Jap bike have no soul?

[R1madness]

Hey ppl. Was reading a few posts this morning and came across 1 saying jap bikes have no soul because they do everything too well and only euros like Guzzi and Ducati and HOGs (yes i know they are from Usa but for the purpose of this discussion lets include them anyway) have a soul. \

I have my own opinion but was wondering what everyone else thinks?

I say: My R1 has a soul but its a little twisted. Sure it starts every time and you could ride it to hell and back in a day but .......... it doesn't like a soft approach you need to teach it what you want and learn how to live with its little nasty traits. Treat it with respect but dont show fear.

sounds like a soul to me...........

Yahoo....................
:Punk:

[SixPackBack]

Europeans do not like to accept that Japanese engineering is at least as good as their's if not better. The claim Jap bikes have no 'soul' is an intangible, and really it is meaningless, as a mechanical device has no soul

And i am English [and proud of it], i am also realistic, bike manufacturers have to work hard to keep up with the japs, particularly when it comes to cost/qaulity/performance......all hail the Japs

[zadok]

No "soul" as such as 'sixpackback' said. If 'soul' means having oil leaks, electrical problems etc, I'll stick with the soul-less Jap's.

[R1madness]

Hi ppl. Yes i know no mechanical device really has a soul but we are talking about the intangible feel that is character "otherwise known as soul".
I am not interested in the religious conatations.
Cheers

[Sensei]

All I'd say is lets see any NON Japanese powerstand past a Jap bike at 200k+ .
Now thats More than SOUL Thats Living !!! I believe they where talking about the sound that the others make mainly than anything else . My GSXR has more than Soul it is Fucking Alive Brothers :motu:

[SixPackBack]

Hi ppl. Yes i know no mechanical device really has a soul but we are talking about the intangible feel that is character "otherwise known as soul".
I am not interested in the religious conatations.
Cheers

Owned A ducati for 30k and jappers for similar periods......both great bike's but no diiference in there 'intangible feel'.......big diference in price and reliability

[Sensei]

Owned A ducati for 30k and jappers for similar periods......both great bike's but no diiference in there 'intangible feel'.......big diference in price and reliability


Yep Owned 2 Ducati's myself but didn't come close to what my Suzy can do in anyway or form . Hear ya about Price Etc .

[Motu]

Jap bikes certainly don't have souls,they are just perfect tools to do the job - but it does happen.A lot of my Jap bikes have developed ''character'',some even having gained a little sentiance - but soul? No,never.

[WINJA]

ONLY JAP BIKE I HAD WITH A SOUL WAS A ZX9 C1

[MSTRS]

My spanners, screwdrivers etc have no soul. My gixxer is just a slightly more refined tool. I think that it is the refinement that gives the gixxer it's soul.

[inlinefour]

I've not had such a good giggle for a while. I don't know about the rest of you but its a motorcycle, no matter what brand or where it is made. How can an inatimate(sp) object have a soul? :weird:

[inlinefour]

Hi ppl. Yes i know no mechanical device really has a soul but we are talking about the intangible feel that is character "otherwise known as soul".
I am not interested in the religious conatations.
Cheers

Yes all my vehicles have a character which is different, slightly another vehicle same year and model. Especially when one customs it one ones own little ways... :ride:

[Ixion]

No soul ? Obviously none of you have ever owned a Kockasucky 500 triple intent on murdering you.

That thing had a soul alright. A black, vile, damned , accursed soul, filled with malice, hatred, and malevolence. Hatred of all mankind, but especially me , and an unswervable determination to kill everybody it could, starting with me. A soul straight from the deepest darkest level of Hell, dredged from the pit of Gehenna.

And what of Mr Ramius's accursed bike ? That must have been the spiritual brother of my Kockasucky. Except I was lucky enough to realise that I was up against something more than mortal and get rid of the monster before it could achieve it's ambition and kill me.

And I'm sure that my T500 has a soul, a gentler more kindly and well intentioned one.

No souls. Pssahw. You haven't looked.

EDIT: I overlooked mentioning Li'l Ratty. How could anyone suggest that he was soulless. A happier, perkier, cheekier little ratta-tat-tat'er never lived.

[Motu]

I don't think riders who always have the latest model and never work on their bikes will find the ''soul'' - dumb word,but I know what they are getting at.It comes for intimintly knowing your bike,every nut and bolt,every flaw,every bit of perfection - until you really know your bike inside and out you'll never find this soul thing....it's just understanding your bike.

[Sensei]

I don't think riders who always have the latest model and never work on their bikes will find the ''soul'' - It comes for intimintly knowing your bike,every nut and bolt,every flaw,every bit of perfection - until you really know your bike inside and out you'll never find this soul thing....it's just understanding your bike.

Nice wording Motu & agree with you 100% After owning 53 bikes of which I have pulled apart some more than other LOL. I Know the roots of each one . Even with my new GSXR this has been pulled down motor & all so no stone left unturned there either . :love:

[erik]

Soul is all in your head. Whether it's real or not, I don't know, it's not something detectable.
I like to think my bike has soul.

[Biff]

Soul is all in your head. Whether it's real or not, I don't know, it's not something detectable.
I like to think my bike has soul.

I'm with you Erik, and with Motu to a degree. To 'imagine' your bike has soul it a truly personal thing. It's the connection between man and machine, the feeling of uniquity, being as one with your machine.

Read Frosty's current thread in the general biking forum. Just about sums it up IMO.

[Madmax]

No soul ? Obviously none of you have ever owned a Kockasucky 500 triple intent on murdering you.

That thing had a soul alright. A black, vile, damned , accursed soul, filled with malice, hatred, and malevolence. Hatred of all mankind, but especially me , and an unswervable determination to kill everybody it could, starting with me. A soul straight from the deepest darkest level of Hell, dredged from the pit of Gehenna.

And what of Mr Ramius's accursed bike ? That must have been the spiritual brother of my Kockasucky. Except I was lucky enough to realise that I was up against something more than mortal and get rid of the monster before it could achieve it's ambition and kill me.

And I'm sure that my T500 has a soul, a gentler more kindly and well intentioned one.

No souls. Pssahw. You haven't looked.

EDIT: I overlooked mentioning Li'l Ratty. How could anyone suggest that he was soulless. A happier, perkier, cheekier little ratta-tat-tat'er never lived.
I still have one plus a ZX10R feel like van hellsing some times
:devil2:

[Pixie]

The original reference to a bike having a soul derives from a misquoted comment from the 1960's.
A biker looked at his dead yank/brit bike,leaking oil,lifeless electrics,and was heard to cry "You faaarkin arsole,I had it wichoo peesashit."before going down to the bike shop that was selling those new fangled Honda CB72's.

[Big Dave]

I think it's all bullshit. Bikes are bikes and you either like Japanese bikes or you don't. It's personal taste - and what you choose to afford.

The most unreliable bikes I've owned were a T140 Bonneville and a GS850 Suzuki.
Jap bikes are good at what they do, but it's 2005 - so are the Europeans and the Americans.

People buy on emotion and justify with logic - they are MACHINES - trying to attribute 'soul' is just another example of justifying.

Europeans are more 'exclusive' (ie not as many of them) and you can park them outside a hard core clubhouse more comfortably. they have better camaraderie and strong Marque clubs. Apart from that....

But I wish some people would stop nervously replying 'oh...(shuffle) it's only a Japper' when i ask them what they ride. (I just 'look' scary OK!)

i don't give a rats - as long as you are a motorcyclist - it don't matter to me....but if you are on a Triumph, we's bruddahs.

[Ixion]

People buy on emotion and justify with logic - they are MACHINES - trying to attribute 'soul' is just another example of justifying.



Ah, tell that to a steam railway engine driver.

Kipling did this well, those stories about that Scottish marine engineer M'Andrew.

There's poetry in steam right enough, and anything with poetry must have a soul I reckon.

[Big Dave]

Ah, tell that to a steam railway engine driver.

Kipling did this well, those stories about that Scottish marine engineer M'Andrew.

There's poetry in steam right enough, and anything with poetry must have a soul I reckon.


Nothing geekier than a steam man, What? And the stripey overall's and twee hat - come on!

I'd still say that yer Kipling is life about, and the human endeavour centred around the machines. Deys still juz machines 'saaab.

[Big Dave]

Kipling did this well, those stories about that Scottish marine engineer M'Andrew.


I read in the obits that he was the model for the recently departed Canadian, Mr Doohan - 'Scottie' in Star Treck.

[R1madness]

Hi ppl. Yes i know no mechanical device really has a soul but we are talking about the intangible feel that is character "otherwise known as soul".
I am not interested in the religious conatations.
Cheers


Like i said ............. :wait:

[Timber020]

Soul comes from interaction, people who have unreliable or high maintainance bikes feel theres soul because they have to do more to nuture it to keep it alive, or nurse it more to keep it on the boil.
All bikes have soul, its about time spent with them.

[SixPackBack]

I read in the obits that he was the model for the recently departed Canadian, Mr Doohan - 'Scottie' in Star Treck.

*pointless interjection*
Kipling was my Grandmothers uncle.....true....pity his mastery of the english language did not rub off on me!

[Waylander]

Hmm, soul? maybe. Definatly has her own character. Have now decided my bike is definatly a female. Mid thirtys in age, and in a 3 month long period. Anytime I treat her wrong she gets upset and starts yelling at me, and when I yell back she just stops and wont do anything. With a little bit of love and a lot of tenderness I can coax her to be happy till the next time I do something she perceives as wrong. Should have heaps of love for her in 3 or 4 weeks. New makeup, a set of earings and a new dress. Hopefully that will end the pms and we can move on down the road in peace. 'Till menopause anyway...

[FROSTY]

well the ol XJ definitely has character. soul--Im not gonna go in to that one

[Zed]

So does this idea of a motorcycle having a *soul* apply when it is switched off?? :weird:


Bad descriptive word but I know where you're coming from...I think every bike has 'character' to some degree, some are downright boring while others can be the life of the party!

[Waylander]

So does this idea of a motorcycle having a *soul* apply when it is switched off?? :weird:


Bad descriptive word but I know where you're coming from...I think every bike has 'character' to some degree, some are downright boring while others can be the life of the party!
I would say so. Latley the thing that drives her crazy the most is if I leave her outside over night. Then she's givin me the cold to me all day and refuses to turn over. I have to tuck her nicely into her bed and make sure she'll be comfortable.

[mstriumph]

*pointless rejoinder*
"Do you like Kipling?" she asked
"Dunno, I've never kipled" he replied..... :whistle:
*pointless interjection*
Kipling was my Grandmothers uncle.....true....pity his mastery of the english language did not rub off on me!

[RiderInBlack]

Well "Roxanne" Certinally has:ride:

[Lou Girardin]

I don't know about soul, but my bike makes me feel good, other bikes make me feel good to a greater or lesser degree as well. But mine is mine. I look after it and it looks after me.

[bungbung]

Have you thought about getting something else?


...my bike is definatly a female....a 3 month long period.... Anytime I treat her wrong she gets upset and starts yelling at me.

[vifferman]

I think every bike has 'character' to some degree, some are downright boring while others can be the life of the party!
You're almost there - the one's without character are bland to the point of definitely being just machines or tools, but it's not just to do with how exciting they are that gives them character. Unfortunately, I'd say most character has to do with imperfections, warts, misbehaviour, quirks, whatever...
F'rinstance, summat that had special ritual to be adhered to before it would start, that sounded cool, that required some real effort to get the best rewards out of would be said to have character. Conversely, a bike that was 100% reliable, very easy to ride, was smooth and comfortable and quiet would have little character in comparison.
Similar to people really - someone who was loud, extroverted, larger than life would generally be described as 'hard case' who having character, whereas someone who was quiet, just got on with the job, kept to themselves, never argued, was never the centre of attention could be described as lacking character.

I've only owned one bike with lots of character - the XBR500RS Mutant. It took lots of effort to keep the thing going, and it never went really well. It was probably one of the crappiest bikes I've ridden, certainly the worst I've owned. But it's the one that had the most character and that gave me more pleasure in some ways than the other bikes.

The reason I've had three V4s and a V2 is that they aren't as smooth as IL4s, and because with an aftermarket zorst they are a bit raucous and snarly. A bit of character, without being unreliable. I've ridden 'nicer' bikes, but they didn't speak to my soul.

[poorbastard]

Hmmm soul maybe but definatly used has a mind of its own, go when It wanted to or piss round at the worst of times.

[Badcat]

well, here i am in 2005 building a bike that has a 1979 engine, kick start only and a rep for breaking ankles.
i love new bikes (have 2x 2004 suzukis) but i yearn for something with character.
either that, or i'm a sadomasochistic dickhead.
hmmmmm......

[mstriumph]

for me, too, this is what it's all about ...
I don't know about soul, but my bike makes me feel good, other bikes make me feel good to a greater or lesser degree as well. But mine is mine. I look after it and it looks after me.

[Hitcher]

All motorcycles (for the purposes of this and not the Scottish Thread) have a soul. Some of these souls are a bit more high maintenance than others. A bit like people, really.

[mstriumph]

Gotta looooove that Hitcher.... right on the button!

[sels1]

No soul ? Obviously none of you have ever owned a Kockasucky 500 triple intent on murdering you.


haha, I had the 350 version for a while many years ago.....it had similar traits. Temperamental bloody thing, always trying to throw me - didnt keep it long.

[Waylander]

Have you thought about getting something else?

Yea but I'd never get rid of her. I like her too much. Few more weeksand all her problems will go away hopefully. Bought her lots of gifts now just need them to arrive in country.

[avgas]

If anyone doubts this - just gimmie an email, and i'll get Sapphire to Growl and Bark at you. She can be a nasty bitch sometimes

[avgas]

Soul is all in your head. Whether it's real or not, I don't know, it's not something detectable.
I like to think my bike has soul.
You would think that, however on 9!!! occassions mine, or someone i know has had their bike try and warn them not to go riding today.
And before you say "bad maintenance" etc......try this on for size, a bike, 150k's on the clock, EFI.....just wont start one day - later on that day, the owner hits a diesel patch...