You reap what you sow, or Karma?

[Edbear]

When people talk about Karma it is almost invariably referring to a bad person getting their comeuppance, either immediately or at a future time.

However it is also true in general life so that we all talk about personal responsibility and working hard to achieve our goals. At the same time we look at the lives of ourselves and of others and consider that if in a good place it is due to our hard work, diligence and learning but if in a bad place it is due to circumstances beyond our control. "It's not my fault."

How much of our success or failure is due to circumstance and how much is a result of reaping what we have sown? I believe that until we reach the age of understanding, adulthood or where we can make our own choices, we are products of circumstance but beyond that we can become whomever and whatever we wish to be. Some will be in a better state of circumstance than others but despite any disadvantages we can repair, recover and progress as we wish.

I think it would be interesting to see how everyone views their life and their current situation and to what extent they apportion their current state to circumstance or Karma.

I have no agenda in posting this beyond curiosity and learning about people.

[mashman]

I don't believe in Karma... I am a leaf on the wind unless I decide to be the wind.

[Maha]

I am what I am, and where I am today, because of my actions...Karma had nothing to do with it.

[Skiwi]

Unless you get off your ass and ride to the top of the mountain you dont ever get to see the view, conversely if you run with mongrels youre bound to get bit eventually.

In short IMHO it's a mixture, good and and bad shit happens all the time, whether your standing close enough to catch a whiff of it usually comes down to your choices leading up to that moment.

[tigertim20]

happiness is knowing that karma cant really get you.
you might not have a choice about what options you have, but you do get to choose which option you pick.
Two friends of mine argued this point once while on the piss.
one who disagreed asked,
'so youre telling me if you are tied to a chair, unable to move, and someones is pointing a loaded gun at your head, you have a choice as to whether you live or die?
the other lad replied 'no, Im saying you have a choice as to whether you close your eyes and die silently, or die scared and screaming, or looking the bastard in the eyes with contempt - you might not have great options, but you have options none the less'

Karma is BS - you are who, what and where you are because of the options you chose.

[Scuba_Steve]

to me reaping the sow & karma are effectively the same thing, just different words for it. Karma comes about because you have reaped what you sow.

[Zedder]

to me reaping the sow & karma are effectively the same thing, just different words for it. Karma comes about because you have reaped what you sow.

Or in other words, cause and effect.

[Edbear]

Karma is originally a Hindu belief but it has been Westernised and means similarly to reaping what you sow either for good or bad. If we are where we are through our own choices, that is Karma or reaping what we have sown.

"Time and unforeseen occurance," or circumstance, happens to us all and may be for better or worse and may be partly due to our choices at the time or completely out of the blue. We reach our goals depending on how we plan and how we respond to circumstance.

[blue rider]

or as the ladies said in my family,

what goes around comes around......

we are the sum of our actions, circumstances might help or hinder at the beginning, but eventually we are responsible for our actions.

what goes around comes around....

[James Deuce]

If karma is "real" then not only am I a despicable person, every person who believes in karma thinks the same of me.

If personal responsibility is the obverse of karma, then the same is true.

Life isn't black and white.

[Pussy]

Lie down with dogs, and you're sure to get fleas.

[Zedder]

If karma is "real" then not only am I a despicable person, every person who believes in karma thinks the same of me.

If personal responsibility is the obverse of karma, then the same is true.

Life isn't black and white.

Grammar Nazis' are despicable people though.

[Virago]

Grammar Nazis' are despicable people though.

Please remove that apostrophe. :pinch:

[Nasty]

If karma is "real" then not only am I a despicable person, every person who believes in karma thinks the same of me.

If personal responsibility is the obverse of karma, then the same is true.

Life isn't black and white.

You and me both James.

[Zedder]

Please remove that apostrophe. :pinch:

Well done that man!

[Edbear]

If karma is "real" then not only am I a despicable person, every person who believes in karma thinks the same of me.

If personal responsibility is the obverse of karma, then the same is true.

Life isn't black and white.

Can you elaborate on that a bit? We all suffer the ills and spills of life and also can be victims of circumstances undeserved.

[James Deuce]

Yes we can. My point is you can't attribute everything to a cosmic balance, nor can you blame people for not knowing the rules of a game they didn't know they were playing.

[Maha]

Karma is a word made up to give the desperate something to help ease their grip on reality.

[Nasty]

Karma is a word made up to give the desperate something to help ease their grip on reality.

Interesting concept .. but then lots of things are made up.

I don't believe that Karma is made up. I do believe that it is in fact real.

[Zedder]

Karma is a word made up to give the desperate something to help ease their grip on reality.

But Karma is just another way of describing cause and effect which is real.

[Kickaha]

Karma is a word made up to give the desperate something to help ease their grip on reality.
Just like God

[Edbear]

Yes we can. My point is you can't attribute everything to a cosmic balance, nor can you blame people for not know the rules of a game they didn't know they were playing.

I agree. I think it then becomes a question of our responses once aware of our options.

[Virago]

The concept of Karma has become rather muddled in modern society, due to over-use (or mis-use).

The principle of "cause and effect" in life choices is simply common sense, and can't really be argued with.

The more abstract interpretation of Karma, which involves the accumulation of mystical brownie-points for which you will be rewarded or punished at some future point, is simply mystical nonsense. Most religions are constructed around such twaddle.

[James Deuce]

I agree. I think it then becomes a question of our responses once aware of our options.

And if there are no options, then we don't help that person, or people, we just sit back and judge, based entirely on facts we have made up in our head to suit the situation we've created in our heads to apply to a circumstance we know nothing about.

[Edbear]

The concept of Karma has become rather muddled in modern society, due to over-use (or mis-use).

The principle of "cause and effect" in life choices is simply common sense, and can't really be argued with.

The more abstract interpretation of Karma, which involves the accumulation of mystical brownie-points for which you will be rewarded or punished at some future point, is simply mystical nonsense. Most religions are constructed around such twaddle.

Very common is the fact that due to people not understanding the meaning of words and phrases they misuse them altering the meaning. All these expressions, you reap what you sow, Karma, what goes around comes around, cause and effect, personal responsibility, etc. mean the same thing; that our choices and actions decide our future.

What is interesting is where and how circumstance comes into it and however it had to do with outcomes.

[Zedder]

The concept of Karma has become rather muddled in modern society, due to over-use (or mis-use).

The principle of "cause and effect" in life choices is simply common sense, and can't really be argued with.

The more abstract interpretation of Karma, which involves the accumulation of mystical brownie-points for which you will be rewarded or punished at some future point, is simply mystical nonsense. Most religions are constructed around such twaddle.

Yep, that's pretty much how I see it. However, if people want to embrace their version of Karma, or any belief system that works for them and doesn't cause destruction that's fine.

[Edbear]

And if there are no options, then we don't help that person, or people, we just sit back and judge, based entirely on facts we have made up in our head to suit the situation we've created in our heads to apply to a circumstance we know nothing about.

It often seems that way and KB is typical of this tendency. However it also shows often, the true spirit of humanity where so many are supportive both in word and deed of those suffering adversity.

[GingerMidget]

Our choices and actions directly affect what will happen in the future. Karma isn't something I really believe in personally, mostly because of times when people have said 'Don't worry, karma will get them" and it never does.

Life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it. Just to add another cliche.

[Skiwi]

Life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it. Just to add another cliche.

:yes: +1 what The TinyGinga ;) said

[Nasty]

Our choices and actions directly affect what will happen in the future. Karma isn't something I really believe in personally, mostly because of times when people have said 'Don't worry, karma will get them" and it never does.

Life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it. Just to add another cliche.

I believe that just cos we can't see it .. doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[GingerMidget]

This is entirely true Nasty.

[FJRider]

Our choices and actions directly affect what will happen in the future. Karma isn't something I really believe in personally, mostly because of times when people have said 'Don't worry, karma will get them" and it never does.

Life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it. Just to add another cliche.

What happens in life is life. Circumstance and coincidence. To explain it as a purpose or reason is pointless ... as it cannot be explained.

Those with beliefs otherwise ... are still free to believe.

[Big Dave]

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EqP3wT5lpa4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Virago]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JmcA9LIIXWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

. . .

[Berries]

Close enough?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nA5eyFa3ZvA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Depends on your accent.

[rainman]

Karma police reporting in...

Karma is a sanskrit word (with the equivalent being kamma in Pali, the language all the cool buddhist kids use). It means "action", but in the context of the religious interpretations of it it includes only those actions that involve intention or volition.

It is not the consequences of the actions - that's vipaka (kammavipaka). It is not punishment from some external agency (who?) for doing the "wrong" thing. It is not "getting your comeuppance", "justice served", or anything similar.

There's some debate about whether the results of karma are deterministic - in other words, that positive ("kusala" = skillful, wholesome, good, intelligent, right etc) karma always results in positive outcomes, and negative in negative. For easy cases, this is clear to see, but it falls over when "bad things happen to good people" or similar. Hardcore followers of the karma doctrine will say that this is the results of akusala ("bad") karma in a past life, and thus you get the whole rebirth debate. Me, I suspect that's just bullshit to make people feel better, and the universe is a bit more complex than the fairy tales we tell ourselves.

All things arise as a dependency on some cause or set of causes. We may not understand them all - think of the economy, or the workings of society; just too complex to get our heads around - so it's not always the case that something happens and you can draw a straight line to the cause. Therefore when stuff happens which we don't understand (and we get unexpected consequences) we can take two options: a) keep thinking until we do understand it better, and change our intentions and karma, or b) write it off as "shit happens". Depends on how much time you have available as to which makes sense...

The real action, though, is in how we react to the results of our karma or that of others.
I act poorly and cut my finger, I feel pain. I can then choose whether to go on some big internal narrative about how I'm a clumsy arsehole and always do stupid things, or how I'm a useless cook, or I can choose not to, and just deal with my finger.
Someone else does something we don't approve of, and get's some consequences, we can observe it, we can help them, or we can waste our time taking delight in the suffering of others. Schadenfreude is very human, but not very skillful.
Similarly if someone else's karma produces a cause in your life, revenge and aversion are all too typical. But neither are skillful (and yes, karma can be entirely mental - e.g. hating people for their misdeeds, even if you do nothing about it that they can detect).


happiness is knowing that karma cant really get you....
Karma is BS - you are who, what and where you are because of the options you chose.

That makes no sense. Karma is not a thing or a being that can "get to you". The second sentence makes more sense though - except it isn't only the options you chose. (And what is "you" anyway? Serious question. I could explain my theory of self - it's central to all of this stuff, actually - but it would take too long. One sentence version: there is no neatly partitioned and bounded thing that is a "self", we are all part of and dependent on the reality around us, including others).


Karma is originally a Hindu belief but it has been Westernised and means similarly to reaping what you sow either for good or bad. If we are where we are through our own choices, that is Karma or reaping what we have sown.

Sorta, karma is like a seed, goes the saying. So you can't grow a plum tree from a lemon seed - but until the causative conditions are right, perhaps the lemon tree won't germinate and grow into anything. Or maybe some little bug(ger) will come along and eat it. Get the picture? It's not that God will punish you for being bad, because (and I realise this is where we will part company, but I have to put it out there)... there is no god, no (absolute) good or bad, and actually, no you in the sense that we all conventionally mean it.


"If you want to understand the present look to your past actions. If you want to know about the future, look to your present actions."

[rainman]

What happens in life is life. Circumstance and coincidence. To explain it as a purpose or reason is pointless ... as it cannot be explained.


So there is no causality?

[Spyke]

karma, I did to many drugs and the effect was having a psychotic episode, i've recovered from it now but it taught me a great lesson. Or falling off my pushbike and tearing my acl taught me not to do stupid stuff on it.

My choice to do a truck driving course directly will effect my future by gaining me employment and giving me another skill I can use to benefit me and others.

[unstuck]

It,s all about the law of attraction.Everything in the universe is vibration and if you have a good vibe going on, you get good(for those of you that believe in good) and if you have a bad vibe(for those of you believe in bad) you get to have a real crappy time. Awareness and focus are the keys to attracting a life that is pleasing.:yes:

[FJRider]

So there is no causality?

Casuality ... ???

That is in the term of one action causing one reaction. The unpredictability of a number of actions(factors) at the same time, creating many possible reactions (results) depending what those actions (factors) were.

The end result ... the "I never thought that would happen" statement. Ever heard that said ... ???

[Virago]

Casuality ... ???

That is in the term of one action causing one reaction...

... whilst being really casual about it...:done:

[FJRider]

It,s all about the law of attraction.Everything in the universe is vibration and if you have a good vibe going on, you get good(for those of you that believe in good) and if you have a bad vibe(for those of you believe in bad) you get to have a real crappy time. Awareness and focus are the keys to attracting a life that is pleasing.:yes:

Hence honda's were created ... you meet the nicest people on a honda ... :innocent:

[rainman]

Casuality ... ???

That is in the term of one action causing one reaction.

Not at all. Things can, and usually do, arise from multiple causes. And sure, they are often hard to identify and understand.

Doesn't sound like a good reason to just give up and write it off as randomness, if you ask me, though.

[mashman]

"If you want to understand the present look to your past actions. If you want to know about the future, look to your present actions."

If you're present is "defined" by your past and your future is "defined" by your present, then your future will follow the same path as your past? I would have thought a better "measure" of your present would be where you are in regards to your future, and not your past. Or is it all in the interpretation :blink:

[GingerMidget]

What is the point to looking to your past? You can't do anything about it, so just move the heck on, and deal with what you have in the moment.

After all, which side of your head are the eyes?

[FJRider]

If you're present is "defined" by your past and your future is "defined" by your present, then your future will follow the same path as your past? I would have thought a better "measure" of your present would be where you are in regards to your future, and not your past. Or is it all in the interpretation :blink:

I was of the belief ... what is behind is not important (I ride a Yamaha)

I am confused now ... :confused: :blink: :facepalm:

[rainman]

If you're present is "defined" by your past and your future is "defined" by your present, then your future will follow the same path as your past? I would have thought a better "measure" of your present would be where you are in regards to your future, and not your past. Or is it all in the interpretation :blink:

What do you mean by "where you are in regards to your future, and not your past"?

Your present isn't directly, neatly, linearly defined by (only) your past, but past actions do contribute to the present and the future.

[mashman]

I was of the belief ... what is behind is not important (I ride a Yamaha)

:laugh:... it is if she's falls off :yes:

[FJRider]

:laugh:... it is if she's falls off :yes:

Well it would be ... to her ... <_<

[rainman]

What is the point to looking to your past? You can't do anything about it, so just move the heck on, and deal with what you have in the moment.

After all, which side of your head are the eyes?

Nowt to do with the eyes, more the mind. It's called learning. I find you can't do it without thinking about what you did before and whether it went well or not...

Not saying dwell on historical issues - after all, forgiveness is giving up all hope of having a better past - but understand it, and act accordingly.

[mashman]

What do you mean by "where you are in regards to your future, and not your past"?

Your present isn't directly, neatly, linearly defined by (only) your past, but past actions do contribute to the present and the future.

Our present is a single point in time that changes by the millisecond, so I would argue that our present is linear (unless we're gonna head doon the parallel universe road :)). What I mean is, if you're looking to your past actions to understand your present, then you are looking at the end of your "path" and not the beginning. We do things out of character all the way through our lives which by definition means that we do things contrary to our past actions and even though they have happened, they don't wholly explain how you got to your current position... we can change our minds irrespective of our past. That change of mind is the start of our future, as you said in the second part of you quote. Our past makes for interesting stories and not much else in my flawed book. Tis hard to explain and likely needs more thought than the lip service I pay to my existence

[mashman]

Well it would be ... to her ... <_<

ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... you're a real man and have the black eyes to prove it

[FJRider]

Nowt to do with the eyes, more the mind. It's called learning. I find you can't do it without thinking about what you did before and whether it went well or not...

Not saying dwell on historical issues - after all, forgiveness is giving up all hope of having a better past - but understand it, and act accordingly.

There is a famous quote (buggered if I can recall who) ... that the one thing man has learned from history ... is that he has NOT.

[Big Dave]

Kulture Klub Vid

. . .

I thought about posting it for a nanosecond, and decided I was far too classy to do it.

[mashman]

There is a famous quote (buggered if I can recall who) ... that the one thing man has learned from history ... is that he has NOT.

I kinda like Einstein's version: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

[FJRider]

I thought about posting it for a nanosecond, and decided I was far too classy to do it.

Funny you should say that ...

I thought about your post for a nanosecond too ... and decided you weren't ... :shifty:

[rainman]

Our present is a single point in time that changes by the millisecond, so I would argue that our present is linear (unless we're gonna head doon the parallel universe road :)). What I mean is, if you're looking to your past actions to understand your present, then you are looking at the end of your "path" and not the beginning. We do things out of character all the way through our lives which by definition means that we do things contrary to our past actions and even though they have happened, they don't wholly explain how you got to your current position... we can change our minds irrespective of our past. That change of mind is the start of our future, as you said in the second part of you quote. Our past makes for interesting stories and not much else in my flawed book. Tis hard to explain and likely needs more thought than the lip service I pay to my existence

Yup, time is a single flow in one direction, or at least that's what it feels like to us, same diffs. I mean the connection between past events and present consequences is not nice, neat, clinical, that kind of linear. It's a tree, not a line, or something.

I need to parse the rest of your response further and can't do that just yet as I had better go indulge in some productive karma or there may be some unpleasant consequences, knowwhaddamean. One observation, we learn by stories, and memory is the tool we use to soften the harsh reality of our history into a nice fairy tale (or horror story) that we can guide our future with. You are what you are because of what you and others have already done. You may become something else tomorrow, that's not my point.

[Big Dave]

Or it's all just a hippy way of evaluating cause and effect.

[Brett]

I don't really buy into the Karma thing. I believe that intelligent hard work, gritty determination and a refusal to give in are the biggest factors to success in ones life. That said, I do believe that a decent dose of good fortune (being in the right place at the right time etc.) does play a part in the success of many people. However, they are generally people who walk around with their eyes open and listen to people. They are also willing to take calculated risks in moving on an opportunity and don't get stuck in analysis paralysis.

I have known some very successful people (from business through to sports people and special ops soldiers) over the last few years, and hard work was a common denominator in 90% of the cases. I also know a few guys who have been very successful in business because they were ultimately very lucky in having an opportunity drop into their lap as opposed to working hard, but I doubt this is a recipe one can rely on...

One other factor is to enjoy what you do. It isn't hard to work like a devil when you love what you do, but it is painful if your pushing a wheel barrow of shit you don't believe in.

[rainman]

Or it's all just a hippy way of evaluating cause and effect.

Actually a bit subtler than that, but a good place to start, yes.


I don't really buy into the Karma thing. I believe that intelligent hard work, gritty determination and a refusal to give in are the biggest factors to success in ones life.

Generally yes, and those are all good. However the problem with all this rugged individualism is it doesn't match reality, where your actions (or karma, it's just a foreign work for "doing stuff" remember, not some cosmic payback system) have an impact not only on your life but on others, and their karma on yours. Sometimes quite a bit after the initial action. Easy really.

[mashman]

Yup, time is a single flow in one direction, or at least that's what it feels like to us, same diffs. I mean the connection between past events and present consequences is not nice, neat, clinical, that kind of linear. It's a tree, not a line, or something.

I need to parse the rest of your response further and can't do that just yet as I had better go indulge in some productive karma or there may be some unpleasant consequences, knowwhaddamean. One observation, we learn by stories, and memory is the tool we use to soften the harsh reality of our history into a nice fairy tale (or horror story) that we can guide our future with. You are what you are because of what you and others have already done. You may become something else tomorrow, that's not my point.

heh, to borrow a line from the 5th element: "Time not important. Only life important.". are you referring to my "wake"? or to the branches that I ignored along the way? this would be sooooo much easier in person eh :).

If your present is defined by your past actions and your present actions define your future, then your past being your present is also your future? Almost fatelistic. You are who you have been and therefore you are who you will be. End of path reached if you see what I mean. I do not believe we are our past, as people change due to their perceived future and not in response to their past events... not a thick and fast rule, but more so than a reaction to our past I would venture. Clearer than mud? :)

[rainman]

are you referring to my "wake"? or to the branches that I ignored along the way?

No, just saying the present (or the future, when it becomes the present) has many causes, and causes many things. It's a mesh. There are also many possible paths through the mess/h of life but I don't care much about multiple universes etc, only the path my actual experience takes me.


If your present is defined by your past actions and your present actions define your future, then your past being your present is also your future? Almost fatelistic. You are who you have been and therefore you are who you will be. End of path reached if you see what I mean. I do not believe we are our past, as people change due to their perceived future and not in response to their past events... not a thick and fast rule, but more so than a reaction to our past I would venture. Clearer than mud? :)

Well, actions (karma, remember) in your past can affect your present, and your future (and if you hang around a bit, your past). But karma/vipaka is not deterministic, least I don't think so. Sometimes shit does just happen, including good shit, of course. So, no to the fatalism - besides aren't you discounting the effects of future karma?

[rainman]

I am what I am, and where I am today, because of my actions...Karma had nothing to do with it.

I missed this one when I skimmed the thread earlier. Are you taking the piss (because if so, that's a bit Zen) or are you serious?

[avgas]

I believe you have to be crazy in this world to not kill yourself. Not completely insane - but just crazy enough to accept it as it is.

Anyone who thinks this is not the case should probably kill themselves now - because chances are buddy if your trying to change it, you are not likely to enjoy the result.

As for Karma - she is a cruel mistress. But like most women she is also not very observant. So people do slip through the cracks.

[mashman]

No, just saying the present (or the future, when it becomes the present) has many causes, and causes many things. It's a mesh. There are also many possible paths through the mess/h of life but I don't care much about multiple universes etc, only the path my actual experience takes me.

So you're looking at your past/present/future from an overview perspective and including what could/should have been and what actually came to pass? with an eye on your effect on others?



Well, actions (karma, remember) in your past can affect your present, and your future (and if you hang around a bit, your past). But karma/vipaka is not deterministic, least I don't think so. Sometimes shit does just happen, including good shit, of course. So, no to the fatalism - besides aren't you discounting the effects of future karma?

I understand that we can get bitten or vice versa in regards to our past etc... but that does not necessarily mean that that is who we are today. I'm with you on the shit happening thing and once upon a time not so long ago would have discounted future karma with a chortle and potentially a sarcastic comment in regards to captains of ships or some sort... these days my gaze is a little wider and it's everyone's future that concerns me and to a larger degree than my past, that's what defines/"drives" me.

Edity edit: In which case I do believe in karma, but don't "practice" it thoughtfully.

[rainman]

As for Karma - she is a cruel mistress. But like most women she is also not very observant. So people do slip through the cracks.

Wotcha on about, dude? Who is this cruel mistress? Some kind of cosmic being, maybe a goddess?

Karma is just the actions you take that are driven by an intention. They have consequences, that arise out of a complicated web of dependencies. There is no cosmic point system. There is no-one to administer anything like that. How would it work?

[Ocean1]

Wotcha on about, dude? Who is this cruel mistress? Some kind of cosmic being, maybe a goddess?

A solipsist.


How would it work?

Sometimes my subconscious, recalling an indiscretion against one of my imaginary constructs causes me to stub my toe, or fail to miss a gorse bush.

[Edbear]

This thread has brought up a wide range of opinion for sure!

My original question related to whether the place we are in now is mainly due to the result of choices we have made or of circumstance. Obviously it must be a combination of both but my interest was in how much of each contributed.

Plainly it is not an easy question to answer as the two are so intertwined as to be indistinguishable in isolation. Perhaps it is best to conclude they have equal responsibility for our present state.

So when we hear or speak of those who say, "It's not my fault because..." blaming circumstance for their situation how common is it really? All here seem to take responsibility for their situation or for how they respond to circumstances.

[mashman]

All here seem to take responsibility for their situation or for how they respond to circumstances.

Probably because there's nothing to lose.

[Edbear]

Probably because there's nothing to lose.

Possibly right. When we get clobbered by circumstance, be it illness, accident or some other misfortune, we have two choices; give up and wallow in our misery or pick ourselves up and make the best of things.

On KB we see for ourselves the amazing courage and fortitude of people who have fought their adversity and made the best they could of their lives even when given the worst prognosis.

I just watched an interview with Michael J. Fox who does not regret contracting Parkinson's disease due to the direction and purpose it has given him in his life. Replacing the false life of movie stardom with reality and resulting in a more rewarding life.

For myself, although I have a medical history filled with pain and suffering, of disability and near death, I believe I would not be the man I am today without going through those experiences. My accident in May 2010 was the best thing that could have happened in the way it changed my life despite the ongoing pain and disability I now live with.

They say, "That which does not kill us serves to make us stronger." and as we look around we see many examples of this.

[Big Dave]

Given the choice I'll take healthy and shallow.

[Edbear]

Given the choice I'll take healthy and shallow.

Ah, yeah, I have to agree there must be an easier way somehow... My wife pleaded with me to give her one year where I didn't try to kill myself. I said it would have to be next year as this year I have he small matter of an 8mm kidney stone to sort out and a test result showing some abnormal cells they need to resolve...

[Zedder]

A solipsist.



Sometimes my subconscious, recalling an indiscretion against one of my imaginary constructs causes me to stub my toe, or fail to miss a gorse bush.

I was wondering how far we would get before this philosophy came up.

[FJRider]

All here seem to take responsibility for their situation or for how they respond to circumstances.

All too often ... the decision choice and responsibility is not ours to make. A left turn at an intersection, instead of a right turn ... may mean we live ... or die.

[rainman]

I was wondering how far we would get before this philosophy came up.

Doesn't add that much value, though, to us in reality - does it?

It's more like intellectual wankery, in fact.

[Edbear]

All too often ... the decision choice and responsibility is not ours to make. A left turn at an intersection, instead of a right turn ... may mean we live ... or die.

A bit like "Sliding Doors" you mean?

[Ocean1]

Doesn't add that much value, though, to us in reality - does it?

It's more like intellectual wankery, in fact.

Of which the issue can get a little obnoxious at times.

[Zedder]

Doesn't add that much value, though, to us in reality - does it?

It's more like intellectual wankery, in fact.

That's why it's been called the bankrupt philosophy.

[blackdog]

We all suffer the ills and spills of life and also can be victims of circumstances undeserved.

Really? Feminine hygiene is aisle 7. I think your Prius is double parked.

[avgas]

Wotcha on about, dude? Who is this cruel mistress? Some kind of cosmic being, maybe a goddess?
She is the line between yin and yang
She is the surface of the water
She is the force behind the motive

Falun Gong/Bhudism..... have been around as long as Sanskrit also. So you might not want to take one version and say it is law. Fact of the matter is there are multiple version of Karma - not simply the 'action one' which originated from India.

Tomato Tomaeto - while in modern days we can give the same term to multiple meanings (thanks to English), so while the word "Karma" comes from India, the term seems to be applied to multiple versions. Either action, reaction or the balance of both.

This was typed on a personal computer, which is also a Laptop, which is also a Notebook. But technically speaking a notebook is a small book you write notes in with a pen.......you see where I am going with this.

[nodrog]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qp52PJ5JkkQ/TZ1NNJNmgvI/AAAAAAAAAbo/2AyHogUO1O0/s1600/karma-demotivational-poster-1254515310.jpg

[thecharmed01]

I believe that just cos we can't see it .. doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


I have to agree, I feel that to some degree there is a karma of sorts. And I think when bad things happen to good people, the cause of the bad will find that one day, something bad will happen to them.
When I see people treat others badly, I sit back and wait, because I figure karma will get them eventually and sometimes people who don't believe it, just haven't been patient enough or they aren't close enough to the person to know what's going on. So they don't see that persons 'bad stuff' so they will never know that in fact, they did get their butt kicked by karma.

I dunno if that made sense to anyone but me upon reading it back. Maybe I shouldn't post concussed LOL

[Edbear]

I have to agree, I feel that to some degree there is a karma of sorts. And I think when bad things happen to good people, the cause of the bad will find that one day, something bad will happen to them.
When I see people treat others badly, I sit back and wait, because I figure karma will get them eventually and sometimes people who don't believe it, just haven't been patient enough or they aren't close enough to the person to know what's going on. So they don't see that persons 'bad stuff' so they will never know that in fact, they did get their butt kicked by karma.

I dunno if that made sense to anyone but me upon reading it back. Maybe I shouldn't post concussed LOL

Yeah, I don't recommend concussion... :innocent:

[thecharmed01]

Yeah, I don't recommend concussion... :innocent:

me either.... it makes more sense in my head :facepalm:

[Paul in NZ]

Possibly right. When we get clobbered by circumstance, be it illness, accident or some other misfortune, we have two choices; give up and wallow in our misery or pick ourselves up and make the best of things.

Well to be fair we are genetically programmed to ,ake the best of things - its humanities evolutionary ace in the hole...


On KB we see for ourselves the amazing courage and fortitude of people who have fought their adversity and made the best they could of their lives even when given the worst prognosis.

I just watched an interview with Michael J. Fox who does not regret contracting Parkinson's disease due to the direction and purpose it has given him in his life. Replacing the false life of movie stardom with reality and resulting in a more rewarding life.

For myself, although I have a medical history filled with pain and suffering, of disability and near death, I believe I would not be the man I am today without going through those experiences. My accident in May 2010 was the best thing that could have happened in the way it changed my life despite the ongoing pain and disability I now live with.

They say, "That which does not kill us serves to make us stronger." and as we look around we see many examples of this.

Look I see what you are saying but the truth is that no one is actually offering people like Michael J Fox an actually choice - its a theoretical one. I can say (for instance) that I now have a much greater interest in my physical health and well being that I ever did before I started getting sick and I may well live longer than I would have when I was abusing my body (unrelated btw) But how do I know I wouldn't have changed just like any other 20 year old? If someone gave me a creditable choice to solve all my shitty issues I would jump at the chance. I hate all this shit with a passion.....

And getting back to the Karma concept. Do I deserve any of this? No - I don't think I do because (to the best of my knowledge) I've never been a bad or evil person... Do I feel I've been punished for something? No of course not.

Success is part effort, part knowledge and part luck and good luck in defining success of good fortune. It varies.

[Edbear]

Well to be fair we are genetically programmed to ,ake the best of things - its humanities evolutionary ace in the hole...



Look I see what you are saying but the truth is that no one is actually offering people like Michael J Fox an actually choice - its a theoretical one. I can say (for instance) that I now have a much greater interest in my physical health and well being that I ever did before I started getting sick and I may well live longer than I would have when I was abusing my body (unrelated btw) But how do I know I wouldn't have changed just like any other 20 year old? If someone gave me a creditable choice to solve all my shitty issues I would jump at the chance. I hate all this shit with a passion.....

And getting back to the Karma concept. Do I deserve any of this? No - I don't think I do because (to the best of my knowledge) I've never been a bad or evil person... Do I feel I've been punished for something? No of course not.

Success is part effort, part knowledge and part luck and good luck in defining success of good fortune. It varies.

You're right of course. Life happens and we cope with it if adverse and enjoy it if it goes well. I guess it depends a lot on whether we are the "Glass half full..." type; the positive personality or the negative.

[DMNTD]

Karma is a word made up to give the desperate something to help ease their grip on reality.

So is religion but that seemed to take off fairly well :confused: :laugh:

[avgas]

So is religion but that seemed to take off fairly well :confused: :laugh:
and pants.

When you think about it - Karma, Religion and Pants didn't used to exist.

[oneofsix]

and pants.

When you think about it - Karma, Religion and Pants didn't used to exist.

drop your pants and get a grip on reality, if you can find it. :innocent:

[DMNTD]

and pants.

When you think about it - Karma, Religion and Pants didn't used to exist.

Well, fark me Jesus! :wings:

[oneofsix]

Well, fark me Jesus! :wings:

drop your pants and he might

[rainman]

Falun Gong/Bhudism..... have been around as long as Sanskrit also. So you might not want to take one version and say it is law. Fact of the matter is there are multiple version of Karma - not simply the 'action one' which originated from India.

From Wikipedia: "Li Hongzhi introduced the Teachings of Falun Gong to the public in Changchun, China in 1992" vs "Classical Sanskrit is the standard register as laid out in the grammar of Pāṇini, around the 4th century BCE." So, yeah, not so much. The Falun Gong version of karma isn't too much different, as I understand things, they just use a different word for skillful karma ("de").
Never been too keen on Falun Gong tbh, Li Hongzhi seems like a bit of a johnny-come-lately to me, and there's a bit too much ritual prancing for my liking, but good luck to 'em. Beats being an investment banker, certainly.


She is the line between yin and yang
She is the surface of the water
She is the force behind the motive

You're right, it's impertinent of me to take one version of the truth as law. However I only ask that the ones I do consider make some form of sense. That's poetry (not necessarily very good), but what does it actually mean?


Tomato Tomaeto - while in modern days we can give the same term to multiple meanings (thanks to English), so while the word "Karma" comes from India, the term seems to be applied to multiple versions. Either action, reaction or the balance of both.

This was typed on a personal computer, which is also a Laptop, which is also a Notebook. But technically speaking a notebook is a small book you write notes in with a pen.......you see where I am going with this.

Meh, semantics, it's not as exciting as you think. Besides, where else other than our dumbed-down, miserly culture have people consistently held a coherent theory of karma as "getting one's comeuppance"? Taking delight in the misfortunes of others just plain ain't skillful, or even useful. Most people figure this out eventually... others need a bit more time. <_<