Is it too late to return my helmet?

[OwlCat]

Hi everyone,

I bought a new helmet a couple of weeks ago, as the one that came with the scooter (off TM) "looked like it was from the 80's and is probably damaged. You should get a new one." (guy from scooter store)

I had a look at open face ones, being a new rider, I didn't know if there was any diff safety-wise between open and full face helmets. I asked at the store. The guy who served me said "there's been no statistics."

Since then, I've heard completely otherwise and I've heard open-face ones referred to as 'chin graters'. This makes me very nervous.

I want to return it under false pretences, but I've already scratched it a bit and I hate making a fuss over stuff like this. Plus I don't know if they would accept it. And I've been in their store what feels like every other day this past fortnight, so will feel like a cabbage.

Advice?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hi everyone,

I bought a new helmet a couple of weeks ago, as the one that came with the scooter (off TM) "looked like it was from the 80's and is probably damaged. You should get a new one." (guy from scooter store)

I had a look at open face ones, being a new rider, I didn't know if there was any diff safety-wise between open and full face helmets. I asked at the store. The guy who served me said "there's been no statistics."

Since then, I've heard completely otherwise and I've heard open-face ones referred to as 'chin graters'. This makes me very nervous.

I want to return it under false pretences, but I've already scratched it a bit and I hate making a fuss over stuff like this. Plus I don't know if they would accept it. And I've been in their store what feels like every other day this past fortnight, so will feel like a cabbage.

Advice?

First of all...you're a naughty girl for not looking after your new helmet properly! Next...once worn (and scratched) I don't really think they have to take it back. I'm guessing you've been dealing with Motorad?

Carl (the owner) is a very fair guy though if my guess is correct.

Pete

Wellington Motorcycles

[BigAl]

Yes probably too late as they wouldn't be able to sell it as new, although worth asking if you can trade it in on another.

If you are just riding a scooter around town I wouldn't worry too much about a full face helmet, back in the 70s and earlier open face helmets were very popular on road and off road bikes.

[OwlCat]

I know :( I am unworthy.

I've been dealing with Scooterazzi. I figured they probably wouldn't take it back. I've been considering just selling and buying a new one

[James Deuce]

No one wants your scratched, second-hand helmet. Those that do, please queue to the right.

[oneofsix]

No one wants your scratched, second-hand helmet. Those that do, please queue to the right.

That should read that "No one should want", someone will. At least she saw sense and bought new.
Open faced helmets have a rep of being a good way to lose your chin but I suspect that refers more to using an open face helmet at highway speeds rather than around town on a scooter. Not being a scooter rider I imagine it is somewhat hard to end up face first on the road from a scooter at less than 50k.

[Edbear]

I know :( I am unworthy.

I've been dealing with Scooterazzi. I figured they probably wouldn't take it back. I've been considering just selling and buying a new one

Go in and cry on Mark's shoulder, I've heard he's a softy. Could be wrong though... ;)

[Crasherfromwayback]

I know :( I am unworthy.

I've been dealing with Scooterazzi. I figured they probably wouldn't take it back. I've been considering just selling and buying a new one


Go in and cry on Mark's shoulder, I've heard he's a softy. Could be wrong though... ;)

Go and see Mark. He's a good guy and will be as fair as anyone can be.

[MSTRS]

If you are just riding a scooter around town I wouldn't worry too much about a full face helmet, back in the 70s and earlier open face helmets were very popular on road and off road bikes.

You think the road won't do damage to a face at <50kph?
To be fair, in the 70s and before, open face was mostly what was available. The early full faces (Bell?) were heavy and liable to cause broken necks.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You think the road won't do damage to a face at <50kph?
To be fair, in the 70s and before, open face was mostly what was available. The early full faces (Bell?) were heavy and liable to cause broken necks.

Yeah fuck that. I know people that've lost more than a few teeth at lower speeds.

[avgas]

Talk very nicely to the shop you bought the helmet off. Say that you understand why they wont take it back and explain you can't afford another.
Perhaps they could do you another helmet at cost?

[Paul in NZ]

Sigh - don't over think it. Yes - its unreasonable to ask the store to take it back but you aint gunna die wearing it. Yes - there is some increase in risk of a facial injury but horses for courses. Vicki and I regularly use open face helmets around our village and prefer an full face on the open road. Mind you my face is as attractive as an inside out gerbil so a good road surface sanding might improve it.

[BigAl]

You think the road won't do damage to a face at <50kph?
To be fair, in the 70s and before, open face was mostly what was available. The early full faces (Bell?) were heavy and liable to cause broken necks.

Yeah then how come no one wears a full face on a bicycle?

I regularly can manage more than 50 kph and have you ever watched cycle racing, it's all about a perceived risk trading off with comfort and practicality.

So open face helmets are fine for scooters.

[MSTRS]

Yeah then how come no one wears a full face on a bicycle?

Really? What about all those people doing MTB, downhill etc



So open face helmets are fine for scooters.

Actually, open face helmets are legal. Even the silly pudding bowls that are seen on some 'hard men'...
The level of protection that anyone (treadly, scooter, proper bike) chooses, is their affair.
Still doesn't change the fact that a full face offers better protection than the alternative/s.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi everyone,

I bought a new helmet a couple of weeks ago, as the one that came with the scooter (off TM) "looked like it was from the 80's and is probably damaged. You should get a new one." (guy from scooter store)

I had a look at open face ones, being a new rider, I didn't know if there was any diff safety-wise between open and full face helmets. I asked at the store. The guy who served me said "there's been no statistics."

Since then, I've heard completely otherwise and I've heard open-face ones referred to as 'chin graters'. This makes me very nervous.

I want to return it under false pretences, but I've already scratched it a bit and I hate making a fuss over stuff like this. Plus I don't know if they would accept it. And I've been in their store what feels like every other day this past fortnight, so will feel like a cabbage.

Advice?

keep the half face for a pot plant holder, go back to the shop and ask (nicely) the manager or owner for a discount on a full face helmet, after explaining the situation and reminding them you bought a bike off them two weeks ago. That way its their call: they either get a customer for life happy to refer new peeps to them, or you never darken their door again. be polite, firm, and businesslike.

If they dont come to the partay, go see Mr Crasher from Wellington Motorcycles and tell him Kiwibiker sent you......

he might give you coffee if you play your cards right, and a deal on a Harley helmet.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah then how come no one wears a full face on a bicycle?

I regularly can manage more than 50 kph and have you ever watched cycle racing, it's all about a perceived risk trading off with comfort and practicality.

So open face helmets are fine for scooters.

your conclusion is not supported by your premise.

Plus, given what passes for a mind in road salmon they are too concerned with whether their leg shave is up to scratch, and whether their $15000 Pinarello properly matches the trade team kit (down to sox and gloves and shoes) they are wearing as they wobble along at 20kph. Bah! foadie rags!

The demands of road cycling and MTB are different and riding uphill vs riding down. I have totalled a number of mtb helmets over the years, and suffered (thankfully) minor facial injuries, but I do know people who have hurt themselves quite badly with fairly minor offs. It is quite difficult to buy a lightweight full face helmet: I can only think of the MET parachute, and the old Giro switchblade. If I start doing more MTB again, I am going to buy one, fashion be damned.

for DH, I used a MotoX helmet.

[jaffaonajappa]

Hi everyone,

I had a look at open face ones, being a new rider, I didn't know if there was any diff safety-wise between open and full face helmets. I asked at the store. The guy who served me said "there's been no statistics."

Since then, I've heard completely otherwise and I've heard open-face ones referred to as 'chin graters'. This makes me very nervous.

I want to return it under false pretences, but I've already scratched it a bit and I hate making a fuss over stuff like this.
Advice?

Man, I hate hearing about salesman still doin bullshit like this.
Yea, open face helmets look cool. Yeah new chick comes in and buys her first scooter - may as well kit her out in cool looking gear.

Telling a bullshit line such as 'statistics are not available' or some such is Poor.

Reminds me of the 80's and 90's....tobacco manufacturers still trying to deny cigarettes were harmful to your health and used "no proven statistics are available" type lines.

Go see the shop owner. Tell him you are not happy being misled by his staff.

[GingerMidget]

Return, unlikely.

Go see Pete at WMC, and buy the best you can. After all, what do you think think YOUR brain is worth?

[sil3nt]

After all, what do you think think YOUR brain is worth?Sorry but i really fucking hate this statement. This is what I was told when looking at helmets in a shop that only stocked $500+ helmets.

I walked across the road and picked up a helmet for $250 that has the same or better safety ratings than most of the expensive ones.

Price != safety or quality.

Do research but most importantly get one that fits properly.

[BMWST?]

take the helmet back and ask nicely if you can return it based on your new opinion of its safety....it cant hurt to ask

[GingerMidget]

Sorry but i really fucking hate this statement. This is what I was told when looking at helmets in a shop that only stocked $500+ helmets.

I walked across the road and picked up a helmet for $250 that has the same or better safety ratings than most of the expensive ones.

Price != safety or quality.

Do research but most importantly get one that fits properly.

I totally agree with this. Hence why I didn't say the most expensive. I've got my eye on an AGV at the moment, but I'd still rather an Arai.

[blackdog]

I've got my eye on an AGV at the moment, but I'd still rather an Arai.

Wash your mouth out. With soap.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I totally agree with this. Hence why I didn't say the most expensive. I've got my eye on an AGV at the moment, but I'd still rather an Arai.

I wear an Arai, and have only done so from the time I first purchased one. Except for when I was given an AGV for free. :baby:

Those of you lucky enough to have an Arai head. Praise the Lord. Go buy one.

[onearmedbandit]

http://www.monash.edu.au/miri/research/reports/atsb174.html

Stats are available, although the difference this report found was negligible. (Open face helmet wearers had an 8% chance of facial injuries opposed to 4% of full face helmet wearers)

[GrayWolf]

You think the road won't do damage to a face at <50kph?
To be fair, in the 70s and before, open face was mostly what was available. The early full faces (Bell?) were heavy and liable to cause broken necks.

I used to wear the bell Star mk 1&2 wayyyy back then, the other really serious flaw (most lids were heavy fibreglass then) was the design and shaping at the rear of the helmet, they didnt have the 'lift/cut away' that modern helmets do, and was a major contributor to neck/spinal injury.
The sad thing is that Bell were one of the few manufacturers that still made helmets by 'hat sizes' rather than small/med/large......

[GrayWolf]

Sorry but i really fucking hate this statement. This is what I was told when looking at helmets in a shop that only stocked $500+ helmets.

I walked across the road and picked up a helmet for $250 that has the same or better safety ratings than most of the expensive ones.

Price != safety or quality.

Do research but most importantly get one that fits properly.

Agreed in some instances, but often you'll find the finish (external) and the quality of the padding and materials inside a more expensive helmet are of higher quality. More expensive helmets often have 'removable/washable' lining. Also the impact absorbent inner shell can be of better construction..
You'll also find the buckles, clips and even visor mechanism's can differ vastly in quality.... Example my Nolan flip fronts have a Sharp rating of 100% for the front mechanism against failure, my LS2 flip front has only a 70% rating.

[JMemonic]

My wife had an off a while ago 50Kph, maybe a little lower, she was wondering why the ambo's and hospital staff kept asking did you hit your head as she kept saying no as could not recall doing so.

The chin guard and right had side of the visor told a different story, ok it might might have been enough seriously damage her at least she would have ended up with some nasty scratches, worst dislocated or broken jaw, eye orbit damage maybe a cheek bone cracked, just due to the way she fell and where she fell.

Full face lids all the time, and there are some decent helmets for reasonable prices, do the research on the web find several you like the specs and look of then hunt them out, locally different regions have different inners, shells linings so you can not be sure trying one here then buying from a cheap source on the net will get you the same fit.

[p.dath]

++ with everyone else saying that it is unreasonable asking the store to take it back. And +1 about getting it all scratched up after just a couple of weeks of ownership.


Could could consider trying to sell it on Trade Me, but I don't think you're going to get much for it second hand.

[jellywrestler]

Advice?
Suck it in and go and get another brain bucket.
Why come on here looking for advice when you obviously know there's an internet and could've checked things out before hand, instead you're trying to lay blame on the bike shop.

[oneofsix]

Suck it in and go and get another brain bucket.
Why come on here looking for advice when you obviously know there's an internet and could've checked things out before hand, instead you're trying to lay blame on the bike shop.

If people like her didn't come on here for advice we would have hardly any bike related threads.

[Paul in NZ]

If people like her didn't come on here for advice we would have hardly any bike related threads.

Ha! True! Mind you this thread is about a crash helmet not a bike so...... :lol:

[avgas]

Agreed in some instances, but often you'll find the finish (external) and the quality of the padding and materials inside a more expensive helmet are of higher quality. More expensive helmets often have 'removable/washable' lining. Also the impact absorbent inner shell can be of better construction..
You'll also find the buckles, clips and even visor mechanism's can differ vastly in quality.... Example my Nolan flip fronts have a Sharp rating of 100% for the front mechanism against failure, my LS2 flip front has only a 70% rating.
Yes and No.
Depends who they are and where they are targeting.
My KBC is vastly superior than my friends HJC's. Its even as good as my old Shoei was.
But KBC are currently 'new' so need to spend 10 years fighting for their place up the top, so the price is low.

I remember when some new fan-dangled helmet was trying to break into the market with their new helmets and while designs. The helmets were about 60% of the big boys (Shoei, Arai). They were an old helmet brand but had made shit before and now were coming out with some interesting designs on the global market.
That manufacturer was Shark. Good luck in buying a Shark sport helmet these days for NZ$300.

[James Deuce]

Flipping Shark don't make a helmet for me. They have that lovely blue paint job with the monochrome hibiscuseseseses, but no matter the size, it's like sticking my head in a vice and giving the screw a couple of turns.

[Paul in NZ]

it's like sticking my head in a vice and giving the screw a couple of turns.

I thought you liked doing that?

[onearmedbandit]

Am I the only one that feels that the salesman has misled the customer here? Yes he can say there are no statistics, but he's lying. Secondly he could point out that there is more of the face exposed with an open face helmet. From the info we have, he didn't point this out. If I was asked how a 1984 Civic would compare in safety to a 2006 Audi A4, and said there was no statistics and didn't point out that in a crash in the Civic you might as well kiss your arse goodbye then I would be held accountable for that.

[Paul in NZ]

Am I the only one that feels that the salesman has misled the customer here? Yes he can say there are no statistics, but he's lying. Secondly he could point out that there is more of the face exposed with an open face helmet. From the info we have, he didn't point this out. If I was asked how a 1984 Civic would compare in safety to a 2006 Audi A4, and said there was no statistics and didn't point out that in a crash in the Civic you might as well kiss your arse goodbye then I would be held accountable for that.

Um - well you don't know exactly what he said. Like I could say "I'm not aware of any statistics"..... which could well be true.

Anyway - I'm sure if you trawl the web you will be able to argue (backed by statistics) that not wearing a helmet at all will be safer (under certain circumstance and not at all related to riding the motorscooter I just sold you)

[onearmedbandit]

Um - well you don't know exactly what he said. Like I could say "I'm not aware of any statistics"..... which could well be true.



I agree, like everyone else in this thread other than the OP, I don't know exactly what was said. And not being aware of any statistics is a piss weak story. Put on a full face helmet, run for 5m, trip over and don't put your hands out. Now do the same with an open face. Yes maybe the OP should have realised that, but a salesman definitely should have.

[Bassmatt]

Sadly the number of obfuscations, half truths and outright lies I have been told by motorcycle gear salespeople would make a politician look honest.
eg this helmet has a 6 star SHARP rating, you wont be allowed on the track in Taupo without full leathers, these boots are waterproof etc
I could write a fucking book!

[onearmedbandit]

And therein lies the problem. I'd assume that full face helmets move faster than open face, so the chance to sell an open face to an unsuspecting customer could appeal to someone whose interest lies more in the bottom line, or clearing stock, than their customers safety.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sadly the number of obfuscations, half truths and outright lies I have been told by motorcycle gear salespeople would make a politician look honest.
eg this helmet has a 6 star SHARP rating, you wont be allowed on the track in Taupo without full leathers, these boots are waterproof etc
I could write a fucking book!

That's nothing. You should hear some of the lies I get told by some customers!

[onearmedbandit]

That's nothing. You should hear some of the lies I get told by some customers!

I agree entirely Pete. However as a saleperson yourself when asked the question that the OP asked, how would you have answered?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I agree entirely Pete. However as a saleperson yourself when asked the question that the OP asked, how would you have answered?

I have never, and will never recommend anything other than a full face helmet mate. It's all I've ever worn both off road and on. I like being able to chew my food.

[onearmedbandit]

I have never, and will never recommend anything other than a full face helmet mate. It's all I've ever worn both off road and on. I like being able to chew my food.

Exactly. And any decent salesperson, who actually cares about their customers well-being, would point this out.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Exactly. And any decent salesperson, who actually cares about their customers well-being, would point this out.

Except I guess...sales people that wear open face helmets and have never face planted into the coarse chip!

[MSTRS]

That's nothing. You should hear some of the lies I get told by some customers!

"Oh, Pete. This is the best coffee I've ever had" :pinch:

[Crasherfromwayback]

"Oh, Pete. This is the best coffee I've ever had" :pinch:

Strangely...that's not one I've heard! Cause it wouldn't be a lie!!:innocent:

[TrentNz]

Yeah then how come no one wears a full face on a bicycle?

I regularly can manage more than 50 kph and have you ever watched cycle racing, it's all about a perceived risk trading off with comfort and practicality.

So open face helmets are fine for scooters.

i wear a fullface helmet on my downhill bike.. if i come off without one i might die.

[BigAl]

i wear a fullface helmet on my downhill bike.. if i come off without one i might die.

Yeah same as if you exceed the speed limit eh