Dealer/distributor price gouging continues unabated

[Bassmatt]

Yes I know there is a thread on here about this but I cant seem to find it so....
After my trip through the Forgotten Highway
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146255-Forgotten-Highway-Warning

I found that stones and tar had got up into my radiator fan preventing it from turning and caused the motor to burn out. So I made a call to my friendly Kawasaki dealer to order a new one.....

$600!!!
" I only want the fan" I told him "not the radiator as well". "Yes sir one radiator fan without the radiator is $600". :shit:

So thats yet another purchase that will be going offshore.
US$40 on Ebay, second hand.

[Maha]

Local suppliers may wise up.....eventually.

[Katman]

Don't point the finger at the dealers.

Pricing rests solely with the distributor.

[MSTRS]

Don't point the finger at the dealers.

Pricing rests solely with the distributor.

Eh! Wrong! Pricing rests with each step of the chain. Finishing with the retailer. Who may or may not add a murderous markup.

[Maha]

Don't point the finger at the dealers.

Pricing rests solely with the distributor.

...its the markup that makes a difference.
Example: a brand new item was purchased two weeks ago (actually, we got it for free) but it cost $38.00 if you know the right people.
Over the counter..its $65.00

[FJRider]

... but it cost $38.00 if you know the right people.
Over the counter..its $65.00

Is that "if you know the right people" price ... inclusive of GST and delivery charges ... ???

[Bassmatt]

Local suppliers may wise up.....eventually.

I w.onder if they even WANT to be supplying parts, at these prices eventually no one will even ask for a price on a part so they wont need to stock them.
Also was quoted $18 for a bolt which Im sure the factory in China spits out for a couple of cents each.

[Maha]

Is that "if you know the right people" price ... inclusive of GST and delivery charges ... ???

Free of both...like I said, it cost us nothing.
My point was, the Markup on the product is almost double.

[Scuba_Steve]

Eh! Wrong! Pricing rests with each step of the chain. Finishing with the retailer. Who may or may not add a murderous markup.

and that right there is the problem we having, too many links in the chain each adding their 50% mark-up regardless of any "value" added in getting it to it's final destination, you the customer.

[Katman]

Eh! Wrong! Pricing rests with each step of the chain. Finishing with the retailer. Who may or may not add a murderous markup.

The distributor sets the recommended retail price.

They would not look favourably on their dealers/retailers starting pricing wars.

[zeocen]

The ZX14 needed a new lower fairing cowl and it was something in the order of $340. Got it and went to install it and noticed it didn't have the little foam strip where you join the two fairings together. Called up and asked about it, "Oh that's an extra $40".

A TINY STRIP OF FOAM.

FOURTY DOLLARS.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes I know there is a thread on here about this but I cant seem to find it so....
After my trip through the Forgotten Highway
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146255-Forgotten-Highway-Warning

I found that stones and tar had got up into my radiator fan preventing it from turning and caused the motor to burn out. So I made a call to my friendly Kawasaki dealer to order a new one.....

$600!!!
" I only want the fan" I told him "not the radiator as well". "Yes sir one radiator fan without the radiator is $600". :shit:

So thats yet another purchase that will be going offshore.
US$40 on Ebay, second hand.

Was it in stock or did they have to order it in? We put a bigger mark up on stock items than ordered parts.
Are they a direct suppler or does it come in from Aussie? Anything we get via Aussie is double the price.

On saying that $600 for a $40 part, there is something wrong there.

[Katman]

Free of both...like I said, it cost us nothing.
My point was, the Markup on the product is almost double.

No, it's not Mark.

That $38 (cost price) part that you got free would no doubt cost the dealer $38 plus GST plus freight.

That would take the true cost price to the dealer nearer to $50.

A $15 mark-up is hardly exorbitant.

[MSTRS]

The distributor sets the recommended retail price.

They would not look favourably on their dealers/retailers starting pricing wars.

They might state a RRP, but really? They 'set' it? I doubt that. They charge the dealer $X and 'suggest' that $Y is what the dealer should sell it for. But the dealer is the one who understands the retail game, and the dealer sets the price he is comfortable with. Sometimes the markup is high, and sometimes it's not. If dealers all over the country sold the same item at the same price, that would make a mockery of the freight part of the price eh? Pity the poor bastard in Invers having to sell at the same price as the dealer right next door to the wholesaler in Orks.

[Katman]

On saying that $600 for a $40 part, there is something wrong there.

$40US second hand

[MSTRS]

On saying that $600 for a $40 part, there is something wrong there.

New, in NZ $600 is being asked
Used, in US $40us is being asked.

Wrong? Not really. Would be - if new price in US was $40 compared to $600 here...

[FJRider]

... My point was, the Markup on the product is almost double.

My point was ... if the product was supplied through the shop, GST and shipping costs (courier ???) woud add $15-$20 ... the extra $7 charged by the shop is hardly exorbitant ... :shutup:

[BoristheBiter]

$40US second hand

Like i said there seems to be something wrong, it might not work either.

[Bassmatt]

Was it in stock or did they have to order it in? We put a bigger mark up on stock items than ordered parts.
Are they a direct suppler or does it come in from Aussie? Anything we get via Aussie is double the price.

No idea, once I regained consciousness I didnt enquire any further.
Its a (admittedly) pretty small 12v electric motor with a plastic fan attatched. $600 ffs I dont even know if thats incl gst.

[Bassmatt]

$40US second hand


Like i said there seems to be something wrong, it might not work either.

Cheapest one on there is $15.
It'll work.

[Maha]

My point was ... if the product was supplied through the shop, GST and shipping costs (courier ???) woud add $15-$20 ... the extra $7 charged by the shop is hardly exorbitant ... :shutup:

Shit and chewed dates are not the same thing.
Though I suspect some would try and convince others that they are.

[FJRider]

Shit and chewed dates are not the same thing.
Though I suspect some would try and convince others that they are.

It is (budget wise) best to deal direct with the supplier of the product you want.

If you can't be bothered ... then expect to pay more. Only afterwards ... people realise how MUCH they could have SAVED ...

[Kiwi Graham]

Many years ago in a previous life I was a test rider (ha ha) for a Harley Davidson dealership.
One very quiet day we thought we would price a 1340 Dyna Glide in parts.

This bike cost just shy of 15,000 pounds as it sat on the shop floor.
Now this was back in the days of microfiche machines and took a while to work out and………..
The sum total for this bike in parts added up to 98,000 pounds!!!!!!

Don’t think the parts mark up thing is unique to NZ :(

[tri boy]

Genuine TriumphScrambler/Speedmaster igniter, $1400NZ.
Procom igniter, with several built in maps, and more available on line, landed in NZ from the states in 5 working days...............$298NZ.


FUCK YOU TRIUMPH NZ

[onearmedbandit]

Many years ago in a previous life I was a test rider (ha ha) for a Harley Davidson dealership.
One very quiet day we thought we would price a 1340 Dyna Glide in parts.

This bike cost just shy of 15,000 pounds as it sat on the shop floor.
Now this was back in the days of microfiche machines and took a while to work out and………..
The sum total for this bike in parts added up to 98,000 pounds!!!!!!

Don’t think the parts mark up thing is unique to NZ :(

A friend of mine working in the bike industry did the same thing not too long back, he reckoned about 7-8x the price of the bike, which is not far off what you worked out.

Bought some stuff a while back from the states, including a rear seat cowl for a friends '09 Blade. Honda's price here, and needed to be ordered in, was $630. My landed price, bought from a retail outfit in the states, genuine Honda piece, for US$164 (NZ$210 at the time). Landed including freight and taxes was about $280.


What gives there?

Don't worry, I started a thread on it here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132790-Buy-from-NZ-I-tried-but-come-on...

[bikaholic]

The fan ex US will be to as much to ship as well.

A 12v dc axial fan ex jaycar or RS will do the job if you pick one close to the size, it is only shifting air (as fans do) when MC is stationary.

[neels]

You guys need to buy Yamahas, at least their dealers aren't thieving cunts.

Parts I have bought are the same price in $NZ as in $US on the interweb, including freight and shipped from aust.

So yeah, the owners of lesser brands of motorcycle are being ripped off.


A 12v dc axial fan ex jaycar or RS will do the job if you pick one close to the size, it is only shifting air (as fans do) when MC is stationary.
In a thread about ripoff markups, you suggest buying from RS. Seriously?

[munster]

Just ordered 4 clear indicator lenses for the sum total of $94.56 NZD including freight from Crusiser Customizing.

Local un-named Suzuki dealer wanted $79 each!

I do want & try to support local businesses, but with prices like that I can't afford to.

[Grant`]

I have ongoing issue with my dealer, he is great and will bend over backwards to help me. But he knows he can't match on prices....

Bluewing Honda want $450 (on sale from over $600) for a seat cowl for my Predator, I can get a brand new one landed from UK for just over $200-$250 with shipping, I brought a second hand one along with some pazzo levers (which came off a bike which had done maybe 1000k's) off another forum in UK shipped to here for $340 nz both in mint condition and less than the cost of a brand new seat cowl here...

[Mungatoke Mad]

Was it in stock or did they have to order it in? We put a bigger mark up on stock items than ordered parts.
Are they a direct suppler or does it come in from Aussie? Anything we get via Aussie is double the price.

On saying that $600 for a $40 part, there is something wrong there.About 10 years ago I destroyed the rear hub on my XR 400 Honda wanted 840$ for a GENUINE replacement no spokes,rim,tyre,fly buys nothing:gob: I ended up getting a cr "19"rear wheel for that bike/still on it to this day/ about 5 years before that I needed 1 of the small plastic connecting tubes between the Twin carb float bowels XL 250 85ish Honda GENUINE replacement 39$ +GST & postage & handling & would take 21 days for the JAP'S to ship it:pinch: I went to the wreckers found a carb in a rack of random carbs pulled the part off asked the guy how much he said 1$ I said fuck that here's 2.:laugh: I hate that word GENUINE thank god for Interweb Shopping :yes:

[Mungatoke Mad]

Many years ago in a previous life I was a test rider (ha ha) for a Harley Davidson dealership.
One very quiet day we thought we would price a 1340 Dyna Glide in parts.

This bike cost just shy of 15,000 pounds as it sat on the shop floor.
Now this was back in the days of microfiche machines and took a while to work out and………..
The sum total for this bike in parts added up to 98,000 pounds!!!!!! :( Are you Sure you didn't leave out a couple of 00's :laugh:

[JimO]

...its the markup that makes a difference.
Example: a brand new item was purchased two weeks ago (actually, we got it for free) but it cost $38.00 if you know the right people.
Over the counter..its $65.00

that counter is probably in a building thats either rented or the shop owner is paying a mortgage on, it may have lights and heaters, the bank and the tax man and the gst man will have their hand in the owners pocket there will be insurance plus staff to pay for, there is probably a free coffee machine and some bike mags to read and a few bikes to sit on.............all this shit costs money if the shop sells stuff for what they pay for it they wont be around long

[scumdog]

Many years ago in a previous life I was a test rider (ha ha) for a Harley Davidson dealership.
One very quiet day we thought we would price a 1340 Dyna Glide in parts.

This bike cost just shy of 15,000 pounds as it sat on the shop floor.
Now this was back in the days of microfiche machines and took a while to work out and………..
The sum total for this bike in parts added up to 98,000 pounds!!!!!!

Don’t think the parts mark up thing is unique to NZ :(

On the same them: back in the day when a Hillman Avenger was about $3000 we did the same excercise and found the cost of building a diff for an Avenger from the parts list was $1,600.

No logic...

[bikaholic]

You guys need to buy Yamahas, at least their dealers aren't thieving cunts.

Parts I have bought are the same price in $NZ as in $US on the interweb, including freight and shipped from aust.

So yeah, the owners of lesser brands of motorcycle are being ripped off.


In a thread about ripoff markups, you suggest buying from RS. Seriously?With their catalogues you can pick the model you want rather than setting for one of the three the electrcal wholesalers have in stock.
Most 'not in trade' pay trade price at wholesalers so they are going to get ripped anyway, but way way cheaper than 6 hundy, and way way cheaper than trade for me.

[Maha]

that counter is probably in a building thats either rented or the shop owner is paying a mortgage on, it may have lights and heaters, the bank and the tax man and the gst man will have their hand in the owners pocket there will be insurance plus staff to pay for, there is probably a free coffee machine and some bike mags to read and a few bikes to sit on.............all this shit costs money if the shop sells stuff for what they pay for it they wont be around long

..and never the twain shall meet.

[nzspokes]

Because bike shops are gold mines. :facepalm:

Now if only they would open Sundays.:girlfight:

[spanner spinner]

Quick economics lesson, if you want to pay the same price for parts as the US have the same size market. Which means that we either make it compulsory for everyone in NZ to ride a motorbike or import 30 million odd people. (I vouch for the first option just got to get to be PM some how) And we also need to get the freight cost down as well, any one know how to move NZ closer to either Europe or the US as these are where the main distribution points are (on second thoughts as China makes most things these days might be better to snuggle in just next to Taiwan) As for the cost of the fan this would be a very slow moving part - most bikes would go from new to wreck with out ever needing a radiator fan, the cost to the manufacturer of having the item sitting on the shelf has to be factored in to the spares price as it costs the manufacturer to have this part sitting around. This is called capitalism which is still better than the option of communism where you save up for ten years then give the government your money and then wait for five years for delivery of your bike and then get the same model of bike as your neighbour bought 20 years earlier, then your spares would be cheap (if you can get them) as the government would set the cost. Having worked in the automotive industry, most dealers work on very tight margins and don't make very much out of supplying parts. Some times by the time you pay the staff and business costs the parts department is lucky to pay it's way but you have to have it to make the rest of the business work. If every one snubs the local guy you won't have a problem with the local guys prices as the NZ bike industry won't exist, look at the number of dealers who have gone in the last couple of years. This is not just related to motorcycles as Dick Smith has just informed that they are shutting 66 shops in the next few months, one of the reasons is the impact of internet sales.

[spanner spinner]

I have worked at a bike shop that was open seven days not much fun when you are at work when all your mates are out riding.

[Hitcher]

FOURTY DOLLARS.

Forty dollars, $40.

[bikaholic]

This is not just related to motorcycles as Dick Smith has just informed that they are shutting 66 shops in the next few months, one of the reasons is the impact of internet sales.Having been in aussie quite recently it is very understandable why a startup company like JB HiFI has stolen Dick Smiths market and then doubled it, but even that does not mean success.

And is not re-lifing a used part better for the environment, apart from a few carbon miles that where going to occur anyway?

[tri boy]

I've been saying it for about five years now.
Bike shops are destined to fail if they continue with an out of date retail business model.
They are the dinosaurs of the retail motor industry.
Gone are the days of fucking the customer over, and laughing about it out the back. (It does happen, even in the so called best shops).

The owner/mechanic/small shops will survive if their staff levels remain between one -three people.
ie sole traders just buying themselves an income.

The large shops will be around for a while, as they hold market share.

The losers are the mum n dad shops that grew to having about 8-10staff during the good times, and who can't adapt to a global retail market.

The importers are the slowest of the dinosaurs, dragging everyone down into the abiss with them.

There is a better way, but it will take the whole industry to agree to a better format.
Sadly, after spending a few decades watching how they bicker and argue over silly little things, then I think Woolworths or Bunnings should overun the entire system.

Just think, Harley Road King on special for this week only, free 5kgbag of potato's included.

[Trade_nancy]

The distributor sets the recommended retail price.

They would not look favourably on their dealers/retailers starting pricing wars.

Sounds like the m/cycle industry is due for a reality check and introduction to 21st century competiveness. Stipulated RRP prices are often very significantly inflated and bear no relationship to fair and reasonable profit margins. Distributors apply a big WHACK - to provide enough cuttable fat for the retailers to haggle better deals. The dealer who chooses to sell at the bloated RRP does so of their own choosing. In the PC industry we started with an RRP in the order of about 35-50% when I first became involved with the sales side back in 1992. Today - more like 10-15% on PC equipment..which has become a commodity product. Price wars did rage - and companies who engaged - such as PC General, PC-Direct,..ultimately went down. On a sale - I aim for 20% as my "good" markup. What would a Motorcycle retialer go for?
Also - to argue that a markup on a part is "fair" because it is only $15 is unreasonable. It is the margin that indicates the fairness. To be sure - there is a minimum cut you want to make from a sale - else it is not worthy of your time. So often businesses increase lower price items by a $$ amount rather than applying a percentage margin. Hence a 10 cent washer may be sold for $10..and I have no problem with that..as you get service, time and a solution in that price and it aint worth it for the 10 cent + 20% markup way. I needed 4 snap-on metal circlips that hold on HONDA emblems - on CB750 side covers...and traced them to a nuts/bolts distributor.....he said minimum sale price is $10 and gave me about 50 of them in a snaplock bag. No problems.
I bought a set of Triumph "Garrett" gloves from a certain Harley/Triumph shop - "Fire Sale" last week - had 50% off - so got them marked down from $129 ticket price to $64. Googled later and found them for sale in USA for US75RRP -marked down to US$50. So I guess the original markup was more than 100%.

[Woodman]

Maybe the importers/distributors need to just sell direct in NZ. Couple of warehouses in the main centres as their retail outlets and an online option as well. No bikes for sale, no workshop, just parts and accessories. Open 7 days.

This would be for aftermarket parts and accessories only, leaving the genuine parts to the dealers that sell and fix the bikes.

Its how the auto industry has been doing it for donkeys years.

[BoristheBiter]

Sounds like the m/cycle industry is due for a reality check and introduction to 21st century competiveness. Stipulated RRP prices are often very significantly inflated and bear no relationship to fair and reasonable profit margins. Distributors apply a big WHACK - to provide enough cuttable fat for the retailers to haggle better deals. The dealer who chooses to sell at the bloated RRP does so of their own choosing. In the PC industry we started with an RRP in the order of about 35-50% when I first became involved with the sales side back in 1992. Today - more like 10-15% on PC equipment..which has become a commodity product. Price wars did rage - and companies who engaged - such as PC General, PC-Direct,..ultimately went down. On a sale - I aim for 20% as my "good" markup. What would a Motorcycle retialer go for?
Also - to argue that a markup on a part is "fair" because it is only $15 is unreasonable. It is the margin that indicates the fairness. To be sure - there is a minimum cut you want to make from a sale - else it is not worthy of your time. So often businesses increase lower price items by a $$ amount rather than applying a percentage margin. Hence a 10 cent washer may be sold for $10..and I have no problem with that..as you get service, time and a solution in that price and it aint worth it for the 10 cent + 20% markup way. I needed 4 snap-on metal circlips that hold on HONDA emblems - on CB750 side covers...and traced them to a nuts/bolts distributor.....he said minimum sale price is $10 and gave me about 50 of them in a snaplock bag. No problems.
I bought a set of Triumph "Garrett" gloves from a certain Harley/Triumph shop - "Fire Sale" last week - had 50% off - so got them marked down from $129 ticket price to $64. Googled later and found them for sale in USA for US75RRP -marked down to US$50. So I guess the original markup was more than 100%.

So what you are after is no bike shops, we do it all on line or have just one big shop that sells everything, therefore no competition.

I hear what you are saying as our suppliers are now doing kits for everything.
But all i still hear is people wanting a top service and don't want to pay for it.
It has been like this for years and now these threads have become like waving threads.

I go to 3 different shops, not because they are cheapest but i get the best service, great advise and can stop in and just chew that fat any time, and the best one if I have a problem i can just take it back.

So you had never go into a shop ever again as someone might have put a mark up on it.

[Katman]

In the PC industry

Yes, in an industry that sells to 95% of the population your turn-over would certainly allow smaller margins.

When you're selling to only 2% of the population you don't have the same luxury.

[FJRider]

On the same them: back in the day when a Hillman Avenger was about $3000 we did the same excercise and found the cost of building a diff for an Avenger from the parts list was $1,600.

No logic...

A new diff DIDN'T get rid of the whine ... :facepalm:

[spanner spinner]

A new diff DIDN'T get rid of the whine ... :facepalm:

with avengers that wasn't a fault it was a feature.

[jasonu]

New, in NZ $600 is being asked
Used, in US $40us is being asked.

Wrong? Not really. Would be - if new price in US was $40 compared to $600 here...

If it is $40US 2nd hand then the new price is likely twice that ie $80USD. Still a shit load less than $600 Kiwi.

[jasonu]

The fan ex US will be to as much to ship as well.

A 12v dc axial fan ex jaycar or RS will do the job if you pick one close to the size, it is only shifting air (as fans do) when MC is stationary.

Cobblers. Flat rate international box $15USD
www.usps.com

[Flip]

Last year I cracked a head light on the Harley.

I went into the local dealer who asked if it was the crystal or paterned glass? I said it was the crystal. They went out back got it, I paid my $68 and it came with a new bulb.

I broke a half shaft on my trusty V8 Landrover.

I went to the local Landy parts supplier who said ummmm sorry, the half shaft for a V8 is a unique item only for the V8 ,its the most expensive axle they make, and I dont have one in stock........ I can get you one in tomorow thats $98 thanks...........

I dont know why you fuck around with jap vehicles, ok they are cheap but you are being ass fucked when you need a headlight for a GSXR1 thingy, and your bike is going to be off the road for 2 months, not for the freight but for the gready little wankers to revalue the Yen.

[Brian d marge]

do remember that 500 dollars is only about 30 000 yen , while not expensive, I’ve spent that on a night out .. ( and still didn’t get me leg over )

for 30 000 yen.

5 nights at a bar at 5k per night , ( pissed excl taxi )

4 trips to a luv hotel

a net book pc

a tyre for a CBR blackbird

a dinner and a few drinks at a reasonable restaurant

a shag and a blowjop from a Chinese hooker

The shinkansen from Tokyo to Kobe

all relative I suppose

Stephen

[jonbuoy]

Its not just the bike industry - a 2012 Ford Focus Titanium retails for $50000 NZD in New Zealand. In the states you can buy the same car for the list price equivalent of $28000 NZD, in the UK it would be about $34,000NZD and a bit less than that in Spain. I think NZ´ers do get ripped off.

[DMNTD]

I have ongoing issue with my dealer, he is great and will bend over backwards to help me. But he knows he can't match on prices....

Bluewing Honda want $450 (on sale from over $600) for a seat cowl for my Predator, I can get a brand new one landed from UK for just over $200-$250 with shipping, I brought a second hand one along with some pazzo levers (which came off a bike which had done maybe 1000k's) off another forum in UK shipped to here for $340 nz both in mint condition and less than the cost of a brand new seat cowl here...

...and that right there shows how much unnecessary flack motorcycle dealers cop.

Until someone actually works on the other side of the counter or knows someone within the industry, I don't think it's fair nor intelligent for people to assume that the actual dealer is making some huge profit simply because someone can import the same product from a whole different market for a fraction of the price. It's a different county with different suppliers and a vastly different volume of turn over.
I still can't understand why people can't accept that the above factors are hugely influential but hey...whatever.

Despite what people might think, distributors do set the RRP's. From the cost of the motorcycles through to the gloves...the lot.
Even if a dealer sells a pair of gloves at full RRP there still isn't a large profit.
If it was a high turn over market then the prices could drop.

[Katman]

If it is $40US 2nd hand then the new price is likely twice that ie $80USD. Still a shit load less than $600 Kiwi.

Well that shows how little you know.

Just checked on the American parts ordering sites and the price for a radiator fan for a 2009 Ninja 650R is just over $400US with most of the sites showing a discounted price down at just over $300US.


Cobblers. Flat rate international box $15USD
www.usps.com

It depends entirely on who is sending the part. Some companies charge ridiculous freight prices. It also depends on which side of the States a parcel is coming from.

[BMWST?]

...and that right there shows how much unnecessary flack motorcycle dealers cop.

Until someone actually works on the other side of the counter or knows someone within the industry, I don't think it's fair nor intelligent for people to assume that the actual dealer is making some huge profit simply because someone can import the same product from a whole different market for a fraction of the price. It's a different county with different suppliers and a vastly different volume of turn over.
I still can't understand why people can't accept that the above factors are hugely influential but hey...whatever.

Despite what people might think, distributors do set the RRP's. From the cost of the motorcycles through to the gloves...the lot.
Even if a dealer sells a pair of gloves at full RRP there still isn't a large profit.
If it was a high turn over market then the prices could drop.

and as been pointed out many many times....running a retail shop in high street in Hometown is very different than a warehouse in Arizona.Still we make our choices.The end game is in sight and the outcome is obvious.There will be a few large dealers in the whole country.Get used to buying your bike on line but i dont know how you will get it serviced

[DMNTD]

and as been pointed out many many times....running a retail shop in high street in Hometown is very different than a warehouse in Arizona.Still we make our choices.The end game is in sight and the outcome is obvious.There will be a few large dealers in the whole country.Get used to buying your bike on line but i dont know how you will get it serviced

...which is partially why I choose to no longer work in the motorcycle industry.

The shear frustration with customers attempting to call me/us rips offs when they could buy a certain MX clothing range cheaper on a NZ website than what we as stockists could get it in for is nothing short of concerning (as a motorcycle dealership).

BTW...agreed that the way of the future will probably involve multi franchise dealerships however certain importers will have to change their attitudes in order for that to even get off the ground.

[bikaholic]

Cobblers. Flat rate international box $15USD
www.usps.comCrap, the biggest box at flat rate international is 9" 1/4 X 6 1/4" X 2" at US16.95
"If the fan can fit it this that fine (mine wouldn't), that next size flat rate international box is 11 X 8 1/2" X 5 1/2" at US$47.95 so cobblers, but don't let the facts get in the way.
https://www.usps.com/send/priority-mail-international-flat.htm

[scott411]

Crap, the biggest box at flat rate international is 9" 1/4 X 6 1/4" X 2" at US16.95
"If the fan can fit it this that fine (mine wouldn't), that next size flat rate international box is 11 X 8 1/2" X 5 1/2" at US$47.95 so cobblers, but don't let the facts get in the way.
https://www.usps.com/send/priority-mail-international-flat.htm

facts in a the motorcycle industry is the devil thread, why start now?

[BMWST?]

...which is partially why I choose to no longer work in the motorcycle industry.

The shear frustration with customers attempting to call me/us rips offs when they could buy a certain MX clothing range cheaper on a NZ website than what we as stockists could get it in for is nothing short of concerning (as a motorcycle dealership).

BTW...agreed that the way of the future will probably involve multi franchise dealerships however certain importers will have to change their attitudes in order for that to even get off the ground.

they will either like it or lump it,motomart in lower hutt and tss in lower hut show us the way(and of course WMC)

[onearmedbandit]

Unfortunately the business model does need to change, or more dealers will fall. And then the distributors will fall.

The facts are, as an example, that I could import from a retailer in America a part and have it landed here for under $300. Honda wanted $630 for the same part. To stop this happening, either NZ'ers need to be stopped from purchasing from overseas (!) or the distributors/manufacturers need to change their methods. It's their choice, either campaign the government to prohibit private imports or adapt to a changing market. Or there is a 3rd option, and that is to fold.

It's not a nice situation for them I'm sure, but it's the reality. Burying their heads in the sand and hoping the internet is just a fad isn't working.

[BMWST?]

Unfortunately the business model does need to change, or more dealers will fall. And then the distributors will fall.

The facts are, as an example, that I could import from a retailer in America a part and have it landed here for under $300. Honda wanted $630 for the same part. To stop this happening, either NZ'ers need to be stopped from purchasing from overseas (!) or the distributors/manufacturers need to change their methods. It's their choice, either campaign the government to prohibit private imports or adapt to a changing market. Or there is a 3rd option, and that is to fold.

It's not a nice situation for them I'm sure, but it's the reality. Burying their heads in the sand and hoping the internet is just a fad isn't working.

what will happen will happen,and i am sure the outcome will not be to anyones total benefit...the same is happening across the whole retail market,clothes shoes books movies music etc .There will be tears before bedtime.

[jasonu]

Well that shows how little you know.

Just checked on the American parts ordering sites and the price for a radiator fan for a 2009 Ninja 650R is just over $400US with most of the sites showing a discounted price down at just over $300US.

If it is the same part the OP talked about I doubt the used part price was in fact $40 or it was a different or damaged part. Used parts prices from wreckers (in the states) is generally around half the new price of the same part.

It depends entirely on who is sending the part. Some companies charge ridiculous freight prices. It also depends on which side of the States a parcel is coming from.

Well that shows how little you know.
A flat rate box is just that, flat rate from anywhere in the states to almost anywhere in the rest of the world.

[Woodman]

[QUOTE=Katman;1130250829]Well that shows how little you know.

Just checked on the American parts ordering sites and the price for a radiator fan for a 2009 Ninja 650R is just over $400US with most of the sites showing a discounted price down at just over $300US.[QUOTE]

Thankyou Katman. It was a pointless argument anyway when comparing new with secondhand, but cheers for being bothered to check.

[Bassmatt]

[QUOTE=Katman;1130250829]Well that shows how little you know.

Just checked on the American parts ordering sites and the price for a radiator fan for a 2009 Ninja 650R is just over $400US with most of the sites showing a discounted price down at just over $300US.[QUOTE]

Thankyou Katman. It was a pointless argument anyway when comparing new with secondhand, but cheers for being bothered to check.

I wasnt comparing new with second hand i was pointing out that $600 for an electric motor is absolutely ridiculous. US $300 to NZ600+ still equates to around NZ$200 profit just for ordering it. I spent all of 5 minutes on ebay to find and order a second hand one.
$2400 an hour to a distributor for making an order is pretty cheap though eh?


Second hand prices range from us$15 to$100 dollars most are around $40-50.
the fact that second hand prices are only around 10% of the new price suggests that the market agrees with me.

[BMWST?]

[QUOTE=Woodman;1130250968][QUOTE=Katman;1130250829]Well that shows how little you know.

Just checked on the American parts ordering sites and the price for a radiator fan for a 2009 Ninja 650R is just over $400US with most of the sites showing a discounted price down at just over $300US.

I wasnt comparing new with second hand i was pointing out that $600 for an electric motor is absolutely ridiculous. US $300 to NZ600+ still equates to around NZ$200 profit just for ordering it. I spent all of 5 minutes on ebay to find and order a second hand one.
$2400 an hour to a distributor for making an order is pretty cheap though eh?


Second hand prices range from us$15 to$100 dollars most are around $40-50.
the fact that second hand prices are only around 10% of the new price suggests that the market agrees with me.

who makes the supposed 200 dollar profit then?

[Katman]

Well that shows how little you know.
A flat rate box is just that, flat rate from anywhere in the states to almost anywhere in the rest of the world.

Listen up shit-for-brains, it depends entirely on who the crowd sending the package chooses to use. Generally speaking, when ordering from a company in the State you don't have the ability to choose the carrier or service that you want that company to use.

[onearmedbandit]

Well that shows how little you know.
A flat rate box is just that, flat rate from anywhere in the states to almost anywhere in the rest of the world.

Really? Because I've looked at the same item from different retailers and there can be a variance in shipping. Or do I also know very little?

[Trade_nancy]

So what you are after is no bike shops, we do it all on line or have just one big shop that sells everything, therefore no competition.

Not what I thought about....But sounds like there is no competition anyhoo. They all set price at RRP and avoid price war - insn't that what KATMAN said? We need retailers to sell us bikes, parts..of course. BUT - why should the margin be so outrageous? Why should (for example) Triumph NZ distribute items at 50% or above what RETAILERS in UK and USA pay? Why should retailers always put RRP 50 to 100% markup sales tickets on non-effort sales items like gloves and boots?

[Katman]

Why should retailers always put RRP 50 to 100% markup sales tickets on non-effort sales items like gloves and boots?

If you think retailers mark-up is between 50 to 100% than you're more deluded than I imagined.

[BMWST?]

So what you are after is no bike shops, we do it all on line or have just one big shop that sells everything, therefore no competition.

Not what I thought about....But sounds like there is no competition anyhoo. They all set price at RRP and avoid price war - insn't that what KATMAN said? We need retailers to sell us bikes, parts..of course. BUT - why should the margin be so outrageous? Why should (for example) Triumph NZ distribute items at 50% or above what RETAILERS in UK and USA pay? Why should retailers always put RRP 50 to 100% markup sales tickets on non-effort sales items like gloves and boots?

the retailers NEED a margin so that the shop can stay open,the dealers BUY their goods from distributors who buy the same goods form manufacturers or other wholesalers...You will find that the retailer has no real option where they buy the goods,otherwise the NZ distributor or the manufacturer will not supply them .Ref the adidas rugby jersey affair

[Trade_nancy]

Very creative use of stats KATMAN..95% buy PCs..so about 3mill PCs get sold each year? Snigger..I wish..
How often does the average PC owner spend say $500 on their PC..vs how often do they drop that coin of their bike?<_<

[DMNTD]

Very creative use of stats KATMAN...
As with you too. Do you honestly believe that the Dealers have laid that much margin on the products they sell?
I'm intrigued to know which dealers and on what products

[Kickaha]

why should the margin be so outrageous? Why should (for example) Triumph NZ distribute items at 50% or above what RETAILERS in UK and USA pay?

Yeah because obviously all distributors get the same deal from the manufacturers regardless of the volume they sell:facepalm:

[jasonu]

Listen up shit-for-brains, it depends entirely on who the crowd sending the package chooses to use. Generally speaking, when ordering from a company in the State you don't have the ability to choose the carrier or service that you want that company to use.

Do you kiss your mother with that potty mouth?


Really? Because I've looked at the same item from different retailers and there can be a variance in shipping. Or do I also know very little?

If you had bothered to read back a little you may have noticed that I was talking about USPS FLAT RATE boxes.
Extra 'handeling' fees are up to the shipper.

[DMNTD]

I was talking about USPS FLAT RATE boxes.
Various 'handling' fees are up to the shipper.
The problem being is that if you order via the internet it is the vendor's choice of who they choose to deal with....and for the most part the shipping prices are obscene

[Tony.OK]

the retailers NEED a margin so that the shop can stay open,the dealers BUY their goods from distributors who buy the same goods form manufacturers or other wholesalers...You will find that the retailer has no real option where they buy the goods,otherwise the NZ distributor or the manufacturer will not supply them .Ref the adidas rugby jersey affair

Agreed............anyone that knows someone that runs a bike shop knows margins are tight, NZ's major prob is low turn over and small population. For some reason that (it seems) means distributors think they have to charge silly money for OEM parts.
Bluewing seems hell bent on screwing their franchisee's with crazy high RRP's. They "expect" dealers to buy certain #'s of bikes, then they can fuck any profit up for dealer by insisting on a "summer sale". Trouble is the dealer has paid for bike say 2 months ago, instant profit loss by order of distributor!!

When I was sponsored by my local Honda shop, I wanted some OEM front pads for the 1000rr, "we don't usually sell those as they're too expensive for most ppl". Bluewing had none in stock...........sheesh! From the top of my head the OEM pads were RRP of $200ish per pair = $400, I got parts at cost so that was around $140ish per pair = $280, still too much for poor racer and don't like aftermarket pads so when hunting....................end result was buying offshore from a popular US shop, $35US per side = $70US plus $30 shipping. At the time they were about $120NZD delivered........GO FIGURE???

Now what I'd like someone to tell me is.............Bluewing buy direct from Honda, US retailer prob buys from US wholesaler, does that mean either Bluewing either have a really bad deal with Japan or are they unrealistic in thinking NZer's will pay because they believe no one knows how to use the internet these days?

Thats all from my personal experience with dealings from my local shop...................I could be all wrong?

[CHOPPA]

Agreed............anyone that knows someone that runs a bike shop knows margins are tight, NZ's major prob is low turn over and small population. For some reason that (it seems) means distributors think they have to charge silly money for OEM parts.
Bluewing seems hell bent on screwing their franchisee's with crazy high RRP's. They "expect" dealers to buy certain #'s of bikes, then they can fuck any profit up for dealer by insisting on a "summer sale". Trouble is the dealer has paid for bike say 2 months ago, instant profit loss by order of distributor!!

When I was sponsored by my local Honda shop, I wanted some OEM front pads for the 1000rr, "we don't usually sell those as they're too expensive for most ppl". Bluewing had none in stock...........sheesh! From the top of my head the OEM pads were RRP of $200ish per pair = $400, I got parts at cost so that was around $140ish per pair = $280, still too much for poor racer and don't like aftermarket pads so when hunting....................end result was buying offshore from a popular US shop, $35US per side = $70US plus $30 shipping. At the time they were about $120NZD delivered........GO FIGURE???

Now what I'd like someone to tell me is.............Bluewing buy direct from Honda, US retailer prob buys from US wholesaler, does that mean either Bluewing either have a really bad deal with Japan or are they unrealistic in thinking NZer's will pay because they believe no one knows how to use the internet these days?

Thats all from my personal experience with dealings from my local shop...................I could be all wrong?

Try buying Yoshi pads!

[Bassmatt]

[QUOTE=Bassmatt;1130250973][QUOTE=Woodman;1130250968]

who makes the supposed 200 dollar profit then?

Why supposed? There is an approx $200 dollars diff (bear with me , im not gonna calculate everything out to the last cent). Does it just dissapear into the ether?

Just to clarify, the price quoted was more than $600, I forget the exact actual price as I was flabbergasted by the $600 part of the price. As I had no intention of paying that I did not establish if it was inclusive of GST

[Tony.OK]

Try buying Yoshi pads!

Thats why I couldn't keep up with ya mate, chose the wrong brand hahaa.................well that and I got scared :innocent:

Need some lessons on how to ride this XR4hundy now, dirts even scarier than the track lmao. Parts are cheap though, well aftermarket ones anyhoo!

[Woodman]

[QUOTE=BMWST?;1130250976][QUOTE=Bassmatt;1130250973]

Why supposed? There is an approx $200 dollars diff (bear with me , im not gonna calculate everything out to the last cent). Does it just dissapear into the ether?

Just to clarify, the price quoted was more than $600, I forget the exact actual price as I was flabbergasted by the $600 part of the price. As I had no intention of paying that I did not establish if it was inclusive of GST

Hey, I didn't post that.

Anyway, whats wrong with profit? A dealer making a supposed $200 profit is the same as you saving $200.

[BMWST?]

[QUOTE=BMWST?;1130250976][QUOTE=Bassmatt;1130250973]

Why supposed? There is an approx $200 dollars diff (bear with me , im not gonna calculate everything out to the last cent). Does it just dissapear into the ether?

Just to clarify, the price quoted was more than $600, I forget the exact actual price as I was flabbergasted by the $600 part of the price. As I had no intention of paying that I did not establish if it was inclusive of GST

you say someone made approx 200 profit.I accept your figures but i ask you who you believe has made the 200 profit

[Bassmatt]

[QUOTE=Bassmatt;1130251021][QUOTE=BMWST?;1130250976]

Hey, I didn't post that.

Anyway, whats wrong with profit? A dealer making a supposed $200 profit is the same as you saving $200.

Youre correct you didnt post it. Sorry. I dont know how that happened.

Looks like it has done it again, it has attrbuted your post to BMWST!
It s not me, honest, I dont know how or why its happening.

[onearmedbandit]

If you had bothered to read back a little you may have noticed that I was talking about USPS FLAT RATE boxes.
Extra 'handeling' fees are up to the shipper.

That's cool, I'd expect USPS to have standardised rates. The point was, and still is, that shipping costs do vary, whether because of extra handling costs, or even extra handeling costs.

[BMWST?]

Agreed............anyone that knows someone that runs a bike shop knows margins are tight, NZ's major prob is low turn over and small population. For some reason that (it seems) means distributors think they have to charge silly money for OEM parts.
Bluewing seems hell bent on screwing their franchisee's with crazy high RRP's. They "expect" dealers to buy certain #'s of bikes, then they can fuck any profit up for dealer by insisting on a "summer sale". Trouble is the dealer has paid for bike say 2 months ago, instant profit loss by order of distributor!!

When I was sponsored by my local Honda shop, I wanted some OEM front pads for the 1000rr, "we don't usually sell those as they're too expensive for most ppl". Bluewing had none in stock...........sheesh! From the top of my head the OEM pads were RRP of $200ish per pair = $400, I got parts at cost so that was around $140ish per pair = $280, still too much for poor racer and don't like aftermarket pads so when hunting....................end result was buying offshore from a popular US shop, $35US per side = $70US plus $30 shipping. At the time they were about $120NZD delivered........GO FIGURE???

Now what I'd like someone to tell me is.............Bluewing buy direct from Honda, US retailer prob buys from US wholesaler, does that mean either Bluewing either have a really bad deal with Japan or are they unrealistic in thinking NZer's will pay because they believe no one knows how to use the internet these days?

Thats all from my personal experience with dealings from my local shop...................I could be all wrong?

as you say low turn over.Maybe blue wing themselves get a shit discount of Honda cos they only buy two sets of cbr1000 brake pads at a time

[Bassmatt]

[QUOTE=Bassmatt;1130251021][QUOTE=BMWST?;1130250976]

you say someone made approx 200 profit.I accept your figures but i ask you who you believe has made the 200 profit

I would imagine it is shared in some way between the distributor and dealer.

[Bassmatt]

That's cool, I'd expect USPS to have standardised rates. The point was, and still is, that shipping costs do vary, whether because of extra handling costs, or even extra handeling costs.

Im paying US$22 for freight

UPS is also a rip imho

[Woodman]

You may be getting margin and profit confused.

$600 less $400 = $200 margin.

$600 less $400 Less freight, tax, wages,power,interest etc etc = $40ish profit.

It would take some seriously big kahoonas to buy enough stock offshore to make NZ competitive.

[Bassmatt]

You may be getting margin and profit confused.

$600 less $400 = $200 margin.

$600 less $400 Less freight, tax, wages,power,interest etc etc = $40ish profit.

It would take some seriously big kahoonas to buy enough stock offshore to make NZ competitive.

They are fixed costs (except freight) which they are paying regardless of my purchase or not. If the margin was more reasonable then they may have had some profit with which to offset these costs, now they have none.

[nzspokes]

Yes I know there is a thread on here about this but I cant seem to find it so....
After my trip through the Forgotten Highway
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146255-Forgotten-Highway-Warning

I found that stones and tar had got up into my radiator fan preventing it from turning and caused the motor to burn out. So I made a call to my friendly Kawasaki dealer to order a new one.....

$600!!!
" I only want the fan" I told him "not the radiator as well". "Yes sir one radiator fan without the radiator is $600". :shit:

So thats yet another purchase that will be going offshore.
US$40 on Ebay, second hand.

Why didnt you just fix the motor?

[Bassmatt]

You may be getting margin and profit confused.

$600 less $400 = $200 margin.

$600 less $400 Less freight, tax, wages,power,interest etc etc = $40ish profit.

It would take some seriously big kahoonas to buy enough stock offshore to make NZ competitive.

Also if you worked out the cost of the above as it relates to the one part I wanted then you it would be more like, 50c for power, $2 wages , tax will be passed on to me,interest = $195 ish

[Woodman]

They are fixed costs (except freight) which they are paying regardless of my purchase or not. If the margin was more reasonable then they may have had some profit with which to offset these costs, now they have none.

Fair call but not sustainable in the long term unless there are huge volume sales. Not in NZ. Not in this niche.

[Bassmatt]

Why didnt you just fix the motor?

Im not an electrician or mecahnic and nobody suggested that as an option so didnt really think of that. When I told the guy at the dealership I wasnt paying $600 the only help he offered was for me to look on trademe.

[Bassmatt]

Fair call but not sustainable in the long term unless there are huge volume sales. Not in NZ. Not in this niche.

Yep you're right and I hope that there is some solution because I cant see them surviving under the current conditions (low turnover+ridiculous pricing) and in the long run thats bad news for all of us.

[nzspokes]

Im not an electrician or mecahnic and nobody suggested that as an option so didnt really think of that. When I told the guy at the dealership I wasnt paying $600 the only help he offered was for me to look on trademe.

I would doubt it would be a major fix.

[Bassmatt]

I would doubt it would be a major fix.

Ok Thanks for that i'll look into it. :niceone:

[bikaholic]

I would doubt it would be a major fix.if the motor was stalled by a stone it would have overheated and the winding insulation would have melted shorting the motor winding out, else the heat would have open circuited it somewhere, most likely not at the connections.

[Woodman]

Surprised the gummint haven't got onto this.

Huge tarriffs on privately imported motorcycle parts forcing us to purchase from the local dealers therefore putting the cost of motorcycling in NZ further from our reach.:laugh:

[BMWST?]

They are fixed costs (except freight) which they are paying regardless of my purchase or not. If the margin was more reasonable then they may have had some profit with which to offset these costs, now they have none.

fixed costs or not they have to be paid for....and the share that you pay on the so called profit margin covers a small percentage of the total costs of the whole shop....not just the 30 seconds someone served you for...The sales budget was set previuosly and figures juggled accordingly

[bikaholic]

Surprised the gummint haven't got onto this.

Huge tarriffs on privately imported motorcycle parts forcing us to purchase from the local dealers therefore putting the cost of motorcycling in NZ further from our reach.:laugh:tarriffs were removed years ago from imported goods, that's why we have free trade agreements. it stimulates the economy, creates competition, drives prices down, allows for new entrants, and closes down inefficient markets.

[onearmedbandit]

fixed costs or not they have to be paid for....and the share that you pay on the so called profit margin covers a small percentage of the total costs of the whole shop....not just the 30 seconds someone served you for...The sales budget was set previuosly and figures juggled accordingly

It's not the retailers I'm complaining about, it's the business model the distributors/manufacturers are using.

[jasonu]

That's cool, I'd expect USPS to have standardised rates. The point was, and still is, that shipping costs do vary, whether because of extra handling costs, or even extra handeling costs.

Agreed.


The problem being is that if you order via the internet it is the vendor's choice of who they choose to deal with....and for the most part the shipping prices are obscene

That has not been the case in my experience. I have shipped a lot of stuff from the states to NZ using both USPS and vendors shipping and have yet to be baddly robbed.


Im paying US$22 for freight

UPS is also a rip imho

Never, never, NEVER use UPS for anything. Slow and expensive.

[Mungatoke Mad]

Agreed.



That has not been the case in my experience. I have shipped a lot of stuff from the states to NZ using both USPS and vendors shipping and have yet to be baddly robbed.



Never, never, NEVER use UPS for anything. Slow and expensive.I ordered a 100w Stator from Trail Tech got stung 99$ US for shipping alone & it took over 10days to get here WTF I was expecting it to be Teleport'ed here for that price :angry:

[Woodman]

I ordered a 100w Stator from Trail Tech got stung 99$ US for shipping alone & it took over 10days to get here WTF I was expecting it to be Teleport'ed here for that price :angry:

Trailtech charge crazy freight, and my conspiracy theory is so you then purchase it from a local distributor. Sort of a backdoor way of respecting territories.


I got quoted $110 freight for a vapor, making it cheaper to buy locally.

[spanner spinner]

Blue wing Honda are a private NZ company so don't get the same deal as the rest of the world. Nearly all other importers are owned by Honda Japan so they can subsidise the cost of bikes and spares from there manufacturer margin. This is because our market is to small for Japan to be interested in. Most of the other distributors in NZ are in the same boat. Only Suzuki is owned by the parent company, Yamaha is run out of Australia so Yamaha owners get the benefit of being part of a larger market. If we want better prices maybe we should become the new eastern state of Australia. As I said earier more people riding bikes more parts and accesories bought better prices, thats how all the multinational companies work.

[spanner spinner]

Now what I'd like someone to tell me is.............Bluewing buy direct from Honda, US retailer prob buys from US wholesaler, does that mean either Bluewing either have a really bad deal with Japan or are they unrealistic in thinking NZer's will pay because they believe no one knows how to use the internet these days?

[[/SIZE]

Yep Blue Wing get a bum deal see my earier post to why.

[spanner spinner]

It's not the retailers I'm complaining about, it's the business model the distributors/manufacturers are using.

so what's the model they should be using, if you have the solution there are a whole lot of distributors/manufacturers waiting for your pearls of wisdom as most of them are still suffering at present

[Woodman]

Why don't the Honda dealers get together and start using the australia distributor like Yamaha do and leverage off the increased buying power.

Seems to me that Bluewing have too much influence.

[DMNTD]

so what's the model they should be using, if you have the solution there are a whole lot of distributors/manufacturers waiting for your pearls of wisdom as most of them are still suffering at present

...as are the bike shops, big time.

IMO it won't be too long before dealers are mainly there for bike sales and service/warranty work only with maybe the odd part and accessory sale.

[spanner spinner]

Why don't the Honda dealers get together and start using the australia distributor like Yamaha do and leverage off the increased buying power.

Seems to me that Bluewing have too much influence.

NZ Yamaha dealers didn't start buying out of Australia by choice they are run out of Australia, the NZ distributor pulled the pin. And yes Honda dealers could by from any market in the world they wanted to BUT they can't get a certificate of compliance from Honda Japan and if you don't have that the LTNZ won't registered your new road bike in NZ. Only blue wing as the official importer can supply this document and only for the bikes they import and it is refrenced to vin number. So off road and quads would be fine as they don't need this but road bikes would be a problem. This is the same for all bikes and cars bought into NZ.

[scott411]

also goes further than that, the warranty is not valid world wide, so the dealer would have to cover the warranty, time frame to get bikes would be an issue, and the fact that honda nz would stop suppling them parts so that time frame would go from,

the distributors are the biggest holders of parts in the country, allowing most dealers overnight delivery to keep customers happy, the only way to get rid of them is for the dealers to stock more, but with the wide variety of bikes in NZ it would be very hard to do,

[Woodman]

NZ Yamaha dealers didn't start buying out of Australia by choice they are run out of Australia, the NZ distributor pulled the pin. And yes Honda dealers could by from any market in the world they wanted to BUT they can't get a certificate of compliance from Honda Japan and if you don't have that the LTNZ won't registered your new road bike in NZ. Only blue wing as the official importer can supply this document and only for the bikes they import and it is refrenced to vin number. So off road and quads would be fine as they don't need this but road bikes would be a problem. This is the same for all bikes and cars bought into NZ.

Yea, thats cool but I was talking about parts and accessories.

[Flip]

NZ Yamaha dealers didn't start buying out of Australia by choice they are run out of Australia, the NZ distributor pulled the pin. And yes Honda dealers could by from any market in the world they wanted to BUT they can't get a certificate of compliance from Honda Japan and if you don't have that the LTNZ won't registered your new road bike in NZ. Only blue wing as the official importer can supply this document and only for the bikes they import and it is refrenced to vin number. So off road and quads would be fine as they don't need this but road bikes would be a problem. This is the same for all bikes and cars bought into NZ.

Technically that is illegal and I am sure commerce will be interested to hear that Honda is using it's position in the market to prevent competition.

Meanwhile Honda riders order their parts on ebay and Honda NZ wonder why nobody will pay $2000 for a headlight.

[onearmedbandit]

so what's the model they should be using, if you have the solution there are a whole lot of distributors/manufacturers waiting for your pearls of wisdom as most of them are still suffering at present

Drop the attitude, I never said I had the solution. You don't have to actually possess one to identify a problem. People are not going to stop buying from overseas while the savings are there to be had. Retailers are telling us they don't have big margins in their stock. So they are getting charged too much, and next in the chain is the distributors. Are they charging too much? Or are they being charged too much? Is the cost of holding stock here just too high?

If the manufacturers want to have their brands in a specific country, they need to support those brands. As it's now a global market place we live in we have access to markets with the same products at a much cheaper price. If this continues more retailers will continue to close, meaning the manufacturers will ultimately have less brand coverage. Maybe NZ is such a small market they really don't care if they close up shop. Or, and only if it is possible, the situation is worked to a point where we can buy products at a price more reflective of what we can pay from retailers overseas, including shipping and taxes. Not the same price mind, I'm happy to pay a bit more for instant gratification, but not up to 3x the price. (Bear in mind, in that particular example Honda still had to order the part from Japan...)

That's as close to a solution as I have. I'm not trying to screw anyone over, I want the motorcycle industry here to flourish, and I want those that work hard in it to make a good dollar. Fuck in essence I'm trying to help the industry (not that whatever I say carries any weight, nor would anyone listen, I'm just a casual observer and sometime participant), the last thing I would want is to see more shops shut up.

[onearmedbandit]

Technically that is illegal and I am sure commerce will be interested to hear that Honda is using it's position in the market to prevent competition.

Meanwhile Honda riders order their parts on ebay and Honda NZ wonder why nobody will pay $2000 for a headlight.

Yes I remember a case awhile back where CCS wouldn't release a certificate of compliance to a privately imported Ferrari (I think). I'm sure their hand got forced. Think it was used though, new models are probably protected.

[Flip]

Karma is a bitch.

[spanner spinner]

If the manufacturers want to have their brands in a specific country, they need to support those brands. As it's now a global market place we live in we have access to markets with the same products at a much cheaper price. If this continues more retailers will continue to close, meaning the manufacturers will ultimately have less brand coverage. Maybe NZ is such a small market they really don't care if they close up shop. Or, and only if it is possible, the situation is worked to a point where we can buy products at a price more reflective of what we can pay from retailers overseas, including shipping and taxes. .

In my experience most manufactures don't give a shit all they want is there pile of money to get bigger and that is not just related to the motorcycle market, and yes our market is so small that most manufactures don't care if we exsist on not.They just want the importers to place larger and larger orders wether they have a market that can consume the volume of stock or not, not the manufactures problem after they get payed. The only way we will get the same prices is to have a larger market to repeat myself again. The easiest solution to this is to align NZ with Australia which I think will happen some time in the future. Look at the big discount chains for high valve items i.e. JB high fi they treat nz as just another state of Australia. Just have to get the NZ importers to bury the hatchet and work with the people over the ditch as it would be better for everyone we get better prices Australia gets more buying power so that drives down prices even more.

[spanner spinner]

[QUOTE=Flip;1130251406]Technically that is illegal and I am sure commerce will be interested to hear that Honda is using it's position in the market to prevent competition.

QUOTE]
Blame LTNZ they have set up this rules it's the same for all importers. Any one can import, you could bring in new bikes tomorrow in competition all the big brands but the cost of complying puts it out of reach of the average dealer plus any warranty issues are another problem that would have to be carried by the importing dealer, and then there is parts back up I could go on and on.

[Jantar]

...
If the manufacturers want to have their brands in a specific country, they need to support those brands. As it's now a global market place we live in we have access to markets with the same products at a much cheaper price. .....

With the current exchange rates, next time I want to upgrade my bike I will seriously consider travelling overseas to buy one. Ride it around for a while then import into New Zealand. Even with airfares, GST and freight I figure I'll be looking at ony 75% of the New Zealand cost.

[scott411]

[QUOTE=Flip;1130251406]Technically that is illegal and I am sure commerce will be interested to hear that Honda is using it's position in the market to prevent competition.

QUOTE]
Blame LTNZ they have set up this rules it's the same for all importers. Any one can import, you could bring in new bikes tomorrow in competition all the big brands but the cost of complying puts it out of reach of the average dealer plus any warranty issues are another problem that would have to be carried by the importing dealer, and then there is parts back up I could go on and on.

yamaha is run like that now, business is different over here and you have seen a number of yamaha dealers go to the wall, some go under, some choose to close, its not really a solution, as the aussie market has the same problems with cheap US imports, in fact it is worse as the non gst payable is $1000 not $400 as it is here

[Trade_nancy]

I believe that dealers are hurting - as indicated by some members who I gather are involved in the business. My feelings of discontent and grumbling are as indicacted by some others - better directed at distributors. Agreed. Today I had to order a plastic 145mm long piece of 10mm plastic hose - an IACV hose to connect between throttle body and IAC. Had a crack in the boot/connector. Cost on "World of Triumph" UK dealer website is about 12pounds...or say $24. Cost from Triumph NZ = $65. If I ordered the bit myself - they charge another $30 shipping - minimum fee - makes it $54 - still $11 cheaper than from Triumph NZ to dealer. I ordered from the dealer as they had done spade work and made phone calls - so would have been a pisser for them for me to deal online. Why is a NZ subsidiary - or whatever Triumph NZ may be - unable to secure parts at prices a DEALER in the UK can buy and sell for - at RRP!!!!

[DMNTD]

.... Why is a NZ subsidiary - or whatever Triumph NZ may be - unable to secure parts at prices a DEALER in the UK can buy and sell for - at RRP!!!!

As mentioned a number of times....turn over (smaller market in NZ),shipping plus a number of other factors.
I know how frustrating it is from both sides of the counter.

[Coldrider]

Yes I know there is a thread on here about this but I cant seem to find it so....
After my trip through the Forgotten Highway
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146255-Forgotten-Highway-Warning

I found that stones and tar had got up into my radiator fan preventing it from turning and caused the motor to burn out.must be a quaka thing, my 9er did the same, tar had melted the stone chip to the fan shroud, stalling the fan. I only noticed the noise while it was idling on the drive, but I don't commute so fan was probably saves from not coming on very often. Amazing how a chip can get behind the radiator.

[Bassmatt]

Slight dredge here...

So my US$15 (+postage, NZ$50 all up) has arrived and been installed and works perfectly.
Now... what to spend the $550 i saved on....:msn-wink:

[Robert Taylor]

No, it's not Mark.

That $38 (cost price) part that you got free would no doubt cost the dealer $38 plus GST plus freight.

That would take the true cost price to the dealer nearer to $50.

A $15 mark-up is hardly exorbitant.

YOU KNOW, i RECKON ALL OF THE PROFFESSIONAL WHINGERS THAT INHABIT THIS SITE SHOULD START THEIR OWN BIKE SHOPS. WE COULD THEN SIT BACK AND SEE HOW LONG THEY WOULD LAST

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's a little like comparing lounge bar pricing and service with that of the bottle store.

When we are flush with cash we can aford to piss some away in the lounge bar. But for most it has been a few years since the days when that was viable.

Frankly I am just as happy having a few beers in the garage.

Like others have said. The world is a changing place and it's time that dealers and distributors got their shit together and looked at ways of offering a more cost effective and better quality service to their customers instead of sneering at them because they can't afford or wont pay above the odds for (in most cases) average and often surley service.

If traders in the US can deliver product from Japan via the US to NZ for between 25 to 50% of local dealer/distributor prices (and make a profit) then NZ distributors need to re-evaluate their business models and their buying rates from their suppliers and make a decission as to whether they are going to compete or impotently and pointlessly whine about a lack of loyalty from people to whom they have shown little if any interest in (other than to tap into their money).

If a dealer is ordering a product in from their supplier rather than buying parts for stock, then they should be happy to run with a 10 to 20% margin as often times they are paid for the order before they have to pay their supplier. Money for jam. They could even look at buying from overseas dealers themselves. Likely they could organise a bit of additional volume based discount to further reduce their costs.

Their high handed take it or leave it attitude when asked about the possibility of a cheaper price doesn't help the either.

Of course all of that requires them to get off their arses and make changes (incl to their attitudes) that their customers would benefit from. And as customer service in NZ is (generally speaking) only a verbal concept, it ain't likely to be seen as any incentive.

[Robert Taylor]

It's a little like comparing lounge bar pricing and service with that of the bottle store.

When we are flush with cash we can aford to piss some away in the lounge bar. But for most it has been a few years since the days when that was viable.

Frankly I am just as happy having a few beers in the garage.

Like others have said. The world is a changing place and it's time that dealers and distributors got their shit together and looked at ways of offering a more cost effective and better quality service to their customers instead of sneering at them because they can't afford or wont pay above the odds for (in most cases) average and often surley service.

If traders in the US can deliver product from Japan via the US to NZ for between 25 to 50% of local dealer/distributor prices (and make a profit) then NZ distributors need to re-evaluate their business models and their buying rates from their suppliers and make a decission as to whether they are going to compete or impotently and pointlessly whine about a lack of loyalty from people to whom they have shown little if any interest in (other than to tap into their money).

If a dealer is ordering a product in from their supplier rather than buying parts for stock, then they should be happy to run with a 10 to 20% margin as often times they are paid for the order before they have to pay their supplier. Money for jam. They could even look at buying from overseas dealers themselves. Likely they could organise a bit of additional volume based discount to further reduce their costs.

Their high handed take it or leave it attitude when asked about the possibility of a cheaper price doesn't help the either.

Of course all of that requires them to get off their arses and make changes (incl to their attitudes) that their customers would benefit from. And as customer service in NZ is (generally speaking) only a verbal concept, it ain't likely to be seen as any incentive.

10 to 20% margin on spares. Are you for real? do the sums, thats a recipe for insolvency / bankruptcy given the cost of just opening the front doors.

This response is not a justification for very real inequities that exist, including but not confined to the very distortional effects of currency

[jonbuoy]

10 to 20% margin on spares. Are you for real? do the sums, thats a recipe for insolvency / bankruptcy given the cost of just opening the front doors.

This response is not a justification for very real inequities that exist, including but not confined to the very distortional effects of currency

Thing is we can be our own importers with the power of the interweb, doesn't matter how exclusive the dealership is someone overseas will sell out of market. Its never going to go back to how it was, evolution.

[nzspokes]

10 to 20% margin on spares. Are you for real? do the sums, thats a recipe for insolvency / bankruptcy given the cost of just opening the front doors.

This response is not a justification for very real inequities that exist, including but not confined to the very distortional effects of currency

So the 50% margin model is working well for all the NZ dealer ships then. So they must have great GP.

[Robert Taylor]

So the 50% margin model is working well for all the NZ dealer ships then. So they must have great GP.

Why dont you try the 10-20% model for yourself then? Open a motorcycle shop ( or any business with low volume, motorcycle parts in this country are essentially low volume ) and odds will be taken on how many weeks you will last before being declared insolvent.

Have you wondered why so many Yamaha dealers are going to the wall? Great product, uncompetitive prices and abysmal single digit margins on many models, customers still expecting a discount and / or an unrealistic trade in price.

Would this thread and others like it exist with such voracity if the exchange rate was close to 50 cents US? THINK ABOUT IT....

[Robert Taylor]

Thing is we can be our own importers with the power of the interweb, doesn't matter how exclusive the dealership is someone overseas will sell out of market. Its never going to go back to how it was, evolution.

Funny you should say that, right now I have a customer who purchased several generic ''one size fits all'' cheap and discounted classic MX Ohlins shocks off a US reseller ( who is likely going bust like many companies in the States ) What they didnt tell him is that they will need respringing and revalving to suit the bikes they are being fitted to, perhaps even some length and stroke changes, end fittings etc.
If he had ordered locally this would have all been done at a realistic ceiling price, odds are that having fallen victim to ''box sale mentality'' out of the States it will end up costing him more than had he used local expertise and experience right on his doorstep. With such products its a bit different to buying books or cd's etc.

[nzspokes]

Why dont you try the 10-20% model for yourself then? Open a motorcycle shop ( or any business with low volume, motorcycle parts in this country are essentially low volume ) and odds will be taken on how many weeks you will last before being declared insolvent.

Have you wondered why so many Yamaha dealers are going to the wall? Great product, uncompetitive prices and abysmal single digit margins on many models, customers still expecting a discount and / or an unrealistic trade in price.

Would this thread and others like it exist with such voracity if the exchange rate was close to 50 cents US? THINK ABOUT IT....

So the current model is not working then. :facepalm:

[BoristheBiter]

What I don't understand is why come on here and whine about it.
It has been the same for years and now you have the choice of buying online.
So why do so many feel the need to come on here and gloat about "getting a great deal"?

[Robert Taylor]

So the current model is not working then. :facepalm:

So like I suggested, try your model.........

[nzspokes]

So like I suggested, try your model.........

Ive not suggested a model to work from.

And FYI I owned a company for 11 years on the model you guys work from now. It failed costing me a house, marriage and the ability to see my children when i want to. I now work for a business that uses the suggested model that is doing very well. So yes I know what im talking about.

I hope more dont end up In the position I am in due to lack of ability to realise what they are doing is wrong.

[jonbuoy]

Funny you should say that, right now I have a customer who purchased several generic ''one size fits all'' cheap and discounted classic MX Ohlins shocks off a US reseller ( who is likely going bust like many companies in the States ) What they didnt tell him is that they will need respringing and revalving to suit the bikes they are being fitted to, perhaps even some length and stroke changes, end fittings etc.
If he had ordered locally this would have all been done at a realistic ceiling price, odds are that having fallen victim to ''box sale mentality'' out of the States it will end up costing him more than had he used local expertise and experience right on his doorstep. With such products its a bit different to buying books or cd's etc.

I can see your point but I expect there are dealers out in the states who would re-valve and re-spring before shipping. If I tell a dealer in the states I want a rear shock for a Z750, I weigh 90 kg, most of my riding is regular street riding with the occaisional weekend scratch he could probably do just as good a job as you could. I'm not having a pop at you mate, its just that things have changed and they won't ever go back. Your not the only guy in the world who knows about suspension.

[Jay GTI]

What I don't understand is why come on here and whine about it.
It has been the same for years and now you have the choice of buying online.
So why do so many feel the need to come on here and gloat about "getting a great deal"?

Valid point. The interweb has changed the face of retail for good, so it is up to us as the consumers to use it to our benefit. Complaining to your local dealer about their mark-up is a waste of time, because they cannot compete with the online companies and ebay. Simply, their business model is built around the cost of providing the local service. Fair or unfair, it's what it costs.

However, as we are becoming more and more web-savvy, we are able to get around these local costs and buy products way below what a local NZ dealer can afford to sell them for. So yes, this means the big bike dealerships that have been around for 20+ years will struggle and then possibly fold, simply because the high turnover items that kept them afloat are now being bought from the internet.

The thing is, the market dictates the rules, where we as consumers choose to spend our money dictates who will be a success or won't be. We don't owe the big Suzuki, Kawasaki or whoever dealer a living, we spend our money where it suits us. This has changed the way we purchase bike and bike-related products forever, there is no going back and it's up to the dealers and suppliers to decide if they want to (or even can) adapt.

[jonbuoy]

Probably why travel agents, book shops and music stores are dissapearing.

[Bassmatt]

I can see your point but I expect there are dealers out in the states who would re-valve and re-spring before shipping. If I tell a dealer in the states I want a rear shock for a Z750, I weigh 90 kg, most of my riding is regular street riding with the occaisional weekend scratch he could probably do just as good a job as you could. I'm not having a pop at you mate, its just that things have changed and they won't ever go back. Your not the only guy in the world who knows about suspension.

:corn: (10chars)

[scott411]

Valid point. The interweb has changed the face of retail for good, so it is up to us as the consumers to use it to our benefit. Complaining to your local dealer about their mark-up is a waste of time, because they cannot compete with the online companies and ebay. Simply, their business model is built around the cost of providing the local service. Fair or unfair, it's what it costs.

However, as we are becoming more and more web-savvy, we are able to get around these local costs and buy products way below what a local NZ dealer can afford to sell them for. So yes, this means the big bike dealerships that have been around for 20+ years will struggle and then possibly fold, simply because the high turnover items that kept them afloat are now being bought from the internet.

The thing is, the market dictates the rules, where we as consumers choose to spend our money dictates who will be a success or won't be. We don't owe the big Suzuki, Kawasaki or whoever dealer a living, we spend our money where it suits us. This has changed the way we purchase bike and bike-related products forever, there is no going back and it's up to the dealers and suppliers to decide if they want to (or even can) adapt.

well said, i said this a while ago but it still rings true, every industry has changed over the last 10 years i have owned a shop, and it wll continue to change,

the attitude that some bring on here that the shop must be a lying cheating thief if i can get it cheaper elsewhere is what pisses alot of the people off,

[Robert Taylor]

Ive not suggested a model to work from.

And FYI I owned a company for 11 years on the model you guys work from now. It failed costing me a house, marriage and the ability to see my children when i want to. I now work for a business that uses the suggested model that is doing very well. So yes I know what im talking about.

I hope more dont end up In the position I am in due to lack of ability to realise what they are doing is wrong.

To give your argument some credibility you need to elaborate further about what line of business you are now in and what the volumes are. Are apples being compared with apples etc

[Robert Taylor]

I can see your point but I expect there are dealers out in the states who would re-valve and re-spring before shipping. If I tell a dealer in the states I want a rear shock for a Z750, I weigh 90 kg, most of my riding is regular street riding with the occaisional weekend scratch he could probably do just as good a job as you could. I'm not having a pop at you mate, its just that things have changed and they won't ever go back. Your not the only guy in the world who knows about suspension.

Try telling that to the Guy who bought an Elka shock because it was cheaper and it was supposedly setup for his weight etc....Try ttelling the guy with the R1200 who was dissatisfied with what the Yanks sent him. Shall I go on?

The point is there is a LOT more to respringing and revalving than is realised because there are a lot more variables to account for. For example:

1) Those side pannier bags have 25kg each in them, but what is their exact position and therefore how much leverage are they are imparting on the swingarm and shock? How can you easily do the maths for that? Being on hand with a bunch of springs, measuring and test riding is the means of achieving the very best result, no argument.

2) You have given the overseas reseller your weight but did you tell him that you are 6 feet 8 inches tall and have handlebar risers fitted? Thereby you are sitting back further on the bike and imparting more leverage on it than a rider of the same weight who is a more regular 5 feet 10 inches tall

3) Did you tell the guy you have ''lowering links'' fitted ( which almost always stuff up the suspension action.) Believe me we strike this quite often. As an aside you can instantly and emphatically call the bluff of the lowering link manufacturer by asking for an overlay graph of the original link curve against a system fitted with their links....that speaks volumes

4) Are you convinced that facelees Yank taking your money actually understands our roading conditions and that unlike their freeways we have a very high ratio of bumps.

So you recieve your suspension, the springing turns out to not quite be ideal due to another variable that cannot be imparted by spring rate calculators / maths....your own preference of ''feel''. The revalve prior to sale also turns out to not be as ideal as what would have been hoped for. Or you go to a trackday and cannot find good enough grip and tyre life. So you are unhappy ( and we have seen this happen A LOT ) Will that guy who is on the other side of the world and who has happily taken your money be no more than a $10 overnight courier away? In such scenarios he may as well be on Mars.

Purchasing items offshore that require setup skill is a sizable risk, fact. By buying locally ( where credible infrastructure exists )you remove a lot of the risk because there is someone you can access without HUGE freight return costs and phone bills or slow / unsatisfactory e-mail response. Heck if you are a track rider you may be able to access him at a track day, well theres more chance of that than your Yankee friend turning up to back up what he sells indiscrimantely around the world. How does it go? Out of sight out of mind?

[Robert Taylor]

well said, i said this a while ago but it still rings true, every industry has changed over the last 10 years i have owned a shop, and it wll continue to change,

the attitude that some bring on here that the shop must be a lying cheating thief if i can get it cheaper elsewhere is what pisses alot of the people off,

Undeniably change is constant and there are those of us that embrace it ( or fail ) but are also not afraid to point out some very real negatives as well.

With respect to your second paragraph that really irks me as well, as it would other people in many industries. There is in this new interweb world a new attitude of skepticism, '' I will do some research on this on the web''. There is a lot of good and credible information on the web but there is also a lot of abject rubbish. ''Its on the web so it must be correct, right? ''....yeah right . More than a few have come unstuck because they trusted ''the research.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Try telling that to the Guy who bought an Elka shock because it was cheaper and it was supposedly setup for his weight etc....Try ttelling the guy with the R1200 who was dissatisfied with what the Yanks sent him. Shall I go on?

The point is there is a LOT more to respringing and revalving than is realised because there are a lot more variables to account for. For example:

1) Those side pannier bags have 25kg each in them, but what is their exact position and therefore how much leverage are they are imparting on the swingarm and shock? How can you easily do the maths for that? Being on hand with a bunch of springs, measuring and test riding is the means of achieving the very best result, no argument.

2) You have given the overseas reseller your weight but did you tell him that you are 6 feet 8 inches tall and have handlebar risers fitted? Thereby you are sitting back further on the bike and imparting more leverage on it than a rider of the same weight who is a more regular 5 feet 10 inches tall

3) Did you tell the guy you have ''lowering links'' fitted ( which almost always stuff up the suspension action.) Believe me we strike this quite often. As an aside you can instantly and emphatically call the bluff of the lowering link manufacturer by asking for an overlay graph of the original link curve against a system fitted with their links....that speaks volumes

4) Are you convinced that facelees Yank taking your money actually understands our roading conditions and that unlike their freeways we have a very high ratio of bumps.

So you recieve your suspension, the springing turns out to not quite be ideal due to another variable that cannot be imparted by spring rate calculators / maths....your own preference of ''feel''. The revalve prior to sale also turns out to not be as ideal as what would have been hoped for. Or you go to a trackday and cannot find good enough grip and tyre life. So you are unhappy ( and we have seen this happen A LOT ) Will that guy who is on the other side of the world and who has happily taken your money be no more than a $10 overnight courier away? In such scenarios he may as well be on Mars.

Purchasing items offshore that require setup skill is a sizable risk, fact. By buying locally ( where credible infrastructure exists )you remove a lot of the risk because there is someone you can access without HUGE freight return costs and phone bills or slow / unsatisfactory e-mail response. Heck if you are a track rider you may be able to access him at a track day, well theres more chance of that than your Yankee friend turning up to back up what he sells indiscrimantely around the world. How does it go? Out of sight out of mind?

You made your point well.

If your selling point (and income) is the service you offer, what is the problem in providing that service to those of us who have bought our shocks overseas?

If the margins to be made on the product sales themselves isn't the big earn, and double the number of shocks are sold to Kiwis as a result of the savings (and mistakes) they made, don't you then have twice the number of customers who need your services to fix their stuff ups? I don't see the problem. Unless the cream is really in the margins.

[scott411]

Undeniably change is constant and there are those of us that embrace it ( or fail ) but are also not afraid to point out some very real negatives as well.

With respect to your second paragraph that really irks me as well, as it would other people in many industries. There is in this new interweb world a new attitude of skepticism, '' I will do some research on this on the web''. There is a lot of good and credible information on the web but there is also a lot of abject rubbish. ''Its on the web so it must be correct, right? ''....yeah right . More than a few have come unstuck because they trusted ''the research.

but what would we know Robert, i mean, i have only 10 years of owning a business and employing people, and i have forgotton how long you have been doing it but much longer,

[Robert Taylor]

You made your point well.

If your selling point (and income) is the service you offer, what is the problem in providing that service to those of us who have bought our shocks overseas?

If the margins to be made on the product sales themselves isn't the big earn, and double the number of shocks are sold to Kiwis as a result of the savings (and mistakes) they made, don't you then have twice the number of customers who need your services to fix their stuff ups? I don't see the problem. Unless the cream is really in the margins.

We do indeed provide such a service and not only for our favoured Ohlins product. In fact we are picking up the tab more and more on a couple of high profile products where a NZ Distributor exists, and because of the indolence of one said distributor.

Margins are not handsome so if its not one we sold the issue is fixed at a fair and equitable rate, its about creating new customers. If its one we sold and its not right then there is no charge, at least we have had some modicum of margin to allow same. Cant be fairer than that!

[Robert Taylor]

but what would we know Robert, i mean, i have only 10 years of owning a business and employing people, and i have forgotton how long you have been doing it but much longer,

If there is no business there is no employment, thats something we all need to be abundantly mindful of irrespective of all the whys and wherefores

[nzspokes]

To give your argument some credibility you need to elaborate further about what line of business you are now in and what the volumes are. Are apples being compared with apples etc

Meh........

[Katman]

Meh........

Wow, that's an intelligent response.

Are you sure your business didn't fail simply through ineptitude?

[jonbuoy]

Try telling that to the Guy who bought an Elka shock because it was cheaper and it was supposedly setup for his weight etc....Try ttelling the guy with the R1200 who was dissatisfied with what the Yanks sent him. Shall I go on?

The point is there is a LOT more to respringing and revalving than is realised because there are a lot more variables to account for. For example:

1) Those side pannier bags have 25kg each in them, but what is their exact position and therefore how much leverage are they are imparting on the swingarm and shock? How can you easily do the maths for that? Being on hand with a bunch of springs, measuring and test riding is the means of achieving the very best result, no argument.

2) You have given the overseas reseller your weight but did you tell him that you are 6 feet 8 inches tall and have handlebar risers fitted? Thereby you are sitting back further on the bike and imparting more leverage on it than a rider of the same weight who is a more regular 5 feet 10 inches tall

3) Did you tell the guy you have ''lowering links'' fitted ( which almost always stuff up the suspension action.) Believe me we strike this quite often. As an aside you can instantly and emphatically call the bluff of the lowering link manufacturer by asking for an overlay graph of the original link curve against a system fitted with their links....that speaks volumes

4) Are you convinced that facelees Yank taking your money actually understands our roading conditions and that unlike their freeways we have a very high ratio of bumps.

So you recieve your suspension, the springing turns out to not quite be ideal due to another variable that cannot be imparted by spring rate calculators / maths....your own preference of ''feel''. The revalve prior to sale also turns out to not be as ideal as what would have been hoped for. Or you go to a trackday and cannot find good enough grip and tyre life. So you are unhappy ( and we have seen this happen A LOT ) Will that guy who is on the other side of the world and who has happily taken your money be no more than a $10 overnight courier away? In such scenarios he may as well be on Mars.

Purchasing items offshore that require setup skill is a sizable risk, fact. By buying locally ( where credible infrastructure exists )you remove a lot of the risk because there is someone you can access without HUGE freight return costs and phone bills or slow / unsatisfactory e-mail response. Heck if you are a track rider you may be able to access him at a track day, well theres more chance of that than your Yankee friend turning up to back up what he sells indiscrimantely around the world. How does it go? Out of sight out of mind?

All good points and you go the extra mile to make sure your customers are 110% happy with the product which is probably why your still in business, I´m sure you will survive but a lot of people aren´t offering any more backup than the guy in the warehouse in the states but still charging a big premium which is why they are getting bypassed. I work in the marine industry - our markups were being chipped away by overseas sellers and management companies dealing direct with manufacturers (20% was the norm)- they still came to us for technical support when things went wrong and held up the warranty flag and we had to tow the line so to speak.

I sold my soul and now I work direct for owners myself - gotta keep that bread on the table. Evolve or become extinct.

[Robert Taylor]

All good points and you go the extra mile to make sure your customers are 110% happy with the product which is probably why your still in business, I´m sure you will survive but a lot of people aren´t offering any more backup than the guy in the warehouse in the states but still charging a big premium which is why they are getting bypassed. I work in the marine industry - our markups were being chipped away by overseas sellers and management companies dealing direct with manufacturers (20% was the norm)- they still came to us for technical support when things went wrong and held up the warranty flag and we had to tow the line so to speak.

I sold my soul and now I work direct for owners myself - gotta keep that bread on the table. Evolve or become extinct.

But isnt that the way service should be? Optimising for the market conditions, as someone who is appointed by the manufacturer to look after the appointed territory. We are into BEST VALUE AND BEST BACKUP rather than best / cheapest price. There is a big difference.

I will tell you something for free. We get a number of enquiries from Australia and doubtless a few cross over to the penal colony from our shaky isles. But we always bounce them back as we have a gentlemans agreement with the Aussie distributor to not impinge into his appointed territory and vice versa. We are not fighting each other with customers playing us off with dutch auction mentality, further eroding already thin margins and devaluing the product. Maybe thats old fashioned but Id rather have a good relationship with the next distributor at the next bus stop.

Cynically, I look back at the 70s and in those days there were many small businesses and their owners were able to make a comfortable living ( not so much to make them wealthy ) and employ a few of our own along the way. Now because of the total de-regulation of world markets ( and this is not a green light for a copy of ''War and Peace'' ) the dynamic has changed so much that many of these people can now only eke out a meager living working as ''serfs'' for big box retailers. That is a sad state of affairs and is helping to further dumb down our country. Purchasing offshore en-masse only further exacerbates this dynamic.

There is another dynamic that is a huge consideration for businesses that require a heavy technical focus such as ours. To provide a proper service you need a not insubstanial investment in tooling ( and there are always new ones to buy ) and ongoing training. We proudly do not scrimp in this department and scathingly I look at competitors and indeed many motorcycle shops that are seriously deficient in same. In our armoury beyond handtools we have a fairly substanial lathe, bench equipment, digital spring rate testing equipment, a $7000 Ohlins vacuum bleeder and most recently we have spent nearly $30,000 on a state of the art fork and shock dyno ( nearly up and running )

I stress to add though that this latest purchase was not funded at all from our supposedly exorbitant price gouging profits ( I wish ) It was purchased using a first small advance from a family legacy and competing with that was pressure from the home front to spend it there. Or if I was still that way inclined I could have bought a fairly decent motorcycle for that sort of money. Call me nuts but we want to provide even better service and understanding into the future.

Our supplier ( Ohlins racing AB Sweden ) requires that we travel to Sweden up to once every two years, sometimes annually to be schooled up with the latest technology etc. That is totally at our cost with respect to the cost of downtime, cost of airfares and accomodation, meals etc. Getting to the other side of the world and back is not insubstanial in cost.

In selling such a ( relatively )low volume product that is very specific and in a tiny market the costs of keeping up to speed can look quite disproportionate. Unless you have Briscos style turnover and margins this is something that has to be carefully weighed up. New Zealand already has a serious skills shortage in many fields, the reasons are many but the cost of keeping up with technology when you balance it out against fairly meager returns will be a contributory factor.

Every sale lost offshore ( for whatever reasons justified and arguably unjustified ) is another nail in the coffin of the total ability to provide the best possible backup service at local level. Cheapest price comes at a cost.

For our part we are doing our best to meet new and often distasteful realities.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Not disputing the logic, but things have already changed a lot in the market here.

I bought this (now) $1300 watch (was about $1400) for $420 (approx 30% of retail) delivered about 6 years ago.
http://www.citizenwatches.co.nz/products/model/JR3090-58M

No doubt I could buy it cheaper now (if it was still available anywhere except NZ) but overseas stockists ran out of the old stock years ago and have a much flasher new model for about the same cost ($420 NZ upwards)

I'm all for Kiwi jobs and local businesses but not when I have to subsidise them by paying 250% more than the value of the goods that they want to sell to me.

How am I looking after my own (and my families) best interests when all these fine businesses and their fine employees must be propped up with 70% of the 60% of my income which the govt leaves me.

The answer is that I can't. I have to be selective about what I spend money on and how much I can get for my dollar. We all do.

[Robert Taylor]

Not disputing the logic, but things have already changed a lot in the market here.

I bought this (now) $1300 watch (was about $1400) for $420 (approx 30% of retail) delivered about 6 years ago.
http://www.citizenwatches.co.nz/products/model/JR3090-58M

No doubt I could buy it cheaper now (if it was still available anywhere except NZ) but overseas stockists ran out of the old stock years ago and have a much flasher new model for about the same cost ($420 NZ upwards)

I'm all for Kiwi jobs and local businesses but not when I have to subsidise them by paying 250% more than the value of the goods that they want to sell to me.

How am I looking after my own (and my families) best interests when all these fine businesses and their fine employees must be propped up with 70% of the 60% of my income which the govt leaves me.

The answer is that I can't. I have to be selective about what I spend money on and how much I can get for my dollar. We all do.

Suffice to say that I was offering a perspective of the issues in my chosen field and I am well aware of huge price disparities that occur with many products.

I think there is a general attitude though with many consumers that there is a huge price discrepancy with ALL products, which of course there is not.

[BoristheBiter]

Not disputing the logic, but things have already changed a lot in the market here.

I bought this (now) $1300 watch (was about $1400) for $420 (approx 30% of retail) delivered about 6 years ago.
http://www.citizenwatches.co.nz/products/model/JR3090-58M

No doubt I could buy it cheaper now (if it was still available anywhere except NZ) but overseas stockists ran out of the old stock years ago and have a much flasher new model for about the same cost ($420 NZ upwards)

I'm all for Kiwi jobs and local businesses but not when I have to subsidise them by paying 250% more than the value of the goods that they want to sell to me.

How am I looking after my own (and my families) best interests when all these fine businesses and their fine employees must be propped up with 70% of the 60% of my income which the govt leaves me.

The answer is that I can't. I have to be selective about what I spend money on and how much I can get for my dollar. We all do.

I just did a quick search on that watch and even though it is cheaper in places, ebay and the like $AUS499-$USD215, it still says that the RRP is $1300.
If you go to the south African web site it is over $1400 so they would say it's cheaper here.

I don't think you can compare a watch to vehicle parts and services other than a certain part is a certain part.
As stated, overseas markets are much bigger than ours and because of that we will pay a higher price on most things.

[Bassmatt]

Cynically, I look back at the 70s and in those days there were many small businesses and their owners were able to make a comfortable living ( not so much to make them wealthy ) and employ a few of our own along the way. Now because of the total de-regulation of world markets ( and this is not a green light for a copy of ''War and Peace'' ) the dynamic has changed so much that many of these people can now only eke out a meager living working as ''serfs'' for big box retailers.



Thought you were a "self confessed 'tory " Robert? Didnt think that one through eh?

[Robert Taylor]

Thought you were a "self confessed 'tory " Robert? Didnt think that one through eh?

Yes that issue is a conundrum. Proudly I am a lifelong tory but also a compassionate one

[paturoa]

I'm looking at the options for an american trip including buying over there and shipping home. Bidrider advertise a $1500 nz (no hidden costs - tui ad) shipping from USA to NZ.

So I was looking for a tiger 800xc, and there are bugger all on ebay or craigslist, so I went to the USA triumph site bike builder configurator thingie which calculates the recommended retail prices.

In $US a 800xc with panniers, heated grips, sump guard etc is $14,848 ride away, or $18,000 nz at current exchange rates. So for interests sake I checked the nz site and the same spec bike calculates at $27,000.

Add the $1500 to the $18,000 and that is still $500 cheaper than a bare bones XC with no farkles.

Seems to big a gap. You've got to wonder how the american dealers survive.

Still - did anyone see the price of steiny pures in califormia recently
A six-pack of Steinlager Pure typically sells for about $16 in New Zealand. But travel 10,000km from where it is brewed, to America, and it can be bought for about $6. here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783093

EDIT: aparently the us cost don't include taxes - will investigate
EDIT #2: found a DMV site that said $1480 us dollars sales tax registration - so that would make it $16328 us or $19755 nz. So that is still $7000 nz cheaper over there.