Seating position

[schrodingers cat]

I posted this on the Sports Bike section since I'm not a racer, just an occasional trackday rider. However I'm thinking that the KB racing community may offer the best advise

When I bought my old rocketship I didn't like the seat shape. It tended to slide me forward into the tank where my balls did an admirable job of stopping me going any further.

I gave it a bit of a tong up with a flap disc on the grinder and then race taped it while I experimented.
In the weekend I had another go at things with more tape and a camping ground pad (foam) and finally I'm pretty happy with things.
Getting it covered is now on my to - do list.

Anyhoo, I have a question. Are there any 'rules of thumb' when optimising seating position/bars position/footpeg position?

When I was a younger leaner man and did a fair bit of cycling there were quite a few tricks to getting everything where it should be. Obviously on a treddley the aim is to optimise biomechanics.

Its a sports bike so I don't give a rats arse about comfort over a 1000km trip or ability to spot speed cameras or any of that crap.
We're all different shape and sizes so what are the considerations around getting a 'proper' seating position?

[wharfy]

As comfortable as you can get and still reach all the controls and see where your going :)

[Mental Trousers]

As Wharfy said, as comfortable as you can get.

With my Triumph I was having a lot of problems with sliding forward under brakes and also a lack of confidence until I had it right over on it's side. Stomp Grip helped a little but what sorted both problems for me was to fill out the sides of the tank because I couldn't get decent purchase on the tank with my legs.

The petrol tank on my bike is concave where the leg cut outs are. This and the footpegs being widely spaced meant I couldn't actually grab the tank with my knees. So the thing to do was change the shape of the tank using a couple of shaped fillers made out of plastic dinner plates from the $2 shop covered in fibreglass and stuck on with velcro. So instead of a concave tank at the back I now had a convex one that was almost the perfect shape. After I made those I didn't need any Stomp Grip anymore.

[jaffaonajappa]

While agreeing with all the above...comfort is cool n stuff...

How about weight distribution. As far forward as possible, balls on tank almost, or further back?

Confident on the front grip - go further forward. Works for me......but Im pretty slow :)

[wharfy]

There is no rule of thumb - there are some laws of physics but the variables are so many that it makes your brain cell hurt - Just get comfortable so you can concentrate on where your going, after you've done a couple of track days find someone on a similar bike who is about your size and seems to be going OK and talk to them. Some people like to feel "locked in" and pad the seat rear or the tank to hold them in position, some people like to be able to move around on the bike. I hated the 675 seating position, when I tried to get tucked in I couldn't tilt my stiff old neck back far enough to see where I was going ! I removed the seat and replaced it with a bit of plastic and some "snow foam", lowered seating position about 50mm and instantly felt much more confident - when I use the term comfortable, I mean in a mental way that the bike "fits" not how much padding is on the seat. I have no clue how much lowering the seat height (and therefor center of gravity) affects the attitude of the bike and all the ramification of that, but I did get the suspension set up with the lower position. It's a pretty personal thing, I have spent a bit of time checking out every 675 I see at the track, the seat, pegs bars, relationship varies, as does the seat covering, application (or not) of stomp grip, padding of the tank, padding of the seat back, etc. etc....

[blackdog]

http://cycle-ergo.com/

[Biggles08]

I posted this on the Sports Bike section since I'm not a racer, just an occasional trackday rider. However I'm thinking that the KB racing community ma offer the best advise

When I bought my old rocketship I didn't like the seat shape. It tended to slide me forward into the tank where my balls did an admirable job of stopping me going any further.

I gave it a bit of a tong up with a flap disc on the grinder and then race taped it while I experimented.
In the weekend I had another go at things with more tape and a camping ground pad (foam) and finally I'm pretty happy with things.
Getting it covered is now on my to - do list.

Anyhoo, I have a question. Are there any 'rules of thumb' when optimising seating position/bars position/footpeg position?

When I was a younger leaner man and did a fair bit of cycling there were quite a few tricks to getting everything where it should be. Obviously on a treddley the aim is to optimise biomechanics.

Its a sports bike so I don't give a rats arse about comfort over a 1000km trip or ability to spot speed cameras or any of that crap.
We're all different shape and sizes so what are the considerations around getting a 'proper' seating position?

Do yourself a favour and get some stompgrip on your bike. I have found (and many will agree) that if you can lock your body from the waste down hard onto the bike, possibly with your butt back further than you 'feel' comfortable so that you are always in a 'tucked' position even entering the corners, your weight will immediatly be off your bars. To do this in the corners, use your outside leg to lock your knee into the tank (thats where Stomp Grip is awesome) by placing your 'ball' of your outside foot on the footpeg and lifting your knee up by extending your calf muscle. This will allow your bikes suspension to do its job better and you won't be interfering too much with rider input into the bars.

Of course, this is all very well for me and everyone is different and finds different methods that work for them....hell...look at A Stroud and Nick C...they do something completely different and they are hellishly fast!

I would suggest however as a "Rule of Thumb" get yourself some Stomp Grip. If you need somewhere to purchase it from let me know, I can sell you some at a good price :clap:

[slofox]

If you get a bike that doesn't fit, just sell it and buy another one. Repeat until you are sorted...:whistle:

Actually, that's kinda what I ended up doing, albeit by accident. When I eventually sat on the current bike, it was like clipping on a body suit. Which is why I just had to have it. Nothing at all to do with lunatic performance at all at all!

[schrodingers cat]

Thanks everybody for the solid advice. I'd never heard of stompgrip but after a quick google I can see the point.

My bike has a rear seat covery thing to give it that single seater look. I've noticed that the bike feels best balanced on corner exit when my bum is back touching it.

My first attempt focussed heavily on making the seat as low as possible but I didn't really like it. My knees felt over bent and it gave my calves gyp.

The extra 25mm made all the difference. All of a sudden I felt more with the bike and able to move side to side more freely

I think somethingto help grip the tank better sounds like a good idea. I do use my knees a lot (The paintwork is suffering) but having to put too much effort into it isn't good over a longer run.

I presume where the footpeg is in relation to the hip joint must make a difference? Is the point to put them where it helps you support your weight?

Chz again all.

[slofox]

Thanks everybody for the solid advice. I'd never heard of stompgrip but after a quick google I can see the point.

My bike has a rear seat covery thing to give it that single seater look. I've noticed that the bike feels best balanced on corner exit when my bum is back touching it.

My first attempt focussed heavily on making the seat as low as possible but I didn't really like it. My knees felt over bent and it gave my calves gyp.

The extra 25mm made all the difference. All of a sudden I felt more with the bike and able to move side to side more freely

I think somethingto help grip the tank better sounds like a good idea. I do use my knees a lot (The paintwork is suffering) but having to put too much effort into it isn't good over a longer run.

I presume where the footpeg is in relation to the hip joint must make a difference? Is the point to put them where it helps you support your weight?

Chz again all.


When I swapped from an SVS to a GSXR, I noticed that the knees were more bent on the gixxer. I kind of expected this to make it less comfortable for me, given that I am an old fart with fucked knees anyway. Not so. I am way more comfortable on the gixxer than ever I was on the SVS despite being in a more "forward" position. For whatever reason, I am a lot more "with" the gixxer. Like I said before, it feels more like I am sitting "in" the gixxer than ever was the case on the SV.

A lot of the comfort factor I think comes from the seat itself. The SV's have a teak board for a seat which used to kill my arse bones real quick. Gixxer is much more betterer.

Interesting that you feel better exiting corners when you are back on the bike. I am opposite to that. I like to get as forward as possible. No idea why - just feels better that way.

Interesting question you have posed in this thread. Good stuff.

[Mental Trousers]

Generally, feet directly underneath the hips is best for movement and control. Many people prefer to push the pegs back as far as they can, but it restricts movement like that.


Do yourself a favour and get some stompgrip on your bike. I have found (and many will agree) that if you can lock your body from the waste down hard onto the bike, possibly with your butt back further than you 'feel' comfortable so that you are always in a 'tucked' position even entering the corners, your weight will immediatly be off your bars. To do this in the corners, use your outside leg to lock your knee into the tank (thats where Stomp Grip is awesome) by placing your 'ball' of your outside foot on the footpeg and lifting your knee up by extending your calf muscle. This will allow your bikes suspension to do its job better and you won't be interfering too much with rider input into the bars.

That (and sliding forward under brakes) is exactly why I changed the shape of the tank at the back. Once I did stomp grip wasn't necessary, it was a bonus.

[Mental Trousers]

I've noticed that the bike feels best balanced on corner exit when my bum is back touching it.



Interesting that you feel better exiting corners when you are back on the bike. I am opposite to that. I like to get as forward as possible. No idea why - just feels better that way.

Two different riding styles. Very much an individual thing. Whether you're a rear wheel rider or a front wheel rider determines a crap load of other things like where your footpegs are to the damping in the forks/shock.

Rear wheel riders tend to be better suited for big bikes where corner speed isn't so important but getting on the throttle early is.

[nzspokes]

Im doing just this tonight. I removed the rubbers from my pegs to drop the level 20mm and added a little padding to the seat. Feels great compared to before. Only issue Im finding is to get my gear lever where I would like it, it hits the stand. Bugger.

Whole different ballgame with bicycles, Im a bike fitter as part of my trade. Your after power output on them. Motorcycle completely different.

[quickbuck]

...... Your after power output on them. Motorcycle completely different.

Well.. you are after power output on a motorcycle too... Just comes from a different place.
You use your feet to control a motorcycle in a corner... among other things...

[nzspokes]

Well.. you are after power output on a motorcycle too... Just comes from a different place.
You use your feet to control a motorcycle in a corner... among other things...

I agree. :2thumbsup

[gixerracer]

Have read some pretty bad advice on here mostly from Biggles.
Get a copy of Simon Crafars new book/DVD Motovudu it will be the best tool you will ever own

[schrodingers cat]

Have read some pretty bad advice on here mostly from Biggles.
Get a copy of Simon Crafars new book/DVD Motovudu it will be the best tool you will ever own

Please elaborate. What he said seemed to make a lot of sense..?

[Biggles08]

Please elaborate. What he said seemed to make a lot of sense..?

Don't worry....don't listen to Craig unless you like dirt bikes and sand.;)

[gixerracer]

Please elaborate. What he said seemed to make a lot of sense..?




The only good advice was get some Stom Grip I thinkg it has many advantages for braking and cornering.
The biggest problem with these types of websites is they are full of experts that have been around for 5 mins and already have all the answers which is laughable at best.
The thing about body position is its all about moving the centre of gravity, when your braking and cornering you want to be as far forward as possible and only need to be back in the seat when your trying to tuck in down a long straight or perhaps a very long sweeper but we dont have much of them in NZ.
Regarding Biggles comments having the ball of you outside foot on the peg is also bollocks unless your in a chicane type situation where you need to change direction very quickly, it doesnt matter what you do with your outside foot as long as its comfy for you.
As I said try and get a copy of the Motovudu book.dvd its all better explained by Simon Crafar whom I am pretty sure has a better CV than biggles :tugger:

[Biggles08]

The only good advice was get some Stom Grip I thinkg it has many advantages for braking and cornering.
The biggest problem with these types of websites is they are full of experts that have been around for 5 mins and already have all the answers which is laughable at best.
The thing about body position is its all about moving the centre of gravity, when your braking and cornering you want to be as far forward as possible and only need to be back in the seat when your trying to tuck in down a long straight or perhaps a very long sweeper but we dont have much of them in NZ.
Regarding Biggles comments having the ball of you outside foot on the peg is also bollocks unless your in a chicane type situation where you need to change direction very quickly, it doesnt matter what you do with your outside foot as long as its comfy for you.
As I said try and get a copy of the Motovudu book.dvd its all better explained by Simon Crafar whom I am pretty sure has a better CV than biggles :tugger:

Ha :-)....Can't argue with the last comment however my advise is not based on my 5 min of experience, more so what I have picked up from those who have done the California Super bike School along with what was taught to me by one of their coaches when he went through the 'steering drill' with me...it worked well (although still trying to perfect it). Another good book/DVD is 'twist of the wrist 1 & 2' which will say similar things to what I have described.

If it doesn't work for you that's fine...it works for others. Now go make some sand castles or something. :bleh:

[gixerracer]

Ha :-)....Can't argue with the last comment however my advise is not based on my 5 min of experience, more so what I have picked up from those who have done the California Super bike School along with what was taught to me by one of their coaches when he went through the 'steering drill' with me...it worked well (although still trying to perfect it). Another good book/DVD is 'twist of the wrist 1 & 2' which will say similar things to what I have described.

If it doesn't work for you that's fine...it works for others. Now go make some sand castles or something. :bleh:

How Many world superbike races and 500gp races have the calafornia superbike school guy's raced in and won or ?:motu:

[Mental Trousers]

How Many world superbike races and 500gp races have the calafornia superbike school guy's raced in and won or ?:motu:

How many WSBK or 500GP race winners have the California Superbike guys tutored?? You'd be really surprised by how many.

[schrodingers cat]

Confident on the front grip - go further forward.

I must admit I am a sook what it comes to the front end. Its something I'm working on.
The bike is 1000cc so a find than when I crack the throttle the front grip disappears anyway so I tend to sit on the rear tyre to maximise traction. I'm guessing that with experience/confidence I'll tend to weight the front a bit more and carry the mid speed.


Generally, feet directly underneath the hips is best for movement and control. Many people prefer to push the pegs back as far as they can, but it restricts movement like that.
What would be the downside of having the pegs a little forward oF the hip joint? (Just curious)




That (and sliding forward under brakes) is exactly why I changed the shape of the tank at the back. Once I did stomp grip wasn't necessary, it was a bonus.

Just to confirm - did you just pack out the knee cutouts wider or did you pad the back edge of the tank also?



when your braking and cornering you want to be as far forward as possible
Am I to presume that thing is to maximise the amount of front tyre you can use? I'm a big fella, 185cm and 110kg so I suspect my upper body already weight bias's forward. I realise it is generally accepted that your body COG is in the centre of the pelvis but that is when the body is in a balanced state not the unnatural leaning forward stance a sports bike puts you in.



Regarding Biggles comments having the ball of you outside foot on the peg is also bollocks unless your in a chicane type situation where you need to change direction very quickly, it doesnt matter what you do with your outside foot as long as its comfy for you.

I'm going to view the ball of the foot as 'a nice habit to get into but not essential for now'
I will get librarian wife onto the bok recommendation!

I prolly seem like a total nana with all the questions. On other weekends I engineer circiut race cars at a fairly high level so my approach to thinking about my motorcycling is a bit the same. I like to know what is 'ideal' and why.
When I get on the bike I just ride the thing and enjoy it. The time for thinking has passed, the time for doing has arrived. Afterwards I like to review what went well and what I intend to do more of.

Once again - thanks for the insights

[quickbuck]

I must admit I am a sook what it comes to the front end. Its something I'm working on.
The bike is 1000cc so a find than when I crack the throttle the front grip disappears anyway so I tend to sit on the rear tyre to maximise traction. I'm guessing that with experience/confidence I'll tend to weight the front a bit more and carry the mid speed.



UUmmmm, what do you mean by "Crack the throttle open".
If you mean slightly open it, like just off the idle then you are doing it right. If you mean feed it a hand full then WRONG!

The front wheel initiates the turn.
Once the bike is turned, it will continue to turn at the angle you have set the rear wheel at a "cracked" throttle setting until you do something else... usually turn the bars into the corner (But not many notice this happens).

Remember this:
You can turn the bars as FAST as you like in the dry (Not be confused with going as fast as you like into a corner), and the front will not let go. The wet is slightly different though....

[schrodingers cat]

UUmmmm, what do you mean by "Crack the throttle open".
If you mean slightly open it, like just off the idle then you are doing it right. If you mean feed it a hand full then WRONG!

The front wheel initiates the turn.
Once the bike is turned, it will continue to turn at the angle you have set the rear wheel at a "cracked" throttle setting until you do something else... usually turn the bars into the corner (But not many notice this happens).

Remember this:
You can turn the bars as FAST as you like in the dry (Not be confused with going as fast as you like into a corner), and the front will not let go. The wet is slightly different though....

Open slightly. It seems to carve the turn best when the chain is trying to travel just a little bit faster than the rear wheel but not accelerating. Feels like it controls the rear height(?) Then its the waiting game until I can roll the throttle on...

Interesting comment re bar input speed - I'll play with that.

[quickbuck]

Open slightly. It seems to carve the turn best when the chain is trying to travel just a little bit faster than the rear wheel but not accelerating. Feels like it controls the rear height(?) Then its the waiting game until I can roll the throttle on...

Interesting comment re bar input speed - I'll play with that.

Correct.
All the suspension is stable at a constent throttle setting.....

You can only open the throttle when you can see the exit of the corner in all cases on the road, and most on the track....

[schrodingers cat]

Correct.
All the suspension is stable at a constent throttle setting.....

You can only open the throttle when you can see the exit of the corner in all cases on the road, and most on the track....

I draw a series of imaginary arcs through the corner as I approach it and allow the eye/hand magic to carry me through. I'm looking ahead for my exit point and allow the bike to rotate through the turn until throttle will carry me forward to my exit point before winding the throttle in.

I'm not very fast but I think my basics are ok. If I were younger and sillyer with less knowledge of consequences I might be faster:2thumbsup

[Mental Trousers]

Generally, feet directly underneath the hips is best for movement and control. Many people prefer to push the pegs back as far as they can, but it restricts movement like that.
What would be the downside of having the pegs a little forward oF the hip joint? (Just curious)


It feels retarded cos you can't get your body down as your legs are stopping you from leaning forward. I had some peg hangers made for mine and we had them too far forward.




That (and sliding forward under brakes) is exactly why I changed the shape of the tank at the back. Once I did stomp grip wasn't necessary, it was a bonus.

Just to confirm - did you just pack out the knee cutouts wider or did you pad the back edge of the tank also?


Just the knee cutouts. I made 2 seperate ones. The back of the tank was clear except for some grip.

You can see the dark green things at the back of the tank in this pic. They were only rough ones to try out but they made a hell of a difference for me.

259128

I thought about padding the back of the tank so I was back a bit further cos I always seemed to spend a lot of time sat back from the tank. But once I made those 2 I found I wasn't sitting back any longer. Seems I was moving back so I could get my knee under where the top of the tank curves outwards but that wasn't necessary any longer.

[schrodingers cat]

Right - got some stomp grip on the bike (Cheers Biggles!)
Very happy now. Being able to lock into the bike with the legs makes a massive difference. Its easier to ride with precision (and you can feel how important it is to do so). I'm riding faster easier and not terrifying myself so often :-)

[nzspokes]

Generally, feet directly underneath the hips is best for movement and control.

Just spotted this. Very interesting. Mine are a good 200mm forward of my hips on my Ninja. Been having some trouble with sore hips etc with it. Had been thinking of moving pegs. If I go to pegs that are further back I guess it reduces my hip angle so should help and give more control?

[Mental Trousers]

Moving them back a bit will probably be more comfortable by the sounds. Comfortable is just about always better for control.

200mm is a hell of a lot. Are you sure you're measuring it correctly cos that sounds like a Cruiser rather than a Ninja.

[nzspokes]

Moving them back a bit will probably be more comfortable by the sounds. Comfortable is just about always better for control.

200mm is a hell of a lot. Are you sure you're measuring it correctly cos that sounds like a Cruiser rather than a Ninja.

The pegs are pretty much inline with the front of the seat. 200mm would be close to the centre of my hip joint. Maybe I need rearsets for it?

[Mental Trousers]

Maybe.

Best to get some intermediate plates made that the existing pegs bolt to, then bolt the intermediate plates to the frame mount holes.

Much cheaper than buying rearsets and you'll probably find you get 3 or more sets of plates made trying to get the position right.

Don't forget the levers.

[nzspokes]

Maybe.

Best to get some intermediate plates made that the existing pegs bolt to, then bolt the intermediate plates to the frame mount holes.

Much cheaper than buying rearsets and you'll probably find you get 3 or more sets of plates made trying to get the position right.

Don't forget the levers.

So a plate that just moves the peg down or back is what you mean?

[neil_cb125t]

Have a read of Keith Codes books, he talks about benefits of seating position, locking on and stability.

Happy to answer q's on this one, but the more you can be comfortable, go with the bike and relax (due to great lock on) the easier it is for the bike to do whats its designed to do.... hold a consistant predictable line as you roll the throttle on.

CSS coaching over

[steveyb]

That will be $250 thanks!

[neil_cb125t]

That will be $250 thanks!

$200 cash is fine :laugh: