Okay, how about this?

[rastuscat]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

[Kickaha]

Sounds good to me, any chance of back dating that a week or two :whistle: and including cars

Oh yeah where do I send those donuts I owe you?

[The Singing Chef]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:


I love it, much better than just paying said fine and we get something out of it :niceone:

[Ocean1]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.....

Dunno if you can administer it like this, but: Issue the ticket, that makes the associated fine the default outcome.

Hold off on processing the fine for enough time to allow completion of the course.

See if you can work it like a "diversion" set-up.

[rastuscat]

Dunno if you can administer it like this, but: Issue the ticket, that makes the associated fine the default outcome.

Hold off on processing the fine for enough time to allow completion of the course.

See if you can work it like a "diversion" set-up.

Trouble is, if the ticket gets written, it's bloody hard to get rid of. It also removes quite a bit of the flexibility, as it brings in legislated timeframes.

I'm going to try a sales pitch something like "Do the cheap training or you'll get a fist-full of tickets" sort of thing.

I had considered a free donuts for people who do training thing, but couldn't stand the idea of giving away my lifes blood.

[Subike]

Would it be wise to find out first if the training sessions were available ?
I think they are gobbled up rather quickly by interested bikers.

Or would it be worth while suggesting this to your superiors,
To see if they would come to the party and run inhouse training events with your own mounted officers.
As a public relations move, it could be a wise thing

The attitude towards you guys by bikers
If you are seen as actively making realistic safety choices available
could make your life more enjoyable.
If you save but one life, it is worth it.

[schrodingers cat]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

I think it is a bloody good idea. I'm sure a positive approach is useful given all the finger wagging we endure fas they try to get the safety message across.

I've always though it would be a good approach to issue boy racer twats with a 'get out of jail' card if they attended 2 x organised motorsport events (i.e. drags or sprint event)
For one it reinforces that it only takes as long to get to Ruapuna (where there is a racetrack) as it does to get to Sunmer (where they want one.)
It also wouldm't harm them to learn first hand how limited their skills are

Biggest draw back as I see is the need to follow up those who don't go. And also, a lot of folks would just pay the 'tax' than give up spare time

[Ocean1]

Trouble is, if the ticket gets written, it's bloody hard to get rid of. It also removes quite a bit of the flexibility, as it brings in legislated timeframes.

I'm going to try a sales pitch something like "Do the cheap training or you'll get a fist-full of tickets" sort of thing.

Yeah. But if the punter chooses the course and then fails to front I'm picking you've got legislated timeframe problems with retrospectively issuing a ticket too.

I like the idea, but don't make threats or promises you can't keep.

[FJRider]

So ... if the "alledged offender" ...

1. Choses to work instead if attending the course ...
2. Finds there is no course being run in his/her area ...
3. Finds costs to get to/from the course, plus the course cost itself is over the $150 ...
4. Finds the course being run he/she has already been done, or done on a higher grade ...
5. Prefers to take the case to court in the belief they are innocent ...

It wont be held against them.

[mossy1200]

And just like ACC levies someone will claim we arnt paying enough and we will have to pay twice the normal amount for other tickets and 3 times for bikes over 600cc.

[Pussy]

Many moons ago, the magistrate kindly directed me to take a defensive driving course as part of my punishment.
Initially I thought it would be a crock of shit.
I was wrong. I still remember things from that course. I'm bloody pleased I did it.
I reckon you're on to a good thing there, Rastuscat.

[nzspokes]

Would only work if the officer had any idea what they are looking at. How many cops doing this are trained riders?

[Kickaha]

Would only work if the officer had any idea what they are looking at. How many cops doing this are trained riders?

Did you even bother to read what he wrote?

[Tigadee]

Donuts. :Police:

Great idea! I'm gonna support that!

And the scheme too!:shifty:

[nathanwhite]

I think its a brilliant idea, just hard to pull off for reasons stated above :shutup:

[Jantar]

So ... if the "alledged offender" ......
3. Finds costs to get to/from the course, plus the course cost itself is over the $150 ...
....
I'd pay the extra, and even volunteer to help run the course.

[James Deuce]

I'm planning a visit to Rangiora and I'll drop you my Rego and Description, as well as updates on location on the actual dates.

[nzspokes]

Did you even bother to read what he wrote?

Yes and its a valid question. What training do the police get in identifying "incorrect riding"?

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

By the sounds of it, make it nationwide "diversion"

... But hot naked chicks wouldn't go amiss either :shifty:

[Gremlin]

Well, it removes the argument of revenue gathering, and they can choose whether or not to do the training.

Potentially, those that are "forced" into it (because it's the cheaper option) may go in with a closed mind, but as someone above has said, they thought it was bullshit, but remember stuff to this day.

Some moron could come along and say it's slavery, or you're forcing them, but I think it's good for the cop's public image (see, we're not just throwing the book at you), plus people that perhaps clearly need training, get some.

I say go for it (if your superiors don't scuttle it). :niceone:

[Ocean1]

I'm planning a visit to Rangiora and I'll drop you my Rego and Description, as well as updates on location on the actual dates.

If you make all his lights flash he'll shout you tickets to California Superbike School.

[Edbear]

Many moons ago, the magistrate kindly directed me to take a defensive driving course as part of my punishment.
Initially I thought it would be a crock of shit.
I was wrong. I still remember things from that course. I'm bloody pleased I did it.
I reckon you're on to a good thing there, Rastuscat.

I did one at 16 shortly after getting my licence and even today I still drive/ride according to the lessons learnt in that. That was when they were still using the American movies and the instructor had to compensate for the left hook driving.

I personally think a Defensive Driving Course should be mandatory in getting one's licence.

[James Deuce]

If you make all his lights flash he'll shout you tickets to California Superbike School.

Oooooo, I'll add inappropriate speed to the itinerary!

[scumdog]

Yes and its a valid question. What training do the police get in identifying "incorrect riding"?

They look up KB - everybody there knows what 'incorrect riding' is<_<

Bloody great idea oh Great Rodent, give it a good go.:niceone:

[Kickaha]

Yes and its a valid question. What training do the police get in identifying "incorrect riding"?

He is talking about any offence that they can ping someone for, I can't even see that he mentions incorrect riding in his first post where he outlines the idea

[Oakie]

Good idea if you can iron out the wrinkles.

I'm guessing that the ACC training course people may be less than impressed by a plethora of bikers wanting to do the course just to minimise a fine ... but then again they may be delighted.

Could you:
Issue the ticket anyway but have attending (passing?) the course result in you being given a voucher to offset the cost of the fine? Obviously that would all have to happen within 28 days.

(Now this one is a little more complicated so put down the donut for a minute) If you catch someone with an offence that carries demerits could you reduce the fine by the $50 course fee (which they would then use to attend the course) and once attended (passed?) they would receive a confirmation which upon presentation to Police would get those demerits removed. (For me, demerits are way more of a deterent than a fine).

[Icemaestro]

a little bit off topic, but what course(s) does acc subsidy, whats it about, is there much riding involved? I'd be keen to do anything that made me a better/safer rider (apart from driving a tank :niceone:)

[longwayfromhome]

... there is a form of this in the US known as traffic school. Now it's not the same, you are talking about serious training, there it has become a joke and operates at a much lower level of content, even to doing it online! But there are lessons to learn from their experience...
1. It would have to be official and so...
2. When do you say enough, THIS time I am awarding a ticket, and how to enforce that consistently Cape-to-Bluff.
3. It becomes the default first offense 'penalty' and loses part of its shock-tactics effect...
4. It would have to be offerred to cars and bikes... the volume would be enormous, potentially a resource-hungry beast.

Seems to me like a good idea if drip-fed. It would require a lot of control on/at several levels.

[Gremlin]

a little bit off topic, but what course(s) does acc subsidy, whats it about, is there much riding involved? I'd be keen to do anything that made me a better/safer rider (apart from driving a tank :niceone:)
Canterbury is a bit spoilt with the $50 option, we don't get that in Auckland. For advanced (and 1 to 1) training, contact Tricia at http://rcsom.co.nz/ She's a motorcyclist herself, and will initially assess you, then work on whatever you need...

Cost is $250 for 3 hours, the ACC subsidy will give a once off $100 to the training.

[FJRider]

a little bit off topic, but what course(s) does acc subsidy, whats it about, is there much riding involved? I'd be keen to do anything that made me a better/safer rider (apart from driving a tank :niceone:)

I googled .... and found this ...

http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/index.php?page=special-deals

[Oakie]

I googled .... and found this ...

http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/index.php?page=special-deals

That sounds like great value to me. Too good not to take advantage of really.

[blue rider]

How about making an ACC sponsored course (currently at $50 at least that is what I paid) or two part of the legal requirements to get through the licensing process,.

How about making a 'theory' class or two (again ACC sponosored and cheap at that) part of the legal requirements to get through the licensing process.

and invite one of the charming lads and ladettes in uniform to give a quick run through fines and other consequences for a. will full stupidity or b. inbred stupidity?

And one hour of extra training titled "How and When to use an indicator".

This way, the copper will issues tickets when tickets are to be issued. I.e run over granny, loose your license, go to prison, do not collect $.
How hard can it be. life is a bitch, it is full of consequences, and they all cost something. Nothing is for free.

Apply this to four wheels and two wheels, it can only help, and still would not cost the world.

I actually would like to see cops advocating better training, i think that would have a bit more impact.

[FJRider]

And one hour of extra training titled "How and When to use an indicator".

Now THAT's just being silly ... :yes:

A minimum of four hours should be required to get the point across ... :2thumbsup

[Gremlin]

I googled .... and found this ...

http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/index.php?page=special-deals
:psst: He's in Auckland... They're in Christchurch

[blue rider]

Now THAT's just being silly ... :yes:

A minimum of four hours should be required to get the point across ... :2thumbsup

i feel generous?

[nosebleed]

*snip*...
2. When do you say enough, THIS time I am awarding a ticket, and how to enforce that consistently Cape-to-Bluff.
... *snip*

This.
How many goes do I get mister?

[onearmedbandit]

How about making an ACC sponsored course (currently at $50 at least that is what I paid) or two part of the legal requirements to get through the licensing process,.....
I actually would like to see cops advocating better training, i think that would have a bit more impact.


You're kidding me right? He's an active police officer offering a far better option than currently available, and you throw that shit at him? If you want change go lobby your local MP, ranting off at a cop isn't going to achieve anything.

[FJRider]

:psst: He's in Auckland... They're in Christchurch

In Auckland ... they'd be much more expensive ...

http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/index.php?page=special-deals

[Madness]

I think it's a brilliant idea and I've had several instances in the past where I would have been thankful for such an opportunity. What about the quota though?

:msn-wink:

[FJRider]

What about the quota though?

:msn-wink:

With the the great success of the reduction in speed limit tolerance ... the quota target will be revised.

[SPP]

without overthinking it... choice idea!

[Lelitu]

while there have been some issues raised for implementation that would need to be worked out
I think that unless we can change the licencing laws to enforce mandatory training for all vehicle classes
then this is about the best idea we're going to see to encourage people to take up training.

they might even learn something too..

[Berries]

Just issue the ticket(s). At least everyone knows where they stand.

[otter]

I think I would always go with that cheaper option, especially being a poorish student at the moment.

It also depends what the ACC training course is. If it's like defensive driving, then no thanks, I didn't learn much there, I was already riding and had worked out that the only way to stay alive was to ride defensively. HOWEVER if the ACC training involves actual motorcycle riding (on a track would be even better) then I'll be there in a flash.

[Brian d marge]

spam

popo , ping ya , then ping ya moma ... and ya sister to

only thing they understand is donuts

I will be there in march , feeding them donuts , so for at least 2 weeks the motorbicyclist can not worry about the man with the red flag

Donuts , hell of a drug


Stephen

ps , its a damn fine idea

[rastuscat]

Would only work if the officer had any idea what they are looking at. How many cops doing this are trained riders?

4 trained patrol riders. Me plus my 3 full time riders. Yes, we know what we are talking about.

[rastuscat]

I googled .... and found this ...

http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/index.php?page=special-deals

Yup, that's one of the providers I want to refer people to.

Check my other posts, I posted the three providers a few weeks back, coz I want folk to go do the training, regardless of why. Voluntarily is always good.

BTW, I rang the school quoted above yesterday, they've had quite a good uptake. Lots more people will do training voluntarily if it costs less. Funny old thing.

[rastuscat]

I actually would like to see cops advocating better training, i think that would have a bit more impact.

Um, call me a silly sausage, but isn't that what I'm doing?

[rastuscat]

I think it's a brilliant idea and I've had several instances in the past where I would have been thankful for such an opportunity. What about the quota though?

:msn-wink:

The quota isn't a problem. Without wishing to start yet another shitfight, I don't have one.

Go on then, argue that. Again. And again.

[rastuscat]

Right, need to promote it to my boss today, before the ACC funding runs out.

[blue rider]

Um, call me a silly sausage, but isn't that what I'm doing?

What you are advocating is choice, get a hefty ticket or go do training, show me the proof of doing the training and poof away goes the hefty fine.

This will work to a certain extend on some individuals i agree with you on that, but for others it will just be a cheaper option than the fine.

however, have Police as an institution advocating better mandatory training, on every given opportunity will in the end have more impact on the general public.


what you are doing/going to do will have some impact on some where you are, the rest of the countries inexperienced/bad/cocky riders will still have to deal with the law as it is.

I really would like the first responders, the police advocating minimum mandatory training. I believe it will have much more of an impact than hi viz, and a couple of cops saving one rider at a time.

mind, i don't know about silly sausages (never met one actually) but would still offer you pastry for afternoon tea

[trustme]

I like the idea but have a question. How does it get implemented in an even handed manner. Does the recidivist offender simply attend umpteen training courses & never pay a fine or does Popo have to check the offenders record before making a decision.
Good idea , I see the potential for it to be abused by both sides, regretably I am a cynic when it comes to human nature.

[p.dath]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this....

FYI, I help organise free training for new riders in North Auckland, called NASS.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/wiki/North_Auckland_Street_Skills

I got the permission of my local "Strategic Road Policing Manager" for the local motorcycle highway patrol officers to come along and help lend their advice during the training. I think they call it a "2P", part of their public relations functions. The don't come every time, but we sometimes get 1 or 2 officers along.

Anyway, the officers have told me that they have already referred several riders along (that being riders they feel are having basic skill issues) using their discretion along similar lines. In their case though, they are able to come along and see if the person attended ...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

a fantastic idea, well worth supporting.

As Ive said before, I dont care about velocity tax, what pisses me off is the pointlessness of demerit points.

In other news, can you suggest alteration to suspension settings to improve an incipient headshake/twitchiness in certain models of Triumph motorcycle at speeds of 180kph + ? Do they cover that in the ACC course? I'm thinking tyre pressures and or suspension settings, but maybe a steering damper though I dont really like that band-aid type of fix

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yup, that's one of the providers I want to refer people to.

Check my other posts, I posted the three providers a few weeks back, coz I want folk to go do the training, regardless of why. Voluntarily is always good.

BTW, I rang the school quoted above yesterday, they've had quite a good uptake. Lots more people will do training voluntarily if it costs less. Funny old thing.

the big issues will be around implementation: who are the trainers, where are they based, how long do the punters get to get the training and is it achievable in terms of timeframe? Are there trainers available in Gore, Westport, Balclutha, Queenstown, Huntly or Waihi?

Nothing that couldnt be worked thru though.

[Madness]

The quota isn't a problem. Without wishing to start yet another shitfight, I don't have one.

Go on then, argue that. Again. And again.

You may not but I'll bet you half a dozen Donuts that the 3 full time riders do.

:corn:

[cheshirecat]

Excellent idea.
Haven't had the privelige of being stopped over here (yet) but warnings by a couple of UK bike cops in my youth provided timely necessary reality checks and initiated me going on a UK Bike cop course. It consisted of "making progress" during a series of night time rides through fast country roads and villages. Best thing I ever did and saved me numerous times daily when DRing in London. The warnings of being stupid were far more effective than a ticket, especially the way they were said and from another motorcyclist.

[Deano]

I think it is a great idea.

Would you not potentially fall fowl of 'coercement' though ?

E.g. When someone is caught polluting a stream or whatever, we used to write to the offender, asking for our clean up costs to be paid, and implying that if they don't, they will receive a fine. Our legal counsel advised that we could not do that.

But as I said, I think it is a great idea.

[MSTRS]

Great idea. But it should be the whole country. The law and it's application isn't regionalised, is it?

It appears to me to be a form of diversion, which is only offered to first time offenders?
Do you treat any fineable offence in isolation, or decide to not offer because rider X has had a speeding ticket (say) within the last 10 years (say) ?

[rastuscat]

Great idea. But it should be the whole country. The law and it's application isn't regionalised, is it?

It appears to me to be a form of diversion, which is only offered to first time offenders?
Do you treat any fineable offence in isolation, or decide to not offer because rider X has had a speeding ticket (say) within the last 10 years (say) ?

My take on it is a little different from diversion.

If I can get anyone to attend training, their riding will probably improve. I actually don't care if they have had 3 previous tickets, or even 19. Getting them to training is what counts. Even the cynical will learn something, even if they think they already know it all.

The training will be run by three of the local professional riding instructors, through their schools. I'm not a trainer, it needs to be delivered by someone who does it for a job, and that's not me.

Thanks for all the comments to date. I'll keep checking my in-tray to see when the donuts arrive. Not yet :(

[MSTRS]

My take on it is a little different from diversion.

If I can get anyone to attend training, their riding will probably improve. I actually don't care if they have had 3 previous tickets, or even 19. Getting them to training is what counts. Even the cynical will learn something, even if they think they already know it all.



Ok. I see what you believe this idea might achieve. And it seems most here agree with the idea. So....

Pitch it to Paula Rose. Tell her that, potentially, it would save more lives than her pet bullshit...

[Jay GTI]

It is a very good idea and am glad you're taking it to your superiors already.

As per KB, there will be the usual nay-sayers that will disregard the whole idea on the principle of one "clever" example where it won't work, but it will work at least some of the time, so on that basis it is a winner.

It will also help with the ever-diminishing public respect for the traffic arm of the Police (and in fact Police in general) because of the perceived "quota-based" Policing strategies that keep being pushed at us general public types. For clarification, I am very much talking perceived here, as regardless of if there is or isn't a quota, public perception of road policing strategies can be and have been very damaging to the way Joe Public views the work the Police do and the level of respect they are afforded.

This way there is no arguement, you are actually trying to make people ride/drive better and it's very hard for the pesimists to argue it's just another revenue-based strategy.

[Katman]

Pitch it to Paula Rose. Tell her that, potentially, it would save more lives than her pet bullshit...

I think the concept is a great idea.

However, I'm concerned that an effort to get it officially rubber stamped might spell the end of the idea.

[MSTRS]

I think the concept is a great idea.

However, I'm concerned that an effort to get it officially rubber stamped might be the end of the idea.

A clever person would have her thinking it was her idea...

[James Deuce]

A clever person would have her thinking it was her idea...
She's publicly claimed that driver/rider training causes people to be over confident and have accidents at higher speeds.

[MSTRS]

She's publicly claimed that driver/rider training causes people to be over confident and have accidents at higher speeds.

Was she the stupid bint that vomited that crap?
Well, that's another good idea/opportunity fucked...

[FJRider]

Yup, that's one of the providers I want to refer people to.

Check my other posts, I posted the three providers a few weeks back, coz I want folk to go do the training, regardless of why. Voluntarily is always good.

BTW, I rang the school quoted above yesterday, they've had quite a good uptake. Lots more people will do training voluntarily if it costs less. Funny old thing.

I agree ... but such courses, at that location, requires a bit of effort to get to (for me).

I believe such courses should be part on the licence system. And run as standardized courses in all areas. And/or ordered by the courts as (part of) penalty for some infringements.

[p.dath]

She's publicly claimed that driver/rider training causes people to be over confident and have accidents at higher speeds.

I think that was in relation to track based training, but I could be wrong.

[Scuba_Steve]

I think that was in relation to track based training, but I could be wrong.

Na they're against any training that'll teach you proper operation of a vehicle, as apparently that will "create more boyracers"

[blue rider]

I agree ... but such courses, at that location, requires a bit of effort to get to (for me).

I believe such courses should be part on the licence system. And run as standardized courses in all areas. And/or ordered by the courts as (part of) penalty for some infringements.

yes, this,

while i like the general idea put forward by the OP, it is a choice after the infringement has been caused.

We really need to get the training sorted before people hop on a bike or in a car and get it wrong (either because they don't care or because they don't know).

Training needs to be apart of lisencing. And I do believe if minimum training like ACC sponsord safe rider courses are mandatory, they might even stay cheap.....or should be contractually forced to be afordable, available and reachable.

[FJRider]

I am of the belief ... a lot of those that need such courses ... believe they know it all already.

I also see a a few NOOB posts ... to the effect, they want to do a few track days/courses ... so they can go faster ...

No mention about making themselves SAFER ...

[Gremlin]

Lots more people will do training voluntarily if it costs less. Funny old thing.
Simple supply and demand. When it costs lots (for anything), people are more inclined to question if it's really worth it. There isn't really a debate for $50. 3 hours training in Auckland is $250... that's something to think about...


I am of the belief ... a lot of those that need such courses ... believe they know it all already.

I also see a a few NOOB posts ... to the effect, they want to do a few track days/courses ... so they can go faster ...

No mention about making themselves SAFER ...
Ah, but that's all in the delivery. I always say to those learning, don't think about speed, that will come naturally later. Concentrate on lines, observation etc. Hopefully changes their mindset somewhat, perhaps relaxes their focus on speed, as you've said it will come automatically (which it does). The ART days don't automatically say speed, they teach you about lines, setup for corner etc, then the speed comes later.

[george formby]

4 trained patrol riders. Me plus my 3 full time riders. Yes, we know what we are talking about.

Great idea. T'was members of the constabulary that pushed me into further training when I was young & bullet proof.

Try & get it running, if it works then a nationwide strategy would be a very positive thing.

How would officers in cars be able to get involved, though? I have never seen a patrol rider up here.

[FJRider]

Ah, but that's all in the delivery. I always say to those learning, don't think about speed, that will come naturally later. Concentrate on lines, observation etc. Hopefully changes their mindset somewhat, perhaps relaxes their focus on speed, as you've said it will come automatically (which it does). The ART days don't automatically say speed, they teach you about lines, setup for corner etc, then the speed comes later.

I explain it by saying ... it's a years of experience (or more) gained ... in a few hours.

[Swoop]

RC, I think you are on to something here.

Giving a person options of what they want to do (especially when requiring a smaller outlay of their hard-earned $$$'s) should be a no-brainer. I have always emphasised the training approach to our road licencing problem.

Would this be a goer when licences are up for renewal every 10 years? Showing proof that "further education" has happened during that time? From what I have seen and experienced, getting your licence is one thing, renewing it is simply a tax + an eyesight test and nothing more.

It will be interesting what your bosses say.

[george formby]

RC, I think you are on to something here.

Giving a person options of what they want to do (especially when requiring a smaller outlay of their hard-earned $$$'s) should be a no-brainer. I have always emphasised the training approach to our road licencing problem.

Would this be a goer when licences are up for renewal every 10 years? Showing proof that "further education" has happened during that time? From what I have seen and experienced, getting your licence is one thing, renewing it is simply a tax + an eyesight test and nothing more.

It will be interesting what your bosses say.

Education rather than Legislation, oh the joy. May even herald the return of a thick ear. I've been an advocate of on-going training for road users since Benz was a boy.

[been_there]

Definitely has potential....
Nice to see some different thinking on the whole situation :Police:

[GrayWolf]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

Love the idea mate, thats what I would call 'COMMUNITY POLICING'
Arguement against it? Sadly you work for an organisation that has taken the stand that advanced driver training is detrimental to safety as it makes drivers 'overconfident'...... So if you can sweet talk Paula into trialling it? Bloody marvelous!!!

[mossy1200]

I say get the fine AND option of penalty points or training course.

[Maha]

I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

Getting said biker to complete the training within a time limit...say three months?
Or is there already a time frame in place in other regions where this has been trialed?

[GrayWolf]

Yes and its a valid question. What training do the police get in identifying "incorrect riding"?

We have an instructor down here called Andrew Templeton who I believe was/is involved with the Police rider training. If you want to find out just what level of skill police motorcyclists are supposed/expected to attain? Then I suggest you read the 'Bible' The Police Motorcycle Roadcraft book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L180bhYy_1g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3niqkN4u22I&feature=related

[Katman]

Then I suggest you read the 'Bible' The Police Motorcycle Roadcraft book.



Steady on. He failed to comprehend the original post.

What would he make of a 'book with big words'?

[FJRider]

Steady on. He failed to comprehend the original post.

What would he make of a 'book with big words'?

And first explain to him what a Bible is ...

[tigertim20]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

Sounds like an awesome idea! Of course, its a bit dumb if the "something I could potentially write a ticket for" is being 6km over the limit in a 100km zone...
But other than that, how could you really complain? - you got caught doing something wrong, and are given the opportunity to get off the ticket, AND learn a bit more about your bike. sounds like a fucking winner mate!

[rastuscat]

Wooooo hooooooooo :2thumbsup

Agreement in concept from da boss. Just gotta do a (yawn) business plan, but I guess I knew that was coming.

Gotta rope in the local Road Safety Coordinator.

ACC bloke onboard. Tells me that if dosh runs out, he'll just ask for more, so availability of training shouldn't be an issue. Hard to see ACC saying no to motorcycle funding, given the priorities in Safer Journeys etc.

Gotta liaise with the three providers, get their views.

Gotta arrange a sponsorship deal with Dunkin donuts (DOH!!!!!!........already done that, whew).

Looking up team. Come break a law in front of me, and I'll give you the choice.

Tee hee :Punk:

[onearmedbandit]

Wooooo hooooooooo :2thumbsup

Agreement in concept from da boss. Just gotta do a (yawn) business plan, but I guess I knew that was coming.

Gotta rope in the local Road Safety Coordinator.

ACC bloke onboard. Tells me that if dosh runs out, he'll just ask for more, so availability of training shouldn't be an issue. Hard to see ACC saying no to motorcycle funding, given the priorities in Safer Journeys etc.

Gotta liaise with the three providers, get their views.

Gotta arrange a sponsorship deal with Dunkin donuts (DOH!!!!!!........already done that, whew).

Looking up team. Come break a law in front of me, and I'll give you the choice.

Tee hee :Punk:

Awesome news!! Keep an eye out for me, I'm on the, ah I guess you already know.

[Subike]

Now you just need Cant television to do a local docco on it,
and you might find sponcers jumping to assist.
Keep us informed RC,
Im sure there are others here who could help with that business plan if you need help.

[tigertim20]

Wooooo hooooooooo :2thumbsup

Agreement in concept from da boss. Just gotta do a (yawn) business plan, but I guess I knew that was coming.

Gotta rope in the local Road Safety Coordinator.

ACC bloke onboard. Tells me that if dosh runs out, he'll just ask for more, so availability of training shouldn't be an issue. Hard to see ACC saying no to motorcycle funding, given the priorities in Safer Journeys etc.

Gotta liaise with the three providers, get their views.

Gotta arrange a sponsorship deal with Dunkin donuts (DOH!!!!!!........already done that, whew).

Looking up team. Come break a law in front of me, and I'll give you the choice.

Tee hee :Punk:
we need more shit like this man.
instead of the current system of faceless bureaucrats making ridiculous demands like 4km tolerances for a month in a vain attempt to justify the excessive government paycheck theyr receive for bumbling ineffectively through their job descriptions, we need more cops, who are on the front line, using their experiences, knowledge and skills to bring in, apply and enforce initiatives that are actually going to positively affect motorists and their mentality.

Have a donut on me mate!

[swbarnett]

Love the idea.

Worst case some that don't really need it will waste a day on a course. Even then they'll more than likely still learn something.

Best case some that really need it will become better riders and live a bit longer.

Can't really see any negatives.

[Brian d marge]

Love the idea.

Worst case some that don't really need it will waste a day on a course. Even then they'll more than likely still learn something.

Best case some that really need it will become better riders and live a bit longer.

Can't really see any negatives.

yup agree whole heartily , but then who will feed popo donuts , one must speed in order for popo to survive ( think of their children !)

march 20th , will be a donut extravaganza for the po , I will feed you!

Stephen

1 oh FIVE ...........

[Oakie]

Excellent! Let us know when to start rolling thru stop signs so we can have the opportunity to be enrolled. :)
Actually I saw a group of half a dozen doing some training just up from work yesterday. It was a good look and I'm pretty keen to do a course without going through the angst of getting a ticket first. I think I'm a pretty decent rider but perhaps I suck and i just don't know it.

[MSTRS]

... but then who will feed popo donuts ...


Don't get caught being sub-optimal in your car...those tossers will be paying for all this largesse towards riders.
He didn't mention that, did he?
:devil2:

[CookMySock]

Why not just skip writing infringement notices for trivial fundraising nonsense, and go ahead and take people to the cleaners for stuff in the "stupid and dangerous category"?

I am not against the filth heavily leaning on me or my kids (leave the mrs and the goat out of it) for terrible behaviour on the road, and you and I know exactly what that is, but contrary to the seemingly popular opinion of the fuzz and the legal system - people don't like be to arbitrarily targetted for fundraising and being made subject to someone elses' opinions and subsequent fundr, er, enforcement action.

Insanely, you can personally implement this scheme yourself right away!! No red tape, no forms, no checking it with your CO, NOTHING!! Just walk out the door and do it! How hard could it be???

Benefits for the Officer concerned - Firm positive responsible change for families, harm reduction for victims, warm feeling in tummy, self-respect boost for those not bullied into submission by dogmatic govt.

Other than a huge hole in govt revenue, what could go wrong with that?

[sondela]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:


Awww..but I've already done all the courses! Does that mean I just get the ticket? Err..presuming I'd do something that potentially would deserve one..

(What does Mrs. Rastus think about you giving your contact details to all them girl bikers???)

[Drew]

How about make every biker do these courses, and be tested on the content, before they are allowed to ride at all?

Vehicle training (or lack there of) is what I think is the biggest contributing factor of our road toll.

Make every one competent, then really fuckin hammer them when they are caught breaking the law!

[cs363]

Brilliant idea and some good constructive posts (am I still on KB?!)

As Drew said it would be nice to see some comprehensive driver/rider training at the licensing stage, but at least this is a step in the right direction.
Bloody shame your bosses (i.e P.Rose etc.) aren't so enlightened.

Like Pussy I had to do an enforced Defensive Driving course in my early years and like him still remember positive stuff from that course, and just like any course on a subject that you are familiar with and no matter how much you think you know, they always either throw up something new or something you'd forgotten so I think everyone could benefit from this to some degree.
In fact having done the Defensive Driving course it inspired me to do an advanced driving school when I lived in Aussie, so I tend to think this sort of thing might inspire self-improvement in others such as it did with me in my youf.

RC for National Road Policing Boss?

[Lelitu]

How about make every biker do these courses, and be tested on the content, before they are allowed to ride at all?

Vehicle training (or lack there of) is what I think is the biggest contributing factor of our road toll.

Make every one competent, then really fuckin hammer them when they are caught breaking the law!

this is an excellent idea, it should apply to cages too.

[Drew]

this is an excellent idea, it should apply to cages too.Oh hell yes. The system does not currently work very well at all. Everyones dad teaching them how they do it, who learnt from their dad, and so on, and so on. Ever played Chinese whispers?

Capable drivers are safer, and those who don't pass the test, don't get to be in charge of a vehicle. When the re sit their licence after failing, the test should be more thorough to make sure they have actually learnt some shit.

Did you know that it is industry standard for a car having only two tyre fitted, that the new tyres go to the rear of the vehicle? The reason being in part, that although it makes it easier for the car to break traction at the front, it is easier to control than the back stepping out. Fuck that! Anyone who can handle a car knows that you want more grip at the front. It makes the car do everything better.

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh hell yes. The system does not currently work very well at all. Everyones dad teaching them how they do it, who learnt from their dad, and so on, and so on. Ever played Chinese whispers?


No that is the problem, everyone's dad doesn't teach them most people on the road get next to no training we'd be alot better off if the parents took the time to train them but they don't too busy or whatever. I'm not sure I know anyone who's had decent training (other than the couple I've trained) most had maybee a week from they're parents max. As for those I know getting "professionally" trained :facepalm: I NEVER want to see that made compulsory they're the other half of the problem.

I will qualify this by saying cage training

[rastuscat]

Why not just skip writing infringement notices for trivial fundraising nonsense, and go ahead and take people to the cleaners for stuff in the "stupid and dangerous category"?

You might be surprised at how many stupid and dangerous things we deal with people for. It's just so easy to whinge about how all we ever do is write infringements.


I am not against the filth heavily leaning on me or my kids (leave the mrs and the goat out of it)

I haven't visited your goat for several months. Your Mrs either.


people don't like be to arbitrarily targetted for fundraising and being made subject to someone elses' opinions

I wondered why I got so pissed off at some of the opinions on here.


Benefits for the Officer concerned - Firm positive responsible change for families, harm reduction for victims, warm feeling in tummy, self-respect boost for those not bullied into submission by dogmatic govt.

Yup, that's why I'm trying to get the scheme up and running in my town.


Other than a huge hole in govt revenue, what could go wrong with that?

Okay don't write a ticket, loss too the gubbermint, $150. Direct the rider to training, cost to the gubbermint maybe $200 ish, depending on the training. Change in riders skills and behaviour post-training leading to a crash avoided any time in the next 20 years? Probably tens of thousands. Sounds like a good investment to me.

257191

[Drew]

No that is the problem, everyone's dad doesn't teach them most people on the road get next to no training we'd be alot better off if the parents took the time to train them but they don't too busy or whatever. I'm not sure I know anyone who's had decent training (other than the couple I've trained) most had maybee a week from they're parents max. As for those I know getting "professionally" trained :facepalm: I NEVER want to see that made compulsory they're the other half of the problem.

I will qualify this by saying cage trainingThe professional training people recieve, does very little in teaching how to control the car. It is more about road rules and the like.

I want people to learn how to properly handle a car in extreme circumstances. If bikers got some training in this we wouldn't be paying the current ACC levies either. Guy and girls who can't handle a bike when they fuck it ip a little bit, shit themselves and proceed to target fixate and ride stright off the road, make up the majority of kiwi motorcylists I'd bet.

Another quick thought, there are so many people on the road who are ignorant of a lot of laws. Yet they have a licence.

When sitting a licence you are allowed to get two questions wrong. I don't know what the sample questions percentage of the road code are, but I think two incorrect answers probably equates to a possible near 10% of the road rules a person has wrong. Fuck that! (That's my current expleative for showing I'm against something lots by the way).

There are also certain questions in the test that I believe should be flagged for instant failure. Our soon to be done away with rigth hand rule should have been one of these.

[Scuba_Steve]

The professional training people recieve, does very little in teaching how to control the car. It is more about road rules and the like.

I want people to learn how to properly handle a car in extreme circumstances. If bikers got some training in this we wouldn't be paying the current ACC levies either. Guy and girls who can't handle a bike when they fuck it ip a little bit, shit themselves and proceed to target fixate and ride stright off the road, make up the majority of kiwi motorcylists I'd bet.


Yet this is also a problem as the proper training is exactly the sort of training the Govt WON'T support, we as bikers are somewhat lucky in that because the Govt don't care about us the training sponsored by ACC is actually a proper decent training, so we should probably make use of it before the Govt works out what they are sponsoring & stops it. As for cages the Govt will never sponsor proper training as it'll "create boyracers"



Another quick thought, there are so many people on the road who are ignorant of a lot of laws. Yet they have a licence.

When sitting a licence you are allowed to get two questions wrong. I don't know what the sample questions percentage of the road code are, but I think two incorrect answers probably equates to a possible near 10% of the road rules a person has wrong. Fuck that! (That's my current expleative for showing I'm against something lots by the way).

There are also certain questions in the test that I believe should be flagged for instant failure. Our soon to be done away with rigth hand rule should have been one of these.

Yes too many people are too ignorant of the law & the ones put forth in the test centre around laws the Govt make their $$$ from for the most part. Making everyone aware of every law is hard to the point of near impossible especially as they change every year as someone justifies their pay packet. But your right the level of ignorance is unacceptable.
Unfortunately too the NZTA (being as useless as they are) have no interest in teaching people.

[Drew]

Yet this is also a problem as the proper training is exactly the sort of training the Govt WON'T support, we as bikers are somewhat lucky in that because the Govt don't care about us the training sponsored by ACC is actually a proper decent training, so we should probably make use of it before the Govt works out what they are sponsoring & stops it. As for cages the Govt will never sponsor proper training as it'll "create boyracers"

Back it up a bit man, who said the government should pay for it?

Driving a car on public roads is not a right, it's a privilidge. You wanna do it, you pay to learn how!

[Scuba_Steve]

Back it up a bit man, who said the government should pay for it?

Driving a car on public roads is not a right, it's a privilidge. You wanna do it, you pay to learn how!

Sorry I should have said "approve" or "support" rather than "sponsor"

[Drew]

Sorry I should have said "approve" or "support" rather than "sponsor"Fair enough.

I am bothered about all this now that I've given it some thought. I have racked my rather limited cerebrum for any argument to the implimentation of driver/rider training, and I cannot think of one. There isn't a down side. Those who fail to get a lisence will undoubtedly piss and moan loudly, but the silence of countless families who get together every Christmas without tears of lost family and friends will well and truely drown that out.

Traffic flows would be so much better, and public transport more heavily employed. Even the fuckin greenies win!

Why is this not done? How can the millions and millions of dollars being spent on groups of people, who are meant to be coming up with road safety systems not come up with this themselves? I'm not the first guy to think of this surely?

As for boy racers, they need to get their collective shit together. Chip in and hire a lawyer. I say that because the government shelled out moonbeams to provide skate parks, because of the huge number of skaters creating public nuisance. Ergo, a prescident (I can't for the life of me think how to spell that correctly) has been set. Make enough of a cunt of yourself, and they will provide an environment in which you can do it legally.

[MSTRS]

Precedent.

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

[Gremlin]

Traffic flows would be so much better, and public transport more heavily employed. Even the fuckin greenies win!

Why is this not done? How can the millions and millions of dollars being spent on groups of people, who are meant to be coming up with road safety systems not come up with this themselves? I'm not the first guy to think of this surely?
Car makers have billions invested in getting more people to drive. They influence government policy. Car makers want everyone driving, because it means more cars. I absolutely agree that not everyone should be able to drive (because plenty evidently lack spacial awareness).

[Drew]

Precedent.Thankyou.


Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.Yeah, but loads less by volume of road user. It's not possible to do away with road accidents, it's really fuckin easy to substantially reduce them though.

I shake my head every day driving from Petone to Wellington. At the number of skid marks that veer from the middle of a lane, into the barrier. How is it possible to be that retarded? Follow at a safe distance, and apply the brakes smoothly when the shit hits the fan in front of you.

That's just an example, lets not get into debate on exactly what training needs to be given.

[Drew]

Car makers have billions invested in getting more people to drive. They influence government policy. Car makers want everyone driving, because it means more cars. I absolutely agree that not everyone should be able to drive (because plenty evidently lack spacial awareness).The goverment shouldn't give a fuck what the car makers want. If their interest is purely finacial, in the tax they gather from vehicle sales. They would save more than they collect if most road users were safe. Study into this would be very easy to prove, since they already have a specific average cost per accident.

Edit: Most people would still attain a licence, and be buying cars, the few that don't line government pockets by using public transport.

Radical idea, anyone on the unemployment benefit has an instant suspension on their licence untill such time as a job is secured. Not in the name of safety, more social well being.

[Scuba_Steve]

Fair enough.

I am bothered about all this now that I've given it some thought. I have racked my rather limited cerebrum for any argument to the implimentation of driver/rider training, and I cannot think of one. There isn't a down side. Those who fail to get a lisence will undoubtedly piss and moan loudly, but the silence of countless families who get together every Christmas without tears of lost family and friends will well and truely drown that out.

Traffic flows would be so much better, and public transport more heavily employed. Even the fuckin greenies win!

Why is this not done? How can the millions and millions of dollars being spent on groups of people, who are meant to be coming up with road safety systems not come up with this themselves? I'm not the first guy to think of this surely?


Firstly the people that would have to implement it most likely couldn't pass it, they're not about to implement a system they would fail.
Secondly the people in charge have no idea what they are doing and are in no way qualified to be in the positions they hold

[Drew]

Firstly the people that would have to implement it most likely couldn't pass it, they're not about to implement a system they would fail.
Secondly the people in charge have no idea what they are doing and are in no way qualified to be in the positions they hold

I hear ya.

So, we need to find trainers for thirty motivated, single minded, un-self serving individuals, who can work well as a team for a common goal. To teach said freaks to drive and ride like Lowndes and Rossi.

Then gather enough supprot for our freaks to get into a postion of authority, from the masses of people who can see the merrit.

Oh forget it, I give up!

[Swoop]

I have racked my rather limited cerebrum for any argument to the implimentation of driver/rider training, and I cannot think of one. There isn't a down side. Those who fail to get a lisence will undoubtedly piss and moan loudly...
Training. One pet peeve.

I posted on the German driver training system recently and it costs a person a lot of time and money to get a licence there. You learn to respect your licence because of the effort put in to get it in the first place. Also, getting good quality training in the first place (not second hand bad habits from your parent) will set up primacy in learning (doing it right from the outset!).



NZ, get your licence in the Cornflakes packet.

[Drew]

Training. One pet peeve.

I posted on the German driver training system recently and it costs a person a lot of time and money to get a licence there. You learn to respect your licence because of the effort put in to get it in the first place. Also, getting good quality training in the first place (not second hand bad habits from your parent) will set up primacy in learning (doing it right from the outset!).



NZ, get your licence in the Cornflakes packet.I knew I got the idea from somewhere. It was being told about how hard it is in Germany to get on the roads.

Time and money is a a price I could live with, to better my chances of getting home every night. And there is fuck all good argument anyone could come up with for the negative on that statement I would hope.

Shit, institutions could be started under our current education system for driver schools.

Fuck, tag into the highschool cirriculum at 5th form level. I dunno what they call that now. Two or three hours a week for a year. Oh yeah, arsehole that sliding scale shit though. It needs to be pass or fail. Kids would soon take it seriously if their parents wouldn't pay the cost because they don't see it as a good investment and made them pony up for it themselves.

[Swoop]

institutions could be started under our current education system for driver schools.
I regularly wonder about the "professional" driving schools here.
I wish I had a dollar for each time I see driving school cars sitting in the middle lane of the motorway. Fooken unbelievable.
"Keep left unless passing" means nothing to these boofheads who are doing the teaching.

[Drew]

I regularly wonder about the "professional" driving schools here.
I wish I had a dollar for each time I see driving school cars sitting in the middle lane of the motorway. Fooken unbelievable.
"Keep left unless passing" means nothing to these boofheads who are doing the teaching.If there are three lanes of motorway, I advocate sitting in the middle lane unless passing, or preparing to take an exit. The far left lane should be for entering and exiting the motorway.

Just my way of thinking, as this lessens the disruption to traffic flow caused by people trying to merge into a chocka block lane in a short distance.

Properly trained drivers however, would all be taught the same things and therefore any system will work better than the caos we have now.

[James Deuce]

If there are three lanes of motorway, I advocate sitting in the middle lane unless passing, or preparing to take an exit. The far left lane should be for entering and exiting the motorway.


You get pinged for that in the UK. As you should.

The speed limit there is 70 mph. The left lane moves at 70 mph. The middle at 80. The right-hand lane 90-100mph. Depending on whether or not there are point to point measuring speed cameras and then the traffic slows down to 60 mph.

I never saw any merging, entering or exiting issues. You just put your indicator on and someone makes a hole in traffic for you. Overtaking on the left is equated with being a pedophile in the UK.

The standard of driving is hugely better than here, despite what some cynical poms say.

[Katman]

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

True. I believe an attitude shift is the definitive answer. It encompasses the idea that we always have something more to learn, it encompasses the idea of sharing the road equally, it encompasses the idea of aiming to not be an unnescessary burden on society, it encompasses personal responsibility, blah, blah, blah.... (The list goes on).

How we achieve it is anyone's guess.

[blue rider]

Precedent.

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

yes we do, and pretty much for the same reason NZ has raod death.....we also have a saying


stupidity never protected anyone from harm


i have stated before that while i find the idea admirable, i prefer a different approach.

Mandatory minimum training before licenses are being handed out will prevent some death and some damage, not all but some.

training has never harmed anyone .....

[Scuba_Steve]

training has never harmed anyone .....

Here we go, this 1 list alone that has 150 deaths on it from training just search DDT (Died During Training):Pokey: (http://www.flyarmy.org/DAT/DATINDEX.HTM)

[FJRider]

stupidity never protected anyone from harm

training has never harmed anyone .....

Being in the right is never gauranteed protection either ... <_<

Tell that to those that fell off on a track day ... :msn-wink:

[blue rider]

Being in the right is never gauranteed protection either ... <_<

Tell that to those that fell off on a track day ... :msn-wink:

not been there never done that, so got nothing to say to that.

am strictly road......nothing against going in circles fast, I hear its fun, but i prefer to go somewhere....

but being the noob i am I am crediting my being still alive to one on one training and riding with others that mind not telling it like it is.
a helpful dose of your not doing it right has never harmed anyone either.

[FJRider]

not been there never done that, so got nothing to say to that.

am strictly road......nothing against going in circles fast, I hear its fun, but i prefer to go somewhere....

but being the noob i am I am crediting my being still alive to one on one training and riding with others that mind not telling it like it is.
a helpful dose of your not doing it right has never harmed anyone either.

I hope you refer to the "track day" bit ... not the "being in the right" ... :laugh:

Track days are more about going faster safer ... not just learning to race. Usually those at similar levels go out at the same time. :niceone:

It may supprise you how many dont like being told they're "not doing it right" ... :laugh:

[Brayden]

Many moons ago, the magistrate kindly directed me to take a defensive driving course as part of my punishment.
Initially I thought it would be a crock of shit.
I was wrong. I still remember things from that course. I'm bloody pleased I did it.
I reckon you're on to a good thing there, Rastuscat.

Really? I didn't learn jack shit to be honest. It was the worst 190 dollars I've ever spent

Now the roadsafe courses for 20$ however..

[mossy1200]

If you want to make motorcycling safer for all make full riding gear jacket,gloves,pants,boots on the open road compulsory .No amount of rider training is going to slow someone who feels the need to speed down.People travel over the limit from choice and they know they are doing it.At least if everyone has good gear the amount of money wasted on abrasions would be removed.Broken bones cost less to repair than an inch deep section of missing flesh.

[James Deuce]

No compulsory anything thanks. I'd like to see the helmet law repealed too.

[Berries]

If you want to make motorcycling safer for all make full riding gear jacket,gloves,pants,boots on the open road compulsory
No thanks, why not try not to crash instead?

[Katman]

No thanks, why not try not to crash instead?

Hey, there's a damn fine idea.

[rastuscat]

No thanks, why not try not to crash instead?


Hey, there's a damn fine idea.

Nah. It'll never get off the ground.

[rastuscat]

No compulsory anything thanks. I'd like to see the helmet law repealed too.

Might as well. The people who would choose not to wear them have bugger all to protect anyway.

(Ooooooohhhhhhhhh, cutting........)

[mossy1200]

No thanks, why not try not to crash instead?

Its likely most people that crash wernt trying to crash even possible they were trying not to crash perhaps but it still happened.

[James Deuce]

Might as well. The people who would choose not to wear them have bugger all to protect anyway.

(Ooooooohhhhhhhhh, cutting........)

True though.

[Katman]

Its likely most people that crash wernt trying to crash even possible they were trying not to crash perhaps but it still happened.

There's far too many that don't try hard enough.

[mossy1200]

There's far too many that don't try hard enough.

Agree formular is Brain size plus self preservation less self stupidity zone and Ballsack area cubed against motorcycle cc over power to weight ratio against fear of ticket and loss of licence.

I just dont see advanced riders course in that equation.

You have to admit theres to many riders with crap gear causing more damage if in accident than need be, effecting try harder to not die riders reputation and acc levies.Maybe iff we dressed like we wanted to live we would act the same way.Its better than ride like Casey Stoner and Dress like The Hoss in baywatch.

[Katman]

Its better than ride like Casey Stoner and Dress like The Hoss in baywatch.

All too often it seems instead to be, dress like Casey Stoner and ride like Spongebob Squarepants.

[Kickaha]

You have to admit theres to many riders with crap gear causing more damage if in accident than need be

Can you back that statement up with any facts?

[mossy1200]

Can you back that statement up with any facts?

http://www.youclaim.co.uk/Motorcycle%20accident/motorcycle-accident-claim-and-skin-grafts-after-degloving.htm

Im sure you could find alot of records im basing my statments on what i was told by a Welly Ambo driver who claimed a rider goes down in leathers will normally retain his broken bones within his gear but a rider goes down at speed without loses skin,tissue,nerves and the same fractures .Instead of a cast they need skin grafts surgury and pins to retain bones as the open wounds get infected if set in casts or not constantly monitored.Im sure hes prob correct but maybe hes not.

[Kickaha]

http://www.youclaim.co.uk/Motorcycle%20accident/motorcycle-accident-claim-and-skin-grafts-after-degloving.htm

Im sure you could find alot of records im basing my statments on what i was told by a Welly Ambo driver who claimed a rider goes down in leathers will normally retain his broken bones within his gear but a rider goes down at speed without loses skin,tissue,nerves and the same fractures .Instead of a cast they need skin grafts surgury and pins to retain bones as the open wounds get infected if set in casts or not constantly monitored.Im sure hes prob correct but maybe hes not.

So what you're really saying is you have no figures for people crashing wearing inappropriate gear so you don't have any idea what they are costing

[mossy1200]

So what you're really saying is you have no figures for people crashing wearing inappropriate gear so you don't have any idea what they are costing

Correct but you could try grinding a inch deep wound plate size off your left leg then brake both your legs.Then go to a private surgery and tell them you dont have alot of cash but you would like to get at least one leg repaired and could you have a quote for each.

[FJRider]

So what you're really saying is you have no figures for people crashing wearing inappropriate gear so you don't have any idea what they are costing

I would go with ... "A lot more" ... <_<

[mossy1200]

Correct but you could try grinding a inch deep wound plate size off your left leg then brake both your legs.Then go to a private surgery and tell them you dont have alot of cash but you would like to get at least one leg repaired and could you have a quote for each.

I came off in the S bend at Manfield and it cost (visa)me $100 to repair the shoulder in my suit.Again low side on the back of Extended track cost (visa)50 for leathers and 600 for bike repairs.Saving my skin (Priceless)

[rastuscat]

Can you back that statement up with any facts?

Facts? They'd look out of place here.

[rastuscat]

I came off in the S bend at Manfield and it cost (visa)me $100 to repair the shoulder in my suit.Again low side on the back of Extended track cost (visa)50 for leathers and 600 for bike repairs.Saving my skin (Priceless)

There's a good Visa ad.

[Muppet]

I think it's a great idea this training instead of a ticket lark. I find people on scooters need it most, they're simply non-motorcyclists who've found a cheaper way to get around, they don't even need a bike licence if the scooter meets the criteria.

[superman]

I think it's a great idea this training instead of a ticket lark. I find people on scooters need it most, they're simply non-motorcyclists who've found a cheaper way to get around, they don't even need a bike licence if the scooter meets the criteria.

Soon to need licenses though! Some good laws going through to help bring up driver skill this year.

[Muppet]

Soon to need licenses though! Some good laws going through to help bring up driver skill this year.

Yep, I'm just thankful that the bikes of today weren't around when I first got my licence and that I couldn't afford them anyway! I wished I'd been made to do a course though. I believe every new rider should be coached on cornering braking etc You think about it. A teenager with a full licence could go buy a cheap R1 with high km's then take it on a road like State 75 to Akaroa:eek:

[Oakie]

A teenager with a full licence could go buy a cheap R1 with high km's then take it on a road like State 75 to Akaroa:eek:
Shudder ... (in general)

[rastuscat]

The biggest cock up with the licensing system is the moped exemption.

Someone who has never driven a car at all can go and get a learners car licence just by sitting a written test. No motorcycle questions, just car questions. They can then go borrow a mates moped and go riding in heavy city traffic, quite legally.

Bloody dangerous.

My own story is a good example. Had a CB250N to get my full licence on back in the day. Didn't ride for a couple of decades. Luckily I've been on a lot of training courses, just to get to the stage I'm at today. I could have done no training, and gone and bought that R1. Bought a fairly sedate F800ST instead. Too many grey hairs for anything much beastlier.

Anyway, meeting with the City Council, the Popo Road Policing Manager and the ACC bloke tomorrow, to sell my training instead of ticket scheme. Think it'll get off the ground.

[Gremlin]

Think it'll get off the ground.
Power of positive thought... upskilling someone is never a bad idea (unless you think it breeds overconfidence <_<). The lives that could potentially be saved is worth it alone, and it only takes one.

[James Deuce]

Funny thing is, an F800ST would have won every class it entered 30 years ago. With ease. With a novice racer onboard. Our perceptions of what makes for a sedate bike are seriously bent these days.

200kg and 100HP is a Girl's bike in the US.

[Scuba_Steve]

The biggest cock up with the licensing system is the moped exemption.


Yea I'm with you, those things should be banned outright! :shifty:

[rastuscat]

Yea I'm with you, those things should be banned outright! :shifty:

Good God, wot..............we agree? :shit:

[Scuba_Steve]

Good God, wot..............we agree? :shit:

I think we actually agree on more than you think... Isn't that a scary thought :eek5:

[trustme]

Nope , more's the pity. They will make lots of positive noises then bog it down in bureaucracy & process till it dies a quiet death. You will get frustrated & say ' fuck it, I tried but it's too hard ' then quietly fall back into line.
It does not fit the business model.

[rastuscat]

Nope , more's the pity. They will make lots of positive noises then bog it down in bureaucracy & process till it dies a quiet death. You will get frustrated & say ' fuck it, I tried but it's too hard ' then quietly fall back into line.
It does not fit the business model.

Our new Head Popo has changed the business model. He's realigned the mission to hat they are calling Prevention First.

http://www.tenone.police.govt.nz/tenone/January12National2.htm

I'm selling the scheme as a strong alignment to PF. Can't see any bosses being able to oppose it, as that would be opposing PF. Can't have that.

I've been here long enough to have said 'I tried it but it's too hard', but I think this one will fly.

Anyway, it'd be a shame if we just stopped thinking of ways to improve what we do.

[Zedder]

The biggest cock up with the licensing system is the moped exemption.

Someone who has never driven a car at all can go and get a learners car licence just by sitting a written test. No motorcycle questions, just car questions. They can then go borrow a mates moped and go riding in heavy city traffic, quite legally.

Bloody dangerous.

My own story is a good example. Had a CB250N to get my full licence on back in the day. Didn't ride for a couple of decades. Luckily I've been on a lot of training courses, just to get to the stage I'm at today. I could have done no training, and gone and bought that R1. Bought a fairly sedate F800ST instead. Too many grey hairs for anything much beastlier.

Anyway, meeting with the City Council, the Popo Road Policing Manager and the ACC bloke tomorrow, to sell my training instead of ticket scheme. Think it'll get off the ground.

Great idea, best of luck for the meeting.

[trustme]

Our new Head Popo has changed the business model. He's realigned the mission to hat they are calling Prevention First.

http://www.tenone.police.govt.nz/tenone/January12National2.htm

I'm selling the scheme as a strong alignment to PF. Can't see any bosses being able to oppose it, as that would be opposing PF. Can't have that.

I've been here long enough to have said 'I tried it but it's too hard', but I think this one will fly.

Anyway, it'd be a shame if we just stopped thinking of ways to improve what we do.


The very best of luck. Marshall seems to be a more grounded operator than the previous pillocks you have had in command

[Scuba_Steve]

http://www.tenone.police.govt.nz/tenone/January12National2.htm


Look at those cops go, they're just entering warp speed 9 :lol:

[MSTRS]

Our new Head Popo has changed the business model. He's realigned the mission to hat they are calling Prevention First.



You mean he has stolen the model. From the TV program Person of Interest.

[Buyasta]

You mean he has stolen the model. From the TV program Person of Interest.

So he's also going to go around shooting people in the legs?.. Hell, that might just work, I suspect a lot fewer people would be willing to speed if it meant a bullet in the leg, rather than a fine and some demerits.

[oneofsix]

So he's also going to go around shooting people in the legs?.. Hell, that might just work, I suspect a lot fewer people would be willing to speed if it meant a bullet in the leg, rather than a fine and some demerits.

Doubt it. We are continually being told speeding means injury or death and yet still worry more about the :Police: than injury.

[Buyasta]

Doubt it. We are continually being told speeding means injury or death and yet still worry more about the :Police: than injury.

There's a pretty big difference between the speed kills message putting the hypothetical idea that you may crash and injure yourself which would be caused by your own stupidity/negligence/lack of skill (which of course is a problem only other people have), and someone else coming around and personally putting a bullet in your leg, which is entirely out of your control, aside from avoiding committing the crime in the first place.

[Zedder]

There's a pretty big difference between the speed kills message putting the hypothetical idea that you may crash and injure yourself which would be caused by your own stupidity/negligence/lack of skill (which of course is a problem only other people have), and someone else coming around and personally putting a bullet in your leg, which is entirely out of your control, aside from avoiding committing the crime in the first place.

Wot? The cops want to be able to shoot people? Quick, stop Rastuscat from going to that meeting!!

[Buyasta]

Wot? The cops want to be able to shoot people? Quick, stop Rastuscat from going to that meeting!!

Well, I'm sure plenty want to be able to shoot people, after a long day of bad attitude and ridiculous excuses, but I was referring to the TV series MSTRS was referring to, Person of Interest, in which one of the main characters has a definite proclivity for shooting people in the leg... You know, to show that even though he's an ex-CIA wetworks badass, he has a conscience and doesn't like killing people.
Although his penchant for leg-shots is quite amusing, it's a damn fine show that I highly recommend.

[Zedder]

Well, I'm sure plenty want to be able to shoot people, after a long day of bad attitude and ridiculous excuses, but I was referring to the TV series MSTRS was referring to, Person of Interest, in which one of the main characters has a definite proclivity for shooting people in the leg... You know, to show that even though he's an ex-CIA wetworks badass, he has a conscience and doesn't like killing people.
Although his penchant for leg-shots is quite amusing, it's a damn fine show that I highly recommend.

You're sure plenty do want to shoot people? What is the source of this information? Things are getting bloody serious now! Thank God there's TV programmes like Person of Interest to take the edge off.

[MSTRS]

There was a movie a while back (that I never saw and can't remember the name) based on the same premise. Big Brother is watching, can tell who is going to commit a crime BEFORE that person knows they will, and then BB goes out and 'stops' them....

[Buyasta]

There was a movie a while back (that I never saw and can't remember the name) based on the same premise. Big Brother is watching, can tell who is going to commit a crime BEFORE that person knows they will, and then BB goes out and 'stops' them....
Minority Report?

[caspernz]

Funny thing is, an F800ST would have won every class it entered 30 years ago. With ease. With a novice racer onboard. Our perceptions of what makes for a sedate bike are seriously bent these days.

200kg and 100HP is a Girl's bike in the US.

Mmmm, my current bike is like 220 kgs and 95 hp, does that make it a teenagers' bike?

[caspernz]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.


Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
Make sure he/she has all my contact details
Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150


I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts. :Police:

+1 for initiatives like these. Good to hear about PF as well, about time too! :niceone:

[Oakie]

Minority Report?

That was it. I need to watch it again because I fell asleep in the middle.

[James Deuce]

That was it. I need to watch it again because I fell asleep in the middle.

Don't bother. That will happen again.

[rastuscat]

It's gonna happen, and here's how.

We stop you for an offence, and write you a ticket.

As long as the offence isn't too bad, we offer you to choice to pay the ticket, or go do some training at one of the approved providers. ACC subsidises the training, which will cost the individual $50.

The Popo sends details to me, who keeps a record, and advises the local Road Safety Coordinator. The RSC liaises with the individual and the training providers to ensure that the training is able to happen, and that it actually does happen.

The RSC sends confirmation of completion to me, who arranges for the ticket to be cancelled.

Outcome? Dosh spent on training, nil fine to pay.

So there. I hope to have it happening in a week or two. I'll post how it all progresses.

[oneofsix]

It's gonna happen, and here's how.

We stop you for an offence, and write you a ticket.

As long as the offence isn't too bad, we offer you to choice to pay the ticket, or go do some training at one of the approved providers. ACC subsidises the training, which will cost the individual $50.

The Popo sends details to me, who keeps a record, and advises the local Road Safety Coordinator. The RSC liaises with the individual and the training providers to ensure that the training is able to happen, and that it actually does happen.

The RSC sends confirmation of completion to me, who arranges for the ticket to be cancelled.

Outcome? Dosh spent on training, nil fine to pay.

So there. I hope to have it happening in a week or two. I'll post how it all progresses.

and all smiley faces all round, umm perhaps not in Nelson



Orchard St residents are angry at the way the street has been singled out as part of a crackdown on drivers in the area, but police maintain the project is about helping people, not persecuting them.

Residents Sari Robb and Jan Shields contacted the Nelson Mail following an article published last week about the "Operation Assist" project where traffic police were promising to "live in" some streets in areas of high deprivation.

Through a series of random patrols, police hoped to stop every car driven in the area to check drivers had licences, and cars were registered and warranted.

Those who failed to meet those criteria would be offered the option of a ticket, or to take part in the Street Wise driver improvement programme. They would also be directed to defensive driving courses at their own cost. If they did not have a licence they would be directed to a course to help them get their licence. They had to pay to get their licence.

You just can't please people.

Pity the Nelson operation appears to be focused on the tax aspects of policing. Nah that's harsh, licenses are fair game, WOFs only if the car is actually unsafe and a bit circumstance dependant, but rego is pure tax so why force them to do a course that has nothing to do with the offence? hehe time for the 1984 (book) style re-education camps, you must pay your taxes :bash:

[Ocean1]

It's gonna happen, and here's how.

I like it, I'll see you soon.


Briefly.

[rastuscat]

I like it, I'll see you soon.


Briefly.

Right. Ride in a cycle lane in front of me and I'll make you my first case study. 150 or training that'll do you good".............."...um, why not just go do the training anyway..........

[Drew]

Right. Ride in a cycle lane in front of me and I'll make you my first case study. 150 or training that'll do you good".............."...um, why not just go do the training anyway..........Your way is cheaper.

[rastuscat]

Trialled the scheme today, here's how it worked.

Saw a bloke on Gasson St on a big red Triumph. 11 years old but in awesome nick. He happened to be going the same way I was, so I followed him, immediately behind. Thing is, his mirrors appear to be purely for ornamentation. He accelerated too much, weaved across lanes, split moving vehicles, and failed to indicate several turns and lane changes. SHAZAM, thinks I, my first candidate !!

Stopped him some ways down the road, first he knew I was there was when I stuck the bells and whistles on. That's what made me think he was a dream candidate for the Rider Training Inititative (RTI), my pet name for what I'm doing.

Anyway, I handed him the ticket (for not indicating one turn), and the letter saying that I'd cancel the ticket if he completed training with one of the approved providers within 6 weeks. I gave him the brochure with the training providers details, and my business card, so he can get back to me.

Now I sit and wait 6 weeks to see what he does. Wanna run a sweepstake? Here's the options; he pays the $150 (dumb option 1). He defends the ticket (dumb option 2). He does the training which costs $50, tells me, and I cancel the ticket. (option 3)

I'm hoping he takes option 3. The guy in treasury who counts the fine revenue might be gutted, but I'll be stoked. Cool.

:)

[Scuba_Steve]

Trialled the scheme today, here's how it worked.

Saw a bloke on Gasson St on a big red Triumph. 11 years old but in awesome nick.

Now I sit and wait 6 weeks to see what he does. Wanna run a sweepstake? Here's the options; he pays the $150 (dumb option 1). He defends the ticket (dumb option 2). He does the training which costs $50, tells me, and I cancel the ticket. (option 3)

I'm hoping he takes option 3. The guy in treasury who counts the fine revenue might be gutted, but I'll be stoked. Cool.

:)

Is he allowed to do the training at 11yrs old??? good to see your not discriminating based on age tho :Pokey: :innocent:
What about option 4? - ignore the ticket :shutup:

[rastuscat]

What about option 4? - ignore the ticket :shutup:

Yeah, that'll work.

[Oakie]

I like analysing stats and what I reckon would be really interesting would be to track the following by percentage:

> the broad age groups of bikers who take up the offer. Say 16-25, 26-40 and 41 and over

> the genre of bikers who take up the offer. Say all sub 250cc bikes, Jap cruiser style bikes, all other Jap b

EDIT: I would pick the 41plus year old Harley rider as least likely to take up the offer ... but not for the reason one might immediately think of...

[Kermit250]

Have a look at who retired a few weeks back:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1202/S00587/superintendent-paula-rose-retires-from-police.htm

Hehe, guess your plan might just work a bit better now :)

All the best with this, sounds similar to how things are run over in the UK now. Just gotta bring it nationwide here.

[jellywrestler]

Now I sit and wait 6 weeks to see what he does.
So does this mean after six weeks you'll see how he's done then go out and look for someone to issue your next ticket to?

[rastuscat]

So does this mean after six weeks you'll see how he's done then go out and look for someone to issue your next ticket to?

Nah. Gonna load the system with trainees. It's kind of self policing. The sensible ones will do training and benefit. The numpties won't.

[Jantar]

...
Anyway, I handed him the ticket (for not indicating one turn), and the letter saying that I'd cancel the ticket if he completed training with one of the approved providers within 6 weeks. I gave him the brochure with the training providers details, and my business card, so he can get back to me......

:)
So how did he take to the idea?

[rastuscat]

So how did he take to the idea?

Seemed a bit surprised, but seemed keen to play the game.

Hope he does.

[Drew]

Anymore "better work stories" for us coppa?

You've not given us a lot to burn you for lately.

[rastuscat]

Anymore "better work stories" for us coppa?

You've not given us a lot to burn you for lately.

Haven't been at work much recently, taking time off for mental health reasons. I'm riding my bicycle far more than my motorbike, and that's been really good for me. I've even considered getting a 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad tattoo, but that might be excessive.

Mrs Cat would be dark if I did that, and given that she is the highest court of appeal in the land, seems that's that decision made.

[Zedder]

Haven't been at work much recently, taking time off for mental health reasons. I'm riding my bicycle far more than my motorbike, and that's been really good for me. I've even considered getting a 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad tattoo, but that might be excessive.

Mrs Cat would be dark if I did that, and given that she is the highest court of appeal in the land, seems that's that decision made.

That's good, get those endorphins going.

Standby for Animal Farm jokes though.

[newhere]

Im not a details person, but I like the idea :2thumbsup

[Morepower]

Trialled the scheme today, here's how it worked.

Saw a bloke on Gasson St on a big red Triumph. 11 years old but in awesome nick. He happened to be going the same way I was, so I followed him, immediately behind. Thing is, his mirrors appear to be purely for ornamentation. He accelerated too much, weaved across lanes, split moving vehicles, and failed to indicate several turns and lane changes. SHAZAM, thinks I, my first candidate !!

Stopped him some ways down the road, first he knew I was there was when I stuck the bells and whistles on. That's what made me think he was a dream candidate for the Rider Training Inititative (RTI), my pet name for what I'm doing.

Anyway, I handed him the ticket (for not indicating one turn), and the letter saying that I'd cancel the ticket if he completed training with one of the approved providers within 6 weeks. I gave him the brochure with the training providers details, and my business card, so he can get back to me.

Now I sit and wait 6 weeks to see what he does. Wanna run a sweepstake? Here's the options; he pays the $150 (dumb option 1). He defends the ticket (dumb option 2). He does the training which costs $50, tells me, and I cancel the ticket. (option 3)

I'm hoping he takes option 3. The guy in treasury who counts the fine revenue might be gutted, but I'll be stoked. Cool.



:)

I am stunned , sensible policing ! never thought I would see that again .. used to be that way years ago , and before every one goes yes but look at the road toll back then .. well crash a Hillman Hunter or AP5 Valiant at any speed and you pretty much toast , no pre tensioning seat belts and comfy airbags or radials or ... etc etc ... Crashing on Bikes has not change too much though , road still pretty much feels the same now as it did in the late 70's

[imac]

Mrs Cat would be dark if I did that, and given that she is the highest court of appeal in the land, seems that's that decision made.

With ya on that one rastuscat. Mrs Imac and I have an agreement. I won’t get a tattoo if she doesn’t get any article of clothing made of velure. If either of us does then the whole marriage thing is off. It’s worked for the last 22 years

[scumdog]

any article of clothing made of velure.

mmmmm...vellluuuurrre...:drool:

[cs363]

mmmmm...vellluuuurrre...:drool:

With tassles....

[Oakie]

With tassles....

And sequins?

[FJRider]

And sequins?

Don't be silly ... they're for honda riders ... Scummy's a harley man.

[Oakie]

Perhaps a few discrete sequins on his tassles then.

[FJRider]

Perhaps a few discrete sequins on his tassles then.

I was thinking around the edge of his skull mask ... maybe ... :whistle:

[rastuscat]

Anymore "better work stories" for us coppa?

You've not given us a lot to burn you for lately.

I had a burglary late in 2010. My personal favourite road bicycle was stolen. Custom made for me in 1996, it has old school Campagnolo gear on it, all class. Reynolds 853 tubing, made by Jon Foster. If you know the Kiwi cycle indstry, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, yesterday I was patrolling with a new auto number plate recognition vehicle when I saw a geezer riding down Ferry Road ON MY BLOODY TREDDLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I nabbed him quick smart, to find that he was a poor bugger who paid a legitimate price for the bike. He was pretty cool about it when I took the bike as an exhibit, it's now in our exhibit store, awaiting official processing before return to the owner. See, insurance paid out on the burglary, so they now own the bike. I'm hoping I can buy it back, coz I've had it since it was made for me, all but for the 16 months it was missing for.

It's good to be a Popo when you see your own stolen property :Police:

Now, ain't THAT a better work story ???????????:Punk:

[Jantar]

...
Now, ain't THAT a better work story ???????????:Punk:

The better work story still is when you track down where he bought it from and do them for receiving stolen property, or finding out from them who stole it in the first place.

Either way, the poor guy who paid a legitimate price needs to be compensated by the scum who committed the crime.

[Kickaha]

Now, ain't THAT a better work story ???????????:Punk:
The only way it could have been better would have been if the scum that took it was riding it

So the guy who thought he'd bought a legit bike is left with nothing? where'd he buy it from?

[rastuscat]

The better work story still is when you track down where he bought it from and do them for receiving stolen property, or finding out from them who stole it in the first place.

Either way, the poor guy who paid a legitimate price needs to be compensated by the scum who committed the crime.

Have fully interviewed him, he works at a local bike shop. They have a stall at Riccarton Market every week in summer. Last summer a guy approached the stall at the market and asked how much it would cost to fix up this old bike he had just paid $500 for. The bar tape, pedals and a few other things needed fixed/replaced, my darling had had a hard few months. On hearing that it needed a few hundy spent on it the dude just wanted to recover his money, so sold it to the LBS guy for the $500.

Please don't just read this and decide he's a receiver, as believe me, I've spent time on this, out of my personal interest. He is legitimate. We have a faint lead to the bad guy, but even the guy the LBS guy bought it from may have been genuine.

My beef, despite knowing how the system works, is that I really want back the bike that I spent 14 years racing and maintaining, and loving too. Not in a physical sense, Scummie.

Now I'll be having to buy it back. It's worth far more emotionally to me than as a bike, as I've basically moved on. Yeah right. :laugh:

[Fast Eddie]

a good idea, I'v had a cop give me a similar out recently when speeding. Told me to go do a course at mainland driving school and he would wipe the fine. It came under some sort of compliance scheme. He gave me the ticket first and I had 14 days to do course and then present certificate to a cop shop and then fine was wiped.

I enjoyed it, course was cheaper than the fine and learnt some neat stuff

[Fast Eddie]

oh i see we've changed topic to burglaries now..

how are those auto number plate detecting cars goin? when will they make an appearance in dunedin?

[Oakie]

oh i see we've changed topic to burglaries now..

how are those auto number plate detecting cars goin? when will they make an appearance in dunedin?

And will they go 'ping' on an un-registered vehicle?

[Scuba_Steve]

And will they go 'ping' on an un-registered vehicle?

and un-WOF'd, as that is the purpose of them yes :yes:

[Zedder]

Go easy on Rtc guys, he's obviously hurting a bit 'cos his bicycle got nicked etc.

[FJRider]

oh i see we've changed topic to burglaries now..

how are those auto number plate detecting cars goin? when will they make an appearance in dunedin?

Drive around with no rego ... and see if you get noticed. :yes:

Then tell us ... :yes: