Cornering

[diss1dent]

Sorry, another newbie thread <_<

I've been riding a few days now on my 250 I've just bought and I'm just unsure about the whole leaning thing. I've already noticed the bike will corner much better if u lean it a bit, but I'm still taking corners much slower than a car, (I'm talking a nana in her starlet.) I'm assuming its just a confidence thing and I just need to work on it; but its getting over that feeling that the bike is falling over. I've been round a few s - bends and after the first turn the bike really wants to lean over for the next turn but I end up bringing it more into a upright position.

I took my bike round to show a mate of mine and he said the rear tyre is slightly worn and showed me that it has a flat spot in the curve of the tyre. He said this will be really affecting the grip I get on the initial lean as it comes off the flat spot and onto a point. He said if I get a new tyre I'll find the bike will be much easier to lean.

But I dont want to buy a new tyre and not use the full tread and end up ruining it because I hadn't been leaning.

Your thoughts?

[James Deuce]

This may sound harsh, but it is meant to be helpful, so hopefully it will come across that way.

1. Stop talking to mates and do a handling skills course.
2. Is the tyre warrantable? If not buy a new one.
3. IS the tyre obviously squared off? If so buy a new one. A simple rule of thumb for me is if the tyre is markedly affecting handling get rid of it. If your bike handles better your confidence will improve and you'll use more of the next tyre.
4. Get something you can use as markers and find an empty carpark on a Sunday morning and practice cornering, braking, and "SA" - Situational Awareness.

Until you've done the course and had an objective analysis of your riding style (by someone who isn't a mate and therefore doesn't give a rat's banana about your feelings) you won't have the foggiest idea about the areas you need to improve, or baselines for your own limits.

I've been riding for 20 years now (with a 10 year break from road riding due to being chicken after having my neck and back broken) and I try to do two track days a year and one riding course a year. I read as much about motorcycling as I can because more knowledge means more skills and more skills means a better chance of living to enjoy my riding.

The trackdays will teach you that your bike is probably waaay better than you are and because you are all circulating in the same direction there is less chance of serious injury if you fall off. They are also FUN. Big giant massive FUN. You don't have to be the fastest because it's not a race, but you really get to explore bike and personal limits and you may get an idea or two as to what constitutes the real limits, both personal and bike related.

Now - get on with it :)

Jim2

[diss1dent]

Nah man constructive critisism is all good.

The tyre isn't obviously squared, you can just see its not a perfect curve anymore; I'll post a pic of it to be sure anyway.

I've been doing some practise on some new sub-divisions around where I live, because of their nice road carpet surface. But your right I need someone to point out my errors before they become habits. Are there any courses/ places you'd recomend to going to? I'll pop into the ltsa/AA tomorrow and see what they have.

Cheers

[wkid_one]

Don't listen to what I have to say as I highside anyway.

For courses check you local bike shops. For experience - find a group of people to ride with of varying skill levels.

I agree with getting on the track early - however, you need to ride within your limits.

DON'T SKIMP ON TYRES - they are the only thing connecting you with the ground.

And remember - the idea is to go around the corner with the most speed and LEAST lean.

As you enter corners quicker - you will naturally lean further.

[Slingshot]

Leaning is half the fun of riding a motorbike. When I started riding on the road (earlier this year) I would make a point of looking for corners.

You'll be surprised how far a bike will lean over before it lets go of the road and you get gravel rash...I scrapped my both my pegs yesterday coming down through Khandalla.

I still think the best way to learn is following a decent rider, have them start out slowish and then slowly get them to pick up there speed. Look at their line around corners and the amount of lean.

Another thought...do you own safety Gear? Generally speaking, you'll feel more confident if you are wearing a decent jacket, pants, gloves & boots.

[duckman]

These are all very good replies but theres one more point worth mentioning..... Take it slowly, you've just got the bike and it takes some time get to the point where you are "leaning" the bike over for corners. The worst thing you can do is try to rush the process.

Enjoy yourself and let us know how your progressing. :cool:

[750Y]

welcome & congrats on the new bike.

DO get yourself on a riding course.
DON'T be impatient, stay in your comfort zone.
DO get some protective gear.
GO have fun and ride safely.

ps; with respect, i think your mate is being a little dramatic about the tyre but get it to a bike tyre shop for an expert opinion.

[wkid_one]

You'll get to a point where 150 on the bike feels like 75 in car. Most modern big bore thous will do 0-200 in the time the average car does 0-100. You take the GSXR's, R1's etc all do sub-11 sec quarters easily out of the box - most sub 10 with a decent rider.

You'll love it - but remember - any idiot can get behind the wheel of a car and drive it fast - it takes ALOT more skill to do the same on a bike.

Don't be in a hurry to lean too far - it will come with time. It will seem like no time before you are dragging your knee - but don't force it.

Most learners come off because their confidence exceeds their capacity (I did it, as probably have most of the riders on here). Take your time and get comfortable with the bike.

The best advice I was ever given when cornering was to bend the inside elbow (should be bent anyway) and drop the inside shoulder down and toward the corner.

No doubt we could go in to the mechanics of countersteering, lean verus steer, weight transferrance, forward/rear weight bias - but this would just confuse things.

Get a copy of Twist of the Wrist One and Two from Keith Code - THIS SHOULD MAKE UP THE LEARNERS LICENSE.

Get out on some of the rides that people arrange on this board. This is a great way to learn in a friendly environment - and most of the guys on here would be more than happy to give you pointers (I can show you how to highside a bike from full lean one side to the other in a second if you like - although you can only practice it once).

That said - when riding in a group - don't feel compelled to keep up - everyone here has been a learner and tail end charlie in a group - so no one thinks anything less of the last person to turn up.......we are just happy they made it in one peice.

Make sure you have the right gear - it only costs money to fix the bike - it is a bit harder for the body tho. 750Y is right.

Most of all enjoy it.

[bluninja]

You'll love it - but remember - any idiot can get behind the wheel of a car and drive it fast - it takes ALOT more skill to do the same on a bike.
Any idiot can go fast on a bike in a straight line, and any idiot (including me) can give dodgy advice on a forum like this. I suggest that you get someone to teach/train you at the start to establish good safe habits, then practice and play lots, then do some more training.

TTFN

[wkid_one]

Any idiot can go fast on a bike in a straight line, and any idiot (including me) can give dodgy advice on a forum like this. I suggest that you get someone to teach/train you at the start to establish good safe habits, then practice and play lots, then do some more training.

TTFN

I agree. You do need to leanr the basic principals of what makes a bike work......why do I countersteer? how hard can i brake? what to do if I get a flat tyre? where do I look? etc.

My best advice at the mo tho - IF you don't have confidence in your tyres anymore - change 'em. The last thing you want is to come in to a corner and be thinking about your tyres.

[Kwaka-Kid]

Just RIIIDE brother! thats the best advice if you ask me... its taken 3.5 years for me to finally become confident on bikes and think that im actually leaning a bike in corners and can do so semi-smoothly at some speed...there is still a long way however. And for me it really was just needing more road experience, and watching KB'ers just fly so smoothly thru corners that just reinforced that it can be done so well... ride ride ride ride ride.. take in all info you can (both from feedback of the bike when riding and someone you trust has good motorcycle ability/technique

good 2 c another new rider.

[wkid_one]

KK can give you advice on having squared off tyres also - having seen the rear MeZ on his bike mere minutes before his spectacular off at Puke. One hasn't seen square tyres unless you saw the tyre KK was sporting on that day.....the ridge was visable from miles away......I think KK called it a 'two stage steering tyre'........

[Kwaka-Kid]

hey that was a Michellein Macadam 90 actually, apparently the hardest touring tyre they make in that size :D the front was the MEZ, and yes that rear felt stuffed up, its amazing what a proper round tyre does to your riding and how well it feels. unfortuantly im not getting enuf feel obviously because i keep squaring tyres off... hmm, so dispose of my last post as i must still be far from other riders in terms of lean angle/speed/pressure on tyres.

[wkid_one]

Squaring tyres off has more to do with the ratio of upright motorway type riding you do than anything - the more time you spend commuting on your tyres (esp if not touring tyres) the more the centre of the tyre will become flatter.

I have seen the reverse whereby guys tyres are shagged on the outside - but the centre is mint (not often mind you - but common on the 'Takas)

[Marmoot]

Heh.....If you were my son, I'd put you up into Basic Handling Skills (contact nearest motorcycle trainer) and have a check on those tyres as well.
Remember, basic handling skills only cost about $80 while falling off could cost you more than $200 (and possibly your life....not to mention the pride).

Better be harsh to a new rider than seeing another one bites the dust. :)

[SPman]

Don't expect to become an accomplished rider overnight.If you've just started riding, you'll be stressing your system just learning all the little things that become automatic with time. Just concentrate on the basics first - preferably with a course of some kind - what ever they have in Welly. Once you'vr got the basics under control - ie - they've become more automatic and you dont have to think about them (actively), then concentrate on smoothness - forget speed and big corner angles at the moment - you'll find that as your confidence/experience builds up, you can start explonng boundaries more and then ..............
Otherwise - just get out there, observe and ride - all weathers - and dont be afraid to ask questions, no matter how stupid they may seem - you may even get a good answer sometimes........

[Big Dog]

Welcome to the art of falling off. lol.
The hardest part for me to learn is that you have more traction during constant acceleration than during deceleration (as far as physics go constant speed is a flux between the two, on cold tyres this flux can cause nasty high sides, I saw a mate do this).

Do your braking before you lean and Gently accelerate through the corner. I don't mean send the front for the sky!

After each corner think about it.
If you filled you undies, change them and try again braking harder or sooner.
If you fell buzzed about it thats about right but willl be too fast in the wet.
If you feel bored by the prospect of doing it again go a little faster or brake a little later.

Practice leaning in using counter steering rather than throwing your wheight behind it. If you want to see why it turns in better when to lean try to roll an ice cream cone in a straight line. It works when the wheel upright coz your contact patch is flatish oval. In a lean its more of a triangle.

Subject to your tyre being in good nick and you having reflexes faster than those of a sloth your cornering is safer by leaning than trying to steer without the bike pitching over.

If the above sounded like gobbledy gook seek proffesional help!

[Motoracer]

Squaring tyres off has more to do with the ratio of upright motorway type riding you do than anything - the more time you spend commuting on your tyres (esp if not touring tyres) the more the centre of the tyre will become flatter.

I have seen the reverse whereby guys tyres are shagged on the outside - but the centre is mint (not often mind you - but common on the 'Takas)

You can call it triangleing off lol

[diss1dent]

Cheers for the responces guys.

I didn't realise how little protection I have till reading these forums, now I feel strange about riding since I dont have any gear (cept a helmet).
Didn't get any riding done today anyway, was changing the oil, plugs and filters today; and I took my exhaust off, gave it a good rubbing back and painted it; should look good.

For now I'm just going to ride around sedately till I get some gear, then I'll take to some corners.

[Motoracer]

For now I'm just going to ride around sedately till I get some gear, then I'll take to some corners.

Good plan :niceone: Do keep in mind that there is no such thing as being too careful when riding a motorcycle in traffic. You either get lucky and slowly learn to protect yourself after near misses or you learn it the hard way when the unfortunate happens.

Not wanting you to scare you or anything but when you are on a bike its a completly different world all together in normal traffic situations. eg Giveway (How many of us have stories to tell about this one?)

Motorcycleing is an addiction, once your hooked, your hooked. Its really good fun but there are always the dangers. Stay safe and have a blast mate. :Punk: Welcome to our world. :wavey: You are now a part of something bigger. :cool:

P.S. I shouldn't give any advises on cornering otherwise I might pass on some bad habbits. Just take advise from the pros and practice practice practice!

[Sycophant]

eg Giveway (How many of us have stories to tell about this one?)

You mean, like in the last day, right? Because I am sure I have a couple from my ten minute ride home just before, then there was the taxi on K'Road last night, and the bus on Dominion Road after that. And the debris on the road on the way to work. And...

[Sharkey]

... and the guy who cuts you off when he doesn't indicate around a roundabout in Orewa, or the other guy who runs a red light on the Pakuranga highway, or your own silly fault for applying lots of brakes on a painted arrow at an intersection.....

[Big Dog]

MMMM, pays to keep in mind the old saying, "Many a man has died defending his right of way". (it used to say that on the inside cover of my motorcycle road code).

[Marmoot]

Heh, I like that one BD :)

You don't have to be at fault to die, eh :)
In the war it's called Collateral Damage.

[Big Dog]

Yup, always assume you have not been seen.


Funnily enough all those near misses and not my faults dry up when you obey the golden rule......


Every other MF on the road is only there to kill you!


I find assuming this makes for a very relaxing ride! Because every time you are proven wrong is a reason to celebrate... leaving you all warm and fuzzy.

Its all about expectation... a bit like christmas really. If the wife buys you a R1/GSXR100/ Ducati for christmas how on earth are you not going to be disappointed next year?

[Marmoot]

I find assuming this makes for a very relaxing ride! Because every time you are proven wrong is a reason to celebrate... leaving you all warm and fuzzy.

LOL. AMEN, BROTHER!!! :2thumbsup