Clubman laptimes AMCC

[Dreama]

:shit:
WTF ..... 1.02's and 1.03's for the top 5 or so in clubmans at Puke this last weekend !!!

Kinda defeats the purpose of the class I would have thought.

[sharky]

:shit:
WTF ..... 1.02's and 1.03's for the top 5 or so in clubmans at Puke this last weekend !!!

Kinda defeats the purpose of the class I would have thought.


They might know how to get around the track fast, but they haven't learrnt what the flags mean - passing under reds:bash:

[Kiwi Graham]

Both issues will be addressed ready for next season.

Formula Auckland will have a much bigger grid next season ;) and Clubmans will be given a briefing on their own.

The Clubmans class this year developed some pretty spectacular times as the season progressed but it takes a little longer to develop race craft. However disregarding flags is a huge no no and was addressed immediately by both the CoC and the steward when they were brought back to the dummy grid.

An awesome days racing all the same with impressive lap times in all classes.

[J-rod]

Both issues will be addressed ready for next season.

Formula Auckland will have a much bigger grid next season ;) and Clubmans will be given a briefing on their own.

The Clubmans class this year developed some pretty spectacular times as the season progressed but it takes a little longer to develop race craft. However disregarding flags is a huge no no and was addressed immediately by both the CoC and the steward when they were brought back to the dummy grid.

An awesome days racing all the same with impressive lap times in all classes.

Gents,

I was out there and I didn't see one person pass on the red, may have happened behind me but certainly not top 6, hands went out, everyone slowed down.

Secondly, everyone stayed slow and went into the pits apart from the two guys who were already going over the hill.

The only reason it took so long for everyone to get in the pits was that once the red was pulled everone went slow thinking there was a second incident. Remember there was two and a half laps under yellow before the red was pulled.

Keep in mind, we are in clubmans because we are learning and we are far more concerned about not hurting ourselves or others than winning races....

[c4.]

Gents,

I was out there and I didn't see one person pass on the red, may have happened behind me but certainly not top 6, hands went out, everyone slowed down.

Secondly, everyone stayed slow and went into the pits apart from the two guys who were already going over the hill.

The only reason it took so long for everyone to get in the pits was that once the red was pulled everone went slow thinking there was a second incident. Remember there was two and a half laps under yellow before the red was pulled.

Keep in mind, we are in clubmans because we are learning and we are far more concerned about not hurting ourselves or others than winning races....

I concur.
The first red flag I saw was the start finish line, they waved me (and following bikes) thru.
We circulated to the pits and got a bollocking.
Must've been 1 or 2 riders, harsh to tar and feather the whole group.
There was some very competitive jostling between the leaders of the points table on the last day of the season, go figure, I saw some crazy maneuvers from F1-F2, even called by race commentator.
Perhaps riders briefings that reiterate flags and rules should be mandatory?
10cents

[crazzed]

What happened to bring out the red flag?

[Kiwi Graham]

What happened to bring out the red flag?

Chain on the circuit

[slowpoke]

:shit:
WTF ..... 1.02's and 1.03's for the top 5 or so in clubmans at Puke this last weekend !!!

Kinda defeats the purpose of the class I would have thought.

Haha, I thought exactly the same thing mate! If you are doing that sort of time there's fuck all to be gained staying in clubbies, you'll learn a hell of a lot more mixing it up in F1.

[Peter Smith]

I spoke to one of the clubman guys that was doing 1:03's. He wasn't allowed to race F1 as he had not done 3 races meetings.
There also was an old post classic bike doing 1:03's in F1. I think he got 3rd in one of the races.

[Kevin G]

As a competitor at a race meeting if you do not know the flags and rules then you should not be on the track plain and bloody simple!
When you take a race licence you sign that you know and fully understand the rules, also most clubs sign in sheet and disclaimer will also require you to sign that you know and understand the rules.
Riders Briefing is not a place to teach people the rules!

Vent finished.


I concur.
The first red flag I saw was the start finish line, they waved me (and following bikes) thru.
We circulated to the pits and got a bollocking.
Must've been 1 or 2 riders, harsh to tar and feather the whole group.
There was some very competitive jostling between the leaders of the points table on the last day of the season, go figure, I saw some crazy maneuvers from F1-F2, even called by race commentator.
Perhaps riders briefings that reiterate flags and rules should be mandatory?
10cents

[codgyoleracer]

As a competitor at a race meeting if you do not know the flags and rules then you should not be on the track plain and bloody simple!
When you take a race licence you sign that you know and fully understand the rules, also most clubs sign in sheet and disclaimer will also require you to sign that you know and understand the rules.
Riders Briefing is not a place to teach people the rules!

Vent finished.

What he said, especially the last line

[gixerracer]

As a competitor at a race meeting if you do not know the flags and rules then you should not be on the track plain and bloody simple!
When you take a race licence you sign that you know and fully understand the rules, also most clubs sign in sheet and disclaimer will also require you to sign that you know and understand the rules.
Riders Briefing is not a place to teach people the rules!

Vent finished.

Fair chance if they are in clubmans they will not have a MNZ licence

[scracha]

Tyrewarmers, slicks and >150bhp bikes mean clubmans is now a completely pointless class that wastes precious track time.

Bung a yellow vest on new riders, give them a scratchie safety test and throw them in a class based on their qualifying time. Don't allow them to score points if they've been dropped to a "lower" class due to low qualifying time. Black flag them if they're dangerous/stupid.

[codgyoleracer]

Fair chance if they are in clubmans they will not have a MNZ licence

I think there should be a basic understanding of things like which way to go round the track, how to leave pitlane & exit the track, flag colours/meanings. (it is still "an organised race" afterall ?) - so there needs to be a smattering of basic safety.
Scritineering of clubmans bikes - probably isnt a bad thing either.


As far as racing protocols on track, then Fair chance appliesat this level.


GW

[FROSTY]

In my opinion this specific issue is EXACTLY why track days ie not race meetings are the place to learn your basic track craft and to transfer theory into a real life situation.
I genuinely believe that this is why the EXACT same flag rules should apply nation wide for track days as apply for race meetings even be it at least the basic -red/yellow/black flag
The ART days that are bringing out these new racers do a great job of feeding the funnel. I can't comment as to the emphasis placed on the flags and their use but I seem to recall they had big posters everywhere.
I do know I used to run through the flags during Riders brief at the KB track days
Its a genuine belief I have that anyone wanting to do a race meeting should attend ONE track day before doing so -specifically one that runs just like a race meeting.

[Kevin G]

Fair chance if they are in clubmans they will not have a MNZ licence

So then they are getting a one event licence and when they sign it it states they must have an understanding of all rules etc so its the responsibility of the rider to be educated no matter what way you are entered at an MNZ event.
I agree this may not be the best way but its the rules right now.

[chrispy121]

so with these times why wernt they put up to f1 or F2?

wasnt it supposed to be 1.10 in clubmans at puke then you are bumped up to a higher class

maybe if they are running these times then put them in a faster class then put a yellow vest on them.

there seems to be a lot of people getting 1000cc bikes just so they can be fast in clubmans.

maybe limit clubmans to a 600cc class for safety?

[Kiwi Graham]

Covering off a few points/comments raised since my last visit to this thread;

All bikes entering an AMCC event is put through scrutineering be that an ART day, Club event or National event.
Clubmans do not get issued day licenses, they must have MNZ licenses the same as every one else.

It is (or has been) the responsibility of the license holder to familiarise themselves with the rules inc flags prior to attending a race, the riders briefing is to 'brief' riders on the days protocols and point out any relevant issues for the day.

There is discussion going on about re-vamping the process for obtaining a license for the first time and this may well include a practical and theory test and the wearing of Hi-Viz for the first few races.

It is also important to remember first time racers need our support and part of that is ensuring that they are familiar with the basics and comfortable with that knowledge so they can concentrate on the job in hand (keeping upright and out of harms way) This is why we will be looking at a separate briefing for this class and include other 'junior racers' which will cover flags and rider etiquette, This and other aspects of race craft are addressed in group 4 of the ART days for those considering progressing into the racing scene. Personally I’m quite proud of the fact many riders who have progressed through the ranks of ART have also made there way onto the Club racing scene and some are doing very well indeed.

Lap times have been discussed and again will be looked at for next season, there will be an enforced lap time cut off and all new riders will be identifiable.

All of use started racing with a 'first race', I can still remember how nervous I was the first time I pulled out on to a circuit an I know I wasn't in the least concerned about rule 32.5.c or any such thing and the only flag I was keen on seeing was the chequered one. I was grateful to the racers around me who took me under there wing and the club I was in for steering me in the right direction, I spent 6-10 races (can’t remember) with a flappy yellow vest on before I was considered no longer needing to be identified as inexperienced. A proud day for me I can tell you.

The Clubmans class became very competitive this season and they will have learnt heaps, as I mentioned earlier the quicker ones will be in Formula Auckland or F2 next season and will continue that learning curve leaving the class for new racers to enter and start their racing carrier. I don’t think restricting Clubmans to capacity is the way to go because what is a 1000cc rider going to do jumping straight into F1 other than feel intimidated and ultimately put off.

Clubmans is as it should be, an introductory class for racing and with the time cut off and new rider ID as suggested together with a greater emphasis on their own briefing we shall all be able to move forward safely and competitively.

[Dreama]

Covering off a few points/comments raised since my last visit to this thread;

All bikes entering an AMCC event is put through scrutineering be that an ART day, Club event or National event.
Clubmans do not get issued day licenses, they must have MNZ licenses the same as every one else.

It is (or has been) the responsibility of the license holder to familiarise themselves with the rules inc flags prior to attending a race, the riders briefing is to 'brief' riders on the days protocols and point out any relevant issues for the day.

There is discussion going on about re-vamping the process for obtaining a license for the first time and this may well include a practical and theory test and the wearing of Hi-Viz for the first few races.

It is also important to remember first time racers need our support and part of that is ensuring that they are familiar with the basics and comfortable with that knowledge so they can concentrate on the job in hand (keeping upright and out of harms way) This is why we will be looking at a separate briefing for this class and include other 'junior racers' which will cover flags and rider etiquette, This and other aspects of race craft are addressed in group 4 of the ART days for those considering progressing into the racing scene. Personally I’m quite proud of the fact many riders who have progressed through the ranks of ART have also made there way onto the Club racing scene and some are doing very well indeed.

Lap times have been discussed and again will be looked at for next season, there will be an enforced lap time cut off and all new riders will be identifiable.

All of use started racing with a 'first race', I can still remember how nervous I was the first time I pulled out on to a circuit an I know I wasn't in the least concerned about rule 32.5.c or any such thing and the only flag I was keen on seeing was the chequered one. I was grateful to the racers around me who took me under there wing and the club I was in for steering me in the right direction, I spent 6-10 races (can’t remember) with a flappy yellow vest on before I was considered no longer needing to be identified as inexperienced. A proud day for me I can tell you.

The Clubmans class became very competitive this season and they will have learnt heaps, as I mentioned earlier the quicker ones will be in Formula Auckland or F2 next season and will continue that learning curve leaving the class for new racers to enter and start their racing carrier. I don’t think restricting Clubmans to capacity is the way to go because what is a 1000cc rider going to do jumping straight into F1 other than feel intimidated and ultimately put off.

Clubmans is as it should be, an introductory class for racing and with the time cut off and new rider ID as suggested together with a greater emphasis on their own briefing we shall all be able to move forward safely and competitively.

Well said and explained, and especially relevant is the part about encouraging new racers, which is what the clubmans class is for and the way they have come through from the ART days.

I suppose it's hard for this old boy to relate to the way so many clubmans have been able to reach those lap times so soon.
I'm guessing it's a combo of the mind bogglingly fast and well balanced over the counter 1000's and 600's, the riders who have adapted to those bikes and the speed very quickly and, as mentioned, the ART days.

Main thing is, it's all good for the race scene.