Can an inline 4 engined bike be made to behave more like a V-twin engined bike?

[Tigadee]

I know that the inline 4 will have more top-end power and needs to be revved really high in order to get moving, and I did enjoy the Zeal which had such an engine but I found riding it a chore when in town. It never really moved smoothly on busy/slow roads and only seemed happy on the motorway - which suited me fine most of the time since I commuted to work mostly on motorways.

Now, if I were to buy another inline 4 bike, I'd like one that behaved like a torquey V-twin about town and then like a bullet when on the motorway. Is there such a beast?

If not, is there a way to make one [e.g. a Hornet 250] more like a town bike while being OK to good for motorway travel. I travel within the speed limit so there's no need for the Hornet to go 180kph...

[quickbuck]

I know that the inline 4 will have more top-end power and needs to be revved really high in order to get moving, and I did enjoy the Zeal which had such an engine but I found riding it a chore when in town. It never really moved smoothly on busy/slow roads and only seemed happy on the motorway - which suited me fine most of the time since I commuted to work mostly on motorways.

Now, if I were to buy another inline 4 bike, I'd like one that behaved like a torquey V-twin about town and then like a bullet when on the motorway. Is there such a beast?

If not, is there a way to make one [e.g. a Hornet 250] more like a town bike while being OK to good for motorway travel. I travel within the speed limit so there's no need for the Hornet to go 180kph...

Isn't that the whole point of the Flat Plain Crank (Big Bang, some call it....) Yamaha R1?

To get that out of a Hornet, will mean too many mods to make it worth it.... Just get a VFR... OR, you could try putting a VFR motor in the Hornet?

In the old days, you put a 4 into 2 into 1 header set on for low down torque, or 4 into 1 for top end power... (Or was somebody feeding me a line??)

[sil3nt]

The hornet 250 is already tuned for more bottom end compared to the CBR 250R(R) that shares the same engine. I would be very surprised if a hornet was terrible around town. I would say it needs a good service if not smooth around town.

[mattian]

Most of your naked Street bikes are tuned for grunty around town riding, and still quick on the open road. Sure, not as quick on the open road as your sport bikes, but how fast do you really need to go? the speed limits only 100 remember :innocent:

[nzspokes]

Just rev it harder.

[avgas]

Yep. Easiest way is to down gear it (add a tooth on the back etc).
If you wanted more you could get a 4into4 system. Allows for quicker responses (marginally).
If you wanted a twin sound you would go 2 into 2.
Crossplane the crank.

Or you could just buy a twin.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I know that the inline 4 will have more top-end power and needs to be revved really high in order to get moving, and I did enjoy the Zeal which had such an engine but I found riding it a chore when in town. It never really moved smoothly on busy/slow roads and only seemed happy on the motorway - which suited me fine most of the time since I commuted to work mostly on motorways.

Now, if I were to buy another inline 4 bike, I'd like one that behaved like a torquey V-twin about town and then like a bullet when on the motorway. Is there such a beast?

If not, is there a way to make one [e.g. a Hornet 250] more like a town bike while being OK to good for motorway travel. I travel within the speed limit so there's no need for the Hornet to go 180kph...

crossplane crank R1

sorted.

[FJRider]

Isn't that the whole point of the Flat Plain Crank (Big Bang, some call it....) Yamaha R1?

To get that out of a Hornet, will mean too many mods to make it worth it.... Just get a VFR... OR, you could try putting a VFR motor in the Hornet?

In the old days, you put a 4 into 2 into 1 header set on for low down torque, or 4 into 1 for top end power... (Or was somebody feeding me a line??)

The whole idea of the different style engines ... was for a different intended style of riding ... wasn't it ... ??? Better to have TWO BIKES ...

I have heard of fours converted to the "big bang" twins firing order ... but as you say ... a lot of work/money to achieve ???

[James Deuce]

The real advice: Stop obsessing about making a 250 better and wait for your license to mature. Then go and buy something that fits the bill.

ANY attempted modification process entered into to get the performance you are talking about will require so much money that you may as well go out and burn a couple of thousand dollars. It will be less expensive in the long run. Including making other engines fit the Hornet 250's chassis.

[James Deuce]

In the old days, you put a 4 into 2 into 1 header set on for low down torque, or 4 into 1 for top end power... (Or was somebody feeding me a line??)

Someone was feeding you a line. All aftermarket exhaust "systems" result in reduced performance unless every aspect of "suck, bang, blow" is addressed to match the potential gains of improving exhaust performance.

[jrandom]

The real advice: Stop obsessing about making a 250 better and wait for your license to mature. Then go and buy something that fits the bill.

What he said.

[ducatilover]

Isn't that the whole point of the Flat Plain Crank (Big Bang, some call it....) Yamaha R1?

Flat plane is what your CBR600 has and so do the majority of 2/4/8 cylinders :cool: The R1 is a cross plane crank.

To get a 4cyl acting like a twin, you'd need to either, get really boring cam profiles (not ones designed for 16,000+rpm) and probably go with a big bang set up. Would cost a wee bit, have looked in to the idea myself for a laugh and seems if you have wasted spark ignition it's a matter of having the cams made to sync cylinders 1-4 and 2-3 together.

I'd love to try it on a small motor, just because.

[Tigadee]

Thanks everyone, you've pulled me from the abyss...

I shall wait for my full and then hunt for something appropriate riding-style-wise and suitable physically [as most if not all of these naked/sport 250s are too small for me, even the Hornet 250]. Luckily my Kymco Venox aka Honda Magna will do me fine, as well as the Scorpio while I still have it...

[avgas]

Someone was feeding you a line. All aftermarket exhaust "systems" result in reduced performance unless every aspect of "suck, bang, blow" is addressed to match the potential gains of improving exhaust performance.
Actually the weight savings alone on some pipes made a huge difference.
Many XS, GS, Goldwing, Z1 and other owners can attest to that fact.
I remember reading somewhere that on the Moriwaki Z they saved 4kgs just in the exhaust. Likewise the the old XS850 would handle corners much better when you went 3 into 1 rather than 2+1 into 2.

Not to mention how starved some of the standard exhaust systems are. My poor GB had an outlet smaller than the carbs inlet. Sure HP wise would not have made a major diff.......but you gotta wonder if that bottleneck helps or hinders?

[quickbuck]

Flat plane is what your CBR600 has and so do the majority of 2/4/8 cylinders :cool: The R1 is a cross plane crank.



Sh!t... That was a BAD spelling mistake!
That's what i meant.

[hayd3n]

The real advice: Stop obsessing about making a 250 better and wait for your license to mature. Then go and buy something that fits the bill.

ANY attempted modification process entered into to get the performance you are talking about will require so much money that you may as well go out and burn a couple of thousand dollars. It will be less expensive in the long run. Including making other engines fit the Hornet 250's chassis.

you can fit a vtr 1000cc motor in a 600/900 hornet frame


The chassis has the measure of the opposition, too. The frame is almost identical to the Hornet 600's, with a little extra strengthening. Interestingly, in a move that will allow Honda greater flexibility in deciding its model line-up, the spine frame is designed to accept a wide range of engines with only a modification to the front mounting rail. It was pointed out, without any direct suggestion that this will actually happen, that the VTR1000 engine would fit straight in. As would the SP1 superbike motor; enterprising specials builders should take note
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorbikes/2715643/Heres-one-to-give-you-a-buzz.html
:bleh: and also a

cbr900rr engine

[raziel1983]

I know that the inline 4 will have more top-end power and needs to be revved really high in order to get moving, and I did enjoy the Zeal which had such an engine but I found riding it a chore when in town. It never really moved smoothly on busy/slow roads and only seemed happy on the motorway - which suited me fine most of the time since I commuted to work mostly on motorways.

Now, if I were to buy another inline 4 bike, I'd like one that behaved like a torquey V-twin about town and then like a bullet when on the motorway. Is there such a beast?

If not, is there a way to make one [e.g. a Hornet 250] more like a town bike while being OK to good for motorway travel. I travel within the speed limit so there's no need for the Hornet to go 180kph...

GSX1400 or Bandit 1250 are ALL about bottom end, and a smooth one at that.

[Tigadee]

Thanks, will look into them when on full license... :yes:

[slofox]

Thanks, will look into them when on full license... :yes:

The K8 (and later) Gixxer six has plenty of torque from 6k upwards. I use mine to commute on quite happily. It'll idle along at 4k round town without squaring up the bearings. Tractible as a pussycat. Oh and it'll rev it's nuts off on the highway as well of course if you want it to. Not that I'd ever do anything naughty you unnerstand....

Coming from an SVS to the gixxer was the best swap I ever made.

[Drew]

Someone was feeding you a line. All aftermarket exhaust "systems" result in reduced performance unless every aspect of "suck, bang, blow" is addressed to match the potential gains of improving exhaust performance.I gotta disagree on that one.

The first of the big block Suzuki Bandits, were advertised by Suzuki to get a 10-15% increase in power, and a massive torque jump by sinply fitting a pipe. No other mods required. One of the few bikes on the market, where owners would swear it wasn't the same bike after the can was swapped.

No the norm though.

[Drew]

Big bang can be achieved on a standard crank by have cams made. As "big bang" is actually two cylinders firing at the same time. Cross plane needs a crank and cams made.

It's a waste of time though, just wait till your allowed and buy something that fits your style.

[yachtie10]

Thanks, will look into them when on full license... :yes:

if you get on with it i will have one for sale in a few weeks
:msn-wink:

[otter]

When you get a bigger bike (for example ZX6RR which is apparently highly strung). The low down power doesn't matter so much since there's still plenty for town riding. In town I rarely get my revs above 5000 (red line at 15500) because there's no need. On the motorway, if you're doing 100kmph you don't need to go over 5000RPMish in 6th gear and you can just putt along just fine, with more power than the average car too.

[Tigadee]

Well, I guess most inline 4s are high strung? I tried out a Hornet yesterday and it behaved much like the Zeal, just a light twist of the throttle and it jerked forward, AND howled like a mad banshee! :devil2:

Mind you, maybe I'm just a poor rider! But I have no trouble getting smooth movements with the Scorpio and Venox though - one's a single and the other's a V-twin.

[Tigadee]

If you wanted more you could get a 4into4 system. Allows for quicker responses (marginally).
If you wanted a twin sound you would go 2 into 2.

What's you take on this? A 4 into 4?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-452744817.htm

What's this gonna perform like?

[GrayWolf]

I know that the inline 4 will have more top-end power and needs to be revved really high in order to get moving, and I did enjoy the Zeal which had such an engine but I found riding it a chore when in town. It never really moved smoothly on busy/slow roads and only seemed happy on the motorway - which suited me fine most of the time since I commuted to work mostly on motorways.

Now, if I were to buy another inline 4 bike, I'd like one that behaved like a torquey V-twin about town and then like a bullet when on the motorway. Is there such a beast?

If not, is there a way to make one [e.g. a Hornet 250] more like a town bike while being OK to good for motorway travel. I travel within the speed limit so there's no need for the Hornet to go 180kph...

I'd completely agree with Mr Deuce. Wait for your license to mature. A serious option to consider for what you say you require would be the Yammie fazer FZ6R, I had one on loan while my bike was in the 'dock' and it was a very useful wee bike and a pleasure to ride....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/138660-Yamaha-FZ6R-the-UJM-is-dead-long-live-the-UJM?highlight=FZ6R

[Tigadee]

Thanks, GW. I will wait till my 6F and consider a FZ6 or similar. I was looking at a 1992 Yamaha Radian 600 (with the XJ600 engine, I was told) and a beautiful 1992 Honda CB750 Nighthawk but the worry of parts made me drop them further down the wish list. I like that classic style of road bike... :love:

[GrayWolf]

Thanks, GW. I will wait till my 6F and consider a FZ6 or similar. I was looking at a 1992 Yamaha Radian 600 (with the XJ600 engine, I was told) and a beautiful 1992 Honda CB750 Nighthawk but the worry of parts made me drop them further down the wish list. I like that classic style of road bike... :love:

out of the two? and price right? I'd go the Radian.... It's based on the old XJ series motor, the XJ600 in its various forms (last was the diversion 600) have been seen to rack up 100,000+

[Dave-]

Having a laugh at the people that think you can just "put" a cross plane crank in an IL4.

What James Deuce said, wait for your full then buy whatever you want.

[ducatilover]

Having a laugh at the people that think you can just "put" a cross plane crank in an IL4.

What James Deuce said, wait for your full then buy whatever you want.
It could be done... with the right amount of money.

[Drew]

Having a laugh at the people that think you can just "put" a cross plane crank in an IL4.

What James Deuce said, wait for your full then buy whatever you want.


It could be done... with the right amount of money.

Cost probably wouldn't be that prohibitive. The crank need only be pressed apart and then back together in the right order, and cams made.

On a 250cc motor though, there would be no point at all. It aint like 25 horses stress a tyre to the point that it needs a longer rest pulse.

[DEATH_INC.]

They don't do many press together cranks now Drew. But it isn't that expensive to have one made (depending on what you call expensive...)
Just supercharge the little bugger, cheaper and more go at all rpm....

[ducatilover]

On a 250cc motor though, there would be no point at all. It aint like 25 horses stress a tyre to the point that it needs a longer rest pulse.
Only worth it if there's a possibility of more revs I suppose... over 24thou should do the trick :sweatdrop Imagine the poor guy who gets asked to make valve springs that'll handle that...or balance the crank...

I think DEATH_INC is on to it, EFI, S/C and a hefty shot o' NOS should see a few rods to the crotch fairly fast

[Drew]

Just supercharge the little bugger, cheaper and more go at all rpm....

You could be onto something there.

[Fast Eddie]

You could be onto something there.

nos, its cheap. you can make a tank out of an old fire extinguisher, couple solenoids and jets and fuel pump off ebay and ur away.. and a button. go baby go

[ducatilover]

nos, its cheap. you can make a tank out of an old fire extinguisher, couple solenoids and jets and fuel pump off ebay and ur away.. and a button. go baby go BANG


Sorted :yes:

[Fast Eddie]

:crazy::yes:

[Drew]

Sorted :yes:


Shuddup box 'ead.

[ducatilover]

Shuddup box 'ead.
I'll do the NOS kit, you take the piston in the dick during a 12o-clock wheelie (I would, but we know I fall off) :innocent:

[Drew]

I'll do the NOS kit, you take the piston in the dick during a 12o-clock wheelie (I would, but we know I fall off) :innocent:
I wouldn't go anywhere near the nos button while doing a wheelie. But you build it, and I'll ride it for sure!

[ducatilover]

I wouldn't go anywhere near the nos button while doing a wheelie. But you build it, and I'll ride it for sure!
Fuck, I've been thwarted.

[Drew]

Fuck, I've been thwarted.
Even more betterer. You Nos my RF, and I'll ride it.

[ducatilover]

Even more betterer. You Nos my RF, and I'll ride it.
Only if I can ride it without the funny gas?

[Drew]

Only if I can ride it without the funny gas?Sure, it's pretty unexciting unless you've got serious personal issues.

[ducatilover]

Sure, it's pretty unexciting unless you've got serious personal issues.
I'd find it pretty awesome then! :yes:

[pritch]

The real advice: Stop obsessing about making a 250 better and wait for your license to mature. Then go and buy something that fits the bill.

ANY attempted modification process entered into to get the performance you are talking about will require so much money that you may as well go out and burn a couple of thousand dollars. It will be less expensive in the long run. Including making other engines fit the Hornet 250's chassis.

Wot he said, unless the op can knock up a new crankshaft in his shed. Better to save the sheckels for the next bike.

[Tigadee]

Well, I got a Yamaha XJ400 [thanks to my exemption from the NZTA] and it seems to be a pretty mild beast, perfect for me. Also perfect size-wise too, lot more comfortable for my 6' 1" and 110kgs.

It's pretty smooth and gentle [yet fairly responsive] power-wise, and even the seats and suspension are soft. I feel like I'm floating over bumps and potholes! Definitely a touring set-up! No hard cornering for me, I reckon, especially since the rear tyre's a newish cruiser tyre from Kenda - Anyone heard of them? Seems they are a bicycle tyre maker and now make motorcycle tyres too for cruisers and sports bikes. Front is a nice new Lasertec from Metzler.

Need to send the bike for a cut and polish like NZspokes's GPZ400 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/147481-Cut-and-polish-your-bike-You-re-doing-it-wrong-or-at-least-I-have-been), paint is looking rather dull. Photos once that's done.

Rims are powder-coated, and sadly have a lot of chips. Should I have them painted? If so, will the powder coating need to be removed or can I paint over it?

[Drew]

Well, I got a Yamaha XJ400 [thanks to my exemption from the NZTA] and it seems to be a pretty mild beast, perfect for me. Also perfect size-wise too, lot more comfortable for my 6' 1" and 110kgs.

It's pretty smooth and gentle [yet fairly responsive] power-wise, and even the seats and suspension are soft. I feel like I'm floating over bumps and potholes! Definitely a touring set-up! No hard cornering for me, I reckon, especially since the rear tyre's a newish cruiser tyre from Kenda - Anyone heard of them? Seems they are a bicycle tyre maker and now make motorcycle tyres too for cruisers and sports bikes. Front is a nice new Lasertec from Metzler.

Need to send the bike for a cut and polish like NZspokes's GPZ400 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/147481-Cut-and-polish-your-bike-You-re-doing-it-wrong-or-at-least-I-have-been), paint is looking rather dull. Photos once that's done.

Rims are powder-coated, and sadly have a lot of chips. Should I have them painted? If so, will the powder coating need to be removed or can I paint over it?Kenda have made bike tyres for a long time, but they're not overly good. You will be waiting a long time for it wear out, since I think they get the rubber from Lego.

I've never bothered having the powder coating removed before painting wheels, just smooth out the chipped area and paint. Make sure you use 'etch' primer, or nothing will stick to the ally/mag composit that wheels are made of.

Sounds like the bike is ideal for you though, enjoy.

[Tigadee]

Thanks, Drew, I'm enjoying being on two wheels! ;)

[The Pastor]

mate what you want to do, is get a new sprocket and chain set (all up probs around $2-300) and go -1 tooth on the front, and +3 on the rear. You will need a new chain.

This will reduce your top end speed, but make it quicker to accelerate. I'm sure someone on here will have the gearing chart for a hornet 250.

Do it, but keep the original, if you don't like it you can put it back to stock, and at any rate you will of learned something and had fun.

[The Pastor]

I *THINK* this is a hornet 250,

http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/216

maybe you cant put on a smaller front, not sure its usually pretty common to do, but go on stick that massive rear sprocket on :D

[Drew]

You will notice if you read the last page or two, the thread starter now owns a 400cc machine.

[Jerry74]

Well, I got a Yamaha XJ400 [thanks to my exemption from the NZTA] and it seems to be a pretty mild beast, perfect for me. Also perfect size-wise too, lot more comfortable for my 6' 1" and 110kgs.

It's pretty smooth and gentle [yet fairly responsive] power-wise, and even the seats and suspension are soft. I feel like I'm floating over bumps and potholes! Definitely a touring set-up! No hard cornering for me, I reckon, especially since the rear tyre's a newish cruiser tyre from Kenda - Anyone heard of them? Seems they are a bicycle tyre maker and now make motorcycle tyres too for cruisers and sports bikes. Front is a nice new Lasertec from Metzler.

Need to send the bike for a cut and polish like NZspokes's GPZ400 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/147481-Cut-and-polish-your-bike-You-re-doing-it-wrong-or-at-least-I-have-been), paint is looking rather dull. Photos once that's done.

Rims are powder-coated, and sadly have a lot of chips. Should I have them painted? If so, will the powder coating need to be removed or can I paint over it?

All good to see you on something a wee bit bigger mate, I would personally be looking at running the same brand tyres front and rear though for even handling and cornering etc..
Pirelli, Metzlers, Michelins

The sport demon can be had for about $200 fitted and is a nice tyre.

[Drew]

All good to see you on something a wee bit bigger mate, I would personally be looking at running the same brand tyres front and rear though for even handling and cornering etc..
Pirelli, Metzlers, Michelins

The sport demon can be had for about $200 fitted and is a nice tyre.

When you don't know what you're talking about...you shouldn't be talking.


Mixing tyre brands is absolutely fine. I mix them to get the ideal performance, Racetech front and supercorser rear is the best I've had on the road. But a Shinko front and Bridgestone rear is good for touring with a few bags on the bag.

If you don't know what tyres are like, then matching pairs is a good way to keep grip levels close to each other, but it's certainly not a requirement.

[pete-blen]

been there...
If yer want a 4 cyclinder to put out the low end punch of a Vee

cut the cams in half turn them 180* and weld back togeather
put the plug leads to 1 & 3 off one coil / 2 & 4 of the other..
the motor will run as a twin.. fireing on 2 cyclinders at the same time.

DON"T try to pull the same red line as it did .. drop 2000 rpm off the red line..

I done it to a GSX750 for a TQ midget...

Gavin Sendal / Craig Webby won the NZ speedway side chair champs with a GSXR1100
running as a twin..

[ducatilover]

been there...
If yer want a 4 cyclinder to put out the low end punch of a Vee

cut the cams in half turn them 180* and weld back togeather
put the plug leads to 1 & 3 off one coil / 2 & 4 of the other..
the motor will run as a twin.. fireing on 2 cyclinders at the same time.

DON"T try to pull the same red line as it did .. drop 2000 rpm off the red line..

I done it to a GSX750 for a TQ midget...

Gavin Sendal / Craig Webby won the NZ speedway side chair champs with a GSXR1100
running as a twin..
I thought you'd have 1-2 and 2-3 together as they rods are on the same plane/pin? so 1/4 fire at the same time and 2/3 fire at the same time?

[pete-blen]

I thought you'd have 1-2 and 2-3 together as they rods are on the same plane/pin? so 1/4 fire at the same time and 2/3 fire at the same time?

LOL.....Yer prob right..was 20 odd years ago. mid 80s.. sport...:facepalm:

PS..the GSX750 has a pin for each rod with a main berring between...
To be totaly correct.. the GSX750 is a one peice crank... The GSX1100
has a componet /roller berring crank... Thats why the 1100 is such a good
motor.. the rollor berrrings are so forgiving...

[ducatilover]

LOL.....Yer prob right..was 20 years ago sport...:facepalm:
I still really want to do it to a small motor, goodness knows why :pinch:

[pete-blen]

I still really want to do it to a small motor, goodness knows why :pinch:

Do it...
pretty easy to do the cams... tig welder/vee blocks/dial gauges
& a lot of time setting up.. I used the bed on a mill to set up on as its a true surface..

[ducatilover]

Do it...
pretty easy to do the cams... tig welder/vee blocks/dial gauges
& a lot of time setting up.. I used the bed on a mill to set up on as its a true surface..
If I found another two motors for my bike I'd big bang one. The other will have a turbo, so that'll go bang too :D

[Jerry74]

When you don't know what you're talking about...you shouldn't be talking.


Mixing tyre brands is absolutely fine. I mix them to get the ideal performance, Racetech front and supercorser rear is the best I've had on the road. But a Shinko front and Bridgestone rear is good for touring with a few bags on the bag.

If you don't know what tyres are like, then matching pairs is a good way to keep grip levels close to each other, but it's certainly not a requirement.

If you actually took the time to read my post it says PERSONALLY!!! MY OPINION... The tyre manufacturers themselves won't recommend mixing tread patterns, even within their own.

It's not because they want you to just buy two of their tyres instead of just one, either (although they do...LOL)

Tyres are designed and built to work as a set. The tread designs themselves compliment one another when dealing with dispersing water and with mechanical grip. The internal constructions of the tyres front and rear are different (due to the geometrical and physical characteristics of a moving motorcycle), yet they also compliment one another.

Having different tyre brands on the front and rear may have unknown issues (things like handling, wear, etc.). There is no realistic way a tyre manufacturer can test all the possible combinations to make sure they are all safe, so as a blanket method of "CYA" they will just say no...but at the same time it does make sense.

It would be best to wait and be able to change both tyres to the same brand if at all possible...the added benefit is that you really get a better idea of how the new tyres truly perform as a set for you if you are switching brands.

Take note of other peoples opinions who have been riding for 20 years and may just know a wee bit too.

[Fast Eddie]

Tyres are designed and built to work as a set. The tread designs themselves compliment one another when dealing with dispersing water and with mechanical grip. The internal constructions of the tyres front and rear are different (due to the geometrical and physical characteristics of a moving motorcycle), yet they also compliment one another.

hehe I read the bridgestone brochure, it sounded just like that :D

but yea, I also buy matching tyre set when spending cash, but I do end up with an odd rear towards the end of the sets life, i go thru the matching rear quicker than the front and usually fit a used rear off trademe or whatever until the expensive front is gone too and then buy a new set again.

never had probs, any peculiar handling is just what I need to liven up my day anyway.

but matching tyres are sweet

[Fast Eddie]

been there...
If yer want a 4 cyclinder to put out the low end punch of a Vee

cut the cams in half turn them 180* and weld back togeather
put the plug leads to 1 & 3 off one coil / 2 & 4 of the other..
the motor will run as a twin.. fireing on 2 cyclinders at the same time.


Gavin Sendal / Craig Webby won the NZ speedway side chair champs with a GSXR1100
running as a twin..

this sounds awesome - noted for future build

[Tigadee]

been there...
If yer want a 4 cyclinder to put out the low end punch of a Vee
cut the cams in half turn them 180* and weld back togeather
put the plug leads to 1 & 3 off one coil / 2 & 4 of the other..
the motor will run as a twin.. fireing on 2 cyclinders at the same time.
DON"T try to pull the same red line as it did .. drop 2000 rpm off the red line..

:blink:Too much work...

Couldn't I just pull out two of the plugs? That'd make it a 2-cyl, right? :laugh:

[Drew]

If you actually took the time to read my post it says PERSONALLY!!! MY OPINION... The tyre manufacturers themselves won't recommend mixing tread patterns, even within their own.

It's not because they want you to just buy two of their tyres instead of just one, either (although they do...LOL)

Tyres are designed and built to work as a set. The tread designs themselves compliment one another when dealing with dispersing water and with mechanical grip. The internal constructions of the tyres front and rear are different (due to the geometrical and physical characteristics of a moving motorcycle), yet they also compliment one another.Oh yeah, so how do they compliment each other, and I REALLY want to know how the tyres effect how the other one moves water? Saying they do it is one thing, saying how they do it is where EVERY manufacturer just baffles with bullshit.


Having different tyre brands on the front and rear may have unknown issues (things like handling, wear, etc.). There is no realistic way a tyre manufacturer can test all the possible combinations to make sure they are all safe, so as a blanket method of "CYA" they will just say no...but at the same time it does make sense.Have you actually tried mixing and matching tyres? I don't mean anyone should fit a Supercorser slick to the front, and a Kenda to the rear, but if they are both touring/sports/hypersport or what ever, it is ALL whatever works best for the rider.


It would be best to wait and be able to change both tyres to the same brand if at all possible...the added benefit is that you really get a better idea of how the new tyres truly perform as a set for you if you are switching brands.

Take note of other peoples opinions who have been riding for 20 years and may just know a wee bit too.


Bwahahahahahaha, you clearly haven't consideredd what I said either. Pot, meet kettle.

I was probably a bit rude with my opening comment, but your post validates it.

Guys like you are the reason I've been able to try so many combinations, (and we're talking fuckin dozens here). You buy in sets thinking it's the best thing to do, for no other reason than it's what you've been told, and given no evidence as to why.

It aint my money to waste, so go right ahead and swallow the marketing whole if you want.

[Jerry74]

Yes I have mixed in the past GSXR did not handle nearly as well or track as well as with a matching set, each to their own mate but for the most consistent handling matching sets are the best.

PS no offense taken it wouldn't be Kiwibiker if we could not handle a bit of stick from each other.

[GrayWolf]

If you actually took the time to read my post it says PERSONALLY!!! MY OPINION... The tyre manufacturers themselves won't recommend mixing tread patterns, even within their own.
of course they dont, it would be like Holden saying put a Ford motor in our car, it'll go better..they want you to remain 'brand loyal' you answer your own reason with the comment below .

It's not because they want you to just buy two of their tyres instead of just one, either (although they do...LOL)


Tyres are designed and built to work as a set. The tread designs themselves compliment one another when dealing with dispersing water and with mechanical grip. The internal constructions of the tyres front and rear are different (due to the geometrical and physical characteristics of a moving motorcycle), yet they also compliment one another.
yes they do, to a point, personal example. I have an FJ1200 in the garage, heavy, old school suspension and has handling 'quirks' that are well documented. many modern tyres are constructed with the modern bike in mind not heavy old dinosaurs like the FJ.. Tyre issues? Rear tyre was a 'semi radial' OEM, when compared to modern day ones.. the sidewall is very pronounced (deep) which allows a fair amount of sidewall flexing and it IS noticeable. Trying Diablo's on the front the weight and elderly styled suspension just ripped it to pieces in less than 6k, and we are not talking hard out riding either.
Best handling from that bike was gained BY mixing brands,,, using the Dunlop series produced for very high loads (Harley specific) on the rear. (Highly rigid carcass which immediately felt more planted on the raod compared to even the dual compound tyres for Wings etc). and a standard diablo or dual compound touring tyre on the front.


Having different tyre brands on the front and rear may have unknown issues (things like handling, wear, etc.). There is no realistic way a tyre manufacturer can test all the possible combinations to make sure they are all safe, so as a blanket method of "CYA" they will just say no...but at the same time it does make sense.
What is far more likely to produce an issue is the profile difference between the fitted tyres, which can also be used to improve a bikes handling characteristics. Again using the FJ example: long low heavy, will run out wide on bends, stands up under braking into bends... so a sportier profile tyre on the front has an advantage, it will allow a 'drop in' effect, which helps to counter the stand up under braking. With the rear profile I found the flatter tyres no issue to handling, in fact the chicken strips were pretty even between both tyres... So there is how mixing tyres can have an advantageous outcome.

It would be best to wait and be able to change both tyres to the same brand if at all possible...the added benefit is that you really get a better idea of how the new tyres truly perform as a set for you if you are switching brands.

Take note of other peoples opinions who have been riding for 20 years and may just know a wee bit too.

As above, sometimes people who have ridden almost 38yrs continuously may know just a wee bit too, but then I admit to knowing bugger all :shifty:

[gatch]

Been riding for 11 years. I've forgotten more than I ever learned.. :pinch:

I fit matching sets to my current bike. For the simple reason that these is fuck all choice for a 150 profile 18" tire. So if I have the stickiest of the icky tire on the back, I put the stickiest of the icky on the front to keep it in line.

However one day I may find an IRC rear and keep the a12h front. For a bit of drift fun at manfield..

[Tigadee]

:sweatdrop I have no idea about Kenda, but my main concern is that it says "Cruiser" while the front is a Metzler Lasertec (a well-known and respected tyre).

Now I don't go to the track and I consider myself a mild-mannered sensible rider, so with that in mind, do I really have to change the Kenda? It's new too, as is the Metzler, so it seems a shame to do that. I'd much prefer to change the rear shock first, as that stands out to me most, being a soft 'floaty' suspension.

[ducatilover]

You might find that the Kenda is not very nice and confidence inspiring in the wet. If you're not a speedy bugger you won't run out of grip in the dry.

I'd change it just because it's an ugly tyre :facepalm:

[Drew]

Here's how I roll. There's tread, it'll pass a warrant, I'll live with it. I'm a tight bastard.

If you have a skill set to know when the tyre is at it's limits you're fine on the Kenda. Christ, 99% of the time you're not in a situation that will cause the tyre to let go, but if the shit hits the fan, it will let go and not grab again.

Rear end letting go is by far the most preferable way to fall off though, least likely to cause injury.

[gatch]

Here's how I roll. There's tread, it'll pass a warrant, I'll live with it. I'm a tight bastard.

If you have a skill set to know when the tyre is at it's limits you're fine on the Kenda. Christ, 99% of the time you're not in a situation that will cause the tyre to let go, but if the shit hits the fan, it will let go and not grab again.

Rear end letting go is by far the most preferable way to fall off though, least likely to cause injury.

Agreed. On the race track at least it's not really that big of a deal to feel the back end sliding around. When the front starts to go that's when the old anus does it's impression of a camera lens.

[pete-blen]

:blink:Too much work...

Couldn't I just pull out two of the plugs? That'd make it a 2-cyl, right? :laugh:

And use the 2 spare cylinders as a supercharger:yes:

[Tigadee]

If you're not a speedy bugger you won't run out of grip in the dry.

Speedy bugger I am not. I just hope that's enough when it's wet...


I'd change it just because it's an ugly tyre

Ah, then it's fine paired with me then... LOL


If you have a skill set to know when the tyre is at it's limits you're fine on the Kenda. Christ, 99% of the time you're not in a situation that will cause the tyre to let go, but if the shit hits the fan, it will let go and not grab again. Rear end letting go is by far the most preferable way to fall off though, least likely to cause injury.

OK, thanks for that info... *scribbling in notebook*


Agreed. On the race track at least it's not really that big of a deal to feel the back end sliding around. When the front starts to go that's when the old anus does it's impression of a camera lens.

Like this? :sunny: Or like this? :shutup:


And use the 2 spare cylinders as a supercharger:yes:

:laugh: I like that idea!

[ducatilover]

Should be fine if you ride like me in the wet (I'm average ish in the wet, don't like being fast when it's slippery)

[Drew]

And use the 2 spare cylinders as a supercharger:yes:I think this has been done a bit, but is too inefficient to make any gains. I could be wrong though, I dismissed the idea on the grounds that, there is no substitute for cubes!

[ducatilover]

I think this has been done a bit, but is too inefficient to make any gains. I could be wrong though, I dismissed the idea on the grounds that, there is no substitute for cubes!

Usually won't work well because the pulse is out of sync with two of four cylinders

[Tigadee]

Got a question about my XJ400 - It sounds like a buzzsaw, where is it likely to be coming from? Any ex-XJ400 owners who might know? (OK that's two questions...)

It almost sounds like a loose fairing, but there's none that I can see or feel. Could it be the exhaust? Or the engine?

What can I do about it?

[ducatilover]

Does it get worse when you go faster, or with engine revs, or with engine load?

[avgas]

I think this has been done a bit, but is too inefficient to make any gains. I could be wrong though, I dismissed the idea on the grounds that, there is no substitute for cubes!
Yep there is...
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/01/12/ducati-v-one-twin-to-supercharged-single-conversion/

[Tigadee]

Does it get worse when you go faster...

It's pretty constant throughout, though at faster speeds it's a bit harder to hear it but it's still there.


...or with engine revs, or with engine load?

What's the diff between the two? :confused:

[ducatilover]

It's pretty constant throughout, though at faster speeds it's a bit harder to hear it but it's still there.



What's the diff between the two? :confused:

Load is the amount of throttle. Big throttle at low/mid rpm will be big load, like going up hills, doing skids...;)
Is it making the noise when you're not moving?
If not, check the chain, chain guard and overflow/vent hoses under the bike.

[Tigadee]

Load is the amount of throttle. Big throttle at low/mid rpm will be big load, like going up hills, doing skids...;)

Oh, thanks.

I think does it in both at speed or under load. I'll have a careful listen when going home tonight...


Is it making the noise when you're not moving?

No, only when the engine is revving.

At idle, it just sounds like an un-sexy motor engine... :no:


If not, check the chain, chain guard and overflow/vent hoses under the bike.

Will do, sir... Cheers.

[ducatilover]

If it increases in frequency with the engine speed, it's a noise before the gearbox, if not it's in the running gear somewhere or just a loose fitting.
It could be cam chain tensioner rattle.

[Drew]

I'd bet a dollar, that the noise is coming from one of the chrome heat shields on the exhaust pipe. Down by the pegs like.

If I were a betting man of course.

[nodrog]

Oh, thanks.

I think does it in both at speed or under load. I'll have a careful listen when going home tonight...



No, only when the engine is revving.

At idle, it just sounds like an un-sexy motor engine... :no:



Will do, sir... Cheers.

If its as gay as a S40 Boulevard it will be the springs that hold the dash cluster into the tank, I just filled mine up with silicone.

[Tigadee]

If its as gay as a S40 Boulevard it will be the springs that hold the dash cluster into the tank, I just filled mine up with silicone.

:innocent: Not that I'm saying you're right, but I will check it...


I'd bet a dollar, that the noise is coming from one of the chrome heat shields on the exhaust pipe. Down by the pegs like.
If I were a betting man of course.

:sweatdropOf course.... *sneaking off to check heat shields*

[ducatilover]

I'd bet a dollar, that the noise is coming from one of the chrome heat shields on the exhaust pipe. Down by the pegs like.

If I were a betting man of course.

Up that to a beer, because I like beer and I'm a fool.

[Tigadee]

OK, definitely two sounds: One comes from the right exhaust pipe, somewhere inside it seems. The other from the front, either engine or dash area as Drew suggested.

Need more time to pinpoint...

[ducatilover]

Can you take your muffler off? Could be a stone in there.

[Tigadee]

Will have a look and try.:yes:

[Subike]

been there...
If yer want a 4 cyclinder to put out the low end punch of a Vee

cut the cams in half turn them 180* and weld back togeather
put the plug leads to 1 & 3 off one coil / 2 & 4 of the other..
the motor will run as a twin.. fireing on 2 cyclinders at the same time.

DON"T try to pull the same red line as it did .. drop 2000 rpm off the red line..

I done it to a GSX750 for a TQ midget...

Gavin Sendal / Craig Webby won the NZ speedway side chair champs with a GSXR1100
running as a twin..

oked into doing this with a Yamaha xs1100 motor,
But by getting new cams made, not cutting the ome ones,
seeing as its the cams that control everything up top,
And the xs1100 fires on every stroke like most bikes
The only problem I could see, was there is no fly wheel to allow the motor to run over the dead cycles evenly
Thought that it would vibrate far too much for it to be worth while.'
but seeing you have done it to a GSXR1100,
how did you deal with the no flywheel problem
Or were the counter balance weights on the crank sufficient
to even out the pulse and not let the thing shake itself to bits.

[ducatilover]

Both the Gixxer and XS have a flywheel, you'll probably find it on the crank spinning around a set of stator windings laden with nice heavy magnets :yes:

[Drew]

Because the motor is already balanced for the crank and you're not changing it, the vibration will be no more severe than it is already.

But, I ask why it is you want to do this?

The gains to be had from a cross plane crank are in the longer dead pulse, giving your tyre time to recover. The torque figure is no more impressive, nor is the power. All you're doing is making your bike sound like it's got a serious miss.