Waitangi Day [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

PrincessBandit

6th February 2012, 07:55

from headline articles on stuff this morning: From a comparatively peaceful Waitangi Day celebration so far...quoting Joris de Bres

[But while some Maori activists were protesting at Waitangi yesterday, Race Relations Commissioner Joris de Bres criticised those Pakeha who still resisted moves to give "special treatment" to disadvantaged Maori, thousands of whom suffered inequality. "I still have a sense that there is a lack of generosity in some Pakeha attitudes to Maori and there is a lack of will to see measures taken that will help to remove that disadvantage and there is a lack of understanding of this notion that it is actually fair to deal specifically with people who are suffering unfairness." Mr de Bres said he received a "continuing thread of correspondence" against "anything that could be deemed to be a special measure or something that applies particularly to Maori or Pacific people".

"Every time the issue comes up ... then you start to get a level of resistance and resentment and objection.

"I understand where people are coming from when they object to it. All you can really do is continue to have the conversation because, unless you do something about it, the outcomes for everybody are going to be worse in the end." ]

I personally have no issue with those who are disadvantaged getting "special treatment", but it should be across the board. If you have Pakeha, Asian etc who are particularly disadvantaged for some reason should they miss out because they're not Maori?
What we need is people as a society not ripping off systems put in place to assist those who need extra help, regardless of their ethnicity. You will find rip-off artists amongst all cultures who ruin it for the rest who genuinely require more.

Is New Zealand really a country where the general population still have a stingy mean attitude against people in need?

Katman

6th February 2012, 08:06

Is New Zealand really a country where the general population still have a stingy mean attitude against people in need?

I don't believe we have a stingy mean attitude towards people in need.

I believe we have a stingy mean attitude towards people who want to sit on their arses and get hand-outs for nothing.

The area between the two is what we seem to have trouble defining.

James Deuce

6th February 2012, 08:06

Is New Zealand really a country where the general population still have a stingy mean attitude against people in need?

Yes. There are very special exceptions. But generally, NZers are fairly privileged and have no imagination when it comes to helping people truly in need. From a personal perspective, family, especially family, tell you that it's your own fault and to harden up and want to discuss where you've failed, and then act all surprised when you've nowhere to live. Friends generally disappear when things get too hard, and Government has thresholds for providing help set so artificially low (in that you have to be earning less than the minimum wage to qualify) that you have to lose your job and live under a bridge for a year before they'll help.

Ethnicity is a two-edged sword. If you're pakeha, you'll get help when you've descended into bankruptcy, substance abuse, and marketing your kids as sex-toys, after you've served your jail-term. A tinge of Maori DNA and there's about 40 agencies, with money, able to help instantly. To avoid this, you'll have to use and abuse friends and trade trust and respect for security for your family. Asking for help exposes you to scrutiny from agencies that you don't want in your life and accepting help from friends means swallowing all the shit you were fed about self-reliance. It then takes you months to build up the self-respect to start giving back, but in the meantime you get written off as a selfish arsehole because you haven't returned the favour.

As I said, there are very special exceptions, but they are generally very special people and do the same for others in the crap without question or much thought.

mashman

6th February 2012, 09:23

Why would anyone work for less money that they will earn on the dole? There's a massive amount of the population that work for buttons, working more than 1 job to make ends meet and they are berated for not trying harder and suckling at the govt teat. Pretty pathetic really. My 2 cents, it's a lack of empathy for those who are down at the bottom of the pile and the decisions that they choose to make. Work for next to fuck all or sit on my couch and do what I can with the assistance I get. There also seems to be a lack of want to adhere to the legal obligation that each and every non-Maori are entitled to by law. You have a population that are doing the hard yards so that our money is worth what it is worth in that full-employment = hyperinflation and I've seen no evidence to persuade me otherwise. Those at the bottom are doing you a favour by keeping your money at the value it currently is and I highly doubt that they're all Maori or Pacifika. Pay your rent to the Maori as per your contractual obligation and STFU.

In other news, John Key was seen to

http://calitreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/MontyPythonRunAway.jpg

James Deuce

6th February 2012, 09:30

Why would anyone work for less money that they will earn on the dole? There's a massive amount of the population that work for buttons, working more than 1 job to make ends meet and they are berated for not trying harder and suckling at the govt teat. Pretty pathetic really. My 2 cents, it's a lack of empathy for those who are down at the bottom of the pile and the decisions that they choose to make. Work for next to fuck all or sit on my couch and do what I can with the assistance I get. There also seems to be a lack of want to adhere to the legal obligation that each and every non-Maori are entitled to by law. You have a population that are doing the hard yards so that our money is worth what it is worth in that full-employment = hyperinflation and I've seen no evidence to persuade me otherwise. Those at the bottom are doing you a favour by keeping your money at the value it currently is and I highly doubt that they're all Maori or Pacifika. Pay your rent to the Maori as per your contractual obligation and STFU.

In other news, John Key was seen to

That's a fairly one dimensional approach to what constitutes "people in need" and I'd also like to say that quite often choice has nothing to do with people being in need.

Nothing personal.

Katman

6th February 2012, 09:31

Pay your rent to the Maori as per your contractual obligation and STFU.

Spoken like a true cock.

TrentNz

6th February 2012, 10:22

Maoris... what will they complain about next?
never ends :facepalm:

EJK

6th February 2012, 10:26

History is written by the victors

James Deuce

6th February 2012, 10:29

Maoris... what will they complain about next?
never ends http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif
He's Dutch I thought.

davebullet

6th February 2012, 10:36

I work with a Maori lady.

She told me about her nephew that never really paid much interest to his culture, heritage and didn't do that well in school.

He heard that you can get a Maori scholarship to go to tertiary education, which he went for and his aunt endorsed.

He failed all his papers and is re-applying for the scholarship again. His aunt won't endorse him again. Money doesn't have to be paid back either.

I'm all for preserving culture, but not handing out money to someone who is disadvantaged because they are Maori, have blue eyes, nasal hair or anything else that by itself is not a disadvantage.

TrentNz

6th February 2012, 10:36

was talking about the waitangi day in general, and the protests that were happening that caused john key to gap.

mashman

6th February 2012, 10:56

That's a fairly one dimensional approach to what constitutes "people in need" and I'd also like to say that quite often choice has nothing to do with people being in need.

Nothing personal.

Very true. I fully realise that there are circumstances out with anyone's control that send them to the bottom of the financial pile and my "reaction" is the direct opposite (give or take) to the other 1 dimensional cocks :bleh: of this world who say things like

I believe we have a stingy mean attitude towards people who want to sit on their arses and get hand-outs for nothing.

Fire away JD, some things need to be said.

mashman

6th February 2012, 11:03

I'm all for preserving culture, but not handing out money to someone who is disadvantaged because they are Maori, have blue eyes, nasal hair or anything else that by itself is not a disadvantage.

I think some of us would prefer to live in a country of Maori culture than a "western" culture. Where that is the case these problems will arise and indigenous rights, as "protected" by UN declaration, need to be protected where "western" culture is the alternative imho. If it manifests itself as Maori being given a leg up then there's something wrong with the attitudes of those who run the country.

Katman

6th February 2012, 12:23

I think some of us would prefer to live in a country of Maori culture than a "western" culture.

It always amuses me when Poms jump on the 'Honour the Treaty' bandwagon.

Almost as ironic as Smokeu's 'Maori are racist' posts.

mashman

6th February 2012, 13:30

It always amuses me when Poms jump on the 'Honour the Treaty' bandwagon.

Almost as ironic as Smokeu's 'Maori are racist' posts.

As opposed to honour the capitalist social structure bandwagon that's worked so well for everyone concerned. I wish I had put some thought into what I was saying instead of spouting the usual shite you hear from the anti-treaty folk. Your propaganda is weak and only works on the weak minded... as you prove.

TrentNz

6th February 2012, 13:35

Katman

6th February 2012, 13:49

As opposed to honour the capitalist social structure bandwagon that's worked so well for everyone concerned. I wish I had put some thought into what I was saying instead of spouting the usual shite you hear from the anti-treaty folk. Your propaganda is weak and only works on the weak minded... as you prove.

The down-trodden in New Zealand exist because they're too lazy to do anything about it.

Everyone has equal opportunities in New Zealand. Some just prefer to pretend otherwise.

mashman

6th February 2012, 13:53

nah i think id prefer western.. maori culture would drive me fucking insane, i'd literally end up topping myself.

Western 0 - Maori 1 :innocent:...

honestly I'd like a happy medium between the two, the best of both worlds, but if I have to choose one or tother I'd go the Maori way...

mashman

6th February 2012, 13:55

The down-trodden in New Zealand exist because they're too lazy to do anything about it.

Everyone has equal opportunities in New Zealand. Some just prefer to pretend otherwise.

sorry, all I heard was bahhhh bahhhhh bahhhhhh bahhhhh bleat bleat bahhhh bahhhh wonder where my brain went, bahhh bahhhh...

bahhhhh bahhhhh bahhhhh bahhhhh...

BoristheBiter

6th February 2012, 14:44

Western 0 - Maori 1 :innocent:...

honestly I'd like a happy medium between the two, the best of both worlds, but if I have to choose one or tother I'd go the Maori way...

And you would be thrown out with the rest of us.

admenk

6th February 2012, 15:04

It always amuses me when Poms jump on the 'Honour the Treaty' bandwagon.

Is there any particular reason why they (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't?

Katman

6th February 2012, 15:21

Is there any particular reason why they (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't?

Maybe he could write to his Queen and ask her to sort the shit out.

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 15:34

I think some of us would prefer to live in a country of Maori culture than a "western" culture. Where that is the case these problems will arise and indigenous rights, as "protected" by UN declaration, need to be protected where "western" culture is the alternative imho. If it manifests itself as Maori being given a leg up then there's something wrong with the attitudes of those who run the country.

So that means it's OK for women to get drunk when they're pregnant, and for people to beat their children up, steal, assault random people on the streets, tag peoples fences, develop a gambling addiction, rape chicks, and all the rest that goes with Maori culture. Don't forget that they were the ones running round killing and eating one another before European settlers came to NZ. Maybe you'll be the meat in their next hangi.

Katman

6th February 2012, 15:38

BoristheBiter

6th February 2012, 15:42

See, this is what fucks me off about many racist immigrants who think they're qualified to comment on New Zealand's sociology.

Fixed that for you.

Katman

6th February 2012, 15:46

Fixed that for you.

No, it actually didn't need fixing.

Mashman's "pay the Maoris the rent you owe and STFU" comment is just as deplorable.

He's been here all of 5 minutes and thinks he's got his finger on the pulse.

He doesn't know shit.

Kickaha

6th February 2012, 15:49

Katman

6th February 2012, 15:51

I like to believe that the vast majority of New Zealanders just want to get on with life in peace and harmony and see the Treaty as nothing other than a vehicle that a minority use to tear the country apart.

mashman

6th February 2012, 15:53

And you would be thrown out with the rest of us.

See, this is what fucks me off about many racist immigrants who think they're qualified to comment on New Zealand's sociology.

Fixed that for you.

I know there's something odd about those posts of your Boris :shifty:

Mashman's "pay the Maoris the rent you owe and STFU" comment is just as deplorable.

He's been here all of 5 minutes and thinks he's got his finger on the pulse.

And what is the pulse Katman? You must understand that your ancestors were guests on Maori land, as are you today. I merely have a modicum of respect for that, which I find more palatable than your one eyed entitlement complex.

mashman

6th February 2012, 15:55

Yeah because of course that doesn't happen in any other culture :facepalm:

don't be so fuckin stupid, whitey white is whiter than white in the land of the long white cloud.

Katman

6th February 2012, 15:55

You must understand that your ancestors were guests on Maori land, as are you today.

I'm not a guest anywhere.

This is as much my land as anyone else's.

mashman

6th February 2012, 15:56

I'm not a guest anywhere.

This is as much my land as anyone else's.

Westerners 0 - Maori 2

Delerium

6th February 2012, 15:58

mashman

6th February 2012, 16:17

Good one!!!!!! The antagonistic attitude will get you real far!!!! Winner!!!!!

Pay the rent? Ok fine, pay for the technology, greater life expectancy and improvements to the land.

Fact is you can't have it both ways. Wrongs were done by both sides of the fence, as were rights. Your attitude sucks. Its funny how you cant see how blindly racist YOU are.

About the only way to get an honest answer it seems.

:facepalm: as I've mentioned before the western world would have traded with the Maori at some point bringing the technology, life expectancy and improvements to the land etc... the way things were back then it was a case of an adult swindling a child. I accept that it has happened and that being the case so have Maori, but they have a contract with the crown that should be adhered to. It would seem that you're all crying foul because Maori have some power and it should be left to whitey. Apart from the racist side of things the generalisations of where Maori would have been today if they had told whitey to fuck off back then are way off the mark imho. Talk about burying ones head in the sand.

You can have it both ways, you can't if you decide to choose sides. I wave my private parts in your direction @ blindly racist.

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 16:27

Yeah because of course that doesn't happen in any other culture :facepalm:

We all know the Maoris are in general significantly more likely to commit crime in NZ than non Maori. Just look at how many of them are in jail.

You must understand that your ancestors were guests on Maori land, as are you today. I merely have a modicum of respect for that, which I find more palatable than your one eyed entitlement complex.

We are not guests on Maori land. The Maori came here and killed and ate the Moriori, then they claimed that they were ripped off by cheeky whitey because they want to take advantage of white people by playing the race card at every available opportunity. They don't deserve any more fucking rights than the rest of us, and if they don't like it, they can fuck off back into the bush where they can live in a stone age society without any modern European technology.

All they do is demand more and more from the white people and they give nothing back in return. They think that everyone owes them something and are unwilling to accept responsibility for their actions. Out of all the Maori I've ever met, only about 5 of them are actually civilized, intelligent people who I would trust.

TrentNz

6th February 2012, 16:30

what would the Maoris do without having a dryer to put their children in?

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 16:41

So that means it's OK for women to get drunk when they're pregnant, and for people to beat their children up, steal, assault random people on the streets, tag peoples fences, develop a gambling addiction, rape chicks, and all the rest that goes with Maori culture. Don't forget that they were the ones running round killing and eating one another before European settlers came to NZ. Maybe you'll be the meat in their next hangi.

I hear England, Britain etc were places of peace, equality and high living standards back when they all paddled over here.
No crime, poverty or rampant illness.

I am also tall and muscular.

I like to believe that the vast majority of New Zealanders just want to get on with life in peace and harmony and see the Treaty as nothing other than a vehicle that a minority use to tear the country apart.
That makes two of us.
Only another few million to convince :niceone:

Pussy

6th February 2012, 16:49

That makes two of us.
Only another few million to convince :niceone:

Make that three!
When I worked in the engineering trade a few years ago, there were lots of Poms and Glaswegians working on the same sites as me.
After seeing their blatant "the world owes me everything" attitudes, I'm not the least bit surprised that the ship building (as also a lot of other) industries went tits up.
You can only pull a rabbit out of a hat if you put one in to it first.
There is fuck all inequality in this country. There are fucken heaps of people of all ethnicities who need to get off their fat arses and make something of themselves.
I am the first to reach in to my pocket to give someone a hand up... but anyone who thinks they will willingly get a hand out from me can kiss my arse.

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 16:49

I hear England, Britain etc were places of peace, equality and high living standards back when they all paddled over here.
No crime, poverty or rampant illness.

I don't think there were any civilizations like that a few hundred years ago. The rest of us have moved on.

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 16:51

You must understand that your ancestors were guests on Maori land, as are you today...

So surely that means that the Maori people are still guests too because fuck knows they most certainly were not the first People to inhabit New Zealand.

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 16:57

I don't think there were any civilizations like that a few hundred years ago. The rest of us have moved on.
The Moari aren't like that either.
The media seems to be doing a good job of making it look like it.
A minority group making a name for themselves.
Same with "boy-racers".
I am a small white guy, walked through the Palmerston North square today where there were a huge amount of people of Maori descent, I didn't see anyone die, or any crime and I'm alive. :niceone:

On a side note, how many do you think have near, or more than half blood?
I've met a handful of true half blooded Maori, the rest just have Maori blood...It's like claiming that I'm French...

mashman

6th February 2012, 17:08

So surely that means that the Maori people are still guests too because fuck knows they most certainly were not the first People to inhabit New Zealand.

From the conversations I've had with Maori and Pacifika, that's how they see it, they belong to the land and not vice versa. I can only guess that the reason they persist with the land being theirs, is because if the land isn't "owned" then whitey will claim if for himself... then who's going to protect the land/water?

mashman

6th February 2012, 17:09

We are not guests on Maori land. The Maori came here and killed and ate the Moriori, then they claimed that they were ripped off by cheeky whitey because they want to take advantage of white people by playing the race card at every available opportunity. They don't deserve any more fucking rights than the rest of us, and if they don't like it, they can fuck off back into the bush where they can live in a stone age society without any modern European technology.

All they do is demand more and more from the white people and they give nothing back in return. They think that everyone owes them something and are unwilling to accept responsibility for their actions. Out of all the Maori I've ever met, only about 5 of them are actually civilized, intelligent people who I would trust.

:yawn: ... anyone got anything knew other than the black man is bad because he wants what the treaty entitles him too and it's so unfair because I'm white.

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 17:13

:yawn: ... anyone got anything knew other than the black man is bad because he wants what the treaty entitles him too and it's so unfair because I'm white.
Yup legalise pot.

Katman

6th February 2012, 17:20

We should become a republic and consign the crown and the treaty to history.

mashman

6th February 2012, 17:22

Make that three!
... useless bastards ... I am the first to reach in to my pocket to give someone a hand up... but anyone who thinks they will willingly get a hand out from me can kiss my arse.

Make that 4 of us :yes: you got any spare change Mr :eek:

mashman

6th February 2012, 17:23

Yup legalise pot.

I want you to run the country

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 17:34

From the conversations I've had with Maori and Pacifika, that's how they see it, they belong to the land and not vice versa. I can only guess that the reason they persist with the land being theirs, is because if the land isn't "owned" then whitey will claim if for himself... then who's going to protect the land/water?

Indeed...Maori do come from the Pacific islands by their own admission.
So really they are just trying to claim it so the fairer NZérs don't so it instead? Illogical yet I do believe that you're onto something.

IMO...New Zealand is "owned" by New Zealanders and NOT by any one so called race.
I am of german decent however I am Tangata whenua...I am of this Land

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 17:39

I want you to run the country
Deal. You can be my advisor or something.

mashman

6th February 2012, 17:42

Indeed...Maori do come from the Pacific islands by their own admission.
So really they are just trying to claim it so the fairer NZérs don't so it instead? Illogical yet I do believe that you're onto something.

IMO...New Zealand is "owned" by New Zealanders and NOT by any one so called race.
I am of german decent how I am Tangata whenua...I am of this Land

That's the bit that makes no sense eh... but I can't see why else Maori would claim the land but to protect it.

I'm a Pom, fresh off the boat so I must be wrong and can't join the kiwi club... so you're well within your rights to disregard anything I say and I apologise for offering unpalatable points of view, how dare I :). Hopefully my kids will be afforded Tangata whenua "status".

Maha

6th February 2012, 17:43

I'm not a guest anywhere.

This is as much my land as anyone else's.

With ya there Steve....what gives me a giggle is when I hear 16 year olds say ''we didn't give our land away''..
They are correct, they didn't...the highly respected Maori Cheif's of the day (170 years ago) signed the treaty in order to continue the protection of thier rights, no sale agreement was entered into...
Were they fools to do so?... I dont think so...the numbers that do think so, are dwindling by the year.
I dont think the land issue has anything to do with the treaty per se.
The treaty is more about protection of the land and Maori rights.
I may be corrected on this, but I think I have about right...in a nutshell.

mashman

6th February 2012, 17:44

Deal. You can be my advisor or something.

are you mad, oh hang on :innocent:... I'm a racist and I'm English, you won't last long...

TrentNz

6th February 2012, 17:51

rustyrobot

6th February 2012, 17:55

With ya there Steve....what gives me a giggle is when I hear 16 year olds say ''we didn't give our land away''..
They are correct, they didn't...the highly respected Maori Cheif's of the day (170 years ago) signed the treaty in order to continue the protection of thier rights, no sale agreement was entered into...
Were they fools to do so?... I dont think so...the numbers that do think so, are dwindling by the year.
I dont think the land issue has anything to do with the treaty per se.
The treaty is more about protection of the land and Maori rights.
I may be corrected on this, but I think I have about right...in a nutshell.

Actually, a number of different tribes didn't sign the treaty, and those who did signed a version written in Maori with a distinctly different emphasis. All of this is by the by anyway, because the treaty was thoroughly ignored by the 'crown' for the first 50 odd years of it's existence. Even after that, it was only vaguely referred too and not instituted - until the 1970s. The Waitangi Tribunal was set up specifically to address this 'oversight'. If I signed an agreement with you, say that I would lease your house but you would still have a say over any changes made to the property, and then I ignored that for 50 years and put up (for arguments sake) an 8 foot corrugated iron fence with barbed wire and security cameras - would that feel fair to you?

The treaty gives British folks (and other subjects of her majesty) a genuine right to be in New Zealand - or it would had the contract been honoured. People of the land? Well, that's not what British people call themselves in the UK. Why is it so important to consider yourself that here? People of the Treaty? Why not - it validates our place. Of course all you other folks need to ask the Crown why the thought they had the right to offer visas, etc. because the Treaty only signs over rights to subjects of the British monarchy. :bleh:

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 17:56

I am of german decent however I am Tangata whenua...I am of this Land

Being a wigga you'll fit right in with these guys here.

http://www.imsogangsta.org/gangsta/1202/-gangsta-1328461630.jpg

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 17:56

That's the bit that makes no sense eh... but I can't see why else Maori would claim the land but to protect it.

I'm a Pom, fresh off the boat so I must be wrong and can't join the kiwi club... so you're well within your rights to disregard anything I say and I apologise for offering unpalatable points of view, how dare I :). Hopefully my kids will be afforded Tangata whenua "status".

If Maori as an organised group were to be proactively trying to protect OUR land, then I'd bright behind them as a group.
However I see it as more of a power play by a certain group of people of Maori decent attempting to gain an ongoing 'income' from the government of the day.

Don't appologise...you're entitled to your opinion and IMO 2nd generation imports that call NZ their home, integrate into Kiwi society and treat it as such are Tangata whenua.

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 17:57

Being a wigga you'll fit right in with these guys here.

Actually I'm a 110kg gent with a skinhead and an extremely proactive attitude.

Oblivion

6th February 2012, 18:03

I hate the sense of entitlement that these Maori have. When will they realise that this is no longer a country ruled by the one race? We have many cultures and races and yet these people still think that they are owed something.

Pussy

6th February 2012, 18:07

I am of german descent

I fucken knew I was on to something all this time I've been calling you a honky!
Just remember that you buggers lost the war.... TWICE! :bleh:

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 18:10

I fucken knew I was on to something all this time I've been calling you a honky!
Just remember that you buggers lost the war.... TWICE! :bleh:

http://cdn2.hark.com/images/000/003/167/3167/original.jpg

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 18:13

Actually I'm a 110kg gent with a skinhead and an extremely proactive attitude.

Just a few minutes ago you were all "Tangata whenua". Could have fooled me.

I hate the sense of entitlement that these Maori have. When will they realise that this is no longer a country ruled by the one race? We have many cultures and races and yet these people still think that they are owed something.

It's because the white people are so scared of speaking out against the Maori for fear of being labelled a "racist". The Maori have the whites exactly where they want them, and if they don't get what they want, they cry "racist" and we're all expected to feel sorry for them.

The only way we can move forward is to have equal rights for ALL NZ citizens, regardless of race. It's not fair to have different sets of rules for different races.

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 18:18

Just a few minutes ago you were all "Tangata whenua". Could have fooled me.

Ahhh that's right, you're a fresh import therefore don't understand the intricacies of being an actual New Zealander.
Look up the meaning of the word(s)....of this land which I am (4 generations).
I also appreciate genuine Maori culture....not the bullshit that most judge it on.

Pussy

6th February 2012, 18:21

I also appreciate genuine Maori culture....not the bullshit that most judge it on.

100% with you there, Chris! It's part of my kiwi heritage that I am intensely proud of. Despite me being 100% Celtic blood.

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 18:22

100% with you there, Chris! It's part of my kiwi heritage that I am intensely proud of. Despite me being 100% Celtic blood.

I knew you wore a frock! :devil2:
BTW...it's rude to point mister

Pussy

6th February 2012, 18:25

I knew you wore a frock!

Nah, man... not me!
You gotta wonder about those Scots wearing sheilahs' dresses, eh?

mashman

6th February 2012, 18:27

If Maori as an organised group were to be proactively trying to protect OUR land, then I'd bright behind them as a group.
However I see it as more of a power play by a certain group of people of Maori decent attempting to gain an ongoing 'income' from the government of the day.

Don't appologise...you're entitled to your opinion and IMO 2nd generation imports that call NZ their home, integrate into Kiwi society and treat it as such are Tangata whenua.

I'll be there too.
Oooooo now that's a can of worms... there are plenty of entities attempting to gain an ongoing 'income' from the govt of the day? not just Maori :).

:rofl:, oh and I don't vote either :shit: ... I hope you're right.

jaffaonajappa

6th February 2012, 18:27

Im looking forward to hearing what Cactus Kate thinks of our lack of generosity lololol.

Hard line right wing blog...not suitable for most of 'us'. But always good for a laugh!
http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.co.nz/

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 18:27

Nah, man... not me!
You gotta wonder about those Scots wearing sheilahs' dresses, eh?

Dunno...you lot all look the same to me :shifty:

Stirts

6th February 2012, 18:29

Nah, man... not me!
You gotta wonder about those Scots wearing sheilahs' dresses, eh?

It's only a skirt if they wear something under them :D

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrgn38010S1qgk4ieo1_500.jpg

mashman

6th February 2012, 18:31

Nah, man... not me!
You gotta wonder about those Scots wearing sheilahs' dresses, eh?

They're remarkably comfy but utterly impractical... tis tricky to smoke, drink and pee at the same time though... so I understand why they wear long socks too

Ocean1

6th February 2012, 18:31

I'm a Pom, fresh off the boat so I must be wrong and can't join the kiwi club...

You chose to be here, in my book that makes you at least as much of a Kiwi as those that didn't.

If you stopped bleating about the evels of money, got a haircut and a real job I'd even be happy about it.

mashman

6th February 2012, 18:33

You chose to be here, in my book that makes you at least as much of a Kiwi as those that didn't.

If you stopped bleating about the evels of money, got a haircut and a real job I'd even be happy about it.

:rofl: cheers... would you settle for 2 out of 3 :niceone:

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 18:39

you're a fresh import

Not that I'm aware of.

Pussy

6th February 2012, 18:39

In the 60s and 70s kiwis used to call poms bananas...
because they're yellow, bent, and come out here in shiploads.

SPman

6th February 2012, 18:40

Everyone has equal opportunities in New Zealand. Some just prefer to pretend otherwise. yeah - but some are more equal than others.......

I think it's about time some of you guys actually did some in-depth research into early (and recent) NZ history - and not the "Shock, horror, headlines de jour" of the papers trying to sell copy, either!
A lot of you are woefully ignorant!

Yep - the Treaty is so irrelevant, that that nice mr John Key is trying to write it out of statutes, - seems the Treaty has an annoying Section, (9), of the SoE Act that forces the principles of Waitangi to be considered in relation to our assets. So, caveats on the assets, mean that the government would probably get a much lower price than it thought (hoped). So, for the 68% of NZ'ers who are against state asset sales, here's an example of the Treaty working for you!

However I see it as more of a power play by a certain group of people of Maori decent attempting to gain an ongoing 'income' from the government of the day. Yep, but they aren't the only ones, there are many groups of Pakeha descent, doing exactly the same thing! John Key and his cronies for one!

FJRider

6th February 2012, 18:41

It's only a skirt if they wear something under them :D

WEAR ... ??? at first glance ... it appears to show NO signs of wear .... :bleh:

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 18:43

Not that I'm aware of.

Oh ok...so does that just make you purely ignorant or mislead...or simply just not wanting to learn about a place that you have chosen to move to?

Kickaha

6th February 2012, 18:47

The only way we can move forward is to have equal rights for ALL NZ citizens, regardless of race. It's not fair to have different sets of rules for different races.

That's pretty funny considering where you come from and what was in place there

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 18:49

That's pretty funny considering where you come from

Yep, despite the fact that I actually agree with him, I did also do the wee's!

Maha

6th February 2012, 18:50

Maoris eh?...:rolleyes:

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 19:02

or simply just not wanting to learn about a place that you have chosen to move to?

I've learned all I need to in regards to how racist people are toward whites in this country.

That's pretty funny considering where you come from and what was in place there

All I want is a peaceful and civilized society for the next generation to grow up in. Apparently that's too much to ask.

Number One

6th February 2012, 19:06

Thank you Maori for the day off each year but quite frankly as a 3rd generation Bulgarian I couldn't give a toss about it all.

It's always drama drama drama and Hone and his ma and friends kicking up a fuss and acting disrespectful towards others while wanting more more more...and as a 'pakeha' type I sense each time that I'm supposed to feel guilty and sorry for my 'privelaged' life...whatever.

Those in need should get some kind of help but here's a question... how much HELP do these rich maori corporates give to their own people? Was reading recently about one of the iwis that is raking it in running heaps of large scale tourism businesses here...do they put back into Maori or does all that money just line the pockets of the already rich privelaged few?

Seriously - I find all this crap hugely devisive and destructive...I also have plenty of maori mates that agree and think that there are those that are genuinely needy and requiring of help but that there are many more that just seem to always have their hands out.

Yawn, back to work tomorrow and we look forward to all the same crap next year and the next year and the next year - there seems there will never be any resolution to it all and still the same old arguments and debates.

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 19:06

I've learned all I need to in regards to how racist people are toward whites in this country.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Karma's a bitch yes?

PS...you're very one dimensional aren't you? I gather you're under 25?

superman

6th February 2012, 19:07

I've learned all I need to in regards to how racist people are toward whites in this country.

All I want is a peaceful and civilized society for the next generation to grow up in. Apparently that's too much to ask.

Whites are over privileged in this country so I don't mind the racism. Plenty of racism is given back in return. Peace is boring. To truly enjoy the good things in life, you must experience the shit things in life.

Indiana_Jones

6th February 2012, 19:08

You must understand that your ancestors were guests on Maori land, as are you today.

So going by that logic Maori are only borrowing cars, airplanes and internet and when/if the crackers leave they'll give it all up.............oh and the Tui beer too....

-Indy

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 19:08

All I want is a peaceful and civilized society for the next generation to grow up in. Apparently that's too much to ask.
Can I bring my black mates? :msn-wink:

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 19:11

Whites are over privileged in this country...

Could you define 'over privileged' in regards to your statement?

mashman

6th February 2012, 19:11

So going by that logic Maori are only borrowing cars, airplanes and internet and when/if the crackers leave they'll give it all up.............oh and the Tui beer too....

-Indy

We all pay for those things and if there were no money in it none of those bits n pieces would be here... but sure, let's have it your way, but icksnay on the beer eh :bleh:

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 19:21

I gather you're under 25?

Yup.

Whites are over privileged in this country

What the fuck are you on about? That is the biggest bullshit I've read on here in a long time. Lay off the drugs and/or seek help.

Can I bring my black mates? :msn-wink:

As long as they behave themselves in a civilized manner then that's fine.

superman

6th February 2012, 19:24

Could you define 'over privileged' in regards to your statement?

Statistically more likely to get jobs than their counterparts of equal qualifications.

Statistically less likely to be stopped for interrogation 'randomly' by police.

Statistically more likely to have a higher wage than others in the same job/position of a different race

Statistically more likely to get a lighter sentence in court than a counterpart charged for the same offence

blah, blah, blah... could go on for ages.

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 19:37

DMNTD

6th February 2012, 19:39

Statistically more likely to get jobs than their counterparts of equal qualifications.

Statistically less likely to be stopped for interrogation 'randomly' by police.

Statistically more likely to have a higher wage than others in the same job/position of a different race

Statistically more likely to get a lighter sentence in court than a counterpart charged for the same offence

blah, blah, blah... could go on for ages.

That's not over privileged, it is simply a case of individuals making a choice to get up and do something for themselves.

Also...a darker skinned person is more likely to get a lighter sentence when in court due to their 'hardships'...from what I have experienced.

superman

6th February 2012, 19:46

That's not over privileged, it is simply a case of individuals making a choice to get up and do something for themselves.

Also...a darker skinned person is more likely to get a lighter sentence when in court due to their 'hardships'...from what I have experienced.

<_< Because your experience is equal to all cases that are put before the courts in this country?

So you're saying the reason a white guy gets paid more in a particular job than a black guy is because the white guy is more hard working not because NZ society is biased into rewarding white men more than other groups?... Whatever makes you sleep better at night, still makes you stupid.

Number One

6th February 2012, 19:48

So you're saying the reason a white guy gets paid more in a particular job than a black guy is because the white guy is more hard working not because NZ society is biased into rewarding white men more than other groups?...

Gawd - let's have the penis versus vagina argument while we are at it too then eh?

mashman

6th February 2012, 20:03

Gawd - let's have the penis versus vagina argument while we are at it too then eh?

don't forget assholes m'kay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 20:04

Katman

6th February 2012, 20:07

So you're saying the reason a white guy gets paid more in a particular job than a black guy is because the white guy is more hard working not because NZ society is biased into rewarding white men more than other groups?

Do you have any proof of this?

Or are you just spouting shit?

mashman

6th February 2012, 20:08

Whites' getting paid more than blacks'? I have never seen this myself.
Get out of the DeLorean Doc.

What about whites getting paid more than women?

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 20:09

What about whites getting paid more than women?
What about women getting paid more than lab rats?

Number One

6th February 2012, 20:10

What about whites getting paid more than women?

And arseholes too - They get paid even more than all the others put together! Well it seems that way in many organisations anyway...

Though now we are off topic - naughty naughty

mashman

6th February 2012, 20:12

What about women getting paid more than lab rats?

shocker... better conditions for lab rats I say... after all they haven't got opposable thumbs for holding bottles so must breast feed their young

bogan

6th February 2012, 20:13

What about whites getting paid more than women?

Or people getting paid more than robots?

Or people with better attitudes getting paid more?

Or thieving bastards getting paid more?

Hmmm, solution for all three perhaps, get people with good attitudes to design hunter-killer robots to catch the thieving bastards, and take payment!

mashman

6th February 2012, 20:13

And arseholes too - They get paid even more than all the others put together! Well it seems that way in many organisations anyway...

Though now we are off topic - naughty naughty

bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... not really off-topic, some of them are just tits.

mashman

6th February 2012, 20:14

Or people getting paid more than robots?

Or people with better attitudes getting paid more?

Or thieving bastards getting paid more?

Hmmm, solution for all three perhaps, get people with good attitudes to design hunter-killer robots to catch the thieving bastards, and take payment!

Excellent solution... so what did the Romans ever do for us

bogan

6th February 2012, 20:19

Have you ever thought about how if you mispronounce the name as white-angi, it's kind of shorthand for "white angst", and that also has a dual meaning, of the whites causing the Maori's angst, but also the angst caused by the 'handouts'. And I think most of all, you get angst towards those who couldn't give a shit at all, hard working Maoris who do not want any handouts; and whites who aren't concerned who owns the land and whether one group gets small privileges, as long as the land is not exploited.

bogan

6th February 2012, 20:22

Excellent solution... so what did the Romans ever do for us

Well if you think about it, a roman chariot is pretty much an early version of the motorcycle, very low horsepower (usually only around 2), and while it has the requisite number of wheels, they are a bit on the piss and make it hard to lean steer, but for some old school fullas who had huge problems with 2 gauls (one large and one small), I think they did alright.

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 20:23

Well if you think about it, a roman chariot is pretty much an early version of the motorcycle, very low horsepower (usually only around 2), and while it has the requisite number of wheels, they are a bit on the piss and make it hard to lean steer, but for some old school fullas who had huge problems with 2 gauls (one large and one small), I think they did alright.

Similar suspension to the Corvette too :eek:

superman

6th February 2012, 20:26

Do you have any proof of this?

Or are you just spouting shit?

Can't be bothered sourcing all of it, most of it comes from pretty typical statistical analysis of NZer incomes.

From a 2004 Study

"The ethnic gaps are also generally widest in education, with 33.6% of both Maori and Pacific employees paid below $12 per hour in education, as against 19.3% of European/Pakeha and 23.1% of those in other ethnic groups. However, Maori in health services also have a high incidence of low pay, with 34% below $12 as against 15.2% of European/Pakeha, 24.7% of Pacific employees, and 12.3% of other ethnic groups."

NZQA 2008 publishing

"The Europeans yearly median income in 2008 is between $25000 - $30000, whereas the
other ethnic groups are between $15000 - $20000 in 2008"

http://www.teara.govt.nz/files/g-23808-enz.gif

ducatilover

6th February 2012, 20:31

What are the differences between European/Pakeha and New Zealnders' and others?

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 20:36

Can't be bothered sourcing all of it, most of it comes from pretty typical statistical analysis of NZer incomes.

From a 2004 Study

"The ethnic gaps are also generally widest in education, with 33.6% of both Maori and Pacific employees paid below $12 per hour in education, as against 19.3% of European/Pakeha and 23.1% of those in other ethnic groups. However, Maori in health services also have a high incidence of low pay, with 34% below $12 as against 15.2% of European/Pakeha, 24.7% of Pacific employees, and 12.3% of other ethnic groups."

NZQA 2008 publishing

"The Europeans yearly median income in 2008 is between $25000 - $30000, whereas the
other ethnic groups are between $15000 - $20000 in 2008"

No shit. Whites are normally better qualified, and therefore have better jobs than Maoris, so of course the pay is going to differ.

superman

6th February 2012, 20:42

No shit. Whites are normally better qualified, and therefore have better jobs than Maoris, so of course the pay is going to differ.

Slowly getting there... so why are whites better qualified?

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 20:46

Slowly getting there... so why are whites better qualified?

Because they generally choose to further their education beyond high school compared to Maori who usually don't.

superman

6th February 2012, 20:46

What are the differences between European/Pakeha and New Zealnders' and others?

Some NZ Europeans don't like being called European/Pakeha and just want to be known as New Zealanders for being born here and ignore their ethnicity. It's pretty much the 'I don't wish to disclose' option.

Katman

6th February 2012, 20:50

Slowly getting there... so why are whites better qualified?

Are you suggesting that Maori don't have an equal opportunity to gain qualifications?

superman

6th February 2012, 20:53

Because they generally choose to further their education beyond high school compared to Maori who usually don't.

Why do Maori generally choose not to further their education? Why do they generally get low marks throughout primary and secondary education?

Is the education system used in this country developed by Maori, or does it come from English history, and therefore those with white cultural backgrounds find it easier to succeed within such a system? Does Maori culture make parents drive children to get to university as much as Asian/Pakeha parents do? Why do the parents not push them to the same degree?

Katman

6th February 2012, 20:58

superman

6th February 2012, 20:59

Are you suggesting that Maori don't have an equal opportunity to gain qualifications?

I'm not necessarily saying the opportunity isn't there, but that a large number of factors contribute to the lack of qualifications they gain.

SMOKEU

6th February 2012, 21:04

Why do Maori generally choose not to further their education? Why do they generally get low marks throughout primary and secondary education?

Is the education system used in this country developed by Maori, or does it come from English history, and therefore those with white cultural backgrounds find it easier to succeed within such a system? Does Maori culture make parents drive children to get to university as much as Asian/Pakeha parents do? Why do the parents not push them to the same degree?

So what do you suggest a Maori education should be like? If they want to succeed in the modern world and educate themselves to a high level and have a well paid job that isn't totally corrupt like a politician, then what education do you expect them to do? If they want to do the same job as a white person then they have to qualify themself to the same level.

Maori people don't push themself to the same extent in terms of education because they are generally less intelligent than white people. They generally don't have the same goals or ambitions as the rest of us, and many of them choose to live a life of crime instead.

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:04

I'm not necessarily saying the opportunity isn't there, but that a large number of factors contribute to the lack of qualifications they gain.

That does not make them under-privledged.

admenk

6th February 2012, 21:05

superman

6th February 2012, 21:06

You're 17 right?

The education system we have has been around for a number of years now.

To suggest that Maori are disadvantaged by it, or don't have the same opportunities from it, is utter bullshit.

You're an old man right? (No I'm not 17) and what does age have to do with this? Was there some magical period you were around that Maoris were getting the same scores in education as whites? Or are you trying to shove what I say into a corner merely cause I am younger than you and therefore what I say should be disregarded due to youth induced liberality?

superman

6th February 2012, 21:08

Maori people don't push themself to the same extent in terms of education because they are generally less intelligent than white people.

Oh... soo uhh... ummm...

Hmm....

:facepalm:

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:10

Or are you trying to shove what I say into a corner merely cause I am younger than you and therefore what I say should be disregarded due to youth induced liberality?

No, it's because you're just spouting some shit you've read in a book somewhere.

Kickaha

6th February 2012, 21:14

You've been on a diplomacy course lately, right? :laugh:

At the Gordon Ramsay school of diplomacy I heard

superman

6th February 2012, 21:21

No, it's because you're just spouting some shit you've read in a book somewhere.

If I spouted stuff from a book it would have been clearly referenced. I am simply stating that there must be underlying effects in society that create over-privilege for whites. Whether that means the entire structure of capitalism is more beneficial to whites, whether it's cultural bias, whether it's societal bias, bias to the ethnic majority etc. It is complete fact in NZ that whites have better chances of gaining good qualifications, having a good job, living longer.

If you think that isn't caused by current NZ society having been created by European history and white colonisation then you are simply another white guy who wants to pretend racial inequality is self chosen.

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:26

If I spouted stuff from a book it would have been clearly referenced. I am simply stating that there must be underlying effects in society that create over-privilege for whites. Whether that means the entire structure of capitalism is more beneficial to whites, whether it's cultural bias, whether it's societal bias, bias to the ethnic majority etc. It is complete fact in NZ that whites have better chances of gaining good qualifications, having a good job, living longer.

If you think that isn't caused by current NZ society having been created by European history and white colonisation then you are simply another white guy who wants to pretend racial inequality is self chosen.

Maori have had 170 odd years to adapt to New Zealand society.

(Note I said New Zealand society - not white man society).

superman

6th February 2012, 21:35

Maori have had 170 odd years to adapt to New Zealand society.

(Note I said New Zealand society - not white man society).

The Aborigines which have had 230 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?
The Native Americans which have had 400 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?

Current NZ society is derived almost completely from European history with little to no Maori input. The legal system is completely European, the education system is completely European. It isn't surprising Maori haven't 'adapted' so well to NZ society.

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:37

It is complete fact in NZ that whites have better chances of gaining good qualifications, having a good job, living longer.

No, everyone has the same 'chance'.

Some might just have a greater desire.

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:40

The Aborigines which have had 230 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?
The Native Americans which have had 400 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?

Don't go trying to place Maori in the same oppressed category as the Australian aborigines or Native American Indians.

superman

6th February 2012, 21:42

No, everyone has the same 'chance'.

Some might just have a greater desire.

If whites have greater desire to do something deemed positive within the culture they created it isn't very surprising is it...

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:44

If whites have greater desire to do something deemed positive within the culture they created it isn't very surprising is it...

Once again, not having the desire to achieve does not make one under-privledged.

steve_t

6th February 2012, 21:50

No, everyone has the same 'chance'.

Some might just have a greater desire.

Giving everyone the same chance/opportunity is 'equality'

The Treaty Of Waitangi promises 'equity' - equal outcomes catered to the needs of the people. This can be evidenced in things like 'Alternative Entry' to studying Medicine, though I'm not sure if I want to have a surgeon operating on me who got there because of his/her race and not because of his/her competency

superman

6th February 2012, 21:51

Once again, not having the desire does not make one under-privledged.

How does a society which makes one group desire education/health/prosperity over another group not create a privileged/under-privileged situation? If you are born into one group, and by simply being born into that group the society you live in will influence your desire for beneficial behaviours within it's construction higher I'd definitely call it privilege.

Katman

6th February 2012, 21:53

How does a society which makes one group desire education/health/prosperity over another group not create a privileged/under-privileged situation? If you are born into one group, and by simply being born into that group the society you live in will influence your desire for beneficial behaviours within it's construction higher I'd definitely call it privilege.

Yeah, well now you just sound young and stupid so I'm outa here.

Pussy

6th February 2012, 21:55

There is some soft-cock bullshit being spouted in this thread.

Winners make improvements, Losers make excuses.

superman

6th February 2012, 22:00

Yeah, well now you just sound young and stupid so I'm outa here.

I am surprised, being that I am a young man and you claim I sound young... :facepalm:

Though I guess it's always best to leave with an insult, bit of a bite before running with the tail between the legs is a good way to assert some kind of ego-driven dominance. There there you haggard old man.

Mungatoke Mad

6th February 2012, 23:42

From the conversations I've had with Maori and Pacifika, that's how they see it, they belong to the land and not vice versa. I can only guess that the reason they persist with the land being theirs, is because if the land isn't "owned" then whitey will claim if for himself... then who's going to protect the land/water?conversations ? Check ya fact's first the word Maori only came to be after after the arrival of Pakeha before that there was only IWI & the only law was the law of Conquest winner takes all/thats how tribes aquiered land worldwide/ :doh:/.Ime sure the dirty Pommey bastards butt fucked a couple of the Maori and Pacifika you have your conversations with but the Majority dont have that same bad Rash on there Butts.

DMNTD

7th February 2012, 05:29

<_< Because your experience is equal to all cases that are put before the courts in this country?

So you're saying the reason a white guy gets paid more in a particular job than a black guy is because the white guy is more hard working not because NZ society is biased into rewarding white men more than other groups?... Whatever makes you sleep better at night, still makes you stupid.

First off, I've yet to see a black Maori,plenty of brown though.
I've experienced enough of NZ's Justice system to know, how about you?

Re white people getting paid more in the same position...I call bullshit (unless they have been there longer in which case it works both ways).

And the last part...lol fuck off ya queer cunt.

scissorhands

7th February 2012, 06:11

Just get everyone arguing then sneak in and clean up the cash

is anybody in?

Then have pussy lefties come in preaching love and acceptance so we can all have the guilts for being human and hating our neighbour.

Berries

7th February 2012, 06:41

At least the rest of the world now understands the day better - NZ twats abroad. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/6373301/Disgust-at-drunk-Kiwis-in-London)

Oh look mummy, another haka.

:tugger:

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 06:58

I am surprised, being that I am a young man and you claim I sound young... :facepalm:

Though I guess it's always best to leave with an insult, bit of a bite before running with the tail between the legs is a good way to assert some kind of ego-driven dominance. There there you haggard old man.

So if the Maori are so underprivileged then how do you explain all those that are highly educated and have succeeded in NZ?

superman

7th February 2012, 07:58

So if the Maori are so underprivileged then how do you explain all those that are highly educated and have succeeded in NZ?

How do you explain all the white dip shits who have fucked up their lives...

Individuality still creates outliers, people who fight hard enough can overcome any societal barrier, and just as easily people can be lazy enough that even when given everything they amount to nothing.

Katman

7th February 2012, 08:00

scissorhands

7th February 2012, 08:11

Thats when autism and Maori comes into the picture!

IE: early British colonial immigrants to New Zealand were probably more autistic than average. leaving behind an unhappy dysfunctional family in old blighty (England) and desiring a new start in a new land. Many puritanical Scottish Presbyterians came here, especially to the south island.
Burt Munroe the worlds fastest indian... he lived in a shed on his own for 30 years and began travelling to Bonneville USA late in life from the age of 60yrs old!! However, many autistic 1850's immigrants found it difficult to marry here (mostly men anyway) and Maori women considered marrying a white male a step up, also many Maori men were killed in fighting, and Maori women were plentiful. White immigrants autism was probably difficult to discern for Maori women, as is the case presently with Euro guys and Asian wives. The bigger picture around this is that Canada, Australia etc..... prolly had the same scenario...
The major downside of all this is that todays ethnic offspring have disorders inherited by previous generations interbreeding with white people running away from autistic families in Europe...

Since full bloods no longer exist, when one judges ethnic cultures on their failings, consider autism from white interbreeding:bleh:............

......time to duck methinks......
_________________

bogan

7th February 2012, 08:40

Just another way out there thought (and pretty on topic this time), but what if there is more to life than money and qualifications? What if the maori culture simply give these less importance than pakehas do. Would kind of fuck over the whole pakeha education advantages and maori laziness arguments wouldn't it :weird:

Katman

7th February 2012, 08:43

bogan

7th February 2012, 08:51

Yeah, it would just leave the over-representation in crime needing explanation.

Perhaps those wanted to swap cultures, but not having the education, to take part in the materialism, they resort to theft instead.

Katman

7th February 2012, 08:56

Perhaps those wanted to swap cultures, but not having the education, to take part in the materialism, they resort to theft instead.

So they don't want their cake but they want to eat it too?

How does that work then? :scratch:

bogan

7th February 2012, 09:02

So they don't want their cake but they want to eat it too?

Exactly, the point I'm making is that it is not some genetic predisposition that they all have. Just an option that a small percentage, but relatively large number (compared to other ethnicities) of them decide to take. Of course those who decide to take such an option, if identified, should be high fived, in the face, with a lawn chair, preferable of stout wooden construction.

Paul in NZ

7th February 2012, 10:04

While I’m not so old I was actually alive back then and accepting that all history is subjective to the recorders stance - In the very (very) early days of settlement in NZ Maori saw huge advantage in having Europeans here and encouraged them as much as possible. It gave access to materials, weapons and knowledge that they didn’t have and early schools set up by missionaries were eagerly attended.

Now without getting peoples backs up. Then Maori were dealing from a position of relative wealth (land). Lots of this land was sold and lots was taken illegally (it’s a fact and it didn’t all happen in the 1800’s either) and eventually they were weaker from a land ownership point of view. During this time Maori were progressively a lot less keen on education.

Its easy to say that’s all ancient history but it does have to be understood to frame the current issue. In my opinion though its not the only issue. For instance my family is not rich or particularly endowed with vast land holdings but we are all reasonably well educated. In a modern industrialised nation land wealth isn’t probably as important as it once was. Certainly the current educational system offers Maori significant advantage in the way of places on courses and reduced entry qualification (last one might be a grave error though as drop out rates are high)

From what I’ve seen now there is not one clear, addressable reason why Maori are disadvantaged or are not as well qualified now other than a cultural one. The point is that culture of resisting education is relatively recent – its NOT a traditional one going back thousands of years.

The biggest issue for Maori shouldn’t be the treaty or asset sales but rather poverty (emotional and financial) and until Maori leadership start leading their people instead of exploiting them for their own gain they are screwed. Waitangi Day is a great opportunity for Maori leadership to showcase the cause but they keep blowing it by living old dreams and allowing trivial protest to destract the media from the real issues....

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 10:05

How do you explain all the white dip shits who have fucked up their lives...

Individuality still creates outliers, people who fight hard enough can overcome any societal barrier, and just as easily people can be lazy enough that even when given everything they amount to nothing.

Exactly. Makes your argument rather redundant doesn't it.

We don't make excuses for dipshits, whether they be white or any other colour, they are just that dip shits.

All people in NZ have the same opportunity as everyone else, the sooner people like you stop making excuses for them the better we will all be.

superman

7th February 2012, 10:11

Exactly. Makes your argument rather redundant doesn't it.

We don't make excuses for dipshits, whether they be white or any other colour, they are just that dip shits.

All people in NZ have the same opportunity as everyone else, the sooner people like you stop making excuses for them the better we will all be.

So you're just saying non-whites have more dipshits than whites and thats why the difference exists?

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 11:16

So you're just saying non-whites have more dipshits than whites and thats why the difference exists?

The fact that most Maori are just as white as I am makes your racist views pointless.

As long as you can trace your ancestry to an iwi you can call yourself a Maori making the use of colour or genetics as a reason makes your points irrelevant.

scissorhands

7th February 2012, 11:45

Exactly. Makes your argument rather redundant doesn't it.

We don't make excuses for dipshits, whether they be white or any other colour, they are just that dip shits.

All people in NZ have the same opportunity as everyone else, the sooner people like you stop making excuses for them the better we will all be.

So your saying there is no such thing as disability:msn-wink:?

Katman

7th February 2012, 12:13

So your saying there is no such thing as disability:msn-wink:?

I hope you're not suggesting that the colour of one's skin should be seen as a disability.

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 12:23

So your saying there is no such thing as disability:msn-wink:?

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11947/12234273.jpg

bogan

7th February 2012, 12:28

So your saying there is no such thing as disability:msn-wink:?

Some might consider not knowing the difference between your and you're a disability :whistle:

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 12:46

How do you explain all the white dip shits who have fucked up their lives...

There are fuckwits from every race. The number of fuckwits per capita from any black culture exceeds that of Europeans. It's genetic.

Just like jack russels are known to be a very high energy breed, and labradors are known to be a good family dog. That doesn't mean that every jack russel is mad with energy, or that every labrador is friendly, but it's a generalisation and the same thing applies to people. We're not all the same on the inside, and black races are more predisposed to crime than European races.

Have you thought about how black African males tend to be a lot physically bigger on average than Asian males of the same age? Those are all genetic differences. It's part of evolution. We (like any animal) have evolved to best suit our habitats. It's the same reason that a rabbit from Siberia is going to be different from a South American rabbit.

yod

7th February 2012, 12:54

There are fuckwits from every race. The number of fuckwits per capita from any black culture exceeds that of Europeans. It's genetic.

Just like jack russels are known to be a very high energy breed, and labradors are known to be a good family dog. That doesn't mean that every jack russel is mad with energy, or that every labrador is friendly, but it's a generalisation and the same thing applies to people. We're not all the same on the inside, and black races are more predisposed to crime than European races.

Have you thought about how black African males tend to be a lot physically bigger on average than Asian males of the same age? Those are all genetic differences. It's part of evolution. We (like any animal) have evolved to best suit our habitats. It's the same reason that a rabbit from Siberia is going to be different from a South American rabbit.

:killingme

This is based on your extensive post-graduate study into genetics and evolutionary biology I take it?

Or perhaps your plentiful expertise in sweet fuck all of nothing.

bogan

7th February 2012, 12:59

There are fuckwits from every race. The number of fuckwits per capita from any black culture exceeds that of Europeans. It's genetic.

Just like jack russels are known to be a very high energy breed, and labradors are known to be a good family dog. That doesn't mean that every jack russel is mad with energy, or that every labrador is friendly, but it's a generalisation and the same thing applies to people. We're not all the same on the inside, and black races are more predisposed to crime than European races.

Have you thought about how black African males tend to be a lot physically bigger on average than Asian males of the same age? Those are all genetic differences. It's part of evolution. We (like any animal) have evolved to best suit our habitats. It's the same reason that a rabbit from Siberia is going to be different from a South American rabbit.

Ah yes, the 'theiving bastard' genome, two down from the hairy crack genome, and three up from the 'racist bastard' genome right? It's a good thing I got a discount deal on mine, switched em all off after the hairy crack one, just goes downhill from there.

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 13:01

Ah yes, the 'theiving bastard' genome, two down from the hairy crack genome, and three up from the 'racist bastard' genome right? It's a good thing I got a discount deal on mine, switched em all off after the hairy crack one, just goes downhill from there.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bogan again.

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 13:10

:killingme

This is based on your extensive post-graduate study into genetics and evolutionary biology I take it?

Or perhaps your plentiful expertise in sweet fuck all of nothing.

Prove me wrong.

Laava

7th February 2012, 13:27

It's the same reason that a rabbit from Siberia is going to be different from a South American rabbit.

This guy knows his fuckin' rabbits by gum!

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 13:37

Prove me wrong.

One species of human.
Homo sapiens

21 species of rabbit in 8 family groups.
AGenus Pentalagus
Amami Rabbit/Ryūkyū Rabbit, Pentalagus furnessi
Genus Bunolagus
Bushman Rabbit, Bunolagus monticularis
Genus Nesolagus
Sumatran Striped Rabbit, Nesolagus netscheri
Annamite Striped Rabbit, Nesolagus timminsi
Genus Romerolagus
Volcano Rabbit, Romerolagus diazi
Genus Brachylagus
Pygmy Rabbit, Brachylagus idahoensis
Genus Sylvilagus
Forest Rabbit, Sylvilagus brasiliensis
Dice's Cottontail, Sylvilagus dicei
Brush Rabbit, Sylvilagus bachmani
San Jose Brush Rabbit, Sylvilagus mansuetus
Swamp Rabbit, Sylvilagus aquaticus
Marsh Rabbit, Sylvilagus palustris
Eastern Cottontail, Sylvilagus floridanus
New England Cottontail, Sylvilagus transitionalis
Mountain Cottontail, Sylvilagus nuttallii
Desert Cottontail, Sylvilagus audubonii
Omilteme Cottontail, Sylvilagus insonus
Mexican Cottontail, Sylvilagus cunicularis
Tres Marias Rabbit, Sylvilagus graysoni
Genus Oryctolagus
European Rabbit, Oryctolagus cuniculus
Genus Poelagus
Central African Rabbit, Poelagus marjorita

And there are no Siberian or south american rabbits either.

yod

7th February 2012, 13:38

Prove me wrong.

I'll take that as a "No, I have no idea what I'm talking about."

Easy being racist isn't it?

Why not try some actual LEARNING rather than clinging to utterly ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic stereotypes.

How about making an effort to understand the concept, implications and long term societal manifestations of cultural marginalisation.

Or understanding fundamental cultural differences rather than just judging the world by the manner in which you exist.

Seriously, instead of spouting your standard hateful rhetoric all the time, why not try a little educated insight for a change. Scared of what you might find out?

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 13:42

I'll take that as a "No, I have no idea what I'm talking about."

You clearly don't if you think we're all the same.

yod

7th February 2012, 13:50

You clearly don't if you think we're all the same.

It's patently obvious you don't actually know much about it and yet you're incredibly 'vocal' (behind a keyboard, of course) when the opportunity arises.

I ask you again, why don't you educate yourself rather than stick to the racist party-line?

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 13:52

I ask you again, why don't you educate yourself rather than stick to the racist party-line?

I have educated myself on the matter. You clearly haven't. You could make a good start by practising what you preach.

yod

7th February 2012, 13:56

I have educated myself on the matter.

How, exactly?

bogan

7th February 2012, 13:59

How, exactly?

First half of American History X, it has history in the title so it must be a true doco right?

Laava

7th February 2012, 14:05

I have educated myself on the matter. You clearly haven't. You could make a good start by practising what you preach.

Speaking of which, have you been listening to this guy? Would explain a lot.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/6109220.bin

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 14:19

How, exactly?

I do enough of my own research to make up my own mind and not believe all the anti white propaganda that the blacks and jews all want us to believe.

Speaking of which, have you been listening to this guy? Would explain a lot.

I wouldn't listen to a word that comes out of that guys mouth.

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 14:33

I do enough of my own research to make up my own mind and not believe all the anti white propaganda that the blacks and jews all want us to believe.

I wouldn't listen to a word that comes out of that guys mouth.

So you think you are genetically superior to any other race because you are white?

jasonu

7th February 2012, 15:05

Some NZ Europeans don't like being called European/Pakeha and just want to be known as New Zealanders for being born here and ignore their ethnicity. It's pretty much the 'I don't wish to disclose' option.

No it's not. It is the 'I was born in New Zealand so therefore I am a New Zealander' option.
One rule for all.

ducatilover

7th February 2012, 15:11

So you think you are genetically superior to any other race because you are white?

That'd just be silly wouldn't it?

BoristheBiter

7th February 2012, 15:13

That'd just be silly wouldn't it?

I/we know the answer but I would truly like to hear what he thinks.

ducatilover

7th February 2012, 15:14

I/we know the answer but I would truly like to hear what he thinks.
Something like "red cars are faster, I have read this extensively and your blue car will crash"

Pussy

7th February 2012, 15:27

scissorhands

7th February 2012, 15:51

I hope you're not suggesting that the colour of one's skin should be seen as a disability.

Why not, the way you think is now considered a disability if your thinking is different

Being dark is definitely a disability if the reactions of others cause you to suffer. ie racism....

I never ever thought I was disabled, never. Fairly successful at most things, excellent at sports, could pull girls, never considered myself defective.

My issues with communication I put down to many reasons, none of them correct till I imputed autistic behaviours

Yet here I am, looking downward with sunnies on, avoiding a world that reacts badly to me

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 16:26

So you think you are genetically superior to any other race because you are white?

That'd just be silly wouldn't it?

I/we know the answer but I would truly like to hear what he thinks.

I won't feed the trolls this time round.

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2012, 16:28

if the land isn't "owned" then whitey will claim if for himself... then who's going to protect the land/water?

THAT is funny. Have you not noticed who does most of the rape of our sea beds? I'll give you a clue. It normally ain't old 'Whitey'.

mashman

7th February 2012, 16:55

THAT is funny. Have you not noticed who does most of the rape of our sea beds? I'll give you a clue. It normally ain't old 'Whitey'.

True, whitey owns the boats and the processing plants and pays shit wages :)

Pussy

7th February 2012, 16:59

THAT is funny. Have you not noticed who does most of the rape of our sea beds? I'll give you a clue.

It'll be those pommy bastards.

Maha

7th February 2012, 17:00

It'll be those pommy bastards.

Not those coloured pommy bastards?..they are only good for running and playing outside centre.

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 17:06

True, whitey owns the boats and the processing plants and pays shit wages :)

No, it's the Asians who own the fishing boats and the Maori sell their fishing quotas to those Asians.

scissorhands

7th February 2012, 17:18

Well, at least Waitangi Day is an opportunity for racists on both, or 'all' sides of the fence to get together:weird:

I find it all quite amusing

Kickaha

7th February 2012, 17:35

I do enough of my own research to make up my own mind

Where abouts? On Stormfront?

mashman

7th February 2012, 17:36

It'll be those pommy bastards.

Nah, the poms are a great breed, it's when they're diluted with Kiwi blood and culture that the problems start

Pussy

7th February 2012, 17:37

Nah, the poms are a great breed, it's when they're diluted with Kiwi blood and culture that the problems start

We could always tell when a plane load of poms had arrived. Even when the engines were shut down, it was still whining.

mashman

7th February 2012, 17:41

We could always tell when a plane load of poms had arrived. Even when the engines were shut down, it was still whining.

That's just the pilot who has spent the whole flight whining about poms still harping on about us... probably a pilot trait :bleh:

SMOKEU

7th February 2012, 17:58

Where abouts? On Stormfront?

Among others.

Number One

11th February 2012, 17:52

The fact that most Maori are just as white as I am makes your racist views pointless.

As long as you can trace your ancestry to an iwi you can call yourself a Maori making the use of colour or genetics as a reason makes your points irrelevant.

Giving everyone the same chance/opportunity is 'equality'

The Treaty Of Waitangi promises 'equity' - equal outcomes catered to the needs of the people. This can be evidenced in things like 'Alternative Entry' to studying Medicine, though I'm not sure if I want to have a surgeon operating on me who got there because of his/her race and not because of his/her competency

A fecking MEN to both of these chaps points.

This thread is hysterically pointless each and every year but now and then a few people hit the nail on the head I reckon!

And someone else - whom I've lost the post from said - what are maori leadership doing to HELP their people? Other than traipsing around buying up tourism hotspots to line their rich mates pockets with gold and stirring it up on Waitangi day.

TBH I'm completely over the haka too now, sick to death of seeing it every bloody where performed by any bloody person who happens to know the words - geez my kid knew it at two and I am not maori...the culture isn't being celebrated/shared in a meaningful way I think it's just showponied up most of the time.

mashman

11th February 2012, 18:12

the culture isn't being celebrated/shared in a meaningful way I think it's just showponied up most of the time.

surely that just encourages the bastards :shifty:

oldrider

12th February 2012, 08:19

:mega: Waitangi day might develop greater credence if "Maori" would show some respect and "honour the treaty"! :rolleyes:

Bikemad

12th February 2012, 09:32

TBH I'm completely over the haka too now, sick to death of seeing it every bloody where performed by any bloody person who happens to know the words - geez my kid knew it at two and I am not maori...the culture isn't being celebrated/shared in a meaningful way I think it's just showponied up most of the time.

yeah i dont get the Kamate Haka at all.............as far as i know it was conceived by Te Rauparaha, war leader of the Ngāti Toa tribe,while he hid under the skirt of a wahine working in a kumara pit............sorry but i see no Mana in that whatsoever..............if he had stood in front of his pursuers and yelled it at them before fighting with them to his or their death,only then would it carry any sort of Mana IMHO