Has MAG-NZ gone into hibernation?

[kevie]

My impression is they started with a hiss and roar and looked to be a group intent on assisting us bikers to bring a fair deal.... they got the members, set up a website, forums etc

I payed a membership fee to them, registered on the forum on their site .... but whats on the forums???? Its been hijacked by spam, I have on several occasions emailed them in regard to the Moderators failing to clean the forum up and NOTHING ...... no response from them, no cleanup of their site ......... Did I pay dead money to an organization that appears to me that it cant even keep its own nest tidy so makes one wonder how they intend to represent me/us as a biker???
Any MAG administration out there that can answer me?? seems they cant reply discretely by emails so will ask openly and publicly.

Well ... that's my bitch for the day ....... heads off to work as a trucker to annoy motorists>>>>>> :eek:

[Berries]

There are no issues any more so no real need for a riders organisation. Besides, MOTONZ have our best interests at heart anyway.

[sil3nt]

you paid money to one of these "organisations"? :shit:

Don't we have 3 or 4 groups trying to achieve the same thing?

Seems like everyone wants to be boss. Didn't realise they were taking money off people though :confused:

[MSTRS]

Didn't realise they were taking money off people though :confused:

:laugh: Love the subtle irony...

[bogan]

Sorry dude, our really onto it tech guy and leader has got out of bikes, on thus got out of MAG-NZ, which has pretty much been the death knell for us. I had thought there was email forwarding set up, but guess not. We tried to keep it going but with very few active committee members and even few active general members, it really isn't viable imo.

The payment page on our site has been taken down, and paypal closed I'm pretty sure. So it should be difficult for people to throw money at us now.

[Flip]

Mag jumped onto the band wagon and found that the task was going be a lot more difficult and long term than they thought, so after diluting the BRONZ message fucked off and joined up with the other occupy protesters.

[davereid]

Mag jumped onto the band wagon and found that the task was going be a lot more difficult and long term than they thought, so after diluting the BRONZ message fucked off and joined up with the other occupy protesters.

Not really fair.

I know many of the individuals involved with both BRONZ and MAG, and I think its fair to say that everyone was and is still committed to the goal of keeping motorcycling alive and well, regardless of the organisation they stood behind.

I don't actually agree that MAG diluted the message, in fact its my opinion that there is no single message, so there will never be full consensus.

With the massive benefit of hindsight, we can look back at the events around the time of the bikeoi, and possibly say we could have done this better or that better.

But we still did our best.

And many of us are still trying.

[bogan]

Mag jumped onto the band wagon and found that the task was going be a lot more difficult and long term than they thought, so after diluting the BRONZ message fucked off and joined up with the other occupy protesters.

For me, I don't like to blame others from a position of ignorance, not happy with the current representation of the time I was happy to join MAG and get stuck in myself.

We can surely hash over the perceived failings of whatever group we like until the cows come home. But unless it is done with a critical eye for learning from those mistakes for next time there is fuck all point. Blame pointing may make some feel better about their own effort, or lack thereof, but it isn't going to help our situation.

[MSTRS]

For me, I don't like to blame others from a position of ignorance...


Ah, but he does. And that attitude is reasonably typical of most bikers, who want *whatever*, as long as someone else does the doing. Which is why MagNZ has faded away. A few enthusiastic people will get something started, and then be stymied at every turn. And no wonder - who has the time to devote to an unpaid position that 'no-one else' is willing to support, or even actively undermines?

[Maha]

Not really fair.

I know many of the individuals involved with both BRONZ and MAG, and I think its fair to say that everyone was and is still committed to the goal of keeping motorcycling alive and well, regardless of the organisation they stood behind.

I don't actually agree that MAG diluted the message, in fact its my opinion that there is no single message, so there will never be full consensus.

With the massive benefit of hindsight, we can look back at the events around the time of the bikeoi, and possibly say we could have done this better or that better.

But we still did our best.

And many of us are still trying.

He's partly right though..
As time lingered on (and we got over the football talk:shifty:) it transpired that not all MAG members had the same vision of where they wanted it to go.

We all thought we did at the start, but, that wasn't to be the case.
The 'A' stood for action and that was clearly (towards the end, this time last year when alot started to bail) not on the agenda.

[GrayWolf]

I joined MAG (UK) in the 70's.. even over there there were several 'upheavals' in National and local branch levels... It was the leg protectors I'd guess that really got MAG firing on all cylinders, then they went on to organise some huge rallies, I think there were 25,000 bikes at Hyde park, and they had the Magna Carta rally and ride going the same weekend.... sadly NZ do not have the numbers to get that level of numbers involved.

[oldrider]

Representing and organising motorcyclists is probably 50 times harder than herding cats and gathers about 50 times less thanks than the Arabs have given to America!

[FJRider]

.... sadly NZ do not have the numbers to get that level of numbers involved.

And ... those numbers being split, due to New Zealand consisting of two main islands ...

A matter of logistics ...

[kevie]

I joined MAG (UK) in the 70's.. even over there there were several 'upheavals' in National and local branch levels... It was the leg protectors I'd guess that really got MAG firing on all cylinders, then they went on to organise some huge rallies, I think there were 25,000 bikes at Hyde park, and they had the Magna Carta rally and ride going the same weekend.... sadly NZ do not have the numbers to get that level of numbers involved.

I think the BIKEOI proved we can rally the numbers ........ and there's a lot of bikers wanting change but sadly, typical of NZ culture, many many people complain about how things are but very few of them want to bring change.

MAG-NZ was a great concept, started well which is why I was willing to pay a membership fee, I also attended the meetings and volunteered my time to assist with the Manawatu committee..... but as mentioned, unfortunately a couple of the key people they needed on the National level weren't in for the long haul.

I see a mention that in the early stages the UK counterpart also had its share of 'failures' .... maybe if the management of MAG keep the communication channels open, let the members know what support they need and talents are required then it may be able to be the force that was originally envisioned.

Its very easy to blame others ..... but while you point the finger ...... what did YOU do to assist MAG and the other action groups from being a success????
I think the blame (if you really have to blame someone) shouldnt just be pointed at the supposed "management that you might have considered to have failed" but also the individuals that could have, and maybe should have been supporting them!!!

Anyway .... my original purpose of this thread was re the forum being hijacked by dumbass spammers ...... im soooooooooooo tempted to get their email and register it with every porn site on the net I can find LMAO

I still support the MAG concept, Mag the organization, and think while its suffered a minor setback ...... it could ....and should ..... grab its shoelaces and pull itself back up again :)

Don't give up on MAG ........ sit down with the key positive and the constructive people and re-look at where things went wrong, what can be done to rekindle the vision and go for it again.

[GrayWolf]

I think the BIKEOI proved we can rally the numbers ........ and there's a lot of bikers wanting change but sadly, typical of NZ culture, many many people complain about how things are but very few of them want to bring change.

MAG-NZ was a great concept, started well which is why I was willing to pay a membership fee, I also attended the meetings and volunteered my time to assist with the Manawatu committee..... but as mentioned, unfortunately a couple of the key people they needed on the National level weren't in for the long haul.

I see a mention that in the early stages the UK counterpart also had its share of 'failures' .... maybe if the management of MAG keep the communication channels open, let the members know what support they need and talents are required then it may be able to be the force that was originally envisioned.

Its very easy to blame others ..... but while you point the finger ...... what did YOU do to assist MAG and the other action groups from being a success????
I think the blame (if you really have to blame someone) shouldnt just be pointed at the supposed "management that you might have considered to have failed" but also the individuals that could have, and maybe should have been supporting them!!!

Anyway .... my original purpose of this thread was re the forum being hijacked by dumbass spammers ...... im soooooooooooo tempted to get their email and register it with every porn site on the net I can find LMAO

I still support the MAG concept, Mag the organization, and think while its suffered a minor setback ...... it could ....and should ..... grab its shoelaces and pull itself back up again :)

Don't give up on MAG ........ sit down with the key positive and the constructive people and re-look at where things went wrong, what can be done to rekindle the vision and go for it again.

I actually cant see ANY reference to blame being pointed in my post, my comment was there were upheavals, with no reason or accusation being made or given. What did I do? I was a member as pointed out, on the Magna Carta run and protest in Hyde park I spent the whole day from 6am till almost midnight acting as a marshall and 'security' on the rally site. As well as a reglar at the local branch level. MAG UK had similar results to the Bikoi here in many instances, they organised anti crash helmet rides etc but the needed kick up the ass was the leg protectors for ALL levels of motorcyclist in the UK.. All the various pressure groups including FEMA became involved.
I'd agree abuot it pickiong up it's shoelaces and trying again. I'll also admit to being a slack bastard and not even being a current member of Bronz... Guess I have 'old farts' disease (been there done that)...so I'll make the effort to re join Bronz!

[kevie]

Wasnt pointed at our post ... was a generalization of all the posts being made (havent worked out how to multi quote on one reply) LOL ***also has old farts disease *** hahhahahah

[Mom]

Mag jumped onto the band wagon and found that the task was going be a lot more difficult and long term than they thought, so after diluting the BRONZ message fucked off and joined up with the other occupy protesters.

Nice, where were you when we needed help?


but as mentioned, unfortunately a couple of the key people they needed on the National level weren't in for the long haul.


Or simply ran out of steam to keep driving things by themselves.


Its very easy to blame others ..... but while you point the finger ...... what did YOU do to assist MAG and the other action groups from being a success????
I think the blame (if you really have to blame someone) shouldnt just be pointed at the supposed "management that you might have considered to have failed" but also the individuals that could have, and maybe should have been supporting them!!!


Thank you, some of us really tried.


Anyway .... my original purpose of this thread was re the forum being hijacked by dumbass spammers ...... im soooooooooooo tempted to get their email and register it with every porn site on the net I can find LMAO

I still support the MAG concept, Mag the organization, and think while its suffered a minor setback ...... it could ....and should ..... grab its shoelaces and pull itself back up again :)

Don't give up on MAG ........ sit down with the key positive and the constructive people and re-look at where things went wrong, what can be done to rekindle the vision and go for it again.

Cant comment on that, I could never gain good, consistent access to the forum, makes keeping in touch and on top of things really hard. Main thing, one person can not keep things giong without physical support. All well and good saying yeah, yeah, yeah, actually getting your hands dirty is a completely different thing. Look about the place at who was involved with MAG-NZ and who are still actively involved in DOING stuff.

First time I have commented.

[bogan]

I see a mention that in the early stages the UK counterpart also had its share of 'failures' .... maybe if the management of MAG keep the communication channels open, let the members know what support they need and talents are required then it may be able to be the force that was originally envisioned.

Not a bad plan, I was doing this to start off with, but after a few weeks of deleting spammers, and numerous other projects on the go, I gave up. I'm not that web admin savvy, and tbh, I'm much happier helping people out with spannering or safe riding tips. Don't get me wrong, MAG is the sort of place to organise those things as well, but if nobody is watching or participating...

Might re-look at things in a few months after I've finished my thesis, but I just don't have time these days. Think I can hand off moderator/de-spammer privileges if you want to keep it tidy though?

[Flip]

Nice, where were you when we needed help?


Apart from my membership in Ulysses, Bronz and Hog, I helped to organise the COM protest back in the mid 90's, then when the ACC Bikoi movement started I put my hand up and traveled from Christchurch to Wellington early to helpout. On the day of the protest I helped out with the organising and spent the day directing traffic and being security. (Stoney help out here?) I attended both protests in Canterbury, I have written letters, put up posters, made submissions and talked to my local politicans about my objection to the ACC leveys. I can honestly say I have and will continue to do my bit for queen and country.

My issue with MAG was they were a one agends movement, however I would have supported them if they had taken a more beligerant stance. As they never had a strategic plan or as it seemed a clue they were doomed to failure. They were probably more attractive to the younger riders than Ulysses or Bronz and seemed to take the attention of these younger and dear I say more beligerant riders but did nothing with the energies they had. The protest didn't need another Bronz it needed some antisocial protesting to counter point what Bronz and Ulysses were doing.

[Mom]

The protest didn't need another Bronz it needed some antisocial protesting to counter point what Bronz and Ulysses were doing.

And there in a nut shell was what ultimately happened. Please dont paint all MAG people as being gutless wonders, it just takes more than a few to make things happen.

[Flip]

I didn't say they were gutless. I said they were ineffectual.

[MSTRS]

If you want to use that term, bikers, fullstop, are ineffectual in this country. If they weren't, we wouldn't be where we are today...

[Drew]

The government have time on their side. Most groups fizzle out. The powers that be just need to wait, the public have very short memories after all, and it'll all blow over before next election.

How about, one of the groups who think they have our best interest at heart, (intentions aside, power corrupts), align with a political party? Get in there waving 10,000 votes under their nose and see if ya can't get something realistic happening.

I dunno why you'd want to though, you will get lumped in a room with the same fuckin morons who are meant to be trying to make us safer now, and be brain dead like them in a week.

[avgas]

I still sit back and laugh.
If you want to change something, forming a committee to sip on tea rarely will change it for you.
While credit where credit is due, I do think MAG did a good job in getting facts and figures out in the open for bikers to see.

But its as individuals, collectively doing the similar things that got us into this mess. And the same is what would get us out. The Bikeoi showed a few people that such things were possible, but we should have turned up and kept out mouths shut - because many things that were said that day fucked us even more.
Cups of tea, bitch sessions, and group rides will never stop us paying ACC levies - only we on a personal level can make that decision.

[NONONO]

I didn't say they were gutless. I said they were ineffectual.

Whereas, you, are effectual eh?
Pffft!, nuther armchair cowboy.

[Berries]

If you want to use that term, bikers, fullstop, are ineffectual in this country. If they weren't, we wouldn't be where we are today...
Which is where though? I can ride when I want where I want with no restriction on the type of bike I own. I pay more ACC than car drivers but I know that if I fall off I am likely to be more seriously injured so it doesn't really bother me. There is sod all legislation that bothers me at the moment. I'd be pissed if I owned more than one bike, but I don't.

[Flip]

Whereas, you, are effectual eh?
Pffft!, nuther armchair cowboy.

And your comments illustrate why the folks who were organising protests and runs gave up.

[The Lone Rider]

The demeanor of someone I believed to have been taking part in running a division of MAG put me off.

That sealed my disinterest in MAG.

:doh:

I quite often hear from BRONZ people though.

[NONONO]

And your comments illustrate why the folks who were organising protests and runs gave up.
I know I shouldn't but...
Who where these folk organizing protests and runs who gave up due to my comments?
In fact who where these people organizing runs and protests?

[Mom]

And your comments illustrate why the folks who were organising protests and runs gave up.

You could not be more WRONG.


I know I shouldn't but...
Who where these folk organizing protests and runs who gave up due to my comments?
In fact who where these people organizing runs and protests?

I promised myself I would say no more...

[Drew]

You could not be more WRONG.



I promised myself I would say no more...Mom was organising protests and runs, FLAME HER FOR NOT TRYING TO FIGHT THE LOSING BATTLE ANYMORE!!!

By Christ we're a useless bunch. More akin to fuckin pre schoolers, than adults in attitude.

[shrub]

MAG was a good idea but was never going to work because there was too much focus on the ACC levies and it seemed everyone was talking and nobody was listening. There is still need for a serious organisation that represents motorcyclists and works within the system using the same rules as the system to make changes to the system, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.

[Drew]

MAG was a good idea but was never going to work because there was too much focus on the ACC levies and it seemed everyone was talking and nobody was listening. There is still need for a serious organisation that represents motorcyclists and works within the system using the same rules as the system to make changes to the system, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.

Summed up, that's because most "good ideas" types, are not prepared to give up enough of their time to do it. I like to think I have some original thoughts with effective ways to battle the rider injury figures, but buggered if I want to spend most of my free time trying to implement them.

In a lot of cases, (not all, so no one take offense and just assume you're in other categories), it is a particular type of person who does try to do something. I like to think of them as "the bureaucrat" type. Good intentions get them to a position of being heard, and they suddenly run out of constructive things to say. Simply because they are of that psych profile. Politicians are exactly those type of people too.

[shrub]

Summed up, that's because most "good ideas" types, are not prepared to give up enough of their time to do it. I like to think I have some original thoughts with effective ways to battle the rider injury figures, but buggered if I want to spend most of my free time trying to implement them.

In a lot of cases, (not all, so no one take offense and just assume you're in other categories), it is a particular type of person who does try to do something. I like to think of them as "the bureaucrat" type. Good intentions get them to a position of being heard, and they suddenly run out of constructive things to say. Simply because they are of that psych profile. Politicians are exactly those type of people too.

Not really, in the case of MAG I saw the opportunity and spent some time drafting a communications strategy, and it's my job to that kind of shit for businesses, so I kind of know what I'm doing. The strategies I came up with, if implemented, would have very quickly built the membership, established MAG as a credible organisation with TPTB, gained the support of the industry and formed productive working relationships with other allied organisations (e.g. the AA). What needed to happen was for the committee to read what I prepared and give me feedback. From there I was happy (even keen) to drive the implementation of the strategies myself, and I had even been given verbal commitment from some key industry people to support the process with media time, technical resources and even potential funding.

But nothing happened beyond a few "good work" emails, and next thing you know there's great excitement about another big protest ride to Wellington, so I figured that my time was better spent elsewhere. Predictably MAG imploded not long after that.

[NONONO]

Not really, in the case of MAG I saw the opportunity and spent some time drafting a communications strategy, and it's my job to that kind of shit for businesses, so I kind of know what I'm doing. The strategies I came up with, if implemented, would have very quickly built the membership, established MAG as a credible organisation with TPTB, gained the support of the industry and formed productive working relationships with other allied organisations (e.g. the AA). What needed to happen was for the committee to read what I prepared and give me feedback. From there I was happy (even keen) to drive the implementation of the strategies myself, and I had even been given verbal commitment from some key industry people to support the process with media time, technical resources and even potential funding.

But nothing happened beyond a few "good work" emails, and next thing you know there's great excitement about another big protest ride to Wellington, so I figured that my time was better spent elsewhere. Predictably MAG imploded not long after that.

Sorry Shrub.
MAG was never meant to be a safety first organization.
You came in at the end, and bloody glad we were to have you. But the focus on ATGATT and safety was never one that MAG, in any of it's forms was meant to be about.
MAG was/is about, to quote a friend, "Being equal on the road". Oh, and having fun.
Never about, promoting prescriptions other road users don't have to bother with.
Loved your work, just not the message mate.
But I was only a member, just like you. If you had wanted to you could have took it any way you wanted, at least in your area. You could have pushed your case, built your MAG Local, and made MAG-NZ what you wanted it to be, but first you had to build your Local...that did not happen.
No criticism from here Shrub, building Locals is bloody hard graft, but lets remember what really happened eh? Rather than some half arsed memory of the facts.
The one phrase I dreaded when MAG-NZ started was;
"What's MAG-NZ doing about...............?"
I knew if we heard that phrase, we had lost, because it meant the MAG message of organize yourselves and DO IT was lost.
Local Motorcycle Action Groups, taking action locally, mobbing up for regional protests and joining together for national causes..that was what was envisioned. Not committee driven, top down legislative think tanks.
Sorry you were disappointed, but, yknow, we had a go, and MAG-NZ may spring back.