How does one learn the art of leaning?

[WillskE]

not sure if this is the right place to post this, have been riding for bout 5months... and keen to learn some new corning skills but i just have no idea who this "counter balance" and "change of center gravity" thing work

so could any experienced riders explain to me how its done? :confused:

saw this online the other day, seems interesting...http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/lean-bike.php

do we have anything like that here?



ps. any tips for the restricted test?

[SMOKEU]

Find someone a lot more experienced than you and get them to show you a few tricks.

Remember to look around the corner instead of straight ahead. Also drop your head and shoulder down when you're cornering.

[nzspokes]

Come see us at SASS, we will learn you up....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/117274-South-Auckland-Street-Skills?highlight=sass

And you can look at coming on this,

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/147511-Learner-Three-Day-North-Ride-%28Friday-4-May%29

Will be learning and fun.

[hayd3n]

look out for the
twist of the wrist book
or dvd
plenty to learn there
but take small steps
you will never be rossi
hell lorenzo only just got his scooter licence

[pritch]

Last time I looked the California Superbike School was here. Well, at Hampton Downs anyway.
Whether or not they have a "leaner" I couldn't say. Interestingly the CSS uses that contraption for level 2?

[flyingcrocodile46]

This is a pretty good explanation of cornering issues.

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/

Have a good read then carefully consider and select someone who might be suitable to have a talk to about what you learned and ask if they can help by demonstrating and helping you through some of the basics.

[EnzoYug]

Yup. Getting someone experienced will really help.

If you're keen to get some tips and go for a ride I'm in the central auckland area and will ride with you any night the weather is fine. We can ride, I'll observe ya, you can observe me and we can break it down over coffee. (Sounds like a date, shit my girlfriend might get jealous). I'll even bring the GoPro so you can see what you look like from the rear *cough* so to speak.

I've owned two Hyos and crashed both - I'm fairly familiar with their corner abilities. So unless you're keen to ride my word of advice, (which I'm sure someone will piss all over) will be to lean GRADUALLY - and watch your clearance, especially on the 07 / 08 kick stands.

Goodluck and remember - the fear will keep you alive. Probably.
:)

Aidan
ps. PM'ing me wont do shit, just txt me 021607524

[Brian d marge]

Start with a lamppost

you never know a certain little lady may come by...

Stephen

[Deano]

Take it to a track is one avenue, and follow/listen to someone who knows.

[jrandom]

http://www.motott.co.nz/

[Voltaire]

I joined the AMCC did some ART days, bought a bucket racer, John Conner who runs buckets always has a loaner bike to try,did level 1 and 2 of California Superbike School.
I've been riding for 30 years and would recommend the above.
Since doing that I raced in two classic meets.
Be cautious about going in group rides.
thats my 2 cents worth.

[trustme]

www.prorider.co.nz run by Karel Pavich . Runs schools at most race tracks. Taupo would suit you better than Puke.

Superbike school is in limbo & probably a bit advanced for you

Karel caters to all levels of ability, You get to do heaps of laps over the day. She will give you the learn on counter steering, target fixation , emergency braking & evasive action, all the stuff that will save your arse.

These are not a track day as such but a training day without the worry of cars on the road or other riders coming past at frightening speeds which can happen at open track days.

[tbs]

+1 for Karel Pavich and Pro-Rider.

I did a course with her at Puke after struggling to lean and therefore turn the bike for the first 1000km riding. It helped like you wouldn't believe. We went through all the various ways of making the bike steer and getting a bit of lean on and by the middle of the day I was feeling genuinely comfortable on the bike for the first time. By the end of the day I was giving my little 250 the beans and feeling really comfortable. I was even trying to get my knee down. In reality this was stupid and I would have been much better just focusing on riding properly, but what the hell... I was super noob, and a bit too influenced by all the internet heros on youtube. The next track day I did was at Hampton Downs and I got my knee down for the first time... this time without trying. Once you get the confidence to really lean and the chance to practice the techniques in a safe controlled environment, you'll make huge improvements.

There are a LOT of bad habits you can develop on a bike if left to your own devices, and they could easily kill you. Learn to do it correctly as early as you can.

Oh, and +1 for SASS too. Good instruction from good group riders.

b.

[baffa]

Leaning in itself isnt difficult.

I dont know about others, but I feel my handling skills are reasonable, the thing that always holds me back is the voice in the back of my head going will the tyres handle that? What if there is an unsighted bump or debris mid turn?
I find when you get into a flow of attacking corners properly, it's almost like meditation, you almost dont have to think about it.

[khabel]

1. Watch all 7 Twist of the Wrist 2 videos on youtube
2. ????
3. Profit

[slofox]

I have to say I have doubts about "learning" to lean...

From about the age of five, I rode two wheeled vehicles - treadlies first of course and motorised later on. As kids, we spent half of our lives on bikes. I figure that leaning was something that just happened - "learned" by a process of osmosis I suspect.

I don't really ever "think" about leaning on a motorbike - it just happens. Well, maybe when some dork comes around the corner on my side of the road, I might think about leaning a little (or a lot) more to get out of dorkface's way. But in general, it's just something that happens.

Having said that, I'd love to do the superbike school at Hampton Downs, just to gain further insight into the whole process of cornering.


Just my opinion.

[Deano]

CSS is a great course.

Not sure about an leaning apparatus at level 2 ? (or was that a PT) The only leaning apparatus I had was my bike.

[Voltaire]

1. Watch all 7 Twist of the Wrist 2 videos on youtube
2. ????
3. Profit


You'll have the underpants Gnomes after you :innocent:

[ckai]

The "leaning machine" is a friggin expensive kit that was considered by the people that run the Superbike School here but they thought, bugger it. It's is pretty cool because the US school uses it on a wet pad so you learn about what to do when the shit hits the fan.

I'm with the wise "young" slofox ;). I don't think you can "learn" to lean. The simple fact is you just go with the bike. That is something they teach you in Level 1 of the superbike school, but that is also where the stop when it comes to body position. There's more important things to learn before the knee hits the deck.

If you're going around a corner and you find your upper body seems to be in line with the outside of the bike, you're fighting the bike. Your upper body should be nice and relaxed and go with whatever it feels like it wants to do.

Definitely go for a ride with someone experienced that you think rides smooth and doesn't look like they rush. It really is about being relaxed on the bike and going with the flow.

I've done a few professional training sessions on road and track and by far the best is the Superbike School.

[slofox]

I'm with the wise "young" slofox ;).

You are a gentleman and a scholar Sir!

[tigertim20]

cant be fucked reading every post...

Get your hands on a copy of the video or the book twist of the wrist - it explains alot.

If its lean angle you are after - a big empty carpark is a good place to learn to get your knee down at low speed if thats your thing.

Mostly though, its about getting out there - how many kms have you dont on your bike in 5 months? - it takes time to learn to ride smoothly, dont rush it, just get out there and enjoy your ride:sunny:

[DrunkenMistake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr7x8aBhtJY

Enjoy.

[FJRider]

To fully learn the art of leaning and cornering ... it is best practiced on a borrowed bike ... :innocent:

[Horney1]

I don't know about this learning to lean thing either. Happens naturally, doesn't it?

Centre of gravity (CoG): try these with small changes from normal position first. Once you have a feel for the effect then you can try more.

Try riding along in a straight line (a big empty car park might be good as previously mentioned). Then with arms a little bit relaxed and taking a little of your weight on your legs (both) try moving your butt off to the side of the seat a little bit (the more you move sideways the greater the effect). This makes the CoG move sideways, bike wants to (& can) fall over, if you allow it and you haven't moved too far sideways the bike will generally turn. You might want to be ready to get your butt back on the seat properly fairly quickly though if you go too far sideways or hold that position too long. If you do it while going too slow the bike will fall over (stopped being the extreme of slow!). If you do it too long the bike will fall over (or go in a circle :laugh:).


Same applies for moving the CoG downward, forward or backward - body positioning.

As someone basically said earlier, try to not over think it. FEEL the bike, the balance point, the force(s) (and may the force be with you :D).

+1 for Keith Code

[Fast Eddie]

To fully learn the art of leaning and cornering ... it is best practiced on a borrowed bike ... :innocent:

best advice. I concur.

[WillskE]

wow thanks for all the reply s every body i guess i ll just slowly learn and adept as i ride more from what most is suggesting :yes:

[WillskE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr7x8aBhtJY

Enjoy.

what i dont get from watching the video is that wouldn't you low slide if your leaning and use counter steering?

[davebullet]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is fear / panic. Signals are when you enter a corner "too fast" and feel:
a) your vision shortening (can invole looking down or to the outside edge of the road) or you
b) your arms / hands tightening
c) your body going rigid
d) leaning out (the bike leans in and you fight it by leaning unconsciously out "motard" style).

When the above happens you are NEVER (in that moment) going to learn. The best solution is to go slower. That's right. Learning occurs at 7/10ths - not 10/10ths. I don't mean 10/10ths in terms of what the bike can handle - but 10/10ths is your maximum current comfort zone. AS you gain more skills, you will corner quicker with the correct technique and increase your comfort zone.

If you feel panic coming on the single most important thing you can do is look further through the corner.

When you look further out - there is less "rushing" your vision (you know that feeling you get when you look sideways out a car window at speed, vs. in the distance straight ahead?) Too much motion induces panic (sensory overload).

You may not have heard the expression "you go where you look" and that is 100% the key with motorcycling.

If you focus on an object - you will go there (eg. lampost).

If you see a car brake in front of you and focus on that... well...

The secret is to focus on the gap, the end of the corner etc.. where you want to go (not what you want to avoid).

Hope the above helps. Don't be in a rush to learn. In fact you never stop with motorcycling (doesn't matter how many Kays or years you have under your belt).

Look for people on here with an :Me after their name. They are mentors and can be called on for advice and even rides with to tutor you.

PS: make sure you always wear all your protective gear too and invest in good quality gear. Ask family / friends to give you vouchers / cash so you can upgrade your gear. It will save your arse.

[Monsterbishi]

what i dont get from watching the video is that wouldn't you low slide if your leaning and use counter steering?

Time for your first real lesson in motorcycles :-)

Pay some attention to what direction your handle bars are facing the next time you go round a corner at speed. Spooky, huh :innocent:

Summary - counter steering is how bikes turn at speed, the only time you're not counter steering is when you're maneuvering at low speed.

[Horney1]

........

"you go where you look" and that is 100% the key with motorcycling.

If you focus on an object - you will go there (eg. lampost).

If you see a car brake in front of you and focus on that... well...

The secret is to focus on the gap, the end of the corner etc.. where you want to go (not what you want to avoid).

.....

It will save your arse.


Very true, look where you want to go. I would add keeping your head (eyes) level with the horizon will help initially and longer.

As for saving arses, don't worry too much about that part of the anatomy, they grow back after a decent graze - some more than others! It's the skeletal system, joints, ligaments and nerves you have to watch out for.

[SPP]

what i dont get from watching the video is that wouldn't you low slide if your leaning and use counter steering?

Ummm, yes? that's why you stop counter steering once you've reached the lean angle you need

Counter steering works the other way as well. If you pushed the inside bar to turn in what do you think would happen if you pulled the inside bar? stand the bike up? would that be good at corner exit?

[actungbaby]

not sure if this is the right place to post this, have been riding for bout 5months... and keen to learn some new corning skills but i just have no idea who this "counter balance" and "change of center gravity" thing work

so could any experienced riders explain to me how its done? :confused:

saw this online the other day, seems interesting...http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/lean-bike.php

do we have anything like that here?



ps. any tips for the restricted test?

man from chch told me he raced owned bike shop for many years , like skating its all in the balance and being smooth with body moments, counter steering is pushing bars out left to turn right well more gentle pressure.

Riding course i did we but weight belt on so u chould feel what weight did , just take your bike around empty car
park but some things to ride around at slow speed is way to get your skills poished, try diffrent body leans
keep top half still move your middle little see how it affects the bike , also can drag rear brake to quicken steering

only in slow bends though under 30 kph

[BMWST?]

you have got to learn on a familar road,relax and let the bike lean over.You must do this on a part of the road that you can see whats coming in advance so you can moderate your speed/lean if you have to...its the only way of doing it shoer t of going to a race track.We all learnt how far we can lean by degrees,and have to relearn to some extent when we get another bike....you will find the bike will feel different if it is coasting or under power.

[EnzoYug]

Setup a date with Will and Myself to get all romantic over burning fossil fuels. If anyone else of serious noobdom wants to come for a ride in central Auckland this Wednesday night PM me.

note - we're not going to be carving corners but practicing all the basics of good, smooth riding.

[Grubber]

I have to say I have doubts about "learning" to lean...

From about the age of five, I rode two wheeled vehicles - treadlies first of course and motorised later on. As kids, we spent half of our lives on bikes. I figure that leaning was something that just happened - "learned" by a process of osmosis I suspect.

I don't really ever "think" about leaning on a motorbike - it just happens. Well, maybe when some dork comes around the corner on my side of the road, I might think about leaning a little (or a lot) more to get out of dorkface's way. But in general, it's just something that happens.

Having said that, I'd love to do the superbike school at Hampton Downs, just to gain further insight into the whole process of cornering.


Just my opinion.

I'd go with the CSS. I've done all levels and i've ridden bikes all my life, i still learned alot from doing it.
don't think we can tell you in a forum how to ride to be fair. Seat time always helps after you have taken on some basic skills from someone who knows a bit.:yes:

[ckai]

what i dont get from watching the video is that wouldn't you low slide if your leaning and use counter steering?

Superbike School Level 1. Physics and gyroscopic forces. Of course, over thinking all this brainy stuff does not a good rider you make.:)

If you've ever riden around a corner above 50km/h the bike will be leaning and you will be counter-steering. Good old forces of nature. The amount of force of the counter-steer determines the speed of your turn and the speed at which your bike will get to lean. Racers push 'hard' and quick. If you just slightly lean towards the inside of the corner, your body and bike naturally counter steers. Just very mildly. It's a bloody scary concept though and I've been on 2 wheels all my life.

Try counter steering on a bicycle at slow speed :) You'll soon work out it's a quicker way to turn and you can go a lot faster.

Like I was told, accept that you're already doing it, do it a little harder each time to see what happens and go with the bike, not against it. It really is simple.

[Bender]

+1 for Karel Pavich and Pro-Rider.

I did a course with her at Puke after struggling to lean and therefore turn the bike for the first 1000km riding. It helped like you wouldn't believe.

b.

+1. Excellent courses. Best money I've spent on biking.

[Voltaire]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is fear / panic. Signals are when you enter a corner "too fast" and feel:
a) your vision shortening (can invole looking down or to the outside edge of the road) or you
b) your arms / hands tightening
c) your body going rigid
d) leaning out (the bike leans in and you fight it by leaning unconsciously out "motard" style).

When the above happens you are NEVER (in that moment) going to learn. The best solution is to go slower. That's right. Learning occurs at 7/10ths - not 10/10ths. I don't mean 10/10ths in terms of what the bike can handle - but 10/10ths is your maximum current comfort zone. AS you gain more skills, you will corner quicker with the correct technique and increase your comfort zone.

If you feel panic coming on the single most important thing you can do is look further through the corner.

When you look further out - there is less "rushing" your vision (you know that feeling you get when you look sideways out a car window at speed, vs. in the distance straight ahead?) Too much motion induces panic (sensory overload).

You may not have heard the expression "you go where you look" and that is 100% the key with motorcycling.

If you focus on an object - you will go there (eg. lampost).

If you see a car brake in front of you and focus on that... well...

The secret is to focus on the gap, the end of the corner etc.. where you want to go (not what you want to avoid).

Hope the above helps. Don't be in a rush to learn. In fact you never stop with motorcycling (doesn't matter how many Kays or years you have under your belt).

Look for people on here with an :Me after their name. They are mentors and can be called on for advice and even rides with to tutor you.

PS: make sure you always wear all your protective gear too and invest in good quality gear. Ask family / friends to give you vouchers / cash so you can upgrade your gear. It will save your arse.

All good points and the CSS has training modules on all this and it works, I worked a lot on being relaxed, turning points, the three step, etc. I run an old Skool BMW 900.....I never expected to scrape the heads cornering....and I have raised the motor....
CSS,Best money I have spent on my bike.
The next ART day is in April and it caters for all abilities, first time is a bit nerve wracking but its all good.
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