Oi coppa! I got a question for you

[Scuba_Steve]

So what's this "legal loophole" that prevents you from going after drive-offs (petrol thief's)???

[BoristheBiter]

So what's this "legal loophole" that prevents you from going after drive-offs (petrol thief's)???

Too close a proximity to donuts?
No petrol in car?
tea break?
They aren't speeding.:rofl:

[placidfemme]

So what's this "legal loophole" that prevents you from going after drive-offs (petrol thief's)???

+1 I'm curious too

[Scuba_Steve]

Too close a proximity to donuts?
No petrol in car?
tea break?
They aren't speeding.:rofl:

maybee that's where the complainants are going wrong? "some guy just drove off stealing petrol & donuts, & he was speeding as he left" :shutup:

But I'm interested as to what this "legal loophole" is & why it exists. The latter I'm not expecting the cops to know, but if they do feel free to share :yes:

[oneofsix]

So what's this "legal loophole" that prevents you from going after drive-offs (petrol thief's)???

I'm missing something here (nothing unusual then) but what is this about a legal loophole that stops them chasing thieves? Is there an article link or something? They chase shoplifters don't they, same thing :scratch:

[YellowDog]

This is all new to me :shit:

Is the new "FREE PETROL FOR ALL RULE" linked to the change to the left turn regulation?

[oneofsix]

This is all new to me :shit:

Is the new "FREE PETROL FOR ALL RULE" linked to the change to the left turn regulation?

What really hurts is I just paid for a tank of petrol this morning, then again there was a guy on the forecourt for a change ;)

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm missing something here (nothing unusual then) but what is this about a legal loophole that stops them chasing thieves? Is there an article link or something? They chase shoplifters don't they, same thing :scratch:

Well this is where my interest stemmed from


I called the police after a $50 "drive-off" and got told that, because of a legal loophole, they couldn't help.

So I'm hoping some cop can enlighten all of us about this "legal loophole" that prevents them from helping with petrol theft, or if this is just another case of Police refusing to do their job.

[oneofsix]

Well this is where my interest stemmed from



So I'm hoping some cop can enlighten all of us about this "legal loophole" that prevents them from helping with petrol theft, or if this is just another case of Police refusing to do their job.

yep yep yep in that case I would have to say the loop was the donut and the hole the one in the middle and legal cause it was their break time under the employment law.

[slofox]

I should stop using unmanned servos then - no run offs possible there...

[BoristheBiter]

Well this is where my interest stemmed from



So I'm hoping some cop can enlighten all of us about this "legal loophole" that prevents them from helping with petrol theft, or if this is just another case of Police refusing to do their job.

Can you please post the link as that just looks like you mad it up.

[placidfemme]

Can you please post the link as that just looks like you mad it up.

this is KB afterall... If he heard if from Bob who heard it from his mate Steve, who overheard his boss talking to a customer, who found out from his best friends wife he is shagging... then it must be true...

[Scuba_Steve]

Can you please post the link as that just looks like you mad it up.

Such a skeptic you are, it was a letter to the editor in yesterdays Dominion Post

Oh turns out they're online too so here's the link (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/letters-to-the-editor/6445957/Letter-What-on-earth-are-we-supposed-to-do-if-police-won-t-help) - Simon Allan from GAS petrol station was the commenter

[scissorhands]

The profit margins of customers choosing a full fill, outweigh losses from the occasional runner

I think you'll find they get most of it back plus extra via the courts. Stopping a motorist somewhere in traffic, after locating via tracking or cams, hauling his ass back to the station to watch video etc, is all really time consuming.... great for the garage owners....some runners just forget to pay.... I did once out of forgetfulness, but return 40min later when I looked in my wallet and saw the cash.

Must be a good excuse for them in court with low conviction rates

Have the coppa's jumped yet?

[Kickaha]

The profit margins of customers choosing a full fill, outweigh losses from the occasional runner

Fuck you're a funny man, unless things have changed dramatically in the last few years there's bugger all margin in petrol

[SMOKEU]

I call bullshit. Stealing fuel is theft. Just like stealing a chocolate bar from a convenience store.

[BoristheBiter]

The profit margins of customers choosing a full fill, outweigh losses from the occasional runner

I think you'll find they get most of it back plus extra via the courts. Stopping a motorist somewhere in traffic, after locating via tracking or cams, hauling his ass back to the station to watch video etc, is all really time consuming.... great for the garage owners....some runners just forget to pay.... I did once out of forgetfulness, but return 40min later when I looked in my wallet and saw the cash.

Must be a good excuse for them in court with low conviction rates

Have the coppa's jumped yet?

If they get it back the gas station is lucky never mind extra. Slap on hand with wet bus ticket and maybe court costs if they are really unlucky.

[Scuba_Steve]

I call bullshit. Stealing fuel is theft. Just like stealing a chocolate bar from a convenience store.

yea I'm hoping for at-least 1 cop to confirm or deny this "legal loophole" (I'm expecting the latter).

RC your usually decent with the knowledge, care to jump in???

[scissorhands]

Fuck you're a funny man, unless things have changed dramatically in the last few years there's bugger all margin in petrol

Take away full fill and watch income of $4,030,000 drop to $4,000,000... or so, who wants to reduce income levels in todays commercial world?

Then while not waiting in line to pay, the customer will not ad other items to the shopping list. 30k grows to 80k

This loss of income would logically prevent 'pay first petrol' becoming mandatory.

Whats so funny about that?

At least I'm not jeering the coppa's to jump when the situation at the service station could be easily avoided if owners wernt so GREEDY

[caspernz]

Take away full fill and watch income of $4,030,000 drop to $4,000,000... or so, who wants to reduce income levels in todays commercial world?

Then while not waiting in line to pay, the customer will not ad other items to the shopping list. 30k grows to 80k

This loss of income would logically prevent 'pay first petrol' becoming mandatory.

Whats so funny about that?

At least I'm not jeering the coppa's to jump when the situation at the service station could be easily avoided if owners wernt so GREEDY

Haha, you really don't have a clue about retailing fuel do you? At least Kickaha had the right idea...no servo can survive just on fuel sales alone. As for the manner in which this post was started by the OP, no surprise that no self respecting policeman has posted a reply. I sure as heck wouldn't respond to such disrespectful shite if I were in their ranks.

[scissorhands]

I'm clueless after all

[avgas]

Haha, you really don't have a clue about retailing fuel do you? At least Kickaha had the right idea...no servo can survive just on fuel sales alone. As for the manner in which this post was started by the OP, no surprise that no self respecting policeman has posted a reply. I sure as heck wouldn't respond to such disrespectful shite if I were in their ranks.


I'm clueless after all
That was a bit rough. Proper explanation required.

scissorhands, the retailer typically gets 4 cents a litre.......and that is to cover everything.
Thats roughly 2-3% markup?
If a servo doesn't sell the 'extras' - they usually are closed down in about 2 years.

[pete376403]

The profit margins of customers choosing a full fill, outweigh losses from the occasional runner

I think you'll find they get most of it back plus extra via the courts. Stopping a motorist somewhere in traffic, after locating via tracking or cams, hauling his ass back to the station to watch video etc, is all really time consuming.... great for the garage owners....some runners just forget to pay.... I did once out of forgetfulness, but return 40min later when I looked in my wallet and saw the cash.

Must be a good excuse for them in court with low conviction rates

Have the coppa's jumped yet?
Gas stations won't get anything extra back via courts. For the chain that we (my employer) provides IT support for, drive offs are captured on camera. The images are sent to a collection agency, who chase up the offender, and who add collection costs. The station doesn't have to do any more, nor do they get anything extra over the petrol dollar amount back. I guess the other petrol retaillers operate in a similar manner.

[RDJ]

I understand the margin on pump sales is extremely low - according to the MTA sometimes it costs more to sell gas than the station owner makes in profit on the gas alone.

***

""Many independent service station operators work on a fixed margin basis, typically around 4 to 4.5 cents per litre. Working on a fixed margin basis means that the product their business is primarily based around is becoming increasingly uneconomic to sell. This at a time when the government takes a larger amount from each litre of fuel whenever the price goes up: currently taxes and levies account for more than 90 cents of every litre of 91 octane unleaded petrol (91 ULP).

For many operators, the current gross margin on 91 ULP is less than 2 percent and it is dropping with each successive price increase.

MTA spokesperson Ian Stronach says “There aren’t that many business models that work around a fixed margin mechanism like this. Many retailers are able to adjust and maintain margins as prices go up, but for many independent service station operators this is not a choice, they are trapped with a falling margin every time the price of fuel increases.”

As fuel costs increase, so does the tendency for motorists to use card based payment facilities rather than cash. This also adds further costs for operators as they pay a percentage based fee when a card is used. With card processing fees around the 1.25 – 1.5 percent level, the available margin is quickly consumed. In some cases, depending on the type of card presented, when loyalty schemes are in operation, operators are actually losing money on some transactions; it is costing them to sell the fuel.""

[scissorhands]

Gas stations won't get anything extra back via courts. For the chain that we (my employer) provides IT support for, drive offs are captured on camera. The images are sent to a collection agency, who chase up the offender, and who add collection costs. The station doesn't have to do any more, nor do they get anything extra over the petrol dollar amount back. I guess the other petrol retaillers operate in a similar manner.

okay I guessed wrong on getting the money back via courts
markup at a low 4% I figured already, still makes pre-purchased gas at lower volumes less attractive for the retailer.... buyer may just spend $20 instead of a $125 fill

Another point, people like to fill up, but they dont like dicking around with the cashier twice. If garages have pay first policy, customers may go elsewhere so they dont have to chat with cashiers more than once, each time they visit a fuel stop

[Smifffy]

Yeah, I got dicked around by a lippy local servo attendant, who then argued with me about what the sign said on the pump - it said "Lift handle and wait for attendant to activate pump" NOT "come inside and beg us to turn the pump on for you". Plenty of local servos and I'm sure that place enjoys plenty of custom from others, but I ain't going back there any time soon.

Oh well, it's not like they are markedly cheaper either.


okay I guessed wrong on getting the money back via courts
markup at a low 4% I figured already, still makes pre-purchased gas at lower volumes less attractive for the retailer.... buyer may just spend $20 instead of a $125 fill

Another point, people like to fill up, but they dont like dicking around with the cashier twice. If garages have pay first policy, customers may go elsewhere so they dont have to chat with cashiers more than once, each time they visit a fuel stop

[superman]

At least Kickaha had the right idea...no servo can survive just on fuel sales alone.

The unmanned fuel only servos with cheaper gas prices beg to differ... :crazy:

[FJRider]

Another point, people like to fill up, but they dont like dicking around with the cashier twice. If garages have pay first policy, customers may go elsewhere so they dont have to chat with cashiers more than once, each time they visit a fuel stop

As I understand ... the Gas stations "pre-pay" before it gets in their tanks ... why shouldn't the customer ... ???

[Scuba_Steve]

Well given the lack of cop response, I'm gonna say that there is no "legal loophole" & the cops were just making shit up to avoid doing their job. Unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised

[avgas]

The unmanned fuel only servos with cheaper gas prices beg to differ... :crazy:
Think you will find NONE are locally owned. ALL are globally owned. (yep even the so called "NZ gas companies")
Not that that is a bad thing - I actually like them. But just a point of difference between running a local operation and not can be seen purely on expenses.

Interesting fact : all these fancy autofil stations (around the world) are actually designed by a NZ firm. Who is only just releasing them in NZ now - their reasoning... "Shit on your own front lawn last, shit on the others first".

[superman]

As I understand ... the Gas stations "pre-pay" before it gets in their tanks ... why shouldn't the customer ... ???

That would be fine if we knew exactly at the point of arrival how much room there is in the tank. Something Gas stations would know exactly for their orders... something we can only guess.

[Zedder]

That was a bit rough. Proper explanation required.

scissorhands, the retailer typically gets 4 cents a litre.......and that is to cover everything.
Thats roughly 2-3% markup?
If a servo doesn't sell the 'extras' - they usually are closed down in about 2 years.

Four cents a litre is pathetic. I was reading a while back about Goverment getting 56% out of a litre of fuel. They rake in nearly $2.5 billion per annum from petrol sales then about $290 million in GST!!

[FJRider]

That would be fine if we knew exactly at the point of arrival how much room there is in the tank. Something Gas stations would know exactly for their orders... something we can only guess.

I may be wrong ... (sometimes am) but I would think those stations are capable of giving change.

[superman]

I may be wrong ... (sometimes am) but I would think those stations are capable of giving change.

Some people never ever carry cash... but if they could refund straight into my bank account that would be great. But that still means 2 trips to the cashier which is inefficient. It also means I need more money in my account than I'll actually be spending...

[Bassmatt]

I think there is something to this. I know of another G.A.S station in a very small town where they get the odd drive off. The Police have never turned up after a call has been made and this includes a case where the owner told police he knew the name of the drive off-er and could even show them where he lived.
Does seem a bit strange it is theft after all.

[BoristheBiter]

I think there is something to this. I know of another G.A.S station in a very small town where they get the odd drive off. The Police have never turned up after a call has been made and this includes a case where the owner told police he knew the name of the drive off-er and could even show them where he lived.
Does seem a bit strange it is theft after all.

If they didn't turn up how could he show them where he lived.

You will probably find that there was not a unit able to be sent at that time.

[Usarka]

Yeah, I got dicked around by a lippy local servo attendant, who then argued with me about what the sign said on the pump - it said "Lift handle and wait for attendant to activate pump" NOT "come inside and beg us to turn the pump on for you". Plenty of local servos and I'm sure that place enjoys plenty of custom from others, but I ain't going back there any time soon.

Oh well, it's not like they are markedly cheaper either.

Put the nozzle in the rubbish bin. The beeping will fuck him off and he'll have to get off his big ben pie arse and fix it.

[FJRider]

But that still means 2 trips to the cashier which is inefficient. It also means I need more money in my account than I'll actually be spending...

Perhaps you dont try to spend any more money than you need. Or afford. If you are unfamiliar with your bikes fuel capacity/useage ... about time you were. I can tell (within a few buck) how much fuel I will need to fill it. Unless you are regularly filling your tank when it is on reserve ... a few litres off a full tank is seldom an issue.

Inefficient ... :killingme

If you cant afford to fill your tank ... at least pay what you know you do have in your account.

The one thing about a pre-pay station ... if you need gas, and that is the only place open/near ... you dont HAVE to like it. Just have to (pre)pay it ... :lol:

[Bassmatt]

If they didn't turn up how could he show them where he lived. Exactly!

You will probably find that there was not a unit able to be sent at that time.

He knows who it was its not like they had to rush there to catch the guy in the act or pursue him. They could have attended to it the following day or the next.

They never turn up according to the owner, this has happened multiple times he says they just dont seem interested

[BoristheBiter]

He knows who it was its not like they had to rush there to catch the guy in the act or pursue him. They could have attended to it the following day or the next.

They never turn up according to the owner, this has happened multiple times he says they just dont seem interested

Then he should call the inquiry unit for what ever area he is in as it will go to them if it is after the fact.

[Bassmatt]

Would they come if I stole from the petrol station shop or took money from the till?
I think they would, whats the difference theft is theft? The more I think about it the more the "legal loophole" idea is beginning to make sense.

[Scuba_Steve]

Would they come if I stole from the petrol station shop or took money from the till?
I think they would, whats the difference theft is theft? The more I think about it the more the "legal loophole" idea is beginning to make sense.

Working previous in retail, if we had a theft it's was faster for us to get Chubb from across town (about 10mins) then it was to get a cop to put down his donut & walk across the road, in-fact the fastest we ever got a cop was 1:45hr... 1 hour & 45mins to put down the donut & walk across the road (yes we were literally across a 2-lane road from the cop shop) 1hr & 45mins it took them to walk 40m. Actually I don't think they even walked, they brought the car

So I would not be at all surprised if it is just the cops just not doing their jobs, I have had this problem with them many a time.

[Bassmatt]

So I would not be at all surprised if it is just the cops just not doing their jobs, I have had this problem with them many a time.

I wouldnt be surprised either but as you say they do turn up eventually. In the case I am talking about they have never come to even talk with the owner about it. This is a very small sleepy place, kinda surprising they even have a local Policeman and I cant imagine there is bugger all else to do, except hand out speeding tickets of course ;). Which is kinda ironic cos plenty of locals complain about the speed he drives around the place.
C'mon "coppas" fess up!

[SMOKEU]

I think there is something to this. I know of another G.A.S station in a very small town where they get the odd drive off. The Police have never turned up after a call has been made and this includes a case where the owner told police he knew the name of the drive off-er and could even show them where he lived.
Does seem a bit strange it is theft after all.

If someone does a fuel drive off and the store clerk calls the cops, then comms will usually issue a 10-1 with the vehicle description. There's not much else they can do other than chase up the registered owner of the vehicle at a later stage, assuming that the tags aren't stolen off another vehicle or deregistered.

[davereid]

I think there is something to this. I know of another G.A.S station in a very small town where they get the odd drive off. The Police have never turned up after a call has been made and this includes a case where the owner told police he knew the name of the drive off-er and could even show them where he lived.
Does seem a bit strange it is theft after all.

I know.

He should have said the person may possibly have violated copyright laws in another country.

Then the police would have sent two helicopters full of armed men, who would have kicked down every door they could find, and hold all the nannys and mums at gunpoint for two hours cos they might have hand-grenades in their bras.

[BoristheBiter]

I know.

He should have said the person may possibly have violated copyright laws in another country.

Then the police would have sent two helicopters full of armed men, who would have kicked down every door they could find, and hold all the nannys and mums at gunpoint for two hours cos they might have hand-grenades in their bras.

Don't you mean all the guys on KB say so so it must be true.

[oneofsix]

Don't you mean all the guys on KB say so so it must be true.

Now we know you are lying. If you could get all the guys on KB to agree on anything you should be president of the universe. No chance of also getting agreement from the girls. :girlfight:

[BoristheBiter]

Now we know you are lying. If you could get all the guys on KB to agree on anything you should be president of the universe. No chance of also getting agreement from the girls. :girlfight:

:rofl:
too true.

[superman]

The other beautiful weekend the local servo was extremely busy. I managed to get a honeymooning couple a full tank for $30 :lol:

The pump I drove up next to wasn't working, so I used the hose from around the back of the pump from the honeymooning couples lane. I thought if a shell servo doesn't somehow have the ability to save previous pumps then it won't let me pump at all, but it started pumping so I put in $30 and stood in the enormous queue.

When the couple got to the cashier he charged them $30 even though they insisted they got a full tank. And I stood quietly in my place in the line holding my lip. When I got to the front of the line the look of realisation hit him hard!

And I thought to myself... hmmm maybe you should have 2 FUCKING TILLS so you don't hold everyone up on busy days standing in line behind 20 people. At least the couple left with a grin on their faces.

[avgas]

Why dont they just have remote road spikes for those who drive off?

[scissorhands]

Why dont they just have remote road spikes for those who drive off?

Yeah something should be relatively easy and low cost, not that hard to figure. An automatic bollard that rises and falls on payment etc but the problem would require standardisation across all servos, otherwise customers may prefer non bollarded forecourts due to ease

A compulsory measure would level the playing field, or a measure with no encumbrance on shop sales or customer satisfaction

Who can put their thinking cap on? An electronic engine disable would only get honest drive offs and those less premeditated thieves who dont figure out how to fool it....

[Usarka]

Maybe to prove theft you need to find the item.......

So mr copper, you say I nicked 15 liters of petrol? There's 17l in my tank, can you point out the stolen ones?

[BoristheBiter]

Who can put their thinking cap on? An electronic engine disable would only get honest drive offs and those less premeditated thieves who dont figure out how to fool it....

Most walk up to the pump with a gas can and just walk away after filling up.

[p.dath]

So what's this "legal loophole" that prevents you from going after drive-offs (petrol thief's)???

I don't know the answer; but it may be regarded as a civil matter, rather than a criminal matter. The police don't get involved in civil recovery.

[Scuba_Steve]

I don't know the answer; but it may be regarded as a civil matter, rather than a criminal matter. The police don't get involved in civil recovery.

I'm not sure how it would? it's still theft...
Nup, given the lack of cop response & my experience over the years I'm still putting this down to cops taking shit to avoid doing their job. Also if it were simply a civil matter a cop would have just said so by now but instead the cop shops been silent, Standard "protect your own" gang procedure.

[SMOKEU]

I don't know the answer; but it may be regarded as a civil matter, rather than a criminal matter. The police don't get involved in civil recovery.

Stealing fuel from a fuel retailer is not a civil matter. It's a criminal offence.

[meteor]

Stealing fuel from a fuel retailer is not a civil matter. It's a criminal offence.

Is it though, isn't it one of those funny ones like a restaurant where the 'purchaser' by his/her actions enters into a contract to pay but when he doesn't it is a cost recover matter i.e. civil rather than if he she just walked in and stole something?

[SMOKEU]

Is it though, isn't it one of those funny ones like a restaurant where the 'purchaser' by his/her actions enters into a contract to pay but when he doesn't it is a cost recover matter i.e. civil rather than if he she just walked in and stole something?

If you walk into a restaurant and have a feed, then leave without paying it's the same thing as filling your car up with fuel and driving off. Theft.

If you arrange with the restaurant manager or petrol station manager to pay at a later date because you ran out of cash then it's not theft as you haven't deliberately attempted to "do a runner". It then becomes a civil matter.

In other words, it's theft (a criminal offence) if you do a runner but it becomes a civil matter if you make alternative arrangements at the time with the other party to pay later. So if your EFTPOS or credit card gets declined or you open your wallet and don't have enough cash then it's not theft because you've attempted to pay, but if you then do a runner after the card is declined without making alternative arrangements with the other party that they agree to, it becomes theft.

Once at a petrol station I saw a sign saying that if you have added fuel to your vehicle but can't afford to pay for it you must leave the vehicle at the servo and give the staff the key to the vehicle, and the vehicle will be returned once the fuel has been paid for in full.

[p.dath]

Is it though, isn't it one of those funny ones like a restaurant where the 'purchaser' by his/her actions enters into a contract to pay but when he doesn't it is a cost recover matter i.e. civil rather than if he she just walked in and stole something?

I think you might be onto something here.

Stealing is when you take something without the other parties consent. Consider shoplifting. A person goes into a store, and takes something without the stores knowledge (unless they get caught).

In this case, the service station has consented to supply the fuel. They want you to put petrol in your vehicle. They knew you were getting the fuel. They can see you doing it via their computer and their video cameras. There is no effort made to stop the supply of that petrol.

HOWEVER, when you drive off you have now clearly created a dispute over the PAYMENT. Which would make it a civil matter. And even if the person did it with intent, I think it would be fraud, not theft. This is the definition of fraud:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM330275.html

240 Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception
(1) Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,—
(a) obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or
(b) in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or
(c) induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or
(d) causes loss to any other person.
(2) In this section, deception means—
(a) a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and—
(i) knows that it is false in a material particular; or
(ii) is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or
(b) an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or
(c) a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person.

If is like using a cheque to pay for the petrol (if you could still do that), and then the cheque bounces. The same implied consent exists for the supply of the petrol - but a civil dispute has now been created over the default in payment.


Al pretty tenuous in my eyes though. Personally if it was me, and I was the service station owner, I would ring the Police but I think you would have to lay a claim of fraud - not theft, and that may solve the problem.

[p.dath]

Is it though, isn't it one of those funny ones like a restaurant where the 'purchaser' by his/her actions enters into a contract to pay but when he doesn't it is a cost recover matter i.e. civil rather than if he she just walked in and stole something?

I think you might be onto something here.

Stealing is when you take something without the other parties consent. Consider shoplifting. A person goes into a store, and takes something without the stores knowledge (unless they get caught).

In this case, the service station has consented to supply the fuel. They want you to put petrol in your vehicle. They knew you were getting the fuel. They can see you doing it via their computer and their video cameras. There is no effort made to stop the supply of that petrol.

HOWEVER, when you drive off you have now clearly created a dispute over the PAYMENT. Which would make it a civil matter. And even if the person did it with intent, I think it would be fraud, not theft. This is the definition of fraud:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM330275.html

240 Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception
(1) Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,—
(a) obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or
(b) in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or
(c) induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or
(d) causes loss to any other person.
(2) In this section, deception means—
(a) a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and—
(i) knows that it is false in a material particular; or
(ii) is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or
(b) an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or
(c) a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person.

If is like using a cheque to pay for the petrol (if you could still do that), and then the cheque bounces. The same implied consent exists for the supply of the petrol - but a civil dispute has now been created over the default in payment.


Al pretty tenuous in my eyes though. Personally if it was me, and I was the service station owner, I would ring the Police but I think you would have to lay a claim of fraud - not theft, and that may solve the problem.

[Scuba_Steve]

A big difference should be the intent, these people clearly had no intent of paying. It's not like the petrol wasn't upto their standard so they had a dispute about the price, they just straight up had no intention of paying I call that theft.
after all where do you draw the line? someone walks into harvey normans for a laptop, staff member grabs 1 for them, they don't like the price & take off with it, should that too be a civil dispute???

[SMOKEU]

HOWEVER, when you drive off you have now clearly created a dispute over the PAYMENT. Which would make it a civil matter. And even if the person did it with intent, I think it would be fraud, not theft. This is the definition of fraud:


Then why did I keep hearing comms issue a 10-1 over the channel 1 police radio whenever someone did a fuel drive off?

[onearmedbandit]

So is using the phone and internet, then not paying your bill a situation for the police to be called in for? Surely it's theft isn't it? I mean you 'filled up your tank' and then didn't pay for it. No, the police don't get involved, it's a civil matter. It's the same (to the best of my knowledge) as drive-offs from petrol stations. You may get followed up by the police (it is a good reason after all to pull someone over, they may have other stolen goods with them or be wanted on other matters) but you won't be charged with theft as such. The service station will take action through debt collectors. Same as your phone/internet provider.

[Hoon]

I did a drive off the other day. Walked inside and prepaid my money then went back to my car and drove off without taking any gas DOH!!!:facepalm:

[onearmedbandit]

I did a drive off the other day. Walked inside and prepaid my money then went back to my car and drove off without taking any gas DOH!!!:facepalm:

If this was America you could probably sue them for failing to ensure your received your product, and win with damages awarded for the stress caused by running out of fuel.

[caspernz]

I did a drive off the other day. Walked inside and prepaid my money then went back to my car and drove off without taking any gas DOH!!!:facepalm:

OK, not sure what's worse...doing this or admitting it??

EFTPOS at the pump solves the problem I would think, driveoffs go away, cops can keep eating donuts, but the Govt still thieving in the tax take...