you slide down the road at 100kph though.
We are fragile but if the circumstances aren't extreme, the safety gear I listed will at least minimise the effect.

[Berries]

Helmets are pointless?
Boots are pointless?
Abrasion resistant jackets and pants are pointless?
'Armour' is pointless?
Gloves are pointless?
Headlights on is pointless?

Gotta be careful with those sweeping generalisations fella. Sure, my list won't help you ride but you'll be greatful for the first five when you slide.
If.

I wear a helmet because it is the law. And stuff hurts when it hits your head at high speed so I would wear one anyway.

I wear gloves because they keep my hands warm. And stuff hurts when it hits your hands at high speed.

I have headlights on because they are wired on. Bastards.

JD was right, all safety features are fundamentally pointless when it comes to riding on two wheels. You know the one thing I am sure I would have been grateful for "when" I slide?

A car.

[quickbuck]

If.

You know the one thing I am sure I would have been grateful for "when" I slide?

A car.

Well.... Personally I wouldn't be....
IF, I was to have a slide, the last thing I want anywhere near me is a car.........

















See what I did there ;)
Taking things out of context like Close-up since ages ago...

[Berries]

Did I say that people who ride around with their headlights on full beam are arrogant wankers?

I meant to, after having one behind me today. I mean, if you are that concerned about your own safety that you are wiling to piss off and annoy every other road user you'd be better off with a nice safe car.

[Number One]

Slapped by a flounder! Love it. Man that would be satisfying to do that to someone deserving and the comedic value - off the charts ;) as for high vis. I'm not convinced personally.

[Oakie]

as for high vis. I'm not convinced personally. It is important, especially when using it, to remain unconvinced. Never rely on it.

[Zedder]

Did I say that people who ride around with their headlights on full beam are arrogant wankers?

I meant to, after having one behind me today. I mean, if you are that concerned about your own safety that you are wiling to piss off and annoy every other road user you'd be better off with a nice safe car.

Notice them much though?

[Urano]

hi viz is a good idea.

always remember that by itself it is not sufficient to keep us alive.
anyway it helps.

at this point though i'd do the full step:
http://www.jofama.com/motorcycle_wear/product_details.php?lang=2&id=48&cid=5

hiviz AND certified CE gear.

comparable price... :)

[James Deuce]

You know that stuff manufactured in China and Pakistan can fall foul of the habit of less scrupulous or contracted manufacturers just stamping "CE" on an item to claim CE certification? This is where the compulsion falls down badly. Certain manufacturers can be trusted to follow the process. Others less so. How do you tell? Cost? I don't think that's a good guide.

Hi-Viz doesn't do anything except make bureaucrats feel like they are doing something. You can design studies to prove that it does, and equally doesn't do anything.

What works for me is not riding at all. Which is more stupid than wearing Hi-Viz. From a personal perspective, Hi-Viz makes no difference to the amount proactive risk avoidance management I have to undertake.

[swbarnett]

Notice them much though?
What's the point of noticing the bike behind you if you only to rear-end the one in front of you because you're blinded?

[swbarnett]

hi viz is a good idea.

always remember that by itself it is not sufficient to keep us alive.
anyway it helps.
I am now totally black - bike and all gear. I also have PVC rain gear that's bright yellow. It matters not whether I'm in yellow or black. I am seen or not seen by the same amount.

[Zedder]

What's the point of noticing the bike behind you if you only to rear-end the one in front of you because you're blinded?

There was no mention of being blinded.

Plenty of web sites/bikers forums advocate riding with lights on full beam.

[MSTRS]

And plenty of them also advocate breaking the law in other ways too...


From the NZTA website:
Only use main beam headlamps when you’re driving on the open road and there are no other vehicles directly in front of you or coming towards you. You must switch to dipped beam as soon as you notice other vehicles ahead to avoid dazzling them.

The other requirement is NO USE of high beam IN A BUILDUP AREA.

[James Deuce]

There was no mention of being blinded.

Plenty of web sites/bikers forums advocate riding with lights on full beam.

Well, they're both rude and stupid. High beam will mask the vehicle behind it making it impossible see what is generating the light source - in some circumstances.

Humans gauge distance by triangulation which is why headlights are on the corners, as far apart as possible. Which is why people "don't see" motorcycles, even with their headlight on. It's difficult to gauge the distance and speed of an object with only a single point of reference.

Why make it any harder for people to see you? A single bright light is a brilliant way to log a UFO sighting. Large meteors skimming the atmosphere 10 miles up can look like they are "just over there" and moving impossibly fast.

I have a mate who used to ride on high beam, plus had two HID spotlights just under the headlight. You'd get purple afterimages if you glanced at him in your mirrors. Head-on, you could only tell how far away he was if you knew the terrain and could guess what he was driving past. Of course you could only see with your peripheral vision thanks to the purple afterimages and black spots that would last for hours after accidentally glancing at the UFO cresting the rise on the opposite side of the road.

[Zedder]

And plenty of them also advocate breaking the law in other ways too...



The other requirement is NO USE of high beam IN A BUILDUP AREA.

Berries post didn't have time of day or place etc but was a blanket statement about "arrogant wankers" who had their headlights on full.

The person in question could have just forgotton to dip them.

[MSTRS]

Berries post didn't have time of day or place etc but was a blanket statement about "arrogant wankers" who had their headlights on full.

The person in question could have just forgotton to dip them.

Maybe. But the subject is about being seen. There are plenty of riders who use hi-beam ALL the time during the day. They don't care what other motorists OR riders suffer as a result of being dazzled. They are the arrogant ones that I'm sure Berries refers to. As do I and JD etc...

[Zedder]

Maybe. But the subject is about being seen. There are plenty of riders who use hi-beam ALL the time during the day. They don't care what other motorists OR riders suffer as a result of being dazzled. They are the arrogant ones that I'm sure Berries refers to. As do I and JD etc...

Are motorbike lights on high beam that dazzling? Maybe I've just got used to it.

[MSTRS]

Are motorbike lights on high beam that dazzling? Maybe I've just got used to it.

Just like cars, some are better than others on that score.
Tell me - if you drive a 'normal' car, do you get pissed off with SUV headlights following directly behind you? They physically sit higher to start with (just like 'most' bikes)...imagine if they flicked them on high too...

[Zedder]

Just like cars, some are better than others on that score.
Tell me - if you drive a 'normal' car, do you get pissed off with SUV headlights following directly behind you? They physically sit higher to start with (just like 'most' bikes)...imagine if they flicked them on high too...

How dare you ask if I drive a car!

Seriously though, I can't think of the last time I was hassled by high beams. It's not like I've been blinded to the extent that I couldn't control the vehicle I'm was driving /riding.

Most drivers/riders seem to be very courteous and realise quickly if they're being an unintentional nuisance. If it's the other case then some sort of signal sorts it out.

[swbarnett]

There was no mention of being blinded.
I've been blinded by a bike's high beam while driving a car. Depends on the bike and the light. Even if the driver isn't blinded it seriously increases eye fatigue for those with sensitive eyes and can render the rear-vision mirrors useless.

[Berries]

Berries post didn't have time of day or place etc but was a blanket statement about "arrogant wankers" who had their headlights on full.

The person in question could have just forgotton to dip them.
Middle of the day, perfect conditions. At night I can forgive someone for forgetting to turn them off. Nearly.

And yes, it is an offence-

8.3 Use of motor vehicle lighting equipment on road
(1) A person must not use vehicle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.
(2) If a vehicle’s headlamps are in use, a driver must dip those headlamps—
(a) whenever they would be likely to interfere adversely with the vision of another driver in motion on a road; or...........

[Ocean1]

High beam will mask the vehicle behind it making it impossible see what is generating the light source - in some circumstances.

I'm finding I have that problem recently seeing past signage on corners. There's a couple near home here where some big chevron signs are exactly perpendicular to oncomming traffic, can't see a fucking thing beyond them at night.

[caspernz]

I'm finding I have that problem recently seeing past signage on corners. There's a couple near home here where some big chevron signs are exactly perpendicular to oncomming traffic, can't see a fucking thing beyond them at night.

Yeah, I find the same with some roundabouts being littered with either loads of signs at the wrong height or simply planted with greenery that makes sightlines a joke...

[James Deuce]

Yellow ones are way worse than the old white chevrons.

[Bassmatt]

I'm finding I have that problem recently seeing past signage on corners. There's a couple near home here where some big chevron signs are exactly perpendicular to oncomming traffic, can't see a fucking thing beyond them at night.

They are probably considered a "traffic calming" device, all the better to make you slow down cos speed kills remember. :facepalm:

[Berries]

Nah, they are installed wrong. It's a particularly bad problem for elderly people because their eyes take even longer to refocus after being dazzled at night.

[James Deuce]

Nah, they are installed wrong. It's a particularly bad problem for elderly people because their eyes take even longer to refocus after being dazzled at night.
Watch it sonny!

[Spazman727]

I don't. All "safety" measures are fundamentally pointless in regard to riding a motorcycle. State sponsored legal compulsion has a name. It kind of escapes me. Begins with "F", ends with stifling creativity, difference and ultimately killing people who don't meet the legal definition of "normal".
IT'S BORING!

I like that coming from the Grammar Nazi.:whistle:

From a utilitarian point of view, no one other than the individual concerned should be able to impose personal safety measures on someone to prevent harm to themselves, unless they are mentally incapable of understanding the implications of their actions i.e a child can legitimately be prevented from doing something which will cause themselves harm because they do not yet posses the faculties required to realise that what they are doing may cause them harm. so, that essentially means that the state should not legislate that people must wear helmets because they (presumably) understand the risks etc of not wearing one, and the only physical harm that can be done is to the rider themselves. However, there are other harms that can be done to other people which result from a rider who is not wearing a helmet if they crash, i.e the riders family who lose a loved one and a possible source of financial support. so therefore, the state does have a right to make the wearing of a helmet while riding compulsory as there is evidence (somewhere) that says that helmets can reduce head injuries and death in the event of a crash.
On the point of Hi Vis however, there is little or no data to support that they make a rider more visible and so less likely to be hit, so therefore, the state has no right to force someone to wear hi vis.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but maybe its food for thought?

[James Deuce]

I like that coming from the Grammar Nazi.:whistle:

From a utilitarian point of view, no one other than the individual concerned should be able to impose personal safety measures on someone to prevent harm to themselves, unless they are mentally incapable of understanding the implications of their actions i.e a child can legitimately be prevented from doing something which will cause themselves harm because they do not yet posses the faculties required to realise that what they are doing may cause them harm. so, that essentially means that the state should not legislate that people must wear helmets because they (presumably) understand the risks etc of not wearing one, and the only physical harm that can be done is to the rider themselves. However, there are other harms that can be done to other people which result from a rider who is not wearing a helmet if they crash, i.e the riders family who lose a loved one and a possible source of financial support. so therefore, the state does have a right to make the wearing of a helmet while riding compulsory as there is evidence (somewhere) that says that helmets can reduce head injuries and death in the event of a crash.
On the point of Hi Vis however, there is little or no data to support that they make a rider more visible and so less likely to be hit, so therefore, the state has no right to force someone to wear hi vis.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but maybe its food for thought?

What bilge! What does "grammar" have to do with my position, wall of text man?

Helmets make bureaucrats feel good. The lines between fine, disturbed, scrambled, and vegetable are not distinct. Head injuries are a spectrum disorder. The mildest head injury still affects family, financially, emotionally, and often physically.

We live in a civilised society. I'm tired of the line that families must bear the burden of a "loved one's" rehabilitation or ongoing care. We ALL do. Make an effort to keep up or move back to that damn cave.

[Berries]

However, there are other harms that can be done to other people which result from a rider who is not wearing a helmet if they crash, i.e the riders family who lose a loved one and a possible source of financial support. so therefore, the state does have a right to make the wearing of a helmet while riding compulsory as there is evidence (somewhere) that says that helmets can reduce head injuries and death in the event of a crash.
I imagine if you look hard enough you might find some evidence that riding a motorbike is dangerous as well. Should the state have the right to say what form of transport you should use to prevent harm to loved ones?

[Conquiztador]

Well see... The society we live in does today change rapidly. Things we took for granted yesterday are not tolerated anymore today, and things we have just learnt to live with will change tomorrow.

My gripe with all this is that nothing is planned properly. All new rules and regulations are ad hoc. And more often than not as a result of a knee jerk reaction to something that has just happened. If you did run a business in that fashion you would very soon end up closing your door.

Personally I think the main cause for all this is the erosion of our personal responsibility. If people fuck up today they look for someone else to blame. So the ones that have been blamed in the past have become scared and try to cover them self for any possibility. But by doing this they are actually adding to the problem, as now people start to rely on there being a rule/policy/law/regulation for anything and everything. And if they manage to find a loop hole and injure them self by riding a bike while holding a pair of sissors and they then stab them self in the leg while turning, it has to be someone elses fault. So if there is no law stating that you can not ride a bike with a pair of sissors in your hand, then they will blame it on the ones who did not put that law in place. One of the most stupid things I have seen is the sticker on rearview mirrors that state: "Warning, the image in the mirror will look smaller than it actually is" or something to that effect. I have not done any research in to this, but would expet that the text is there so they do not get sued by some muppet who do not know how to use a mirror.

Re the dayglow vest issue; I will never wear one. I take 100% responsibility for my own riding and the only thing I do agree with Katman on is that if I crash it is because I fucked up. Be it that I smashed in to a grandma who came out from a driveway, I slammed in to a big pothole in the road or I find my self needed to be peeled of the radiator of a bus. It does not matter. I should have anticipated it. The dayglow vest will do absolutley nothing one way or another.

[Oakie]

Re the dayglow vest issue; I will never wear one. I take 100% responsibility for my own riding and the only thing I do agree with Katman on is that if I crash it is because I fucked up.

What if you're sitting somewhere in a stream of traffic and get slammed from behind? Not your fault. You can take 100% responsibility but there are circumstances that you cannot control. (Although admitedly whenever I stop in a stream of traffic I always check the mirrors. Saved me once too.)

[Conquiztador]

What if you're sitting somewhere in a stream of traffic and get slammed from behind? Not your fault. You can take 100% responsibility but there are circumstances that you cannot control. (Although admitedly whenever I stop in a stream of traffic I always check the mirrors. Saved me once too.)

Same applies: I am the only one in charge of my decision makings. If I am not alert and have an escape plan no matter where I am or what I am doing while on my bike and something goes wrong, it is my fault. And if you think I would need a dayglow vest when I sit in the traffic so that some half blind cager won't hit me, then we are fucked anyhow, as the way the whole issue is handled is not addressing the issue.

[MSTRS]

One of the most stupid things I have seen is the sticker on rearview mirrors that state: "Warning, the image in the mirror will look smaller than it actually is" ...

Thank the yanks. Their litigious society is all-pervading.
The people that brought you "Caution: contents may be hot" on coffee-to-go cups. Oh - and one about remaining in the driver's seat when using cruise control...

[Spazman727]

What bilge! What does "grammar" have to do with my position, wall of text man?

I wasn't having a go at you, I thought it was funny what you said. No, grammar has nothing to do with it, I just found the way you worded it amusing. And with my wall of text, I was trying to point out how ridiculous it is that the state tries to legislate all this stuff to protect individuals. It can go so far that the state will prevent anyone doing anything.

[Oakie]

And if you think I would need a dayglow vest when I sit in the traffic so that some half blind cager won't hit me, then we are fucked anyhow, as the way the whole issue is handled is not addressing the issue.

Well you shouldn't have to need it (hi viz) but it sure ain't going to hurt.
Actually the reason I got the jacket with the hi viz now was that the jacket had to be replaced anyway and I didn't want to get a normal one and be legislated to wear a vest or similar later on. Couldn't stand to have another external garment flapping around so I've done hi-viz on my terms.

Last word; I agree, the issue may lie elsewhere as you say but sometimes you just can't eliminate the issue so you mitigate against it in other ways. Basic Health and Safety. Eliminate the hazard but when you can't eliminate you Isolate or Minimise.

[swbarnett]

Well you shouldn't have to need it (hi viz) but it sure ain't going to hurt.
I would define having " another external garment flapping around " as a definite negative.

[Oakie]

I would define having " another external garment flapping around " as a definite negative.

Which is exactly why I went for a jacket with the hi viz built in.

[Swoop]

I am fairly sure that if you rode around with a lance (be it dayglo or black), motorists would notice it and take heed.
Try having a firearm on you/the bike. Would they notice?


The first day out on the road with my new jacket I had to consciously tell myself not to assume that they must see me because "feck this yellow is bright!". That only lasted a day... It is that part that worries me with L platers wearing hi-viz and then feeling totally safe.
Work story.
We have an extremely dangerous workplace but proper training mitigates the dangers. Hence we have a superb safety record.
The ONLY person to wear hi-viz here (ever) bought their lovely vest and before the day was out had proceeded to cut their hand in a very serious manner.
When he returned he was no longer wearing the vest and it was never seen again.
"I'm safe now" syndrome in action?

[scumdog]

T
When he returned he was no longer wearing the vest and it was never seen again.
"I'm safe now" syndrome in action?

Like the "I'm safe now" syndrom that helmet wearers, seat-belt wearers etc suffer from??

[Zedder]

Try having a firearm on you/the bike. Would they notice?


Work story.
We have an extremely dangerous workplace but proper training mitigates the dangers. Hence we have a superb safety record.
The ONLY person to wear hi-viz here (ever) bought their lovely vest and before the day was out had proceeded to cut their hand in a very serious manner.
When he returned he was no longer wearing the vest and it was never seen again.
"I'm safe now" syndrome in action?

So the stupid machine or whatever that cut him didn't see his hi-viz?

[Badjelly]

I was riding my inner city vehicle today....the scootah.....and I had a Hi Viz vest on ...... I was happily going up the bus lane when a truck in the other lane pulled across my path and blasted his horn.....I braked to avoid him as he turned left.
He was blasting his horn to tell me his rear LH indicator was not working....well thats what I figure as his front side one was working.
I think he saw my Hi Viz vest....thanks Hi Viz...:2thumbsup
Bus lanes are ok but you have to be even more vigilant.

What a considerate bloke! Do you think the option of not turning across the bus lane occurred to him? Do you think he might not have turned across it if perhaps, you know, a bus had been coming?

[Swoop]

Like the "I'm safe now" syndrom that helmet wearers, seat-belt wearers etc suffer from??
Not your best strawman.
You know that seatbelts and helmets are genuine safety devices rather than a coloured piece of fabric.

[swbarnett]

Like the "I'm safe now" syndrom that helmet wearers, seat-belt wearers etc suffer from??
Exactly. Look up "Risk Homeostasis".

[Usarka]

Which is exactly why I went for a jacket with the hi viz built in.

Bugger if it's not compliant when they make hi-vis compulsory

[Oakie]

Bugger if it's not compliant when they make hi-vis compulsory

Yeah it is. Probably still 4 or 5 years away though. Who knows. It may never happen.

[Old Steve]

If you are of the "wear a Hi-Viz" school of thought, NOW is the time to buy a Hi-Viz overjacket.

In August this year the Australian/NZ safety standard for Hi-Viz jackets changes - slight increase in the area of Hi-Viz and reflective surfaces. So current jackets carry the ANZ standard number with the old year included. After August jackets will carry the ANZ standard number with 2012 included.

That means that wholesalers will NOT be able to sell the old standard Hi-Viz jackets after August this year. There are some bargains available in old standard Hi-Viz jackets - like 60% off trade! - which will still be able to be worn after August this year, just not sold after that date.

Just go into an engineers supplies store or a safety store and ask what prices their old standard Hi-Viz jackets are.

[Oakie]

On my lunchtime stroll a couple of days ago I heard a pleasant burble of a big V twin. Looked around and I saw a customised Harley (I guess). Ape hangers, big sissy-bar, extended forks etc and a nice blue custom paint job. Oddly out of place though was the rider wearing a hi-viz vest. Even some hard-core are happy to get visible it seems.

[Conquiztador]

On my lunchtime stroll a couple of days ago I heard a pleasant burble of a big V twin. Looked around and I saw a customised Harley (I guess). Ape hangers, big sissy-bar, extended forks etc and a nice blue custom paint job. Oddly out of place though was the rider wearing a hi-viz vest. Even some hard-core are happy to get visible it seems.

Not wanting to kick your assumption to the kerb but... From your brief explanation re what he was riding it sounds like one of those $80K billet shop "customs" from the states. No self respecting "hard-core" biker would be seen on one. I think it might have been a wannabe who has made good money and now thinks he can buy him self a lifestyle. (Was there tassles on that day glow vest??)

[Oakie]

Not wanting to kick your assumption to the kerb but... From your brief explanation re what he was riding it sounds like one of those $80K billet shop "customs" from the states. No self respecting "hard-core" biker would be seen on one. I think it might have been a wannabe who has made good money and now thinks he can buy him self a lifestyle. (Was there tassles on that day glow vest??)
Yeah, you're probably right actually. And there were no tassles that I could see but the vest was dirty.

[Oakie]

Well there's a new wrinkle. Saw a guy today riding along wearing his nice hi-viz vest ... wearing shorts! Must have been bi-polar or something. Oh the contradiction! Truly hope he doesn't think the hi-viz works that well.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Well there's a new wrinkle. Saw a guy today riding along wearing his nice hi-viz vest ... wearing shorts! Must have been bi-polar or something. Oh the contradiction! Truly hope he doesn't think the hi-viz works that well.

I wuite often see that: its because hi viz has become ubiquitous in this town. Hell, even I own a hardhat and hi viz vest

[Berries]

Obviously it does otherwise he would be dead or in a wheelchair.

[oldrider]

Don't be in too big of a hurry to buy Hi-viz .... I am currently working on a project to develop a "Hi-vis black" for motorcycle apparel!

Can't say too much at this stage as I am still testing it but ........ soon! :shutup: ..... You guy's will be the first to know! :niceone:

Will probably be marketed by word of mouth! :ride: :psst:

[swbarnett]

Don't be in too big of a hurry to buy Hi-viz .... I am currently working on a project to develop a "Hi-vis black" for motorcycle apparel!

Can't say too much at this stage as I am still testing it but ........ soon! :shutup: ..... You guy's will be the first to know! :niceone:

Will probably be marketed by word of mouth! :ride: :psst:
Even if it looks and feels like real leather I won't wear it on a matter of principle.

[MSTRS]

... "Hi-vis black"...

Been around since ages ago in signwriter's vinyl.
It's not really black - more a dark charcoal - and it reflects as white.

[oldrider]

Even if it looks and feels like real leather I won't wear it on a matter of principle.

You have really hurt my feelings! :weep:


Been around since ages ago in signwriter's vinyl.
It's not really black - more a dark charcoal - and it reflects as white.

Yet my product is the colour of BS and reflects as the same colour as inside pink, with a smell to match! :blip: (I just fealt like talking shit!) :thud:

[swbarnett]

You have really hurt my feelings! :weep:
Nothing personal. I don't believe in hi-vis and refuse to be dictated to.

[Conquiztador]

Well there's a new wrinkle. Saw a guy today riding along wearing his nice hi-viz vest ... wearing shorts! Must have been bi-polar or something. Oh the contradiction! Truly hope he doesn't think the hi-viz works that well.

The sales pitch is working! Reminds me of that joke re this young kid that walks in to the corner dairy and asks for a box of Tampax. Why do you want them the shop owner wonders. "I did see on TV that you can play tennis, swim, ski etc, when using them" he replies. "So I figured if I had some I could do all that too!"