Opinions, please

[MSTRS]

I've been looking and applying for jobs for over a year now. Have had a few interviews, but no luck.
I have it on good authority that there is nothing wrong, and plenty right, with my app. letters, so I am wondering what I can do to increase my chances of an interview, at the very least.
I have some on the go atm, and have had the 'Your application has been received...' emails.
Should I follow up with a phone call or wait until they contact me?
Anything else I can try?

[placidfemme]

I've been looking and applying for jobs for over a year now. Have had a few interviews, but no luck.
I have it on good authority that there is nothing wrong, and plenty right, with my app. letters, so I am wondering what I can do to increase my chances of an interview, at the very least.
I have some on the go atm, and have had the 'Your application has been received...' emails.
Should I follow up with a phone call or wait until they contact me?
Anything else I can try?

In my opinion...

I am assuming you are going for local jobs, if so I would say go in to the business in person, ask to see the person in-charge of the recruitment for the role, meet them, give them your CV and briefly sell yourself and you skill set relevant to the position advertised.

Every job I have had I have applied in person and got the job, every job I have applied for online or through email or a recruitment agent has never turned into a job.

my 2c

[Bassmatt]

Same boat for me, get the interviews but not the job, so cant help really.
Good Luck!

[nzspokes]

Cover letter is everything. if its rubbish we dont look at the CV.

[mossy1200]

What kind of work are you after?

[blue rider]

If you have send an online application

Follow up with a phone call. Don't wait.

if you have time, do cold calls directly to the business and drop CV etc off. Shake the tree...

may the force be with you, mazeltov, good luck etc etc etc

[martybabe]

Same as the others said mate, go and hand your CV in in person and ask them to keep it on file if there are no vacancies. Try everywhere you fancy working even if they're not advertising. It worked for me, good luck.

[MSTRS]

Cover letter is everything. if its rubbish we dont look at the CV.

Here's an example of the sort of letter I write...if you are in the recruitment industry, so to speak, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Re the vacancy for Store, Despatch, Receiver as advertised on TradeMe

Your advertised position immediately stood out as being one I would enjoy, where my skills and preferences would be very well suited and be an asset to your business.

Currently self-employed as a signwriter, but with this industry severely affected by the recession, I have been working at ------. My role there is mainly in the despatch/store area, where I am tasked with preparing product for delivery and receipting inwards goods. It is a busy role when their production is in full swing, but unfortunately I cannot rely on that being the case and the position is only temporary/on call. Hence I am looking for something of a more permanent nature.

Happiest working in sole charge positions with a mix of elements, I have extensive experience in a variety of admin roles, where top communication, time management, accuracy, maths and spelling all contribute to my success. I consider myself a team player, enjoy interaction between co-workers and believe in fostering good working relationships between all parties. Efficient and highly organised, I am analytical, logical and methodical, and believe I have excellent Stores control and In/Outwards Goods skills. I know that I quickly earned the respect of the permanent staff and my work area at ----- looks and runs better than when I started there.

I do prefer a Monday to Friday role, but I am flexible over working hours on a daily basis. I am physically capable, have no health issues and possess a clean, full driver’s licence in classes 1 and 6.

My CV contains more information on how my skills and experience in a range of workplace situations may be suited to this role, along with full contact details.

[scissorhands]

I think there is room for a business selling bumper stickers on TM or at the markets

have a range of funny 1 liners like:

'my last ride was a horse' or ' your mum is really beautiful' or 'I love my country but fear my government' or whatever

clients can write their own bumper stickers....

Australia too, as postal costs of a bumper sticker in an envelope should be only $2

Your work could be on cars everywhere, your hourly rate very high, and you could even be an employer, if it takes off, as it may??

Whatever happened to bumper stickers?

[MSTRS]

Whatever happened to bumper stickers?

Same place a shitload of stuff I used to do. No-one sticks shit on their cars anymore.

[davereid]

You should easily get to interview, you write well and are a clear thinker, and its obvious you want a job.

But the reality is that its who you know, not what you know in a depressed job market.


Network widely, and good luck, sadly the CV and good letter will never get you a job interview ahead of the receptionists cousin.

[Motu]

Same here - qualifications and experience far beyond what they require, I have got close a few times apparently, but often not even a reply. At 58, I'm almost unemployable it appears. After a lifetime of walking into any job I wanted, often without even an interview, it really feels like I'm on the scrapheap.

[DEATH_INC.]

I've read a few cv's over the years (we've employed a few people....) and to be honest that letter is boring.
Be more straight to the point.
I don't care how happy the job makes ya, I just wanna know what you can do for me.
A quick one line note, and a few quick points about what you can do that is relevant to the job I'm offering.
That's it, there's a million other cv's to get through.....

That's how I look at them anyhoo....

[sinfull]

agree with him ^^^^^

[MSTRS]

I've read a few cv's over the years (we've employed a few people....) and to be honest that letter is boring.
Be more straight to the point.
I don't care how happy the job makes ya, I just wanna know what you can do for me.
A quick one line note, and a few quick points about what you can do that is relevant to the job I'm offering.
That's it, there's a million other cv's to get through.....

That's how I look at them anyhoo....

So you prefer short and to the point?

Something like "Ooooh I've done that before. It was a doodle and I was the best worker they ever had. I'll start Monday." ??

[p.dath]

Here's an example of the sort of letter I write...if you are in the recruitment industry, so to speak, your thoughts would be appreciated.

First, pretend your the person getting at least 100 applications. Don't waste time saying things that are not important. Say why you are the right person for the job. Your letter has to do nothing else than get you a call back. Then you complete the sale process.

The letter of introduction you supply looks good to me. Sounds like there might be a lot of competition for that kind of job in your local area.

[Scuba_Steve]

So you prefer short and to the point?

Something like "Ooooh I've done that before. It was a doodle and I was the best worker they ever had. I'll start Monday." ??

Sweet your've got the job! you'll start the Monday after I think of what that job is & create it. That gets 2 of us employed....

It sucks not being able to find a job, it's good knowing your not the only one

[Usarka]

I'm overly critical with application letters and CV's (I bin any CV or letter with a spelling mistake) so take this with a grain of salt and as one mans view only, but the following:


Currently self-employed as a signwriter, but with this industry severely affected by the recession, I have been working at ------.

says to me "I have a real job/trade and your one is only of interest until the market picks up again".

[Virago]

I also agree with the pre-emptive personal approach - within reason. A brief visit to the business to meet the manager or personnel officer (to drop off your application) is a great move. If this isn't possible, a phone call isn't a silly idea.

Do a little homework before you go, perhaps a little google searching - the business size, market position, mission statements, etc - it may give you the opportunity to show genuine interest and knowledge.

Then leave it at that - harrassment generates irritation, which tends to cloud opinion.

If you're lucky enough to get an interview, do even more homework. Go along with a wide variety of questions which demonstrate knowledge and genuine interest. Many of these will be covered during the interview process, but it's good to have something else up your sleeve for discussion. There's nothing more telling than that moment towards the end of the interview when you're asked if you have any questions, than an embarrassed silence followed by a "No, don't think so.". It immediately suggests a blind and disinterested job application.

If you want to completely destroy any chance of an interview, get your mother or wife to make a pre-emptive call, write the application letter on your behalf, and make the follow-up phone call. Yes, I've had those recently...

[flyingcrocodile46]

I've been looking and applying for jobs for over a year now. Have had a few interviews, but no luck.
I have it on good authority that there is nothing wrong, and plenty right, with my app. letters, so I am wondering what I can do to increase my chances of an interview, at the very least.
I have some on the go atm, and have had the 'Your application has been received...' emails.
Should I follow up with a phone call or wait until they contact me?
Anything else I can try?

If you are providing referees or even name of contacts at previous places of employment you could try removing them.

Prospective employers and more particularly employment consultants will often contact previous employers (and may even ask a coworker if the boss isn't there) for a bit of feedback. If you are half as bolshy in RL as you are here, you will likely be getting some unfavorable verbal appraisals.

I find that applying for jobs that don't yet exist is the best way of getting into a face to face meeting in which you have an opportunity of creating a breathtakingly awesome impression of mega enthusiasm. Of course that only works if you are awesome at what you do and when the employer has the capacity to take on someone when they may not necessarily be needing someone.

I'd say good luck, but from where I sit you are an arsehole and don't deserve it. Your attitude is the best tool you have in life. Change it and make it work for you.

[mashman]

find out where they live before you approach them for a job.

Can you "retrain" in something that's current and pertinent to the job, or at least feign that you have? You only need to talk the talk, you don't really need to know anything (sometimes)

[MSTRS]

find out where they live before you approach them for a job.

Is there a (legal) use for that sort of info?


... or at least feign that you have? You only need to talk the talk, you don't really need to know anything (sometimes)
I shudder to think of all the people out with jobs who got them on the basis of bullshit. I seem to come across an awful lot of absolutely incompetent drongos in jobs I'd like, and could do with my eyes closed, except they've got'em.

[scissorhands]

Try being autistic in the workplace, its a whole new way of viewing the world...

[mashman]

Is there a (legal) use for that sort of info?


I shudder to think of all the people out with jobs who got them on the basis of bullshit. I seem to come across an awful lot of absolutely incompetent drongos in jobs I'd like, and could do with my eyes closed, except they've got'em.

Mmmmmmm, I see, you want to earn your way into the job, how 70's

Shows it works eh :facepalm:

[SMOKEU]

Buy an ounce of skunk and some tin foil.

[AllanB]

I'd not mention self employed in the covering letter.

In my previous experience looking over CV's and interviewing people the 'self employed' looking for jobs either could not work well with others, thought they knew how to run everything or were a flight risk. Harsh as it sounds we had little luck with the self employed and tended to ditch their CV's.


Having said that when you get to the interview stage I'd be inclined to state you are looking to get out of self employment as it consumes all your weekend and is affecting your family. Of course you are more than happy to put in extra time at their job when required :-)

[Tigadee]

Don't turn up on your bike wearing full (esp. black) leathers. Automatic gang affiliation in their eyes...:pinch:

Agree that the term self-employed be used sparingly, unless "self-employed millionaire" is an accurate description of you.

[mossy1200]

Don't turn up ony bike wearing full (esp. black) leathers. Automatic gang affiliation in their eyes...:pinch:

Agree that the term self-employed be used sparingly, unless "self-employed millionaire" is an accurate description of you.

I did.Full leathers with crap cv.I never had to send a cover letter I just called and said I heard that you needed another electrician based on what I had heard at a wholesaler.great job.Im glad I made the effort.

BUT the thing I did have was a skill and experience thats hard to find with what they required.

You need to have something better than the rest to offer.Ask your friends what makes you cool to be around.Offer less info but include the thing that makes you stand out.

[AD345]

I've been hiring people for stores/warehousing work over the last several months (still am actually) and it's a pity you are not in Auckland.

However, if I didn't know it was you (the little I know of you as MSTRS on KB) that cover letter would not have got you to an interview.

Too personal and too off topic.

If you are applying for a specific role your cover letter and CV should only be about the attributes you have that you can bring to that role. I'm not interested in your previous work on other fields - at least not at the initial cull stage.

Glean as much information as you can about the role on offer and make the cover letter short(ish) and directly to the point of the job. Don't put in any limitations (can only work x days or Y hours - sort that out at the interview process).

As previously stated you are one of a lot of applicants and there is, of necessity, sweeping decisions made to cull applications down to the few worth seeing.

Cover letter to the point and offering the best possible reasons why you fit the role

CV needs to be briefly descriptive covering work history with highlights of relevant roles and experiences and qualifications

DO NOT HAVE UNEXPLAINED GAPS IN YOUR CV

Then it's down to luck, timing and you.

[SMOKEU]

DO NOT HAVE UNEXPLAINED GAPS IN YOUR CV



That sort of the problem I have with my CV. More like big gaping holes to be exact.

[AD345]

That sort of the problem I have with my CV. More like big gaping holes to be exact.

It's a worry, my brother has the same thing

At that point you really need networks to get you across the threshold

[MSTRS]

I've been hiring people for stores/warehousing work over the last several months (still am actually) and it's a pity you are not in Auckland.

However, if I didn't know it was you (the little I know of you as MSTRS on KB) that cover letter would not have got you to an interview.

Too personal and too off topic.

If you are applying for a specific role your cover letter and CV should only be about the attributes you have that you can bring to that role. I'm not interested in your previous work on other fields - at least not at the initial cull stage.

Glean as much information as you can about the role on offer and make the cover letter short(ish) and directly to the point of the job. Don't put in any limitations (can only work x days or Y hours - sort that out at the interview process).

As previously stated you are one of a lot of applicants and there is, of necessity, sweeping decisions made to cull applications down to the few worth seeing.

Cover letter to the point and offering the best possible reasons why you fit the role

CV needs to be briefly descriptive covering work history with highlights of relevant roles and experiences and qualifications

DO NOT HAVE UNEXPLAINED GAPS IN YOUR CV

Then it's down to luck, timing and you.
Good stuff, thank you.
But if a previous poster is to be believed, then I have a near-20 year gap in my CV...

[AD345]

Good stuff, thank you.
But if a previous poster is to be believed, then I have a near-20 year gap in my CV...

nah - self employment is not a gap

Just make sure you highlights the bits of it that are relevant to the job you are applying for.

E.g. Self employed as a painter - not relevant to a stores role - BUT managing your inventory, purchasing decisions, stock rotation, logistics of getting gear and self to right place at right time....etc etc. All relevant to the warehousing/distribution/logistics fields

Hit the high notes

[Zamiam]

I'd not mention self employed in the covering letter.

In my previous experience looking over CV's and interviewing people the 'self employed' looking for jobs either could not work well with others, thought they knew how to run everything or were a flight risk. Harsh as it sounds we had little luck with the self employed and tended to ditch their CV's.


Having said that when you get to the interview stage I'd be inclined to state you are looking to get out of self employment as it consumes all your weekend and is affecting your family. Of course you are more than happy to put in extra time at their job when required :-)

As someone who has employed a number of people over the years I agree with this. Self employed, and I am, rings alarm bells and your reason for getting out would make me think you'll go back when things get better. When you're employing you tend to get a shit load of applicants and to be honest it comes down to really small things when you're trying to get down to a maximum of six to talk to. Your letter would almost certainly end up inte "thanks but no thanks" pile. A concise, well written and relevant letter would give you more chance of getting to the other pile.

Good luck and good on your for seeking advice.

[Ocean1]

I'm overly critical with application letters and CV's (I bin any CV or letter with a spelling mistake) so take this with a grain of salt and as one mans view only, but the following:



says to me "I have a real job/trade and your one is only of interest until the market picks up again".


I'd not mention self employed in the covering letter.

In my previous experience looking over CV's and interviewing people the 'self employed' looking for jobs either could not work well with others, thought they knew how to run everything or were a flight risk. Harsh as it sounds we had little luck with the self employed and tended to ditch their CV's.

Yep, I'm afraid that's a fairly common HR view of self employed people. Accurate too.



I've been hiring people for stores/warehousing work over the last several months (still am actually) and it's a pity you are not in Auckland.

However, if I didn't know it was you (the little I know of you as MSTRS on KB) that cover letter would not have got you to an interview.

Too personal and too off topic.

If you are applying for a specific role your cover letter and CV should only be about the attributes you have that you can bring to that role. I'm not interested in your previous work on other fields - at least not at the initial cull stage.

Glean as much information as you can about the role on offer and make the cover letter short(ish) and directly to the point of the job. Don't put in any limitations (can only work x days or Y hours - sort that out at the interview process).

As previously stated you are one of a lot of applicants and there is, of necessity, sweeping decisions made to cull applications down to the few worth seeing.

Cover letter to the point and offering the best possible reasons why you fit the role

CV needs to be briefly descriptive covering work history with highlights of relevant roles and experiences and qualifications

DO NOT HAVE UNEXPLAINED GAPS IN YOUR CV

Then it's down to luck, timing and you.

Think this is on the money. Also a good idea to get constructive criticism of your letter and CV, initially from friends, (because as well as you may write you eventually lose focus, being so close to the documents) but if possible from either HR professionals or, even better specific industry contacts. AD345 shows how valuable such advice is in sharpening targeting.

Like others seem to have found I've never had a job offer result from a normal agency referal, either someone within the company recommended me or someone who knew both drew the link.

Luck, dude. It can be hard, let's know how it's going, eh?

[MSTRS]

Well - that was interesting...
I apply for any job that may suit and use Seek, TardMe, newspaper, personal call, etc to find/make that contact.
Seek and TardMe send a confirmation email that the application has been received/forwarded/whatever.
Some I have not heard a thing more. Not even a no thanks. Did they even get my application? So I have taken to ALSO sending to an email addy, if there's one in the ad. That's 2 chances of being seen, right? Wrong!
Phoned one that closes tomorrow, by way of a follow up and to prove motivation etc. I have the TardMe receipt, but this employer does not have me in the pile of 90 applicants. Not from the TardMe ad or from the direct email.
So I get the 'personal' email of the contact person that I was speaking to, and re-sent my details.
Exchange goes like this

Me...
As discussed, please find my application attached.

Them...
Thank you for your application. I can confirm that I have received your application this time and will be in touch within 7 working days of the applications closing date.

Me...
Thank you and know that this is a relief. I am convinced that I have missed other opportunities due to emails not being received.
Your position is one which speaks to my skills and aspirations in a job, and I am VERY keen to secure employment in this role.

At the very least I've been noticed. Maybe this time I will get a fair shot at the job?

[Scuba_Steve]

Well - that was interesting...
I apply for any job that may suit and use Seek, TardMe, newspaper, personal call, etc to find/make that contact.
Seek and TardMe send a confirmation email that the application has been received/forwarded/whatever.
Some I have not heard a thing more. Not even a no thanks. Did they even get my application? So I have taken to ALSO sending to an email addy, if there's one in the ad. That's 2 chances of being seen, right? Wrong!
Phoned one that closes tomorrow, by way of a follow up and to prove motivation etc. I have the TardMe receipt, but this employer does not have me in the pile of 90 applicants. Not from the TardMe ad or from the direct email.
So I get the 'personal' email of the contact person that I was speaking to, and re-sent my details.
Exchange goes like this

At the very least I've been noticed. Maybe this time I will get a fair shot at the job?

Wonder if your've been getting parsed through those stupid fucking HR CV programs. Those things reject many a good applicant while letting through many a useless one

[MSTRS]

Something else too...
Should the letter and the CV both be attachments? Or should the letter form the body of the email and the CV attached?
And is it preferable to use Word or PDF?

[5150]

I've been looking and applying for jobs for over a year now. Have had a few interviews, but no luck.
I have it on good authority that there is nothing wrong, and plenty right, with my app. letters, so I am wondering what I can do to increase my chances of an interview, at the very least.
I have some on the go atm, and have had the 'Your application has been received...' emails.
Should I follow up with a phone call or wait until they contact me?
Anything else I can try?

So standing on street corners is not proving too lucrative these days? :whistle:

[MSTRS]

It's the fishnets...they play havoc with my varicose veins. But the industry is clear that they must be worn or find another job.

[MisterD]

Something else too...
Should the letter and the CV both be attachments? Or should the letter form the body of the email and the CV attached?
And is it preferable to use Word or PDF?

I've always done the cover letter as the body of the email and attached the CV and I don't think word v pdf makes any difference, I'd doubt whether many home PC's have the ability to create a pdf.

All I'd add to the amazing amount of useful information already provided is:

1) Too many people have a CV. You should look to tailor your CV to the position being applied for.

2) The job of the cover letter is to get your CV read, the job of the CV is to get you the interview and the interview gets you the job.

[arkeo]

[...] Too personal and too off topic. [...] CV needs to be briefly descriptive covering work history with highlights of relevant roles and experiences and qualifications [...] DO NOT HAVE UNEXPLAINED GAPS IN YOUR CV

I totally agree... As far as I can tell, few lines about personal interests can be timely at the end of the CV but only in case they had something to do with the job.

A.

[cowboyz]

tbh, I have no idea. I was unemployed for 2 years. I hounded the temp agencies doors daily (and by hounded.. I mean I showed up every morning and sat there with a coffee telling them to assign me somewhere to work.) It worked for me but only because the recruitment guy thought it bold and liked that. If he was different.. it would have been putting me to the bottom of the list. I have worked in my company for a couple of years now after they hired me after a year of temping. its just blind luck. In the time I have been there I have seen plenty of good workers let go over those that have friends or family working for the company. You have to ask yourself... Are you willing to do anything? The 9-5 jobs are gone now. I work 9pm to 6am at the moment and that can change in an instant. I realised early on that saying the 'right' things (coincidently is usually the complete opposite of what I am thinking) will get you further. People want to feel important and they want to hire people who make them feel important. It makes no difference if you can do the job well or not. What makes the difference is if you can make your boss look like he knows what hes doing.

[Stirts]

If you are providing referees or even name of contacts at previous places of employment you could try removing them.

Or at least do a "mystery check" on any of the verbal reference contacts you have provided in your CV. I phoned a previous employer, impersonating a Recruitment Officer, asking them questions about the "candidate" - turns out this fuck-knuckle (who actually also provided a very glowing written reference) was giving very destructive feedback for this person, thus explaining why he wasn't getting the jobs he could do with his eyes shut.


My opinion for writing Cover Letters - match the language/terminology they use in the Advert and Position Description. Reading the PD and Advert can give you the main attributes/skills they are looking for, so focus solely on those.

i.e

Enclosed is my CV to support my application. In it you will see that I would bring some important skills including:
• Advanced computer literacy.
• Staff supervision and training skills.
• Excellent communication skills.
• Project co-ordination and organisation skills.
• High level of accuracy.
• Strong problem solving ability.

Then write a very short, but to the point script on how you applied those skills/attributes.

Same with CV...
Very short, to the point, but I have found that adding "Acheivements" at the bottom of each role that I have listed. It certainly gains attention if I get an interview. And it generally addresses a standard interview question anyway.

[MSTRS]

References are problematic insofaras I can't list many.
My working relationship with an employer is limited to one in recent times, and clients - well - I'm uncomfortable about the idea of them knowing I'm planning to chuck it in.
Friends are good towards character and then only with a pinch of salt, because they have a bias in the matter.

It's fecking depressing, I tells ye...

[Stirts]

References are problematic insofaras I can't list many.
My working relationship with an employer is limited to one in recent times, and clients - well - I'm uncomfortable about the idea of them knowing I'm planning to chuck it in.
Friends are good towards character and then only with a pinch of salt, because they have a bias in the matter.

It's fecking depressing, I tells ye...

What about any past clients? Ones that no longer require your services ... Go through your "client database" surely there must be a couple.

[MSTRS]

Prolly is - good suggestion.

[Maha]

What about any past clients? Ones that no longer require your services ... Go through your "client database" surely there must be a couple.

You make him sound like a man-whore..or worse...a swinger....:corn:

[jasonu]

Here's an example of the sort of letter I write...if you are in the recruitment industry, so to speak, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Looks way too wordy to me. It looks more like a story or speech and most HR people won't be bothered to read it. Imagine if a potential employer gets say 100 CV's to look at for a position listing. They will likely be glanceing over them looking for something that stands out immediately and will weed out the few that do this and ditch the rest.

Below is an example of a simple resume template I found in my MS Works. It is simple, to the point and quickly shows your skills and quals.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

[Your Name]
[Street Address, Town, Country Postal Code] [Phone number] [E-mail address]


Objective [Describe your career goal or ideal job.]

Experience [Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


[Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


[Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


[Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


Education [School Name], [Town, County]
[Dates of attendance]
[Degree obtained]
[Special award/accomplishment]

Interests [Briefly list interests that may pertain to the type of the job you want.]

References References are available on request.




.

[Voltaire]

I was self employed for 5 years and it teaches you a lot, anyone who dismisses an applicant with that experience is a bit short sighted. I now work for a US firm and I hired a suit for the interview.....got the job....went out and bought a suit....two years later never yet worn it....
What probably worked in my favour was being interviewed by the two guys I was going to work with and not some HR cretin with a degree.
Luck and fitting in plays a big part too. Good luck with your search.

[jim.cox]

and not some HR cretin with a degree.


Every time I see the term "HR" I think "Human Remains"

[flyingcrocodile46]

So I get the 'personal' email of the contact person that I was speaking to, and re-sent my details.
Exchange goes like this


Me...
Thank you and know that this is a relief. I am convinced that I have missed other opportunities due to emails not being received.
Your position is one which speaks to my skills and aspirations in a job, and I am VERY keen to secure employment in this role.

At the very least I've been noticed. Maybe this time I will get a fair shot at the job?

I think the last paragraph was unnecessary, makes you come across as worryingly needy and VERY desperate. I rather imagine that it alone would be a bin trigger. Otherwise good initiative.

As per my last post, my "requested" opinion and honest appraisal is given in good faith. Of course you and your doris can cry me some neg rep again if that's what brings you comfort. I have big shoulders.

[The Lone Rider]

I used to work in professional audio industry. I've met Hammond Peak, who won an Oscar for his work in Lord Of The Rings. He showed me his CV - it's one page.

He was adamant that if you can't fit it on one page, with a comfortable to read font size, then you have a lot on it that you don't need. His explanation is employers get thousands of applications sometimes. They don't read them all, they flip through them. Thus 1 page is enough, as long as it's to the point.

[Virago]

References are problematic insofaras I can't list many.
My working relationship with an employer is limited to one in recent times, and clients - well - I'm uncomfortable about the idea of them knowing I'm planning to chuck it in.
Friends are good towards character and then only with a pinch of salt, because they have a bias in the matter.

It's fecking depressing, I tells ye...

Any complementary-type business contacts? People you refer work to, and who refer work to you?

I do a great deal of networking within my own field, which results in some useful relationships. If you have any such relationships, their independent opinion may carry some weight.

[AllanB]

I used to work in professional audio industry. I've met Hammond Peak, who won an Oscar for his work in Lord Of The Rings. He showed me his CV - it's one page.

He was adamant that if you can't fit it on one page, with a comfortable to read font size, then you have a lot on it that you don't need. His explanation is employers get thousands of applications sometimes. They don't read them all, they flip through them. Thus 1 page is enough, as long as it's to the point.


Classic. One page - maybe a bit lean. But it is a valid point as I recall dumping many 'phone book' CV's.

[caspernz]

All the various opinions and bits of advice offered all make sense in one way or another. Here's my take on the whole 'getting another job' thing.

"It's not always what you know, but who you know" that makes the difference.

Now I can only speak of myself, have been in the workforce for about 25 years and applied formally for only a couple of jobs. For the most part it's been a combination of 'right time, right place' and lots of networking. In the transport industry I'd go as far as to suggest that by the time a job is advertised on any public media, the employer would have exhausted his contacts who may know of someone suitable that's interested. Now if you're a halfway decent employer or employee...guess what? You'll find each other without any CV, cover letter, email or heaven forbid, an HR cretin.

So by all means use the advice given by previous posters, but don't forget it's about you making it known in a non-offensive manner to as many folks as possible that you're looking for a certain type of work. Until then, take any kind of work you can get. Easy to say, hard to achieve in the current economic climate I accept.

Good luck and stay positive. :2thumbsup

[MSTRS]

Save us from HR drones....
Yet another nicely worded and oh-so-encouraging "Fuck off"

Thank you for your application for the above role and for your interest in working for -----. We received 110 applications for this position and the calibre of applications was very high which made shortlisting difficult. We regret to inform you that your application has been unsuccessful in this instance.Thank you for your interest in this position and the time you have taken in our recruitment process.
I wish you all the best with your job search.

Responded...

So you didn't like the way I wrote my application letter?
Would you prefer if I scribbled out a few buzzwords instead of some actual substance?
There is absolutely nothing about the job that I haven't done before and can't do (except the front-end loader) and do to the highest standards.
I would ask that you reconsider

[avgas]

If dealing with recruitment agencies, copy and paste the Job Description into your CV.
The meta filters will pick you up and short list you.
When they give you a call - ask if they have read your CV.

Both of you will have a good laugh and then start talking about the job at hand (that she would have never called you for if you BS your way in).

Worked for me twice now. Might not get you a job - but will at least keep you entertained. Recruitment industry is shot to hell here.

If you want to take a shot at recruiters (and their arrogance) - I find this website is a good place to vent http://riceconsulting.co.nz/thewhiteboard/the-cv-is-dead/

[flyingcrocodile46]

Responded...

So you didn't like the way I wrote my application letter?
Would you prefer if I scribbled out a few buzzwords instead of some actual substance?
There is absolutely nothing about the job that I haven't done before and can't do (except the front-end loader) and do to the highest standards.
I would ask that you reconsider



.


You should count yourself lucky that you got any reply. It demonstrates that the consultant was at least polite and rewards effort with effort. Many won't even send out a message.

Your unnecessary reply will likely ensure that you are filtered out of future applications with that consultant.:yes:

Perhaps you should consider some training on how to communicate with and get along with people to get the best out of your exchanges. Dale Carnegie's 'How to win friends and influence people' is an old book now but the truths are still true and it's probably the most highly regarded advice of its type available. Not being a smart arse, it seems like you could use it.

A brief overview of the book can be seen here
http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/carnegie/win-friends.html

This looks like a free copy that you could download or print.
http://pathologydocs.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people.pdf
It really does provide excellent advice.

[MSTRS]

I can see that you are trying to help, FC, and I thank you for that.
However, this was not a consultant, but the sole personnel person (HR) at a single company. I have had phone conversations with the woman as well. A year of frustration has soured my spleen, my self-respect is suffering fatal bruises and I dumped it where it belonged...it made no difference job-wise, but I felt better. Moving on...
Time to try the keyword, one-liner, feed their own words back at them bullshit, since substance counts for nil.

[Pussy]

Dale Carnegie's 'How to win friends and influence people' is an old book now but the truths are still true and it's probably the most highly regarded advice of its type available. Not being a smart arse, it seems like you could use it.



I try not to say..."I wanna come and work for you cunts" at an interview.

ALTHOUGH... true story... Joe Ridley from McKenzie and Ridley, a boilermaking firm in Edgecumbe, told me a story about a bloke who applied for a job with them a few years ago.
The applicant proudly stated that he was clean living and of sober habits etc etc.
Joe said "Well you might as well fuck off right now, then. You'll never fit in with the bunch of cunts I have got working for me..."

[Scuba_Steve]

You should count yourself lucky that you got any reply. It demonstrates that the consultant was at least polite and rewards effort with effort. Many won't even send out a message.


Usually those messages come from those stupid fucking cv processing programs used by HR firms, no human interaction required. I've had a few, if you don't get a rejection THATS when your've reached a human (generalization)

[nzspokes]

I know a lady thats a very high level HR manager for a multinational. She has some funny stories of CVs and people having big gaps in them. Normally turns out they spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure. And men to scared to come inside for interviews so she had to talk to them in the carpark. Doubt they got the position.....

[The Singing Chef]

What I have done in the past and going to do now, is to call up with a friendly demeanour and basically set up an interview with them.

You talk to them quickly about the job to confirm they are still looking for someone, be very friendly and have an up beat voice (Nothing worse than talking to somebody that sounds like they just had to sit through 10 minutes of a Justin Bieber song.)

Tell them that you are interested about the position and you would like to meet up with them for a coffee, then say how does "insert day" work for you? If they say not that day then either ask which day or sort out another day in which you can meet up.
Now if you have good people skills and can bullshit your way into anything, then by that stage, you will have the job.

That's how it works for me any way, then my CV speaks for itself.

[avgas]

I know a lady thats a very high level HR manager for a multinational. She has some funny stories of CVs and people having big gaps in them. Normally turns out they spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure. And men to scared to come inside for interviews so she had to talk to them in the carpark. Doubt they got the position.....
Any chance you can have a chat to her about possibly passing on contact details to a few on here looking for work?

As mentioned earlier many times its who you know.

I am interested, and I imagine MSTRS is also. It you could PM us her details would be most appreciated.

Cheers
Stew

[MSTRS]

Not too many multinationals in Napier, but certainly interested if there is anything available.

[Maha]

MacDonalds is a Multinational innit?..:corn:
And they have a carpark.

[MSTRS]

MacDonalds is a Multinational innit?..:corn:
And they have a carpark.

You'll keep...

[avgas]

MacDonalds is a Multinational innit?..:corn:
And they have a carpark.
No McD's is a global. There is a difference :bash:

:shifty:

:laugh:

[Maha]

You'll keep...


No McD's is a global. There is a difference :bash:

:shifty:

:laugh:

No wonder I missed out on a job as a youngster, ok I lied about my age at the time but, during the interview at Avis, I was asked if ''I was self motivated''?
I said ''Yes, I have a Car''....:facepalm:
Didn't get the job...:confused:

[avgas]

No wonder I missed out on a job as a youngster, ok I lied about my age at the time but, during the interview at Avis, I was asked if ''I was self motivated''?
I said ''Yes, I have a Car''....:facepalm:
Didn't get the job...:confused:
Then I will let you in on a hint. The answer to "What is your most perfect role?", "What are your aspirations?" or "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?"
is NOT

"In your seat interviewing my replacement"

I didn't get that job either.

[jasonu]

Looks way too wordy to me. It looks more like a story or speech and most HR people won't be bothered to read it. Imagine if a potential employer gets say 100 CV's to look at for a position listing. They will likely be glanceing over them looking for something that stands out immediately and will weed out the few that do this and ditch the rest.

Below is an example of a simple resume template I found in my MS Works. It is simple, to the point and quickly shows your skills and quals.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

[Your Name]
[Street Address, Town, Country Postal Code] [Phone number] [E-mail address]


Objective [Describe your career goal or ideal job.]

Experience [Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


[Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


[Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


[Job Title]
[Dates of employment] [Company Name], [Town, County]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]
[Job responsibility/achievement]


Education [School Name], [Town, County]
[Dates of attendance]
[Degree obtained]
[Special award/accomplishment]

Interests [Briefly list interests that may pertain to the type of the job you want.]

References References are available on request.




.

I am going to an interview in a couple of days and will be presenting my resume using the above format.

[avgas]

I am going to an interview in a couple of days and will be presenting my resume using the above format.
Lots of US employers are using Linkedin these days - as its easier to get in contact with your previous employers.

[jasonu]

as its easier to get in contact with your previous employers.

That may or may not be a good thing...
Anyway it is already in his in box so now it is up to my in person interview to hopefully convince him his company couldn't possible survive without me.

[The Singing Chef]

Sweet, should be hearing back soon from an interested restaurant owner about a chef's position, they hadn't advertised at all and I was there having drinks and some platters with mates, bonus is, is that it is just a short walk up the road from me.

God damn I need to get working again, I feel the laziness creeping up now, the T.V series beckon and tubs of ice cream lay in wait.

I think I am going mad, and it's only been 2 weeks!

[nzspokes]

Not too many multinationals in Napier, but certainly interested if there is anything available.

Sorry they are Auck based.

[jonbuoy]

Problem is all CV´s end up looking the same, with the same buzzwords - hardworking, problem solving, asset to the company, hobbies are cycling, swimming, travel....... blah blah. Hard to make it stand out, could always try sprinkling a bit of light humour in, probably at least get you an interview - got nothing to loose if your being knocked back on a regular basis. Cold calling can´t hurt, I got my first apprentiship that way.

[Headbanger]

Problem is all CV´s end up looking the same, with the same buzzwords - hardworking, problem solving, asset to the company, hobbies are cycling, swimming, travel....... blah blah. .

Mine has none of those buzzwords:blink:

[Headbanger]

Anyhow, Its a cunt of a road to travel on, It took me a year and a half to get back to work, Though my body is shot to hell from misuse which meant just about everything I used to do for coin I can't sustain for long enough to get a paycheck.

HR people are cunts, fuck em, Never have I been forced to have such stupid conversations with morons and then have to jump through their retarded hoops.

Funny enough after months and months of rejection I managed to get a start in my nominated field and its gone from strength to strength, The positive feedback from all quarters has been such that yet again my ego went mad and I got carried away.

[MSTRS]

Problem is all CV´s end up looking the same...could always try sprinkling a bit of light humour in, probably at least get you an interview -

I've tried Loves quiet nights at home, a good movie, walks on the beach, ns, sd.
Not a sausage...

[wingnutt]

Here's an example of the sort of letter I write...if you are in the recruitment industry, so to speak, your thoughts would be appreciated.

gidday,

I was reading an article the other day on comments from managers concerning the reading of CVs and they
are handling a huge amount of applications these days.

when working through the CVs anything thats too comprehensive, and hard to read they discard immediately, as there is no the time to read large CVs.

I used to recruit many years ago now, and I agree, while your letter is great in explaining your experience, if I may so,
its too long, and hard to read, shorten it up and just state the facts with out any floweryness.

do a search on google about CVs and there is a host of information about them

personal visits to firms is the way to go, good luck to you.

[jonbuoy]

I've tried Loves quiet nights at home, a good movie, walks on the beach, ns, sd.
Not a sausage...

We average three or four CV´s a day (cold calling just looking for work CV´s) dropped into us, 90% look the same and read the same only the qualifications and work experience changes. Can´t hurt to try something new to make it stand out.