Friendly reminder re: helmets [Archive]

Hellzie

27th February 2012, 18:53

Tigadee

27th February 2012, 19:05

My helmets, gloves, jackets and pants are all snug. Maybe comical in appearance somtimes [especially when getting in and out of them], but at least I know they wan't slip off easily...

Thanks for the kindly reminder.

GingerMidget

27th February 2012, 19:08

I need a new helmet. Mine fits fine, but its getting a bit old now, and to be frank I wouldn't trust it. My pants could also do with being replaced. Or swapped for some smaller ones!

blackdog

27th February 2012, 19:11

My pants could also do with being replaced...

That's asking for trouble 'round here.

GingerMidget

27th February 2012, 19:20

That's asking for trouble 'round here.

Like going to the gym with your ex trouble?

nadroj

27th February 2012, 19:59

I need a new helmet. Mine fits fine, but its getting a bit old now, and to be frank I wouldn't trust it. My pants could also do with being replaced. Or swapped for some smaller ones!

I've got some XXL with the leg length shortened........

GingerMidget

27th February 2012, 20:04

I've got some XXL with the leg length shortened........

XXL and smaller? Umm no. I'm a midget.

nadroj

27th February 2012, 20:06

XXL and smaller? Umm no. I'm a midget.

'twas a pt........

GingerMidget

27th February 2012, 20:10

Sorry, whats that in english?

nadroj

27th February 2012, 20:11

Sorry, whats that in english?

Piss Take!

sil3nt

27th February 2012, 20:18

I need a new helmet. Mine fits fine, but its getting a bit old now, and to be frank I wouldn't trust it. My pants could also do with being replaced. Or swapped for some smaller ones!You don't even have a bike I think your helmet will be fine :lol:

davereid

27th February 2012, 20:41

I have spent the day in court, and for anyone that's been to court for the reason of giving a witness statement, you'll know you have a fair bit of time for personal reflection while you wait.

About a year ago I was witness to a slow speed car vs motorcycle crash during evening rush hour in Auckland's CBD. At first, it seemed like a minor collision, but unfortunately it didn't end that way. Although the rider was ok after the accident, his condition deteriorated in hospital where he suffered brain damage due to a burst artery. He passed away a week later.

Although there were several other (avoidable) factors that lead to this unfortunate accident, one that might have meant his 3 young kids still have a father and his wife still has a husband is if he'd been wearing the correct sized helmet. So let this serve as a gentle reminder, please make sure your gear is fit for purpose. If you're unsure, ask someone who knows what they're talking about.

Its very easy to say that if someone was wearing a helmet, or a better helmet, or a better fitting helmet that they would have survived an accident. But helmets have never really met their promise.

Ride like you dont have a helmet on. drive safely, choose the best safety gear you can afford. But don't believe a helmet is magic.

The graph is MZ motorcyclist deaths. The introduction of helmets correlates with a big increase in death rates. And the rate never came down.

Its up to you to decide how important you think helmets are. But dont over rely on them.

Shadows

27th February 2012, 20:51

The graph is MZ motorcyclist deaths. The introduction of helmets correlates with a big increase in death rates. And the rate never came down.

It also correlates with a sharp increase in motorcycle registrations.

SMOKEU

27th February 2012, 21:32

I need a new helmet. My one is too big, and I can't afford a new one. :(

quickbuck

27th February 2012, 22:14

The graph is MZ motorcyclist deaths. The introduction of helmets correlates with a big increase in death rates. And the rate never came down.

Heck!
Better not ride a MZ then ;)

Seriously though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8v4qzB5HLY&feature=share

Helpful tips here...

But David has a point.
It won't prevent death or damage in every accident. Far too many other factors to take into account.

Hellzie

28th February 2012, 06:25

Its very easy to say that if someone was wearing a helmet, or a better helmet, or a better fitting helmet that they would have survived an accident. But helmets have never really met their promise.

Ride like you dont have a helmet on. drive safely, choose the best safety gear you can afford. But don't believe a helmet is magic.

The graph is MZ motorcyclist deaths. The introduction of helmets correlates with a big increase in death rates. And the rate never came down.

Its up to you to decide how important you think helmets are. But dont over rely on them.

I didn't say that he would have survived I said that he might have survived. What I'm trying to say is if you're going to spend money on safety gear, and bother wearing it, at least make sure it fits properly.

Totally agree that helmets aren't magic and not to rely on them. They are and should be treated as your last line of defense.

Maha

28th February 2012, 06:32

It also correlates with a sharp increase in motorcycle registrations.

Mid 70's = petrol shortage = carless days = more people looking for a cheaper way to get around = motorcycle sales go through the roof = an influx of new bike riders on the road = an increase of motorcycle related accidents.

davereid

28th February 2012, 06:40

Mid 70's = petrol shortage = carless days = more people looking for a cheaper way to get around = motorcycle sales go through the roof = an influx of new bike riders on the road = an increase of motorcycle related accidents.

Yes all true.

There are absolutely a wide range of reason why motorcycle death rates went up, and I am sure that increased motorcycle use was amongst them.

But the reality is that helmets are wonderful in protecting you from bumps, scrapes and abrasions. For that reason alone they are worthwhile. But they aren't magic, they are just another tool.

MSTRS

28th February 2012, 07:38

Mid 70's = petrol shortage = carless days = more people looking for a cheaper way to get around = motorcycle sales go through the roof = an influx of new bike riders on the road = an increase of motorcycle related accidents.

Also - m/c insurance premiums were less than cars, rego was cheaper and so was ACC component. The helmets were crap...and so was any sort of 'proper' gear. A 'Fonzie' jacket was about it.

jellywrestler

28th February 2012, 08:38

Mine fits fine, but its getting a bit old now

How do you know it does? Not singling you out but I'd lay money that at least half of the Motorcycle Accessory Sales Staff in NZ don't actually know how to tell if a helmet fits correctly.

Maha

28th February 2012, 11:47

A 'Fonzie' jacket was about it.

Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Big Dave

28th February 2012, 13:01

The graph also roughly correlates with motorcycles going from <50 to 100+ horsepower.

willytheekid

28th February 2012, 13:16

Good Thread!

Helmets...its where we store our brains! (That simple really)

I just had to replace mine, I got a blow out on the rear tyre and had to push the bike 3k to petrol station...unfortunately...the bloody helmet was dragging on the rear tyre! :facepalm:

The edge of the tyre cut right though the AGV's outter shell!...result = $350 AGV helmet in the bin!
Had work mates etc tell me whats my problem?...its still good!...just a small cut, she'll be right! :facepalm: :motu:

F that!...its rooted and in the bin!

Got a loverly new LS2 Blade (with inner visor) :2thumbsup...got one thats a bit to small for me, so once its inner padding has "moulded" to my lumpy head, it will fit perfect!

Gotta keep ya potatoe safe people...helps stop the drooling on the keyboard and petrol tank :clap:

placidfemme

28th February 2012, 15:01

I have spent the day in court, and for anyone that's been to court for the reason of giving a witness statement, you'll know you have a fair bit of time for personal reflection while you wait.

About a year ago I was witness to a slow speed car vs motorcycle crash during evening rush hour in Auckland's CBD. At first, it seemed like a minor collision, but unfortunately it didn't end that way. Although the rider was ok after the accident, his condition deteriorated in hospital where he suffered brain damage due to a burst artery. He passed away a week later.

Although there were several other (avoidable) factors that lead to this unfortunate accident, one that might have meant his 3 young kids still have a father and his wife still has a husband is if he'd been wearing the correct sized helmet. So let this serve as a gentle reminder, please make sure your gear is fit for purpose. If you're unsure, ask someone who knows what they're talking about.

Well said.

I work in the industry and obviously sell helmets, it's really hard sometimes, you tell the person the helmet is a perfect fit, and after some time the padding will compress to the shape of their face and become more comfortable, but so many people don't listen and insist on buying the next size up, it is so frustrating. Even worse are parents who want to buy MX helmets for kids, and again insist on buying larger sizes so the kid can "grow" into it so they don't need to buy another helmet so soon. Which frustrates me even more, as a parent, surely you would rather pay more and more often to ensure your childs safety?

It is a hard one, the best we (as in the industry) can do is to inform customers as much as possible and hope they listen.

jellywrestler

28th February 2012, 15:20

I work in the industry and obviously sell helmets, it's really hard sometimes, you tell the person the helmet is a perfect fit,

where did you get your training on how to correctly fit helmets?

Swoop

28th February 2012, 15:20

just had to replace mine,

F that!...its rooted and in the bin!
Hopefully you cut off the chinstraps before binning it. Make it definately unusable just in case someone believes "she's good mate!"...

nerrrd

28th February 2012, 17:26

I've not had much luck finding helmets that fit my XL head; the closest I've come is a Shoei (fine front to back, but too much room side to side) and a Givi (which was too tight front to back, I ended up having to knead the polystyrene with the back of a spoon and lightly sand it in places - now it fits really well, but I've probably reduced it's shock-absorbing abilities in the process.)

It's probably a pipe dream, but I wish they could do with heads something similar to what they do with feet when you buy running shoes - scan the shape of it on some kind of machine so they know which helmets suit which head.

Or failing that some kind of malleable inner lining that moulds to the shape of your skull and then hardens into the right shape (maybe just from the heat coming off your head while wearing it?) Some kind of "smart" material using nano-thingys. Then have the polystyrene on top of that.

Hoarn

28th February 2012, 17:30

This is one of the few instances where having a huge noggin helped. I had to get a 3XL HJC, nothing else would fit that I could find in NZ, and even then it's only really comfortable now after 6 months or so. I totally would have fallen for getting a bigger helmet if I'd had the choice, glad I didn't.

While looking into this I came across an article that also talked about there being 5 different common head shapes, and that these were as important as basic size for determining fit, I won't look for it, I'm sure it's here somewhere already.

Actually, here it is http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-faq.htm

jellywrestler

28th February 2012, 17:50

I've not had much luck finding helmets that fit my XL head
should be able to buy inserts to alter the fit, not sure whether the NZ Arai importers care enough to provide back up though

http://www.racevisors.co.uk/category/accessories-genuine-parts-arai

GingerMidget

28th February 2012, 18:25

How do you know it does? Not singling you out but I'd lay money that at least half of the Motorcycle Accessory Sales Staff in NZ don't actually know how to tell if a helmet fits correctly.

To be fair, it fits ok. But I wouldn't want to rely on it, which is why I'm adding an AGV helmet to my lit of things to buy. Gloves are being bought tomorrow morning, cos I can't find mine. They may have been put in a safe place. Like my dads garage.

James Deuce

28th February 2012, 18:31

I like wearing my helmet backwards. It's helped return my complexion to the youthful one I had before I lost it first on The Apennine Way.

Shadows

28th February 2012, 18:32

The graph also roughly correlates with motorcycles going from <50 to 100+ horsepower.

That was my argument if anybody came back with the question why the death rate has decreased more slowly than the registration rate but I couldn't find a graph to show it :msn-wink:

Mom

29th February 2012, 05:25

Also - m/c insurance premiums were less than cars, rego was cheaper and so was ACC component. The helmets were crap...and so was any sort of 'proper' gear. A 'Fonzie' jacket was about it.

I will have you know that some of us were really "cool" and had a Line 7 suit :2thumbsup

Good Thread!

Gotta keep ya potatoe safe people...helps stop the drooling on the keyboard and petrol tank :clap:

Cutting the straps off first though eh?

TimeOut

29th February 2012, 06:47

I will have you know that some of us were really "cool" and had a Line 7 suit :2thumbsup

Wern't they the bees knees:2thumbsup

MSTRS

29th February 2012, 07:49

I will have you know that some of us were really "cool" and had a Line 7 suit

The original hi-viz...

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 08:35

where did you get your training on how to correctly fit helmets?

Personally I had my helmet fitment training with one of the Shoei guys from Japan a couple of years back, have also been to a few different supplier conferences and product displays, also had the French team from Shark do demonstrations and the methods are the same as Shoei.

Edbear

29th February 2012, 08:46

I will have you know that some of us were really "cool" and had a Line 7 suit :2thumbsup
eh?

Or an old Army Greatcoat with the steel capped boots. :cool:

willytheekid

29th February 2012, 08:59

Cutting the straps off first though eh?

Who said I didn't? (I also smashed the shell and diassembled inner as well...I tend to pick these tips up after 30yrs riding mom)

-when you assume...

Hellzie

29th February 2012, 12:19

Personally I had my helmet fitment training with one of the Shoei guys from Japan a couple of years back, have also been to a few different supplier conferences and product displays, also had the French team from Shark do demonstrations and the methods are the same as Shoei.

Awesome - any tips? And I want to know where you work for when I'm next in need of a helmet.

jellywrestler

29th February 2012, 12:22

Personally I had my helmet fitment training with one of the Shoei guys from Japan a couple of years back, have also been to a few different supplier conferences and product displays, also had the French team from Shark do demonstrations and the methods are the same as Shoei. great, any idea what percentage of sales staff in NZ shops selling helmets etc have had similar training.
It's not a dig, i've over hte years seen quite a number of people getting assistance incorrectly in shops

Maha

29th February 2012, 12:54

Personally I had my helmet fitment training with one of the Shoei guys from Japan a couple of years back, have also been to a few different supplier conferences and product displays, also had the French team from Shark do demonstrations and the methods are the same as Shoei.

And the demonstration consists of putting a helmet on and doing it up?...I understand that is difficult..;)

jellywrestler

29th February 2012, 13:05

And the demonstration consists of putting a helmet on and doing it up?...I understand that is difficult..;)
that's where you're so wrong, in trying them on correctly you don't do them up...

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 13:39

Awesome - any tips? And I want to know where you work for when I'm next in need of a helmet.

It all depends on what type of helmet you are going for, full face or open face (and in my books fitment for flip-ups is the same as fitment for open face). Personally I always encourage full face helmets, I try not to be pushy or to flood the customer with horror stories, but I hate open face helmets, at the shop I work at now we don't even stock open face helmets.

Ideally you want to go to a shop where they stock at least 3 different brands. Every brand has the shells and interior padding/construction in different shapes (which explains why you hear people say things like "I have a Shoei head"). When you try the helmet on you want it to be a really nice snug (even on the tight side) type fit, ideally it will squash your cheeks in, once the helmet is on one method is to have someone else hold the helmet (hands by where your ears would be inside the helmet) and you shake your head while they hold the helmet still, this shows how much movement you have side to side (remember there is always the chance of your helmet gripping the road through friction when you come off, if you have movement this could risk neck injurys and possibly even the helmet coming off), also while the helmet strap is done up you want to pull the chin part of the helmet up and down and check for movement. This is the easiest method, but just one of many.

Tight = Good (If you have the right helmet for your head shape the tight helmet should not put pressure on your forehead and have little to no movement to the sides or up or down) - Remember the padding will compress a little and mould to the shape of your head, if you buy one that is too big it will only get bigger)
Money - You DO NOT need to spend a lot of money to get a good helmet (check out http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/) As an example, Shoei's, Arai's etc can range from between $599 to $1400, but some of them only have a 3 or 4 star rating, whereas you look at the brand "V-CAN" as a $100 - $199 helmet and they are rated with 5 stars. Don't get me wrong the more expensive brands are great (I have a Shoei head!!), but more important than brand and cost is fitment.

I work at Bay MC in Napier, a bit of a mission to get a helmet I think :)

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 13:43

great, any idea what percentage of sales staff in NZ shops selling helmets etc have had similar training.
It's not a dig, i've over hte years seen quite a number of people getting assistance incorrectly in shops

Hey I have no idea at all sorry. I know that some of the suppliers hold product seminars where the rep's from the home countries of products (like the French with Shark and Ixon), but not very often, and most times the bike shops have to pay for employees to attend, which means usaually only one parts person can go as they still need staff in the shop as these are always on weekdays during normal business hours.

However, my best advice regarding this, is speak to your local shop and ask them to ask their local Whites Rep (in Auckland I think it is Paul Murphy) to give the staff a demonstration as all the Whites Reps have incredible training and are more than willing to share this experience and knowledge with shops to then pass onto customers.

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 13:44

And the demonstration consists of putting a helmet on and doing it up?...I understand that is difficult..;)

It is very hard Mark... sometimes we even have to talk without dribbling :drool:

MSTRS

29th February 2012, 13:49

I work at Bay MC in Napier, ...

'ere. steady on. 'Work' is not an accurate description of what you do between 8 and 5...;)

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 13:53

'ere. steady on. 'Work' is not an accurate description of what you do between 8 and 5...;)

true... there is a lot of dribbling and head scratching going on

Maha

29th February 2012, 13:55

It is very hard Mark... sometimes we even have to talk without dribbling :drool:

My new KBC XP3 is without doubt the best fittng and most quiet helmet I have owned.
I always by KBC and in the past they have been a tad whistley? (for want of a better word;))
But the new one is just brilliant..... and doesn't smell like head.:crazy:

MSTRS

29th February 2012, 13:57

true... there is a lot of dribbling and head scratching going on

You so know that I know what you really wanted to say there...

Drew

29th February 2012, 14:09

My pants could also do with being replaced. Or swapped for some smaller ones!So, where does the que start for getting into your pants?

Maha

29th February 2012, 14:11

So, where does the que start for getting into your pants?

Naenae...?

MSTRS

29th February 2012, 14:16

But the new one is just brilliant..... and doesn't smell like head.

I think I need a new one too. No amount of washing seems to work. And no removable anything on my model Shoei. Apart from the visor of course.

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 14:23

My new KBC XP3 is without doubt the best fittng and most quiet helmet I have owned.

Not bad, best rated KBC I have seen, glad to see they have up'd their standards!

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/kbc-xp3

Maha

29th February 2012, 14:30

I think I need a new one too. No amount of washing seems to work. And no removable anything on my model Shoei. Apart from the visor of course.

Ms Tammy will see ya right....;)

Not bad, best rated KBC I have seen, glad to see they have up'd their standards!

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/kbc-xp3

I bought it from FC-MOTO in Holland...$282.
Four Stars?...nice.

Drew

29th February 2012, 14:34

Not bad, best rated KBC I have seen, glad to see they have up'd their standards!

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/kbc-xp3

KBC are awesome. I went into the sand head first at well over 200kph (not an over stated speed, my brakes had failed and I hit the ground without scrubbing off a lot of speed at all), at Pukekohe wearing a KBC, and the only thing visibly wrong with it, was very fine scratches radiating away from the center top from where it went neck deep into the sand trap.

I'll swear by the model helmet I was wearing forever.

I'm worried though, that you imply they are not generally rated very well at all. One could view that to mean the rating system holds very high standards, I on the other hand think it means the rating system is just inaccurate.

Based on the facts I have to hand. 90kilo rider coming to an almost dead stop in sand from 200kph, who's first point of contact on the ground was the very top of his head.

Five fuckin stars on that one! What's next?

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 14:48

KBC are awesome. I went into the sand head first at well over 200kph (not an over stated speed, my brakes had failed and I hit the ground without scrubbing off a lot of speed at all), at Pukekohe wearing a KBC, and the only thing visibly wrong with it, was very fine scratches radiating away from the center top from where it went neck deep into the sand trap.

I'll swear by the model helmet I was wearing forever.

I'm worried though, that you imply they are not generally rated very well at all. One could view that to mean the rating system holds very high standards, I on the other hand think it means the rating system is just inaccurate.

Based on the facts I have to hand. 90kilo rider coming to an almost dead stop in sand from 200kph, who's first point of contact on the ground was the very top of his head.

Five fuckin stars on that one! What's next?

Yeah, each to their own. I personally have nothing against any brands, it's just my job to be aware of ratings etc not in sense of being able to put brands down, but to promote the helmet the customer has picked. It is not in my interest or the shops interest to bag any brand of anything, our jobs are to offer a service and support and product knowledge. From personal experience I can only talk about V-Can's, Shark and Shoei as those are the brands I have owned. Like I said the most important thing is fitment, at the end of the day all helmets sold in NZ meet the same safety standard, so there is a level of confidence in any brand on the shelf in NZ.

Glad to hear you came away from that, it certainly doesn't sound like a fun crash!

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 14:50

Ms Tammy will see ya right....;)

I tried Mark, but he insists on having a neon Pink Shoei with neon green polka dots... I tried to explain they don't make those graphics and he nearly cried... I hate to make customers cry :weep:

MSTRS

29th February 2012, 14:56

I tried Mark, but he insists on having a neon Pink Shoei with neon green polka dots... I tried to explain they don't make those graphics and he nearly cried... I hate to make customers cry :weep:

You lied....
The nice people at the Honda shop had one. And it was in my size.
I just didn't have the coin that day (or any other TTTT)

placidfemme

29th February 2012, 15:04

You lied....
The nice people at the Honda shop had one. And it was in my size.
I just didn't have the coin that day (or any other TTTT)

lol nice! So thats you riding around deafening road users with your loud helmet!

But seriously, what model Shoei do you have?

6ft5

29th February 2012, 16:04

I have spent the day in court, and for anyone that's been to court for the reason of giving a witness statement, you'll know you have a fair bit of time for personal reflection while you wait.

About a year ago I was witness to a slow speed car vs motorcycle crash during evening rush hour in Auckland's CBD. At first, it seemed like a minor collision, but unfortunately it didn't end that way. Although the rider was ok after the accident, his condition deteriorated in hospital where he suffered brain damage due to a burst artery. He passed away a week later.

Although there were several other (avoidable) factors that lead to this unfortunate accident, one that might have meant his 3 young kids still have a father and his wife still has a husband is if he'd been wearing the correct sized helmet. So let this serve as a gentle reminder, please make sure your gear is fit for purpose. If you're unsure, ask someone who knows what they're talking about.

Dude,

Totally agree, I survived an off only because I did have the right gear fitting right! Donot take shortcuts. If you cannot afford to buy the right kit and you ride, YOU ARE AN A*&!HOLE and put the rest of us at risk of yet paying more ACC levies. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

oh and by the way if you were the idiot riding on a harley in shorts and T-shirt on sunday - YES THAT IS YOU, you fit the bill in the previous paragraph!