Dual-purpose eligible for "Prolite"?

[kiwifruit]

This class of motorcycle requires an MNZ Homologation, with a minimum of 50 units sold of that mass produced motorcycle.
This homologated motorcycle must be a street type, road registerable and Wof mass production machine, available and sold new in New Zealand.

This class to be called “PROLITE”.


Does anyone know how "motorcycle must be a street type" is interpreted? Does it mean the bike was sold new with lights and plate or is it more strict than that?

I'm just thinking out loud really. The particular bike in question is a 2005 WR250.

<img src="http://www.yamaha-motorcycles.org/images/WR250F.jpg">

[Mental Trousers]

Pretty sure that'd get labelled a Motard mate.

From MNZ rules Chapter 34 (http://mnz.co.nz/download/2012_MoMS_Chapter_34_Super_Motard.pdf):


34.2.3 Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a purpose built off road bike must also be available from the manufacturer.


34.5 Frames
Must be of original OEM dirt bike origin without alteration to steering head and swinging arm pivot

[kiwifruit]

I'm sure it is eligible for motards, but what about prolite? It was sold new in NZ with dot legal tyres, lights and all the road gear.

[Mental Trousers]

I think it'd have to race in Motards because it has a dedicated off road model so wouldn't be eligible for Pro Lites.

[kiwifruit]

Was there an off road only WR250 model?

[Mental Trousers]

Pass. But then I'm not the one to ask.

I can tell you that anything eligible for Motards is fighting a losing battle to get into Pro Lites.

[kiwifruit]

Is it eligible for motards?

The WR250 didn't come as a purpose built off road bike, did it?

34.2.3 (Motards)
Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a purpose built off road bike must also be available from the
manufacturer.

[jrandom]

If I was running a racing club, I wouldn't let a four-stroke 250 MX bike into Prolites. The thing of yours makes 27hp stock and weighs the same as a Scorpio. It defeats the purpose of the class. It'd just clean up everything in the field and turn it into a four-stroke 250 MX class. Nek minnit there'd be a man turning up on a KTM 250 with 35hp, etc, etc.

And everyone with Ninja 250s would just hang their heads and go home because there was no class for them any more.

[kiwifruit]

If I was running a racing club, I wouldn't let a four-stroke 250 MX bike into Prolites. The thing of yours makes 27hp stock and weighs the same as a Scorpio. It defeats the purpose of the class. It'd just clean up everything in the field and turn it into a four-stroke 250 MX class. Nek minnit there'd be a man turning up on a KTM 250 with 35hp, etc, etc.

And everyone with Ninja 250s would just hang their heads and go home because there was no class for them any more.

It's not a MX bike, it's a dual purpose bike.

I don't think it would be competitive at the pointy end. It may have a performance edge down low but it would lack top end. Tyre selection is limited to dual purpose tyres... nothing sticky, so corner speed would be down on others in class.

[jrandom]

It's not a MX bike, it's a dual purpose bike.

I spoooooooose.


I don't think it would be competitive at the pointy end. It may have a performance edge down low but it would lack top end. Tyre selection is limited to dual purpose tyres... nothing sticky, so corner speed would be down on others in class.

All right, let's see how ya go then!

[malcy25]

Check with MNZ as there may be a homologated models list. ie Model has to be on the list to be used in the class.

[Deano]

Best to ask MNZ mate - you'll just stir up a shit fight in here.

[kiwifruit]

Hopefully Billy will see this thread and reply here so others can see. No need for a shit fight :sunny:

[RobGassit]

UNBEPHUCKINLIEVEABLE :facepalm:

[kiwifruit]

UNBEPHUCKINLIEVEABLE :facepalm:

hmm ?

[Billy]

Best to ask MNZ mate - you'll just stir up a shit fight in here.

Correct on both counts Deano

[jrandom]

UNBEPHUCKINLIEVEABLE :facepalm:

<img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/o8f62g.jpg"/>

[kiwifruit]

Correct

Ok, i'll ask MNZ. Who should I contact, Billy?

[Punchy]

Seriously Allan, how dare you have an original idea to try and up the fun factor, and probably get more entries to meetings. How fucking dare you?!

Do as you are told and enter motard, get raped by 450s, and don't bother ever again.

[Billy]

Ok, i'll ask MNZ. Who should I contact, Billy?

Ummm,That would be me at acrfibrelass@actrix.co.nz or mnzrrc@gmail.com

[kiwifruit]

Ummm,That would be me at acrfibrelass@actrix.co.nz or mnzrrc@gmail.com

Thanks. I telephoned MNZ and a young lady gave me that email address. Email has been sent :)

[Billy]

Thanks. I telephoned MNZ and a young lady gave me that email address. Email has been sent :)

And replied to!!

[Deano]

So what is the upshot ?

[Mental Trousers]

.... Allan's following in the footstep of many that have gone before him and told no.

That's my guess.

[kiwifruit]

Got a positive and prompt reply from the roadrace commissioner. I'll paste that here if that's ok with him?

[tigertim20]

hopefully it means you can enter it. i dont see why it shouldnt be allowed to enter if it was offered as a road ready bike.
Of course there will also be people who dont want anything that might have a chance of beating them made eligible - but thats racing I suppose, if you cant win, whine and bitch till the other guy gets banned . . .:innocent:

[Sable]

This springs to mind.. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-454925235.htm

[gixerracer]

It's not a MX bike, it's a dual purpose bike.

I don't think it would be competitive at the pointy end. It may have a performance edge down low but it would lack top end. Tyre selection is limited to dual purpose tyres... nothing sticky, so corner speed would be down on others in class.

Are you blind or just plain stupid

[Mental Trousers]

Usually it's something to do with the handlebars I think. Clip on's are road bikes, flat bars across the top are tards.

[gixerracer]

This class of motorcycle requires an MNZ Homologation, with a minimum of 50 units sold of that mass produced motorcycle.
This homologated motorcycle must be a street type, road registerable and Wof mass production machine, available and sold new in New Zealand.

This class to be called “PROLITE”.


Does anyone know how "motorcycle must be a street type" is interpreted? Does it mean the bike was sold new with lights and plate or is it more strict than that?

I'm just thinking out loud really. The particular bike in question is a 2005 WR250.

<img src="http://www.yamaha-motorcycles.org/images/WR250F.jpg">

Got this of Yamaha UK Website

Championship-quality engineering.With a string of World Championships to its credit, the WR250F is one of today's most respected enduro bikes. Whether you're an amateur or pro, serious racer or club rider, this machine will let you discover your true off-road potential.

The winning combination of a free-revving, 4-stroke, DOHC, 5-valve engine and a compact and lightweight aluminium chassis ensures that the WR250F can compete and win on virtually any type of terrain.

Specially developed enduro transmission and suspension give you ultimate control and handling - in the forest its famous agility is second to none, while on the quick sections this gutsy 250 runs hard and fast

[merv]

What is the interpretation of "street type" by those that wrote the rules.

In my view the WR is an enduro bike and it is more dirt than street but does that rule it out of "street type" It isn't a moto-x bike - the YZ does that job. I happily ride my WR on the road as it was fully road legal when I bought it and it still is. I'd sooner it had a 6 speed gearbox if it went anywhere near a road race track though.

All the same I couldn't imagine it being that competitive against a good 250 twin road bike on a road race track.

[kiwifruit]

Are you blind or just plain stupid

I'm not sure how to respond to that, Mr Shirriffs. I guess that makes me stupid :(

[Billy]

Got a positive and prompt reply from the roadrace commissioner. I'll paste that here if that's ok with him?

Yip,Thats fine by me,I just don't want to set a precedent whereby people will think I'm going to answer every question asked on kiwibiker,There is a protocol to follow and now you know what it is I don't expect you will use any other channels

[kiwifruit]

Yip,Thats fine by me,I just don't want to set a precedent whereby people will think I'm going to answer every question asked on kiwibiker,There is a protocol to follow and now you know what it is I don't expect you will use any other channels

Thanks Billy.

Hi Allan,

Yip saw your thread on kiwibiker,Very valid question,Its probably not what was intended when Paul Stewart and a number of us other self confessed experts intended when formulating the original rules for the class,In fact its a classic case of Peter Ramage shooting himself in the foot whilst trying to open the class up for the Daelims etc,Of course you'd have to convince Yamaha NZ to apply for homologation first and then theres no guarantee the board would ratify it even if by some miracle I managed to get it past the rest of the commission,Then I think you'd struggle to get decent tyres as youve already alluded to and another area Ive found to be a problem converting dirt based machines to roadracing is you generally cant get even close with the external gearing with out changing the rearwheel.

Thanks for bringing your enquiry to the correct channels and let me know if you want me to take it further with the commission,I am holding a face to face with the whole commission at Hampton Downs this weekend,So the timing will be perfect.

Kind regards
Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ

[lostinflyz]

Thanks Billy.

Hi Allan,

Yip saw your thread on kiwibiker,Very valid question,Its probably not what was intended when Paul Stewart and a number of us other self confessed experts intended when formulating the original rules for the class,In fact its a classic case of Peter Ramage shooting himself in the foot whilst trying to open the class up for the Daelims etc,Of course you'd have to convince Yamaha NZ to apply for homologation first and then theres no guarantee the board would ratify it even if by some miracle I managed to get it past the rest of the commission,Then I think you'd struggle to get decent tyres as youve already alluded to and another area Ive found to be a problem converting dirt based machines to roadracing is you generally cant get even close with the external gearing with out changing the rearwheel.

Thanks for bringing your enquiry to the correct channels and let me know if you want me to take it further with the commission,I am holding a face to face with the whole commission at Hampton Downs this weekend,So the timing will be perfect.

Kind regards
Graeme Billington
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ


sprockets and brake discs for dirt bikes are easy. it just requires, a creative imagination, a few hours work (jt sprockets website ect) and a file..... ok so itll eat chain sliders in a day but there plastic and cheap...........hahaha

i had a dabble at doing something similar with the SXV for protwin, but again the homologation side was an issue unfortunately....

[gixerracer]

I'm not sure how to respond to that, Mr Shirriffs. I guess that makes me stupid :(

Hahahaha most people would just abuse me which is kind of what I expected:innocent:

[budda]

Thanks Billy.

[I]Hi Allan,

Yip saw your thread on kiwibiker,Very valid question,Its probably not what was intended when Paul Stewart and a number of us other self confessed experts intended when formulating the original rules for the class,In fact its a classic case of Peter Ramage shooting himself in the foot whilst trying to open the class up for the Daelims etc .

........ And the Megelli's, and the Honda's, and the rumoured other Big 4 250 single ....... the Class is and always has been for stock standard "250" four stroke roadbikes, imported by mainstream Distributors for everyday use ........ nice spot of lateral thinking though !

There IS a list of Homologated bikes on the MNZ website, nothing hidden ...... get yourself a bike off the list, and come play

[SWERVE]

It is a shame that there isnt eligible & competitive 250s from a wide range of makers. That would be awesome both for riders and manufactuers.
Think to make a WR 250 fit the bill...is a little "out there"
Thought there was some ruling about max bar width (and as changing hieght/position is not allowed)
Agree finding decent skinny race tyres that comply to recommended fitment might be hard.
Be about as aerodynamic as a brick (as not allowed to add fairing/streamlining)
Would run out off puff on std gearing.... gear it for speed and sacrifice low end pull.
front suspension might need more than a fluid/volume change too
Good onya if you can swing it within the rules........

On a positive note.......... wouldnt suffer ground clearence probs with sidestand bracket.............. sorry had to add that one:)

[Yow Ling]

There IS a list of Homologated bikes on the MNZ website, nothing hidden ...... get yourself a bike off the list, and come play

While it might not be hidden, I looked for ages and couldnt find it

[Ender EnZed]

Usually it's something to do with the handlebars I think. Clip on's are road bikes, flat bars across the top are tards.

Thought there was some ruling about max bar width (and as changing hieght/position is not allowed)


If someone had a Ninja with flat MX bars would there be any class it was eligible for?

[Billy]

While it might not be hidden, I looked for ages and couldnt find it

Go to the homepage/sportsnews scroll down to roadracing and click on that then scroll down and there it is

[SWERVE]

If someone had a Ninja with flat MX bars would there be any class it was eligible for?

Providing the bars conformed to max bar width it would be eligible for F3...........

[budda]

been a question I've been struggling to answer for years ..... why IS it that the only bikes people say they want to race are one of the very few that arent directly catered for under the current Class structure ?

There IS a Class that the WR fits neatly into ...... its just not in real racing. Contact your local Jumping Bike Club

[budda]

Providing the bars conformed to max bar width it would be eligible for F3...........

So if you fitted a cross-brace to the standard bars on a DL650, does that make it an MX bike or a Motard ?

[CHOPPA]

Im starting to understand how important it is to not restrict modifications to much. proddy racing causes way to many arguments and without mods there is not really parity between brands.

[budda]

It is a shame that there isnt eligible & competitive 250s from a wide range of makers. That would be awesome both for riders and manufactuers.
On a positive note.......... wouldnt suffer ground clearence probs with sidestand bracket.............. sorry had to add that one:)

There IS an easily achievable and available Class of bikes that every major Distributor has at least one machine suitable for -
now, if we could just get people interested in Moto450 bikes racing within Superlite ....... Husaberg, Husqvarna, KTM, GasGas, Sherco, BMW, all the Jap brands and others I cant think of at the mo, all with a suitable and eligible bike ......
just one of each would almost double the numbers !!!!!!! AWESOME

[SWERVE]

So if you fitted a cross-brace to the standard bars on a DL650, does that make it an MX bike or a Motard ?

It would be a DL650 with stupid looking cross brace:)
I reckon some "easy rider" apehangers on on a BMW S1000 would be the go........... and probebly still be a class for it at SOT (dare you Choppa!)
Enough fun for one night..im off to bed.

[tigertim20]

Im starting to understand how important it is to not restrict modifications to much. proddy racing causes way to many arguments and without mods there is not really parity between brands.

thats where skills come in!

[budda]

It would be a DL650 with stupid looking cross brace:)
I reckon some "easy rider" apehangers on on a BMW S1000 would be the go........... and probebly still be a class for it at SOT (dare you Choppa!)
Enough fun for one night..im off to bed.

As long as they were welded chain bars with 3' leather tassles, Choppa could get away with his arseless leather chaps !!!!!!!!

[SWERVE]

There IS an easily achievable and available Class of bikes that every major Distributor has at least one machine suitable for -
now, if we could just get people interested in Moto450 bikes racing within Superlite ....... Husaberg, Husqvarna, KTM, GasGas, Sherco, BMW, all the Jap brands and others I cant think of at the mo, all with a suitable and eligible bike ......
just one of each would almost double the numbers !!!!!!! AWESOME

Just what we need..........another class within a class..F3/Superlite..... but seriously that would be AN AWESOME class. Both from a manufactures point and those who like to fettle. Be a good intermeadiate level class for youngsters also. Used to love watching the Supermono class in UK (not quite the same but same principle)..... brought on some good talant too.

[budda]

just what we need..........another class within a class..f3/superlite..... But seriously that would be an awesome class. Both from a manufactures point and those who like to fettle. Be a good intermeadiate level class for youngsters also. Used to love watching the supermono class in uk (not quite the same but same principle)..... Brought on some good talant too.

egg zachary

[Billy]

Im starting to understand how important it is to not restrict modifications to much. proddy racing causes way to many arguments and without mods there is not really parity between brands.


Absolute rubbish Sloan,You clearly don't understand at all,As an entry level development class,Its vital that the rules in place are adhered to,Its not the proddy classes that cause the problem,Its the idiots that enter into those classes that take themselves far too seriously and think they are above all others and should be allowed to flout the rules in the name of safety,Classic example are the four competitors that turned up at Ruapuna this year knowing their machines were outside the rules and then proceeded to argue the point,They had been told on numerous occassions their machines were illegal well before they travelled from Auckland to Christchurch,Classic case of parity of machinery,Both the Hyosung GT250r and Kawasaki EX 250 are around the 30 hp mark,The Kawasaki is a far superior racebike,Why???,Not because as the liars will tell you because the Kawasaki has more ground clearance cause it hasn't,In fact it has less when you take into consideration the Hyosung has adjustable footpeg brackets the Kawasaki doesn't,No its because the Hyosung weighs close to 20kgs more,The Hyosung has wider wheels enabling it to run Pirelli super corsa's,A far superior tyre than the bridgestones and Dunlops afforded the kawasaki's,Swings and roundabouts really,The fact is Sam and Seth are a cut above the rest in the class and the others are prepared to lie and cheat to try and even it up.

No mate,Sorry,Theres NOTHING wrong with the proddy rules weve got,Just a small percentage of the competitors who think they are special.

[RobGassit]

Absolute rubbish Sloan,You clearly don't understand at all,As an entry level development class,Its vital that the rules in place are adhered to,Its not the proddy classes that cause the problem,Its the idiots that enter into those classes that take themselves far too seriously and think they are above all others and should be allowed to flout the rules in the name of safety,Classic example are the four competitors that turned up at Ruapuna this year knowing their machines were outside the rules and then proceeded to argue the point,They had been told on numerous occassions their machines were illegal well before they travelled from Auckland to Christchurch,Classic case of parity of machinery,Both the Hyosung GT250r and Kawasaki EX 250 are around the 30 hp mark,The Kawasaki is a far superior racebike,Why???,Not because as the liars will tell you because the Kawasaki has more ground clearance cause it hasn't,In fact it has less when you take into consideration the Hyosung has adjustable footpeg brackets the Kawasaki doesn't,No its because the Hyosung weighs close to 20kgs more,The Hyosung has wider wheels enabling it to run Pirelli super corsa's,A far superior tyre than the bridgestones and Dunlops afforded the kawasaki's,Swings and roundabouts really,The fact is Sam and Seth are a cut above the rest in the class and the others are prepared to lie and cheat to try and even it up.

No mate,Sorry,Theres NOTHING wrong with the proddy rules weve got,Just a small percentage of the competitors who think they are special.

Some are more SPECIAL than others, like the Nimrod that started this thread.

[Grumph]

Absolute rubbish Sloan,You clearly don't understand at all,As an entry level development class,Its vital that the rules in place are adhered to,Its not the proddy classes that cause the problem,Its the idiots that enter into those classes that take themselves far too seriously and think they are above all others and should be allowed to flout the rules in the name of safety,Classic example are the four competitors that turned up at Ruapuna this year knowing their machines were outside the rules and then proceeded to argue the point,They had been told on numerous occassions their machines were illegal well before they travelled from Auckland to Christchurch,Classic case of parity of machinery,Both the Hyosung GT250r and Kawasaki EX 250 are around the 30 hp mark,The Kawasaki is a far superior racebike,Why???,Not because as the liars will tell you because the Kawasaki has more ground clearance cause it hasn't,In fact it has less when you take into consideration the Hyosung has adjustable footpeg brackets the Kawasaki doesn't,No its because the Hyosung weighs close to 20kgs more,The Hyosung has wider wheels enabling it to run Pirelli super corsa's,A far superior tyre than the bridgestones and Dunlops afforded the kawasaki's,Swings and roundabouts really,The fact is Sam and Seth are a cut above the rest in the class and the others are prepared to lie and cheat to try and even it up.

No mate,Sorry,Theres NOTHING wrong with the proddy rules weve got,Just a small percentage of the competitors who think they are special.

Nothing's changed - years ago i was involved in the last - round, post race teardown of the whole 250 prod class. The front runners were all without exception dead stock, legal. From about 5th back we found everything you can imagine....it's the guys at the back of the field who cheat to try to get to the middle of the bunch to at least look competitive.
The problem resulting from what we found was that one distributor in particular was involved at appeal level and testified that the mods we found would make no difference hence the competitor in question was reinstated. If your distributors won't stand behind the organisers to keep bikes standard you're on a losing wicket....

[kiwifruit]

Some are more SPECIAL than others, like the Nimrod that started this thread.

Have you got a personal grievance with me? I was simply thinking out loud and asking for opinions and interpretations on the rules. What's the problem?

[Str8 Jacket]

Have you got a personal grievance with me? I was simply thinking out loud and asking for opinions and interpretations on the rules. What's the problem?

The problem was that you tried toi think for yourself. You should know that, that is not allowed in UnZud!

[yungatart]

Have you got a personal grievance with me? I was simply thinking out loud and asking for opinions and interpretations on the rules. What's the problem?

Its not personal Kiwifruit. He treats everyone aggressively, you are nothing special :whistle:

[lukemillar]

The problem was that you tried toi think for yourself. You should know that, that is not allowed in UnZud!

Actually the problem was, after thinking for yourself, you decided to post it on kiwibiker! :facepalm:

[nodrog]

Have you got a personal grievance with me? I was simply thinking out loud and asking for opinions and interpretations on the rules. What's the problem?

I think he is calling you a God

http://xac.xanga.com/289d3a702443296182605/m67368444.jpg

[Str8 Jacket]

Actually the problem was, after thinking for yourself, you decided to post it on kiwibiker! :facepalm:

Nah the internets don't hurt ya - but being a soft cock might....!

[kiwifruit]

been a question I've been struggling to answer for years ..... why IS it that the only bikes people say they want to race are one of the very few that arent directly catered for under the current Class structure ?



I am new to the racing scene, looking forward to my first race (RG150, #32 Streetstock) in a few weeks at the PMCC round in Taupo. I was curious about the WR250 and prolite. As I said, just thinking out loud

:sunny: :sunny:

[jellywrestler]

Are you blind or just plain stupid nah; he's from Feilding

[jellywrestler]

Im starting to understand how important it is to not restrict modifications to much. proddy racing causes way to many arguments and without mods there is not really parity between brands.
that's what Formula Three is for Choppa, or Ultralite I think it's now called.

[Billy]

that's what Formula Three is for Choppa, or Ultralite I think it's now called.

Superlite maybe???

[Tony.OK]

http://www.usmansheikh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/thinking-out-of-the-box.jpg
:innocent::laugh:

[Billy]

I am new to the racing scene, looking forward to my first race (RG150, #32 Streetstock) in a few weeks at the PMCC round in Taupo. I was curious about the WR250 and prolite. As I said, just thinking out loud

:sunny: :sunny:

No need to apologise mate,It was a valid question,I'm thinking Rob got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning is all LOL!

[jellywrestler]

Superlite maybe???

thanks Billy, I'll need that word for the next two weekends...

[RobGassit]

Have you got a personal grievance with me? I was simply thinking out loud and asking for opinions and interpretations on the rules. What's the problem?

No dramas Kiwi, Sorry if I've been a little blunt. Prolite is clawing it's way out of the cradle and in only it's second year is still vulnerable to those who would not appreciate the bigger picture and why it is so important as an entry level class to keep it simple and straight forward. The rules are already being twisted by those who wish to turn an advantage,( Appeal to be heard on Wednesday) and your notion that any 250 production bike may be able to compete opens a huge can of worms. One manufacturer even started their own (one make) class of racing in competition with Prolite in it's first year! Hence the Homologation.Your profile also suggests you are a seasoned veteran, not a newbie to racing, as you now tell us, so,,in that vain,,welcolme aboard.
Prolite is attempting to reintroduce 250cc entry level production class road racing for PRODUCTION ROAD BIKES built,sold and homologated fit for that purpose. This matches Australia and Europe who are reintroducing the same class. The hope being we can encourage at the lowest cost possible, young racers to foresake the dirt scene and come play with us. If we don't have these young people in our sport it will die.
I'm a huge Motard fan and have had my balls busted on here many times standing up for their right to scratch pavement with the purists. Like you i took it personally at first but quickly realised that everyone on here speaks their mind and can be ruthless, however we would probably all laugh over a beer about it at the pub. For those of you that think I'm a hard bastard, live with it. It's phuckin kiwibiker for phucks sake! As I've been reminded several times.
On a personal note, we have lost so many racers and motorcyclists recently, that I find it even harder to worry too much about what is said on here anyway. Stay safe everyone, today could be your last.

[kiwifruit]

Thanks Rob. I'm a trackday veteran, heaps of laps as a lines rider for MotoTT, but racing, and the rules associated with racing, is all new to me.

[jasonu]

nah; he's from Feilding


This clip seems appropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE

[budda]

I am new to the racing scene, looking forward to my first race (RG150, #32 Streetstock) in a few weeks at the PMCC round in Taupo. I was curious about the WR250 and prolite. As I said, just thinking out loud

:sunny: :sunny:

Maaate, not specifically aimed at you - the scattergun approach encompasses all those who rail against the existing Classes, the "I'd race my XYZ212 if only there was a class for it" argument wears thin after almost 40 years at this game.

You're on the right track, the StreetStocks are a great way to build skills, all the legal bikes are within cooee of each other, and there is ( at least down here in New Zealand, not sure about that Island off the Northern Coast ) a pretty good deal of support for each other too, which helps when starting out ........ key words SMOOOOOOTH, and FUUUUUUUN ........ enjoy !!!!!!!!!!!!

[gatch]

the "I'd race my XYZ212 if only there was a class for it" argument wears thin after almost 40 years at this game.

Funny thing is MOST bikes out there will fit into an existing class. Just most won't be competitive and cunts would rather moan than do something constructive about it..

I'm soon to get my stock NC30 on the track. I propose that modified bikes get given a 20second penalty for making an effort to be competitive.

[wharfy]

Seriously Allan, how dare you have an original idea to try and up the fun factor, and probably get more entries to meetings. How fucking dare you?!

Do as you are told and enter motard, get raped by 450s, and don't bother ever again.

C'mon man the prolite is a 250 street bike class for production bikes, that is a dirt bike. The whole idea of the class is to have "similar" machines, and it is doing pretty well as far as numbers and close racing go and is getting more popular. Oh, it's not an original idea either, people raced dirt bikes in road races in the 70's.