Search and Surveillance Bill

[SPman]

So, the S&S bill was passed into law last week
Well done NZ - another slab of the illusion of freedom down the gurgler and nary a hiccup from the media
10 reasons we should never have accepted the Search and Surveillance Bill.
1: These spying powers are not just for the police - they can be extended to 70 other Government agencies. Why the hell should the Pork Board, for example, be allowed to break into your home and plant spy cameras?

2: The so called safe guards for the other Government agencies is that to use these powers will require the signature of the Minister. Seeing as John Key signed off on the new BMW's 4 separate times and claimed he still had no idea what he had agreed to, a Minister's signature as a safe guard is as flimsy as an umbrella is at protecting you from tsunamis.

3: The ONLY submission received in support of these dizzying new powers was from the Police, EVERY OTHER SUBMISSION was against it. How can we formulate public policy as sensitive as the power to spy on one another when the only support is from the ones gaining these new powers?

4: NZers have lost their right to silence, the Police can force you to answer questions on mere suspicion of you committing a crime now.

5: NZers now have to hand over any information to the Police not if they prove you are guilty of anything, but based on suspicion and if you refuse to provide this information, you can be jailed for 12 months.

6: The Police no longer have to get a search warrant based on evidence to spy on you, they only have to get a surveillance device warrant which can be obtained by any officer of any of the 70 Government agencies who can now ask for it based on no evidence at all, just their 'suspicion' that you might be involved in a crime. This surveillance device warrant can be obtained from just a bloody JP.

7: The Police and 70 other state agencies won't even need a warrant of any kind once you are arrested if they think further evidence is at another address. So you could be arrested on suspicion, and your car, workplace, friends homes etc etc can be searched without any warrant.

8: The powers are sold as being used against 'organized crime' but the definition by the Police of 'organized crime' is 3 people who know each other.

9: Even if the agency doesn't find what they are looking for as outlined in their suspicions, any evidence they do find can still be used. This means the spying is pure fishing expedition, the 'suspicion' used to obtain the spying warrant doesn't even need to match what they find.

10: These NZ spying powers by every Government agency go well beyond anything in Europe, Canada, Australia or even the US.
This isn't a left wing or right wing issue, this is about freedom from an all pervasive state.
Well done chaps....carry on...:corn:

[Scuba_Steve]

Time to start building a Guerilla army me thinks :yes:

[Sable]

Does anyone else find it odd how it wasn't mentioned in mainstream media barely at all? I was at quite a few protests for this and frankly find it fucking disturbing. Goodbye democracy and 'freedom'.

[Paul in NZ]

Time to start building a Guerilla army me thinks :yes:

Don't do it in the Ureweras - thats what got us into this mess....

[mashman]

My question is: Where they say it can be extended to other government agencies, does it specifically state New Zealand agencies, or just agencies? Just askin like, coz that could be kind of important.

[Zedder]

Time to start building a Guerilla army me thinks :yes:

No no Scube, it's called "training for jobs in the security industry".

[Max Preload]

Yes, yet another entirely disgusting erosion of our individual rights and privacy open to abuse.

[Usarka]

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benny Franklin.

[Scuba_Steve]

Don't do it in the Ureweras - thats what got us into this mess....

Na I'll be right, I'm white :shutup::innocent:


No no Scube, it's called "training for jobs in the security industry".

Nice, might put you in charge of marketing then :laugh:

[ellipsis]

....they had hoped that this bill would just sail through unhindered and that a national paranoia about home grown terrorists would quell any vociferous anti mouthings that us 'conspiracy theorists' have....but it actually just slid through on greased rails because it seems our populace has taken an extra large dose of apathy pills...enough to kill a large horse or a small country...not much came of the national crime of the century either, really...apart from Tama Iti being likened to Nelson Mandela....hahahahahahahaha...

[oneofsix]

....they had hoped that this bill would just sail through unhindered and that a national paranoia about home grown terrorists would quell any vociferous anti mouthings that us 'conspiracy theorists' have....but it actually just slid through on greased rails because it seems our populace has taken an extra large dose of apathy pills...enough to kill a large horse or a small country...not much came of the national crime of the century either, really...apart from Tama Iti being likened to Nelson Mandela....hahahahahahahaha...

Apathy pills or ignorance. The media kept rather quite about it. But as a nation we are a pathetic bunch and any time someone suggests we should get a tad upset there are plenty to shout that they are over reactive and its all ok providing you just put your head back in the sand.

[MSTRS]

Good men have nothing to fear....yea right.

[Sable]

Heil Fuhrer Key

[FJRider]

Good men have nothing to fear....yea right.

Are there any left ... ???


I'm safe though ... I don't know 3 people ... :facepalm:

[SPman]

And just to add to the mess....


New Zealand has one of the highest rates of imprisonment in the world, and an international study has just highlighted the fact (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6632902/Politicians-cuffed-for-filling-jails):
A political bidding war between the main parties to prove who is tougher on crime has led to New Zealand having one of the world’s highest rates of imprisonment, an international study has found.
The comparative study of 11 countries’ justice systems found New Zealand’s is racist and punitive and imprisons people at a rate second only to the United States.

The United Kingdom Audit Office study looked at New Zealand, Australia, the US, France, Canada and the Netherlands among others.
It found New Zealand imprisoned offenders at a rate of 199 for every 100,000 of the population, second only to the US at 748. That is 25 per cent higher than England and Wales, and 33 per cent higher than Australia.
Between 2005 and 2008 New Zealand’s rate of imprisonment rose by 15 per cent despite the crime rate only rising by 4 per cent over the same period.



Now the agenda is clear - NZ wants to outdo the USA in imprisonment rates.........

:corn: :corn:

[Zedder]

And just to add to the mess....



Now the agenda is clear - NZ wants to outdo the USA in imprisonment rates.........

:corn: :corn:

There's probably a race on between the US and NZ to see how many feckin' stupid laws they can pass then.

[Scuba_Steve]

Does anyone else find it odd how it wasn't mentioned in mainstream media barely at all? I was at quite a few protests for this and frankly find it fucking disturbing. Goodbye democracy and 'freedom'.

:rofl: you thought we had democracy & freedom :killingme


There's probably a race on between the US and NZ to see how many feckin' stupid laws they can pass then.

Na this along with the food bill & skynet etc are just the initiation tests to become "New Zealand the 51st state of America"

[Zedder]

:rofl: you thought we had democracy & freedom :killingme



Na this along with the food bill & skynet etc are just the initiation tests to become "New Zealand the 51st state of America"

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was true.

[mossy1200]

Im thinking they would only record soft porn at my place.

[mashman]

And just to add to the mess...

Now the agenda is clear - NZ wants to outdo the USA in imprisonment rates.........

:corn: :corn:

They've got to justify them thar new prisons ya know... it's important that they are top quality facilities!

[Usarka]

They've got to justify them thar new prisons ya know... it's important that they are top quality facilities!

They are outsourcing the prisons to international companies. Maybe higher prisoner numbers is part of the deal.....

[mashman]

They are outsourcing the prisons to international companies. Maybe higher prisoner numbers is part of the deal.....

I dread to think of the deal. I seem to remember some rather nasty goings on in the US in regards to prisons extending sentences for no particular reason, think it was one of them thar Michael Moore doco's. As mentioned by someone else elsewhere in the elsesphere, the penalties will not outweigh the revenue.

[blue rider]

They are outsourcing the prisons to international companies. Maybe higher prisoner numbers is part of the deal.....

if you run prisons for profit you need inmates to keep them full and profitable

money for nothing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359154/Cash-kids-judge-took-1m-kickback-private-jail-builder-lock-children-up.html

[blue rider]

and

http://www.alec.org/

very interesting organization

[blue rider]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29109


http://mediafilter.org/mff/prison.html


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/private-prisons-buying-state-prisons_n_1272143.html


as the saying goes, someone got to do it

[davereid]

Yes. If you consider everything in context....

The Search and Surveillance Bill
The Food Bill - no selling food or seeds without a licence
NAIT - all livestock and their owners tracked from birth to slaughter
The proposals to end jury trials
The loss of the presumption of innocence
The loss of the right to remain sillent
The ability of the police to write search warrants themselves
The end of the requirement for a search warrant for most common searches
The end of financial privacy - all your transactions are now sent to baycorp, veda etc for evaluation and sale
If you are behind on fines you can't leave the country, and you will soon have your drivers licence canceled.

and you add in our new biometric ID card system with facial recognition built in right from the start...

Its all looking a bit grim.

I have attended select committee and made hundreds of submissions on these things, but I am often a lone voice. Only 3 people for example showed up to oppose the amendments to privacy laws that enable your bank, electricity company, etc etc to sell your personal expenditure details to baycorp and veda.

The NZTA opt out has been lost - NZTA never implemented it, and still sell your details (and your driver licence details as well) as no one bother opposing it.

NZers are sheep, and never complain. We just stand in the slaughterhouse queue bleating on KB about it.

[mashman]

money money money

NZers are sheep, and never complain. We just stand in the slaughterhouse queue bleating on KB about it.

but there's a really really good reason not to protest, or write submissions, or go to committee meetings, or raise your voice...



but I am often a lone voice. Only 3 people for example showed up to oppose the amendments to privacy laws


Unfortunately we don't spend our tax $$$ on organisations that have legal and "activist" departments with the sole purpose of protecting our freedoms etc... 24/7 from those who can profit from our existence... we have to rely on anyone that can be arsed turning up.

Thanks for turning up Dave :yes:...

[SPman]

NAIT - all livestock and their owners tracked from birth to slaughter Do the owners know about this.........:shit:

[davereid]

Do the owners know about this.........:shit:

Yes. They have to register themselves with NAIT, and then pay for the RF ID tags that they have to place on the animals. They also have to pay to update the NAIT records.

The NAIT man has powers that would make the Gestapo happy. He can force you to disclose passwords, provide answers to questions and produce information and documents. He may stop and search vehicles and people without warrant, search buildings without warrant, and for the few things he has to have a warrant for, (like searching maraes and private homes) he can do the search then apply for a warrant in arrears.

He not a policeman by the way, NAIT is a company set up by the government, and NAIT officers are employees of the company.

[SMOKEU]

This isn't a left wing or right wing issue, this is about freedom from an all pervasive state.
Well done chaps....carry on...:corn:

It's about the jews trying to take over the world.

[Zedder]

Yes. If you consider everything in context....

The Search and Surveillance Bill
The Food Bill - no selling food or seeds without a licence
NAIT - all livestock and their owners tracked from birth to slaughter
The proposals to end jury trials
The loss of the presumption of innocence
The loss of the right to remain sillent
The ability of the police to write search warrants themselves
The end of the requirement for a search warrant for most common searches
The end of financial privacy - all your transactions are now sent to baycorp, veda etc for evaluation and sale
If you are behind on fines you can't leave the country, and you will soon have your drivers licence canceled.

and you add in our new biometric ID card system with facial recognition built in right from the start...

Its all looking a bit grim.

I have attended select committee and made hundreds of submissions on these things, but I am often a lone voice. Only 3 people for example showed up to oppose the amendments to privacy laws that enable your bank, electricity company, etc etc to sell your personal expenditure details to baycorp and veda.

The NZTA opt out has been lost - NZTA never implemented it, and still sell your details (and your driver licence details as well) as no one bother opposing it.

NZers are sheep, and never complain. We just stand in the slaughterhouse queue bleating on KB about it.

That's a bit of a blanket statement regarding NZers being sheep etc Dave. How do you know people haven't made online submissions and emailed their MPS? Also, people have mentioned on here about protests they attended.

[pete376403]

Yes. If you consider everything in context....


and you add in our new biometric ID card system with facial recognition built in right from the start....

This might explain why NZ Post have spent a shitload of money installing cameras, computers and facial recognition software at post shops. Officially it is for passport photos, but the payback time for the whole setup if only for passports would be many years, if ever.
EOS Canon camera, motorised pole mounting for the camera, extra lights, motorized backdrop, a very nice printer, dedicated PC and some pretty flash software which connects back to a central database would not have come cheap.

[davereid]

This might explain why NZ Post have spent a shitload of money installing cameras, computers and facial recognition software at post shops. Officially it is for passport photos, but the payback time for the whole setup if only for passports would be many years, if ever.
EOS Canon camera, motorised pole mounting for the camera, extra lights, motorized backdrop, a very nice printer, dedicated PC and some pretty flash software which connects back to a central database would not have come cheap.

Yes

NZ Post are the contractors, who will be delivering the service. Its being put together by the D.I.A. Dept of Internal Affairs.

The electronic identity verification bill is the relevant legisation.

It will be voluntary unless you want to interact with government.

The DIAs website says "Future igovt services will look at making this information available for you to present to other government service providers when you need to. This may be your entitlement to benefits, or your rights to drive a car, for example."

So, by the back door it will be compulsory.

[F5 Dave]

And just to add to the mess....



Now the agenda is clear - NZ wants to outdo the USA in imprisonment rates.........

:corn: :corn:
Statistics. but imprisonment rates can mean several things. Having a small population can skew all sorts of statistics. If one had a ineffective Police force & toothless judicial system, you could have a low imprisonment rate. People could be so disillusioned they don't report 1/2 the crime as no one ever gets caught. Making any statistical analogy one has to make an analysis of the base data before commencing & deciding whether to proceed with that data.

Unless of course if your purpose is to prove a pre-decided point, or you are very stupid. I'm never sure with govt dept which way this leans, but I have for example heard of a Minister rejecting a govt depts findings & asking for new data that shows xxx. Yes Minister.

[MSTRS]

Unless of course if your purpose is to prove a pre-decided point, or you are very stupid. I'm never sure with govt dept which way this leans, but I have for example heard of a Minister rejecting a govt depts findings & asking for new data that shows xxx. Yes Minister.

Surely not? None of the paragons of truth and scrupulous ethics, sitting in the Beehive by virtue of the people putting them there, would do such a thing. Would they?

[oneofsix]

Aussie bans Huawei from NTN network, their equivalent of UFB.
However they are welcome in NZ to bid on the UFB network. http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/203040/govt-confirms-broadband-security-threats

NZ Minister will not give details on Huawei vetting

Mr Key said issues about Huawei had been raised and considered.

Communications and Information Technology Minister Amy Adams confirmed today that security threats had been raised in the process of doing the broadband contracts, but would not comment on which companies those related to, or what steps had been taken to ensure security.

NZ Search and Surveillance Bill passed.

Crown Fibre owns UFB.

Nah, I don't believe in conspiracies.

When does UFB reach Waihopai and Tangimoana?
<_< :shifty:

[SPman]

Statistics. but imprisonment rates can mean several thingsTrue. Statistics by themselves can mean many things. It's the way they trend that provides more meaning. I think the figures are NZ 198/100,000 population, USA 795/100,000 population., so, there's still a ways to go.....but, imprisonment rates are indicative of the state of a society, in regards to jobs, equality, social justice, poverty, corruption, etc, etc.......when the figures are trending up, you know you've got problems. Not reporting crime is also symptomatic of those problems - if you have so little faith in the police force and the legal system that you think it's all a waste of time reporting crime, that's a worry in itself....

[Usarka]

What if the cops suspect that the reason all you posters are against this bill is because you have something to hide?

[MSTRS]

Which party is against it? And can they be trusted to shitcan it if they get elected next time?

[oneofsix]

Which party is against it? And can they be trusted to shitcan it if they get elected next time?

:rofl: did you think about that before you posted? :Oops: Kb right. Trust a politician's promise :gob: You might be able to trust the Greens or Maoris to shit can it given the affect the 'raids' had on there voters.

[Usarka]

It did have a huge effect on their voters. Imagine sitting around stoned off your tree and all these cops turn up with guns. Bad trip man.

[Scuba_Steve]

What if the cops suspect that the reason all you posters are against this bill is because you have something to hide?

then they'll start surveilling us, looking for something & when all else fails they'll just plant something :shutup:

[MSTRS]

:rofl: did you think about that before you posted? :Oops: Kb right. Trust a politician's promise :gob: You might be able to trust the Greens or Maoris to shit can it given the affect the 'raids' had on there voters.

The lack of a sarcasm smilie is problematical for some...
But it would be nice to think that there are still *some* with the ethics and balls to kick this bill in the nads.

[oneofsix]

then they'll start surveilling us, looking for something & when all else fails they'll just plant something :shutup:

Nothing to worry about then, you are a dirty scumbag motorcyclist so you have to be up to no good and you most likely wont have a rego so that alone will give them the right to raid your place :yes: No change to the way it was then.

[oneofsix]

The lack of a sarcasm smilie is problematical for some...
But it would be nice to think that there are still *some* with the ethics and balls to kick this bill in the nads.

:yes: and :yes:

[oneofsix]

:soon: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6646910/Privacy-laws-to-be-overhauled
anyone think this will improve or erode personal privacy?


Justice Minister Judith Collins today announced the Government would repeal and re-enact the Privacy Act 1993 following a Law Commission report released last year, which made more than 100 recommendations.
<snip>
Collins said people were expecting more information to be available quickly and were more likely to share "private information''.
Sounds like they want to define less things as private. That should be your choice, not theirs.

[mashman]

It did have a huge effect on their voters. Imagine sitting around stoned off your tree and all these cops turn up with guns. Bad trip man.

Not at all, I have a feeling I'd roar with laughter, specially if they started with the righteous drugs iz bad mkay shit :yes:

[Mungatoke Mad]

No no Scube, it's called "training for jobs in the security industry".No It's called a traditional wananga a place of learning /about e class weapons/

[NordieBoy]

...apart from Tama Iti being likened to Nelson Mandela....hahahahahahahaha...

Nelson built bombs that killed whites. Tama is just a padawan.

[Zedder]

No It's called a traditional wananga a place of learning /about e class weapons/

Traditional wananga about E class (restricted Military Style Semi Automatics) of course, that makes sense.

[SPman]

NAIT - all livestock and their owners tracked from birth to slaughter Do the owners know about this.........http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/shock.gif

Yes...............
By what means are the owners slaughtered..............

[MSTRS]

Halal ....

[Zedder]

Rotating knives.

[Usarka]

I'm sure I'm on the survellance list after all the dodgy searches I've done for teh association thread.

[mashman]

I'm sure I'm on the survellance list after all the dodgy searches I've done for teh association thread.

Pretty sure my porn surfing will have set off a few alarm bells... not worried about associations, they're tame searches by comparison :innocent:

[The Singing Chef]

I'm sure I'm on the survellance list after all the dodgy searches I've done for teh association thread.

Yea with the weird amount of pictures in there, I could imagine how the search terms would go. :laugh: