Are you ready to get your hands dirty? Or would you rather watch?

[The Singing Chef]

A few incidents bring this to a stage where I want to do a Poll on it, at my work we have a "policy" where if there is a fight outside our hotel, under no circumstances are we allowed to get involved with the penalty being deemed on the basis of serious misconduct.

Now most of the fights happen at either night time or early in the morning when I arrive, I usually hear about them but have stepped in to a fair few. Usually it is a group of 3 - 6 guys bashing another guy, who often lies bleeding, broken and sometimes unconcious on the ground, where the police usually pick them up from and get an ambulance.

Anytime I see a fight unfolding in front of me, I will more often than not step in and try break up the fight, with the only exception being a huge group of people bashing each other (Saw a group of males and females, around 20 of them going for it on Queen st once.) I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about this policy because when it comes down to it, it could be somebody's life, mental health, or stuck in a wheelchair in the most extreme circumstances.

If I lose my job because of helping somebody from a severe beating then so be it, now let me clarify, I am not going in fists swinging, very rarely actually. My first option is to push/grab/get inbetween the people doing the beating and stop it from that way.

But many people I know, are either too afraid to jump in and help. Be it because of fear of loosing their job, being charged with assualt, getting hurt themselves etc... It's like the attack on that lady in (Rotorua?) where 20 people stood and watched as she falsley exclaimed that she was pregnant.

Do you jump in and try to sort out a fight, or do you stand by and watch? If so, why? I understand that if it is a one on one, and the other dude isn't smashed to peices then that would be a fair fight but any other situation is unnaceptable.

Rant Over.

[mashman]

I'm stuck between the first two. If there are guys beating a woman or someone is on the ground and is still getting a beating, they are probably the two scenarios where I won't sit back and "enjoy" the fight. Dunno really, I guess the situation would dictate how I'd react and as I'm a pacifist pussy I won't do anything unless completely necessary... but I wouldn't care if my job was on the line, as you say there are potentially more important things.

[Mental Trousers]

If it's one on one, stand back and watch the show. But if it's not a fair fight even things up cos you can't let a bunch of cowards win. A mass brawl, step back and make sure you're inside when the cops turn up.

[slofox]

Dunno - never been in that situation.

[SMOKEU]

Usually it is a group of 3 - 6 guys bashing another guy, who often lies bleeding, broken and sometimes unconcious on the ground, where the police usually pick them up from and get an ambulance.



That's not a fight, that's an assault. A fight is where all parties involved are willing to engage in the fight. An assault is where one of the parties does not consent to it.

[The Singing Chef]

That's not a fight, that's an assault. A fight is where all parties involved are willing to engage in the fight. An assault is where one of the parties does not consent to it.

good point, will fix that later.

[tigertim20]

ive done bar security for years, and I can understand the policy your employers have set down.
for one, walking into a fight - well, people in fights are angry and swinging. If they dont recognize you, all they see is a person, who is a stranger to them, coming into their fight. they will assume you are the enemy, they have no way on knowing that your intention is not malicious.
You are putting yourself in danger, and that isnt part of your job description.

Come the time you get clocked (and if you continue to walk into fights good intentions or not, you will) your work is down an employee, and will probably have to pay acc for a workplace injury, and potentially have to answer big questions about why their employee was walking into a fight, there can be big penalties for a licenced premise.

If you're a security guard, and you are wearing a uniform that displays the word, and it is your job description, then cool, do what you can - but note, that even security guards are NOT required to put themselves into a position of personal danger. Call the cops, its really all you can do.

That said i can understand the desire to help someone who is getting hurt, but how does you getting your skull kicked in help anyone?
If you have security, ask them to do what they can. call the cops.
Dont get killed because you stepped into the wrong fight - good intentions or not.

[tigertim20]

That's not a fight, that's an assault. A fight is where all parties involved are willing to engage in the fight. An assault is where one of the parties does not consent to it.

I suggest you brush up on your legal definitions.
You can be charged with assault - and convicted - without having actually touched the other person.
even both people willing, one or both can still be charged with assault.

[SMOKEU]

I suggest you brush up on your legal definitions.
You can be charged with assault - and convicted - without having actually touched the other person.
even both people willing, one or both can still be charged with assault.

If both parties are willing to fight then it's more likely to be classed as "fighting in a public place" than "assault". Then again it does depend on the injuries sustained by any one party.

[The Singing Chef]

ive done bar security for years, and I can understand the policy your employers have set down.
for one, walking into a fight - well, people in fights are angry and swinging. If they dont recognize you, all they see is a person, who is a stranger to them, coming into their fight. they will assume you are the enemy, they have no way on knowing that your intention is not malicious.
You are putting yourself in danger, and that isnt part of your job description.

Come the time you get clocked (and if you continue to walk into fights good intentions or not, you will) your work is down an employee, and will probably have to pay acc for a workplace injury, and potentially have to answer big questions about why their employee was walking into a fight, there can be big penalties for a licenced premise.

If you're a security guard, and you are wearing a uniform that displays the word, and it is your job description, then cool, do what you can - but note, that even security guards are NOT required to put themselves into a position of personal danger. Call the cops, its really all you can do.

That said i can understand the desire to help someone who is getting hurt, but how does you getting your skull kicked in help anyone?
If you have security, ask them to do what they can. call the cops.
Dont get killed because you stepped into the wrong fight - good intentions or not.

yea I know that's the "right" and safest thing to do, but I have a past of physical abuse and when I see it I am unable to stand and watch if its an unfair fight. luckily I am usually in full gear so they end up hurting themselves more depending on what they hit, good protection as well. mmm armoured gloves lol

[tigertim20]

yea I know that's the "right" and safest thing to do, but I have a past of physical abuse and when I see it I am unable to stand and watch if its an unfair fight. luckily I am usually in full gear so they end up hurting themselves more depending on what they hit, good protection as well. mmm armoured gloves lol

like I said, I understand your desire to help, but ask any doorman, or police officer, and they will tell you that the biggest pain in their ass, is 'well meaning onlookers trying to help stop a fight' - your good intentions more often than not, in some way or another just makes things worse, by putting yet another body in the mix. You can try to justify it, and again, I understand your position, but you should also try to recognize that your good intentions are far more likely to make things worse than they are to make things better.

Im just glad I dont do that for a job anymore, I saw some pretty awful examples of the way human beings are prepared to treat each other.

[TrentNz]

normally i just start helping them fuck up the guy there already beating up.

[martybabe]

It's difficult for sure but policy or not if you can stand back and do nothing when a woman is being beat senseless or a young lad is being thrashed by a group of yobs then you have to ask yourself where your place is in a decent society:confused:

Having said that, you have to be aware that you could be walking into a world of shit legally and physically. In good old blighty nearly all youth are tooled up and would think nothing of sticking you just for having the gall to interfere in their business.

I did in fact step in between a man and a woman once upon a time, he was beating her mercilessly, no plee reason or threat would deter him from his task. In the end he turned on me but fortunately, unlike him, I wasn't pissed out of my tree so was able to dispatch him relatively easily. The real pisser of this sorry tale is when the woman saw her attacker unconscious, the bloody cow turned on me for hitting her Husband.

so yeah, stepping in, fraught with peril but sometimes you have to make that call. Do I regret putting myself in the firing line? too right but the fucker was gonna kill her, what do ya do, what do ya do?

[Maha]

Wheres the 'Grab ya'self a beer and a chair' option?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Way too many variables for a definitive answer. Sometimes is the best I can do. I don't disagree with the reasoning of those suggesting that you stay out of it, but it is contrary to natural instinct to not step in and help bring matters to and end when someone is clearly a victim and at risk of serious injury.

I automatically feel contempt for people who are said to stand by idly during assaults. If we are all there to help each other in bad situations then there is less chance of anyone getting seriously fucked up (which in nearly all instances is grossly unfair).

I guess I am saying that I think that it is the right thing to do in most situations. However you shouldn't completely abandon consideration of your own safety. If there appears to be a high risk of getting seriously injured myself (i.e knives, guns, bats etc are being brandished) then I would keep my head down in most of those situations. (Yes, been there and no, it's not what I did.. but then I'm a lane splitter and have no regard for my welfare or that of anyone else:facepalm:)

Better make up your own mind.

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's difficult for sure but policy or not if you can stand back and do nothing when a woman is being beat senseless or a young lad is being thrashed by a group of yobs then you have to ask yourself where your place is in a decent society:confused:

Having said that, you have to be aware that you could be walking into a world of shit legally and physically. In good old blighty nearly all youth are tooled up and would think nothing of sticking you just for having the gall to interfere in their business.

I did in fact step in between a man and a woman once upon a time, he was beating her mercilessly, no plee reason or threat would deter him from his task. In the end he turned on me but fortunately, unlike him, I wasn't pissed out of my tree so was able to dispatch him relatively easily. The real pisser of this sorry tale is when the woman saw her attacker unconscious, the bloody cow turned on me for hitting her Husband.

so yeah, stepping in, fraught with peril but sometimes you have to make that call. Do I regret putting myself in the firing line? too right but the fucker was gonna kill her, what do ya do, what do ya do?

LOL. Been there myself with exact same result and seen it twice more besides. It has made me think twice and walk once :o

[tigertim20]

The real pisser of this sorry tale is when the woman saw her attacker unconscious, the bloody cow turned on me for hitting her Husband.



WAY more common than you would think.

[iYRe]

I kinda agree with tigertim's first coupla posts.
I'm an ex pub bouncer myself, and I voted to step in.. but i would be stepping in with "experience" - there are some situations you just dont get into. I once worked with a pro boxer, who had multiple black belts blah blah blah.. he could fight.. but he lost his confidence when he stepped into a fight and got smashed over the head with a piece of wood from behind, by someone he didnt even know was there.

A couple of points, firstly, as mentioned, its not in your job contract, and worse, if you get injured the company you work for is liable under OSH, or some such thing. Technically, you are "at work" from when you leave home, until you return.. although this might have changed in recent years. Definitely if you are work, and you get injured in a fight.. its a work related accident and that can mean big problems.
Secondly, you just dont know these days what is going to happen.. I dont do security any more, since people started turning up to pubs with weapons..

Anyway, kudos to you for doing something... it takes some testicular fortitude these days.. but still.. if something happens it can be bad for you, your family, AND your employer. Just be careful.. hell careful.

[Oblivion]

Depends what is happening to be honest. If there is a couple of guys beating up the one guy, I'd step in and help, after yelling at them saying "Wtf do you think your doing" at them. If they throw a punch at me, They can expect one back.

If is a group fight, then its not my problem to deal with. If they want to fight in among themselves, then they can go right ahead. I'll be the one cheering them on. Cops arriving is just the icing on the cake.