Considering a party

[Scuba_Steve]

OK so seriously thinking about starting a party :woohoo: (no not that sort of party <_<)

My main platform will be to make NZ a democracy (don't try spouting shit about "we're all ready a democracy". That's bullshit, we're not!)
I would need majority support, which could be hard giving the amount of idiots that continue to vote National/Labour like they're the only 2 parties in existence :facepalm: but that doesn't make it impossible

But here's what I'd plan -
- 1st & foremost obviously to turn NZ into a democracy, give the people the power. Govt would effectively be nothing more than figureheads
- ACC (being a sore issue for many) would be changed. Cover would be as indented, no fault for all NZ. It would no longer be a fragmented collection it would be on GST alone. Everyone pays, everyone’s covered. I would also look at extending this cover to the whole health system (prevention is cheaper than cure)
- All Govt perks would be scraped straight up with no "compensation pay rise"
- The speed scam would be no more.
- The licence system would have a major revamp, people will have to know how to drive before being able to take control of a killing machine & the test would be administrated by simulation which international drivers would also have to do before being allowed on our roads
- WOF would no longer exist (I know this will be controversial) but your vehicle is either road worthy or it's not, simple as that. MTA tax isn't helping anything OZ has been running like this for years
- Multiple vehicle owners 'rejoice' you will only pay for the vehicle you use. All vehicles will pay for their road usage though RUC's so your only ever paying for the time you use with the vehicle you use
- The dole would be scrapped, instead everyone will get the "dole payment" & nothing more! you want more money, you work. Those who don't will have no WINZ office to complain to, the IRD will be drip feeding the money & as no WINZ office the tax payer will be buying no more cars, swimming pools etc for people to lazy to work
- We would be dropping the ETS, it is nothing more than a scam. Instead we would focus on a real problems like pollution. Companies would be given suitable time to fix the problem, following that they would be shut down until they are upto standard.
- All main infrastructure & services (water, power lines, phone lines, roads, sewage, Police, Fire, Ambulance etc) will be Govt owned & operated to cover costs ONLY. They will not be pulling large corporate profits or paying out large bonuses like current.
- Animals would have better protection under law i.e. penalties would be harder to the point of matching their human counterparts
- Laws designed to censor, control, or protect oneself would be removed.
- The 3-stike system would be upgraded, upon the 3rd strike real penalties will be imposed. 5-finger discount, castration, total loss of all possessions etc to match the crime
- Justice would be as it's supposed to be, Blind. courts would no longer be given the name, a visual, exact job when judging, they would have to judge on the crime & circumstances alone. Decisions would no-longer be made based on ones "standing" or "fame".
- Name suppression (being that it is to 'protect the victim") will be enacted at the request of the victim only (once verdict passed) i.e. once convicted it's only the victim that can decide if the suppression stays

Ok so I'm sure theres more I plan just can't think of them now (should really be working anyhows :whistle:) but this is a start & should give you the basic idea.
Lets not get to bogged down in personal opinion, I'd rather have questions as opposed to fragmented arguments.


So I suppose in the words of Rastuscat "Have at it"

Oh and just for RC, the police will be supplied with donuts in loo of the quota (sorry) KPI rewards (I got your back:msn-wink:)

[Bikemad]

could we have a party to discuss the party

[slofox]

Where's the poll to name it then eh?

[SMOKEU]

- 1st & foremost obviously to turn NZ into a democracy, give the people the power. Govt would effectively be nothing more than figureheads

- The dole would be scrapped, instead everyone will get the "dole payment" & nothing more! you want more money, you work. Those who don't will have no WINZ office to complain to, the IRD will be drip feeding the money & as no WINZ office the tax payer will be buying no more cars, swimming pools etc for people to lazy to work


1. The majority of people are dumb and can't be trusted. Just look at who they voted for in the last general elections.

2. There aren't enough jobs available for everyone. How do you plan on ensuring that there are enough jobs for every person who wants to work?

[Scuba_Steve]

could we have a party to discuss the party

Sure, why not :drinknsin


Where's the poll to name it then eh?

I'm not sure leaving KB to name the party would be a good idea :no: But maybee we could do that at the party to discuss the party :laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

1. The majority of people are dumb and can't be trusted. Just look at who they voted for in the last general elections.


This is something everyone will say about everyone else, and for some yes it is true. To help tho severe restrictions would be put on media when it comes to issues at hand they will be forced to provide only factual information with absolutely no opinion sort of a pro & con list (but the exact details will have to be worked through tho the jist is no more media biased propaganda)



2. There aren't enough jobs available for everyone. How do you plan on ensuring that there are enough jobs for every person who wants to work?

always a good one, I guess you can never ensure there is always jobs for those whom want to work. However I would like to have more "community" jobs people would be welcome to do i.e. people in the community looking after their community (gardens, lawns, rubbish, graffiti removal etc) this would allow for some "community pride" & have services tended to on a more regular basis

[Katman]

Well I loled.

[SMOKEU]

always a good one, I guess you can never ensure there is always jobs for those whom want to work. However I would like to have more "community" jobs people would be welcome to do i.e. people in the community looking after their community (gardens, lawns, rubbish, graffiti removal etc) this would allow for some "community pride" & have services tended to on a more regular basis

I agree. But then again that doesn't solve the problem regarding living expenses, unless you pay them, which in turn will mean they're pretty much a standard city council worker.

[MSTRS]

But, the system...of course you've forgotten...but it could...then there's the...oh fuck, I just remembered about...nah, surely not...
Sounds like a viable alternative to the interchangeable wallies someone keeps putting in there

[Scuba_Steve]

I agree. But then again that doesn't solve the problem regarding living expenses, unless you pay them, which in turn will mean they're pretty much a standard city council worker.

Well as mentioned every NZers (18+) will receive effectively what is the current dole so can survive, but yes the idea would be to pay them minimum wage so they can have a little luxury/fun.
It'll be a way for those without ability/skills to gain some & those without previous work experience to get some, for most it'll only be a stepping stone job. I would hope to have high turnover as people move onto bigger & better jobs in the private sector.

[slofox]

I'm not sure leaving KB to name the party would be a good idea ...

Hey! a sensible politician!!!

[Genestho]

See, I've come to believe that that's a perception based on life experience and knowledge of politics and reality and how deep we delve into matters - people generally don't - preferring to regurgitate waffle from some cherry picked mis-guided info, from some well written blogger or yet another self professed journo with just the facts, or Nev with the grouse ute and hot missus to quote Shrub lol, and that's not IMO, how we should form opinions, but with the rise of the internet - there you have it.

I would vote National again in this current climate and I will make no apologies for doing so. None of the others give me a sense of security at all. In making that statement I'm not willing to debate the perceptions of what's happening around us right now - that's a whole different thread.


1. The majority of people are dumb and can't be trusted. Just look at who they voted for in the last general elections.



What we need to be careful of in our beliefs is polarising each others opinions and instead of creating a divide; inspire in each other a want to change, a want to learn old practices and basics and be thankful for what we DO have.

So I agree with community based gardening, bartering, sharing excess, giving people that want it purpose and new skills. For everyone to spend time or effort on something or someone, outside of themselves. That is already happening and I hope the seed spreads so to speak.

Realising the cold hard facts that we are going to have to tighten our belts further; it's only a matter of time - we cannot go on the way we are and someone at some point needs to make some tough decisions both locally and globally, life is going to go tits up for many although, I really hope I'm wrong.

I believe it's got nowt to do with left or right, but with humanity and how it's going to react towards each other in the very near future when faced with the possibility of even more adversity. We've already had a sample.

On that note, not that long ago I felt quite differently but, screw the idea of yet another political party (no offence intended, I know you're coming from a good idealistic place, I've been there and been apart of changes) but in the end it's all the same to different degrees, you will become aware of the truth in politics - still have to make deals to get bills passed and I assure you - you won't make everyone happy.

For what you propose, SS, you'd have to hope the ingrained system falls over on itself and then somehow starts again.

Community based stuff is just that and far more easily achievable, requires no leadership just action, if you/we/who-ever put the time or effort in and the rewards are almost instant for all and far reaching, IMO.

Good luck.

[slofox]

Here ya go SS.

1. Minimum wage x 40 hours per week is tax free. Above that, tax at rate to meet needs. Could be flat, could be stepped, you choose.

2. Dole equal to above BUT IS TAXED.

3. Every dollar earned comes off the dole BUT IS TAX FREE.


So you actually gain a little on every dollar you earn instead of getting from the gummint.

Might work.

[Scuba_Steve]

still have to make deals to get bills passed and I assure you - you won't make everyone happy.

For what you propose, SS, you'd have to hope the ingrained system falls over on itself and then somehow starts again.

I did mention I'd pretty much need control to go forth with my plans, no current politician is going to give up their perks or live in flats by choice and they definitely will not effectively give up power without a fight as my system will see happen.

As for making everyone happy, I never planed to. My whole idea is to just sort NZ out followed by handing it back to the people it belongs

[MSTRS]

... followed by handing it back to the people it belongs

And just how far back does your NZ bloodline have to go?

[HenryDorsetCase]

2. There aren't enough jobs available for everyone. How do you plan on ensuring that there are enough jobs for every person who wants to work?

well duh, emply them on the minsitry of works, post office and railways like we used to. And the local council. .

[Scuba_Steve]

And just how far back does your NZ bloodline have to go?

You just have to be a NZ citizen. We are all immigrants, as long as your choosing the greatest county in the world as yours why should you not get a say??? NZ residents however will be unable to vote they still choose another country as theirs & simply reside here. It is the equivalent of renters vs owners if you will

[Zedder]

I did mention I'd pretty much need control to go forth with my plans, no current politician is going to give up their perks or live in flats by choice and they definitely will not effectively give up power without a fight as my system will see happen.

As for making everyone happy, I never planed to. My whole idea is to just sort NZ out followed by handing it back to the people it belongs

So post your CV up SS and we'll see if you've got what it takes to run the place.

[Genestho]

I did mention I'd pretty much need control to go forth with my plans, no current politician is going to give up their perks or live in flats by choice and they definitely will not effectively give up power without a fight as my system will see happen.

As for making everyone happy, I never planed to. My whole idea is to just sort NZ out followed by handing it back to the people it belongs

Mmm, did you, I can't see where you're talking about a fight, if the people support the party then there'd be no fight, it'd be a clean sweep..

Yeah, so you want to sort NZ out your way - don't we all.. see that's where the divide starts, right there. A lot of politicians believe they are doing what's right for NZ, just like you would - believe it or not..

What if some of the people are not interested in your ideas, because they perceive the world differently to you.

Then there's the cultural differences, and so, you have to have representatives of the many different people.

...hang-on, isn't that a bit like MP's? Do we end up in exactly the same position, or not?

[mashman]

Lower the voting age to 14 :yes:... it's their future too :innocent:

[Scuba_Steve]

So post your CV up SS and we'll see if you've got what it takes to run the place.

Would do you no good, I'm not a banker, I don't rape people on the stock exchange or with investments, I'm not a lawyer or a doctor. I am simply a worker & I'd expect to get through with my policy & my policy alone.



Yeah, so you want to sort NZ out your way - don't we all.. see that's where the divide starts, right there. A lot of politicians believe they are doing what's right for NZ, just like you would - believe it or not..

What if some of the people are not interested in your ideas, because they perceive the world differently to you.

Then there's the cultural differences, and so, you have to have representatives of the many different people.

...hang-on, isn't that a bit like MP's? Do we end up in exactly the same position, or not?

Only difference is I'd be handing NZ back to it's people, not holding onto power or dictating as current
1st year would be my changes. Some will be popular, some misunderstood, & maybee some hated but what I've listed is where I'm headed. I won't be surprising anyone or pushing things through under "emergency" and all details will be openly released.
2nd year I'd be implementing my system to hand the country over, while giving people time to get used to my changes to see if they really had issues with my change or just change itself
3rd year the country would be handed over to NZ, and if there are any changes I previously made the majority are not happy with they will then have the power to reverse or change to something NZ is happy with. As with any law henceforth. Politicians will be powerless, nothing more than figureheads there to represent NZ not control it


Lower the voting age to 14 :yes:... it's their future too :innocent:

:laugh: no I think 18 is fine, but hey when power is handed over feel free to try for a lower voting age

[mashman]

How are you going to generate the revenue to pay every person the minimum wage for 40 hrs per week and to be able to afford everything that they need and WANT?

Is there going to be enough money to pay off NZ's debt?

What happens to those who decide that they don't want to work?

Do you plan to close all tax loopholes?

How are you going to combat inflation?

How are you going to stop the cost of living spiralling?

How are you going to fight off the WTO when they demand that you open your doors to competition?

How are people going to pay for their EQC levies/home insurance?

What are you going to do about alcohol and its affect on society?

What will be your policies re Drugs/Tobacco/fatty foods etc...?

And my fave: Who decides on the "reward" associated with any given job?

Probably a few more questions rattling around upstairs somewhere :rofl:

[Zedder]

Would do you no good, I'm not a banker, I don't rape people on the stock exchange or with investments, I'm not a lawyer or a doctor. I am simply a worker & I'd expect to get through with my policy & my policy alone.

Plenty of other worker people have a CV Scube not just lawyers etc. Surely under your potential total democratic regime we, the people, have a right to disclosure?

Only difference is I'd be handing NZ back to it's people, not holding onto power or dictating as current
1st year would be my changes. Some will be popular, some misunderstood, & maybee some hated but what I've listed is where I'm headed. I won't be surprising anyone or pushing things through under "emergency" and all details will be openly released.
2nd year I'd be implementing my system to hand the country over, while giving people time to get used to my changes to see if they really had issues with my change or just change itself
3rd year the country would be handed over to NZ, and if there are any changes I previously made the majority are not happy with they will then have the power to reverse or change to something NZ is happy with. As with any law henceforth. Politicians will be powerless, nothing more than figureheads there to represent NZ not control it

But who gives you the right to arbitrarily set it up in the first place?

:laugh: no I think 18 is fine, but hey when power is handed over feel free to try for a lower voting age

Maybe compromise with 16 years old then?

[Scuba_Steve]

How are you going to generate the revenue to pay every person the minimum wage for 40 hrs per week and to be able to afford everything that they need and WANT?


I'm not paying everyone minimum wage 40hrs a week only, those that work for the community. The drip feed nationwide "dole" will provide minimum (& I mean minimum) to live. You work you get more ("luxury" or wants)



Is there going to be enough money to pay off NZ's debt?


Yea there will be HEAVY cuts in spending (not in needed services) info will come from the bottom up, cuts will come top down.



What happens to those who decide that they don't want to work?


This might still have to be worked on, but effectively nothing. They just won't have a very pleasurable life



Do you plan to close all tax loopholes?


I'll have to get help with that one but yes, I'll try & have everyone pay their fair share. But also the tax will be more transparent I want everyone to know what they are funding & why it's important



How are you going to combat inflation?


open the valve :bleh:. like with tax loopholes I'll need help there. So, work in progress



How are you going to stop the cost of living spiralling?


By not raising the minimum wage for starters, also as I said the main infrastructure will be Govt owned & only covering costs (not profits), so this should also help keep costs down



How are you going to fight off the WTO when they demand that you open your doors to competition?


Leave Team America (sorry) the U.N. but what would not be open to competition? anything that should be, would be



How are people going to pay for their EQC levies/home insurance?


with money, or most probably 1's & 0's pretty much like now



What are you going to do about alcohol and its affect on society?


well the alcohol I'll drink :drinknsin, society I hope to change. It's our "anti" attitude to booze that causes alot of the problems, people need to grow up with it learn to respect it, cause as it stands now people are like fucking kids in the candy store when they turn 18. As for drunks, there will however always be drunks & there is very little anyone can do about this, but I'd rather have them drinking themselves into depression with booze than with the meths or petrol they're currently being financially pushed to (plus the rest of us want to be able to afford meths again & without the residues, it's useful stuff)



What will be your policies re Drugs/Tobacco/fatty foods etc...?


weed will be legalized & taxed the shit out of like fags, the tax will then go directly to health care (no slush fund) fatty foods is user choice I intend to do nothing except stop the "health crazies" trying to force everyone their way there is nothing solid supporting their claims (link is light hearted any health crazies needn't get too worked up) (http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/181343.html)



And my fave: Who decides on the "reward" associated with any given job?


You talking SOE CEO's??? why not the public???



Probably a few more questions rattling around upstairs somewhere :rofl:

we'll happy to try & answer any more you think of :D

[TrentNz]

So basically, your setting it up to give the Maori's everything... jog on daft cunt they get too much as it is.

Cant be having fuckwits running the country.

Someone please move this to the joke and humor section.

:facepalm:

[Zedder]

we'll happy to try & answer any more you think of :D[/QUOTE]

Ya didn't answer mine though (maybe because I stuck two of them in your previous text by accicdent) typical bloody politician!

[Scuba_Steve]

So basically, your setting it up to give the Maori's everything... jog on daft cunt they get too much as it is.

Cant be having fuckwits running the country.

Someone please move this to the joke and humor section.

:facepalm:

I have no idea where da fuck your getting that from??? might be a little confused there fella



Ya didn't answer mine though (maybe because I stuck two of them in your previous text by accicdent) typical bloody politician!

your right I didn't notice it quoted but I'm not a politician yet, still deciding on that.
CV's of no importance it has no relevant bearing on any attempt to run for parliament if I choose to do so, but if I choose to run & your still obsessed with my CV then I may release it.
Who gives me the right? the people (if voted in) & unlike asset sales my changes are reversible upon the people taking control if they so wish.
and I'll stay with 18 it's a good age & working so far, tho 16 probably wouldn't be a bad age to go might be worth considering think I'd let NZ decide that when I hand power over tho.

[mashman]

I'm not paying everyone minimum wage 40hrs a week only, those that work for the community. The drip feed nationwide "dole" will provide minimum (& I mean minimum) to live. You work you get more ("luxury" or wants). This might still have to be worked on, but effectively nothing. They just won't have a very pleasurable life

I'll try & have everyone pay their fair share

By not raising the minimum wage for starters, also as I said the main infrastructure will be Govt owned & only covering costs (not profits), so this should also help keep costs down

Leave Team America (sorry) the U.N. but what would not be open to competition? anything that should be, would be

why not the public???


So if you can't get a job that's tough shit? and if everyone does decide to get a job, how will you deal with hyperinflation?

What's a fair share in regards to taxation? Will you keep a similar taxation system to the one we currently have?

As the market will set the price for anything not owned by the "govt" how will you stop price increases based on company's deciding that people have more disposable income? In regards to Infrastructure, does that mean the "govt" will employ the most of the builders/tradesmen in NZ? If so how will you pay for them?

How would you counteract any sanctions that the UN and/or the WTO impose on NZ? Not saying they will, but I can't see them lying down for that one.

It'd be fun watching the public decide how much someone gets paid and for some reason I don't think many people will be earning more than minimum wage :innocent: What will you do to stop people heading off overseas?

Who will be responsible for the amount of $ available in the country? Who will be responsible for "printing" our money?

[mashman]

Maybe compromise with 16 years old then?

I'd settle for that :)

[TrentNz]

you said something about giving the country back to the original people blah blah blah

[Zedder]

I have no idea where da fuck your getting that from??? might be a little confused there fella

I'm with SS on that one.

your right I didn't notice it quoted but I'm not a politician yet, still deciding on that.
CV's of no importance it has no relevant bearing on any attempt to run for parliament if I choose to do so, but if I choose to run & your still obsessed with my CV then I may release it.
Who gives me the right? the people (if voted in) & unlike asset sales my changes are reversible upon the people taking control if they so wish.
and I'll stay with 18 it's a good age & working so far, tho 16 probably wouldn't be a bad age to go might be worth considering think I'd let NZ decide that when I hand power over tho.

I'm only semi-serious Scube, you've got a lot of guts posting this on KB.

[Swoop]

The 3-stike system would be upgraded, upon the 3rd strike real penalties will be imposed. 5-finger discount, castration, total loss of all possessions etc to match the crime
Where is the return of the town hall stocks?
Minor offences = into the stocks for some public humiliation & rotten fruit.

Lower the voting age to 14 :yes:... it's their future too :innocent:
Don't be bloody idiotic.

[mashman]

Don't be bloody idiotic.

They haven't been "corrupted" at that point in their life and will likely cast the more "honest" votes... much more preferential than the bunch of fools that currently "vote". They may like what SS has to offer.

[Zedder]

Where is the return of the town hall stocks?
Minor offences = into the stocks for some public humiliation & rotten fruit.

Don't be bloody idiotic.

I'm all for the return of the stocks and not just for minor offences, perhaps it might deter other types of crime.

Yep, 14 is a bit young Mashman.

[Scuba_Steve]

So if you can't get a job that's tough shit? and if everyone does decide to get a job, how will you deal with hyperinflation?

You are full of questions ain't you...
no like mentioned there will be community jobs I hope to have high turnovers in so places will be available for people which need them. As for everyone getting a job? I don't see it happening



What's a fair share in regards to taxation? Will you keep a similar taxation system to the one we currently have?

will be worked through but at current the top end & company will be brought inline (dropped) with each other & the rest will remain



As the market will set the price for anything not owned by the "govt" how will you stop price increases based on company's deciding that people have more disposable income? In regards to Infrastructure, does that mean the "govt" will employ the most of the builders/tradesmen in NZ? If so how will you pay for them?

If need be the Govt will compete, and no builders/tradesmen will remain private however roading, garbage, sewage etc will be brought in-house



How would you counteract any sanctions that the UN and/or the WTO impose on NZ? Not saying they will, but I can't see them lying down for that one.

Yea US throwing their weight around could be a threat, but 1stly it'll have to be crossed if we get to it, 2ndly chances are it wouldn't be as bigger problem as it once was. China isn't the sort of country to listen to the US so we'd probably still have trade there & after all they make the world now & have a large population to export to (but we did just sell them a large chunk of that market)



It'd be fun watching the public decide how much someone gets paid and for some reason I don't think many people will be earning more than minimum wage :innocent: What will you do to stop people heading off overseas?

nothing you wanna leave, leave. I'm relying on improving things here & giving people the control so it becomes their own country, a place they want to live, a place they couldn't imagine leaving.



Who will be responsible for the amount of $ available in the country? Who will be responsible for "printing" our money?
If we're trading with the world we're kinda stuck with current ain't we? tho it might be worth trying to partner with OZ so we keep our individual money but it becomes legal tender & worth the same in both countries.


you said something about giving the country back to the original people blah blah blah

Nope I said hand NZ over to the people not original


I'm only semi-serious Scube, you've got a lot of guts posting this on KB.

Well we have so many diff types on here I thought it a good place to get "real world" reaction


Where is the return of the town hall stocks?
Minor offences = into the stocks for some public humiliation & rotten fruit.


could happen :msn-wink:

[mashman]

For those on the dole that you want to do community work, how's about setting a limit on the amount of hours that are to be worked? max 20 hours gives you an extra hundy in "benefit"? Reckon that could encourage them to spend half a day doing community work?

[placidfemme]

You just have to be a NZ citizen. We are all immigrants, as long as your choosing the greatest county in the world as yours why should you not get a say??? NZ residents however will be unable to vote they still choose another country as theirs & simply reside here. It is the equivalent of renters vs owners if you will

I think this statement is incorrect, many Residents are simply waiting for the 5 year time frame to pass to apply for citizenship, the majority of them actually want to live here, and if they could simply say "I want to be a citizen, NOW" then your above theory could have a degree of truth, but otherwise, not. All you will do by this is increase the rate of potential citizens not voting for you once they are citizens. Kind of dumb I reckon. I know more non-citizens that voted in the last election than citizens, you need to remember some people have a real desire to live in NZ, be honest and hard working, and taking the right for them to help mould the country they choose to live in and help progress is not right IMO.

Rather, look at the stats, look at the groups from certain countries who come in here (and get in) simply because they have a lot of money, not because they have skills to contribute towards a better NZ, look at the groups who choose to not intergrate into the NZ way of life/culture, and make immigration standards harder for those sorts of people to get in, restrict the amount of people that can "BUY" entry into NZ, make the entry system work for ALL immigrants in a fair manner. By doing so you could somewhat eliminate those undesired persons who do not contribute and also to certain degree I am sure, by limiting some aspects of immigration you give NZ'ers a slightly higher chance to get jobs, not having to fight with immigrants who do cheap work, a flooded market for minimum wage (seasonal pickers, call center operators, dairy farm workers etc).

I don't believe for one minute that anyone "cannot" find work. Everyday new jobs are in the papers and online job sites, it is simply a case of restricting the access to WINZ, why should some people work when they simply do not have to? It simply comes down to how determined you are, I once worked 4 jobs, 7 days a week, if I can find 4 jobs, how can someone not find one? Swallow your pride, work at McD's or Countdown, whatever, if you try you can only build upwards from there.

Rant over...

Oh by the way, I like the sound of your party somewhat

[paturoa]

My main platform will be to make NZ a democracy (don't try spouting shit about "we're all ready a democracy". That's bullshit, we're not!)

......

But here's what I'd plan -...

What is your policy for when the majority (democrazy!) don't agree with your ideas / policies?

[Scuba_Steve]

I think this statement is incorrect, many Residents are simply waiting for the 5 year time frame to pass to apply for citizenship, the majority of them actually want to live here, and if they could simply say "I want to be a citizen, NOW" then your above theory could have a degree of truth, but otherwise, not. All you will do by this is increase the rate of potential citizens not voting for you once they are citizens. Kind of dumb I reckon. I know more non-citizens that voted in the last election than citizens, you need to remember some people have a real desire to live in NZ, be honest and hard working, and taking the right for them to help mould the country they choose to live in and help progress is not right IMO.

I know what ya mean & I will say no one said the requirements would remain the same as current & the "buy in" would definitely be scraped (it's those sort of people who destroy the country), everyone will be equal in their attempt to become NZers
But there does need to be a separation between those residing (renting) & those whom make this country their own (buying) & thus only citizens would have the vote as they have committed to living here & making this country their own but like I said the process would be looked into & changed


What is your policy for when the majority (democrazy!) don't agree with your ideas / policies?

Nothing! 3rd year NZ will be handed to New Zealanders, I will be one of them but no 1 person, party or corporation will have dictatorship over NZ like now. We would finally have democracy, New Zealand would be owned & operated by New Zealanders every single (eligible) one of them.

[paturoa]

I'm lost, how do the laws et al get changed after year 3?

Does this democrazy extend right down to policy level?

[scissorhands]

free motorbike riding in schools, fuck yeah

[Swoop]

They haven't been "corrupted" at that point in their life and will likely cast the more "honest" votes... much more preferential than the bunch of fools that currently "vote".
A 14 yr old is more concerned with the drivel that is on Shortarse St or Gnome & Away.
"Corrupted"? The only corruption they suffer is from their parents and they will vote how their parents vote. The cognitive functions are lacking in the majority of that age group.
We have often commented on the need for a "licence to vote" due to intelligence. If you truly belive that a bunch of 14yr olds are "much more preferential than the bunch of fools that currently "vote"" you are proving yourself to be a bigger idiot than what I had previously considered you as.

[mashman]

A 14 yr old is more concerned with the drivel that is on Shortarse St or Gnome & Away.
"Corrupted"? The only corruption they suffer is from their parents and they will vote how their parents vote. The cognitive functions are lacking in the majority of that age group.
We have often commented on the need for a "licence to vote" due to intelligence. If you truly belive that a bunch of 14yr olds are "much more preferential than the bunch of fools that currently "vote"" you are proving yourself to be a bigger idiot than what I had previously considered you as.

I'm glad the growd ups don't watch short arse or gnone & away, oh, hang on...
Why bother sending them to school if they can't learn anything new? Go on then, I'm really curious about this one, how do you measure intelligence let alone gauge whether a person has enough common sense to vote for which policies they would prefer, plenty of dumb fucks, read lacking cognitive function, out there that vote sensibly, but I suppose they must all vote Maori/Mana/NZ First/Green etc... eh? To that end I see no difference between you or a 14 year old, other than you will have different reasons for voting... and as kids will just vote because of the way their parents vote (into adulthood too I bet) bwaaaaa ha ah aha aaaaaaaaaaa why not let them vote at a younger age then? other than that you seem to be saying that when they turn into adults that they vote the same way as their parents did? or do their priorities change and you'd then lump them in with the flop flop voters? Pretty poor for someone as intelligent as yourself... but I've come to expect that of society's sheeple.

My idiocy knows no bounds :yes: but if the above is the best you intelligent folk have for not letting them vote, then I'm bitterly disappointed with your exceptionally flawed "logic".

Edit: there's a thread dedicated to the subject, perhaps you'd like to flog a dead horse in there... this thread is for out future leader :)

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm lost, how do the laws et al get changed after year 3?

Does this democrazy extend right down to policy level?

Laws (anything affecting NZ) will be decided upon by NZ.
Things like tax will be trial'd, if my idealistic vision works & people understand the need this could potentially be left to NZ too, however this maybe too idealistic? & definitely to start this will still be the reign of parliament tho the people will have full transparency & know exactly whats happening & why

[Genestho]

SS. It looks like you're trolling and I'm far too sensible at times. :facepalm:

One more question before I retire from this thread.

With the amount of concern and work you propose to place upon yourself based on what you think 'we the people' or you, want - Have you ever bothered to get informed of the Bills or Acts currently in Parliament.

Have you ever watched what's coming next.
Have you ever followed a Bill from beginning to end, submitted your views at each stage and then followed through to select committee.

-I don't mean spending a second clicking an online petition with someone else's understanding on a Bill, heading it.
-I don't mean reading a news paper with cherry picked information and comments taken out of context with the flashy headlines.
-I don't mean going to a protest with a placard and chanting, I mean actually informing yourself.
EDIT - or writing on an internet forum in any form.

You might say democracy is BS here, I disagree.
I've seen it in action and it works if enough people bother to make the effort and follow through, yes it's a lot of work but far far less than what you think you could achieve, it also helps you grasp fact vs what somebody else says.

IMO you can't say democracy is BS, without actually using the system that allows us to have our say..
We have a system in place open to anyone that I've been shocked to see not many if any seem to use, which I believe to be to our detriment.

People say the Govt doesn't listen - well, what can they do if people don't bother to write their views where they'll be seen and paper-trailed.

The clanger is, you don't even have to be educated to do so.


So, have you ever..? If so: What. If not, why not?

[Katman]

Serious question SS.

How old are you?

With all due respect you sound like a teenager pretending to live in the growed ups world.

Idealism and realism are rarely one and the same.

[Scuba_Steve]

SS. It looks like you're trolling and I'm far too sensible at times. :facepalm:

One more question before I retire from this thread.

With the amount of concern and work you propose to place upon yourself based on what you think 'we the people' or you, want - Have you ever bothered to get informed of the Bills or Acts currently in Parliament.

Have you ever watched what's coming next.
Have you ever followed a Bill from beginning to end, submitted your views at each stage and then followed through to select committee.

-I don't mean spending a second clicking an online petition with someone else's understanding on a Bill, heading it.
-I don't mean reading a news paper with cherry picked information and comments taken out of context with the flashy headlines.
-I don't mean going to a protest with a placard and chanting, I mean actually informing yourself.
EDIT - or writing on an internet forum in any form.

You might say democracy is BS here, I disagree.
I've seen it in action and it works if enough people bother to make the effort and follow through, yes it's a lot of work but far far less than what you think you could achieve, it also helps you grasp fact vs what somebody else says.

IMO you can't say democracy is BS, without actually using the system that allows us to have our say..
We have a system in place open to anyone that I've been shocked to see not many if any seem to use, which I believe to be to our detriment.

People say the Govt doesn't listen - well, what can they do if people don't bother to write their views where they'll be seen and paper-trailed.

The clanger is, you don't even have to be educated to do so.


So, have you ever..? If so: What. If not, why not?

Ain't no trollin' I am seriously thinking about running in the hopes to turn NZ into a democracy
I have used the system before (which is purposely setup to stop people from using it), for things I care about mainly roading & oppressive laws like the food bill, skynet, anti-smacking etc
That last one is a pure example of how democracy does not exist within NZ, the people choose they did not want this law the Govt ignored them as they have with a few others like decreasing the amount of politicians in parliament etc
Democracy does not exist & I want to bring it in


Serious question SS.

How old are you?

With all due respect you sound like a teenager pretending to live in the growed ups world.

Idealism and realism are rarely one and the same.

Take the age your thinking, double it, add 5 & your probably about right :msn-wink:
& my plan maybee too idealistic? I don't know, but you have to have the idealistic to have the realistic. Without it no-one gets anywhere

[Katman]

Take the age your thinking, double it, add 5 & your probably about right :msn-wink:
& my plan maybee too idealistic? I don't know, but you have to have the idealistic to have the realistic. Without it no-one gets anywhere

So you plan to create a 'real' democracy? One where the 'people' have the power?

So how are the people going to make decisions? By voting on everything?

So what happens when 60% want one thing and 40% want the other? The 60% get their way?

What happens when the 40% say "fuck that, there's almost as many of us as there is them. They'll have to fight us to make us comply".

What happens when 20% want one thing, 20% want another thing, 30% want something else, and 30% want it to stay the same?

The reality is, that a country needs someone at the top to say "this is the way it's going to be". If the country don't like it they periodically get to vote that person out.

Placing full power in the hands of the people is only likely to result in anarchy.

[Bikemad]

Placing full power in the hands of the people is only likely to result in anarchy.

how do the Swiss get by...........don't they run a Referendum type system of Govt there?..........just curious
and when and where is the pissup gonna be SS

[Pussy]

Democracy does not exist & I want to bring it in





Errr... Didn't the majority of voters in the last election get the result they wanted??

[paturoa]

Laws (anything affecting NZ) will be decided upon by NZ.

I'm not explaining myself - what is the mechanism? eg on-line referendums for everything? How do I as a citizen make the choice.

Also to my policy question, those too.

I suspect that I'd have to be spending 80% of my awake hours trawling everything, otherwise the motivated minorities would be the only ones botherred to "vote", hence trashing the whole democracy thing.

[Scuba_Steve]

So you plan to create a 'real' democracy? One where the 'people' have the power?

So how are the people going to make decisions? By voting on everything?

So what happens when 60% want one thing and 40% want the other? The 60% get their way?

What happens when the 40% say "fuck that, there's almost as many of us as there is them. They'll have to fight us to make us comply".

What happens when 20% want one thing, 20% want another thing, 30% want something else, and 30% want it to stay the same?

The reality is, that a country needs someone at the top to say "this is the way it's going to be". If the country don't like it they periodically get to vote that person out.

Placing full power in the hands of the people is only likely to result in anarchy.

These are the sort of arguments put forth to create dictatorship
The country is quite capable of running itself and yes the system will be majority rule but it'll be a 60/40 split i.e. you will have to breach the 60% threshold for the change to take place


how do the Swiss get by...........don't they run a Referendum type system of Govt there?..........just curious
and when and where is the pissup gonna be SS

Yes the swiss are closer to democracy than most others, and if I were to fail at the very least thats where I'd like to fall as for the pissup that'll come about if I decide to run but you'll have to make your way down here for it :drinkup:


Errr... Didn't the majority of voters in the last election get the result they wanted??

No


I'm not explaining myself - what is the mechanism? eg on-line referendums for everything? How do I as a citizen make the choice.

Also to my policy question, those too.

I suspect that I'd have to be spending 80% of my awake hours trawling everything, otherwise the motivated minorities would be the only ones botherred to "vote", hence trashing the whole democracy thing.

yes online votes it's quick, it's efficient (yes there will be remote kiosks for those without interwebs etc) its "cheap"
laws will be human readable you won't have to spend major amounts of time trolling through everything new just to get a grasp of it. They will be simple & precise (lawyers may not like this so much tho)

[Pussy]

Errr... Didn't the majority of voters in the last election get the result they wanted??



No





You're sadly mistaken.
Just because YOU didn't get what YOU wanted, doesn't mean to say that the majority didn't.

[Katman]

These are the sort of arguments put forth to create dictatorship
The country is quite capable of running itself and yes the system will be majority rule but it'll be a 60/40 split i.e. you will have to breach the 60% threshold for the change to take place


The majority of me wants to treat you as a complete joke but I'll allow the softer side of me to have it's say.

You'd be far better off picking a subject that you believe New Zealand to be passionate about and lead a highly publicised event focusing attention on it.

Google 'Kiwis Care March' or 'Tania Harris' to see what can be achieved by someone who understands the general feeling of the population. (Bear in mind that the march in 1981 was before the time of the internet or the mobile phone).

Achieve something like that and you might just be worthy of some credibility.

[Katman]

Now for the other side of me........

If I could be arsed trawling through all your previous posts I could produce a book of quotes that would show you as totally unsuitable to lead a game of charades, let alone a country.

[Scuba_Steve]

You're sadly mistaken.
Just because YOU didn't get what YOU wanted, doesn't mean to say that the majority didn't.

Umm maybee you should go rethink your statements. Really rethink them...


Now for the other side of me........

If I could be arsed trawling through all your previous posts I could produce a book of quotes that would show you as totally unsuitable to lead a game of charades, let alone a country.

says one of the most ignored people on KB. You know nothing of my ability to lead, all you'd be pulling out is my anti speed scam opinions & dislike of oppression. Nothing to do with any ability to lead

Oh & FYI I wouldn't be doing it alone, like every-other party I would need a few. John Key is only a face, he alone does not decide. The big corporations behind him do.

[Katman]

says one of the most ignored people on KB. You know nothing of my ability to lead, all you'd be pulling out is my anti speed scam opinions & dislike of oppression. Nothing to do with any ability to lead

Oh & FYI I wouldn't be doing it alone, like every-other party I would need a few. John Key is only a face, he alone does not decide. The big corporations behind him do.

Ok then.

You're a fucking joke.

[Pussy]

Umm maybee you should go rethink your statements. Really rethink them...





Maybe you should post some pictures of the finger paintings you do... but then they're probably not very well thought out either.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ok then.

You're a fucking joke.

:laugh: no, no little boy that right there is the only reason I keep you around.

[Katman]

Maybe you should post some pictures of the finger paintings you do... but then they're probably not very well thought out either.

This one's called 'Fuck the Pigs'.

<img src="http://www.kids-fun-and-games.com/images/finger_painting.jpg"/>

[Scuba_Steve]

Maybe you should post some pictures of the finger paintings you do... but then they're probably not very well thought out either.

God I have to spell it out :facepalm:
1stly ALOT of the people who voted National didn't want them either, they just wanted Labour less. NZ is a country of voting who you don't want out, not who you do want in.
2ndly Your saying everyone that voted National wants asset sales,
If you voted National (I'm assuming you did), you wanted skynet? you want this oppressive food bill? you want the assets sold? You want higher ACC Costs?.
Is this what "the majority wanted"? You say they did.

[Scuba_Steve]

This one's called 'Fuck the Pigs'.

<img src="http://www.kids-fun-and-games.com/images/finger_painting.jpg"/>

That's very good KM, you should get your mum to put that on your fridge at home

[Katman]

God I have to spell it out :facepalm:


Well then shit-for-brains......

You've set yourself up for a fall - best you get busy.

If you succeed, I'll be the first to congratulate you.

If you fall, I'll laugh.

[mashman]

Well then shit-for-brains......

You've set yourself up for a fall - best you get busy.

If you succeed, I'll be the first to congratulate you.

If you fall, I'll laugh.

praps he'd be able to run a successful campaign to stop people riding and crashing... just like others can't

[Katman]

praps he'd be able to run a successful campaign to stop people riding and crashing... just like others can't

Really?

I think you'll find I'm achieving what I hoped I would.

[mashman]

Really?

I think you'll find I'm achieving what I hoped I would.

You never know.

Good for you. Did it take long and did you get much in the way of backing?

[mashman]

In light of Katmans superiority complex and tall poppy syndrome looking to have had a collision


will be worked through but at current the top end & company will be brought inline (dropped) with each other & the rest will remain

I believe the phrase you're looking for is: "We need to take advice on that."... after all that's all JK needs to say to get elected. ditch the rest of the explanation irrespective of the fact that it shows that you've given it some personal thought :)

[Swoop]

Why bother sending them to school if they can't learn anything new?

...but if the above is the best you intelligent folk have for not letting them vote...
Why did you decide on 14yrs old as the eligibility age?
Using your logic we should be able to cast a vote from the age of birth.

[mashman]

Why did you decide on 14yrs old as the eligibility age?
Using your logic we should be able to cast a vote from the age of birth.

A year will have been completed at "high" school level.
Heh, that's vewy vewy twue... There is no real common sense age other than the "limits" we currently use for kids becoming adults... kids are changing and they understand a lot more than we give them credit for... so I'm willing to give a 14 yr old a go, in terms of voting, as I reckon they're plenty smart in regards to what's right or wrong when they're given "options" and knowledge on any subject, plus they have the time and space to be able to discuss the issues within their peer group. It may even instill a little responsibility, who knows, but I wouldn't worry in the slightest if the govt implemented such a policy (which I highly doubt given the can of worms it would open for the growd ups).