Moto3 already faster than 125s

[Cleve]

The third day of the Jerez Official Test concluded the Moto3 preseason with a brilliant performance from Maverick Viñales, who was just nine thousandths of a second off the unofficial circuit record for a lower cylinder category bike at the track -set by Marc Márquez two years ago- and quicker than last year's pole.

[CHOPPA]

The third day of the Jerez Official Test concluded the Moto3 preseason with a brilliant performance from Maverick Viñales, who was just nine thousandths of a second off the unofficial circuit record for a lower cylinder category bike at the track -set by Marc Márquez two years ago- and quicker than last year's pole.

Thats slower! :nya: haha

But its only a matter of time! The other classes will be stoked they dont have to listen to the 125s warming up now.... :shutup:

[codgyoleracer]

Geez, i hope they sound better in a group than they do on their own.....

[lostinflyz]

bugger that nonsense, moto2 bikes are now the same pace as late gen 500GP and early motogp 990 machines........and they don't have a strong desire to launch you at the sky every 10 seconds.... thats progress..

[puddytat]

The third day of the Jerez Official Test concluded the Moto3 preseason with a brilliant performance from Maverick Viñales, who was just nine thousandths of a second off the unofficial circuit record for a lower cylinder category bike at the track -set by Marc Márquez two years ago- and quicker than last year's pole.

Most excellent....:ride:

[Cleve]

Thats slower! :nya: haha

... than the "unofficial" lap time - but faster than the "official" pole time of last years 125's.

[eelracing]

10 years ago 250's were less than a second slower than 500's at Jerez.So the progress today (at Jerez)is a moot point...unless of course you want to argue that a manageable powered engine lets you go faster then you will get no arguement here.
Maverick is a talented kid and all this says is it's going to be a one horse race for the coming season,but one practise lap is nothing unless it's backed up consistantly.

Lets see the times at a high speed riders track like Phillip Island and see if you still want to argue 125 2t V's 250 4t lap times then.

[Crasherfromwayback]

bugger that nonsense, moto2 bikes are now the same pace as late gen 500GP and early motogp 990 machines........and they don't have a strong desire to launch you at the sky every 10 seconds.... thats progress..

Best race lap @ Phillip Island in 1999 on a 500 smoker was 1:32.743

Same place on a 990 diesel was 1:30.917

With a Moto 2 bike's best of 1:34.549 last year.

If that's progress...

[jasonu]

bugger that nonsense, moto2 bikes are now the same pace as late gen 500GP and early motogp 990 machines........and they don't have a strong desire to launch you at the sky every 10 seconds.... thats progress..

No, not progress. Just dull raceing.

[Ivan]

we have to look motox went 4 stroke road racing has its the future 125's are awsome but we cant judge a 1st season moto3 bike vs 30 odd years development 125s

[gatch]

Moto3 already boring me to sleep with it's terrible engine noise.

[BMWST?]

we have to look motox went 4 stroke road racing has its the future 125's are awsome but we cant judge a 1st season moto3 bike vs 30 odd years development 125s

of course the 4 strokes are starting from no where eh.....the 4 stroke has had much much more development the the 2 smoker

[Fast Eddie]

bring back 2 strokes..

125, 250 and 500..

[actungbaby]

10 years ago 250's were less than a second slower than 500's at Jerez.So the progress today (at Jerez)is a moot point...unless of course you want to argue that a manageable powered engine lets you go faster then you will get no arguement here.
Maverick is a talented kid and all this says is it's going to be a one horse race for the coming season,but one practise lap is nothing unless it's backed up consistantly.

Lets see the times at a high speed riders track like Phillip Island and see if you still want to argue 125 2t V's 250 4t lap times then.

well the man that headed the moto 3 machine said that was either 3 % or 7 % percent slower i forget he did give a number than the 2 strokes i meant aprila

so no there not faster , i doubt be possible to make them faster either honda chouldint manage it in 500cc class with nr 500

But hopfully be a sucess and already we got other brands going in , I thought be just one horse race, thats the trouble with moto 2

its boring all using the same engines bit like series team nz raced in four wheel racing where raced as countrys its tad boring
So i belive his opion

[actungbaby]

bring back 2 strokes..

125, 250 and 500..

I really think should left 125s as 2 strokes its cant make it cheaper to race and there where racing machines

jermey burguss said it best about moto 2 he wasint impressed there no factory devoplment id thought there would be intresting stuff

being made

and then go into production bikes later on of course maybe 5 years later

Like dircet injection for 2 strokes i think honda just be let to write the rule books becuse they dont make 125 2 strokes anymore

[actungbaby]

Best race lap @ Phillip Island in 1999 on a 500 smoker was 1:32.743

Same place on a 990 diesel was 1:30.917

With a Moto 2 bike's best of 1:34.549 last year.

If that's progress...

thats more like tryes and suspension but the riders seem prefer the moto gp bikes , in last years there been saying

the 500 lap times where not going big improvments in laps a 250cc machines where improving more

And they change the tracks year to year also surface corner changes those awfull chicanes and slow speed corners

boring to watch circuits least hamton downs looks exciting

[lostinflyz]

10 years ago 250's were less than a second slower than 500's at Jerez.So the progress today (at Jerez)is a moot point...unless of course you want to argue that a manageable powered engine lets you go faster then you will get no arguement here.
Maverick is a talented kid and all this says is it's going to be a one horse race for the coming season,but one practise lap is nothing unless it's backed up consistantly.

Lets see the times at a high speed riders track like Phillip Island and see if you still want to argue 125 2t V's 250 4t lap times then.

now they are a second faster, 20+kg heavier and probably with no more power............ At high speed track a 2 smoke will always win out. Take a twisty arsehole like sachsenring and its probably alot different but the track configuration now prohibits comparision.

and to the muppet who said boring races, did you ever see a moto2 race vs any 500gp race in 97-99ish???

[Kornholio]

bring back Georgie Pie..

..

sp..............

[Crasherfromwayback]

now they are a second faster, 20+kg heavier and probably with no more power............ At high speed track a 2 smoke will always win out. Take a twisty arsehole like sachsenring and its probably alot different but the track configuration now prohibits comparision.

and to the muppet who said boring races, did you ever see a moto2 race vs any 500gp race in 97-99ish???

Talking of muppets...you haven't been watching that closely have you? Sachsenring was THE last place where a 5 hundy actually gave a 990 a real go after Barros's inspired race at Assen. And just because they put 40 bikes on the grid with the same limited to 150hp honda engined pile of shit, doesn't mean it's always great racing. Have a read of what most people involved with GP say about it. They all lament the loss of REAL GP bikes. The 250's.

How many GP's have you been to over the last 20 odd years?

[jasonu]

and to the muppet who said boring races, did you ever see a moto2 race vs any 500gp race in 97-99ish???

Yes I have seen both and I stand by my comment. Moto2 is especially dull and in my opinion the dullness is cause by the same engine formula. It isn't a true 'prototype' class anymore.
As good as the Moto2 riders may be, you could get the same results by putting them all on GN250's

[Mental Trousers]

bring back Georgie Pie..

..

sp..............

Finally, something sensible and not wah things have changed and I nobody is listening to me.


EVERYTHING ends up being about money and there's no money in 2 strokes.

[carbonhed]

Yes I have seen both and I stand by my comment. Moto2 is especially dull and in my opinion the dullness is cause by the same engine formula. It isn't a true 'prototype' class anymore.
As good as the Moto2 riders may be, you could get the same results by putting them all on GN250's

Isn't the plan to ultimately open the engines up to other manufacturers?

Moto2 "boring"? Doesn't compute for me. There's a lot of great riders in there this year again. I'm really looking forward to it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

EVERYTHING ends up being about money and there's no money in 2 strokes.

I think there may well be in the not too distant future though mate.

[Mental Trousers]

I think there may well be in the not too distant future though mate.

The time for two strokes will come again. But for now we have to wait for everyone to get over the current 4 strokes are more environmentally friendly fad.

The big thing that counts against the 2 strokes at the moment is the fact they were unbelievably hard to ride so only a handful of extremely talented maniacs could get the most of them. Hell, half the MotoGP guys couldn't ride those 500cc monsters at more than 90% of the bikes capabilities. That's just plain wrong.

[Kornholio]

The time for two strokes will come again. But for now we have to wait for everyone to get over the current 4 strokes are more environmentally friendly fad.

The big thing that counts against the 2 strokes at the moment is the fact they were unbelievably hard to ride so only a handful of extremely talented maniacs could get the most of them. Hell, half the MotoGP guys couldn't ride those 500cc monsters at more than 90% of the bikes capabilities. That's just plain wrong.

I dread the day when I get passed on the road or track by an electric bike :shit:

[Mental Trousers]

Be time to hang up the reins then mate :blink:

[jasonu]

I dread the day when I get passed on the road or track by an electric bike :shit:

Getting passed by this bike shouldn't upset you too much...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akximCGuLm8&feature=related

[malcy25]

The time for two strokes will come again. But for now we have to wait for everyone to get over the current 4 strokes are more environmentally friendly fad.

The big thing that counts against the 2 strokes at the moment is the fact they were unbelievably hard to ride so only a handful of extremely talented maniacs could get the most of them. Hell, half the MotoGP guys couldn't ride those 500cc monsters at more than 90% of the bikes capabilities. That's just plain wrong.

Just an allusion. Go get one of the motogp bikes and turn off all the rider "aids" and see who pops up. Would be the same guys.....

[Mental Trousers]

Just an allusion. Go get one of the motogp bikes and turn off all the rider "aids" and see who pops up. Would be the same guys.....

It's not an illusion. Sure they've got lots of rider aids but 4 strokes have always been easier to ride. They don't have a power band and make tons of torque everywhere. Power delivery characteristics are much easier cos each cylinder fires every second revolution etc etc. A 4 stroke with the same peak power as a 2 stroke will always be easier to ride.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It's not an illusion. Sure they've got lots of rider aids but 4 strokes have always been easier to ride. They don't have a power band and make tons of torque everywhere. Power delivery characteristics are much easier cos each cylinder fires every second revolution etc etc. A 4 stroke with the same peak power as a 2 stroke will always be easier to ride.

Not when you're trying to get 250hp from an 800cc four staroke they ain't! They would've been near unridable without the electronic aids,

The thous would be far easier...as would a 500cc smoker. Just REAL hard to ride hard.

[NordieBoy]

I dread the day when I get passed on the road or track by an electric bike :shit:

More torque than breakfast tv.

[Mental Trousers]

Not when you're trying to get 250hp from an 800cc four staroke they ain't! They would've been near unridable without the electronic aids,

The thous would be far easier...as would a 500cc smoker. Just REAL hard to ride hard.

That's an extreme amount of horsepower for anything, but the equivalent 2 stroke putting out the same power is a 400cc time bomb with a really short fuse and ridiculously small power band. So it needs just as many electronic aids to keep the thing alive, broaden the power and make it rideable.

With larger engines you get a better spread of power, whether it's a 2 stroke or 4 stroke.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's an extreme amount of horsepower for anything, but the equivalent 2 stroke putting out the same power is a 400cc time bomb with a really short fuse and ridiculously small power band. So it needs just as many electronic aids to keep the thing alive, broaden the power and make it rideable.

With larger engines you get a better spread of power, whether it's a 2 stroke or 4 stroke.

Yeah doubt they'd ever be able to get 250hp from a 5 hundy smoker. Maybe a modern 750! Having ridden a Honda RS250 in anger...you'd be surprised how tractable they are.